Questions for the group

As ya'll may know my beloved cal 2-29 is up for sale due to life changes. I am contemplating replacing her with a cal 20. I have a couple of questions. 1. Is the Cal 20 reasonably ramp launchable? If so, how is this accomplished? 2. What do I need to watch out for when I am looking at Cal 20's? 3. Do I have to change my name to Chris if I purchase a Cal 20? Rick Lobb Cal 2-29 "Rebecca Shea" Bellingham, WA

Answer to your last---NO Get a Cal 20 that has not been painted or otherwise molested. Look for stress cracks. If you wish a family boat gof or after hull 675. Boats with the "New Interior" are more cruise friendly. Many boats have had "Improvments" Most need to be removed. Keep it simple. My Best,. Mike From: Rick Lobb <lr… [at] qwest.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 4:19:25 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group As ya'll may know my beloved cal 2-29 is up for sale due to life changes. I am contemplating replacing her with a cal 20. I have a couple of questions. 1. Is the Cal 20 reasonably ramp launchable? If so, how is this accomplished? 2. What do I need to watch out for when I am looking at Cal 20's? 3. Do I have to change my name to Chris if I purchase a Cal 20? Rick Lobb Cal 2-29 "Rebecca Shea" Bellingham, WA ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

For Chris Lobb: Hope you enjoy the 20. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:33 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group Answer to your last---NO Get a Cal 20 that has not been painted or otherwise molested. Look for stress cracks. If you wish a family boat gof or after hull 675. Boats with the "New Interior" are more cruise friendly. Many boats have had "Improvments" Most need to be removed. Keep it simple. My Best,. Mike From: Rick Lobb <lr… [at] qwest.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 4:19:25 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group As ya'll may know my beloved cal 2-29 is up for sale due to life changes. I am contemplating replacing her with a cal 20. I have a couple of questions. 1. Is the Cal 20 reasonably ramp launchable? If so, how is this accomplished? 2. What do I need to watch out for when I am looking at Cal 20's? 3. Do I have to change my name to Chris if I purchase a Cal 20? Rick Lobb Cal 2-29 "Rebecca Shea" Bellingham, WA ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Rick Lobb wrote: > > > As ya'll may know my beloved cal 2-29 is up for sale due to life > changes. I > am contemplating replacing her with a cal 20. I have a couple of > questions. > > 1. Is the Cal 20 reasonably ramp launchable? If so, how is this > accomplished? > Mine is launched and retrieved from a trailer on a ramp each year. Because of the draft, you need a trailer with a tongue extension, the longer the better, or a tow vehicle whose owner doesn't mind immersing its hind quarters. To launch, back the trailer down the ramp until the boat floats off. To retrieve, back the trailer down the ramp and power the boat onto the trailer. I have added some keel guides to nudge the keel bulb onto the keel support in case I'm slightly off-center, but it's surprisingly easy to eyeball an on-center approach. One issue: because the boat goes onto the trailer when the trailer is not level, as you drag them up the ramp, the boat will rotate backward until boat & trailer are in the same plane. This means that the bow that was kissing the trailer's forward stop is now about 6" (depending on configuration) away. Live with it. > > 2. What do I need to watch out for when I am looking at Cal 20's? > Deck core rot from moisture penetration (forward deck, under cockpit seats & sole). This is harder to see if some over-eager previous owner has painted the undersides. The original boats had clear (glass and resin) undersides so you can see the status. The original spreader brackets were underengineered and prone to failure. Steve Seal sells heavier ones (from Dyer, I think). The original backstay had the same problem. When mine started breaking, I bought Steve's heavier replacement. > > > 3. Do I have to change my name to Chris if I purchase a Cal 20? > Not required, but it's a cool name and puts you in good company. Chris Campbell Cal 20 # 1220 > >

One other way to do it is as follows: 1. On the tongue extension have a set of wheels on a detachable crib welded up. That way the pressure is off the single wheeled trailer jack which is a bugger to control when backing up and also a failure point. This way the weight of the boat rests on the crib and two wheels not the marine jack which are flimsy at best. 2. The other way I have seen it done when the tongue extension is not long enough for the depth is to attach a long towing strap to the trailer. Place the trailer as close to the ramp as possible and block the wheels. Attach the towing strap to the the vehicle. Put on the parking break and block the wheels of the truck and make sure the strap is longer then required. Prepare the boat so she is free on the trailer and attach one or two painters so she can be controlled. When all is ready, remove the chocks from the trailer and let her fly down the ramp. Retrieve the boat with the painters and retrieve the trailer with the towing strap. Its important that the towing strap is longer then necessary. Water levels are low on Lake Ontario, so several keel boaters (trailer sailers) have resorted to this method. It works well if you are careful in your preparations. My CS22 were setup with method 1. So they were easily backed up unto the ramp and lowered into the water. /ch

just pray that there is no drop off just beyond end of the ramp or say bye bye to your trailor until the tow truck arrives... ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group One other way to do it is as follows: 1. On the tongue extension have a set of wheels on a detachable crib welded up. That way the pressure is off the single wheeled trailer jack which is a bugger to control when backing up and also a failure point. This way the weight of the boat rests on the crib and two wheels not the marine jack which are flimsy at best. 2. The other way I have seen it done when the tongue extension is not long enough for the depth is to attach a long towing strap to the trailer. Place the trailer as close to the ramp as possible and block the wheels. Attach the towing strap to the the vehicle. Put on the parking break and block the wheels of the truck and make sure the strap is longer then required. Prepare the boat so she is free on the trailer and attach one or two painters so she can be controlled. When all is ready, remove the chocks from the trailer and let her fly down the ramp. Retrieve the boat with the painters and retrieve the trailer with the towing strap. Its important that the towing strap is longer then necessary. Water levels are low on Lake Ontario, so several keel boaters (trailer sailers) have resorted to this method. It works well if you are careful in your preparations. My CS22 were setup with method 1. So they were easily backed up unto the ramp and lowered into the water. /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5361 (20100812) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5361 (20100812) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

A very valid concern. And launched your boat off a trailer is an acquired skill. You have to inspect the area well as stated but that's standard practice up here. Most public ramps up here where trailer sailors launch are government run. One of the few things they do well as its revenue generator. So the launch areas are well maintained and if you don't arrive early your looking at an hour wait or more to get access due to all the fishing boats. Particularly on Fridays through Monday over the summer period. In either case if the condition of the ramps are not sound, and you are not using a proper tow vehicle to launch your boat, the same would apply using an extension tongue. Its all a matter of having a good setup, a proper ramp or location and having the skills needed and rehearsed to place the boat in the water gently. Up here the first thing we do, and everyone does it independently, regardless of how long the line up, is to walk out on the dock next to the ramp and measure water depth and check to see the condition at the end of the ramp. As each trailer and boat have different requirements its standard practice. Those who don't usually end up asking for assistance which is freely given. Only once have I seen the marina tractor come out and haul out a trailer. Its was my friends Bayfield 25 that he was launching last year and got the wheels buried in the mud for some reason. He launches and retrieves the Bayfield yearly using the described methods but last summer for some reason the mud was different and down she went. Out came the tractor and all was good in 30 minutes or less. He;s been launching his B-25 this way for about 10 years now. Interestingly enough, Georgian Bay is so low this year that the power boaters are using local tractors that have been modified with high and thin rear wheels to pull their trailers to deeper water and launch the boat. This year its about half the length of a football field along that coastline, actually where I'm headed today for some R&R. (Pinnery Prov Park) You walk out to your boat once its launched and then climb on board. Sailboats need to be tucked into marina with long channels dredged to deeper water. Its a real mess up there resulting from the poor winter (the lower lakes started out three feet below datum in the spring), poor spring and rather dry summer. That and waters being diverted from the upper lakes into the Mississippi via the canals in Chicago are resulting in low water levels that made launching your boat this year a creative art if you are a trailer sailor. Even boats in marina slips that typically would launch off a trailer are considering the costs and practicality of hoisting the boat in the water. For marina members its cheap. 100 bucks. For non members typically 2-300 dollars. Mast raising is done yourself if a member or non members 50-100 bucks two ways. Not like in Rock Hall.....600 bucks one way. Nuts. But most trailer sailors rig the mast on self made gin pole mechanisms prior to launch. Marina operators are getting concerned as dredging is not allowed without a permit. So most just go ahead and do it themselves anyway, to get the boaters in and out otherwise Lake Ontario would have limited number of accessible marinas. Guess the fed and provincial agencies are just turning a blind eye as boating and fishing are the two largest revenue generators for the province aside from cigarettes and alcohol during the summer. Ramp fees are typically between 10-25 dollars per day. Then again we are permitted and taxed to death up here. And if your a power boater and have beer on board, with no permanent head and kitchen facilities, its a major fine with the potential of loss of drivers license. Ontario is going through a hard time economically, as we had 8 car plants in the province, that are now slowly dying, so revenue generation is a high priority. Keep boaters happy by giving them access to water and then pinging them for silly infractions seems to be the order of the day. The good news is that sailors are generally left alone. Best regards. /ch On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) < ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > just pray that there is no drop off just beyond end of the ramp or say bye > bye to your trailor until the tow truck arrives... >

