Shallow Dock

Hello All, I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. John Stacklyn Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" Shell Point, FL

Personally I would perfer this not to occur as not only will you be grounded, but it will hinder your ability to get into / out of your slip. Are you sure of the depth at low tide? Have you witnessed low tide since your boat is in the new slip? Are you certain where your gauge reads the depth from as some people set the guage to read from the bottom of the keel verses the water line. Is this slip at a marina and if so did you speak with the dock manager about it? Good Luck!!!! Greg Pearson 36-2 former Cal 34-III ----- Original Message ----- From: John To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 6:48 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock Hello All, I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. John Stacklyn Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" Shell Point, FL

John, on the practical side, you will be losing some paint to abrasion. Also, normally you can run tight dock lines at a floating dock since the boat moves with the dock. In this case, you will need looser lines. If it is muck, there is not much worry about structural stress. Yes, the goo will fill back in under the boat. Suggest you only scrub the bottom at high tide. : - ] As others suggest, I'd run a pole down to see what the water depth really is. Are there cases where a strong breeze pushes out water and enhances the tide? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 6:49 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock Hello All, I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. John Stacklyn Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" Shell Point, FL ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

I was once in a dock where I dropped a screwdriver overboard and was able to pick it up at low tide. The boat would sit down in the mud and lean over to one side. The keel will dig a trench in the mud and make a nice cradle for the boat. Another time my marina got silted in due to dredging nearby. Then I sat in the mud a little each low tide. The boat got some worm damage. You probably don't have to worry about that. The mud also turned the paint a very strange color so at your next haulout you will know if you were in the mud. Other posts have made the points that need to be made. My guess is that the bottom of the ocean has been carved out by your and other boats and that you will only hit at the extreme low tides. Your biggest worry will be other parts of the marina at low tide which prevent you from getting out. Allen On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 3:48 AM, John <st… [at] embarqmail.com> wrote: > > > Hello All, > I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide > calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the > extreme > low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the > fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The > dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull > and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by > the > keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > John Stacklyn > Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" > Shell Point, FL > > >

Allen Edwards wrote: > > > Your biggest worry will be other parts of the marina at low tide > which prevent you from getting out. > It's also worth worrying about providing enough mooring line length so there are no undue stresses on the mooring cleats as the boat heels over when it finds the bottom. John states that these are floating docks, which diminishes the problem some, but it's likely that the boat will hit bottom while the floating docks continue to drop. Also, if the boat heels over, that will affect the mooring lines. A lot of mooring cleats are not really designed to withstand the kind of stresses that arise when they are asked to hold the boat upright or to support the attached floating docks. He may want to evaluate whether the boat needs additional fenders for changes in relative position between dock and boat, and whether there is any danger of the rig snagging on something if the boat heels over after grounding. Chris Campbell >

Bad stuff happens! Move your boat. My best, Mike From: John <st… [at] embarqmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 3:48:34 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock Hello All, I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. John Stacklyn Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" Shell Point, FL ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yes, best to move it...at the least, the muck will mess up your bottom job, especially the bottom flat of the keel. Next, if you are in the mud and a big storm hits, your boat tries to leave but the mud can stress your keel and really bad for your rudder. Last but the worst, who knows what evil lies deeper into the mud, perhaps a stray shopping cart, old engine block, rudder, whatever. Helen From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 4:43:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock Bad stuff happens! Move your boat. My best, Mike From: John <stacklynj@embarqmai l.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 3:48:34 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock Hello All, I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. John Stacklyn Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" Shell Point, FL ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi John, I wouldn't leave my boat there any longer than I had to. During a really low tide you could strain or tear out cleats, you will be jamming mud in to every through hull fitting, you won't be doing your rudder any good, and you will be trapped in the miserable goo when you most want to go sailing. Tom From: John <st… [at] embarqmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 3:48:34 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock Hello All, I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. John Stacklyn Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" Shell Point, FL ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

If you want to keep your slip as is, I'd remove the keel/lead mine, and convert your Cal into a trimarran or an outrigger. It'll draw less water, but, my experience sailing a plywood cat out of Palo Alto Marina in the late sixties, was you could get stuck in the muck anyway. I think Palo Alto Marina has since been silted in an abandoned, and left to the birds (modern day dinosaurs) to repossess. Jerry Sobel (Cal 24 Mk 1..draws a tad more than 30"..enuff to get stuck.) --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 11:14 PM Hi John, I wouldn't leave my boat there any longer than I had to. During a really low tide you could strain or tear out cleats, you will be jamming mud in to every through hull fitting, you won't be doing your rudder any good, and you will be trapped in the miserable goo when you most want to go sailing. Tom From: John <stacklynj@embarqmai l.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 3:48:34 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock Hello All, I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. John Stacklyn Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" Shell Point, FL ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links

I think some of you are being overly cautious here. For one thing, he is using charts and depth gauge to decide he might have a problem. How old are the charts? Has the area been dredged since the chart was made? Where is 0 on the depth gauge, water line or keel bottom? He really needs to find out what the situation really is. Then, it may not even matter that much. My boat was sitting in the mud for most of a year and I didn't even know it until I hauled out and saw the stain on the keel. In my case I had worms but that isn't an issue with the OP's boat. On the other hand, maybe his boat will lean over in low tide. I doubt it if he is in a slip as there is likely a nice depression formed by the lowest tide of the year and only then would there be an issue. It would be nice to not have this problem but I must assume he has reasons for being there or he would just have moved. Allen On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Hi John, > > I wouldn't leave my boat there any longer than I had to. During a really > low tide you could strain or tear out cleats, you will be jamming mud in to > every through hull fitting, you won't be doing your rudder any good, and you > will be trapped in the miserable goo when you most want to go sailing. > > Tom > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* John <st… [at] embarqmail.com> > > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wed, June 30, 2010 3:48:34 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock > > Hello All, > I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide > calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the > extreme > low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the > fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The > dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull > and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by > the > keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > John Stacklyn > Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" > Shell Point, FL > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

John, I had a similar problem but my keel would only sink a foot into soft mud at absolute max minus tides a few times a month. It wasn't a problem except you will get more growth on bottom of the keel. I use an epoxy paint. I would not do it with an ablative. Dave 80 Cal 35 Runnin Late SF Bay

I have been at a marina with 2.5ft at mean low water. When we first moved to the marina we were told there was 5ft at mean low. I noticed after about a month that was not the case. Even with a minus tide all boats would just sink in to the silt and stay upright. It was a pain having to come and go with the tides but we got really good at timing the tides. The diver could only come out at higher tides to clean the bottom. He did say the paint was wearing on the keel. Being in the Carquinez Straits in the Bay Area depth is an issue at all of the marinas. Since it was only 5 minutes to the marina we stuck it out. They dredged this past summer and now we come and go whenever we want. What a great feeling. I guess it depends on why the marina is shallow on what could happen to your boat. For us it was just silt and a few folks would just power through the muck to get in and out. I did see one power boat clog his raw water intake and blow a head gasket. Bryan Saulsbury Boris Cal 2-27 From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 12:29:31 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock I think some of you are being overly cautious here. For one thing, he is using charts and depth gauge to decide he might have a problem. How old are the charts? Has the area been dredged since the chart was made? Where is 0 on the depth gauge, water line or keel bottom? He really needs to find out what the situation really is. Then, it may not even matter that much. My boat was sitting in the mud for most of a year and I didn't even know it until I hauled out and saw the stain on the keel. In my case I had worms but that isn't an issue with the OP's boat. On the other hand, maybe his boat will lean over in low tide. I doubt it if he is in a slip as there is likely a nice depression formed by the lowest tide of the year and only then would there be an issue. It would be nice to not have this problem but I must assume he has reasons for being there or he would just have moved. Allen On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Tom Miller <tmiller111@yahoo. com> wrote: >Hi John, > >I wouldn't leave my boat there any longer than I had to. During a really low tide you could strain or tear out cleats, you will be jamming mud in to every through hull fitting, you won't be doing your rudder any good, and you will be trapped in the miserable goo when you most want to go sailing. > >Tom > > > > > From: John <stacklynj@embarqmai l.com> > >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 3:48:34 AM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock > >Hello All, >I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide >calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme >low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the >fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The >dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull >and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the >keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). >Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > >John Stacklyn >Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" >Shell Point, FL > > > > >------------ --------- --------- ------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

BAD!!! Move your boat. Happy 4 July. My Best, Mike From: John <st… [at] embarqmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 3:48:34 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock Hello All, I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. John Stacklyn Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" Shell Point, FL ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Why not sound with a lead line? Wait till low tide and see? Does'nt the marina office know? An occasional grounding in exceptionally low tides seems ok to me if it is a soft mud bottom. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 3:29:31 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock I think some of you are being overly cautious here. For one thing, he is using charts and depth gauge to decide he might have a problem. How old are the charts? Has the area been dredged since the chart was made? Where is 0 on the depth gauge, water line or keel bottom? He really needs to find out what the situation really is. Then, it may not even matter that much. My boat was sitting in the mud for most of a year and I didn't even know it until I hauled out and saw the stain on the keel. In my case I had worms but that isn't an issue with the OP's boat. On the other hand, maybe his boat will lean over in low tide. I doubt it if he is in a slip as there is likely a nice depression formed by the lowest tide of the year and only then would there be an issue. It would be nice to not have this problem but I must assume he has reasons for being there or he would just have moved. Allen On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Tom Miller <tmiller111@yahoo. com> wrote: >Hi John, > >I wouldn't leave my boat there any longer than I had to. During a really low >tide you could strain or tear out cleats, you will be jamming mud in to every >through hull fitting, you won't be doing your rudder any good, and you will be >trapped in the miserable goo when you most want to go sailing. > > >Tom > > > > > From: John <stacklynj@embarqmai l.com> > >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 3:48:34 AM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Shallow Dock > >Hello All, >I just moved my Cal 31 to a new dock but, based on my depth gauge and tide >calculations, it appears the boat will be grounded once a day on the extreme >low tide. In the worst case this would mean the water is 3' deep, while the >fin keel is 5'. I'm almost certain that the bottom is soft, deep muck. The >dock is floating. So the question is how bad is this for both the keel/hull >and the dock? Is it likely that the bottom will be quickly dug deeper by the >keel or will the muck just continually be refilling (I'd guess the latter). >Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > >John Stacklyn >Cal 31 #33 "Sol Survivor" >Shell Point, FL > > > > >------------ --------- --------- ------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >