wear your PFD

Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of-the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams, Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

I heard that 90% of people who drown have their flys down. Around here, almost nobody drowns off a sailboat, they were almost always in smaller pleasure fishing boats. Allen On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > > A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds > complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected > a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their > complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for > the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am > sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. > > I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. > > Regards, > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD > > > > Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes > are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial > opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > > > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > > who follow the calling. > > > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) > > In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's > fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional > seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do > it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for > a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." > > Chris Campbell > > > >

Allen Edwards wrote: > > > I heard that 90% of people who drown have their flys down. Around > here, almost nobody drowns off a sailboat, they were almost always in > smaller pleasure fishing boats. Another of my hobbies is audio and radios, and on an FM tuners group, somebody was lamenting the very poor engineering that is seen in cost-driven consumer electronics--things that are under-engineered to create a low price, and that then fails early and can't easily be fixed. I replied that it's the Wal-Mart effect: people come to expect that a DVD player should cost $40 and be basically disposable. But I also noted that in sailing, most products are well engineered and durable because our lives often depend on them in stressful circumstances. There are certainly exceptions, and the occasional poorly-made product, but most of the things we use and buy are stout and durable. Look at our lines, shackles, cleats, anchors, compasses, winches, blocks, VHF-FM radios, engines, and all the stuff we depend on. A lot of them last a very long time. My other boat's 1961 main halyard is just getting replaced this year. The power boat crowd are sold a lot of flimsy merchandise, by comparison. It's probably because there's a higher proportion of unsophisticated buyers among power boaters, especially in the small runabout field. But we sailors should fight complacency. Check your rigging, examine the cotter pins, be vigilant so you don't end up in the news or obituaries. Chris Campbell >

So when you state "flys down" are you refering to one hanging it over the side? Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Edwards To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD I heard that 90% of people who drown have their flys down. Around here, almost nobody drowns off a sailboat, they were almost always in smaller pleasure fishing boats. Allen On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Ocean racing is like standing in a shower and trying to light your cigar with $100 bills. Journing by sail is like travelling 3rd. class on a Polish train(with forgivness from anybody Polish) God bless this mess, Mike Farrell Coyote Cal 20 # 61 From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

By the way Wayne your pfd will only prolong your suffering if you fuc- up annd go overboard, A harness and a way to get back on bourd make a hell of a lot more sense to me , Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 ps. I have done both! From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

Mike, Couldn't agree more. The key to longevity in this sport is to stay on the boat! Regards, Wayne From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 4:00:45 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD By the way Wayne your pfd will only prolong your suffering if you fuc- up annd go overboard, A harness and a way to get back on bourd make a hell of a lot more sense to me , Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 ps. I have done both! From: Wayne Gillikin <waynegillikin@ yahoo.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

God bless you lad!!, m From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 1:04:20 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Mike, Couldn't agree more. The key to longevity in this sport is to stay on the boat! Regards, Wayne From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 4:00:45 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD By the way Wayne your pfd will only prolong your suffering if you fuc- up annd go overboard, A harness and a way to get back on bourd make a hell of a lot more sense to me , Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 ps. I have done both! From: Wayne Gillikin <waynegillikin@ yahoo.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

Mike, my mother (88 now) was born in Poland, my father and I in Czechoslovakia as natives. Long story over a beer. I once asked my mother what she thought of Polack jokes. She said they didn't bother her. She said half of them are probably true or else all of them are half true. More stories she can tell. I wish more people could laugh at themselves. I've never been on a Polish train (that I know of - maybe as a baby), but I have been offshore sailing under testy conditions. However Polish trains are, it's probably half true. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:57 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Ocean racing is like standing in a shower and trying to light your cigar with $100 bills. Journing by sail is like travelling 3rd. class on a Polish train(with forgivness from anybody Polish) God bless this mess, Mike Farrell Coyote Cal 20 # 61 From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

A tether (harness) is a good thing, but it can also provide the capability to get beat to death on the side of the hull. At least the body can get a decent burial. You bet I use one offshore and sometimes in the Bay at night. Make sure your tether has clips at both ends. Old ones tie to the person and clip to the boat. There are stories of people going down with the ship because they could not get to the clip, and couldn't untie themselves. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD By the way Wayne your pfd will only prolong your suffering if you fuc- up annd go overboard, A harness and a way to get back on bourd make a hell of a lot more sense to me , Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 ps. I have done both! From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

Don't stand on the side of a small fishing boat. On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) < ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > So when you state "flys down" are you refering to one hanging it over the > side? > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Friday, January 29, 2010 7:32 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD > > > > I heard that 90% of people who drown have their flys down. Around here, > almost nobody drowns off a sailboat, they were almost always in smaller > pleasure fishing boats. > > Allen > > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > >> >> >> A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds >> complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected >> a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their >> complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for >> the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am >> sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. >> >> I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. >> >> Regards, >> Wayne >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM >> *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >> >> >> >> Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes >> are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial >> opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. >> >> > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the >> > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not >> > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those >> > who follow the calling. >> > >> > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) >> >> In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's >> fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional >> seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do >> it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for >> a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." >> >> Chris Campbell >> >> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > >

Carry a sharp knile you can open with one hand. DON'T be afraid to use it! God bless, Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 1:22:29 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A tether (harness) is a good thing, but it can also provide the capability to get beat to death on the side of the hull. At least the body can get a decent burial. You bet I use one offshore and sometimes in the Bay at night. Make sure your tether has clips at both ends. Old ones tie to the person and clip to the boat. There are stories of people going down with the ship because they could not get to the clip, and couldn't untie themselves. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD By the way Wayne your pfd will only prolong your suffering if you fuc- up annd go overboard, A harness and a way to get back on bourd make a hell of a lot more sense to me , Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 ps. I have done both! From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > > Mike, my mother (88 now) was born in Poland, my father and I in > Czechoslovakia as natives. Long story over a beer. I once asked my > mother what she thought of Polack jokes. She said they didn't bother > her. She said half of them are probably true or else all of them are > half true. More stories she can tell. I wish more people could laugh > at themselves. I've never been on a Polish train (that I know of - > maybe as a baby), but I have been offshore sailing under testy > conditions. However Polish trains are, it's probably half true. A lot depends on the tone of the joke and the intent of the joker. I'm a lawyer who no longer laughs politely at lawyer jokes because most are malicious and distort the qualities of my colleagues. Occasionally there's one that's genuinely humorous and fair. If anybody knew how hard it is to balance the obligation to get a good outcome for your client with the obligation to honor the system of justice with a devotion to fairness, you'd never tell another lawyer joke. I grew up in a community in which the largest ethnic minority was Polish. As I grew older, I came to see that the Polack jokes that I heard from others weren't really fair to the Polish people I knew, except for those gently funny ones that one could tell to Polish friends. Maybe the real test is this: would you tell this joke to a person in a position of authority over you who's in the category addressed by the joke? There are lots of funny jokes told daily on late-night TV that pass that test. It's the ones that get told privately, because doing so publicly would embarrass the teller, that we need to worry about. I'm Scottish and cheap, too, so you can tell all the frugal Scot jokes you want and I'll not be offended. That's how I can afford my boats. Chris Campbell

Thank you for your understanding, I have been on a Chinese train (1983) I have been on the California Daylight (1954 )) Any train beats being offshore in a blow but what the hell! God bless this mess! Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 1:18:27 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD (Mike) Mike, my mother (88 now) was born in Poland, my father and I in Czechoslovakia as natives. Long story over a beer. I once asked my mother what she thought of Polack jokes. She said they didn't bother her. She said half of them are probably true or else all of them are half true. More stories she can tell. I wish more people could laugh at themselves. I've never been on a Polish train (that I know of - maybe as a baby), but I have been offshore sailing under testy conditions. However Polish trains are, it's probably half true. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:57 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Ocean racing is like standing in a shower and trying to light your cigar with $100 bills. Journing by sail is like travelling 3rd. class on a Polish train(with forgivness from anybody Polish) God bless this mess, Mike Farrell Coyote Cal 20 # 61 From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

mike farrell wrote: > > > Thank you for your understanding, I have been on a Chinese train > (1983) I have been on the California Daylight (1954 > )) Any train beats being offshore in a blow but what the hell! We Americans don't have many opportunities to ride on trains so the whole concept is lost on us. We'd understand the concept of sailing better if we compared it with sitting in rush hour traffic on the freeway in ___(fill in name of urban area)__._ Chris Campbell >

Well, on the serious side: when I deem it appropriate I put on the harness, set the jacklines, and connect the tether. On the harness end of the tether there is a snap shackle that can open under load. The problem with those shackles is that they are kinda hard to pull while under load so I attach a Portuguese Sinnet (but a big one) to it. If I need to release that puppy under stress I want to be able to find the ripcord and have something substantial to grab hold of. Regards, Wayne From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 4:22:29 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A tether (harness) is a good thing, but it can also provide the capability to get beat to death on the side of the hull. At least the body can get a decent burial. You bet I use one offshore and sometimes in the Bay at night. Make sure your tether has clips at both ends. Old ones tie to the person and clip to the boat. There are stories of people going down with the ship because they could not get to the clip, and couldn't untie themselves. Take Care Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:01 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD By the way Wayne your pfd will only prolong your suffering if you fuc- up annd go overboard, A harness and a way to get back on bourd make a hell of a lot more sense to me , Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 ps. I have done both! From: Wayne Gillikin <waynegillikin@ yahoo.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 6:46:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell

The sharp knife has served me well. One time backing into our slip at Morgan Marina in NJ I had nailed the approach and had the stern gliding through the outer pilings when a first time crew dropped their line snagging the prop. Suddenly the stern of the boat was tied to the upstream piling with a 4 knot current running out. I jumped in, cut the 5/8" line and those still on the boat were able to hand line the boat back before she swung with the current and crashed into the boats down stream! My harness also has double clips and when in the cockpit I put a loop knot into the line so that I cannot reach further than the lifelines if knocked down. The knot is easily removed to go forward on the jackline, but will hold tightly under a load. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 1:44:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Carry a sharp knile you can open with one hand. DON'T be afraid to use it! God bless, Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61

Well said! In Texas, all of the "Pollack" jokes were turned into Aggie (Texas A&M) jokes! But they always had the last laugh with the one they would tell, "What do you call an Aggie 4 years after they graduate? Boss!" Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 1:46:44 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD (Mike) Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > > > > > >Mike, my mother (88 now) was born in Poland, my father and I >in Czechoslovakia as natives. Long story over a beer. I once asked my >mother what she thought of Polack jokes. She said they didn't bother >her. She said half of them are probably true or else all of them are >half true. More stories she can tell. I wish more people could laugh >at themselves. I've never been on a Polish train (that I know of - >maybe as a baby), but I have been offshore sailing under testy >conditions. However Polish trains are, it's probably half true. A lot depends on the tone of the joke and the intent of the joker. I'm a lawyer who no longer laughs politely at lawyer jokes because most are malicious and distort the qualities of my colleagues. Occasionally there's one that's genuinely humorous and fair. If anybody knew how hard it is to balance the obligation to get a good outcome for your client with the obligation to honor the system of justice with a devotion to fairness, you'd never tell another lawyer joke. I grew up in a community in which the largest ethnic minority was Polish. As I grew older, I came to see that the Polack jokes that I heard from others weren't really fair to the Polish people I knew, except for those gently funny ones that one could tell to Polish friends. Maybe the real test is this: would you tell this joke to a person in a position of authority over you who's in the category addressed by the joke? There are lots of funny jokes told daily on late-night TV that pass that test. It's the ones that get told privately, because doing so publicly would embarrass the teller, that we need to worry about. I'm Scottish and cheap, too, so you can tell all the frugal Scot jokes you want and I'll not be offended. That's how I can afford my boats. Chris Campbell

Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). PFD's? I've never worn one except during abandon ship drills on giant cruise ships. You never know when one of them might strike an ice berg on the way to Ensenada! Of course now adays I can't control my body temp like a could, so if I went overboard I'd probably succumb to hypothermia either way. What we really need is a light weight, self inflating MkII One man life raft (USN,one each) like in the movie "Hell in the Pacific". Basically its a truck sized inner-tube, but it keeps you out of the water. Brrrr! A heating pad might not be such a bad idea, or at least, a nice cozy hot water bottle. Jerry --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 1:28 PM Don't stand on the side of a small fishing boat. On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <masconsult@cox. net> wrote: So when you state "flys down" are you refering to one hanging it over the side? Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Edwards To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD I heard that 90% of people who drown have their flys down. Around here, almost nobody drowns off a sailboat, they were almost always in smaller pleasure fishing boats. Allen On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Wayne Gillikin <waynegillikin@ yahoo.com> wrote: A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. Regards, Wayne From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those > who follow the calling. > > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." Chris Campbell Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com

