CAL 29 drain hole enlargement

Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity....for me. YMMV. Once the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule assigned......over a couple of seasons...:) Best regards and thanks -- /ch

euhris, I enlarged cockpit drains to 1 1/2 inches for the same reason (photos attached). Next is to add 1/1/2 inch drain aft end of cockpit to transom. That hose will have an inline check value to prevent water from coming into cockpit. The 36 has a huge cockpit. Nigel Calder has charts for flow rates. The difference between 1 inch (my original through hulls and 1 1/2 inch is phenomenal. Mike Holiday Cal 36 > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: ch… [at] gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:21:15 -0400 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement > > Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of > water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 > minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the > stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? > > If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting > out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I > dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity....for me. YMMV. Once > the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed > out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule > assigned......over a couple of seasons...:) > > Best regards and thanks > > -- > /ch > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

Thanks for the information. The transom on the 29 is a bit different. The configuration is something like this. There is a small well at the back of the cockpit that allows the water to pool and then drain out by means of a hole approx 1" in dia. Redrilling this hole to enlarge it is what the issue is I think for the 29 as Im not sure how to do that as I dont know the configuration of the stern structure at that location. (boat is not with me at present) Opening that hole to 11/2 to 2" should suffice. But am I drilling through fibreglass at that dia or air. If air how to re-enforce or rebuild that portion of the stern. Im sure someone has done this already on the 29 or is there an alternative that I am not aware of. /ch

I have had some very negative responses to the idea of putting check valves in cockpit drains. Is there a consensus among you all on this? Wayne From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> To: Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 11:38:03 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) [3 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Michael Robinson included below] euhris, I enlarged cockpit drains to 1 1/2 inches for the same reason (photos attached). Next is to add 1/1/2 inch drain aft end of cockpit to transom. That hose will have an inline check value to prevent water from coming into cockpit. The 36 has a huge cockpit. Nigel Calder has charts for flow rates. The difference between 1 inch (my original through hulls and 1 1/2 inch is phenomenal. Mike Holiday Cal 36 > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > From: chris.herrnberger@ gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:21:15 -0400 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement > > Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of > water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 > minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the > stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? > > If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting > out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I > dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity... .for me. YMMV. Once > the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed > out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule > assigned.... ..over a couple of seasons...:) > > Best regards and thanks > > -- > /ch > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.

My cockpit drains go under water when I sail. I used to put wood plugs in them. Lot of good they would do then. I replaced the scuppers with Perco ones with little rubber balls. Now the balls go up and prevent the water from entering the cockpit, and get stuck closed. After I sail I take a little dowel and unstick them. Easier than wood plugs but probably the same result. I would not put the kind of check valve shown in the photo under the water line as they probably are. I just don't trust plastic that much. Allen On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > > I have had some very negative responses to the idea of putting check valves > in cockpit drains. Is there a consensus among you all on this? > > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> > *To:* Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Tue, July 6, 2010 11:38:03 AM > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) [3 > Attachments] > > > > euhris, > I enlarged cockpit drains to 1 1/2 inches for the same reason (photos > attached). Next is to add 1/1/2 inch drain aft end of cockpit to transom. > That hose will have an inline check value to prevent water from coming into > cockpit. The 36 has a huge cockpit. Nigel Calder has charts for flow rates. > The difference between 1 inch (my original through hulls and 1 1/2 inch is > phenomenal. > > > *Mike* > *Holiday* > *Cal 36* > ** > > > > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > From: chris.herrnberger@ gmail.com > > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:21:15 -0400 > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement > > > > Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of > > water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 > > minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the > > stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? > > > > If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting > > out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I > > dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity... .for me. YMMV. Once > > the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed > > out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule > > assigned.... ..over a couple of seasons...:) > > > > Best regards and thanks > > > > -- > > /ch > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with > Hotmail. Get busy.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5> > > >

If the drain is thru the stern and above the waterline like it is with the Cal29, put a rubber flap over it on the exterior face. When water hits the flap it will hold it closed preventing ingress. Bob II From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 9:17:29 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (check valves?) I have had some very negative responses to the idea of putting check valves in cockpit drains. Is there a consensus among you all on this? Wayne From: Michael Robinson <mikesrobinson@ hotmail.com> To: Cal boats List <cal_boats@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 11:38:03 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) [3 Attachments] euhris, I enlarged cockpit drains to 1 1/2 inches for the same reason (photos attached). Next is to add 1/1/2 inch drain aft end of cockpit to transom. That hose will have an inline check value to prevent water from coming into cockpit. The 36 has a huge cockpit. Nigel Calder has charts for flow rates. The difference between 1 inch (my original through hulls and 1 1/2 inch is phenomenal. Mike Holiday Cal 36 > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > From: chris.herrnberger@ gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:21:15 -0400 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement > > Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of > water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 > minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the > stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? > > If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting > out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I > dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity... .for me. YMMV. Once > the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed > out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule > assigned.... ..over a couple of seasons...:) > > Best regards and thanks > > -- > /ch > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.

Check valves tend to be problematic by nature. Unless you use a resilient seated it may tend to be noisy when the disk closes, or if installed horizontally, it will open and close over swells...must be installed with the flow direction going uphill. Check valves get plugged up with debris and with time copper alloy valves will fail from corrosion. I have the 2-29 with a rubber flap on the stern, it inherently leaks a little when the conditions are right. However, I have not experienced anything critical. how about putting a gusher in the lazarett with a two way valve allowing one to pump out the cockpit in the unlikely event it fills up....and the other end in the deep bilge. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Vanderpol ii To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (check valves?) If the drain is thru the stern and above the waterline like it is with the Cal29, put a rubber flap over it on the exterior face. When water hits the flap it will hold it closed preventing ingress. Bob II ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 9:17:29 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (check valves?) I have had some very negative responses to the idea of putting check valves in cockpit drains. Is there a consensus among you all on this? Wayne ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Michael Robinson <mikesrobinson@ hotmail.com> To: Cal boats List <cal_boats@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 11:38:03 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) [3 Attachments] euhris, I enlarged cockpit drains to 1 1/2 inches for the same reason (photos attached). Next is to add 1/1/2 inch drain aft end of cockpit to transom. That hose will have an inline check value to prevent water from coming into cockpit. The 36 has a huge cockpit. Nigel Calder has charts for flow rates. The difference between 1 inch (my original through hulls and 1 1/2 inch is phenomenal. Mike Holiday Cal 36 > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > From: chris.herrnberger@ gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:21:15 -0400 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement > > Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of > water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 > minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the > stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? > > If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting > out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I > dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity... .for me. YMMV. Once > the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed > out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule > assigned.... ..over a couple of seasons...:) > > Best regards and thanks > > -- > /ch > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5256 (20100706) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5256 (20100706) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

How about having a removable gate made into the transom.... now watch the waves go out. There is a gentlemen by the name of Alan Day in San Pedro who has kept his Cal 29 in a warehouse where he has made his into a beautiful exemplar, including the removable accommodation way in the transom. Just think you can land an entire Marlin! ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) Thanks for the information. The transom on the 29 is a bit different. The configuration is something like this. There is a small well at the back of the cockpit that allows the water to pool and then drain out by means of a hole approx 1" in dia. Redrilling this hole to enlarge it is what the issue is I think for the 29 as Im not sure how to do that as I dont know the configuration of the stern structure at that location. (boat is not with me at present) Opening that hole to 11/2 to 2" should suffice. But am I drilling through fibreglass at that dia or air. If air how to re-enforce or rebuild that portion of the stern. Im sure someone has done this already on the 29 or is there an alternative that I am not aware of. /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5256 (20100706) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5256 (20100706) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

a version of the "gate" was standard on the 27's if they were set up with outboard engines. others, also, I believe. reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ma… [at] cox.net Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:17:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) How about having a removable gate made into the transom.... now watch the waves go out. There is a gentlemen by the name of Alan Day in San Pedro who has kept his Cal 29 in a warehouse where he has made his into a beautiful exemplar, including the removable accommodation way in the transom. Just think you can land an entire Marlin! From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) Thanks for the information. The transom on the 29 is a bit different. The configuration is something like this. There is a small well at the back of the cockpit that allows the water to pool and then drain out by means of a hole approx 1" in dia. Redrilling this hole to enlarge it is what the issue is I think for the 29 as Im not sure how to do that as I dont know the configuration of the stern structure at that location. (boat is not with me at present) Opening that hole to 11/2 to 2" should suffice. But am I drilling through fibreglass at that dia or air. If air how to re-enforce or rebuild that portion of the stern. Im sure someone has done this already on the 29 or is there an alternative that I am not aware of. /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5256 (20100706) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5256 (20100706) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

unnecessary. rubber flapper valve works fine Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: wa… [at] yahoo.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:17:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (check valves?) I have had some very negative responses to the idea of putting check valves in cockpit drains. Is there a consensus among you all on this? Wayne From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> To: Cal boats List <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 11:38:03 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) [3 Attachments] euhris, I enlarged cockpit drains to 1 1/2 inches for the same reason (photos attached). Next is to add 1/1/2 inch drain aft end of cockpit to transom. That hose will have an inline check value to prevent water from coming into cockpit. The 36 has a huge cockpit. Nigel Calder has charts for flow rates. The difference between 1 inch (my original through hulls and 1 1/2 inch is phenomenal. Mike Holiday Cal 36 > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > From: chris.herrnberger@ gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:21:15 -0400 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement > > Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of > water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 > minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the > stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? > > If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting > out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I > dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity... .for me. YMMV. Once > the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed > out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule > assigned.... ..over a couple of seasons...:) > > Best regards and thanks > > -- > /ch > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.

two walls of fiberglass, hull wall and cockpit wall. Been there. done that. Hole saw. Perko drain with flapper valve. Same cockpit/hull design as 7 pop-top and T/2. Seal on outside of hull and on inside of cockpit. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:05:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) Thanks for the information. The transom on the 29 is a bit different. The configuration is something like this. There is a small well at the back of the cockpit that allows the water to pool and then drain out by means of a hole approx 1" in dia. Redrilling this hole to enlarge it is what the issue is I think for the 29 as Im not sure how to do that as I dont know the configuration of the stern structure at that location. (boat is not with me at present) Opening that hole to 11/2 to 2" should suffice. But am I drilling through fibreglass at that dia or air. If air how to re-enforce or rebuild that portion of the stern. Im sure someone has done this already on the 29 or is there an alternative that I am not aware of. /ch

Sounds wonderful, However I'd like to keep it simple and sea worthy. Gates have a way of coming apart in a breaking sea...:) I guess Im just gonna have to spend an afternoon on me back again once I get back to the boat to sort out the design requirements. /ch

try something like this. works fine on mine. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6686&familyName=Attwood+Thru-Transom+Scupper+with+Valve Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:52:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) Sounds wonderful, However I'd like to keep it simple and sea worthy. Gates have a way of coming apart in a breaking sea...:) I guess Im just gonna have to spend an afternoon on me back again once I get back to the boat to sort out the design requirements. /ch

I installed one like this. I installed it with the barb inward, then cut the whole thing off just inboard of the nut. No need for the barb and extra threads. A little water seeps in ocassionally when sailing or motoring hard, and all water runs out. Reggie To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: my… [at] hotmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:53:51 -0600 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) try something like this. works fine on mine. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6686&familyName=Attwood+Thru-Transom+Scupper+with+Valve Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:52:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) Sounds wonderful, However I'd like to keep it simple and sea worthy. Gates have a way of coming apart in a breaking sea...:) I guess Im just gonna have to spend an afternoon on me back again once I get back to the boat to sort out the design requirements. /ch

Bob, Attwood makes a flap with mounting ring, cheap and it works. Keeps water out of the aft end of the cockpit when motoring. Under sail it's not an issue. Regards, David Dobbs, Cal29 411 --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Robert Vanderpol ii <bo… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Robert Vanderpol ii <bo… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (check valves?) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 12:07 PM If the drain is thru the stern and above the waterline like it is with the Cal29, put a rubber flap over it on the exterior face. When water hits the flap it will hold it closed preventing ingress. Bob II From: Wayne Gillikin <waynegillikin@ yahoo.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 9:17:29 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (check valves?) I have had some very negative responses to the idea of putting check valves in cockpit drains. Is there a consensus among you all on this? Wayne From: Michael Robinson <mikesrobinson@ hotmail.com> To: Cal boats List <cal_boats@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 11:38:03 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) [3 Attachments] euhris, I enlarged cockpit drains to 1 1/2 inches for the same reason (photos attached). Next is to add 1/1/2 inch drain aft end of cockpit to transom. That hose will have an inline check value to prevent water from coming into cockpit. The 36 has a huge cockpit. Nigel Calder has charts for flow rates. The difference between 1 inch (my original through hulls and 1 1/2 inch is phenomenal. Mike Holiday Cal 36 > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > From: chris.herrnberger@ gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:21:15 -0400 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement > > Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of > water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 > minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the > stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? > > If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting > out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I > dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity... .for me. YMMV. Once > the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed > out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule > assigned.... ..over a couple of seasons...:) > > Best regards and thanks > > -- > /ch > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.

Thanks Reggie: That looks interesting. Im going to have to find out how big that widdle hole actually is. Perhaps its on the drawing set. But to me it looks like 1".(working from memory) My concern is really more about what would be the proper way to enlarge the existing hole. Then I can deal with scuppers and friends. /ch

I don't know what you all big boat sailors do but I added 2 1.5 inch drains. My cal 20 willl empty the cockpit well in less than 1.5m. I sail in the Gulf 0f the Farallones, one mistake will kill you. My Best, Mike From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 8:21:15 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement Doing the bucket test on the 29 cockpit she failed. Cockpit full of water to lower edge of locker lid and she does not drain in under 2 minutes. Anyone attempted to enlarge the singular drain hole at the stern? Any recommendations on how to do this? If your are wondering why all the questions, well Im slowly sorting out the issues needed to convert BB into a solid coastal cruiser. I dont race this boat as speed is not a necessity....for me. YMMV. Once the desired wish list items are tackled and plans drawn up an costed out, the priority list can be generated and work schedule assigned......over a couple of seasons...:) Best regards and thanks -- /ch ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

The manner in which the stern is designed on the 29 is that you have an interior skin and an exterior skin. They are approx 2" apart at the stern "cavity", directly in front of the well, perhaps less as Im working from memory.

as I said, I used a hole saw, sized for the through hull I mounted. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:31:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) Thanks Reggie: That looks interesting. Im going to have to find out how big that widdle hole actually is. Perhaps its on the drawing set. But to me it looks like 1".(working from memory) My concern is really more about what would be the proper way to enlarge the existing hole. Then I can deal with scuppers and friends. /ch

Chris, That's a good description of how the 29 drains. I believe that the scupper hole is about 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 inches in diameter (inside) and goes through the transom into a small box that sits a few inches below the cockpit sole. This scupper "box" or "well" will gradually fill with water as you sail or motor. On my boat, and at least a couple of other 29s that I know of, the "well" will spill over into the cockpit sole somewhere around 6 knots. My boat does this whether you are powering or sailing as she squats at speed. In following seas, as the swell overtakes you the entry of water is even more pronounced. For that reason, I added an Attwood flapper on the exterior of the transom. It is not a through-hull, but just a nylon ring with a rubber flap that seals water coming in, but allows water to drain out. It works very well. The through hull with built in flapper would work, but might require some engineering on the 29, because the scupper hole is actually a tube that joins the inner cockpit structure to the outer hull. The Attwood exterior flapper fitting just needs 4 screws and some caulking. On the 29, I surmise that If you enlarged the drain scupper back there, it might indeed allow quicker drainage, but it will also allow more water in as you speed along. A larger scupper and an equally sized scupper flapper may help. Wilkie On Jul 6, 2010, at 7:36 PM, chris123 wrote: > The manner in which the stern is designed on the 29 is that you have > an interior skin and an exterior skin. They are approx 2" apart at > the stern "cavity", directly in front of the well, perhaps less as > Im working from memory. > > From there the skins separate to form the interior liner that makes > up the cockpit and the exterior which makes up the lines of the hull > rejoining at the rear coaming and along the seems of the hull and > deck joint. Where the existing drain hole is it seems to be a solid > mass, that is glassed in so the both skins are "welded" together > with fiber glass, to provide the necessary structural integrity. > Further north, east and west of that hole, the stern is an empty > cavity that is easily deformed on the inside if pressure is applied. > > A better description is a picture and when Im stuck I always go to > Wilkie's site to get ideas or references on where stuff is on the > boat. The area we are talking about is directly behind the uber cool > propane locker and the drain hole is below the new locker > (....ah...someday) The last picture on that page gives you a better > understanding of location and the design of the stern on the 29. > > http://www.mariposasailing.com/Propane.html > > Case in point. My boarding ladder installed at that location (above > the well and drainage hole) has an interior stainless steel backing > plate to allow for compression of the bolts holding the boarding > ladder in place, as its air between the two surfaces. So I'm not > sure if there is enough material around the existing hole to enlarge > it using a hole saw or other. The existing drain is nicely finished > of course as it came from the factory. > > Perhaps you have some suggestions given the above description, > assuming of course its comprehensible? Hope the above explains whats > going on. > > Best regards and thanks > > /ch > >

