active email address

My ative email address is ti… [at] airadvantage.net

We can't help you with your email address change or update. You have to log onto the Yahoo Groups web page and change it there. Good luck... Wilkie On Dec 31, 2009, at 8:42 AM, tinker11106 wrote: > My ative email address is ti… [at] airadvantage.net > > >

Gentlemen: I was looking through an old sailboat magazine and came across the attached article on Bill Lapworth to start off a new year of contributing Lapworth documents. I believe that there is another article out there with Fin Beven and Radiant in the Transpac. Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro, CA __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Boy was that an old photo ! I can remember going down to Point Fermin to watch the Transpac start and had heard the stories about how the rudder would never work. It was too small and not attached. Those were days when I was a medical student sailing a friend's Cal 25. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Dec 31, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > [Attachment(s) from Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) included below] > > Gentlemen: > I was looking through an old sailboat magazine and came across the > attached article on Bill Lapworth to start off a new year of > contributing Lapworth documents. I believe that there is another > article out there with Fin Beven and Radiant in the Transpac. > Mark > Cal 2-29 > San Pedro, CA > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > >

Mike, The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering oars. Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, they worked! Jerry --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 11:46 AM Boy was that an old photo ! I can remember going down to Point Fermin to watch the Transpac start and had heard the stories about how the rudder would never work. It was too small and not attached. Those were days when I was a medical student sailing a friend's Cal 25. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Dec 31, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > [Attachment(s) from Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) included below] > > Gentlemen: > I was looking through an old sailboat magazine and came across the > attached article on Bill Lapworth to start off a new year of > contributing Lapworth documents. I believe that there is another > article out there with Fin Beven and Radiant in the Transpac. > Mark > Cal 2-29 > San Pedro, CA > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Mike, > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering oars. > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, they > worked! > Jerry The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle and gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common use until much later. The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a rudder. I remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows what they looked like. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

We fell off a big wave in the Farrallones race in 78 or 79. It was a very windy race and we kinked the rudder shaft. It was hard to steer and we reduced sail and finished. Bill Lee went to fiberglas shafts after this and we had no more problems. I sailed in the 88 Pacific cup doublehanded with the replaced F/G shaft rudder. Spade rudders are vulnerable but like Democracy they are the best we can have. I thought a partial skegged rudder was the better choice till I sailed to Oahu and back to Santa Barbara. It is the poorest choice or maybe Doug Peterson just missed on the Kelley- Peterson 44. Down wind it was like steering a 2 1/5 ton truck with a flat right front tire I sailed a keel hung rudder for 17 years and I will not go to sea again in such a configuration unless there is a danm good reason to! Happy New year to all! As always, My Best, Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote Hull 61 From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 3:32:42 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Mike, > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering oars. > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, they > worked! > Jerry The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle and gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common use until much later. The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a rudder. I remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows what they looked like. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

The Choate 40 had a huge high aspect rudder and we never had a bit of trouble in a windy year. I greased the shaft every three days or so. It had grease nipples. I think the fleet lost five or six rudders that year. It was much bigger than the Cal 40 rudder and higher aspect but the rig was much bigger. Now this is a big rudder That's the poor old girl hoping for a buyer a few years ago and almost 20 years after I sold her. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:54 PM, mike farrell wrote: > > We fell off a big wave in the Farrallones race in 78 or 79. It > was a very windy race and we kinked the rudder shaft. It was hard to > steer and we reduced sail and finished. Bill Lee went to > fiberglas shafts after this and we had no more problems. I sailed in > the 88 Pacific cup doublehanded with the replaced F/G shaft rudder. > Spade rudders are vulnerable but like Democracy they are the best we > can have. I thought a partial skegged rudder was the better choice > till I sailed to Oahu and back to Santa Barbara. It is the poorest > choice or maybe Doug Peterson just missed on the Kelley- Peterson > 44. Down wind it was like steering a 2 1/5 ton truck with a flat > right front tire I sailed a keel hung rudder for 17 years and I > will not go to sea again in such a configuration unless there is a > danm good reason to! > Happy New year to all! > As > always, My Best, > Mike > Farrell Cal 20 Coyote Hull 61 > > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 3:32:42 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > > Mike, > > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering oars. > > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, they > > worked! > > Jerry > > The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the > 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle and > gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common > use until much later. > > The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk > about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a rudder. I > remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just > vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows > what they looked like.. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

"I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows what they looked like." To really stretch a pun, might the Syracuse Quinqueremes not be a college basketball team from New York? Hangover Bowl racing today in Annapolis. Happy 2010 Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kennedy Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:33 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Mike, > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering oars. > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, they > worked! > Jerry The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle and gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common use until much later. The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a rudder. I remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows what they looked like. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

I notice that the Cal-40 rudder is not pivoted at the end but slightly toward the center from the end. That turns out to be an important aerodynamic feature for control fins. From looking at blueprints of the two boats, it looks like the Choate 40 has the pivot for the rudder on the edge. Lapworth was very wise to make the rudder the way he did as this is a subtle point that gets by even missile designers until they try and figure out why their missiles fall apart in flight. Perhaps this is why the Choate 40 fleet lost so many rudders. Just another example of the quality of Lapworth's designs. Allen On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > [Attachment(s) <#125e74e1951e573c_TopText> from Michael Kennedy included > below] > > The Choate 40 had a huge high aspect rudder and we never had a bit of > trouble in a windy year. I greased the shaft every three days or so. > It had grease nipples. I think the fleet lost five or six rudders that > year. It was much bigger than the Cal 40 rudder and higher aspect but > the rig was much bigger. > > Now this is a big rudder > > > > > > > That's the poor old girl hoping for a buyer a few years ago and almost 20 > years after I sold her. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:54 PM, mike farrell wrote: > > >> We fell off a big wave in the Farrallones race in 78 or 79. It was a >> very windy race and we kinked the rudder shaft. It was hard to steer and we >> reduced sail and finished. Bill Lee went to fiberglas shafts after this >> and we had no more problems. I sailed in the 88 Pacific cup doublehanded >> with the replaced F/G shaft rudder. Spade rudders are vulnerable but like >> Democracy they are the best we can have. I thought a partial skegged >> rudder was the better choice till I sailed to Oahu and back to Santa >> Barbara. It is the poorest choice or maybe Doug Peterson just missed on the >> Kelley- Peterson 44. Down wind it was like steering a 2 1/5 ton truck with >> a flat right front tire I sailed a keel hung rudder for 17 years and I will >> not go to sea again in such a configuration unless there is a danm good >> reason to! >> Happy New year to all! >> As always, My >> Best, >> >> Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote Hull 61 >> >> From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 3:32:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth >> >> >> On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: >> >> > >> > Mike, >> > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering oars. >> > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, they >> > worked! >> > Jerry >> >> The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the >> 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle and >> gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common >> use until much later. >> >> The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk >> about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a rudder. I >> remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just >> vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows >> what they looked like.. >> >> Mike Kennedy >> Conquest Cal 40 # 96 >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> > >