Well, at least now everyone knows when we are most at risk. Allen On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > > Allen, > A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his > way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, > sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other > than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. > Lucky guy! > Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I > and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much > later these days). > PFD's? I've never worn one except during abandon ship drills on giant > cruise ships. > You never know when one of them might strike an ice berg on the way to > Ensenada! > Of course now adays I can't control my body temp like a could, so if I went > overboard I'd probably succumb to hypothermia either way. > What we really need is a light weight, self inflating MkII One man life > raft (USN,one each) like in the movie "Hell in the Pacific". Basically its > a truck sized inner-tube, but it keeps you out of the water. Brrrr! A > heating pad might not be such a bad idea, or at least, a nice cozy hot water > bottle. > Jerry > > --- On *Fri, 1/29/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com>*wrote: > > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 1:28 PM > > > > Don't stand on the side of a small fishing boat. > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <masconsult@cox. > net <http://mc/compose?to=ma… [at] cox.net>> wrote: > >> >> >> So when you state "flys down" are you refering to one hanging it over the >> side? >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Allen Edwards<http://mc/compose?to=al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> >> *To:* Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, January 29, 2010 7:32 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >> >> >> >> I heard that 90% of people who drown have their flys down. Around here, >> almost nobody drowns off a sailboat, they were almost always in smaller >> pleasure fishing boats. >> >> Allen >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Wayne Gillikin <waynegillikin@ yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=wa… [at] yahoo.com> >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds >>> complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected >>> a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their >>> complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for >>> the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am >>> sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. >>> >>> I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Wayne >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com<http://mc/compose?to=cl… [at] charterinternet.com> >>> > >>> *To:* Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>> *Sent:* Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM >>> *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >>> >>> >>> >>> Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes >>> are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial >>> opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. >>> >>> > There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the >>> > calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not >>> > occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those >>> > who follow the calling. >>> > >>> > Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) >>> >>> In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's >>> fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional >>> seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do >>> it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for >>> a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." >>> >>> Chris Campbell >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset. com <http://www.eset.com> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset. com <http://www.eset.com> >> >> > >

Yes.....and that reminds me of an old, old sea adage..... One hand for the boat, and one hand for yourself....whoops! Charles S/V Boomerang! 1980 Cal 39, Mark II St Michaels, MD From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 30, 2010 2:55:45 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Well, at least now everyone knows when we are most at risk. Allen On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@ yahoo.com> wrote: >Allen, >A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! >Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). >PFD's? I've never worn one except during abandon ship drills on giant cruise ships. >You never know when one of them might strike an ice berg on the way to Ensenada! >Of course now adays I can't control my body temp like a could, so if I went overboard I'd probably succumb to hypothermia either way. >What we really need is a light weight, self inflating MkII One man life raft (USN,one each) like in the movie "Hell in the Pacific". Basically its a truck sized inner-tube, but it keeps you out of the water. Brrrr! A heating pad might not be such a bad idea, or at least, a nice cozy hot water bottle. >Jerry > >--- On Fri, 1/29/10, Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> wrote: > > >>From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >>Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 1:28 PM >> >> >> >>Don't stand on the side of a small fishing boat. >> >> >>On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <masconsult@cox. net> wrote: >> >> >>>So when you state "flys down" are you refering to one hanging it over the side? >>>Mark >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Allen Edwards >>>>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >>>>Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:32 AM >>>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >>>> >>>> >>>>I heard that 90% of people who drown have their flys down. Around here, almost nobody drowns off a sailboat, they were almost always in smaller pleasure fishing boats. >>>> >>>> >>>>Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Wayne Gillikin <waynegillikin@ yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>A great reminder, Chris. It turns out that familiarity also breeds complacency. It seems that at least once every season, even in as protected a pond as Long Island Sound, an unlucky soul is slapped out of their complacency with bad effects. Some, unfortunately, become candidates for the Darwin Award. I don't have any referential support for this, but, I am sure diligence, and vigilance are as much a part of boating as is Beer. >>>>> >>>>>I may post the Judge's opinion in my main cabin. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Wayne >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> >>>>>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >>>>>Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 9:19:42 AM >>>>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Our legal research provider sends out a headnote-of- the-day. Headnotes >>>>>are little summaries of the principle points of law in a judicial >>>>>opinion. Today's is relevant to all of us who go sailing. >>>>> >>>>>> There are inevitable hazards, some of very severe nature, in the >>>>>> calling of those who go down to sea in ships, hazards which when not >>>>>> occasioned by negligence or unseaworthiness have to be borne by those >>>>>> who follow the calling. >>>>>> >>>>>> Massey v. Williams-McWilliams , Inc., 414 F.2d 675 (5th Cir. 1969) >>>>> >>>>>In other words, there are some hazards out there that aren't anybody's >>>>>fault. Take care of yourself. The headnote refers to a professional >>>>>seaman, I'm sure, but the concept applies equally to us amateurs who do >>>>>it for fun. Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for >>>>>a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." >>>>> >>>>>Chris Campbell >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ >>>> >>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>>http://www.eset. com >>>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4818 (20100129) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>http://www.eset. com >>> >>

The last line of the summary is cute. I can attest to that. What we found what worked well on out last run was to wear our fullsize PDF's under our windproof clothing. This gave us at least an R15 value in terms of heat retention if not more. When things got funky, on came the auto inflatables but they provide zero insulation in colder climates. They do have nice D rings on them to attach your safety lanyard to the jacklines. What surprises me is that they get more expensive each year. I picked mine up for 250 CDN on sale a mustang who's model number escapes me. /ch chris campbell wrote: "Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." -- /ch

A San Francisco Bay sailor with many years of time on the water went in off an anchored Committee Boat during a race, At the time he was wearing a blow up PFD which inflated. He believes that he was seriously hindered by the configuration of the PFD, He was unable to reboard the C Boat until the PFD was deflated. He now uses a conventional PFD. I prefer a conventional PFD on smaller boats because of the padding protection they afford---less black and blue at race's end. On bigger 35' + I am ok with the blow ups. My Best, Mike Farrell Cal 20 Coyote #61 From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 30, 2010 7:51:43 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD The last line of the summary is cute. I can attest to that. What we found what worked well on out last run was to wear our fullsize PDF's under our windproof clothing. This gave us at least an R15 value in terms of heat retention if not more. When things got funky, on came the auto inflatables but they provide zero insulation in colder climates. They do have nice D rings on them to attach your safety lanyard to the jacklines. What surprises me is that they get more expensive each year. I picked mine up for 250 CDN on sale a mustang who's model number escapes me. /ch chris campbell wrote: "Remember that Dr. Johnson said "He who would go to sea for a pastime would go to hell for pleasure." -- /ch

I have both an inflatable and a non inflatable PDF and only use the inflatable if it is really hot out. I find the non inflatable much more comfortable and use it for warmth. When sailing alone, I string tubular webbing bow to stern and clip to that when going forward. I like using tubular webbing for this because it won't trip you if you step on it. It lays on the deck so you don't have to reclip as you move along. Some times the sheets get me crossed up but in general it works well. Lately, I took the took the carabiner off the strap and tie a bowline around the tubular webbing as I never liked the metal rubbing along the deck. Allen

Betcha the bowline rides better too along the jacklline. The safety line I have has very heavy hardware on both ends that actually a pain when not in use. I like this idea and will play with it. Thanks. Chris H.

I found REI a good source of tubular webbing. Allen On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:24 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > > Betcha the bowline rides better too along the jacklline. The safety line I > have has very heavy hardware on both ends that actually a pain when not in > use. I like this idea and will play with it. > > Thanks. > > Chris H. > > >

Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > Allen, > A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on > his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while > standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the > details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat > before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! > Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low > I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, > not much later these days). > I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell > > > > > > __________ >

There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell

Perhaps we should we take a poll on the number of "old guys with weak stream, or going vs. growing problems" and how it relates to our sialing adventures, either with little johnny, or sprinkling over the side....LOL.... I would, personally, like to understand how this affects Cal sailors, as opposed to other boats.... and is it diferent for power boaters?? Had this convo with my wife the other night....and she is panicking! LMAO!!! Charles S/V Boomerang! 1980 Cal 39, Mark II St Michaels, MD From: David Brown <dr… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 10:38:39 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> wrote: >From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> >Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM > > > >Gerald Sobel wrote: >Allen, >>A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! >>Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). >> >I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. > >On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. > >Chris Campbell > > > > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>__________ >

You could be on to something here. Maybe we can regress Line Pressure against Age, Boat Length, and Shoe Size. I smell a government grant. From: Charles Strasburger <bo… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 11:08:25 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Perhaps we should we take a poll on the number of "old guys with weak stream, or going vs. growing problems" and how it relates to our sialing adventures, either with little johnny, or sprinkling over the side....LOL. ... I would, personally, like to understand how this affects Cal sailors, as opposed to other boats.... and is it diferent for power boaters?? Had this convo with my wife the other night....and she is panicking! LMAO!!! Charles S/V Boomerang! 1980 Cal 39, Mark II St Michaels, MD From: David Brown <drybilge@yahoo. com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 10:38:39 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> wrote: >From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> >Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM > > > >Gerald Sobel wrote: >Allen, >>A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! >>Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). >> >I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. > >On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds > changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. > >Chris Campbell > > > > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>__________ >

This is kind of sordid, but what the hey! As an original owner, the progression has been notable. When I first bought the boat, I stood at the back stay and hit the wake 5 feet behind the boat. Wham, bam, thank you maam! After about 10 years, I started kneeling in the corner of the aft stanchions, but still cleared the stern and had no issues with hanging on or falling over. Now, after 24 years of sailing, I go below and use the galley sink. Easy handholds, direct access to the ocean, and stainless steel that does not get bothered at all. The Admiral thinks that is gross, but I suspect it is because she can't do it. Having lived in a marina at the base of the Statue of Liberty and seen the storm runoff from the city of Jersey City, I have no qualms about my little bit of pollution. Their 20 million gallons versus my half-pint doesn't seem to matter. By the way, you definitely don't want to fish when the Jersey City "Whitefish" are running! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 8:25:28 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD You could be on to something here. Maybe we can regress Line Pressure against Age, Boat Length, and Shoe Size. I smell a government grant.

glass jar sounds like inviting disaster Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: dr… [at] yahoo.com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:38:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell

OK, I hate to bring up fed regs, even though I have been guilty my self. (g) Peeing over the side may be the only discharge overboard choice. The only law (unless three miles offshore) would be indecent exposure) Peeing into a vessel would constitute discharging a sanitation devise overboard At least that is the way I understand the "rules". YMMV John From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:52:19 To: <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD glass jar sounds like inviting disaster Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: dr… [at] yahoo.com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:38:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell

I simply assumed we were only talking about when it was legal to go overboard. When in the SF Bay I always use my holding tank. We have two very easily accessed pumpouts in our marina that are self use. I don't believe in polluting inland waters. However, in Jersey City, my point was that it wouldn't have mattered much considering the huge volume dumped by the city into the Hudson. Our marina did not have pumpout -- it was there, but never worked. Donald Dutton, Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "jr… [at] triad.rr.com" <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 9:22:17 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD OK, I hate to bring up fed regs, even though I have been guilty my self. (g) Peeing over the side may be the only discharge overboard choice. The only law (unless three miles offshore) would be indecent exposure) Peeing into a vessel would constitute discharging a sanitation devise overboard At least that is the way I understand the "rules". YMMV John

Love the idea of milk bottle, but I spend a lot of time building an electric toilet out of parts, so I enjoy putting the break at the wheel and run inside.... Walter s/v ITA Cal 29 1973 Miami, FL --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Charles Strasburger <bo… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Charles Strasburger <bo… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 4:08 PM Perhaps we should we take a poll on the number of "old guys with weak stream, or going vs. growing problems" and how it relates to our sialing adventures, either with little johnny, or sprinkling over the side....LOL. ... I would, personally, like to understand how this affects Cal sailors, as opposed to other boats.... and is it diferent for power boaters?? Had this convo with my wife the other night....and she is panicking! LMAO!!! Charles S/V Boomerang! 1980 Cal 39, Mark II St Michaels, MD From: David Brown <drybilge@yahoo. com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 10:38:39 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell

Walter March wrote: > > > Love the idea of milk bottle, but I spend a lot of time building an > electric toilet out of parts, so I enjoy putting the break at the > wheel and run inside.... > My milk bottle was my solution to the problem of going below in a confined, hot, and noisy space (the schooner's head shares space with its massive diesel engine) in a big sea. My preference for big seas is to be either on deck or below, prone in my berth, with eyes closed. We have a very nice (mechanically speaking) head but in big seas I am not inclined to admire its attributes at length. Sadly, visiting the head for standing-up purposes now requires a fairly lengthy stay and the consequences in bad conditions are not good. As to the question of whether it's morally reprehensible to pee overboard, directly or via the milk bottle, I adopt the _de_ _minimis_ rule--it's too paltry a matter to worry about. It's true that we have justified all sorts of environmental degradation by rationalizing that "a little bit more won't really hurt." But this is one instance in which it's quite true. It's like throwing an apple core overboard, another practice of mine. Even if you were add up the total volume of urine produced by all sailors on a given body who periodically forgo the holding tank because of circumstances, it's inconsequential. A few years ago we had the schooner at Detroit for a Tall Ships gathering. I was admiring the clear, clean blue water running past in the Detroit River (it's draining Lakes Huron, Michigan, and Superior). Then we had a thunderstorm, and a few minutes later the river was opaque with mud, debris, and condoms. Another local organization for which I volunteer runs schoolship expereinces for school kids on local schooners. They acquired a nice building in Suttons Bay, north of me. They have installed a manmade wetland to address runoff from streets and parking lots higher than their property. It used to run across their paved parking lot and into the Bay. They perceived that this was damaging to the environment for obvious reasons. Their wetland traps sediment, oil and gas, and other pollutants from cars. A couple years ago we had a series of beach closings here because of elevated E. coli levels. That upset everybody because we regard our local waters as pristine. Investigation suggested that a large contributor to the problem was concentrations of ducks caused by people feeding them, and by dogs along the shoreline. So when it comes to the occasional rough-weather urination alternative, I don't take an absolutist view. Better a bit of urine that my stomach's contents. Chris Campbell > > > > >

Reggie, Glass jars are nearly unbreakable these days, the biggest problem is the metal lid begins to rust pretty badly. Lately they make mayonnaise jars that are 100% plastic, which should solve that problem. If you're older a plastic peanut butter jar will work just fine! Of course, with Gatorade, you should mark the bottle so people aren't re-consuming that slightly yellow, somewhat salty substance unwittingly! The nice thing about the jars is you're being safe, modest, and saving work if you only have a porta-potty. I think the biggest problem with urine in sea water is the risk of introducing trace pharmaceuticals, but the city treatment plants do that all the time with their effluent. Poor fish! Poor us when we eat'em and re-consume what was in eveyone's medicine chest! Urine is nearly always sterile, in combat situations in WWII it was the only thing available that was safe to use to wash wounds. It was also used as a detergent for laundry for Cook's expedition, and they stay it is far superiour to soap since it leaves no residue. But having salty clothes from sea water doesn't sound so great either. Jerry --- On Mon, 2/1/10, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:52 AM glass jar sounds like inviting disaster Reggie To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: drybilge@yahoo. com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:38:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell

Ain't it great! From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 6:51:35 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, >A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! >Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). > I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>__________

Cal groups can count on you for an injection of intelligence and reality! Never give in! My Best, mike From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 2:50:30 PM Subject: RE: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD(Reggie) Reggie, Glass jars are nearly unbreakable these days, the biggest problem is the metal lid begins to rust pretty badly. Lately they make mayonnaise jars that are 100% plastic, which should solve that problem. If you're older a plastic peanut butter jar will work just fine! Of course, with Gatorade, you should mark the bottle so people aren't re-consuming that slightly yellow, somewhat salty substance unwittingly! The nice thing about the jars is you're being safe, modest, and saving work if you only have a porta-potty. I think the biggest problem with urine in sea water is the risk of introducing trace pharmaceuticals, but the city treatment plants do that all the time with their effluent. Poor fish! Poor us when we eat'em and re-consume what was in eveyone's medicine chest! Urine is nearly always sterile, in combat situations in WWII it was the only thing available that was safe to use to wash wounds. It was also used as a detergent for laundry for Cook's expedition, and they stay it is far superiour to soap since it leaves no residue. But having salty clothes from sea water doesn't sound so great either. Jerry --- On Mon, 2/1/10, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: >From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> >Subject: RE: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:52 AM > > > >glass jar sounds like inviting disaster >Reggie > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >From: drybilge@yahoo. com >Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:38:39 -0800 >Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD > > >There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. > >Dave > >--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> wrote: > > >>From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> >>Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD >>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >>Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM >> >> >> >>Gerald Sobel wrote: >> >>Allen, >>>A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! >>>Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). >>> >>I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. >> >>On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. >> >>Chris Campbell >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>__________ >> >> >

In the Middle Ages/Renaissance, urine was used as used as a teeth whitener. It was later discovered that it was the ammonia content that did the trick. Do you folks remember toothpaste with ammonia as a whitener? We could have saved the money if we'd only known the origin. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:50 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD(Reggie) Cal groups can count on you for an injection of intelligence and reality! Never give in! My Best, mike From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 2:50:30 PM Subject: RE: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD(Reggie) Reggie, Glass jars are nearly unbreakable these days, the biggest problem is the metal lid begins to rust pretty badly. Lately they make mayonnaise jars that are 100% plastic, which should solve that problem. If you're older a plastic peanut butter jar will work just fine! Of course, with Gatorade, you should mark the bottle so people aren't re-consuming that slightly yellow, somewhat salty substance unwittingly! The nice thing about the jars is you're being safe, modest, and saving work if you only have a porta-potty. I think the biggest problem with urine in sea water is the risk of introducing trace pharmaceuticals, but the city treatment plants do that all the time with their effluent. Poor fish! Poor us when we eat'em and re-consume what was in eveyone's medicine chest! Urine is nearly always sterile, in combat situations in WWII it was the only thing available that was safe to use to wash wounds. It was also used as a detergent for laundry for Cook's expedition, and they stay it is far superiour to soap since it leaves no residue. But having salty clothes from sea water doesn't sound so great either. Jerry --- On Mon, 2/1/10, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:52 AM glass jar sounds like inviting disaster Reggie To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> From: drybilge@yahoo. com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:38:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com<http://nternet.com/>> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt.. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell

so are we talking about personal floatation devices or PEE D F's. Recently I crewed with a retired port policeman, who not only says its ok to pee off the stern or wherever suitable, but also insures theres plenty by drinking more beer than I can hold and while at the helm....If it was me drinking we would get stopped in a heart beat. In fact yesterday we started up the motor and went to the LA breakwater in San Pedro turn it off and drifted around in the quiet morning. Wouldn't you know it a port police was over within a few minutes to see if all was ok.....yup all is fine! Mark From: mike farrell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:50 PM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD(Reggie) Cal groups can count on you for an injection of intelligence and reality! Never give in! My Best, mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 2:50:30 PM Subject: RE: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD(Reggie) Reggie, Glass jars are nearly unbreakable these days, the biggest problem is the metal lid begins to rust pretty badly. Lately they make mayonnaise jars that are 100% plastic, which should solve that problem. If you're older a plastic peanut butter jar will work just fine! Of course, with Gatorade, you should mark the bottle so people aren't re-consuming that slightly yellow, somewhat salty substance unwittingly! The nice thing about the jars is you're being safe, modest, and saving work if you only have a porta-potty. I think the biggest problem with urine in sea water is the risk of introducing trace pharmaceuticals, but the city treatment plants do that all the time with their effluent. Poor fish! Poor us when we eat'em and re-consume what was in eveyone's medicine chest! Urine is nearly always sterile, in combat situations in WWII it was the only thing available that was safe to use to wash wounds. It was also used as a detergent for laundry for Cook's expedition, and they stay it is far superiour to soap since it leaves no residue. But having salty clothes from sea water doesn't sound so great either. Jerry --- On Mon, 2/1/10, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:52 AM glass jar sounds like inviting disaster Reggie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: drybilge@yahoo. com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:38:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD There is a device intended for this purpose specifickly. I believe it is called the little Johny, it works great I have had it for years, the is also a attachment for women also.I found it at Fleet & Farm. Also a Gatorrade bottle works great. Dave --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:51 AM Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt.. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard.. On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell __________ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4825 (20100201) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4825 (20100201) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Flomax you say? I was taking it for about two years, finally I was beginning to feel like somehow the urine in my bladder was backing up into my kidneys, [really lousy feeling and, which any good urologist will tell you is a no-no since it can lead to kidney infection or kidney disease]. So, I skipped taking Flomax for a couple of days and I fell a whole lot better. This 'backing up feeling' was a feeling I had began to have after drinking a few beers on a weekend nite, had upon waking up in the early AM, but had started to bother me even when I didn't imbibe. I had been previously been perscribed tamsulosin which I've been taking for a few years, so I was taking both medication, and frankly I wasn't sure which of these two meds was causing me this discomfort. Eventually, about two months ago, I stopped taking tamsulosin also and I felt even better, and I even started to dream again at night and didn't feel so groggy in the morning..altho maybe I may have to make a visit to the head at night, it's a small price to pay. This is not to recommend anyone stop taking meds, just a heads up from my own experience, and to suggest you-all might try this or that and see how it 'goes'. Jerry --- On Mon, 2/1/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 3:39 PM Ain't it great! From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 6:51:35 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard... On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell

I once had to go to the head in a big jet in terrible turbulence. The fasten seat belt sign was on and all the stewardesses were in seats belted in. When I got out one of them asked how it was. I said no problem at all, I just wedged my head against the tall, pressed my feet against the other wall and was wedged in nice and tight, just like on my boat. No big deal. I love small heads. How on earth would you use a large one. A person could be hurt. Allen On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Chris Campbell < cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: > > > Walter March wrote: > > Love the idea of milk bottle, but I spend a lot of time building an > electric toilet out of parts, so I enjoy putting the break at the wheel and > run inside.... > > > My milk bottle was my solution to the problem of going below in a confined, > hot, and noisy space (the schooner's head shares space with its massive > diesel engine) in a big sea. My preference for big seas is to be either on > deck or below, prone in my berth, with eyes closed. We have a very nice > (mechanically speaking) head but in big seas I am not inclined to admire its > attributes at length. Sadly, visiting the head for standing-up purposes now > requires a fairly lengthy stay and the consequences in bad conditions are > not good. > > As to the question of whether it's morally reprehensible to pee overboard, > directly or via the milk bottle, I adopt the *de* *minimis* rule--it's > too paltry a matter to worry about. It's true that we have justified all > sorts of environmental degradation by rationalizing that "a little bit more > won't really hurt." But this is one instance in which it's quite true. > It's like throwing an apple core overboard, another practice of mine. Even > if you were add up the total volume of urine produced by all sailors on a > given body who periodically forgo the holding tank because of circumstances, > it's inconsequential. A few years ago we had the schooner at Detroit for a > Tall Ships gathering. I was admiring the clear, clean blue water running > past in the Detroit River (it's draining Lakes Huron, Michigan, and > Superior). Then we had a thunderstorm, and a few minutes later the river > was opaque with mud, debris, and condoms. > > Another local organization for which I volunteer runs schoolship > expereinces for school kids on local schooners. They acquired a nice > building in Suttons Bay, north of me. They have installed a manmade wetland > to address runoff from streets and parking lots higher than their property. > It used to run across their paved parking lot and into the Bay. They > perceived that this was damaging to the environment for obvious reasons. > Their wetland traps sediment, oil and gas, and other pollutants from cars. > > A couple years ago we had a series of beach closings here because of > elevated E. coli levels. That upset everybody because we regard our local > waters as pristine. Investigation suggested that a large contributor to the > problem was concentrations of ducks caused by people feeding them, and by > dogs along the shoreline. > > So when it comes to the occasional rough-weather urination alternative, I > don't take an absolutist view. Better a bit of urine that my stomach's > contents. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > >

tamsulosin and Flomax are the same drug. Tamsulosin is the generic name for Flomax. If you were taking both at the same time your symptom could be a sign of too high a dose. drew new haven ct To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: so… [at] yahoo.com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:59:35 -0800 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Chris C.) Flomax you say? I was taking it for about two years, finally I was beginning to feel like somehow the urine in my bladder was backing up into my kidneys, [really lousy feeling and, which any good urologist will tell you is a no-no since it can lead to kidney infection or kidney disease]. So, I skipped taking Flomax for a couple of days and I fell a whole lot better. This 'backing up feeling' was a feeling I had began to have after drinking a few beers on a weekend nite, had upon waking up in the early AM, but had started to bother me even when I didn't imbibe. I had been previously been perscribed tamsulosin which I've been taking for a few years, so I was taking both medication, and frankly I wasn't sure which of these two meds was causing me this discomfort. Eventually, about two months ago, I stopped taking tamsulosin also and I felt even better, and I even started to dream again at night and didn't feel so groggy in the morning..altho maybe I may have to make a visit to the head at night, it's a small price to pay. This is not to recommend anyone stop taking meds, just a heads up from my own experience, and to suggest you-all might try this or that and see how it 'goes'. Jerry --- On Mon, 2/1/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 3:39 PM Ain't it great! From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 6:51:35 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard... On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/

The milk bottle idea is a good one. As we dont have those up north in large quantities and especialy not on the East Coast, the Miramachi Salmon FIshing Guides came up with a similar solution that has worked for generations while all layered up and flyfishing for salmon. The hand you a 1 liter Javex bottle (actuall any 1L plastic bottle will do) that has the bottom cut off to form a skoop similar to what you would see at the bulk store. You just hold the bottle upside down and shove the scoop between all the layers and your good to go. To drain it, you just undo the cap which is now at the bottom. Javex bottles work best as they have a nice sturdy handle. While on the topic, anyone heard of a piddle stick? Its another East Coast thing that the older fella's use to this day. Basically its a walking stick with a handle carved into it at the top that is about 4 inches wide. Between the handle and the actual cane part this forms a large V area. THe V area has a piece of scuplted wood inserted so it fits tightly and is supported by two pins on the access so it can be flipped out. The older fella's use these while working in the fields as the sculped V ensures dry pants and undergarments. These tools have been around for at least 100 years and are now sold as tourist items. They work really well when on land..:) Cal content: sorry cant really think of any on this topic. /ch

chris123 wrote: > > > The milk bottle idea is a good one. The milk bottle is the plastic version, so it's unbreakable and durable. Can't beat the price. The mouth of the bottle is sized just about right to fit securely and prevent misalignment of body parts & bottle. Then you can put the cap back on and the contents are secure until disposed of. That can be a blessing in a big sea, especially afterward when you're trying to get the layers of clothing & foul weather gear all back in order with the one free hand. Chris Campbell

Drew, Woops~! youre right. I'm on or was on tamsulosin HCL 0.4MG. the other perscription is for Finasteride 5mg. I've stopped taking both of them. Last night I took one capsule of tamsulosin, just to see what would happen and I had those pains like my ureters didn't want to drain. Eechh! My advice to everyone is the same advice my dad gave, which is, don't get old; you get old, you get aches and pains. When you get really old, the aches and pains MULTIPLY! You see how I've followed his advice dutifully, just like all the good advice parents give children (those old fogies, what do they know??). Jerry, Cal24 Shpritz, #71, senior boat of all Cal-boats except, well, maybe them Lapworths? --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Drew Ratchelous <cr… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: Drew Ratchelous <cr… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Chris C.) To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 5:39 AM tamsulosin and Flomax are the same drug. Tamsulosin is the generic name for Flomax. If you were taking both at the same time your symptom could be a sign of too high a dose. drew new haven ct To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: sobel_solar@ yahoo.com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:59:35 -0800 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Chris C.) Flomax you say? I was taking it for about two years, finally I was beginning to feel like somehow the urine in my bladder was backing up into my kidneys, [really lousy feeling and, which any good urologist will tell you is a no-no since it can lead to kidney infection or kidney disease]. So, I skipped taking Flomax for a couple of days and I fell a whole lot better. This 'backing up feeling' was a feeling I had began to have after drinking a few beers on a weekend nite, had upon waking up in the early AM, but had started to bother me even when I didn't imbibe. I had been previously been perscribed tamsulosin which I've been taking for a few years, so I was taking both medication, and frankly I wasn't sure which of these two meds was causing me this discomfort. Eventually, about two months ago, I stopped taking tamsulosin also and I felt even better, and I even started to dream again at night and didn't feel so groggy in the morning..altho maybe I may have to make a visit to the head at night, it's a small price to pay. This is not to recommend anyone stop taking meds, just a heads up from my own experience, and to suggest you-all might try this or that and see how it 'goes'. Jerry --- On Mon, 2/1/10, mike farrell <vectormenow@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <vectormenow@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 3:39 PM Ain't it great! From: Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 6:51:35 AM Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD Gerald Sobel wrote: Allen, A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. Lucky guy! Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much later these days). I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and don't risk falling overboard... On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. Chris Campbell Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

How much longer until I am old? I tell people that at 62 I feel as good as I did when I was 26 although it is possible I think that because my memory is going. Allen Papoose L-36 #5 On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Drew, > Woops~! youre right. I'm on or was on tamsulosin HCL 0.4MG. the other > perscription is for Finasteride 5mg. I've stopped taking both of them. Last > night I took one capsule of tamsulosin, just to see what would happen and I > had those pains like my ureters didn't want to drain. Eechh! My advice to > everyone is the same advice my dad gave, which is, don't get old; you get > old, you get aches and pains. When you get really old, the aches and pains > MULTIPLY! > > You see how I've followed his advice dutifully, just like all the good > advice parents give children (those old fogies, what do they know??). > Jerry, Cal24 Shpritz, #71, senior boat of all Cal-boats except, well, > maybe them Lapworths? > > --- On *Tue, 2/2/10, Drew Ratchelous <cr… [at] hotmail.com>* wrote: > > > From: Drew Ratchelous <cr… [at] hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Chris C.) > To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 5:39 AM > > > > tamsulosin and Flomax are the same drug. Tamsulosin is the generic name > for Flomax. If you were taking both at the same time your symptom could be a > sign of too high a dose. > drew > new haven ct > > ------------------------------ > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > From: sobel_solar@ yahoo.com > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:59:35 -0800 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Chris C.) > > > Flomax you say? > I was taking it for about two years, finally I was beginning to feel like > somehow the urine in my bladder was backing up into my kidneys, [really > lousy feeling and, which any good urologist will tell you is a no-no since > it can lead to kidney infection or kidney disease]. So, I skipped taking > Flomax for a couple of days and I fell a whole lot better. This 'backing up > feeling' was a feeling I had began to have after drinking a few beers on a > weekend nite, had upon waking up in the early AM, but had started to bother > me even when I didn't imbibe. > > I had been previously been perscribed tamsulosin which I've been taking for > a few years, so I was taking both medication, and frankly I wasn't sure > which of these two meds was causing me this discomfort. Eventually, about > two months ago, I stopped taking tamsulosin also and I felt even better, and > I even started to dream again at night and didn't feel so groggy in the > morning..altho maybe I may have to make a visit to the head at night, it's a > small price to pay. > > This is not to recommend anyone stop taking meds, just a heads up from my > own experience, and to suggest you-all might try this or that and see how it > 'goes'. > Jerry > > --- On *Mon, 2/1/10, mike farrell <vectormenow@ yahoo.com>* wrote: > > > From: mike farrell <vectormenow@ yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 3:39 PM > > > > > Ain't it great! > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> > *To:* Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > *Sent:* Mon, February 1, 2010 6:51:35 AM > *Subject:* Re: Safe relief, was..Re: [Cal_Boats] wear your PFD > > > > Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Allen, > A few years ago a sailor, reasonably experienced, single handling on his > way back from Catalina, off Redondo Beach went overboard while standing, > sprinkling off the stern of his boat. I can't remember the details, other > than he survived/was picked up, and so was his boat before it ran ashore. > Lucky guy! > Me? I use a qt. size glass jar, I'm modest! And my freeboard is so low I > and pour and flush the jar before putting it away for later (ha ha, not much > later these days). > > > I never realized that there was a positive side to reaching the age of low > flow. The name "Flomax" was obviously cooked up in the marketing dept., not > the laboratory. So I tend to pee in a bucket or other small container and > don't risk falling overboard... > > On my last schooner voyage, I had just had the meds changed and had > started on the Flomax instead of the stuff that actually worked. I had > anticipated the possibility of needing to pee but not wanting to be below in > the head so I brought a 1-qt. plastic milk bottle. There was some general > hilarity among the crew. Then we got into a bit of a blow for a day and > nobody was excited about spending time below. Now everybody wanted to > borrow my milk bottle. You could stand in the forward companionway, on the > ladder, head and shoulders above deck, all nice and secure and not too wet > from the spray flying, and take care of business while seeing the horizon. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > > > __________ > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up > now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/> > > >

Allen Edwards wrote: > > > How much longer until I am old? > > I tell people that at 62 I feel as good as I did when I was 26 > although it is possible I think that because my memory is going. You've just transposed the digits. Must be a form of dementia. Chris Campbell >

Allen, 62 is young! Wait till you're 63 and it'll hit you, things will stop working little by little, every morning another wrinkle; it's down right scary! The eye brows will start to thicken, curl over and start growing in odd directions like one of them famous California oak trees. And the aches and pains, oye, will multiply. Jerry --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Drew) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 6:46 AM Allen Edwards wrote: How much longer until I am old? I tell people that at 62 I feel as good as I did when I was 26 although it is possible I think that because my memory is going. You've just transposed the digits. Must be a form of dementia. Chris Campbell

Jerry, just ..relieved.. you were not getting the wrong dose. drew new haven To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: so… [at] yahoo.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:11:21 -0800 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Drew) Drew, Woops~! youre right. I'm on or was on tamsulosin HCL 0.4MG. the other perscription is for Finasteride 5mg. I've stopped taking both of them. Last night I took one capsule of tamsulosin, just to see what would happen and I had those pains like my ureters didn't want to drain. Eechh! My advice to everyone is the same advice my dad gave, which is, don't get old; you get old, you get aches and pains. When you get really old, the aches and pains MULTIPLY! You see how I've followed his advice dutifully, just like all the good advice parents give children (those old fogies, what do they know??). Jerry, Cal24 Shpritz, #71, senior boat of all Cal-boats except, well, maybe them Lapworths? --- Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/

I feel so much better now knowing I have several months of youth left. Allen On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Allen, > 62 is young! Wait till you're 63 and it'll hit you, things will stop > working little by little, every morning another wrinkle; it's down right > scary! The eye brows will start to thicken, curl over and start growing in > odd directions like one of them famous California oak trees. And the aches > and pains, oye, will multiply. > Jerry > > --- On *Wed, 2/3/10, Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com>*wrote: > > > From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Drew) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 6:46 AM > > > > Allen Edwards wrote: > > How much longer until I am old? > > I tell people that at 62 I feel as good as I did when I was 26 although > it is possible I think that because my memory is going. > > > You've just transposed the digits. Must be a form of dementia. > > Chris Campbell > > > > >

OK, More advice: When you're 15 don't race a flat bed tractor trailer (the kind used for hauling bull dozers) down the street, standing on your pedals, with the chain coming off and going head over heels over the front of the handle bars and land on your head on the asphalt; don't lose your balance and fall off the top of the hay wagon (about a story and a half up), and don't try T-boning the side of a mountain head first with a hang glider, and don't slip with your feet out from under you on a wet boat deck and land on a sharp board with your tail bone. It could put a hurt on your back on your old age. My Mom is 95 and doesn't have my aches and pains! Jerry --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Drew Ratchelous <cr… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: Drew Ratchelous <cr… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Drew) To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 1:56 PM Jerry, just ..relieved.. you were not getting the wrong dose. drew new haven To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: sobel_solar@ yahoo.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:11:21 -0800 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Flomax was:Re: Safe relief(Drew) Drew, Woops~! youre right. I'm on or was on tamsulosin HCL 0.4MG. the other perscription is for Finasteride 5mg. I've stopped taking both of them. Last night I took one capsule of tamsulosin, just to see what would happen and I had those pains like my ureters didn't want to drain. Eechh! My advice to everyone is the same advice my dad gave, which is, don't get old; you get old, you get aches and pains. When you get really old, the aches and pains MULTIPLY! You see how I've followed his advice dutifully, just like all the good advice parents give children (those old fogies, what do they know??). Jerry, Cal24 Shpritz, #71, senior boat of all Cal-boats except, well, maybe them Lapworths? --- Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.