Chris, great treatise, but, shouldn't we be changing the title in the subject line to something like "launching a sailboat at a ramp"? so this valuable work can be referenced in the future? --- On Thu, 8/12/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 10:10 AM A very valid concern. And launched your boat off a trailer is an acquired skill. You have to inspect the area well as stated but that's standard practice up here. Most public ramps up here where trailer sailors launch are government run. One of the few things they do well as its revenue generator. So the launch areas are well maintained and if you don't arrive early your looking at an hour wait or more to get access due to all the fishing boats. Particularly on Fridays through Monday over the summer period. In either case if the condition of the ramps are not sound, and you are not using a proper tow vehicle to launch your boat, the same would apply using an extension tongue. Its all a matter of having a good setup, a proper ramp or location and having the skills needed and rehearsed to place the boat in the water gently. Up here the first thing we do, and everyone does it independently, regardless of how long the line up, is to walk out on the dock next to the ramp and measure water depth and check to see the condition at the end of the ramp. As each trailer and boat have different requirements its standard practice. Those who don't usually end up asking for assistance which is freely given. Only once have I seen the marina tractor come out and haul out a trailer. Its was my friends Bayfield 25 that he was launching last year and got the wheels buried in the mud for some reason. He launches and retrieves the Bayfield yearly using the described methods but last summer for some reason the mud was different and down she went. Out came the tractor and all was good in 30 minutes or less. He;s been launching his B-25 this way for about 10 years now. Interestingly enough, Georgian Bay is so low this year that the power boaters are using local tractors that have been modified with high and thin rear wheels to pull their trailers to deeper water and launch the boat. This year its about half the length of a football field along that coastline, actually where I'm headed today for some R&R. (Pinnery Prov Park) You walk out to your boat once its launched and then climb on board. Sailboats need to be tucked into marina with long channels dredged to deeper water. Its a real mess up there resulting from the poor winter (the lower lakes started out three feet below datum in the spring), poor spring and rather dry summer. That and waters being diverted from the upper lakes into the Mississippi via the canals in Chicago are resulting in low water levels that made launching your boat this year a creative art if you are a trailer sailor. Even boats in marina slips that typically would launch off a trailer are considering the costs and practicality of hoisting the boat in the water. For marina members its cheap. 100 bucks. For non members typically 2-300 dollars. Mast raising is done yourself if a member or non members 50-100 bucks two ways. Not like in Rock Hall.....600 bucks one way. Nuts. But most trailer sailors rig the mast on self made gin pole mechanisms prior to launch. Marina operators are getting concerned as dredging is not allowed without a permit. So most just go ahead and do it themselves anyway, to get the boaters in and out otherwise Lake Ontario would have limited number of accessible marinas. Guess the fed and provincial agencies are just turning a blind eye as boating and fishing are the two largest revenue generators for the province aside from cigarettes and alcohol during the summer. Ramp fees are typically between 10-25 dollars per day. Then again we are permitted and taxed to death up here. And if your a power boater and have beer on board, with no permanent head and kitchen facilities, its a major fine with the potential of loss of drivers license. Ontario is going through a hard time economically, as we had 8 car plants in the province, that are now slowly dying, so revenue generation is a high priority. Keep boaters happy by giving them access to water and then pinging them for silly infractions seems to be the order of the day. The good news is that sailors are generally left alone. Best regards. /ch On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <masconsult@cox. net> wrote: just pray that there is no drop off just beyond end of the ramp or say bye bye to your trailor until the tow truck arrives...

sure I can re post it, if someone were kind enough to answer my extra set of winches for a cal 2-29 questions...posted earlier......:) Its the nature of threads to get off topic and it sure makes it hard to search using yahoo. So done. Really gotta go, Im running late. /ch

A very valid concern. And launching your boat off a trailer is an acquired skill. You have to inspect the area well as stated but that's standard practice up here. Most public ramps up here where trailer sailors launch are government run. One of the few things they do well as its revenue generator. So the launch areas are well maintained and if you don't arrive early your looking at an hour wait or more to get access due to all the fishing boats. Particularly on Fridays through Monday over the summer period. In either case if the condition of the ramps are not sound, and you are not using a proper tow vehicle to launch your boat, the same would apply using an extension tongue. Its all a matter of having a good setup, a proper ramp or location and having the skills needed and rehearsed to place the boat in the water gently. Up here the first thing we do, and everyone does it independently, regardless of how long the line up, is to walk out on the dock next to the ramp and measure water depth and check to see the condition at the end of the ramp. As each trailer and boat have different requirements its standard practice. Those who don't usually end up asking for assistance which is freely given. Only once have I seen the marina tractor come out and haul out a trailer. Its was my friends Bayfield 25 that he was launching last year and got the wheels buried in the mud for some reason. He launches and retrieves the Bayfield yearly using the described methods but last summer for some reason the mud was different and down she went. Out came the tractor and all was good in 30 minutes or less. He;s been launching his B-25 this way for about 10 years now. Interestingly enough, Georgian Bay is so low this year that the power boaters are using local tractors that have been modified with high and thin rear wheels to pull their trailers to deeper water and launch the boat. This year its about half the length of a football field along that coastline, actually where I'm headed today for some R&R. (Pinnery Prov Park) You walk out to your boat once its launched and then climb on board. Sailboats need to be tucked into marina with long channels dredged to deeper water. Its a real mess up there resulting from the poor winter (the lower lakes started out three feet below datum in the spring), poor spring and rather dry summer. That and waters being diverted from the upper lakes into the Mississippi via the canals in Chicago are resulting in low water levels that made launching your boat this year a creative art if you are a trailer sailor. Even boats in marina slips that typically would launch off a trailer are considering the costs and practicality of hoisting the boat in the water. For marina members its cheap. 100 bucks. For non members typically 2-300 dollars. Mast raising is done yourself if a member or non members 50-100 bucks two ways. Not like in Rock Hall.....600 bucks one way. Nuts. But most trailer sailors rig the mast on self made gin pole mechanisms prior to launch. Marina operators are getting concerned as dredging is not allowed without a permit. So most just go ahead and do it themselves anyway, to get the boaters in and out otherwise Lake Ontario would have limited number of accessible marinas. Guess the fed and provincial agencies are just turning a blind eye as boating and fishing are the two largest revenue generators for the province aside from cigarettes and alcohol during the summer. Ramp fees are typically between 10-25 dollars per day. Then again we are permitted and taxed to death up here. And if your a power boater and have beer on board, with no permanent head and kitchen facilities, its a major fine with the potential of loss of drivers license. Ontario is going through a hard time economically, as we had 8 car plants in the province, that are now slowly dying, so revenue generation is a high priority. Keep boaters happy by giving them access to water and then pinging them for silly infractions seems to be the order of the day. The good news is that sailors are generally left alone. Best regards. -- /ch

Thanks to all of you who responded. I have a lot of experience launching centerboard and dagger board sailboats on ramps. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there isn't a centerboard Cal is there? As soon as my 29 sells, I will be in the market for the 20. I am excited about this change. If anyone has a good 20 they would like to trade to a 2-29, I would entertain the idea. Again, thanks for the input. Rick (Chris) Lobb Cal 2-29 "Rebecca Shea" Bellingham, WA From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:11 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group A very valid concern. And launched your boat off a trailer is an acquired skill. You have to inspect the area well as stated but that's standard practice up here. Most public ramps up here where trailer sailors launch are government run. One of the few things they do well as its revenue generator. So the launch areas are well maintained and if you don't arrive early your looking at an hour wait or more to get access due to all the fishing boats. Particularly on Fridays through Monday over the summer period. In either case if the condition of the ramps are not sound, and you are not using a proper tow vehicle to launch your boat, the same would apply using an extension tongue. Its all a matter of having a good setup, a proper ramp or location and having the skills needed and rehearsed to place the boat in the water gently. Up here the first thing we do, and everyone does it independently, regardless of how long the line up, is to walk out on the dock next to the ramp and measure water depth and check to see the condition at the end of the ramp. As each trailer and boat have different requirements its standard practice. Those who don't usually end up asking for assistance which is freely given. Only once have I seen the marina tractor come out and haul out a trailer. Its was my friends Bayfield 25 that he was launching last year and got the wheels buried in the mud for some reason. He launches and retrieves the Bayfield yearly using the described methods but last summer for some reason the mud was different and down she went. Out came the tractor and all was good in 30 minutes or less. He;s been launching his B-25 this way for about 10 years now. Interestingly enough, Georgian Bay is so low this year that the power boaters are using local tractors that have been modified with high and thin rear wheels to pull their trailers to deeper water and launch the boat. This year its about half the length of a football field along that coastline, actually where I'm headed today for some R&R. (Pinnery Prov Park) You walk out to your boat once its launched and then climb on board. Sailboats need to be tucked into marina with long channels dredged to deeper water. Its a real mess up there resulting from the poor winter (the lower lakes started out three feet below datum in the spring), poor spring and rather dry summer. That and waters being diverted from the upper lakes into the Mississippi via the canals in Chicago are resulting in low water levels that made launching your boat this year a creative art if you are a trailer sailor. Even boats in marina slips that typically would launch off a trailer are considering the costs and practicality of hoisting the boat in the water. For marina members its cheap. 100 bucks. For non members typically 2-300 dollars. Mast raising is done yourself if a member or non members 50-100 bucks two ways. Not like in Rock Hall.....600 bucks one way. Nuts. But most trailer sailors rig the mast on self made gin pole mechanisms prior to launch. Marina operators are getting concerned as dredging is not allowed without a permit. So most just go ahead and do it themselves anyway, to get the boaters in and out otherwise Lake Ontario would have limited number of accessible marinas. Guess the fed and provincial agencies are just turning a blind eye as boating and fishing are the two largest revenue generators for the province aside from cigarettes and alcohol during the summer. Ramp fees are typically between 10-25 dollars per day. Then again we are permitted and taxed to death up here. And if your a power boater and have beer on board, with no permanent head and kitchen facilities, its a major fine with the potential of loss of drivers license. Ontario is going through a hard time economically, as we had 8 car plants in the province, that are now slowly dying, so revenue generation is a high priority. Keep boaters happy by giving them access to water and then pinging them for silly infractions seems to be the order of the day. The good news is that sailors are generally left alone. Best regards. /ch On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: just pray that there is no drop off just beyond end of the ramp or say bye bye to your trailor until the tow truck arrives...

This is a good idea but what if instead of just letting the trailer free wheel down the ramp you would pull the truck forward while the trailer is tire blocked until the tow strap is taught. Then unblock the trailer and gently back down the trailer and boat into the water? Just my two cents... Scott --- On Thu, 8/12/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 8:58 AM One other way to do it is as follows: 1. On the tongue extension have a set of wheels on a detachable crib welded up. That way the pressure is off the single wheeled trailer jack which is a bugger to control when backing up and also a failure point. This way the weight of the boat rests on the crib and two wheels not the marine jack which are flimsy at best. 2. The other way I have seen it done when the tongue extension is not long enough for the depth is to attach a long towing strap to the trailer. Place the trailer as close to the ramp as possible and block the wheels. Attach the towing strap to the the vehicle. Put on the parking break and block the wheels of the truck and make sure the strap is longer then required. Prepare the boat so she is free on the trailer and attach one or two painters so she can be controlled. When all is ready, remove the chocks from the trailer and let her fly down the ramp. Retrieve the boat with the painters and retrieve the trailer with the towing strap. Its important that the towing strap is longer then necessary. Water levels are low on Lake Ontario, so several keel boaters (trailer sailers) have resorted to this method. It works well if you are careful in your preparations. My CS22 were setup with method 1. So they were easily backed up unto the ramp and lowered into the water. /ch

chris123 wrote: > > > The good news is that sailors are generally left alone. > Last weekend I fired up the 11 foot aluminum pram with its venerable 3 h.p. Evinrude and took my mother down the shoreline of Saginaw Bay to view an enormous dwelling being built by a local physician. It looks like a hotel from the water. We putted down the shoreline about a mile and came to a vast flotilla of large powerboats anchored offshore in shallow water. It is what they do--roar out of the river, turn left about a mile, anchor, drink beer in the sun. There must have been 40 of them. The sheriff's patrol boat came by about the time we passed. I thought nothing of it but my mother remembered that the pram had not been registered for quite a few years. She whispered that concern to me. I wasn't too worried since we looked like the po' folks in the 1960 era pram, and we were surrounded by the dual V-8 go fast boats with lots of colorful vinyl decals. The sheriff left us alone. They always leave my sailboat alone, too--it's my other boat, it's in its 50th season, and we intimidate them with age & experience. Chris Campbell

Becarfull, I have seen boats on trailers pull trucks with breaks on into the water. ----- Original Message ----- From: scott cyphers To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group This is a good idea but what if instead of just letting the trailer free wheel down the ramp you would pull the truck forward while the trailer is tire blocked until the tow strap is taught. Then unblock the trailer and gently back down the trailer and boat into the water? Just my two cents... Scott --- On Thu, 8/12/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 8:58 AM One other way to do it is as follows: 1. On the tongue extension have a set of wheels on a detachable crib welded up. That way the pressure is off the single wheeled trailer jack which is a bugger to control when backing up and also a failure point. This way the weight of the boat rests on the crib and two wheels not the marine jack which are flimsy at best. 2. The other way I have seen it done when the tongue extension is not long enough for the depth is to attach a long towing strap to the trailer. Place the trailer as close to the ramp as possible and block the wheels. Attach the towing strap to the the vehicle. Put on the parking break and block the wheels of the truck and make sure the strap is longer then required. Prepare the boat so she is free on the trailer and attach one or two painters so she can be controlled. When all is ready, remove the chocks from the trailer and let her fly down the ramp. Retrieve the boat with the painters and retrieve the trailer with the towing strap. Its important that the towing strap is longer then necessary. Water levels are low on Lake Ontario, so several keel boaters (trailer sailers) have resorted to this method. It works well if you are careful in your preparations. My CS22 were setup with method 1. So they were easily backed up unto the ramp and lowered into the water. /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5361 (20100812) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5361 (20100812) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

chris123 wrote: > > > A very valid concern. And launching your boat off a trailer is an > acquired skill. > I want to add that it does require some judgment, but it's not as intimidating as it sounds. Don't be deterred by the seeming complexity--it's really quite easy if you have a good, well-maintained ramp. Chris Campbell > >

Did it. The ramp was mossy. Truck tires spun then it was nothing you could do. What made it worse, boat was on trailer. It held the bed of truck up. Once I was able to release the winch, truck sunk. Only thing marking location of truck was the CB antenna sticking out of water. It was on the Mississippi River in Mo. Around midnight.&nbsp; -- Sent from my Palm Pixi On Aug 12, 2010 13:59, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) &lt;ma… [at] cox.net&gt; wrote: &nbsp;  Becarfull, I have seen boats on trailers pull trucks with breaks on into the water. ----- Original Message ----- From: scott cyphers To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group &nbsp; This is a good idea but what if instead of just letting the trailer free wheel down the ramp you would pull the truck forward while the trailer is tire blocked until the tow strap is taught. Then unblock the trailer and gently back down the trailer and boat into the water? Just my two cents... Scott --- On Thu, 8/12/10, chris123 &lt;ch… [at] gmail.com&gt; wrote: From: chris123 &lt;ch… [at] gmail.com&gt; Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 8:58 AM &nbsp; One other way to do it is as follows: 1. On the tongue extension have a set of wheels on a detachable crib welded up. That way the pressure is off the single wheeled trailer jack which is a bugger to control when backing up and also a failure point. This way the weight of the boat rests on the crib and two wheels not the marine jack which are flimsy at best. 2. The other way I have seen it done when the tongue extension is not long enough for the depth is to attach a long towing strap to the trailer. Place the trailer as close to the ramp as possible and block the wheels. Attach the towing strap to the the vehicle. Put on the parking break and block the wheels of the truck and make sure the strap is longer then required. Prepare the boat so she is free on the trailer and attach one or two painters so she can be controlled. When all is ready, remove the chocks from the trailer and let her fly down the ramp. Retrieve the boat with the painters and retrieve the trailer with the towing strap. Its important that the towing strap is longer then necessary. Water levels are low on Lake Ontario, so several keel boaters (trailer sailers) have resorted to this method. It works well if you are careful in your preparations. My CS22 were setup with method 1. So they were easily backed up unto the ramp and lowered into the water. /ch Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5361 (20100812) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5361 (20100812) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Chris, heh heh, but...I already did it for you, and now they can find it under both headings, already yet. Gosh, I had enough trouble launching my relatively light weight plywood 13.5' Glen-L Catamaran (yeah, I tacked 1.5' onto the stern, moved the cross beam back, and converted it to a sloop rig, they said it was the best handling Glen-L around. I'd burn up the clutch trying to pull the whole thing out of the water with my ancient 1962Econoline E-100 with it's dinky 75 HP 144 cu. inch (back when that was dinky) six. Would you believe, I still own that thing? The van, not the cat. That's why I had to buy another sailboat. I thought I'd save time by not looking for used sailboats. It didn't work, now I look the ones on Craig's list four times a day...like the Cal34 in San Diego for $4000. How bad a shape could it be in? Yeah, after buying my Cal 24 for $450 I should know the answer to that question by the school of hard knocks. Bestest, Jerry --- On Thu, 8/12/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Launching a sailboat at a ramp was Re:Questions for the group To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 10:23 AM sure I can re post it, if someone were kind enough to answer my extra set of winches for a cal 2-29 questions... posted earlier..... .:) Its the nature of threads to get off topic and it sure makes it hard to search using yahoo. So done. Really gotta go, Im running late. /ch

You might consider adding lifting plates and a lifting sling a 2 ton or 1.5 ton hoist will be quite adequate. My Best, Mike F From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 8:58:15 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group One other way to do it is as follows: 1. On the tongue extension have a set of wheels on a detachable crib welded up. That way the pressure is off the single wheeled trailer jack which is a bugger to control when backing up and also a failure point. This way the weight of the boat rests on the crib and two wheels not the marine jack which are flimsy at best. 2. The other way I have seen it done when the tongue extension is not long enough for the depth is to attach a long towing strap to the trailer. Place the trailer as close to the ramp as possible and block the wheels. Attach the towing strap to the the vehicle. Put on the parking break and block the wheels of the truck and make sure the strap is longer then required. Prepare the boat so she is free on the trailer and attach one or two painters so she can be controlled. When all is ready, remove the chocks from the trailer and let her fly down the ramp. Retrieve the boat with the painters and retrieve the trailer with the towing strap. Its important that the towing strap is longer then necessary. Water levels are low on Lake Ontario, so several keel boaters (trailer sailers) have resorted to this method. It works well if you are careful in your preparations. My CS22 were setup with method 1. So they were easily backed up unto the ramp and lowered into the water. /ch

When I was a scout leader (BSA) I told my scouts to never mess with a white haired (old) man. He has nothing to loose. I tell my wife who is 7 years younger then I the same thing. She laughes at me. Keep it up, My Best Mike F From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 11:58:14 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group chris123 wrote: >The good news is that sailors are generally left alone. > >Last weekend I fired up the 11 foot aluminum pram with its venerable 3 h.p. >Evinrude and took my mother down the shoreline of Saginaw Bay to view an >enormous dwelling being built by a local physician. It looks like a hotel from >the water. We putted down the shoreline about a mile and came to a vast >flotilla of large powerboats anchored offshore in shallow water. It is what >they do--roar out of the river, turn left about a mile, anchor, drink beer in >the sun. There must have been 40 of them. The sheriff's patrol boat came by >about the time we passed. I thought nothing of it but my mother remembered >that the pram had not been registered for quite a few years. She whispered that >concern to me. I wasn't too worried since we looked like the po' folks in the >1960 era pram, and we were surrounded by the dual V-8 go fast boats with lots of >colorful vinyl decals. The sheriff left us alone. They always leave my >sailboat alone, too--it's my other boat, it's in its 50th season, and we >intimidate them with age & experience. Chris Campbell

The best one I ever saw was a father and son team in Sarnia ON, basically across the river from Detroit. The poor lads got dismasted on an old ODay day sailor or similar. They putted into the harbor bailing furiously to keep the thing afloat. I was sitting there with my brand new old CS22 loaded on my trailer having a cigarette and watching the entertainment. The son jumped out and ran over to the truck and backed in the trailer onto the ramp so dad could slide the boat in over it. They were in such a hurry to get out that they did not consider all the water in the boat. As soon as the son, moved the truck forward, all the water of course slid to the back of the boat and the thing jackknifed into the air as it was on an extension tongue. So here they sat truck on the hard, connected to the extension which is now at a 45 degree angle and the boat partially falling off the trailer. I walked over and asked if they needed help. The response was too funny. "Nah, we been through this one before, see that dumpster over there, we just backup the boat into it and it slides forward and everything will be OK" And so they did....blew me away. One more smoke, laughed a bit and then head home on a 12 hr drive, chuckling all the way home. As said unloading and loading your boat is a practiced art. Some folks just take it to a different level...:) Best regards /ch

Best thing I've heard in weeks! Kevin > So here they sat truck on the hard, connected to the extension which > is now at a 45 degree angle and the boat partially falling off the > trailer. I walked over and asked if they needed help. The response was > too funny. > > "Nah, we been through this one before, see that dumpster over there, > we just backup the boat into it and it slides forward and everything > will be OK" > > And so they did....blew me away. One more smoke, laughed a bit and > then head home on a 12 hr drive, chuckling all the way home. > > As said unloading and loading your boat is a practiced art. Some folks > just take it to a different level...:) > > Best regards > > /ch > > >

chris123 wrote: > > > > > As said unloading and loading your boat is a practiced art. Some folks > just take it to a different level...:) > Good tale. But I want to emphasize that it's a lot easier to do right than I used to imagine, so we don't frighten folks away. The first two years I had the Cal 20, I stored her at a yard that had a travel hoist. But I wanted to have her closer to home, and the only travel hoist guy wanted more than I paid for the boat (!!) to haul her. Another guy said "I'll haul with your trailer." Sounded impossible to me--how would I get the keel in its little slot, etc. I lost a lot of sleep beforehand. But it's easy. Here's the drill. Drive truck and trailer to ramp. Extend trailer tongue extension. Back trailer down ramp. Run boat onto trailer. Pull trailer and boat up ramp. Telescope the tongue extension. Strap boat down. Drive away. For me, the hardest part is finding somebody to help me drop the mast a day or two earlier. Chris Campbell > >

As I drove away from that boat, I laughed and said, that's never going to happen to me. Nope never gonna be that dumb...:) Please do your self a favor and never say that. The same CS22 I bought in Sarnia I dumped in a very small and remote marina in Wellington ON. 10 boats in total, gorgeous little place. Government dock which means everyone checks out at 16:30 with a fully indexed pension ....:) I had a lot of problems getting the boat into the water so I thought I would be smart and bring along a friend when I hauled her in the fall. I prepared everything, extra rope, extra 2" wide ratchet straps, 2 2x4's just in case and I kept looking at that come-a-long in the garage and decided na that overkill. Getting the boat to sit properly on the trailer was very difficult as the water in Nov was very low and very cold. The trailer was connected to the extension tongue which was connected to the tow vehicle. On the third attempt we got the boat to sit almost true on the bunks. We tied her off only on the trailer winch and the extension was supported only by the marine jack. You can guess where Im going with this As I moved the tow vehicle forward the boat rolled in the bunks and did not sit properly. So I thought, I will just back her up and do it one more time. Wrong. The ramp was crap and those marine jacks have solid plastic wheels. I got her back about three feet when all of a sudden the jack caught a pothole snapped in half and down she went. Instead of leaving it alone, no I had to fix the problem (I could have jacked up the trailer tongue with a jack I brought along and attached the tow vehicle and drove the boat home off center) and tried to back her out of the pot hole. Crap move. The minute I did, the trailer winch let loose and the boat slid back as i was on the ramp. Well you can guess the rest. The boat slid back off the trailer, the trailer jackknifed into the air and the tongue held and remained attached to the tow vehicle and actually raised the rear wheels for second till everything stabilized. The problem was the the stern of the boat was now hard aground in about a foot of water an only partially on the trailer. Needless to say a lot of words were said between my friend and I, the kind you laugh about the next day over a dozen beers and I usually don't drink.....that much.:) So here we were, around 18:00 hrs, no one around which was good in one way as boy did we feel stupid looking at a boat, stern on the hard, partially on a trailer and pointed at 45 degree's in the air. There was a local watering hole with a porch and guess who was the entrainment for the night. The trick was to get the boat off the ground just enough so we could move the entire rig back into the water. This required the trailer, the boat and extension to be stabilized in the new configuration they had taken. With lots of experimentation we finally got it and were able to move the boat back into the water and re float her. So just to sum it up, around midnight we finally got it all sorted, using the tools at hand which was the real challenge. Had I brought the come-a-long we could have sorted this in about an hr or less. As we pulled out, the locals cheered and one lad sang out, "next time get a power boat".....we just looked at each other, growled a bit and started the 6 hr ride home finally starting to laugh. Once home, we emptied the beer fridge.

All good points. Yarns are just that, funny experiences you can laugh at afterword. But the point it well taken. Its a simple task when done right and takes a bit of practice. Like with all things sailing the only thing that matters is not to rush it. Thanks for the come back on this one. I may have a solution for you on raising the mast yourself with a rig we use back home. But have to check a few things first to see if it can be mod'ed to the 20. Best regards /ch

It is hard to imagine until you have seen it happen with your own eyes. ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall Alcorn To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group Did it. The ramp was mossy. Truck tires spun then it was nothing you could do. What made it worse, boat was on trailer. It held the bed of truck up. Once I was able to release the winch, truck sunk. Only thing marking location of truck was the CB antenna sticking out of water. It was on the Mississippi River in Mo. Around midnight. -- Sent from my Palm Pixi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Aug 12, 2010 13:59, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote:  Becarfull, I have seen boats on trailers pull trucks with breaks on into the water. ----- Original Message ----- From: scott cyphers To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group This is a good idea but what if instead of just letting the trailer free wheel down the ramp you would pull the truck forward while the trailer is tire blocked until the tow strap is taught. Then unblock the trailer and gently back down the trailer and boat into the water? Just my two cents... Scott --- On Thu, 8/12/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Questions for the group To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 8:58 AM One other way to do it is as follows: 1. On the tongue extension have a set of wheels on a detachable crib welded up. That way the pressure is off the single wheeled trailer jack which is a bugger to control when backing up and also a failure point. This way the weight of the boat rests on the crib and two wheels not the marine jack which are flimsy at best. 2. The other way I have seen it done when the tongue extension is not long enough for the depth is to attach a long towing strap to the trailer. Place the trailer as close to the ramp as possible and block the wheels. Attach the towing strap to the the vehicle. Put on the parking break and block the wheels of the truck and make sure the strap is longer then required. Prepare the boat so she is free on the trailer and attach one or two painters so she can be controlled. When all is ready, remove the chocks from the trailer and let her fly down the ramp. Retrieve the boat with the painters and retrieve the trailer with the towing strap. Its important that the towing strap is longer then necessary. Water levels are low on Lake Ontario, so several keel boaters (trailer sailers) have resorted to this method. It works well if you are careful in your preparations. My CS22 were setup with method 1. So they were easily backed up unto the ramp and lowered into the water. /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5361 (20100812) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5361 (20100812) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5364 (20100813) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5365 (20100813) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Chris, I have a LONG story about retreiving an O'Day 22 at a ramp in Chicago. Some day when I have had too much to drink. David Dobbs Cal29 411 --- On Thu, 8/12/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Launching a sailboat at a ramp was Re:Questions for the group To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 9:38 PM The best one I ever saw was a father and son team in Sarnia ON, basically across the river from Detroit. The poor lads got dismasted on an old ODay day sailor or similar. They putted into the harbor bailing furiously to keep the thing afloat. I was sitting there with my brand new old CS22 loaded on my trailer having a cigarette and watching the entertainment. The son jumped out and ran over to the truck and backed in the trailer onto the ramp so dad could slide the boat in over it. They were in such a hurry to get out that they did not consider all the water in the boat. As soon as the son, moved the truck forward, all the water of course slid to the back of the boat and the thing jackknifed into the air as it was on an extension tongue. So here they sat truck on the hard, connected to the extension which is now at a 45 degree angle and the boat partially falling off the trailer. I walked over and asked if they needed help. The response was too funny. "Nah, we been through this one before, see that dumpster over there, we just backup the boat into it and it slides forward and everything will be OK" And so they did....blew me away. One more smoke, laughed a bit and then head home on a 12 hr drive, chuckling all the way home. As said unloading and loading your boat is a practiced art. Some folks just take it to a different level...:) Best regards /ch

Where on Lake Ontario do you call home David? /ch

Chris, I am a Lake Michigan sailor, home ported at Jackson Park Outer Harbor in Chicago. I keep my 29 there in a slip. Belong to Jackson Park YC. Winter storage is at Rentner Marine on the Little Calumet River in Chicago, downstream from the O'Brien Lock and Dam. My original boat was an O'Day 22 that I stored on a trailer during the winter. Launching and retrevial were always an adventure. Nowdays I let the yard handle that. My yard is now 3rd generation operators, it's what they do. I had to earn their respect, but now I am considered okay, even though I am a ragbagger. David Dobbs, Cal29 411 --- On Fri, 8/13/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Launching a sailboat at a ramp(Chris) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 9:17 PM Where on Lake Ontario do you call home David? /ch

david dobbs wrote: > > > Chris, > I am a Lake Michigan sailor, home ported at Jackson Park Outer Harbor > in Chicago. I keep my 29 there in a slip. Belong to Jackson Park > YC. Winter storage is at Rentner Marine on the Little Calumet River > in Chicago, downstream from the O'Brien Lock and Dam. My original > boat was an O'Day 22 that I stored on a trailer during the winter. > Launching and retrevial were always an adventure. Nowdays I let the > yard handle that. My yard is now 3rd generation operators, it's what > they do. I had to earn their respect, but now I am considered okay, > even though I am a ragbagger. > My Cal 20 lives on a trailer, from which she is launched & retrieved on a ramp by a local boat guy. I have earned his respect by being (a) polite, (b) on time, and (c) prepared. My other boat lives in a marina and is hauled via travel lift and stored on her cradle in one of their boat barns. I focus on (a) - (c) there also, but since that boat is older than most of the yard crew and a whole lot prettier than your standard Clorox bottle, they all treat her with special respect. If your boat is well kept and in good condition, it sends a message about how you expect others to treat her. Chris Campbell > >