Re: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins

Well done, Paul! Damned impressive job. Thanks but I think the the demo is going to be the easy part. Making it look good is going to be the hard part . . . I see lots of sanding in my future. Question, was all the glue you removed with the brush dry? Did you have any glue that was gummy? If so how did you remove the gummy glue? Thankfully it was all dry and crusty. Probably when I wipe it all down with acetone I'll make it gummy again with my luck. Hey, did you ever get your website up and running? Paul From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: mr… [at] efni.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 3:59:29 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Well, all the vinyl is gone and most of the glue taken off with an angle grinder with one bad ass wire brush attached. I was smart enough to mask off the areas where I didn't want residue with masking tape and cheap drop cloths which saved me a lot of cleanup. I also wore appropriate safety gear . . .LUKE . . . I AM YOUR FATHER . . . at least that's what I felt like ;-) The clean spot in the middle is after one pass of the grinder My next step is to wash down the walls with acetone and get as much remaining residue off as I can. Then I hope to fair it with West Systems 410, the light micro-ballons. Here is the question of the day . . . am I now going to be getting condensation on these "walls" and the underside of the decks? If so, was the foam backed vinyl that was there preventing it before or just absorbing it? Donald if you're reading this, did your wife ever have the chance to look into insulation values of paints or fillers with the microballoons? The one thing that has really struck me about this job so far is how inaccessible the genny track bolts, the stanchion base bolts and basically anything bolted to the side decks are. Without basically destroying the interior of the boat they are basically not accessible which explains why I have 2 stanchion bases that are cracked and probably 3 others that wobble! Paul West Adventure Kwest '80 Cal 39

If the glue on your boat is the same as the glue on my boat it will completely ignore the acetone. I removed all the crusty glue on my boat with a stiff wire brush on a hang drill. However, when the brush got into the gooey stuff it got gummed up and nothing except paint remover will get it off. Could be the glue that is holding the boat together. Which web site? Regards, Wayne From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 4:24:11 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Well > done, Paul! Damned impressive job. Thanks but I think the the demo is going to be the easy part. Making it look good is going to be the hard part . . . I see lots of sanding in my future. > >Question, > was all the glue you removed with the brush dry? Did you have any glue > that was gummy? If so how did you remove the gummy glue? > Thankfully it was all dry and crusty. Probably when I wipe it all down with acetone I'll make it gummy again with my luck. Hey, did you ever get your website up and running? Paul > > > > > > > From: "pw… [at] aol.com" > <pw… [at] aol.com> >To: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Cc: > mr… [at] efni.com >Sent: Wed, May > 5, 2010 3:59:29 PM >Subject: > [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins > >Well, all the vinyl is gone and most of the glue taken off with an angle > grinder with one bad ass wire brush attached. I was smart enough to > mask off the areas where I didn't want residue with masking tape and cheap > drop cloths which saved me a lot of cleanup. > > >I also wore appropriate safety gear . . .LUKE . . . I AM YOUR FATHER . . > . at least that's what I felt like ;-) > >The clean spot in the middle is after one pass of the grinder > > >My next step is to wash down the walls with acetone and get as much > remaining residue off as I can. Then I hope to fair it with West > Systems 410, the light micro-ballons. > >Here is the question of the day . . . am I now going to be getting > condensation on these "walls" and the underside of the decks? If so, was > the foam backed vinyl that was there preventing it before or just > absorbing it? > >Donald if you're reading this, did your wife ever have the chance to look > into insulation values of paints or fillers with the microballoons? > >The one thing that has really struck me about this job so far is how > inaccessible the genny track bolts, the stanchion base bolts and basically > anything bolted to the side decks are. Without basically destroying the > interior of the boat they are basically not accessible which explains why I > have 2 stanchion bases that are cracked and probably 3 others that > wobble! > >Paul West >Adventure Kwest >'80 Cal 39 > > >

I'm on the Chesapeake where the air and water temps stay pretty close to each other if 20-30 degrees is considered close. On the West Systems site they have an article about it, oddly enough, and they say that good ventilation will prevent condensation. So maybe I'll put my dorade vents back on and make their removal just one more thing to do before racing. Paul In a message dated 5/5/2010 4:36:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cl… [at] charterinternet.com writes: _p… [at] aol.pwe_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) wrote: Here is the question of the day . . . am I now going to be getting condensation on these "walls" and the underside of the decks? If so, was the foam backed vinyl that was there preventing it before or just absorbing it? If it's any help, I get condensation below the waterline on the bare, painted fiberglass interior of my Cal 20. It happens when the weather is warm & humid. You can see where the waterline is by viewing the condensation line down below. We're in a place where the water tends to stay cold all summer, especially when the wind is offshore, driving off the warm surface water and causing the upwelling along shore of cold deep water. Chris Campbell

Paul we went through this nightmare on our 2-46. My experience was that after trying every brain toxin known to man the glue won and we got a nice chemical buzz. Here's what we ended up doing: 1. Thoroughly clean the glue with the stuff you thought would remove it. 2. paint 2- 3 coats of 2 part epoxy. 3. wipe down with acetone. 4. 2 coats of 1part topside primer 5. 2 coats of topside finish 4 years and it still looks great. Good luck Wyatt s/v Blythe Spirit St. Pete From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 4:24 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Well done, Paul! Damned impressive job. Thanks but I think the the demo is going to be the easy part. Making it look good is going to be the hard part . . . I see lots of sanding in my future. Question, was all the glue you removed with the brush dry? Did you have any glue that was gummy? If so how did you remove the gummy glue? Thankfully it was all dry and crusty. Probably when I wipe it all down with acetone I'll make it gummy again with my luck. Hey, did you ever get your website up and running? Paul From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: mr… [at] efni.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 3:59:29 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Well, all the vinyl is gone and most of the glue taken off with an angle grinder with one bad ass wire brush attached. I was smart enough to mask off the areas where I didn't want residue with masking tape and cheap drop cloths which saved me a lot of cleanup. I also wore appropriate safety gear . . .LUKE . . . I AM YOUR FATHER . . . at least that's what I felt like ;-) The clean spot in the middle is after one pass of the grinder My next step is to wash down the walls with acetone and get as much remaining residue off as I can. Then I hope to fair it with West Systems 410, the light micro-ballons. Here is the question of the day . . . am I now going to be getting condensation on these "walls" and the underside of the decks? If so, was the foam backed vinyl that was there preventing it before or just absorbing it? Donald if you're reading this, did your wife ever have the chance to look into insulation values of paints or fillers with the microballoons? The one thing that has really struck me about this job so far is how inaccessible the genny track bolts, the stanchion base bolts and basically anything bolted to the side decks are. Without basically destroying the interior of the boat they are basically not accessible which explains why I have 2 stanchion bases that are cracked and probably 3 others that wobble! Paul West Adventure Kwest '80 Cal 39

pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > > I'm on the Chesapeake where the air and water temps stay pretty close > to each other if 20-30 degrees is considered close. On the West > Systems site they have an article about it, oddly enough, and they say > that good ventilation will prevent condensation. It may reduce condensation, but you're not going to prevent it when you have warm, moist air and a cooler surface. Tent campers know about the use of a waterproof fly over a tent. It has two effects. First, it's a barrier between the tent and the cold, dark night sky, preventing radiation heat losses from the tent surface to the black sky. Second, it allows the permeable tent surface to breathe moisture that would accumulate if the surface were impermeable (waterproof). My other boat has an uncored cabin trunk top. It tends to be affected by radiant heat losses at night, even when unoccupied. The surface loses heat to the dark night sky and to the cool ambient air. The relatively warmer air inside condenses its moisture, the overhead gets damp, and then I have to scrub the mildew off. The Cal 20's cored deck insulates it some, diminishing that effect, but the hull is not cored. When we get really warm, moist days, the warm air condenses out moisture onto the cool hull below waterline. You can actually see where the waterline is, because there's condensation below it but not above it. Ventilation actually makes it worse, since it introduces more warm, moist air to the cold surfaces. Ventilation works under more normal conditions. Chris Campbell

Paul we went through this nightmare on our 2-46. My experience was that after trying every brain toxin known to man the glue won and we got a nice chemical buzz. I think I got the majority of it off . .. hopefully. I am wiping down with acetone to prep the fiberglass for the West Systems mainly but to hopefully remove any remaining residue. We'll see what happens I guess. Here’s what we ended up doing: Thoroughly clean the glue with the stuff you thought would remove it. paint 2- 3 coats of 2 part epoxy. So no fairing of the rough glass and uneven surfaces? wipe down with acetone. 2 coats of 1part topside primer No sanding between coats was necessary? 2 coats of topside finish 4years and it still looks great. That's encouraging. No stress cracks or anything? Good luck Thanks! Paul Wyatt s/v Blythe Spirit St. Pete From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou Cal_Boats@yaho Cal_Boats@y Cal_BoOn Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.pwe Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 4:24 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou C Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Well done, Paul! Damned impressive job. Thanks but I think the the demo is going to be the easy part. Making it look good is going to be the hard part . . . I see lots of sanding in my future. Question, was all the glue you removed with the brush dry? Did you have any glue that was gummy? If so how did you remove the gummy glue? Thankfully it was all dry and crusty. Probably when I wipe it all down with acetone I'll make it gummy again with my luck. Hey, did you ever get your website up and running? Paul From: "pwestla@aol. <pw… [at] aol.pwe> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou Cc: mr… [at] efni.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 3:59:29 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Well, all the vinyl is gone and most of the glue taken off with an angle grinder with one bad ass wire brush attached. I was smart enough to mask off the areas where I didn't want residue with masking tape and cheap drop cloths which saved me a lot of cleanup. I also wore appropriate safety gear . . .LUKE . . . I AM YOUR FATHER . . . at least that's what I felt like ;-) The clean spot in the middle is after one pass of the grinder My next step is to wash down the walls with acetone and get as much remaining residue off as I can. Then I hope to fair it with West Systems 410, the light micro-ballons. Here is the question of the day . . . am I now going to be getting condensation on these "walls" and the underside of the decks? If so, was the foam backed vinyl that was there preventing it before or just absorbing it? Donald if you're reading this, did your wife ever have the chance to look into insulation values of paints or fillers with the microballoons? The one thing that has really struck me about this job so far is how inaccessible the genny track bolts, the stanchion base bolts and basically anything bolted to the side decks are. Without basically destroying the interior of the boat they are basically not accessible which explains why I have 2 stanchion bases that are cracked and probably 3 others that wobble! Paul West Adventure Kwest '80 '80 39

I painted thickly over the remnants of the crap. Adequate result, I guess. However, if using epoxy, I would assume that a sanding is needed before painting. I have been using Mas epoxy in recent times because of the "non blushing" characteristic that theoretically reduces sanding between coats of epoxy. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 12:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: mr… [at] efni.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Paul we went through this nightmare on our 2-46. My experience was that after trying every brain toxin known to man the glue won and we got a nice chemical buzz. I think I got the majority of it off . .. hopefully. I am wiping down with acetone to prep the fiberglass for the West Systems mainly but to hopefully remove any remaining residue. We'll see what happens I guess. Here's what we ended up doing: Thoroughly clean the glue with the stuff you thought would remove it. paint 2- 3 coats of 2 part epoxy. So no fairing of the rough glass and uneven surfaces? wipe down with acetone. 2 coats of 1part topside primer No sanding between coats was necessary? 2 coats of topside finish 4years and it still looks great. That's encouraging. No stress cracks or anything? Good luck Thanks! Paul Wyatt s/v Blythe Spirit St. Pete From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 4:24 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Well done, Paul! Damned impressive job. Thanks but I think the the demo is going to be the easy part. Making it look good is going to be the hard part . . . I see lots of sanding in my future. Question, was all the glue you removed with the brush dry? Did you have any glue that was gummy? If so how did you remove the gummy glue? Thankfully it was all dry and crusty. Probably when I wipe it all down with acetone I'll make it gummy again with my luck. Hey, did you ever get your website up and running? Paul From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: mr… [at] efni.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 3:59:29 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Vinyl & Glue Removed . . . more fun begins Well, all the vinyl is gone and most of the glue taken off with an angle grinder with one bad ass wire brush attached. I was smart enough to mask off the areas where I didn't want residue with masking tape and cheap drop cloths which saved me a lot of cleanup. [cid:460161421@06052010-0C38] I also wore appropriate safety gear . . .LUKE . . . I AM YOUR FATHER . . . at least that's what I felt like ;-) [cid:460161421@06052010-0C3F] The clean spot in the middle is after one pass of the grinder [cid:460161421@06052010-0C46] My next step is to wash down the walls with acetone and get as much remaining residue off as I can. Then I hope to fair it with West Systems 410, the light micro-ballons. Here is the question of the day . . . am I now going to be getting condensation on these "walls" and the underside of the decks? If so, was the foam backed vinyl that was there preventing it before or just absorbing it? Donald if you're reading this, did your wife ever have the chance to look into insulation values of paints or fillers with the microballoons? The one thing that has really struck me about this job so far is how inaccessible the genny track bolts, the stanchion base bolts and basically anything bolted to the side decks are. Without basically destroying the interior of the boat they are basically not accessible which explains why I have 2 stanchion bases that are cracked and probably 3 others that wobble! Paul West Adventure Kwest '80 Cal 39