I don't think the Choate 40s lost any rudders. Rodeo Drive lost a backstay fitting and dropped out but the rudders I referred to were all on other boats. One was a maxi named Drifter that found the rudder was binding on the hull when the boat got going fast, suggesting too much play in the post. A couple were in bigger boats than mine but I didn't mean to imply that any Choate 40s lost rudders. The Transpac is well known for rudder and rig problems. The design feature you are describing is a "balanced rudder" in which the rudder post is closer to the center of the foil. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Jan 1, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > I notice that the Cal-40 rudder is not pivoted at the end but > slightly toward the center from the end. That turns out to be an > important aerodynamic feature for control fins. From looking at > blueprints of the two boats, it looks like the Choate 40 has the > pivot for the rudder on the edge. Lapworth was very wise to make > the rudder the way he did as this is a subtle point that gets by > even missile designers until they try and figure out why their > missiles fall apart in flight. Perhaps this is why the Choate 40 > fleet lost so many rudders. Just another example of the quality of > Lapworth's designs. > > > Allen > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Michael Kennedy > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > [Attachment(s) from Michael Kennedy included below] > The Choate 40 had a huge high aspect rudder and we never had a bit of > trouble in a windy year. I greased the shaft every three days or so. > It had grease nipples. I think the fleet lost five or six rudders that > year. It was much bigger than the Cal 40 rudder and higher aspect but > the rig was much bigger. > > Now this is a big rudder > > > > > > > That's the poor old girl hoping for a buyer a few years ago and > almost 20 years after I sold her. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:54 PM, mike farrell wrote: > > > We fell off a big wave in the Farrallones race in 78 or 79. It > was a very windy race and we kinked the rudder shaft. It was hard to > steer and we reduced sail and finished. Bill Lee went to > fiberglas shafts after this and we had no more problems. I sailed in > the 88 Pacific cup doublehanded with the replaced F/G shaft rudder. > Spade rudders are vulnerable but like Democracy they are the best we > can have. I thought a partial skegged rudder was the better choice > till I sailed to Oahu and back to Santa Barbara. It is the poorest > choice or maybe Doug Peterson just missed on the Kelley- Peterson > 44. Down wind it was like steering a 2 1/5 ton truck with a flat > right front tire I sailed a keel hung rudder for 17 years and I > will not go to sea again in such a configuration unless there is a > danm good reason to! > Happy New year to all! > As > always, My Best, > Mike > Farrell Cal 20 Coyote Hull 61 > > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 3:32:42 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > > Mike, > > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering oars. > > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, they > > worked! > > Jerry > > The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the > 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle and > gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common > use until much later. > > The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk > about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a rudder. I > remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just > vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows > what they looked like.. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

Sorry, I misunderstood. I don't know the proportions but in rockets you want the pivot just back from the leading edge, maybe 10%. If you have the pivot at the leading edge, the foil falls apart. Lapworth had it just right. I wasn't sure about the blueprint of the Choate 40 so I probably had it wrong. http://pages.sssnet.com/go2erie/cal40a02.jpg Allen <http://pages.sssnet.com/go2erie/cal40a02.jpg> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > I don't think the Choate 40s lost any rudders. Rodeo Drive lost a > backstay fitting and dropped out but the rudders I referred to were > all on other boats. One was a maxi named Drifter that found the rudder > was binding on the hull when the boat got going fast, suggesting too > much play in the post. A couple were in bigger boats than mine but I > didn't mean to imply that any Choate 40s lost rudders. The Transpac is > well known for rudder and rig problems. > > The design feature you are describing is a "balanced rudder" in which > the rudder post is closer to the center of the foil. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > On Jan 1, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > I notice that the Cal-40 rudder is not pivoted at the end but > > slightly toward the center from the end. That turns out to be an > > important aerodynamic feature for control fins. From looking at > > blueprints of the two boats, it looks like the Choate 40 has the > > pivot for the rudder on the edge. Lapworth was very wise to make > > the rudder the way he did as this is a subtle point that gets by > > even missile designers until they try and figure out why their > > missiles fall apart in flight. Perhaps this is why the Choate 40 > > fleet lost so many rudders. Just another example of the quality of > > Lapworth's designs. > > > > > > Allen > > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Michael Kennedy > > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > > [Attachment(s) from Michael Kennedy included below] > > The Choate 40 had a huge high aspect rudder and we never had a bit of > > trouble in a windy year. I greased the shaft every three days or so. > > It had grease nipples. I think the fleet lost five or six rudders that > > year. It was much bigger than the Cal 40 rudder and higher aspect but > > the rig was much bigger. > > > > Now this is a big rudder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the poor old girl hoping for a buyer a few years ago and > > almost 20 years after I sold her. > > > > Mike Kennedy > > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:54 PM, mike farrell wrote: > > > > > > We fell off a big wave in the Farrallones race in 78 or 79. It > > was a very windy race and we kinked the rudder shaft. It was hard to > > steer and we reduced sail and finished. Bill Lee went to > > fiberglas shafts after this and we had no more problems. I sailed in > > the 88 Pacific cup doublehanded with the replaced F/G shaft rudder. > > Spade rudders are vulnerable but like Democracy they are the best we > > can have. I thought a partial skegged rudder was the better choice > > till I sailed to Oahu and back to Santa Barbara. It is the poorest > > choice or maybe Doug Peterson just missed on the Kelley- Peterson > > 44. Down wind it was like steering a 2 1/5 ton truck with a flat > > right front tire I sailed a keel hung rudder for 17 years and I > > will not go to sea again in such a configuration unless there is a > > danm good reason to! > > Happy New year to all! > > As > > always, My Best, > > > Mike > > Farrell Cal 20 Coyote Hull 61 > > > > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 3:32:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering oars. > > > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, they > > > worked! > > > Jerry > > > > The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the > > 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle and > > gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common > > use until much later. > > > > The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk > > about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a rudder. I > > remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just > > vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows > > what they looked like.. > > > > Mike Kennedy > > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Makes you proud to own a Lapworth!........Allen, what's the number of your L-36 Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Olympia, WA --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth [1 Attachment] To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 11:04 AM [Attachment(s) from Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) included below] Gentlemen: I was looking through an old sailboat magazine and came across the attached article on Bill Lapworth to start off a new year of contributing Lapworth documents. I believe that there is another article out there with Fin Beven and Radiant in the Transpac. Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro, CA __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com

Papoose is hull #5 Allen On 1/1/10, Bob Connell <jo… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > Makes you proud to own a Lapworth!........Allen, what's the number of your > L-36 > > Bob Connell > "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 > Olympia, WA > > --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) > <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth [1 Attachment] > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 11:04 AM > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) included below] > > Gentlemen: > I was looking through an old sailboat magazine and came across the attached > article on Bill Lapworth to start off a new year of contributing Lapworth > documents. I believe that there is another article out there with Fin Beven > and Radiant in the Transpac. > Mark > Cal 2-29 > San Pedro, CA > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4732 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset. com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4732 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset. com > > > > > > > > >

Well the Choate 40 rudder had an articulation with the bustle so the post was probably close to the leading edge. The Cal 40 rudder is balanced with, as you say, a leading edge that contributes some load on the other side of the major part of the foil. This reduces the angular rotational load on the post and its anchors in the foil. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Jan 1, 2010, at 5:14 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: > Sorry, I misunderstood. I don't know the proportions but in rockets > you want the pivot just back from the leading edge, maybe 10%. If > you have the pivot at the leading edge, the foil falls apart. > Lapworth had it just right. I wasn't sure about the blueprint of > the Choate 40 so I probably had it wrong. > > http://pages.sssnet.com/go2erie/cal40a02.jpg > > > Allen > > > > > On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Michael Kennedy > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > I don't think the Choate 40s lost any rudders. Rodeo Drive lost a > backstay fitting and dropped out but the rudders I referred to were > all on other boats. One was a maxi named Drifter that found the rudder > was binding on the hull when the boat got going fast, suggesting too > much play in the post. A couple were in bigger boats than mine but I > didn't mean to imply that any Choate 40s lost rudders. The Transpac is > well known for rudder and rig problems. > > The design feature you are describing is a "balanced rudder" in which > the rudder post is closer to the center of the foil. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > On Jan 1, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > I notice that the Cal-40 rudder is not pivoted at the end but > > slightly toward the center from the end. That turns out to be an > > important aerodynamic feature for control fins. From looking at > > blueprints of the two boats, it looks like the Choate 40 has the > > pivot for the rudder on the edge. Lapworth was very wise to make > > the rudder the way he did as this is a subtle point that gets by > > even missile designers until they try and figure out why their > > missiles fall apart in flight. Perhaps this is why the Choate 40 > > fleet lost so many rudders. Just another example of the quality of > > Lapworth's designs. > > > > > > Allen > > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Michael Kennedy > > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > > [Attachment(s) from Michael Kennedy included below] > > The Choate 40 had a huge high aspect rudder and we never had a bit > of > > trouble in a windy year. I greased the shaft every three days or so. > > It had grease nipples. I think the fleet lost five or six rudders > that > > year. It was much bigger than the Cal 40 rudder and higher aspect > but > > the rig was much bigger. > > > > Now this is a big rudder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the poor old girl hoping for a buyer a few years ago and > > almost 20 years after I sold her. > > > > Mike Kennedy > > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:54 PM, mike farrell wrote: > > > > > > We fell off a big wave in the Farrallones race in 78 or 79. It > > was a very windy race and we kinked the rudder shaft. It was hard to > > steer and we reduced sail and finished. Bill Lee went to > > fiberglas shafts after this and we had no more problems. I sailed in > > the 88 Pacific cup doublehanded with the replaced F/G shaft rudder. > > Spade rudders are vulnerable but like Democracy they are the best we > > can have. I thought a partial skegged rudder was the better choice > > till I sailed to Oahu and back to Santa Barbara. It is the poorest > > choice or maybe Doug Peterson just missed on the Kelley- Peterson > > 44. Down wind it was like steering a 2 1/5 ton truck with a flat > > right front tire I sailed a keel hung rudder for 17 years and I > > will not go to sea again in such a configuration unless there is a > > danm good reason to! > > Happy New year to all! > > As > > always, My Best, > > > Mike > > Farrell Cal 20 Coyote Hull 61 > > > > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 3:32:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering > oars. > > > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, > they > > > worked! > > > Jerry > > > > The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the > > 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle > and > > gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common > > use until much later. > > > > The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk > > about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a > rudder. I > > remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just > > vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows > > what they looked like.. > > > > Mike Kennedy > > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Well, it was more than load, it had to do with setting up vibrations that would rip the foil apart. Perhaps it isn't an issue for a boat but I thought as water is so much denser than air it might be a concern. It is just something my Uncle (the rocket scientist) once told me. Anyway, Happy New Year everyone. Also, I added the 2006 Bill Lapworth pdf to the L-36.com web site. Allen On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > Well the Choate 40 rudder had an articulation with the bustle so the > post was probably close to the leading edge. The Cal 40 rudder is > balanced with, as you say, a leading edge that contributes some load > on the other side of the major part of the foil. This reduces the > angular rotational load on the post and its anchors in the foil. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > On Jan 1, 2010, at 5:14 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > Sorry, I misunderstood. I don't know the proportions but in rockets > > you want the pivot just back from the leading edge, maybe 10%. If > > you have the pivot at the leading edge, the foil falls apart. > > Lapworth had it just right. I wasn't sure about the blueprint of > > the Choate 40 so I probably had it wrong. > > > > http://pages.sssnet.com/go2erie/cal40a02.jpg > > > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Michael Kennedy > > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > I don't think the Choate 40s lost any rudders. Rodeo Drive lost a > > backstay fitting and dropped out but the rudders I referred to were > > all on other boats. One was a maxi named Drifter that found the rudder > > was binding on the hull when the boat got going fast, suggesting too > > much play in the post. A couple were in bigger boats than mine but I > > didn't mean to imply that any Choate 40s lost rudders. The Transpac is > > well known for rudder and rig problems. > > > > The design feature you are describing is a "balanced rudder" in which > > the rudder post is closer to the center of the foil. > > > > Mike Kennedy > > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > On Jan 1, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > > > I notice that the Cal-40 rudder is not pivoted at the end but > > > slightly toward the center from the end. That turns out to be an > > > important aerodynamic feature for control fins. From looking at > > > blueprints of the two boats, it looks like the Choate 40 has the > > > pivot for the rudder on the edge. Lapworth was very wise to make > > > the rudder the way he did as this is a subtle point that gets by > > > even missile designers until they try and figure out why their > > > missiles fall apart in flight. Perhaps this is why the Choate 40 > > > fleet lost so many rudders. Just another example of the quality of > > > Lapworth's designs. > > > > > > > > > Allen > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Michael Kennedy > > > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Michael Kennedy included below] > > > The Choate 40 had a huge high aspect rudder and we never had a bit > > of > > > trouble in a windy year. I greased the shaft every three days or so. > > > It had grease nipples. I think the fleet lost five or six rudders > > that > > > year. It was much bigger than the Cal 40 rudder and higher aspect > > but > > > the rig was much bigger. > > > > > > Now this is a big rudder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the poor old girl hoping for a buyer a few years ago and > > > almost 20 years after I sold her. > > > > > > Mike Kennedy > > > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:54 PM, mike farrell wrote: > > > > > > > > > We fell off a big wave in the Farrallones race in 78 or 79. It > > > was a very windy race and we kinked the rudder shaft. It was hard to > > > steer and we reduced sail and finished. Bill Lee went to > > > fiberglas shafts after this and we had no more problems. I sailed in > > > the 88 Pacific cup doublehanded with the replaced F/G shaft rudder. > > > Spade rudders are vulnerable but like Democracy they are the best we > > > can have. I thought a partial skegged rudder was the better choice > > > till I sailed to Oahu and back to Santa Barbara. It is the poorest > > > choice or maybe Doug Peterson just missed on the Kelley- Peterson > > > 44. Down wind it was like steering a 2 1/5 ton truck with a flat > > > right front tire I sailed a keel hung rudder for 17 years and I > > > will not go to sea again in such a configuration unless there is a > > > danm good reason to! > > > Happy New year to all! > > > As > > > always, My Best, > > > > > > Mike > > > Farrell Cal 20 Coyote Hull 61 > > > > > > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 3:32:42 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth > > > > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > The biremes and triremes of the Ancient warships had steering > > oars. > > > > Too small, for sure, and not attached to the keel, but somehow, > > they > > > > worked! > > > > Jerry > > > > > > The rudder was invented by the Chinese and English warships of the > > > 16th century were steered by steering oars. Wikipedia says pintle > > and > > > gudgeon rudders were invented about 1200 but they were not in common > > > use until much later. > > > > > > The Cal 40 rudder was the talk of ocean racing and there was talk > > > about whether they should allowed to go that far with such a > > rudder. I > > > remember it. I don't remember the triremes, though. Or maybe just > > > vaguely. I might add that Syracuse had quinqueremes but nobody knows > > > what they looked like.. > > > > > > Mike Kennedy > > > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Are you seriouse about the race. Currently riding out a doozy of a windstorm up here in Rock Hall 15 steady gusting to 25-30 and NOAA is reporting small craft warings on the entire bay. You lot are a hardy bunch and crazy in the best manner possible. Every success. Will definitely be back in Annapolos by car in the next few days. Far to many deals that cannot be missed as Bacon;s. The dingy guys were awsome and save me over 400 buck by showing me how to do the job myself. What an amazing little town. Definitely worth a revisit. Best of luck /ch

Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) > included below] > > Gentlemen: > I was looking through an old sailboat magazine and came across the > attached article on Bill Lapworth to start off a new year of > contributing Lapworth documents. I believe that there is another > article out there with Fin Beven and Radiant in the Transpac. I've been remembering Bill Lapworth over the holidays as I've read William Atkin's entertaining memoir, /Of Yachts and Men./ He designed a lot of boats and built, or worked on the building of, quite a few that he also sailed. So he had hands-on experience with hull forms, rigs, and accommodations below. Atkin's design orientation was toward heavy displacement, lifeboat-form hulls. His "Eric" is the direct ancestor of the Westsail 32. It's a much different way to approach boats than Mr. Lapworth's, and of course that led to controversy when the Lapworth hulls set out to race. Mr. Atkin was designing cruising hulls, and ones that could be handled by a couple people and perhaps a kid, and that could handle some rough weather in comfort. His goal was not making it to the finish line in the best time. I suspect that in bad conditions, one of his boats would be more comfortable hove-to than a Lapworth hull. But the Lapworth hull might have made it back to port before things got hairy, and its crew would be comfortable in the harbor. I'm not sure that we're really required to take sides in this old dispute, except that most of us have personalities that align us with one view or the other. One thing we can give Atkin credit for, and that is for making boats that look like they were designed to go to sea, and not for masquerading as floating weekend condos. And even though I giggle whenever I see that "Sleeps Four!!" ad for the Cal 20, it must be said that our Cals really put sailing first, not excesses of style or volume below. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220, Martha C

Chris, Saw your photo of your "other" boat in GOB. Beautiful! Do you have more photos? Mike Robinson To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cl… [at] charterinternet.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:47:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/

I think there's a short article in the current Messing About in Boats, as well. I don't think that's accessible on line, but if you know anyone who gets it, they could save a copy for you. I'd offer you mine, but it's already promised elsewhere, Chris. Jon Myers (former) Cal 29 ballast From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:56 PM To: Cal boats List Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Remembering beautiful boat (Chris) Chris, Saw your photo of your "other" boat in GOB. Beautiful! Do you have more photos? Mike Robinson To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cl… [at] charterinternet.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:47:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Remembering Bill Lapworth Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/> ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. **************************************************