Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland

We have friends that sailed from Sarasota Florida to new zealand. They left without an epirb, sat phone or any other means of outside help just for that reason. If something went wrong they didn't want someone risking there lives to save thiers. Rich On Jun 12, 2010, at 10:20 PM, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: OK, OK. I've seen enough. One way to view it is: "You go, Girl! What guts! What desire!" Fine and dandy. Without risk, amazing things are not done. Now, I want to consider it in a somewhat different fashion. OK, Ma'am (or her father), you want to risk your life on some zany adventure. More power to you. Have a ball. Just don't expect others to risk their lives to pull you out of it if it goes bad. Imagine the risk of bailing her out of this lark. If one wants to take ultimate risk, maybe one should accept ultimate sacrifice. Don't expect to get bailed out. Beyond the risk of the lives of others, what do you think the rescue operation cost? My 2 Cents Cheers, Anyway Charlie

My understanding is the family is on the hook for the plane and the rescue. I dont understand the risk element here. Folks who do rescue work are highly trained and in very specialized equipment. Everything is done to minimize their risk. And yes they should be well compensated for that and "adventures and sportsmen/woman" should be on the hook for their services. In Canada for example, if you want to make a shot for the Pole, and many used too and rely on Coast Guard as the free ticket home, you must now post a bond that is returned to you if and when you return without involving coastguard. If I'm not mistaken its around 200K Its not the price of the rescue rather a deterrent as shots to the pole are big business now a days. I you do need rescue you are on the hook for the entire tab. And its expensive typically around a 1M pending on what resources are deployed. On the other hand you too can fly in a twin otter from Resolute along with about 5 45 gallons of aviation fuel, crack open a bottle of champaign, and have a drink or two at pole for about 150K out of Resolute. Some think this is fun. I tried to explain it to a neighbor like this. (aside from the rescue) Everyone wants to drive an Indy 500 car once, just one lap. This girls seems to have both the talent and the resources to not only own such a highly specialized car, she seems to have the talent to drive it competitively as well and that at 16......no one seemed to agree with me... So I just left it alone...;) /ch

Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most 14 year olds do! Jim Cal 27-3

Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She was prepared. Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a > problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who > was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money > he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had > enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 > birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 > birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can > you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to > let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most > 14 year olds do! > Jim > Cal 27-3 > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > >

http://deadspin.com/5561995/abby-sunderland-sails-into-a-media-shitstorm

Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She was prepared. Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:ma… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most 14 year olds do! Jim Cal 27-3

Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > > > Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *To*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 > *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the > world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple > knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted > it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being > seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? > > I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad > idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a > latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more > like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. > > No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor > and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She > was prepared. > > Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? > > Allen > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a >> problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who >> was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money >> he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had >> enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 >> birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 >> birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can >> you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to >> let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most >> 14 year olds do! >> Jim >> Cal 27-3 >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> > >

Not on till 10 pm EST From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > > > Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *To*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 > *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the > world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple > knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted > it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being > seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? > > I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad > idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a > latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more > like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. > > No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor > and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She > was prepared. > > Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? > > Allen > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a >> problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who >> was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money >> he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had >> enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 >> birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 >> birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can >> you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to >> let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most >> 14 year olds do! >> Jim >> Cal 27-3 >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> > >

The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. Been there done that got the tee shirt. Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Not on till 10 pm EST From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote: Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She was prepared. Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:ma… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most 14 year olds do! Jim Cal 27-3

The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > > > The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. > Been there done that got the tee shirt. > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *To*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 > > *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > Not on till 10 pm EST > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > ------------------------------ > *From: * Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > *Date: *Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 > *To: *<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Subject: *Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? > > Allen > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO >> Cheers, >> >> Timm Lessley >> (Sent from Blackberry) >> (503) 863-4019 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *To*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 >> *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland >> >> >> >> Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the >> world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple >> knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted >> it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being >> seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? >> >> I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad >> idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a >> latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more >> like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. >> >> No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor >> and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She >> was prepared. >> >> Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? >> >> Allen >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a >>> problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who >>> was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money >>> he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had >>> enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 >>> birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 >>> birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can >>> you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to >>> let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most >>> 14 year olds do! >>> Jim >>> Cal 27-3 >>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>> >>> >> > >

Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated it. Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote: The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. Been there done that got the tee shirt. Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Not on till 10 pm EST From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote: Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She was prepared. Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:ma… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most 14 year olds do! Jim Cal 27-3

I'm late to the party here but in MHO: Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK with crew of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, rudder (I know it has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife edge bow. There is no way that boat could heave to. So you have a 16 year old girl in 25 ft seas with 50 knts of wind how are you going to slow down or prevent broaching? Skip Allen could not keep his Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He has credentials. The route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech boat carbon fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and pitch polling. My $.02 Mike Robinson To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ti… [at] ch2m.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated it. Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. Been there done that got the tee shirt. Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Not on till 10 pm EST From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She was prepared. Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most 14 year olds do! Jim Cal 27-3 The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

Hi Timm, Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. You are saying that is what the idiot (Geraldo) said. I get it now. I repeat for other posters. This boat was built to sail around the world alone. It has one rudder, not two. I cannot speak for its balance but is was definitely not an untested boat. By the way, it had water ballast. I am wondering if that is why it was self righting. Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:35 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > > > Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated it. > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *To*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 > > *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone race. It > also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It had a Kevlar > Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self right of it turned > turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? > > Allen > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > >> >> >> The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. >> Been there done that got the tee shirt. >> Cheers, >> >> Timm Lessley >> (Sent from Blackberry) >> (503) 863-4019 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *To*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 >> >> *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland >> >> >> >> Not on till 10 pm EST >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> ------------------------------ >> *From: * Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> >> *Date: *Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 >> *To: *<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Subject: *Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland >> >> >> >> Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? >> >> Allen >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Timm Lessley >>> (Sent from Blackberry) >>> (503) 863-4019 >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>> *To*: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>> *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 >>> *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland >>> >>> >>> >>> Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the >>> world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple >>> knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted >>> it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being >>> seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? >>> >>> I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad >>> idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a >>> latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more >>> like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. >>> >>> No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor >>> and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She >>> was prepared. >>> >>> Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth >>> design? >>> >>> Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <ma… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a >>>> problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who >>>> was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money >>>> he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had >>>> enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 >>>> birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 >>>> birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can >>>> you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to >>>> let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most >>>> 14 year olds do! >>>> Jim >>>> Cal 27-3 >>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >

I think if it was my kid, and I felt they were up to the challenge, I would have counseled a stout, uncomplicated, bullet proof, cruising boat and not a high-tech racing machine. If there was an error in judgment I think it lays there. The same, or worse, might have happened regardless of the boat but I would have been more comfortable with a boat that didn't have to make compromises for the sake of speed. She wasn't trying to set a speed record so why a speed boat? Regards, Wayne From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> To: Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 10:02:12 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) I'm late to the party here but in MHO: Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK with crew of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, rudder (I know it has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife edge bow. There is no way that boat could heave to. So you have a 16 year old girl in 25 ft seas with 50 knts of wind how are you going to slow down or prevent broaching? Skip Allen could not keep his Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He has credentials. The route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech boat carbon fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and pitch polling. My $.02 Mike Robinson To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated it. Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > >The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. >Been there done that got the tee shirt. > >Cheers, > >Timm Lessley >(Sent from Blackberry) >(503) 863-4019 > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 > > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > >>Not on till 10 pm EST > >>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >________________________________ > >From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 >To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > >>Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? > > > >Allen > > > >On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > >> >> >>Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO >>Cheers, >> >>Timm Lessley >>(Sent from Blackberry) >>(503) 863-4019 >> >> From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >>Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland >> >> >> >>>>Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? >> >> >> >>I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. >> >> >>No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She was prepared. >> >> >>Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? >> >> >>Allen >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <mayman252000@ yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most 14 year olds do! >>>Jim >>>Cal 27-3 >>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.

My understanding was this boat was pretty stout. The guy who sailed it around the world said he was always near last into port but near first out as the others repaired their boats. The boat hit a whale in one race, it was then hit by the whale but was unhurt. That same thing sunk a J-120 off the coast here. I must admit to having the same thought about the boat but after reading about it I would no longer second guess the boat choice. I don't think these folks were rich and they needed to find a used boat built strong and I doubt any cursing boat they could find would be as strong as this boat was. I think I read they chartered it so they didn't even own it. I guess they will now. The boat was called BTC Velocity before being renamed Wild Eyes. http://www.sayerdesign.com/sayerdesign%20construction%20btc%20velocity.htm http://www.sailing.org/news/6246.php It is also interesting to me that the boat could be righted if it turned upside down. When Abby talked to the rescue party I think she said something like "This is Abby, I am all right, I have righted the boat". Perhaps a cruising boat can right itself just because it isn't so flat, I don't know, but none the less, this is impressive. If you follow the links, you can find that you right the boat by manually pumping water into one of the ballast tanks. http://www.abbysunderland.com/wild-eyes-self-rights.php Allen On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > > I think if it was my kid, and I felt they were up to the challenge, I would > have counseled a stout, uncomplicated, bullet proof, cruising boat and not a > high-tech racing machine. If there was an error in judgment I think it lays > there. The same, or worse, might have happened regardless of the boat but I > would have been more comfortable with a boat that didn't have to make > compromises for the sake of speed. She wasn't trying to set a speed record > so why a speed boat? > > Regards, > Wayne > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> > *To:* Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Sun, June 13, 2010 10:02:12 PM > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) > > > > I'm late to the party here but in MHO: > Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK with crew > of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, rudder (I know it > has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife edge bow. There is no > way that boat could heave to. So you have a 16 year old girl in 25 ft seas > with 50 knts of wind how are you going to slow down or prevent broaching? > Skip Allen could not keep his Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He > has credentials. The route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech > boat carbon fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and > pitch polling. > > My $.02 > > > *Mike Robinson* > > > > > ------------------------------ > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated it. > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > *To*: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 > *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone race. It > also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It had a Kevlar > Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self right of it turned > turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? > > Allen > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<ti… [at] ch2m.com> > > wrote: > > > > > The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. > Been there done that got the tee shirt. > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou > ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> > *To*: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou > ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> > *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 > > *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > Not on till 10 pm EST > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > ------------------------------ > *From: *Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> > *Date: *Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 > *To: *<Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> > *Subject: *Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? > > Allen > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<ti… [at] ch2m.com> > > wrote: > > > > Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou > ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> > *To*: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou > ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> > *Sent*: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 > *Subject*: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the > world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple > knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted > it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being > seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? > > I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad > idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a > latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more > like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. > > No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor > and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She > was prepared. > > Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? > > Allen > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <mayman252000@ yahoo.com<ma… [at] yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > > Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a > problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who > was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money > he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had > enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 > birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 > birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can > you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to > let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most > 14 year olds do! > Jim > Cal 27-3 > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with > Hotmail. Get busy.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5> > > >

I stand corrected on the 2 rudders I saw on the Open 40 web site. Your link below showing the boat's bottom and fine entry makes my case: wrong boat for single handed 16 year old girl in the roaring 40s. I don't care how stout that boat is it won't heave to. How are you going to be handeling 25 ft seas 50 knt winds single handed for days? Mike To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 07:36:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) My understanding was this boat was pretty stout. The guy who sailed it around the world said he was always near last into port but near first out as the others repaired their boats. The boat hit a whale in one race, it was then hit by the whale but was unhurt. That same thing sunk a J-120 off the coast here. I must admit to having the same thought about the boat but after reading about it I would no longer second guess the boat choice. I don't think these folks were rich and they needed to find a used boat built strong and I doubt any cursing boat they could find would be as strong as this boat was. I think I read they chartered it so they didn't even own it. I guess they will now. The boat was called BTC Velocity before being renamed Wild Eyes. http://www.sayerdesign.com/sayerdesign%20construction%20btc%20velocity.htm http://www.sailing.org/news/6246.php It is also interesting to me that the boat could be righted if it turned upside down. When Abby talked to the rescue party I think she said something like "This is Abby, I am all right, I have righted the boat". Perhaps a cruising boat can right itself just because it isn't so flat, I don't know, but none the less, this is impressive. If you follow the links, you can find that you right the boat by manually pumping water into one of the ballast tanks. http://www.abbysunderland.com/wild-eyes-self-rights.php Allen Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1

That's interesting because I had heard it was an Open 60, which would be too big for a kid that age. Still, the parents sent her into the Southern Ocean in winter so she could finish before her 17th birthday. MIke Kennedy On Jun 14, 2010, at 7:36 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > My understanding was this boat was pretty stout. The guy who sailed > it around the world said he was always near last into port but near > first out as the others repaired their boats. The boat hit a whale > in one race, it was then hit by the whale but was unhurt. That same > thing sunk a J-120 off the coast here. I must admit to having the > same thought about the boat but after reading about it I would no > longer second guess the boat choice. I don't think these folks were > rich and they needed to find a used boat built strong and I doubt > any cursing boat they could find would be as strong as this boat > was. I think I read they chartered it so they didn't even own it. > I guess they will now. > > > The boat was called BTC Velocity before being renamed Wild Eyes. > http://www.sayerdesign.com/sayerdesign%20construction%20btc%20velocity.htm > http://www.sailing.org/news/6246.php > > It is also interesting to me that the boat could be righted if it > turned upside down. When Abby talked to the rescue party I think > she said something like "This is Abby, I am all right, I have > righted the boat". Perhaps a cruising boat can right itself just > because it isn't so flat, I don't know, but none the less, this is > impressive. If you follow the links, you can find that you right > the boat by manually pumping water into one of the ballast tanks. > http://www.abbysunderland.com/wild-eyes-self-rights.php > > Allen > > > > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com > > wrote: > > > I think if it was my kid, and I felt they were up to the challenge, > I would have counseled a stout, uncomplicated, bullet proof, > cruising boat and not a high-tech racing machine. If there was an > error in judgment I think it lays there. The same, or worse, might > have happened regardless of the boat but I would have been more > comfortable with a boat that didn't have to make compromises for the > sake of speed. She wasn't trying to set a speed record so why a > speed boat? > > Regards, > Wayne > > > From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> > To: Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 10:02:12 PM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) > > > I'm late to the party here but in MHO: > Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK with > crew of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, rudder > (I know it has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife > edge bow. There is no way that boat could heave to. So you have a 16 > year old girl in 25 ft seas with 50 knts of wind how are you going > to slow down or prevent broaching? Skip Allen could not keep his > Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He has credentials. The > route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech boat carbon > fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and pitch > polling. > > My $.02 > > > > Mike Robinson > > > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated > it. > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone > race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It > had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self > right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? > > Allen > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > > > The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. > Been there done that got the tee shirt. > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > Not on till 10 pm EST > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 > To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? > > Allen > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > > Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO > Cheers, > > Timm Lessley > (Sent from Blackberry) > (503) 863-4019 > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around > the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived > multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived > whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on > the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem > with the boat? > > I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a > bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like > she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where > the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to > make a difference. > > No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good > sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to > question. She was prepared. > > Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth > design? > > Allen > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <mayman252000@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was > a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a > son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying > lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would > save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another > lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check > ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA > minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him > do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let > him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something > most 14 year olds do! > Jim > Cal 27-3 > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars > with Hotmail. Get busy. > > > > >

How about some historical perspective on boat preferences of the juvenile circumnavigation set: YEAR NAME AGE BOAT 1970 Robin Lee Grham 21 Lapworth 24 1987 Tania Aebi 21 Contessa 26 1996 Brian Caldwell 20 Contessa 26 1996 David Dicks 18 S&S 34 1999 Jesse Martin 18 S&S 34 2009 Zac Sunderland 17 Islander 36 2009 Michael Perham 17 Open 50 2010 Jessica Watson 16 S&S 34 2010? Laura Dekker 13 Jeaneau 38 (Gin Fizz) From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 10:36:31 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) My understanding was this boat was pretty stout. The guy who sailed it around the world said he was always near last into port but near first out as the others repaired their boats. The boat hit a whale in one race, it was then hit by the whale but was unhurt. That same thing sunk a J-120 off the coast here. I must admit to having the same thought about the boat but after reading about it I would no longer second guess the boat choice. I don't think these folks were rich and they needed to find a used boat built strong and I doubt any cursing boat they could find would be as strong as this boat was. I think I read they chartered it so they didn't even own it. I guess they will now. The boat was called BTC Velocity before being renamed Wild Eyes. http://www.sayerdes ign.com/sayerdes ign%20constructi on%20btc% 20velocity. htm http://www.sailing. org/news/ 6246.php It is also interesting to me that the boat could be righted if it turned upside down. When Abby talked to the rescue party I think she said something like "This is Abby, I am all right, I have righted the boat". Perhaps a cruising boat can right itself just because it isn't so flat, I don't know, but none the less, this is impressive. If you follow the links, you can find that you right the boat by manually pumping water into one of the ballast tanks. http://www.abbysund erland.com/ wild-eyes- self-rights. php Allen On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Wayne Gillikin <waynegillikin@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >I think if it was my kid, and I felt they were up to the challenge, I would have counseled a stout, uncomplicated, bullet proof, cruising boat and not a high-tech racing machine. If there was an error in judgment I think it lays there. The same, or worse, might have happened regardless of the boat but I would have been more comfortable with a boat that didn't have to make compromises for the sake of speed. She wasn't trying to set a speed record so why a speed boat? > >Regards, >Wayne > > > > > >> From: Michael Robinson <mikesrobinson@ hotmail.com> >To: Cal boats List <cal_boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 10:02:12 PM >Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) > > > > > >> > >> > >I'm late to the party here but in MHO: >>Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK with crew of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, rudder (I know it has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife edge bow. There is no way that boat could heave to. So you have a 16 year old girl in 25 ft seas with 50 knts of wind how are you going to slow down or prevent broaching? Skip Allen could not keep his Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He has credentials. The route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech boat carbon fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and pitch polling. >> > > >>My $.02 > > > >Mike Robinson > > > > >________________________________ >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > >From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com >Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > >Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated it. >Cheers, > >Timm Lessley >(Sent from Blackberry) >(503) 863-4019 > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > >Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > >>The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? > > > >Allen > > > > > > > >On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > >> >> >>The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. >>Been there done that got the tee shirt. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Timm Lessley >>(Sent from Blackberry) >>(503) 863-4019 >> >> From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >> >>Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 >> >> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland >> >> >> >>>>Not on till 10 pm EST >> >>>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>________________________________ >> >>From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 >>To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland >> >> >>>>Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? >> >> >> >>Allen >> >> >> >>On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>>Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO >>>Cheers, >>> >>>Timm Lessley >>>(Sent from Blackberry) >>>(503) 863-4019 >>> >>> From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >>>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> >>> >>>Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? >>> >>> >>> >>>I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. >>> >>> >>>No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She was prepared. >>> >>> >>>Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? >>> >>> >>>Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <mayman252000@ yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>>>>Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most 14 year olds do! >>>>>>>> >>>>Jim >>>>Cal 27-3 >>>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy. > > >