To add one more, our 29 has a stock sized scupper (1974) of about 2 inches in diameter. So does one I just checked out at SF Boatworks. The entire thickness is about1/2 inch looking like a biscuit cutter made a hole in dough. It is total laminate as you look through it into the little well at the aft end of the cockpit. If you try to stick that threaded thing in, one it will stick too far in and any crud in your cockpit will have a hard time finding the exit or worse clog it, and two the throughhull will shrink the opening to too small. I put the simple four screw flapper on the outside 5 years ago and now no water comes in when motoring or following sea and it all goes out. No more standing in an inch of water. Even if you enlarge that hole and if you find that it not laminated to inside and out at the new diameter, you can stuff glass batt and cloth with resin in it and relaminate to fill the sandwich and then grind (dremel?) the roundness to perfection. You still need to find a flapper to fit the new opening. If you have the normal opening,you can clean up the edge and put some epoxy or gel coat on it to waterproof it if it's compromised. On the Cal 36, the cockpit drains forwards into little drains, as well as does the bridgedeck up against the companionway bulkhead. It has a distance of inches from the cockpit rear to the transom, so it could use a drain back there but it would have to have a hose, a throughhull for the outside, a drain with barb from the cockpit and definitely a checkvalve or one-way device. It may even need to go out as a throughhull below the transom. It has a different waterline at the stern. I also am considering a manual gusher pump to manage the cockpit wave and a yvalve to the bilge to be operated from the tiller area. It would be a nice thing to have in the open ocean. The keel sump/bilge on the 29 is also different/deeper than the 36. Helen From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 9:34:06 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) as I said, I used a hole saw, sized for the through hull I mounted. Reggie To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: chris.herrnberger@ gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:31:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) Thanks Reggie: That looks interesting. Im going to have to find out how big that widdle hole actually is. Perhaps its on the drawing set. But to me it looks like 1".(working from memory) My concern is really more about what would be the proper way to enlarge the existing hole. Then I can deal with scuppers and friends. /ch

Thanks all. r. guess I did not read your post properly I guess as I missed the fact that you enlarged yours. So there is enough meat back their without extensive rework necessary. That's good as it simplifies things. The plan is fill the existing hole with a wood plug to catch the bit and then extending the dia to 1.5 - 2" followed by installation of a suitable flapper. Helen; the manual gusher that pumps out the bilge is located in the port locker. Two PO's back installed the AC electrical connection and a phone connector on the port side, inside the cockpit about three inches off the floor. These will be removed as they are not water tight, AC connector definitely in the wrong place. One will be filled the other will be reworked to connect to the manual pump via a valve at the locker. Thanks for the idea...its a good one. That only leaves the instrument panel to be removed and relocated to the starboard side above and behind the starboard locker so the lid does not interfere. Should result in a nice and tight cockpit. With thanks to all. /ch

Comments in line. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:08 AM, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > > > Chris, > > That's a good description of how the 29 drains. I believe that the scupper > hole is about 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 inches in diameter (inside) and goes through > the transom into a small box that sits a few inches below the cockpit sole. > This scupper "box" or "well" will gradually fill with water as you sail or > motor. > I guess I'm lucky but this is not the case on my boat. In part and I don't know why but the vessel seems to sit rather high at the stern even with all tanks empty and fuel tank full. When I look at the water line she comes out at the stern approx 2 inches above the line. No idea why. Ive motored this boat for approx a week solid at speed and sailed her about as much before I put her on the hard as the engine was not ready to go out onto the Atlantic to make the run to NYC. While not having the fun yet off traveling in a follow sea the boat has been bone dry at all angles of heal and speed. Just to get her somewhat more balanced I put a 35 CQR in the cockpit locker and 15 ft of chain, as well as the lunch hook. Either the water line is in the wrong place, which I don't think so as any water that does get into the boat tends to pool in front of the companionway when at rest. The only way to get it out is to sit on the top rail of the pulpit. So there is something that is not balance. Only one small anchor and 15 ft of chain in the anchor locker and the furler is an original famet which is not that heavy I would think. We are talking here, all tanks empty. With the water tank 1/2 filled (10USgal) did not seem to make that much of a difference. Gray water tank (aka shit tank) is on port side above the head similar to your install. > On my boat, and at least a couple of other 29s that I know of, the "well" > will spill over into the cockpit sole somewhere around 6 knots. My boat > does this whether you are powering or sailing as she squats at speed. In > following seas, as the swell overtakes you the entry of water is even more > pronounced. > Mine is a 3-29 and perhaps there was a design change made to accommodate the squat? I dunno just guessing. At speed, I'm dry. My concern is breaking waves and getting pooped in the cockpit. Makes a really nice bathtub however to relax in...:) > > For that reason, I added an Attwood flapper on the exterior of the transom. > It is not a through-hull, but just a nylon ring with a rubber flap that > seals water coming in, but allows water to drain out. It works very well. > This one: http://www.starboardsupply.com/product_info.php/products_id/3003720 The through hull with built in flapper would work, but might require some > engineering on the 29, because the scupper hole is actually a tube that > joins the inner cockpit structure to the outer hull. The Attwood exterior > flapper fitting just needs 4 screws and some caulking. > http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/Attwood_Thru_Hull_Scupper_Valves.html This one would require some rework, but it looks more solid in design. Both accomodate a 2" opening but the later reduces the flow based on ID. Thanks. Will take a look at those. > On the 29, I surmise that If you enlarged the drain scupper back there, it > might indeed allow quicker drainage, but it will also allow more water in as > you speed along. A larger scupper and an equally sized scupper flapper may > help. > Well if it does result in water in the cockpit, I can live with that. Been in a CAL 20 enough so it really doesn't bother me till it gets to be about 3 inches deep. The other solution of course is one of those nice teak grates set on a perch so its approx 1" off the floor. Ah....budgets..:) Thanks for the details. Much appreciated. /ch

mike farrell wrote: > > I don't know what you all big boat sailors do but I added 2 1.5 > inch drains. My cal 20 willl empty the cockpit well in less than > 1.5m. I sail in the Gulf 0f the Farallones, one mistake will kill you. My Cal 20 is sailed in considerably more placid waters usually, but the essence of competent sailing is being prepared for any weather and sea conditions. So when I look at the Cal 20 cockpit--big, no bridge deck--I am comforted by that great big hole called an outboard well. Until this season, it has always had an outboard motor in it, and a baffle around its lower unit made out of an old rubber mudflap to keep the well from filling up my cockpit under sail. It would still allow great volumes of water to drain out fairly quickly. This season my outboard has been on strike and I've been using the original Jensen Marine well plug. (Then that went on strike too, from dry rot in the wooden frame, but it's been cured with mahogany and epoxy). The boat is happier without having to drag that outboard around. The plug works well to keep water out but it would tend to keep it in, too, if the cockpit filled. I guess that if I were in big seas, I would not be worrying about a bit of water sloshing in from the well, and I'd just remove the plug. In the alternative, it would be easy to build a second plug, one with some holes in it to let water flow out. You don't need much of a baffle to keep water from sloshing in--I used my outboard motor baffle with out the motor in place, which is to say, with a big hole in the middle, while I was repairing the well plug. It worked pretty well. The lack of bridge deck can be dealt with by putting the companionway drop board in place, or my making one half-sized that filled only the lower portion of the companionway. I'm thinking about doing that, mostly so I have a place to mount a compass bracket. I used to have the compass mounted on the underside of the overhead, just forward of the hatch opening. It was sheltered there but when I went below I kept bashing it with my head until the poor thing died. The new compass is still in its box. Any other suggestions for mounting it? Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220, the lovely /Martha C/ >

when I had number Cal 20 #240 I mounted on one bulkhead and simply took a reference glance for the next tack. That always works well. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement mike farrell wrote: I don't know what you all big boat sailors do but I added 2 1.5 inch drains. My cal 20 willl empty the cockpit well in less than 1.5m. I sail in the Gulf 0f the Farallones, one mistake will kill you. My Cal 20 is sailed in considerably more placid waters usually, but the essence of competent sailing is being prepared for any weather and sea conditions. So when I look at the Cal 20 cockpit--big, no bridge deck--I am comforted by that great big hole called an outboard well. Until this season, it has always had an outboard motor in it, and a baffle around its lower unit made out of an old rubber mudflap to keep the well from filling up my cockpit under sail. It would still allow great volumes of water to drain out fairly quickly. This season my outboard has been on strike and I've been using the original Jensen Marine well plug. (Then that went on strike too, from dry rot in the wooden frame, but it's been cured with mahogany and epoxy). The boat is happier without having to drag that outboard around. The plug works well to keep water out but it would tend to keep it in, too, if the cockpit filled. I guess that if I were in big seas, I would not be worrying about a bit of water sloshing in from the well, and I'd just remove the plug. In the alternative, it would be easy to build a second plug, one with some holes in it to let water flow out. You don't need much of a baffle to keep water from sloshing in--I used my outboard motor baffle with out the motor in place, which is to say, with a big hole in the middle, while I was repairing the well plug. It worked pretty well. The lack of bridge deck can be dealt with by putting the companionway drop board in place, or my making one half-sized that filled only the lower portion of the companionway. I'm thinking about doing that, mostly so I have a place to mount a compass bracket. I used to have the compass mounted on the underside of the overhead, just forward of the hatch opening. It was sheltered there but when I went below I kept bashing it with my head until the poor thing died. The new compass is still in its box. Any other suggestions for mounting it? Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220, the lovely Martha C __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5259 (20100707) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5260 (20100707) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > > > when I had number Cal 20 #240 I mounted on one bulkhead and simply > took a reference glance for the next tack. That always works well. Ah, but this runs into my phobia about cutting holes in the boat. That's why I bought the bracket compass (also because the bracket compass doesn't sit out in the sun during the 99% of its life when it's not in use). Chris Campbell

Chris, The cockpit volume of a Cal 20 is 15.3 cubic ft.. This is 119 gallons or 970lbs When you sail in waves over 3' AND you remove the plug, the action of the waves pushing the stern up and down will shoot a column of water into the cockpit and it will quickly fill to the level where it intrudes into the cabin. It is just not a "bit" of water. When racing in the Ocean I keep a 1/2 board(with a 3" lighted compass mounted) in place at all times when weather calls for it or the spinnaker is up. This is because I choose not to rely on the well for secure drainage, in fact I have filled the well with flotation in the boat that I do not class race. A Cal 20 was lost when in tow at night when the plug dislodged and the towing vessel was not aware in time to save it. Water from the well filled the cabin. At sea I keep my 4man raft in the cockpit as far forward as it will go. Furthermore it is difficult to remove the plug and retrieve at speed over 3k. I sail singlehanded and with crew in SF Bay and the Gulf of the Farallons and I believe cockpit drains should be capable of clearing the cockpit of a Cal20 in 3 minutes or less when filled at the dock from a hose to the level of the seat tops. I know that both my Cal 20's Coyote and Rambler will do this because I have filled them both up and checked how long it takes to clear the water. You may wish to practice by putting a plug into the stock Cal20 drain and then removing the O/B well plug or just remove the drain plug and time how long it takes the cockpit to drain. If this satisfies you and you sail in protected waters more drainage capacity will not be necessary. My Best, Mike ps Robert Crawford's book : Black Feathers, A Pocket Racer Sails The Singlehanded Trans Pac, available at Amazon.com Has expicit detail on this and a lot of other subjects. From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 7:06:12 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement mike farrell wrote: > I don't know what you all big boat sailors do but I added 2 1.5 inch >drains. My cal 20 willl empty the cockpit well in less than 1.5m. I sail in the >Gulf 0f the Farallones, one mistake will kill you. My Cal 20 is sailed in considerably more placid waters usually, but the essence of competent sailing is being prepared for any weather and sea conditions. So when I look at the Cal 20 cockpit--big, no bridge deck--I am comforted by that great big hole called an outboard well. Until this season, it has always had an outboard motor in it, and a baffle around its lower unit made out of an old rubber mudflap to keep the well from filling up my cockpit under sail. It would still allow great volumes of water to drain out fairly quickly. This season my outboard has been on strike and I've been using the original Jensen Marine well plug. (Then that went on strike too, from dry rot in the wooden frame, but it's been cured with mahogany and epoxy). The boat is happier without having to drag that outboard around. The plug works well to keep water out but it would tend to keep it in, too, if the cockpit filled. I guess that if I were in big seas, I would not be worrying about a bit of water sloshing in from the well, and I'd just remove the plug. In the alternative, it would be easy to build a second plug, one with some holes in it to let water flow out. You don't need much of a baffle to keep water from sloshing in--I used my outboard motor baffle with out the motor in place, which is to say, with a big hole in the middle, while I was repairing the well plug. It worked pretty well. The lack of bridge deck can be dealt with by putting the companionway drop board in place, or my making one half-sized that filled only the lower portion of the companionway. I'm thinking about doing that, mostly so I have a place to mount a compass bracket. I used to have the compass mounted on the underside of the overhead, just forward of the hatch opening. It was sheltered there but when I went below I kept bashing it with my head until the poor thing died. The new compass is still in its box. Any other suggestions for mounting it? Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220, the lovely Martha C

It is my understanding that the 29 originally came as in outboard powered base model. This being the case, I was considering cutting the transom on my 29-2 to match that outboard configuration. The reason for this is twofold; First it would allow an easy way in and out for swimming and secondly would allow the use of my 8hp dinghy motor in case of inboard engine failure. Any thoughts? Anyone have pictures or drawings of the outboard models transom Joe 1972 29-2 PETUNIA --- On Tue, 7/6/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 5:52 PM Sounds wonderful, However I'd like to keep it simple and sea worthy. Gates have a way of coming apart in a breaking sea...:) I guess Im just gonna have to spend an afternoon on me back again once I get back to the boat to sort out the design requirements. /ch

I have the brocures for the Cal 29, the only configurations are inboard, an Atomic 4 gasoline was standard and the Universal diesel was an option. Swiss Navy was hull # 1.&nbsp; There was an Candian charter company who bought alot of Cal 29s and removed the inboards and added Yamaha outboards to the transums.&nbsp; Randy Cal 2-29 Out Patient -- Sent from my Palm Pixi On Jul 8, 2010 8:13, Joseph McCloskey &lt;jj… [at] yahoo.com&gt; wrote: &nbsp; It is my understanding that the 29 originally came as in outboard powered base model. This being the case, I was considering cutting the transom on my 29-2 to match that outboard configuration. The reason for this is twofold; First it would allow an easy way in and out for swimming and secondly would allow the use of my 8hp dinghy motor in case of inboard engine failure. Any thoughts? Anyone have pictures or drawings of the outboard models transom Joe 1972 29-2 PETUNIA --- On Tue, 7/6/10, chris123 &lt;ch… [at] gmail.com&gt; wrote: From: chris123 &lt;ch… [at] gmail.com&gt; Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement (Chris) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 5:52 PM &nbsp; Sounds wonderful, However I'd like to keep it simple and sea worthy. Gates have a way of coming apart in a breaking sea...:) I guess Im just gonna have to spend an afternoon on me back again once I get back to the boat to sort out the design requirements. /ch

mike farrell wrote: > > > ps Robert Crawford's book : Black Feathers, A Pocket Racer Sails The > Singlehanded Trans Pac, available at Amazon.com Has expicit detail on > this and a lot of other subjects. I've been intending to buy that book and now will make a better effort to find it. Thanks, Chris > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > **

Chris, I will send a copy to you if you wish, I have 2. My Best, Mike From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 8, 2010 1:05:15 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement mike farrell wrote: > > >ps Robert Crawford's book : Black Feathers, A Pocket Racer Sails The >Singlehanded Trans Pac, available at Amazon.com Has expicit detail on this and a >lot of other subjects. I've been intending to buy that book and now will make a better effort to find it. Thanks, Chris > >

mike farrell wrote: > > Chris, > I will send a copy to you if you wish, I have 2. I'll get back to you if I can't find it locally. I'm a genuine cheapskate but not when it comes to supporting small authors and the local bookstore (a two-fer). Let's see if I can find it. Thanks for the offer. Chris >

I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel address and i'll send it along. I will be interested in what another cal 20 sailor thinks. My best, Mike From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, July 9, 2010 1:14:52 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement mike farrell wrote: >Chris, > I will send a copy to you if you wish, I have 2. I'll get back to you if I can't find it locally. I'm a genuine cheapskate but not when it comes to supporting small authors and the local bookstore (a two-fer). Let's see if I can find it. Thanks for the offer. Chris >

mike farrell wrote: > > I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel > address and i'll send it along. I will be interested in what another > cal 20 sailor thinks. OK, I'm at 116 Monroe St., Traverse City, MI 49684. And I was discussing cheapness yesterday and concluded that the right word is not "cheap," it's frugal. I save money for important things, like boats. Parents grew up in the Depression so they knew the value of money and made sure we did too. Let's face it, you've got to be frugal to buy a $900 Cal 20, but I bet I've had more fun for my $900 than the owners of the floating condos have for their expenditure. The Cal 20 actually goes sailing. She does a pretty respectable job of it, as you know. Cigarettes are about $6 a pack for off-brand here in Michigan, it seems. That makes my Cal 20 the same price as 150 days of smoking. Which lasts longer? Chris Campbell >

I know you all have had this experience in the value of owning a good old sailboat...... Last Wednesday I was waiting my turn in front of the fuel dock whilst one of the aforementioned floating condos was filling up. He said that he took on about 1000 gallons of diesel fuel. I replied that it represented about 30 seasons for me. I waited 25 minutes for my turn and was fueled and paid my bill in less than 7 minutes. Chris is right. I don't think that guy was having any more fun than I was. We went over to our local beer can race that evening and kicked butt with our good old Cal. Terry Spencer Cal 2-29 Capriccio Tacoma, WA On Jul 12, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Chris Campbell wrote: > mike farrell wrote: > >> >> I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel address and i'll send it along. I will be interested in what another cal 20 sailor thinks. > > OK, I'm at 116 Monroe St., Traverse City, MI 49684. > > And I was discussing cheapness yesterday and concluded that the right word is not "cheap," it's frugal. I save money for important things, like boats. Parents grew up in the Depression so they knew the value of money and made sure we did too. Let's face it, you've got to be frugal to buy a $900 Cal 20, but I bet I've had more fun for my $900 than the owners of the floating condos have for their expenditure. The Cal 20 actually goes sailing. She does a pretty respectable job of it, as you know. Cigarettes are about $6 a pack for off-brand here in Michigan, it seems. That makes my Cal 20 the same price as 150 days of smoking. Which lasts longer? > > Chris Campbell >> > > >

Yesterday, we kicked butt too...Cal 29. light air up to 15 knots at finish line. With a light air beam reach start and 11.4 mi. to go. We used a 155 and one 1/8" diameter sheet and walk away from our biggest comp. a Santana 35. We finished with 5min. corrected time. Cal 29s rock! We only turn on the motor to charge up batteries as we head to the start line...In the 6 years that I have been on Nefertiti, I can not remember adding more than 3 gallons of gasoline. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Spencer To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] was: CAL 29 drain hole enlargement Now: Sailing Value I know you all have had this experience in the value of owning a good old sailboat...... Last Wednesday I was waiting my turn in front of the fuel dock whilst one of the aforementioned floating condos was filling up. He said that he took on about 1000 gallons of diesel fuel. I replied that it represented about 30 seasons for me. I waited 25 minutes for my turn and was fueled and paid my bill in less than 7 minutes. Chris is right. I don't think that guy was having any more fun than I was. We went over to our local beer can race that evening and kicked butt with our good old Cal. Terry Spencer Cal 2-29 Capriccio Tacoma, WA On Jul 12, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Chris Campbell wrote: mike farrell wrote: I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel address and i'll send it along. I will be interested in what another cal 20 sailor thinks. OK, I'm at 116 Monroe St., Traverse City, MI 49684. And I was discussing cheapness yesterday and concluded that the right word is not "cheap," it's frugal. I save money for important things, like boats. Parents grew up in the Depression so they knew the value of money and made sure we did too. Let's face it, you've got to be frugal to buy a $900 Cal 20, but I bet I've had more fun for my $900 than the owners of the floating condos have for their expenditure. The Cal 20 actually goes sailing. She does a pretty respectable job of it, as you know. Cigarettes are about $6 a pack for off-brand here in Michigan, it seems. That makes my Cal 20 the same price as 150 days of smoking. Which lasts longer? Chris Campbell __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5273 (20100712) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5273 (20100712) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

I sent it to Chris in London Ontario. He may pass it to you when he has used it. My Best, Mike From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, July 12, 2010 1:30:56 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement mike farrell wrote: > I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel address and >i'll send it along. I will be interested in what another cal 20 sailor thinks. OK, I'm at 116 Monroe St., Traverse City, MI 49684. And I was discussing cheapness yesterday and concluded that the right word is not "cheap," it's frugal. I save money for important things, like boats. Parents grew up in the Depression so they knew the value of money and made sure we did too. Let's face it, you've got to be frugal to buy a $900 Cal 20, but I bet I've had more fun for my $900 than the owners of the floating condos have for their expenditure. The Cal 20 actually goes sailing. She does a pretty respectable job of it, as you know. Cigarettes are about $6 a pack for off-brand here in Michigan, it seems. That makes my Cal 20 the same price as 150 days of smoking. Which lasts longer? Chris Campbell >

Chris C.....I guess I get the frugal award. Once read, will ping you off list and forward it to your mailing address. It was a requirement that I pass it on.. /ch

My Dad was a depression survivor. He would come to my house and turn off lights in any room not immediately occupied. Frugal is a better word, yes it.s true. Cheap sounds,well cheap. Maybe Eco friendly is the New Cheap? I bought a 1/2 share of Cal 20 #1535 in 1972 for $500 Sailed the bottom off her in SF Bay. In May 2008 I bought Cal 20 #1114 with North and Ulman sails and a trailer and an o/b for $1500. Maybe Jerry Sobel can use his candy bar economic converter to equate these values. Now for the big however: I have changed nearly everything that could be improved, lightened. Yesterday at 3pm Steve Seal was handed 10 $100 bills for a new bare mast and new rigging wire. A failed fore stay and a serious crack at the spreaders hold down bolt area of the mast in race 4 of the GGYC made this necessary. Still cheap, the mast that is, Thank God Steve bought the die from Jensen Marine to extrude the Jensen section. Sailboats cost money and while I could have perhaps used a salvage mast I did not want to do so. We have conditions here on SF Bay that will seek out flaws in the blink of an eye. Riding to West Basin SF Marina with the new spar section trailing behind on the Cal 20 boat trailer was a happy moment for me. This will be mast 3 for Rambler Coyote Cal 20 #61 was given to me about a year ago to keep her from the dumpster. Last Friday in her debut race she placed 2nd to a very well sailed J105 in the spinnaker division. In terms of 2010 $$$ she is priceless,. I calculate some where at 2 to 3 hundred hours for her restoration and and now at 150 hour point. Steve Seal tells me I need to stiffen the spar with a sleeve 6 feet long as the early Sparcraft masts broke at the sail feed slot when vanged hard. My Wife says"Are you going to see your girlfriend?" I have 2 girlfriends Rambler and Coyote. They are both more like the family dogs than girlfriends. Dependable, true and devoted and only asking for love and attention in return. My Best, Mike From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, July 12, 2010 1:30:56 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 29 drain hole enlargement mike farrell wrote: > I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel address and >i'll send it along. I will be interested in what another cal 20 sailor thinks. OK, I'm at 116 Monroe St., Traverse City, MI 49684. And I was discussing cheapness yesterday and concluded that the right word is not "cheap," it's frugal. I save money for important things, like boats. Parents grew up in the Depression so they knew the value of money and made sure we did too. Let's face it, you've got to be frugal to buy a $900 Cal 20, but I bet I've had more fun for my $900 than the owners of the floating condos have for their expenditure. The Cal 20 actually goes sailing. She does a pretty respectable job of it, as you know. Cigarettes are about $6 a pack for off-brand here in Michigan, it seems. That makes my Cal 20 the same price as 150 days of smoking. Which lasts longer? Chris Campbell >

Terry Spencer wrote: > > > I know you all have had this experience in the value of owning a good > old sailboat.... .. > > > Last Wednesday I was waiting my turn in front of the fuel dock whilst > one of the aforementioned floating condos was filling up. He said > that he took on about 1000 gallons of diesel fuel. I replied that it > represented about 30 seasons for me. I waited 25 minutes for my turn > and was fueled and paid my bill in less than 7 minutes. > > Chris is right. I don't think that guy was having any more fun than I > was. We went over to our local beer can race that evening and kicked > butt with our good old Cal. My other old boat lives a mile up a river. Last weekend I was able to sail down the river, powering up just long enough to get past the wind shadow of the electric power plant at the mouth, and also managed to sail back up the river. Usually I only get to sail one way and must depend on the outboard for the other way. But the area is heavy with these huge V-8 power boats, unmuffled exhausts, all pretending to be ocean racers. Gas sells at the marina for $3.99 (it's good, non-alcohol gas, and they also have close to a monopoly). How do those guys afford those huge gas-suckers? And the next question, of course, is why do they? They roar out into the Bay, anchor all day at a shallow spot, and then roar back again, considerably poorer. I use maybe 10-15 gallons of outboard gas a year, and each sail is a rich experience in itself. And then we have the Cal 20, which has sailed all summer without any power because she's on a mooring. Problem is, to take others sailing, I have to be able to power in to the various pick-up points. So last night I did the outboard switch, mounting a little 3 hp OB so I could power in to a dock and switch for the 6 hp OB that I have repaired (the shift linkage had come apart internally). This was not a simple procedure. Put bike and OB in truck. Drive to dock. Carry awkward OB 300 yards or so to dock; lock it to cleat. Ride bike to dinghy; row dinghy to boat; mount 3 hp engine; power (VERY slowly into head winds & seas) to dock; switch motors; power back to mooring; row back to shore; ride bike back to truck; retrieve 3 hp OB from dock. Meanwhile, the leg I scratched when getting the 6 hp motor out of the garage is still bleeding. I'll probably pull the OB from the well and dump it in the cockpit locker because the boat certainly sails better without that big thing dragging through the water. It's just such a pain horsing the long-shaft motor around. But the point is that my boats go sailing, and at a very low cost (the fun to dollar ratio is very favorable). Chris Campbell > > Terry Spencer > Cal 2-29 > Capriccio > Tacoma, WA > > > On Jul 12, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Chris Campbell wrote: > >> >> >> mike farrell wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel >>> address and i'll send it along. I will be interested in what >>> another cal 20 sailor thinks. >> >> OK, I'm at 116 Monroe St., Traverse City, MI 49684. >> >> And I was discussing cheapness yesterday and concluded that the right >> word is not "cheap," it's frugal. I save money for important things, >> like boats. Parents grew up in the Depression so they knew the value >> of money and made sure we did too. Let's face it, you've got to be >> frugal to buy a $900 Cal 20, but I bet I've had more fun for my $900 >> than the owners of the floating condos have for their expenditure. >> The Cal 20 actually goes sailing. She does a pretty respectable job >> of it, as you know. Cigarettes are about $6 a pack for off-brand >> here in Michigan, it seems. That makes my Cal 20 the same price as >> 150 days of smoking. Which lasts longer? >> >> Chris Campbell >>> >> >> > >

$0 (free boat) + 20 years * $250 (slip) * 12 + $75,000 (repairs) + $20,000 (sails) + $700 (gas) / 20 * 12 * 2 (sailing trips) = $325 / trip. Never do this calculation. Allen On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Chris Campbell < cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: > > > Terry Spencer wrote: > > > > I know you all have had this experience in the value of owning a good old > sailboat.... .. > > Last Wednesday I was waiting my turn in front of the fuel dock whilst one > of the aforementioned floating condos was filling up. He said that he took > on about 1000 gallons of diesel fuel. I replied that it represented about > 30 seasons for me. I waited 25 minutes for my turn and was fueled and paid > my bill in less than 7 minutes. > > Chris is right. I don't think that guy was having any more fun than I > was. We went over to our local beer can race that evening and kicked butt > with our good old Cal. > > > My other old boat lives a mile up a river. Last weekend I was able to sail > down the river, powering up just long enough to get past the wind shadow of > the electric power plant at the mouth, and also managed to sail back up the > river. Usually I only get to sail one way and must depend on the outboard > for the other way. But the area is heavy with these huge V-8 power boats, > unmuffled exhausts, all pretending to be ocean racers. Gas sells at the > marina for $3.99 (it's good, non-alcohol gas, and they also have close to a > monopoly). How do those guys afford those huge gas-suckers? And the next > question, of course, is why do they? They roar out into the Bay, anchor all > day at a shallow spot, and then roar back again, considerably poorer. I use > maybe 10-15 gallons of outboard gas a year, and each sail is a rich > experience in itself. > > And then we have the Cal 20, which has sailed all summer without any power > because she's on a mooring. Problem is, to take others sailing, I have to > be able to power in to the various pick-up points. > > So last night I did the outboard switch, mounting a little 3 hp OB so I > could power in to a dock and switch for the 6 hp OB that I have repaired > (the shift linkage had come apart internally). This was not a simple > procedure. Put bike and OB in truck. Drive to dock. Carry awkward OB 300 > yards or so to dock; lock it to cleat. Ride bike to dinghy; row dinghy to > boat; mount 3 hp engine; power (VERY slowly into head winds & seas) to dock; > switch motors; power back to mooring; row back to shore; ride bike back to > truck; retrieve 3 hp OB from dock. Meanwhile, the leg I scratched when > getting the 6 hp motor out of the garage is still bleeding. > > I'll probably pull the OB from the well and dump it in the cockpit locker > because the boat certainly sails better without that big thing dragging > through the water. It's just such a pain horsing the long-shaft motor > around. > > But the point is that my boats go sailing, and at a very low cost (the fun > to dollar ratio is very favorable). > > Chris Campbell > > > Terry Spencer > Cal 2-29 > Capriccio > Tacoma, WA > > > On Jul 12, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > > > mike farrell wrote: > > > I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel > address and i'll send it along. I will be interested in what another cal 20 > sailor thinks. > > > OK, I'm at 116 Monroe St., Traverse City, MI 49684. > > And I was discussing cheapness yesterday and concluded that the right word > is not "cheap," it's frugal. I save money for important things, like > boats. Parents grew up in the Depression so they knew the value of money > and made sure we did too. Let's face it, you've got to be frugal to buy a > $900 Cal 20, but I bet I've had more fun for my $900 than the owners of the > floating condos have for their expenditure. The Cal 20 actually goes > sailing. She does a pretty respectable job of it, as you know. Cigarettes > are about $6 a pack for off-brand here in Michigan, it seems. That makes my > Cal 20 the same price as 150 days of smoking. Which lasts longer? > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > > >

Allen Edwards wrote: > > > $0 (free boat) + 20 years * $250 (slip) * 12 + $75,000 (repairs) + > $20,000 (sails) + $700 (gas) / 20 * 12 * 2 (sailing trips) = $325 / trip. > > > Never do this calculation. No, no, no, you _should_ do this calculation. A number of years ago, my brother was visiting and asked me, "have you figured the per-trip cost of owning the boat?" I said no, but did a quick calculation in my head, and it was not favorable. So, what's easier to change in the cost-to-trip ratio? It's time spent on the boat. I resolved to go sailing more. I actually started taking a day off each week in the summer, just to go sailing. It was the beginning of rationality in the work-life balance thing, too. Chris Campbell >

One of the great OB's I came across is the 1960's-70's 6hp Evinrude Sportsman long shaft. Lots of power and the weight well max 50 lbs. These are indestructible if reasonably maintained. The only drawback is that a generator cannot be fitted and they are 2 stroke, so you need to mix oil and gas. Other then that....priceless. The long shaft version of these are outstanding and typically under 300 bucks or less. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/classifieds /showproduct.php?product=17757 Very reluctantly I sold mine as part of a package to denude myself of 2 project boats. The package included 2 sailboats, one double axle trailer, one motor and tank, one cradle, and all standing and running rigging and complete set of 5 sails. So all the CS22's have been sold. All that is left is a project CAL 20 and much lesser project CAL-29. Standard joke (and a bad one) 49 feet of CAL....;) Best regards /ch

Yes, Chris, quite an engine. It was almost identical to the Johnson 6 of the time. These were the standard CAL 25 engines. Later on, the Nissan 8 2-stroke was wonderful. A bit heavier, but twice as powerful. Long lasting. Meanwhile, in the 4-strokes, anything 8 horses or higher comes in a form factor that is over 100 lb. These are the two cylinder ones. The largest 4-stroke 1 cylinder (say 55-60 lb) is 6 horses, and rattles like an SOB. Unfortunately, the Nissan 8s are so highly regarded, they are hard to find. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:38 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] was: CAL 29 drain hole enlargement Now: Sailing Value One of the great OB's I came across is the 1960's-70's 6hp Evinrude Sportsman long shaft. Lots of power and the weight well max 50 lbs. These are indestructible if reasonably maintained. The only drawback is that a generator cannot be fitted and they are 2 stroke, so you need to mix oil and gas. Other then that....priceless. The long shaft version of these are outstanding and typically under 300 bucks or less. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/classifieds /showproduct.php?product=17757 Very reluctantly I sold mine as part of a package to denude myself of 2 project boats. The package included 2 sailboats, one double axle trailer, one motor and tank, one cradle, and all standing and running rigging and complete set of 5 sails. So all the CS22's have been sold. All that is left is a project CAL 20 and much lesser project CAL-29. Standard joke (and a bad one) 49 feet of CAL....;) Best regards /ch

Thanks Charlie....will keep an eye out for one as I will need something for the CAL-20. Johnson's were not popular up here but good to know. No big rush as I'm not going to touch it till the 29 comes home or is done. So the search list has been expanded (Jonhson, Evinrude, Nissan) ....tks...:) Last night I downloaded the charts for Cuba. Perhaps I will just make a big old right turn at Cape May...:) With the conditions in the Gulf being as they are, it will be a while for us Northerners to get excited again to make the trek to the Keys. Cant beat Marathon however even if only to provision. As said before who knows and it don't matter much, right or left its all good....once back on board. Can't wait. /ch

Odin Braathen (owner of a Cal-34 and a Cal-40) gave this to me. Pretty interesting. It's the Jensen Marine pamphlet describing how the boats were built. Fin.

Pretty fantastic! I'd really like to get the original and put together a higher resolution scan. Neat! dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fin Beven Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:36 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; 1-Cal40Web07; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_OdinBraathen Subject: [Cal_Boats] How to build a Cal-34 [8 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Fin Beven included below] Odin Braathen (owner of a Cal-34 and a Cal-40) gave this to me. Pretty interesting. It's the Jensen Marine pamphlet describing how the boats were built. Fin.

Ooooppps... there is a resolution selector on the site, if you set it to original, the pictures clean up. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ti… [at] ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:53 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] How to build a Cal-34 Pretty fantastic! I'd really like to get the original and put together a higher resolution scan. Neat! dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fin Beven Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:36 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; 1-Cal40Web07; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_OdinBraathen Subject: [Cal_Boats] How to build a Cal-34 [8 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Fin Beven included below] Odin Braathen (owner of a Cal-34 and a Cal-40) gave this to me. Pretty interesting. It's the Jensen Marine pamphlet describing how the boats were built. Fin.

Fin, Pretty good reading. Thanks for posting this. Hope Odin is well. I miss his knowledge on the list. I noticed that they didn't include a half hull silhouette of the 2-30 though it was listed at the bottom of the last page. Do you know what year this was printed? I saw a Cal 48 sailing off the coast of Santa Barbara a couple of times but I haven't seen it in a couple of years. Do you know anything about it? Wilkie On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:35 PM, Fin Beven wrote: > [Attachment(s) from Fin Beven included below] > > Odin Braathen (owner of a Cal-34 and a Cal-40) gave this to me. Pretty > interesting. > > It's the Jensen Marine pamphlet describing how the boats were built. > > Fin. > >

Way cool. Thanks Fin --- On Tue, 7/13/10, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] cox.net> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] cox.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] How to build a Cal-34 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 6:11 PM Fin, Pretty good reading. Thanks for posting this. Hope Odin is well. I miss his knowledge on the list. I noticed that they didn't include a half hull silhouette of the 2-30 though it was listed at the bottom of the last page. Do you know what year this was printed? I saw a Cal 48 sailing off the coast of Santa Barbara a couple of times but I haven't seen it in a couple of years. Do you know anything about it? Wilkie On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:35 PM, Fin Beven wrote: [Attachment(s) from Fin Beven included below] Odin Braathen (owner of a Cal-34 and a Cal-40) gave this to me. Pretty interesting. It's the Jensen Marine pamphlet describing how the boats were built. Fin.

Allen is right. Never do that calculation, especially we 3rd coast folks. I never tell my spouse what I spend. I can afford it, so it's my way to help the economy. If I can no longer afford my boat it will go up for sale. David Dobbs, Cal29 411 --- On Tue, 7/13/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] was: CAL 29 drain hole enlargement Now: Sailing Value To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 9:33 AM $0 (free boat) + 20 years * $250 (slip) * 12 + $75,000 (repairs) + $20,000 (sails) + $700 (gas) / 20 * 12 * 2 (sailing trips) = $325 / trip. Never do this calculation. Allen On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> wrote: Terry Spencer wrote: I know you all have had this experience in the value of owning a good old sailboat.... .. Last Wednesday I was waiting my turn in front of the fuel dock whilst one of the aforementioned floating condos was filling up. He said that he took on about 1000 gallons of diesel fuel. I replied that it represented about 30 seasons for me. I waited 25 minutes for my turn and was fueled and paid my bill in less than 7 minutes. Chris is right. I don't think that guy was having any more fun than I was. We went over to our local beer can race that evening and kicked butt with our good old Cal. My other old boat lives a mile up a river. Last weekend I was able to sail down the river, powering up just long enough to get past the wind shadow of the electric power plant at the mouth, and also managed to sail back up the river. Usually I only get to sail one way and must depend on the outboard for the other way. But the area is heavy with these huge V-8 power boats, unmuffled exhausts, all pretending to be ocean racers. Gas sells at the marina for $3.99 (it's good, non-alcohol gas, and they also have close to a monopoly). How do those guys afford those huge gas-suckers? And the next question, of course, is why do they? They roar out into the Bay, anchor all day at a shallow spot, and then roar back again, considerably poorer. I use maybe 10-15 gallons of outboard gas a year, and each sail is a rich experience in itself. And then we have the Cal 20, which has sailed all summer without any power because she's on a mooring. Problem is, to take others sailing, I have to be able to power in to the various pick-up points. So last night I did the outboard switch, mounting a little 3 hp OB so I could power in to a dock and switch for the 6 hp OB that I have repaired (the shift linkage had come apart internally). This was not a simple procedure. Put bike and OB in truck. Drive to dock. Carry awkward OB 300 yards or so to dock; lock it to cleat. Ride bike to dinghy; row dinghy to boat; mount 3 hp engine; power (VERY slowly into head winds & seas) to dock; switch motors; power back to mooring; row back to shore; ride bike back to truck; retrieve 3 hp OB from dock. Meanwhile, the leg I scratched when getting the 6 hp motor out of the garage is still bleeding. I'll probably pull the OB from the well and dump it in the cockpit locker because the boat certainly sails better without that big thing dragging through the water. It's just such a pain horsing the long-shaft motor around. But the point is that my boats go sailing, and at a very low cost (the fun to dollar ratio is very favorable). Chris Campbell Terry Spencer Cal 2-29 Capriccio Tacoma, WA On Jul 12, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Chris Campbell wrote: mike farrell wrote: I'm cheaper than you are! Ha ha. Any way send me your postel address and i'll send it along. I will be interested in what another cal 20 sailor thinks. OK, I'm at 116 Monroe St., Traverse City, MI 49684. And I was discussing cheapness yesterday and concluded that the right word is not "cheap," it's frugal. I save money for important things, like boats. Parents grew up in the Depression so they knew the value of money and made sure we did too. Let's face it, you've got to be frugal to buy a $900 Cal 20, but I bet I've had more fun for my $900 than the owners of the floating condos have for their expenditure. The Cal 20 actually goes sailing. She does a pretty respectable job of it, as you know. Cigarettes are about $6 a pack for off-brand here in Michigan, it seems. That makes my Cal 20 the same price as 150 days of smoking. Which lasts longer? Chris Campbell

Still available at a very reasonable cost. Suitable for a CAL-20 or other. http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/boa/1840335033.html /ch

chris123 wrote: > > > One of the great OB's I came across is the 1960's-70's 6hp Evinrude > Sportsman long shaft. Lots of power and the weight well max 50 lbs. > These are indestructible if reasonably maintained. The only drawback > is that a generator cannot be fitted and they are 2 stroke, so you > need to mix oil and gas. Other then that....priceless. > > The long shaft version of these are outstanding and typically under > 300 bucks or less. > That's exactly the power source for my Cal 20. When I bought the boat, I found a used Evinrude 6 hp long shaft, a 1967 model for my 1967 boat. This spring, on launch day, the shift linkage failed as I was backing away from the trailer. "Why won't this @#$%&***!!!! thing stop going in reverse???" I finally found time to fix it (short, steep learning curve on how to release & secure things in it) and yesterday I posted a description of the engine switch. I had kept a little old Evinrude 3 hp fishing motor aboard as the emergency back-up power for when the wind fails. I used that to reach the dock for the engine swap. Wow, it thrashed valiantly, with lots of noise and vibration, but made little progress into the choppy head seas. The 6 hp is a lot heavier, but it's also much more powerful. One problem with the Evinrude 6 hp is that it has no adjustable throttle friction, and mine had a tendency to back off on the throttle spontaneously. Very inconvenient. I finally added some milk-bottle plastic under a pivot point, to squeeze the rotating shaft and add friction. Now it has a throttle that stays put. The only problem with the 6 hp long shaft is that it's heavy and awkward to handle. I'm less likely to pull it from the well ansd stow it below, or once it's stowed, to put it back in the well. A really light motor would be cool for the Cal 20. Chris Campbell > > > <http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/classifieds> >

The low hp honda's get great reviews. A friend has one, but at 1000 bucks for a Cal 20 hmmmm... Never had the throttle issues you describe. Interesting. Its still in the yard for delivery this weekend, so will take a quick look at it and take some pictures for personal reference. The one thing I was wondering about wrt to the Cal 20 and engine placement: rear bracket or use the well. Ive seen both configs and sailed Chris B's Cal 20 which uses the well. I guess its a matter of trade offs. Weight at the stern once its kicked up or wrestle with it to get it out of the well and keep the boat dry. Would love to hear about your preferences. Best regards /ch

chris123 wrote: > > > The low hp honda's get great reviews. A friend has one, but at 1000 > bucks for a Cal 20 hmmmm... Never had the throttle issues you > describe. Interesting. Its still in the yard for delivery this > weekend, so will take a quick look at it and take some pictures for > personal reference. > > The one thing I was wondering about wrt to the Cal 20 and engine > placement: rear bracket or use the well. Ive seen both configs and > sailed Chris B's Cal 20 which uses the well. I guess its a matter of > trade offs. Weight at the stern once its kicked up or wrestle with it > to get it out of the well and keep the boat dry. > I've used the well because my boat did not come with a bracket, and I don't really like the looks of the thing on a bracket, or messing up the transom with one. The plus of the bracket is diminishing drag by lifting the OB out of the water. I'm not sure weight is a serious problem, because if you use the well and stash the outboard in the cockpit locker, it's very near the stern anyway. The only weight advantage is if you stash the OB down in the cabin right over the keel. Also, a bracket OB is more likely to lift out of the water and aspirate in seas, when you may need the drive the most. I liked the way my boat sailed along this summer with no OB in place. She has always had one in the well, because I need it when the wind dies or when I need to putt to a dock to pick up passengers. My dinghy is too tiny for passengers, and the pick-up points are very hard to sail into. But I'm thinking about leaving the motor in the locker except when it's needed. The only reason not to is the awkward process of stowing it and placing it back in the well. Stowing has the additional advantage of avoiding corrosion or the need for any antifouling treatment. Chris Campbell

On my brothers Cal 20 he had a bracket on stern and a Honda. The transom flexed horibley when throttling. I have had two cal 20s both utilizing the engine well with an old trusty 6hp evenrude. I almost always sailed in and out of slip but made many trips to Catalina Island sail and motoring. When sailing, I would simply insert the plug and baffel into the well and when motoring remove the baffel and plug insert the evenrude and away we went. My only issue was exhaust fumes on a still day. They can accumulate around the motor and starve the carb of air causing the motor to loose some RPMS..with that said I would rather have the weight off of the stern and into the locker when sailing. the boat will perform better under sail. Additionally if you have tried to start a stuborn motor off the stern? it much easier in the well and you can also take the motor apart ...plugs etc with out loosing overboard when in the well and test without moving. Mark Cal 2-29 Pelican San Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] was: CAL 29 drain hole enlargement Now: Sailing Value chris123 wrote: The low hp honda's get great reviews. A friend has one, but at 1000 bucks for a Cal 20 hmmmm... Never had the throttle issues you describe. Interesting. Its still in the yard for delivery this weekend, so will take a quick look at it and take some pictures for personal reference. The one thing I was wondering about wrt to the Cal 20 and engine placement: rear bracket or use the well. Ive seen both configs and sailed Chris B's Cal 20 which uses the well. I guess its a matter of trade offs. Weight at the stern once its kicked up or wrestle with it to get it out of the well and keep the boat dry. I've used the well because my boat did not come with a bracket, and I don't really like the looks of the thing on a bracket, or messing up the transom with one. The plus of the bracket is diminishing drag by lifting the OB out of the water. I'm not sure weight is a serious problem, because if you use the well and stash the outboard in the cockpit locker, it's very near the stern anyway. The only weight advantage is if you stash the OB down in the cabin right over the keel. Also, a bracket OB is more likely to lift out of the water and aspirate in seas, when you may need the drive the most. I liked the way my boat sailed along this summer with no OB in place. She has always had one in the well, because I need it when the wind dies or when I need to putt to a dock to pick up passengers. My dinghy is too tiny for passengers, and the pick-up points are very hard to sail into. But I'm thinking about leaving the motor in the locker except when it's needed. The only reason not to is the awkward process of stowing it and placing it back in the well. Stowing has the additional advantage of avoiding corrosion or the need for any antifouling treatment. Chris Campbell __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5278 (20100714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5278 (20100714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Tks Chris.C all good points. Wrt cavitation, I had that issue on the CS22 when I went forward under power but it was a function of how the bracket was set. Lowering the bracket did the trick for the old evinrude. /ch

The last points you made are important. Thanks to both of you. I now know where to put it...:) /ch