Skip Allan is a hero of mine. I dare call him a friend. I was in the same storm, at the same time further North with another sailor on board. We saw 54 knots and 35’ haystack seas “confused”. We were doing 13-19 knots with the storm staysail up. Skip’s boat did not fail, Skip was not hand steering his tiller pilot was. Skip’s story is below. Final comment: "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." "Citizenship in a Republic," Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910 Theodore Roosevelt From Skip: On Saturday, 8/23, 10 days after leaving Hanalei, we were halfway home to Santa Cruz with 1190 miles to go. We had passed the Pacific High, and were running in the Westerlies at latitude 38-38 x longitude 147 -17. So far, the passage had been going well, my sixth return passage from Hawaii aboard WILDFLOWER. But an ominous note on the thrice daily weather fax charts was the notation “GALE” between our position and the Pacific Coast. I began to plan for this possible gale by increasing latitude, slowing down, and closely monitoring projected GRIB files out to 144 hours. It appeared from all forecasts that we needed to slow down at least 48 hours to let the gale ahead abate. However, it is against my instincts to try and slow a boat down, and so with difficulty I reefed the main and dropped the jib in 8 knots of wind, reducing speed to a sedate 3.5 knots in smooth seas. On Wednesday, 8/27, the morning GRIB file showed the area of most wind ahead was between 124 and 128 degrees, with no weather abatement until at least Monday, 9/1 earliest. Dwight on NA NA, 450 miles ahead, had reported gusts of 42.5 knots from the north between latitude 127-128 and having to run off under storm jib 80 miles. NA NA reported 20 foot seas the previous night near 37 x 124-30. I hoped that WILDFLOWER, by being at the latitude 40 degrees, would allow us to run off 180 miles to the latitude of Santa Cruz, should conditions worsen. On Friday, 8/29, at sunset near 40 x 130, conditions began to rapidly deteriorate. I changed to the #4 (75% short hoist) and storm staysail, dropping the main completely. The following day, Saturday, 8/30, with Santa Cruz 365 miles on a bearing of 095 T, we were having to run off due south (180 T) in winds 30-35 knots. By 1530, the sail combination proved too much, and I dropped the #4, flying the storm staysail (39 sq.feet) and towing a 30” diameter metal hooped drogue. It was uncomfortable, windy, and rolly that night, with the cockpit filling about every five minutes, and the boat being knocked down to 70 degrees at least half a dozen times. WILDFLOWER’s shallow cockpit and oversize drains allowed full drainage in about 90 seconds, and this was not a problem. The electric Auto Helm 1000+ tiller pilot was doing an amazing job steering, as it was being continuously drenched, even submerged. The Sail-O-Mat windvane was useless preventing or correcting breaking wave induced broaches and I retracted its oar to avoid fouling the drogue rode. On Sunday, 8/31, the wind was 30-35 with a confused wave train from the NW, N, and NE. At 0915 I winched in the drogue to change from a hi-tech spinny sheet to stretchy nylon anchor line. Unfortunately, I found the drogue had split, and was no longer effective. I deployed my spare drogue, but without a metal hoop, it would periodically collapse astern in a breaking crest. At noon, it looked like the gale was lessening. I left the safety of the cabin, and with two safety harnesses affixed to the windward rail, began to hand steer eastward on a reach with the #4. It was mogul sailing at its best, having to radically bear away to avoid hissing 8-12′ breaking crests on the top of 15-30 foot seas. At sunset I again went below with the Auto Helm tiller pilot continuing to steer nicely under #4 jib. Not long after, the wind came on to blow from the NNW, and the seas began to build further. That night I stayed suited up below with full foulies, headlamp, and harness, ready to dash out the hatch and take the tiller if the autopilot failed, and we subsequently rounded up. In addition, I dropped the storm staysail, as we were running too fast at 6-9 knots. Under bare poles DDW, the speed was better at 5-7 knots. What followed ultimately played into the following day’s events. During the long night, my third in this particular gale, breaking crests would poop the boat about every five minutes, filling the cockpit and surging against the companionway hatch boards. Even though I had gone to lengths for many years to insure fire hose watertight integrity of the companionway hatch, I found the power of the breaking wave crests slamming the boat would cause water to forcefully spray around the edges of the hatchboards and into the cabin. During the long wait for daylight, I had more than enough time to ponder what might happen if the autopilot was damaged or was washed off its mount. I had two spare tiller pilots. But it would take several minutes, exposed in the cockpit, on my knees, to hook up a replacement in the cockpit, on a dark night, when the boat was being periodically knocked down and the cockpit swept. In addition, I pondered the fate of the DAISY that was lost in the spring’s Lightship Race, when presumably a large breaking wave crushed and sank DAISY. I also reminded myself I was responsible for not only my own life, but was also a family care giver at home. There was no doubt that if WILDFLOWER’s tiller pilot was lost that we would round up and be at the mercy of these breaking waves, some of which I estimate to be in the vicinity of 25-35 feet, and as big as I hadn’t seen since the ‘79 Fastnet Race storm on IMP. The anxiety and stress of this night, with the whine of the wind in the rigging, the wave crests slamming into the hatch boards, and the 70 degree knockdowns that would launch me across the cabin, created serious doubts that we could continue this for another night, much less the 3-4 days the conditions were expected to continue. The boat was fine, and had suffered no serious damage yet. My physical health was OK, but I could see with minimum sleep that my decision making could be beginning to be compromised At 0715 the following morning, Monday, 9/1, I Sat phoned my long time sailing friend, ham radio contact, router, navigator and weatherman, Joe Buck in Redondo Beach. Joe and I had maintained 2x/day ham radio schedule since leaving Hanalei, and he had instant internet access to all forecast weather and wave charts. I explained the current situation to Joe: that I’d had a difficult night, and wasn’t sure I could safely continue. Joe’s weather info had the highest wind and wave on my current drift southward continuing for at least another three days, with continuing gale force winds and 18-22′ significant wave height. I asked Joe for help in some difficult decision making I had to do. First, would he phone San Francisco Coast Guard Search and Rescue (SAR), and query what the protocol is for asking for assistance, all the while making sure the CG understood I was not in trouble and was not asking for help at this time. (Coast Guard NMC Pt. Reyes, Kodiak, and Hono were not answering my radio calls on their published safety and working 4, 6, 8, and 12 mg frequencies, both simplex and duplex.) Joe called back an hour later (0830) on ham radio 40 meters and said that Lt. Saxon at SAR reported no military assets within 200 miles or 20 hours, that WILDFLOWER was 200 miles beyond helo range, but that there was an inbound container ship TORONTO coming in my direction at an undetermined distance. Joe helped me to understand if the boat were lost, I would likely be lost also. But that if I left WILDFLOWER proactively, that only the boat would be lost. I told Joe of my hesitation of putting my life in the hands of a possibly foreign crew on a big commercial ship during a transfer off WILDFLOWER in these conditions, especially at night. We agreed that a decision had to be arrived at soon, before 1130, and before TORONTO passed by. I spent the next hour, sitting on the cabin sole on my life raft, debating whether to ask for assistance in leaving my beloved WILDFLOWER. “FLEUR” was my home, consort, and magic carpet that I had built 34 years ago. I cried, pounded my fist, looked out through the hatch numerous times at the passing wave mountains, remembered all the good times I had shared with WILDFLOWER. And came to a decision. At 1115 I called Joe back and told him to again call Lt. Saxon at SAR and inform her that I was asking for assistance. Joe called back and informed me that TORONTO was 5-6 hours away, and that SAR needed to hear from me directly as to my request. At 1200, like a gopher popping out of its hole, I slid the hatch open to get a clear Satphone signal, and called SAR. Lt. Saxon already knew my details and position, and only asked “what are you requesting?” I replied, “I am asking for assistance to be removed from my boat.” We kept the conversation short and to the point, due to my exposure topsides with the Satphone. She said the MSC TORONTO would be requested to divert, that I was not to trigger the EPIRB, but that I was to take the EPIRB with me when I left WILDFLOWER. Contrary to published reports, at no time did I call “PAN PAN,” and no com schedule was kept with the Coast Guard, although I did check in with Joe every 30 minutes on ham radio. Lt. Saxon also said that if I left my boat, she would be considered “derelict” and broadcast as a hazard to navigation. I assured her I would not leave my boat floating. An hour later, at 1300, WILDFLOWER’s AIS alarm rang. MSC TORONTO was showing 30 miles away, and closing at 23.4 knots from the south west. I had to do some fast planning. But with no idea how the transfer would be made (jump, swim, climb, hoist?) I didn’t know what I could pack into my bag, bags, or backpack. I decided on my documents, wallet and and passport, laptop, camera, cellphone and sat phone, logbook, EPIRB and a change of clothes and shoes. All this I bagged into waterproof bags. And in a moment of whimsy, decided to try and offload the two Single Handed Transpac perpetual trophies, as they had 30 year historical and sentimental value to our Race. At eight miles, the captain of the MSC TORONTO rang on the VHF. He spoke perfect English, and as I had a visual, directed him to alter 20 degrees to starboard to intercept. He explained his ship was over 1,000 feet long, that he would lay her parallel to the waves and make a lee at a forward speed of Slow Ahead (6 knots). The captain also explained that I would board his ship from a rope ladder that led to the pilot’s door, on the aft starboard side. I asked if he could slow to a speed between 3-4 knots, and he willingly agreed to try. At five miles, a sharp eyed lookout on MSC TORONTO sighted WILDFLOWER ahead. But MSC TORONTO’s radar and the rest of her bridge crew did not sight WILDFLOWER until 2.5 miles under these conditions. At 1415 hours, one of the world’s biggest container ships was bearing down on WILDFLOWER, less than five boat lengths (125 feet) dead ahead, the huge bulb bow scending 20 feet and making a five foot breaking wave. With my heart in my throat, I motored down the starboard side of a gigantic black wall, made a U turn, and pulled alongside the pilot’s door and rope ladder. The crew threw a heaving line, and in the next five minutes we transferred three bags. Knowing I was next, I jumped below decks, said a final quick goodbye, and pulled the already unclamped hose off the engine salt water intake thru hull. Back on deck, I reached for the bottom rung of the Jacob’s Ladder, which was alternately at head height, and 10 feet out of reach, depending on the ship’s roll. I grabbed hold, jumped, and did a pull up onto the ladder, and climbed up, wearing a 15 pound backpack with my most valuable positions and EPIRB. At 1429 hours, on Monday, 9/1, 2008, at position 35-17 x 126-38, the MSC TORONTO resumed its voyage to Long Beach, leaving WILDFLOWER alone to bang and scrape her way down the aft quarter of the ship and disappear under the stern. I watched, but could barely see through my tears. Four hours and 100 miles SE of where I left WILDFLOWER I was on the bridge of MSC TORONTO watching the anemometer True Wind Speed graph continuing to register 32-35 knots. From 140 feet off the water, the swells below still looked impressive, and the ship was rolling enough to send spray above the top containers on the foreward part of the ship For the next 24 hours aboard MSC TORONTO (1065′ LOA, too wide for Panama) I was treated with the utmost kindness and compassion by Capt. Ivo Hruza and his 24 man crew. We stood watch together, ate together, told stories, viewed family photo albums, discussed the world situation, toured the ship and engine room (12 cylinder, 93,360 horsepower diesel). By the time we came down the Santa Barbara Channel and docked at Long Beach, I felt a part of this happy crew of 6 nationalities. I could not have been assisted by a better or more professionally manned ship. On Tuesday afternoon, after clearing customs and immigration aboard, I shook hands with each and every crew member. And descended the gangway alone, to meet Joe, sister Marilee, and begin New Beginnings. I will never forget WILDFLOWER. She took a beating in this gale. She never let me down, and took me to amazing places, where we met wonderful people and made new friends. In this time of loss, a most wonderful thing is happening: many loved ones, friends, interested parties, and people I’ve never met are closing a circle of love around the mourning and celebration of WILDFLOWER. Time will heal a broken heart. I look forward to seeing everyone at Carla and Mark’s. I apologize in advance if at times I have to look away and wipe my tears. Treasure Each Day, Skip From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> To: Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 10:02:12 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) I'm late to the party here but in MHO: Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK with crew of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, rudder (I know it has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife edge bow. There is no way that boat could heave to. So you have a 16 year old girl in 25 ft seas with 50 knts of wind how are you going to slow down or prevent broaching? Skip Allen could not keep his Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He has credentials. The route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech boat carbon fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and pitch polling. My $.02 Mike Robinson To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com> From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<http://ch2m.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated it. Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote: The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. Been there done that got the tee shirt. Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Not on till 10 pm EST From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote: Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO Cheers, Timm Lessley (Sent from Blackberry) (503) 863-4019 From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem with the boat? I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to make a difference. No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to question. She was prepared. Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth design? Allen On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <mayman252000@ yahoo.com<mailto:ma… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something most 14 year olds do! Jim Cal 27-3 The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5>

A small point but it was not the Southern Ocean, it was the Indian Ocean. The Southern Ocean is like sailing at the south end of Alaska. She was like just north of Los Angeles. The racers sail more like in Washington I think -- not sure on this point. However, I guess people call it the Southern Ocean even though it technically isn't. She may have been in the Southern Ocean, or at least very close to it when she went around South America but she made that fine. South America goes to -55 degrees and she was at about -35 degrees when rescued. Another point that I find curious. It was not her parents that picked the course. She had a professional weather router that I would assume picked the course for her. But, was the choice of routes a good one. She could have gone a lot more north in the Indian Ocean. She wasn't trying for any record as she had already stopped so I assume the record thing was lost. I remember people on this board criticizing her for stopping to fix the auto pilot and thus giving up on the record. Imagine if she had followed that advice what people would be saying. Allen On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > That's interesting because I had heard it was an Open 60, which would > be too big for a kid that age. Still, the parents sent her into the > Southern Ocean in winter so she could finish before her 17th birthday. > > MIke Kennedy > > > On Jun 14, 2010, at 7:36 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > My understanding was this boat was pretty stout. The guy who sailed > > it around the world said he was always near last into port but near > > first out as the others repaired their boats. The boat hit a whale > > in one race, it was then hit by the whale but was unhurt. That same > > thing sunk a J-120 off the coast here. I must admit to having the > > same thought about the boat but after reading about it I would no > > longer second guess the boat choice. I don't think these folks were > > rich and they needed to find a used boat built strong and I doubt > > any cursing boat they could find would be as strong as this boat > > was. I think I read they chartered it so they didn't even own it. > > I guess they will now. > > > > > > The boat was called BTC Velocity before being renamed Wild Eyes. > > > http://www.sayerdesign.com/sayerdesign%20construction%20btc%20velocity.htm > > http://www.sailing.org/news/6246.php > > > > It is also interesting to me that the boat could be righted if it > > turned upside down. When Abby talked to the rescue party I think > > she said something like "This is Abby, I am all right, I have > > righted the boat". Perhaps a cruising boat can right itself just > > because it isn't so flat, I don't know, but none the less, this is > > impressive. If you follow the links, you can find that you right > > the boat by manually pumping water into one of the ballast tanks. > > http://www.abbysunderland.com/wild-eyes-self-rights.php > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > I think if it was my kid, and I felt they were up to the challenge, > > I would have counseled a stout, uncomplicated, bullet proof, > > cruising boat and not a high-tech racing machine. If there was an > > error in judgment I think it lays there. The same, or worse, might > > have happened regardless of the boat but I would have been more > > comfortable with a boat that didn't have to make compromises for the > > sake of speed. She wasn't trying to set a speed record so why a > > speed boat? > > > > Regards, > > Wayne > > > > > > From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> > > To: Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 10:02:12 PM > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) > > > > > > I'm late to the party here but in MHO: > > Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK with > > crew of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, rudder > > (I know it has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife > > edge bow. There is no way that boat could heave to. So you have a 16 > > year old girl in 25 ft seas with 50 knts of wind how are you going > > to slow down or prevent broaching? Skip Allen could not keep his > > Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He has credentials. The > > route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech boat carbon > > fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and pitch > > polling. > > > > My $.02 > > > > > > > > Mike Robinson > > > > > > > > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > > > Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated > > it. > > Cheers, > > > > Timm Lessley > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone > > race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It > > had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self > > right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. > > Been there done that got the tee shirt. > > Cheers, > > > > Timm Lessley > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 > > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > Not on till 10 pm EST > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 > > To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? > > > > Allen > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > > > > > Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO > > Cheers, > > > > Timm Lessley > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around > > the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived > > multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived > > whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on > > the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem > > with the boat? > > > > I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a > > bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like > > she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where > > the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to > > make a difference. > > > > No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good > > sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to > > question. She was prepared. > > > > Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth > > design? > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <mayman252000@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was > > a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a > > son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying > > lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would > > save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another > > lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check > > ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA > > minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him > > do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let > > him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something > > most 14 year olds do! > > Jim > > Cal 27-3 > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars > > with Hotmail. Get busy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

I doubt the professional weather router made the decision to have her cross Cape of Good Hope or 35 degrees south in winter. That was the parents' decision before she started. The Skip Allan story (Thanks, Timm) is an excellent warning about single handing. If he had had another helmsman, the boat would be in its slip in Santa Cruz. I've been in bad weather although not for nearly as long. In the 1977 La Paz Race we had 12 hours of 60+ knots. The anemometer pegged at 60. The seas were above the spreaders of the Yankee 38 but it was over shortly after dawn. We also had six people and could stand watches. It was so hot that we stood watch in bathing suits and life jacket-safety harness combinations. Mike Kennedy On Jun 14, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > A small point but it was not the Southern Ocean, it was the Indian > Ocean. The Southern Ocean is like sailing at the south end of > Alaska. She was like just north of Los Angeles. The racers sail > more like in Washington I think -- not sure on this point. However, > I guess people call it the Southern Ocean even though it technically > isn't. She may have been in the Southern Ocean, or at least very > close to it when she went around South America but she made that > fine. South America goes to -55 degrees and she was at about -35 > degrees when rescued. > > > Another point that I find curious. It was not her parents that > picked the course. She had a professional weather router that I > would assume picked the course for her. But, was the choice of > routes a good one. She could have gone a lot more north in the > Indian Ocean. She wasn't trying for any record as she had already > stopped so I assume the record thing was lost. I remember people on > this board criticizing her for stopping to fix the auto pilot and > thus giving up on the record. Imagine if she had followed that > advice what people would be saying. > > Allen > > > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Michael Kennedy > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > That's interesting because I had heard it was an Open 60, which would > be too big for a kid that age. Still, the parents sent her into the > Southern Ocean in winter so she could finish before her 17th birthday. > > MIke Kennedy > > > On Jun 14, 2010, at 7:36 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > My understanding was this boat was pretty stout. The guy who sailed > > it around the world said he was always near last into port but near > > first out as the others repaired their boats. The boat hit a whale > > in one race, it was then hit by the whale but was unhurt. That same > > thing sunk a J-120 off the coast here. I must admit to having the > > same thought about the boat but after reading about it I would no > > longer second guess the boat choice. I don't think these folks were > > rich and they needed to find a used boat built strong and I doubt > > any cursing boat they could find would be as strong as this boat > > was. I think I read they chartered it so they didn't even own it. > > I guess they will now. > > > > > > The boat was called BTC Velocity before being renamed Wild Eyes. > > http://www.sayerdesign.com/sayerdesign%20construction%20btc%20velocity.htm > > http://www.sailing.org/news/6246.php > > > > It is also interesting to me that the boat could be righted if it > > turned upside down. When Abby talked to the rescue party I think > > she said something like "This is Abby, I am all right, I have > > righted the boat". Perhaps a cruising boat can right itself just > > because it isn't so flat, I don't know, but none the less, this is > > impressive. If you follow the links, you can find that you right > > the boat by manually pumping water into one of the ballast tanks. > > http://www.abbysunderland.com/wild-eyes-self-rights.php > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > I think if it was my kid, and I felt they were up to the challenge, > > I would have counseled a stout, uncomplicated, bullet proof, > > cruising boat and not a high-tech racing machine. If there was an > > error in judgment I think it lays there. The same, or worse, might > > have happened regardless of the boat but I would have been more > > comfortable with a boat that didn't have to make compromises for the > > sake of speed. She wasn't trying to set a speed record so why a > > speed boat? > > > > Regards, > > Wayne > > > > > > From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> > > To: Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 10:02:12 PM > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) > > > > > > I'm late to the party here but in MHO: > > Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK with > > crew of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, rudder > > (I know it has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife > > edge bow. There is no way that boat could heave to. So you have a 16 > > year old girl in 25 ft seas with 50 knts of wind how are you going > > to slow down or prevent broaching? Skip Allen could not keep his > > Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He has credentials. The > > route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech boat carbon > > fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and pitch > > polling. > > > > My $.02 > > > > > > > > Mike Robinson > > > > > > > > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > > > Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I repeated > > it. > > Cheers, > > > > Timm Lessley > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone > > race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. It > > had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self > > right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. > > Been there done that got the tee shirt. > > Cheers, > > > > Timm Lessley > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 > > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > Not on till 10 pm EST > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 > > To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? > > > > Allen > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: > > > > > > Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO > > Cheers, > > > > Timm Lessley > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around > > the world single handed before. It was self righting. It survived > > multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived > > whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay on > > the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem > > with the boat? > > > > I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter was a > > bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like > > she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles where > > the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to > > make a difference. > > > > No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good > > sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to > > question. She was prepared. > > > > Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth > > design? > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <mayman252000@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat was > > a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I have a > > son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying > > lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would > > save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another > > lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check > > ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA > > minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him > > do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to let > > him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something > > most 14 year olds do! > > Jim > > Cal 27-3 > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars > > with Hotmail. Get busy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Still, is this boat a "proper" offshore cruising vessel? I mean built for offshore sailing in safety and "comfort"? Sounds like a lightweight, fast racer to me (yes, built for "offshore" racing, but is it really a "seaworthy" boat?). Was speed given more importance than seakindliness? Remember, Robin Lee Graham left California (at 16 years old) in a 10 year-old (at the time) LAPWORTH 24, and sailed about 3/4 of the way around the world in relative safety (probably could have gone full-circle...but with Nat Geo $$ for his story upgraded to a 33' Allied for rest of trip). He was dismasted twice with the L24, But sailed to his next port under jury-rig both times. No GPS, no SATNAV, just a sextent and chronometer plus charts. One last comment, like Robin Graham, Abby is not a "run-of-the-mill" teenager, she probably had more sailing experience in her first 16 years than I've had in my 44+ summers of sailing (I think I started going out on Dad's boat my second summer, at just over 18 months old?) Contrast this with Tania Aebi, who set off in 1985 on a 26' sailboat (Contessa 26) as an alternative to attending college, she had a good offshore boat, and at 18 had plenty of sailing time (not sure how much helm time though?), she made it, but had some interesting tales! Abby Sunderland obviously had the sailing skills to make this voyage, I suspect a lesser sailor would never have made it so far. However, I would think that a more "traditional" design (maybe a CAL 40?) would have been safer. I still vote for a smaller, full-keel design for an offshore voyage like this, instead of an extreme offshore racing boat. My $0.02 worth Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 20:04:38 -0700 Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> writes: Hi Timm, Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. You are saying that is what the idiot (Geraldo) said. I get it now. I repeat for other posters. This boat was built to sail around the world alone. It has one rudder, not two. I cannot speak for its balance but is was definitely not an untested boat. By the way, it had water ballast. I am wondering if that is why it was self righting. Allen Top MBA Programs Get Your Dream Job With An MBA. 100% Online. No GMAT Required! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c1702829f14318173st03duc

I was sailing/motor sailing into Cat Harbor Sat nite after being becalmed off Palos Verdes, and motoring across the San Pedro Channel with less than four gallons to make it there, and to the start from Cat Harbor to Eagle Rock for Sunday's race back (Puma Island, so naturally it's Cat Harbor) in darkness, low clouds and haze by myself (my first mate had thrown in the towel and gone to sleep below) I tried sailing as much as possible when a sporadic breeze came up as I approached the West End, still from the south, but got nearly no where for two hours..I think there was a strong adverse current, as my GPS showed me going a knot slower than usual under power crossing the channel. It was pretty spooky moonless night and made me appreciate the feat of any and all single handers. It was freezing cold despite having t shirt, shirt, sweater, and foulies, plus an old leather jacket on top. Freezing cold despite being mid June? We puttered into the harbor at past one AM feeling our way past mooring buoys and unlit boats..fortunately I had been able to make out the blinking light of the invisible harbor from several miles out.... We missed the grand BBQ at the Del Rey YC compound with unlimited free drinks and disco party at the Harbor Reef Bar (I was hoping to see the very drunk much younger gal who passed out drunk while dancing with me a few years ago; she said she thought I was a gynecologist[?!]) At that point this newly old man was totally exhausted and just wanting to sack out after anchoring. (you know you're old when the idea of sacking out is far more appealing than the prospect of meeting up with a beautiful stranger) The race back..we barely made it to the start on fumes and luckily they delayed the race for lack of wind and let us check in by radio....we took second place in cruising class against a Catalina 470 that beat us by 9 minutes, but somehow took a 132 handicap. Funny, cause the factory rated it at 90 PHRF when it came out in 1998. Oh well. No more under 30' cruising class this year. The winds built up to 10 to 14 knots, and, after nailing the start and leading the fleet for 15 minutes as we left the island, ..we had a mostly broad or reach the whole way..great fun. Jerry --- On Mon, 6/14/10, Rodney G. Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> wrote: From: Rodney G. Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 14, 2010, 9:21 PM Still, is this boat a "proper" offshore cruising vessel? I mean built for offshore sailing in safety and "comfort"? Sounds like a lightweight, fast racer to me (yes, built for "offshore" racing, but is it really a "seaworthy" boat?). Was speed given more importance than seakindliness? Remember, Robin Lee Graham left California (at 16 years old) in a 10 year-old (at the time) LAPWORTH 24, and sailed about 3/4 of the way around the world in relative safety (probably could have gone full-circle. ..but with Nat Geo $$ for his story upgraded to a 33' Allied for rest of trip). He was dismasted twice with the L24, But sailed to his next port under jury-rig both times. No GPS, no SATNAV, just a sextent and chronometer plus charts. One last comment, like Robin Graham, Abby is not a "run-of-the- mill" teenager, she probably had more sailing experience in her first 16 years than I've had in my 44+ summers of sailing (I think I started going out on Dad's boat my second summer, at just over 18 months old?) Contrast this with Tania Aebi, who set off in 1985 on a 26' sailboat (Contessa 26) as an alternative to attending college, she had a good offshore boat, and at 18 had plenty of sailing time (not sure how much helm time though?), she made it, but had some interesting tales! Abby Sunderland obviously had the sailing skills to make this voyage, I suspect a lesser sailor would never have made it so far. However, I would think that a more "traditional" design (maybe a CAL 40?) would have been safer. I still vote for a smaller, full-keel design for an offshore voyage like this, instead of an extreme offshore racing boat. My $0.02 worth Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 20:04:38 -0700 Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> writes: Hi Timm, Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. You are saying that is what the idiot (Geraldo) said. I get it now. I repeat for other posters. This boat was built to sail around the world alone. It has one rudder, not two. I cannot speak for its balance but is was definitely not an untested boat. By the way, it had water ballast. I am wondering if that is why it was self righting. Allen ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ Top MBA Programs Get Your Dream Job With An MBA. 100% Online. No GMAT Required! FloridaTechOnlineMB A.com

I'd like to add that at a Caltopia in Richmond a few years back, Skip Allen also mentioned that he could have shipped Wildflower home for about $6000. He was wise to get off when he did because being cold and wet like he was could have sooner or later made him irrational. HH From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 9:35:47 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Final Chapter) Skip Allan is a hero of mine. I dare call him a friend. I was in the same storm, at the same time further North with another sailor on board. We saw 54 knots and 35’ haystack seas “confused”. We were doing 13-19 knots with the storm staysail up. Skip’s boat did not fail, Skip was not hand steering his tiller pilot was. Skip’s story is below. Final comment: "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out howthe strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." "Citizenship in a Republic," Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910 Theodore Roosevelt

A note from the weather router has been posted. I have copied it below. See http://soloround.blogspot.com/ for more stuff. I guess we will have to wait to see what happened to cause the dismasting. As we see from Timm's post of Skip Allan, this kind of stuff can happen to anyone. Allen

In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. Mike Kennedy On Jun 15, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > A note from the weather router has been posted. I have copied it > below. See http://soloround.blogspot.com/ for more stuff. I guess > we will have to wait to see what happened to cause the dismasting. > As we see from Timm's post of Skip Allan, this kind of stuff can > happen to anyone. > > > Allen > > > From meteorologist Ken Campbell: > > 1st, we would not have been involved in this project if we thought > this was a publicity stunt or Abby was not capable > > 2nd, Abby more than proved that she was fully capable, so if > everybody agreed to continue, we were on board with you > > 3rd, we have refused many projects and clients - we have over 6000 > clients, but we will not work with somebody that is not capable or > does something we consider too dangerous > > We were late crossing the Indian Ocean, but I felt Abby was fully > capable. Do we handle sailors crossing the North Atlantic in > December? Sure, but they follow our rules and we push them as far S > as possible and avoid headwinds. We tried to keep her as far N as > possible, but there is such a thing as too far N and the worst > situation of all would be headwinds and we did avoid those. > > Very few people have ever forecast weather there (the southern > Indian Ocean), let alone route sailboats. This storm was not unusual > for that location, for that time of year and the strategy was the > best there could be for that situation > > You are great, loving and caring parents, with a remarkable daughter > and most of all, she is safe to try again! She is a fine example of > the true human spirit! That is what should be celebrated, not > criticized. By the way, she is 16, not 8. > > > > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Michael Kennedy > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > I doubt the professional weather router made the decision to have her > cross Cape of Good Hope or 35 degrees south in winter. That was the > parents' decision before she started. > > The Skip Allan story (Thanks, Timm) is an excellent warning about > single handing. If he had had another helmsman, the boat would be in > its slip in Santa Cruz. I've been in bad weather although not for > nearly as long. In the 1977 La Paz Race we had 12 hours of 60+ knots. > The anemometer pegged at 60. The seas were above the spreaders of the > Yankee 38 but it was over shortly after dawn. We also had six people > and could stand watches. It was so hot that we stood watch in bathing > suits and life jacket-safety harness combinations. > > Mike Kennedy > > > On Jun 14, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > A small point but it was not the Southern Ocean, it was the Indian > > Ocean. The Southern Ocean is like sailing at the south end of > > Alaska. She was like just north of Los Angeles. The racers sail > > more like in Washington I think -- not sure on this point. However, > > I guess people call it the Southern Ocean even though it technically > > isn't. She may have been in the Southern Ocean, or at least very > > close to it when she went around South America but she made that > > fine. South America goes to -55 degrees and she was at about -35 > > degrees when rescued. > > > > > > Another point that I find curious. It was not her parents that > > picked the course. She had a professional weather router that I > > would assume picked the course for her. But, was the choice of > > routes a good one. She could have gone a lot more north in the > > Indian Ocean. She wasn't trying for any record as she had already > > stopped so I assume the record thing was lost. I remember people on > > this board criticizing her for stopping to fix the auto pilot and > > thus giving up on the record. Imagine if she had followed that > > advice what people would be saying. > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Michael Kennedy > > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > That's interesting because I had heard it was an Open 60, which > would > > be too big for a kid that age. Still, the parents sent her into the > > Southern Ocean in winter so she could finish before her 17th > birthday. > > > > MIke Kennedy > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2010, at 7:36 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > > > My understanding was this boat was pretty stout. The guy who > sailed > > > it around the world said he was always near last into port but > near > > > first out as the others repaired their boats. The boat hit a > whale > > > in one race, it was then hit by the whale but was unhurt. That > same > > > thing sunk a J-120 off the coast here. I must admit to having the > > > same thought about the boat but after reading about it I would no > > > longer second guess the boat choice. I don't think these folks > were > > > rich and they needed to find a used boat built strong and I doubt > > > any cursing boat they could find would be as strong as this boat > > > was. I think I read they chartered it so they didn't even own it. > > > I guess they will now. > > > > > > > > > The boat was called BTC Velocity before being renamed Wild Eyes. > > > http://www.sayerdesign.com/sayerdesign%20construction%20btc%20velocity.htm > > > http://www.sailing.org/news/6246.php > > > > > > It is also interesting to me that the boat could be righted if it > > > turned upside down. When Abby talked to the rescue party I think > > > she said something like "This is Abby, I am all right, I have > > > righted the boat". Perhaps a cruising boat can right itself just > > > because it isn't so flat, I don't know, but none the less, this is > > > impressive. If you follow the links, you can find that you right > > > the boat by manually pumping water into one of the ballast tanks. > > > http://www.abbysunderland.com/wild-eyes-self-rights.php > > > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think if it was my kid, and I felt they were up to the > challenge, > > > I would have counseled a stout, uncomplicated, bullet proof, > > > cruising boat and not a high-tech racing machine. If there was an > > > error in judgment I think it lays there. The same, or worse, > might > > > have happened regardless of the boat but I would have been more > > > comfortable with a boat that didn't have to make compromises for > the > > > sake of speed. She wasn't trying to set a speed record so why a > > > speed boat? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> > > > To: Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 10:02:12 PM > > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) > > > > > > > > > I'm late to the party here but in MHO: > > > Boat is flat bottom racer with no forward buoyancy. Probably OK > with > > > crew of big men. Look at Open 40 website and see flat bottom, > rudder > > > (I know it has 2) out of the water on a 15 degree heel and knife > > > edge bow. There is no way that boat could heave to. So you have > a 16 > > > year old girl in 25 ft seas with 50 knts of wind how are you > going > > > to slow down or prevent broaching? Skip Allen could not keep his > > > Hawkfarm from danger without hand steering. He has credentials. > The > > > route, the boat, the time of year: All wrong. High tech boat > carbon > > > fiber, crash bulkheads don't mean much if you are rolling and > pitch > > > polling. > > > > > > My $.02 > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Robinson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com > > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:35:07 -0600 > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > > > > > > > Geraldo said that. You asked to summarize w idiot G said. I > repeated > > > it. > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Timm Lessley > > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:26:05 2010 > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > > > > The boat took second place in 2002 in the round the world alone > > > race. It also took second in the 2007 Florida to Bermuda race. > It > > > had a Kevlar Fiberglass hull with crash bulkheads and would self > > > right of it turned turtle. Why do you say it was unproven? > > > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The boat was unproven and not able to go around the world. > > > Been there done that got the tee shirt. > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Timm Lessley > > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 19:04:00 2010 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > > > > Not on till 10 pm EST > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> > > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:35:41 -0700 > > > To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > > > > Can anyone summarize what the idiot said? > > > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Geraldo is an idiot. IMHO > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Timm Lessley > > > (Sent from Blackberry) > > > (503) 863-4019 > > > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com> > > > Sent: Sun Jun 13 12:14:35 2010 > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland > > > > > > > > > Too easy to criticize when things go wrong. That boat went around > > > the world single handed before. It was self righting. It > survived > > > multiple knock downs before being dismasted. The hull survived > > > whatever dismasted it. It didn't sink and Abby was able to stay > on > > > the boat without being seriously injured. So what is the problem > > > with the boat? > > > > > > I have read that her traveling in the southern ocean in winter > was a > > > bad idea, which clearly after the fact it was. But it looks like > > > she was at a latitude equivalent to just north of Los Angeles > where > > > the racers go more like the Oregon Washington border. That has to > > > make a difference. > > > > > > No matter if it was foolish or brave, she is obviously a very good > > > sailor and was clearly up to the task. That should not be open to > > > question. She was prepared. > > > > > > Again, what is wrong with the boat -- besides not being a Lapworth > > > design? > > > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <mayman252000@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > Glad she is safe! Geraldo on Fox News,sailor himself, says boat > was > > > a problem and will cover on his show tonight. Her age? Well I > have a > > > son who was flying planes before driving a car! He started flying > > > lessons(with money he earned scooping ice cream) at 14. He would > > > save and as soon as he had enough money he would take another > > > lesson. He flew solo one day after his 16 birthday and did check > > > ride for private license a week after his 17 birthday. Both FAA > > > minimum ages. When he started many people said how can you let him > > > do that,he is so young! It was his passion and still is, had to > let > > > him go for it. Not as dangerous as Indian Ocean but not something > > > most 14 year olds do! > > > Jim > > > Cal 27-3 > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple > calendars > > > with Hotmail. Get busy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

I am just a stupid bay sailor. There are many things I do not understand. One is why they call latitude -35 the roaring 40's. Another is why people call the Indian Ocean the Southern Ocean when there is another ocean with that name and it is another 25 degrees south. I cannot tell if a boat can heave to by looking at it. I don't even know that heaving to is the best course of action as opposed to following the advice she got to drag a drogue out the stern and sail downwind. I also don't understand why a boat built specifically to sail solo around the world is so obviously the wrong boat. I guess I will rely on wiser people to tell me what is going on. Then maybe some day I will also find out what happened. Allen On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com > wrote: > > > I stand corrected on the 2 rudders I saw on the Open 40 web site. Your link > below showing the boat's bottom and fine entry makes my case: wrong boat for > single handed 16 year old girl in the roaring 40s. I don't care how stout > that boat is it won't heave to. How are you going to be handeling 25 ft seas > 50 knt winds single handed for days? > > *Mike* > ** > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com > Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 07:36:31 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) > > > > My understanding was this boat was pretty stout. The guy who sailed it > around the world said he was always near last into port but near first out > as the others repaired their boats. The boat hit a whale in one race, it > was then hit by the whale but was unhurt. That same thing sunk a J-120 off > the coast here. I must admit to having the same thought about the boat but > after reading about it I would no longer second guess the boat choice. I > don't think these folks were rich and they needed to find a used boat built > strong and I doubt any cursing boat they could find would be as strong as > this boat was. I think I read they chartered it so they didn't even own it. > I guess they will now. > > The boat was called BTC Velocity before being renamed Wild Eyes. > http://www.sayerdesign.com/sayerdesign%20construction%20btc%20velocity.htm > http://www.sailing.org/news/6246.php > > It is also interesting to me that the boat could be righted if it turned > upside down. When Abby talked to the rescue party I think she said > something like "This is Abby, I am all right, I have righted the boat". > Perhaps a cruising boat can right itself just because it isn't so flat, I > don't know, but none the less, this is impressive. If you follow the links, > you can find that you right the boat by manually pumping water into one of > the ballast tanks. > http://www.abbysunderland.com/wild-eyes-self-rights.php > > Allen > > > > > ------------------------------ > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. Learn more.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1> > > >

Fellow sailors, Robin Lee Grahm of Lapworth 24 fame, the first young singlehander circumnavigator, and not much older than Abby when he left, was dis-masted twice, and he had none of the goodies Abby had (GPS, sat radio, single sideband, solar panels etc etc etc etc etc, and no one was complaining to his parents about his adventure, which was written up in National Geographic. He took his time going around and dutifully informed his Selective service board when he returned, but by then, 1973, the Vietnam War was over for the US. I'm sure he had some classmates who played it safe, were drafted, and bought the farm over there. He was both dis-masted in the Indian Ocean and swept overboard with no PFD, but as fortune had it a friendly wave boosted him back aboard. He Jury rigged his boat, granted, a lot easier on a smaller boat, using the mast stub and his boom, and made it into Durbin in good time, good enuff time that no one ever knew of his difficulties! Given all the advantages Abby had in boat and equipment (I followed her out of the harbor and down the coast a short ways on Shpritz), I don't see what the big difference is. At least she wasn't text messaging or yakking on the cell phone while zooming down the 405 freeway in rush hour traffic at 70MPH like a good percentage of the cars around me everyday. Jerry. --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Timm, Allen) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 10:33 AM A note from the weather router has been posted. I have copied it below. See http://soloround. blogspot. com/ for more stuff. I guess we will have to wait to see what happened to cause the dismasting. As we see from Timm's post of Skip Allan, this kind of stuff can happen to anyone. Allen

Just for a lark I spend some time on youtube today under the search tab of "sailing around the world". What surprised me is how many simple, non sponsored, sailors men, woman and teens, have captured their stories. No one knows of them, no publicity, no sponsorship, just a love of sailing and adventure, and if you have the talent, why not. How much of this story has been distorted or captured accurately by the media is really not the issue for me. What is at play here and what I find interesting is that she gave it a shot. You never loose doing that because that's really not what its about when its all said and done. The fact that you tried and did what you did is what counts in my books. -- /ch

--- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. Mike Kennedy Mike, Good point! What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the crew to sleep in. On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, as well as finding a short cut to Asia. So why do we celebrate him each year? Jerry

On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. > What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and > the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. > > Mike Kennedy > > > Mike, > Good point! > > What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor > that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, > the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that > any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding > instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how > to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high > tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being > incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. We had a hill popular with hang gliders in San Clemente back in the 70s. It's built up now but it was good business for the ER while it lasted. The glide path ended right outside the ER ambulance entrance. > > Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership > and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean > scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and > die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an > unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet > tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I > think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the > Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I > informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF > radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? My son, Mike Jr, was sailing on Kathmandu in a coastal race when the owner put his hand on the mainsheet block. They jibed and he lost his thumb. Fortunately, they had gotten to Newport Beach so a speedboat took him and the thumb off to Hoag Hospital where they reattached it. > > Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the > 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his > weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of > European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding > to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty > charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the > crew to sleep in. The Indians had the last laugh as syphilis was a fair trade. > > On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the > Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, > as well as finding a short cut to Asia. The gold and silver story was absolutely true. Spain was the richest country in the world for a century but they spent it all in wars. Does that sound familiar ? > > So why do we celebrate him each year? Italians. The Godfather. Mike Kennedy > > Jerry > >

OK, Jerry, In the interests of full disclosure , my grandmother Eva Geneveve Carroll was 1/2 Shawnee. A woods Indian. I respect Abby. her parents are another matter. The financial arrangments are yet to be disclosed. Abby was manipulated by her greedy parents. She was pushed into what she did because she needed to complete her vojage by a certain date. Her parents are in the leauge with others who sold their daughters in to sexual slavery (PROSTITUTION) for money. They are the scum of the earth. This is mild, I can go on. My Best, Mike From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 2:46:46 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. > What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and > the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. > > Mike Kennedy > > > Mike, > Good point! > > What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor > that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, > the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that > any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding > instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how > to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high > tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being > incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. We had a hill popular with hang gliders in San Clemente back in the 70s. It's built up now but it was good business for the ER while it lasted. The glide path ended right outside the ER ambulance entrance. > > Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership > and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean > scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and > die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an > unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet > tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I > think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the > Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I > informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF > radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? My son, Mike Jr, was sailing on Kathmandu in a coastal race when the owner put his hand on the mainsheet block. They jibed and he lost his thumb. Fortunately, they had gotten to Newport Beach so a speedboat took him and the thumb off to Hoag Hospital where they reattached it. > > Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the > 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his > weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of > European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding > to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty > charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the > crew to sleep in. The Indians had the last laugh as syphilis was a fair trade. > > On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the > Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, > as well as finding a short cut to Asia. The gold and silver story was absolutely true. Spain was the richest country in the world for a century but they spent it all in wars. Does that sound familiar ? > > So why do we celebrate him each year? Italians. The Godfather. Mike Kennedy > > Jerry > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- On Wed, 6/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: OK, Jerry, In the interests of full disclosure , my grandmother Eva Geneveve Carroll was 1/2 Shawnee. A woods Indian. I respect Abby. her parents are another matter. The financial arrangments are yet to be disclosed. Abby was manipulated by her greedy parents. She was pushed into what she did because she needed to complete her vojage by a certain date. Her parents are in the leauge with others who sold their daughters in to sexual slavery (PROSTITUTION) for money. They are the scum of the earth. This is mild, I can go on. My Best, Mike Mike, I dunno. I could agree with you, but then... Speaking of Indians... My girlfriend is half Cherokee, and she won't go sailing unless the boat has its sails down and is securely tied to the dock. I've met Abby's family, Zac, her dad and mom, who seemed pretty low key. Abbey and her siblings grew up on a cruising boat, so it isn't like she was forced into it at the point of a saber, or didn't know what blue water cruising was all about. Zac said that Abby is a better sailor than he is, and this is after he returned from his circumnavigation and she was out shaking down "Wild Eyes" after she splashed her from the boatyard, in front of our WSA group. I think she genuinely wanted to do the voyage, much as Robin Graham did a generation or two earlier. She seemed pretty happy and relaxed as she walked about the deck while Eric and I photographed her less than a jelly fish's toss from her port side. The boat is a 40 footer, not a sixty like a certain other young gal, five foot four, sailed around the world in her early twenties. Anywho, it's a big family and I always wondered how they could afford these voyages, unless they had sponsorship. Heck, even Oracle got BMW to help sponsor his America's cup ventures, something that, as a Jew who lost his Aunt and Uncle to Dr. Mengele et. al.'s gas chambers the day they arrived at the "work makes you free" summer camp, and my cousin to Tyhoid fever two days before the Allies arrived. Of course, the CEO of Oracle is Jewish himself, so go figure. Meanwhile, there are plenty of even younger kids 8,9, 10, working, doing dangerous things on farms, which are among the most dangerous places in the world to work. And other kids who don't get a taste of work till they're too old to adapt to it and become social parasites. How old were the powder monkeys and Midshipmen who got maimed or blown to bits on yesteryears frigates? Where would and what would Lord Nelson have been if he wasn't seafaring on a war ship at sixteen? Makes us wonder. Jerry From: Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 2:46:46 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> wrote: > > > In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. > What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and > the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. > > Mike Kennedy > > > Mike, > Good point! > > What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor > that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, > the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that > any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding > instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how > to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high > tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being > incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. We had a hill popular with hang gliders in San Clemente back in the 70s. It's built up now but it was good business for the ER while it lasted. The glide path ended right outside the ER ambulance entrance. > > Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership > and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean > scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and > die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an > unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet > tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I > think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the > Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I > informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF > radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? My son, Mike Jr, was sailing on Kathmandu in a coastal race when the owner put his hand on the mainsheet block. They jibed and he lost his thumb. Fortunately, they had gotten to Newport Beach so a speedboat took him and the thumb off to Hoag Hospital where they reattached it. > > Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the > 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his > weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of > European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding > to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty > charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the > crew to sleep in. The Indians had the last laugh as syphilis was a fair trade. > > On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the > Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, > as well as finding a short cut to Asia. The gold and silver story was absolutely true. Spain was the richest country in the world for a century but they spent it all in wars. Does that sound familiar ? > > So why do we celebrate him each year? Italians. The Godfather. Mike Kennedy > > Jerry > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links

I am amazed you can know so much with such little information. My hat is off to you. I can't do it. Allen On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:50 PM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > OK, Jerry, > In the interests of full disclosure , my grandmother Eva > Geneveve Carroll was 1/2 Shawnee. A woods Indian. I respect Abby. her > parents are another matter. The financial arrangments are yet to be > disclosed. Abby was manipulated by her greedy parents. She was pushed into > what she did because she needed to complete her vojage by a certain date. > Her parents are in the leauge with others who sold their daughters in to > sexual slavery (PROSTITUTION) for money. They are the scum of the earth. > This is mild, I can go on. > My Best, Mike > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wed, June 16, 2010 2:46:46 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) > > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > > > > In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. > > What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and > > the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. > > > > Mike Kennedy > > > > > > Mike, > > Good point! > > > > What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor > > that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, > > the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that > > any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding > > instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how > > to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high > > tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being > > incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. > > We had a hill popular with hang gliders in San Clemente back in the > 70s. It's built up now but it was good business for the ER while it > lasted. The glide path ended right outside the ER ambulance entrance. > > > > Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership > > and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean > > scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and > > die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an > > unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet > > tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I > > think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the > > Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I > > informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF > > radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? > > My son, Mike Jr, was sailing on Kathmandu in a coastal race when the > owner put his hand on the mainsheet block. They jibed and he lost his > thumb. Fortunately, they had gotten to Newport Beach so a speedboat > took him and the thumb off to Hoag Hospital where they reattached it. > > > > Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the > > 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his > > weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of > > European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding > > to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty > > charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the > > crew to sleep in. > > The Indians had the last laugh as syphilis was a fair trade. > > > > On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the > > Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, > > as well as finding a short cut to Asia. > > The gold and silver story was absolutely true. Spain was the richest > country in the world for a century but they spent it all in wars. > > Does that sound familiar ? > > > > So why do we celebrate him each year? > > Italians. The Godfather. > > Mike Kennedy > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

WOT ??? Hummm Carroll is an Irish Name. A Caroll was a signer of the US Constitution. He was the onlyCatholic signer. His estate/farm/plantation is a national/state park in ------------ I own a pair of Sterling Silver sugar nips, initial as posessed by the house. What a wonderful Country we share------------------ --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 5:25 PM I am amazed you can know so much with such little information. My hat is off to you. I can't do it. Allen On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:50 PM, mike farrell <vectormenow@ yahoo.com> wrote: OK, Jerry, In the interests of full disclosure , my grandmother Eva Geneveve Carroll was 1/2 Shawnee. A woods Indian. I respect Abby. her parents are another matter. The financial arrangments are yet to be disclosed. Abby was manipulated by her greedy parents. She was pushed into what she did because she needed to complete her vojage by a certain date. Her parents are in the leauge with others who sold their daughters in to sexual slavery (PROSTITUTION) for money. They are the scum of the earth. This is mild, I can go on. My Best, Mike From: Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 2:46:46 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > > --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> wrote: > > > In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. > What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and > the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. > > Mike Kennedy > > > Mike, > Good point! > > What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor > that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, > the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that > any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding > instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how > to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high > tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being > incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. We had a hill popular with hang gliders in San Clemente back in the 70s. It's built up now but it was good business for the ER while it lasted. The glide path ended right outside the ER ambulance entrance. > > Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership > and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean > scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and > die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an > unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet > tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I > think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the > Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I > informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF > radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? My son, Mike Jr, was sailing on Kathmandu in a coastal race when the owner put his hand on the mainsheet block. They jibed and he lost his thumb. Fortunately, they had gotten to Newport Beach so a speedboat took him and the thumb off to Hoag Hospital where they reattached it. > > Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the > 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his > weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of > European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding > to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty > charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the > crew to sleep in. The Indians had the last laugh as syphilis was a fair trade. > > On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the > Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, > as well as finding a short cut to Asia. The gold and silver story was absolutely true. Spain was the richest country in the world for a century but they spent it all in wars. Does that sound familiar ? > > So why do we celebrate him each year? Italians. The Godfather. Mike Kennedy > > Jerry > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Dear, Trudi My Grandmother was a direct decendent of Charles Carroll. He was the last signer, the youngest signer and when he died was the last living signer. When he signed as "Charles Carroll of Carrollton" , He was asked why he put his address after his name? His reply" If this does not succeed, I don't want King George to hang an innocent man." He knew that there were 2 more men naned Charles Carroll My Best, Mike Farrell From: Trudi Devine <tr… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:40:39 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) WOT ??? Hummm Carroll is an Irish Name. A Caroll was a signer of the US Constitution. He was the onlyCatholic signer. His estate/farm/plantation is a national/state park in ------------ I own a pair of Sterling Silver sugar nips, initial as posessed by the house. What a wonderful Country we share------------------ --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 5:25 PM > > > >I am amazed you can know so much with such little information. My hat is off to you. I can't do it. > > >Allen > > >On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:50 PM, mike farrell <vectormenow@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>OK, Jerry, >> In the interests of full disclosure , my grandmother Eva Geneveve Carroll was 1/2 Shawnee. A woods Indian. I respect Abby. her parents are another matter. The financial arrangments are yet to be disclosed. Abby was manipulated by her greedy parents. She was pushed into what she did because she needed to complete her vojage by a certain date. Her parents are in the leauge with others who sold their daughters in to sexual slavery (PROSTITUTION) for money. They are the scum of the earth. >> This is mild, I can go on. >> My Best, Mike >> >> >> From: Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> >>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >>Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 2:46:46 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) >> >> >> >>On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. >>> What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and >>> the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. >>> >>> Mike Kennedy >>> >>> >>> Mike, >>> Good point! >>> >>> What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor >>> that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, >>> the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that >>> any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding >>> instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how >>> to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high >>> tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being >>> incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. >> >>We had a hill popular with hang gliders in San Clemente back in the >>70s. It's built up now but it was good business for the ER while it >>lasted. The glide path ended right outside the ER ambulance entrance. >>> >>> Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership >>> and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean >>> scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and >>> die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an >>> unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet >>> tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I >>> think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the >>> Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I >>> informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF >>> radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? >> >>My son, Mike Jr, was sailing on Kathmandu in a coastal race when the >>owner put his hand on the mainsheet block. They jibed and he lost his >>thumb. Fortunately, they had gotten to Newport Beach so a speedboat >>took him and the thumb off to Hoag Hospital where they reattached it. >>> >>> Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the >>> 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his >>> weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of >>> European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding >>> to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty >>> charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the >>> crew to sleep in. >> >>The Indians had the last laugh as syphilis was a fair trade. >>> >>> On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the >>> Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, >>> as well as finding a short cut to Asia. >> >>The gold and silver story was absolutely true. Spain was the richest >>country in the world for a century but they spent it all in wars. >> >>Does that sound familiar ? >>> >>> So why do we celebrate him each year? >> >>Italians. The Godfather. >> >>Mike Kennedy >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> >> >> >> >>------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >

Allen, Read what Latitude 38 published in 'Lectronic L38. Don't you think it somewhat suspect that her brother did a circumnavigation ( with his parents help) in a Islander 36. Now she sets off with a deadline because of her age in a rather more sophisticated boat. If you question my sources, I'm sure that you can check them. Information is power. This will not go away. Put your hat back on old buddy, your head may get cold. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:25:06 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) I am amazed you can know so much with such little information. My hat is off to you. I can't do it. Allen On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:50 PM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >OK, Jerry, > In the interests of full disclosure , my grandmother Eva Geneveve Carroll was 1/2 Shawnee. A woods Indian. I respect Abby. her parents are another matter. The financial arrangments are yet to be disclosed. Abby was manipulated by her greedy parents. She was pushed into what she did because she needed to complete her vojage by a certain date. Her parents are in the leauge with others who sold their daughters in to sexual slavery (PROSTITUTION) for money. They are the scum of the earth. > This is mild, I can go on. > My Best, Mike > > > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 2:46:46 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) > > > >On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > >> >> >> >> --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: >> >> >> In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. >> What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and >> the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. >> >> Mike Kennedy >> >> >> Mike, >> Good point! >> >> What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor >> that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, >> the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that >> any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding >> instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how >> to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high >> tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being >> incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. > >We had a hill popular with hang gliders in San Clemente back in the >70s. It's built up now but it was good business for the ER while it >lasted. The glide path ended right outside the ER ambulance entrance. >> >> Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership >> and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean >> scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and >> die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an >> unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet >> tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I >> think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the >> Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I >> informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF >> radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? > >My son, Mike Jr, was sailing on Kathmandu in a coastal race when the >owner put his hand on the mainsheet block. They jibed and he lost his >thumb. Fortunately, they had gotten to Newport Beach so a speedboat >took him and the thumb off to Hoag Hospital where they reattached it. >> >> Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the >> 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his >> weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of >> European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding >> to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty >> charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the >> crew to sleep in. > >The Indians had the last laugh as syphilis was a fair trade. >> >> On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the >> Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, >> as well as finding a short cut to Asia. > >The gold and silver story was absolutely true. Spain was the richest >country in the world for a century but they spent it all in wars. > >Does that sound familiar ? >> >> So why do we celebrate him each year? > >Italians. The Godfather. > >Mike Kennedy >> >> Jerry >> >> > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Jerry, Don't turn your back on her if she has an angry look on her face and a knife in her hand!(But that goes for all wives and sweethearts) May they never meet---- Shalom, Brother. Mike From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:23:52 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) --- On Wed, 6/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: OK, Jerry, In the interests of full disclosure , my grandmother Eva Geneveve Carroll was 1/2 Shawnee. A woods Indian. I respect Abby. her parents are another matter. The financial arrangments are yet to be disclosed. Abby was manipulated by her greedy parents. She was pushed into what she did because she needed to complete her vojage by a certain date. Her parents are in the leauge with others who sold their daughters in to sexual slavery (PROSTITUTION) for money. They are the scum of the earth. This is mild, I can go on. My Best, Mike Mike, I dunno. I could agree with you, but then... Speaking of Indians... My girlfriend is half Cherokee, and she won't go sailing unless the boat has its sails down and is securely tied to the dock. I've met Abby's family, Zac, her dad and mom, who seemed pretty low key. Abbey and her siblings grew up on a cruising boat, so it isn't like she was forced into it at the point of a saber, or didn't know what blue water cruising was all about. Zac said that Abby is a better sailor than he is, and this is after he returned from his circumnavigation and she was out shaking down "Wild Eyes" after she splashed her from the boatyard, in front of our WSA group. I think she genuinely wanted to do the voyage, much as Robin Graham did a generation or two earlier. She seemed pretty happy and relaxed as she walked about the deck while Eric and I photographed her less than a jelly fish's toss from her port side. The boat is a 40 footer, not a sixty like a certain other young gal, five foot four, sailed around the world in her early twenties. Anywho, it's a big family and I always wondered how they could afford these voyages, unless they had sponsorship. Heck, even Oracle got BMW to help sponsor his America's cup ventures, something that, as a Jew who lost his Aunt and Uncle to Dr. Mengele et. al.'s gas chambers the day they arrived at the "work makes you free" summer camp, and my cousin to Tyhoid fever two days before the Allies arrived. Of course, the CEO of Oracle is Jewish himself, so go figure. Meanwhile, there are plenty of even younger kids 8,9, 10, working, doing dangerous things on farms, which are among the most dangerous places in the world to work. And other kids who don't get a taste of work till they're too old to adapt to it and become social parasites. How old were the powder monkeys and Midshipmen who got maimed or blown to bits on yesteryears frigates? Where would and what would Lord Nelson have been if he wasn't seafaring on a war ship at sixteen? Makes us wonder. Jerry > > From: Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 2:46:46 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Abby Sunderland (Mike,Timm, Allen) > > >On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > >> >> >> >> --- On Tue, 6/15/10, Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> wrote: >> >> >> In winter the southern ocean has storms 30% of the time, in summer 5%. >> What would you recommend? I think it was foolhardy to go that time and >> the parents seem to be in it for the money big time. >> >> Mike Kennedy >> >> >> Mike, >> Good point! >> >> What I didn't like is that the young lass'es Dad denied the rumor >> that they were trying to negotiate a deal for a reality show, when, >> the next day, the news came out it was true. One thing tho, is that >> any publicity, bad or good, is good for sailing. My hang gliding >> instructor would see a big increase in people wanting to learn how >> to fly after mishaps like a hang gliding pilot landing in high >> tension wires just short of the beach in Malibu, and being >> incinerated in front of horrified motorists on the jammed highway. > >We had a hill popular with hang gliders in San Clemente back in the >70s. It's built up now but it was good business for the ER while it >lasted. The glide path ended right outside the ER ambulance entrance. >> >> Funny a friend of mine who owns the biggest hang gliding dealership >> and school in So. Cal. finds the idea of going sailing in the ocean >> scarier than flying! I guess, considering you can fall overboard and >> die of hypothermia or drowning, or get your skull shattered by an >> unexpected gibing boom, or get your hand snared in a genoa sheet >> tangle and amputated, maybe he's not so off base. Maybe that's why I >> think sailing anything larger than my 24 is scary. So why did the >> Marina Sailing Singles take me boat off sailing status when I >> informed them I'd sold my outboard, labeling it as unsafe (no VHF >> radio too, god forbid!), and so doing launch my racing career? > >My son, Mike Jr, was sailing on Kathmandu in a coastal race when the >owner put his hand on the mainsheet block. They jibed and he lost his >thumb. Fortunately, they had gotten to Newport Beach so a speedboat >took him and the thumb off to Hoag Hospital where they reattached it. >> >> Christopher Columbus justifiably deserves our ire, as well as the >> 150 million native Americans who suffered horrific deaths from his >> weapons of mass destruction (spreading epidemic after epidemic of >> European diseases for which they had nil immunity), for proceeding >> to set sail with three shiploads of hapless sailors, with faulty >> charts, nav gear, no GPS, radio, or even protected quarters for the >> crew to sleep in. > >The Indians had the last laugh as syphilis was a fair trade. >> >> On top of that, an over confident, boastful Christopher misslead the >> Spanish royal family about all the gold and silver they would find, >> as well as finding a short cut to Asia. > >The gold and silver story was absolutely true. Spain was the richest >country in the world for a century but they spent it all in wars. > >Does that sound familiar ? >> >> So why do we celebrate him each year? > >Italians. The Godfather. > >Mike Kennedy >> >> Jerry >> >> > > > >------------ --------- --------- ------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >