wetsnails

Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. HH

Helen, When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a lot roomier inside. Jerry --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. HH

A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement in a 35-40 ft boat two cents Scott --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM Helen, When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a lot roomier inside. Jerry --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. HH

> the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend >all >your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the >LLoyd's >insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) >spend most of >their lives at the dock. HH I guess another way to ask the same question is, do you want to get there in one piece and relaxed, or do you want to get there in a hurry and all stressed out. Guess it all depends on what you get your jollies from, adrenaline or a good re-laxative..:) Just kidding of course 'Im not that old to not appreciate a good ride. Actually in the order of things more westerlies were produced then any of the other Colin Archer knock offs . I forget the numbers but Westerly production was high and at a sustained rate in comparison to Alajuela which had the least produced but sold for a premium and Ingrids were somewhere in the middle with I think around 380 produced. (working from memory on the numbers) If you are doing any serious off shore work that is seasonally independent then the choice of boats becomes rather obvious and to a degree limited. Lots of good literature on this subject, including 25 small boats that have cruised the world going in completely different direction. IP are not on any list that I have read..:) Best regards /ch

Well I guess some people think wetsnails never go out And I repute run the numbers on righting ability SA and others design facts cals are fun but ocean cruisers at heart Should I chime all the the Lapworth made full keel boats in the early sixties SW --- On Mon, 8/16/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 7:02 PM > the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend >all >your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the >LLoyd's >insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) >spend most of >their lives at the dock. HH I guess another way to ask the same question is, do you want to get there in one piece and relaxed, or do you want to get there in a hurry and all stressed out. Guess it all depends on what you get your jollies from, adrenaline or a good re-laxative..:) Just kidding of course 'Im not that old to not appreciate a good ride. Actually in the order of things more westerlies were produced then any of the other Colin Archer knock offs . I forget the numbers but Westerly production was high and at a sustained rate in comparison to Alajuela which had the least produced but sold for a premium and Ingrids were somewhere in the middle with I think around 380 produced. (working from memory on the numbers) If you are doing any serious off shore work that is seasonally independent then the choice of boats becomes rather obvious and to a degree limited. Lots of good literature on this subject, including 25 small boats that have cruised the world going in completely different direction. IP are not on any list that I have read..:) Best regards /ch

Hi Scott: Are we talking about the same boat. In these parts, and along the east & west coasts of Canada, these are much sought after boats, for those with deep pockets and intend in spending a few years off shore. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?sponsored=true&units=Feet&checked_boats=2162866&slim=broker&&hosturl=bayisland&ywo=bayisland Or we taking about a different vessel? Best regards /ch

For 17 years I sailed a S&S designed 7 ton 35' Hinckley Pilot. so called full keel with an attached rudder and a cut away fore foot. She was replaced by a Bill Lee designed Santa Cruz 27 hull 103. Fast is fun and lighter is better. I once had Jupiter's knot meter pegged at 10k. I was terrified. In the 2010 Great Vallejo race Rambler Cal 20 #1114 hit 10.2k. This is with an 18' w/l. I was not terrified--- I wanted her to go faster!!! Your choice may be a displacment boat . I believe a boat that will wave ride or even surf delivers so much more. As an example, Hal & Marg Roth chose a Santa Cruz 50 after 25,000 miles in a 7 ton 35' full keel Spenser design. When I asked him why, he had a good answer. My Best, Mike From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement in a 35-40 ft boat two cents Scott --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM > > > >Helen, >When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you >get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun >then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that >free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or >hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. >Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a >lot roomier inside. >Jerry > >--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > >>From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM >> >> >> >>Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail >>(still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 >>years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I >>think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't >>even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz >>boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential >>sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do >>you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my >>house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and >>Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. >>HH >>

The From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement in a 35-40 ft boat two cents Scott --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM > > > >Helen, >When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you >get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun >then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that >free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or >hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. >Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a >lot roomier inside. >Jerry > >--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > >>From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM >> >> >> >>Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail >>(still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 >>years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I >>think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't >>even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz >>boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential >>sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do >>you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my >>house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and >>Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. >>HH >>

The what? --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM The From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement in a 35-40 ft boat two cents Scott --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM Helen, When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a lot roomier inside. Jerry --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. HH

Sorry--- last transmission lost. I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the Westsail allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I believe that his "Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did not win. I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear before the awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close inspection, his deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. My Best, Mike Farrell From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 8:45:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails The what? --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM > > > >The > > > > From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > >A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full >keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. > >Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around > >I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own >thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride >no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 > >I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement >in a 35-40 ft boat > >two cents >Scott > >--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM >> >> >> >>Helen, >>When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you >>get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun >>then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that >>free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or >>hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. >>Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a >>lot roomier inside. >>Jerry >> >>--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> >>>From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM >>> >>> >>> >>>Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail >>>(still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 >>>years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I >>>think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't >>>even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz >>>boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential >>>sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do >>>you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my >>>house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and >>>Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. >>>HH >>> > > >

ok, but I've never reefed my cal 29.....but then I'm not into 40 knot blows. Helen From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement in a 35-40 ft boat two cents Scott --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM > > > >Helen, >When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you >get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun >then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that >free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or >hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. >Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a >lot roomier inside. >Jerry > >--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > >>From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM >> >> >> >>Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail >>(still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 >>years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I >>think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't >>even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz >>boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential >>sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do >>you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my >>house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and >>Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. >>HH >>

sailed twice to Santa Cruz Island, anchored in quite a few places, explored , hiked to the top, anchored at Anacapa and climbed the ladder and checked out the lighthouse and the odd plant that covers it called Mugwort. Fished around, caught, cooked and ate the catch. A week at a time, in a Catalina 30 chartered out of SB. One trip over was fairly quiet, not much wind after the fog burned off, but whales, dolphins and flying fish. A long ride. The next trip had us in the troughs halfway across with towering waves breaking over us. In the channel! I slept half a day away on the hook. On the way back, dodging a huge ship in the shipping lane made me happy to have an agile boat.None of these events would have been any better in a Westsail.(this was in the 70's) Also I forgot about Alajuela, a friend and I custom ordered the hull in Costa Mesa, watched them mold, chopper, etc. a very beefy hull. Then we had it delivered to Ron and John Moore's yard in Santa Cruz so we could finish if off, much like the westsail program. I eventually sold my half as I lost interest. It was finished and actually sailed to Alaska. They are all so different and finished to the talents of the owners, same with Westsail but there are more of those.I do like double enders, there is a charm to them and they are a more comfortable ride. Also was part owner of an old but venerable double-ended wooden salmon troll vessel. Top speed 4 knots. Stinky diesel, no thanks. I like sailing monohulls, racing and the performance challenge and the cals seem to handle just about everything and you can push them for more. Having acquired the cal 36 this year and now getting her out on the ocean I'm amazed at how easy it is to sail, can't get enough but keep having to go home and fix things like the well and keeping the weeds down. Then we race the 29 on wednesdays and a friend's catalina 30 on tuesdays. Life is too short for a westsail when you like to race. HH From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:42:29 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails Helen, When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a lot roomier inside. Jerry --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: >From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM > > > >Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail >(still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 >years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I >think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't >even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz >boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential >sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do >you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my >house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and >Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. >HH >

Helen, I got to drive a Cal 29 some years back, and I remember being very impressed with its sweet handling characteristics, smooth ride and its beautifully balanced helm. The owner was boasting about what a great deal he got ($9000) after "laying in wait" for one for a number of years. It was roomy enough down below that he was slow dancing with a gal he'd invited aboard (it was a Marina Single Sailors outing, after all), and later they disappeared into the V berth for over half an hour. I didn't mind, we were enjoying sailing his boat on a beautiful day in the Santa Monica Bay. I must admit, the Westsail 32 pictured looks like a real beauty, especially below, and with that tall a mast carrying that much sail it couldn't be a total slouch. I wonder what its PHRF rating is? Jerry --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 12:24 AM sailed twice to Santa Cruz Island, anchored in quite a few places, explored , hiked to the top, anchored at Anacapa and climbed the ladder and checked out the lighthouse and the odd plant that covers it called Mugwort. Fished around, caught, cooked and ate the catch. A week at a time, in a Catalina 30 chartered out of SB. One trip over was fairly quiet, not much wind after the fog burned off, but whales, dolphins and flying fish. A long ride. The next trip had us in the troughs halfway across with towering waves breaking over us. In the channel! I slept half a day away on the hook. On the way back, dodging a huge ship in the shipping lane made me happy to have an agile boat.None of these events would have been any better in a Westsail.(this was in the 70's) Also I forgot about Alajuela, a friend and I custom ordered the hull in Costa Mesa, watched them mold, chopper, etc. a very beefy hull. Then we had it delivered to Ron and John Moore's yard in Santa Cruz so we could finish if off, much like the westsail program. I eventually sold my half as I lost interest. It was finished and actually sailed to Alaska. They are all so different and finished to the talents of the owners, same with Westsail but there are more of those.I do like double enders, there is a charm to them and they are a more comfortable ride. Also was part owner of an old but venerable double-ended wooden salmon troll vessel. Top speed 4 knots. Stinky diesel, no thanks. I like sailing monohulls, racing and the performance challenge and the cals seem to handle just about everything and you can push them for more. Having acquired the cal 36 this year and now getting her out on the ocean I'm amazed at how easy it is to sail, can't get enough but keep having to go home and fix things like the well and keeping the weeds down. Then we race the 29 on wednesdays and a friend's catalina 30 on tuesdays. Life is too short for a westsail when you like to race. HH From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:42:29 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails Helen, When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a lot roomier inside. Jerry --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. HH

Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the current owner of a Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about the two boats. In my opinion, other than the fact that they both have big sticks with wires holding them up, they aren't much alike. After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the Westsail last summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and they are way over built. Personally I like that sense of security when the weather gets really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and my wife and I are going cruising. If we were only going to go down the coast to Mexico and putter around there, the Cal would have been a better choice. She points higher and is generally much simpler to sail. However, she was not really built to spend a couple years wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, spares, etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next to bullet proof and her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is not as fast as my Cal although on a long run with an equal amount of equipment the comparison would be interesting to see. Never the less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a racer though so if it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it was this one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last two years. Beta engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, running rigging, VHF, sail covers and hard dodger. She also has a stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for one want to see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the first I have EVER heard of that so please do share with the group. Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play with my boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make sell something one of these days. Tom Cal 2-34 Windsong W32 Anela --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM Sorry--- last transmission lost. I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the Westsail allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I believe that his "Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did not win. I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear before the awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close inspection, his deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. My Best, Mike Farrell From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 8:45:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails The what? --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM The From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement in a 35-40 ft boat two cents Scott --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM Helen, When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a lot roomier inside. Jerry --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. HH

I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of. He was not a member of a yacht club when he entered. In 1988 this was a requirement that he conveniently overlooked. His crew knew it and told me so in Oahu after the race. There were others present who were party to the conversation. His position reports stopped early into the race when he had radio trouble, when his radio trouble was repaired his daily runs were unlikely. As the last boat to finish he became the overall winner. The Pacific Cup Race Committee was not sophisticated enough or experienced enough to ask the right questions. They did not do the job they should have done. Saraband's owner is not a man of honor. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:07:18 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the current owner of a Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about the two boats. In my opinion, other than the fact that they both have big sticks with wires holding them up, they aren't much alike. After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the Westsail last summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and they are way over built. Personally I like that sense of security when the weather gets really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and my wife and I are going cruising. If we were only going to go down the coast to Mexico and putter around there, the Cal would have been a better choice. She points higher and is generally much simpler to sail. However, she was not really built to spend a couple years wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, spares, etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next to bullet proof and her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is not as fast as my Cal although on a long run with an equal amount of equipment the comparison would be interesting to see. Never the less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a racer though so if it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it was this one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last two years. Beta engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, running rigging, VHF, sail covers and hard dodger. She also has a stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for one want to see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the first I have EVER heard of that so please do share with the group. Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play with my boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make sell something one of these days. Tom Cal 2-34 Windsong W32 Anela --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net >Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM > > > > > >Sorry--- last transmission lost. > I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the Westsail >allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I believe that his >"Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did not win. > I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear before the >awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close inspection, his >deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > > > > From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 8:45:02 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > >The what? > >--- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM >> >> >> >>The >> >> >> >> From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >> >> >> >> >>A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full >>keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. >> >>Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around >> >>I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own >>thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride >>no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 >> >>I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement >>in a 35-40 ft boat >> >>two cents >>Scott >> >>--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>>From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM >>> >>> >>> >>>Helen, >>>When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you >>>get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun >>>then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that >>>free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or >>>hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. >>>Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a >>>lot roomier inside. >>>Jerry >>> >>>--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >>>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail >>>>(still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 >>>>years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I >>>>think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't >>>>even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz >>>>boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential >>>>sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do >>>>you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my >>>>house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and >>>>Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. >>>>HH >>>> >> >> >> > > > > >

No offence Mike, but you’re not making sense. You're saying Sarband's skipper was not a member of a yacht club, yet still registered for the race and then you heard from someone else that he wasn't a member of any club? It seems like that would have been really easy for the race committee to check. Like one phone call maybe. You say they weren’t sophisticated enough to ask the right questions? You mean like “What club are you a member of?” 1988 was the 5th running of the race. By the completion of that race, over 100 boats in all had finished it if I’m not mistaken. It sounds to me like they were pretty experienced and sophisticated to pull all of that off. I’m not sure what Saraband’s radio going out has to do with anything. Why do his position reports seem unlikely to you? He and his crew either sailed or they didn’t. I’m not sure what you’re implying? Are you saying he motored across the pacific high to save time? Anyone who has motored a W32 knows you’re lucky to get 5 knots out of the beast. Did the crew member you spoke with have any comment on that or was he sticking with just the yacht club hearsay? Because his daily runs seem unlikely to you does not mean they didn’t happen. Many folks have been surprised at the sustained speed a W32 can reach. You have experience in open ocean sailing as do I and when boats are spread out over a huge distance, sailing conditions can vary greatly. If the skipper was claiming 250 miles a day I would look askance at that. If it was 160, I would not. You say Sarband finished last yet was the overall winner. You do realize how the overall winner is selected don’t you? You also said the skipper is not a man of honor, how about knowing or hearing of a blatant, deliberate race infraction and not reporting it? I can’t find much honor in that either Mike. Cheats and thieves should be exposed at every opportunity whether it’s doping in sports or cheating at sailboat racing. I don’t mean to pick on you but you make some pretty strong accusations and I still haven’t seen any hard evidence other than a comment by a crew member. Tom --- On Tue, 8/17/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:13 PM I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of. He was not a member of a yacht club when he entered. In 1988 this was a requirement that he conveniently overlooked. His crew knew it and told me so in Oahu after the race. There were others present who were party to the conversation. His position reports stopped early into the race when he had radio trouble, when his radio trouble was repaired his daily runs were unlikely. As the last boat to finish he became the overall winner. The Pacific Cup Race Committee was not sophisticated enough or experienced enough to ask the right questions. They did not do the job they should have done. Saraband's owner is not a man of honor. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:07:18 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the current owner of a Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about the two boats. In my opinion, other than the fact that they both have big sticks with wires holding them up, they aren't much alike. After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the Westsail last summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and they are way over built. Personally I like that sense of security when the weather gets really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and my wife and I are going cruising. If we were only going to go down the coast to Mexico and putter around there, the Cal would have been a better choice. She points higher and is generally much simpler to sail. However, she was not really built to spend a couple years wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, spares, etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next to bullet proof and her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is not as fast as my Cal although on a long run with an equal amount of equipment the comparison would be interesting to see. Never the less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a racer though so if it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it was this one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last two years. Beta engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, running rigging, VHF, sail covers and hard dodger. She also has a stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for one want to see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the first I have EVER heard of that so please do share with the group. Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play with my boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make sell something one of these days. Tom Cal 2-34 Windsong W32 Anela --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM Sorry--- last transmission lost. I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the Westsail allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I believe that his "Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did not win. I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear before the awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close inspection, his deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. My Best, Mike Farrell From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 8:45:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails The what? --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM The From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement in a 35-40 ft boat two cents Scott --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM Helen, When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a lot roomier inside. Jerry --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. HH

I was keeping positions of boats that we were competing against. When roll call came in, I charted the lat lon reported. Early in the race Saraband ceased reporting. In the last few days, Saraband gave a daily position that was near us we were sailing in much lighter than average wind. We had no motor. If the daily run reported by Saraband was accurate, she must have been sailing in her own weather system that no other boats experienced. I can't say she ran her engine. If the report was not accurate her navigator made a mistake. Or for some reason early reports were in error as were later reports. Why? As for my not reporting, I discovered the missing Yacht Club after the trophy presentation which Saraband's owner did not attend. I believe the crew would know if there was a Yacht Club or not. I believed that the race committee was not interested enough to enforce the rules. Daily position reports were required. The race was poorly run. It was not my obligation to protest and if a protest was to be logged, the time to protest had expired. If you are in personal contact with Saraband's owner get him to show you his log. Then you decide. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 6:21:19 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband No offence Mike, but you’re not making sense. You're saying Sarband's skipper was not a member of a yacht club, yet still registered for the race and then you heard from someone else that he wasn't a member of any club? It seems like that would have been really easy for the race committee to check. Like one phone cal l maybe. You say they weren’t sophisticated enough to ask the right questions? You mean like “What club are you a member of?” 1988 was the 5th running of the race. By the completion of that race, over 100 boats in all had finished it if I’m not mistaken. It sounds to me like they were pretty experienced and sophisticated to pull all of that off. I’m not sure what Saraband’s radio going out has to do with anything. Why do his position reports seem unlikely to you? He and his crew either sailed or they didn’t. I’m not sure what you’re implying? Are you saying he motored across the pacific high to save time? Anyone who has motored a W32 knows you’re lucky to get 5 knots out of the beast. Did the crew member you spoke with have any comment on that or was he sticking with just the yacht club hearsay? Because his daily runs seem unlikely to you does not mean they didn’t happen. Many folks have been surprised at the sustained speed a W32 can reach. You have experience in open ocean sailing as do I and when boats are spread out over a huge distance, sailing conditions can vary greatly. If the skipper was claiming 250 miles a day I would look askance at that. If it was 160, I would not. You say Sarband finished last yet was the overall winner. You do realize how the overall winner is selected don’t you? You also said the skipper is not a man of honor, how about knowing or hearing of a blatant, deliberate race infraction and not reporting it? I can’t find much honor in that either Mike. Cheats and thieves should be exposed at every opportunity whether it’s doping in sports or cheating at sailboat racing. I don’t mean to pick on you but you make some pretty strong accusations and I still haven’t seen any hard evidence other than a comment by a crew member. Tom --- On Tue, 8/17/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net >Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:13 PM > > > > > > I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of. He was not a >member of a yacht club when he entered. In 1988 this was a requirement that he >conveniently overlooked. His crew knew it and told me so in Oahu after the >race. There were others present who were party to the conversation. His >position reports stopped early into the race when he had radio trouble, when >his radio trouble was repaired his daily runs were unlikely. As the last boat >to finish he became the overall winner. The Pacific Cup Race Committee was not >sophisticated enough or experienced enough to ask the right questions. They did >not do the job they should have done. Saraband's owner is not a man of honor. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > > > From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:07:18 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > >Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the current owner of a >Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about the two boats. In my opinion, >other than the fact that they both have big sticks with wires holding them up, >they aren't much alike. After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the >Westsail last summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love >them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and they are way >over built. Personally I like that sense of security when the weather gets >really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and my wife and I are going cruising. >If we were only going to go down the coast to Mexico and putter around there, >the Cal would have been a better choice. She points higher and is >generally much simpler to sail. However, she was not really built to spend a >couple years wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. > >The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, spares, >etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next to bullet proof and >her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is not as fast as my Cal although >on a long run with an equal amount of equipment the comparison would be >interesting to see. Never the less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a >racer though so if it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been >looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it was this >one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last two years. Beta >engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, running rigging, VHF, sail >covers and hard dodger. She also has a stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. > >So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for one want to >see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the first I have EVER heard of >that so please do share with the group. > >Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play with my >boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make sell something one of >these days. > > >Tom > >Cal 2-34 Windsong >W32 Anela > >--- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net >>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM >> >> >> >> >> >>Sorry--- last transmission lost. >> I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the Westsail >>allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I believe that his >>"Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did not win. >> I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear before the >>awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close inspection, his >>deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. >> My Best, Mike Farrell >> >> >> >> >> From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 8:45:02 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >> >> >> >> >>The what? >> >>--- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>>From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM >>> >>> >>> >>>The >>> >>> >>> >>> From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has a full >>>keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. >>> >>>Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all around >>> >>>I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on its own >>>thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable ride >>>no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 >>> >>>I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement >>>in a 35-40 ft boat >>> >>>two cents >>>Scott >>> >>>--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >>>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Helen, >>>>When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I mean, when you >>>>get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that is as much or more fun >>>>then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm missing something. Not to say that >>>>free diving around the reefs looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or >>>>hiking the trails and seeing the vistas. >>>>Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I wish it were a >>>>lot roomier inside. >>>>Jerry >>>> >>>>--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >>>>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as well as sail >>>>>(still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my own big boat, I spent 2 >>>>>years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had been building my own surfboards. I >>>>>think that a Westsail, almost got one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't >>>>>even look that fancy) are nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz >>>>>boatbuilding/racing friends reminded me whenever I found a new potential >>>>>sailboat, the simple question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do >>>>>you want to spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my >>>>>house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most IPs and >>>>>Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their lives at the dock. >>>>>HH >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >

Tom: Great post that answered several of my longstanding questions. Although I own a Cal 34, I too have admired the WS 32's from afar. They have always looked like the very boat you describe. Solid, comfortable, sea-kindly and over built. I've put so much time and money into my Cal that I dare not look too closely at a swap or my wife may go too. Cheers, Danny --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Tom Miller <tmiller111@...> wrote: > > Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats.� As the current owner of a Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about the two boats.� In my opinion, other than the fact that they both have big sticks with wires holding them up, they aren't much alike.� <SNIP>

There is a long history of mysterious doings after dark, or even in daylight, on long races. An owner of an Ericson 39, on which he had spent a lot of money upgrading, was banned for life from PHRF racing in southern California after his crew turned him in for running his engine at night. That was about 1973. It was a beautiful boat. We used to see boats abeam that had reported positions well ahead of us. In the old days, it got their names in the paper as leading the class for a day. Finally, my crew came up with a slogan; "The Danforth doesn't lie." The meaning, of course, is that the only position that counts is the one at the end of the race. Nowadays, few people are interested in long races and the newspapers certainly aren't since Al Lockaby died. I even have a movie from the Transpac showing a boat abeam that had reported himself 50 miles ahead of us. Maybe his sextant was stuck. Mike Kennedy On Aug 18, 2010, at 2:40 AM, mike farrell wrote: > > I was keeping positions of boats that we were competing > against. When roll call came in, I charted the lat lon reported. > Early in the race Saraband ceased reporting. In the last few days, > Saraband gave a daily position that was near us we were sailing in > much lighter than average wind. We had no motor. If the daily run > reported by Saraband was accurate, she must have been sailing in her > own weather system that no other boats experienced. I can't say she > ran her engine. If the report was not accurate her navigator made a > mistake. Or for some reason early reports were in error as were > later reports. Why? > As for my not reporting, I discovered the missing Yacht > Club after the trophy presentation which Saraband's owner did not > attend. I believe the crew would know if there was a Yacht Club or > not. I believed that the race committee was not interested enough to > enforce the rules. Daily position reports were required. The race > was poorly run. It was not my obligation to protest and if a protest > was to be logged, the time to protest had expired. If you are in > personal contact with Saraband's owner get him to show you his log. > Then you decide. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 6:21:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband > > > > No offence Mike, but you’re not making sense. > > You're saying Sarband's skipper was not a member of a yacht club, > yet still registered for the race and then you heard from someone > else that he wasn't a member of any club? It seems like that would > have been really easy for the race committee to check. Like one > phone cal l maybe. You say they weren’t sophisticated enough to ask > the right questions? You mean like “What club are you a member > of?” 1988 was the 5th running of the race. By the completion of > that race, over 100 boats in all had finished it if I’m not > mistaken. It sounds to me like they were pretty experienced and > sophisticated to pull all of that off. > > I’m not sure what Saraband’s radio going out has to do with > anything. Why do his position reports seem unlikely to you? He and > his crew either sailed or they didn’t. I’m not sure what you’re > implying? Are you saying he motored across the pacific high to save > time? Anyone who has motored a W32 knows you’re lucky to get 5 > knots out of the beast. Did the crew member you spoke with have any > comment on that or was he sticking with just the yacht club hearsay? > Because his daily runs seem unlikely to you does not mean they > didn’t happen. Many folks have been surprised at the sustained > speed a W32 can reach. You have experience in open ocean sailing as > do I and when boats are spread out over a huge distance, sailing > conditions can vary greatly. If the skipper was claiming 250 miles > a day I would look askance at that. If it was 160, I would not. > > You say Sarband finished last yet was the overall winner. You do > realize how the overall winner is selected don’t you? You also said > the skipper is not a man of honor, how about knowing or hearing of a > blatant, deliberate race infraction and not reporting it? I can’t > find much honor in that either Mike. Cheats and thieves should be > exposed at every opportunity whether it’s doping in sports or > cheating at sailboat racing. > > I don’t mean to pick on you but you make some pretty strong > accusations and I still haven’t seen any hard evidence other than a > comment by a crew member. > > Tom > > > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:13 PM > > > > I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of. > He was not a member of a yacht club when he entered. In 1988 this > was a requirement that he conveniently overlooked. His crew knew it > and told me so in Oahu after the race. There were others present > who were party to the conversation. His position reports stopped > early into the race when he had radio trouble, when his radio > trouble was repaired his daily runs were unlikely. As the last boat > to finish he became the overall winner. The Pacific Cup Race > Committee was not sophisticated enough or experienced enough to ask > the right questions. They did not do the job they should have done. > Saraband's owner is not a man of honor. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:07:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the > current owner of a Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about > the two boats. In my opinion, other than the fact that they both > have big sticks with wires holding them up, they aren't much alike. > After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the Westsail last > summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love > them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and > they are way over built. Personally I like that sense of security > when the weather gets really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and > my wife and I are going cruising. If we were only going to go down > the coast to Mexico and putter around there, the Cal would have been > a better choice. She points higher and is generally much simpler to > sail. However, she was not really built to spend a couple years > wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. > > The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, > spares, etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next > to bullet proof and her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is > not as fast as my Cal although on a long run with an equal amount of > equipment the comparison would be interesting to see. Never the > less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a racer though so if > it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been > looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it > was this one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last > two years. Beta engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, > running rigging, VHF, sail covers and hard dodger. She also has a > stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. > > So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for > one want to see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the > first I have EVER heard of that so please do share with the group. > > Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play > with my boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make > sell something one of these days. > > Tom > > Cal 2-34 Windsong > W32 Anela > > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM > > > > Sorry--- last transmission lost. > I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the > Westsail allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I > believe that his "Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did > not win. > I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear > before the awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close > inspection, his deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > > > From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 8:45:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > The what? > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM > > > The > > From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has > a full > keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. > > Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all > around > > I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on > its own > thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable > ride > no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 > > I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement > in a 35-40 ft boat > > two cents > Scott > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM > > > Helen, > When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I > mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that > is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm > missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs > looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails > and seeing the vistas. > Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I > wish it were a lot roomier inside. > Jerry > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM > > > Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as > well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my > own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had > been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got > one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are > nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends > reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple > question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to > spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my > house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most > IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their > lives at the dock. HH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Interesting comments Mike. You did say Saraband experienced radio problems. As a ham operator myself I can vouch for the fact that in a salt water environment HF radios have problems sometimes so the fact that they lost contact doesn't mean much regardless of whether the rules call for it. If the thing doesn't work, there isn't much you can do except try and fix it. I have no idea nor do you, why Saraband's skipper didn't attend the ceremony. I don't find that significant without further information. I can't comment on Saraband's progress compared to the boat you were on. I do know the skipper is very experienced and apparently a good sailor. He did finish in the top 3 overall two years later in the 1990 Pacific Cup so maybe he is just a better sailor. The guy has 150,000 nm as a delivery skipper and he competed in the Single Handed Transpac this year on Saraband. As for the race being poorly managed, I wasn't there so the only thing I have to go on is their record and your observations. It's surely possible that they botched everything though. Maybe they should stop calling it the "Fun Race" and get serious about the rules. As for the yacht club membership business, it's still hearsay with no evidence Mike. I can say it doesn't make sense to me though. There are local yacht clubs all over the Oregon coast. For $150.00 a year I could join the one where my boats are (Brookings, Or). I'm sure it's the same deal in the Portland area. I have never met Saraband's skipper but I would like to. If I ever do I'll ask about the logs. Tom --- On Wed, 8/18/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 2:40 AM I was keeping positions of boats that we were competing against. When roll call came in, I charted the lat lon reported. Early in the race Saraband ceased reporting. In the last few days, Saraband gave a daily position that was near us we were sailing in much lighter than average wind. We had no motor. If the daily run reported by Saraband was accurate, she must have been sailing in her own weather system that no other boats experienced. I can't say she ran her engine. If the report was not accurate her navigator made a mistake. Or for some reason early reports were in error as were later reports. Why? As for my not reporting, I discovered the missing Yacht Club after the trophy presentation which Saraband's owner did not attend. I believe the crew would know if there was a Yacht Club or not. I believed that the race committee was not interested enough to enforce the rules. Daily position reports were required. The race was poorly run. It was not my obligation to protest and if a protest was to be logged, the time to protest had expired. If you are in personal contact with Saraband's owner get him to show you his log. Then you decide. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 6:21:19 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband No offence Mike, but you’re not making sense. You're saying Sarband's skipper was not a member of a yacht club, yet still registered for the race and then you heard from someone else that he wasn't a member of any club? It seems like that would have been really easy for the race committee to check. Like one phone cal l maybe. You say they weren’t sophisticated enough to ask the right questions? You mean like “What club are you a member of?” 1988 was the 5th running of the race. By the completion of that race, over 100 boats in all had finished it if I’m not mistaken. It sounds to me like they were pretty experienced and sophisticated to pull all of that off. I’m not sure what Saraband’s radio going out has to do with anything. Why do his position reports seem unlikely to you? He and his crew either sailed or they didn’t. I’m not sure what you’re implying? Are you saying he motored across the pacific high to save time? Anyone who has motored a W32 knows you’re lucky to get 5 knots out of the beast. Did the crew member you spoke with have any comment on that or was he sticking with just the yacht club hearsay? Because his daily runs seem unlikely to you does not mean they didn’t happen. Many folks have been surprised at the sustained speed a W32 can reach. You have experience in open ocean sailing as do I and when boats are spread out over a huge distance, sailing conditions can vary greatly. If the skipper was claiming 250 miles a day I would look askance at that. If it was 160, I would not. You say Sarband finished last yet was the overall winner. You do realize how the overall winner is selected don’t you? You also said the skipper is not a man of honor, how about knowing or hearing of a blatant, deliberate race infraction and not reporting it? I can’t find much honor in that either Mike. Cheats and thieves should be exposed at every opportunity whether it’s doping in sports or cheating at sailboat racing. I don’t mean to pick on you but you make some pretty strong accusations and I still haven’t seen any hard evidence other than a comment by a crew member. Tom --- On Tue, 8/17/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:13 PM I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of. He was not a member of a yacht club when he entered. In 1988 this was a requirement that he conveniently overlooked. His crew knew it and told me so in Oahu after the race. There were others present who were party to the conversation. His position reports stopped early into the race when he had radio trouble, when his radio trouble was repaired his daily runs were unlikely. As the last boat to finish he became the overall winner. The Pacific Cup Race Committee was not sophisticated enough or experienced enough to ask the right questions. They did not do the job they should have done. Saraband's owner is not a man of honor. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:07:18 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the current owner of a Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about the two boats. In my opinion, other than the fact that they both have big sticks with wires holding them up, they aren't much alike. After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the Westsail last summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and they are way over built. Personally I like that sense of security when the weather gets really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and my wife and I are going cruising. If we were only going to go down the coast to Mexico and putter around there, the Cal would have been a better choice. She points higher and is generally much simpler to sail. However, she was not really built to spend a couple years wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, spares, etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next to bullet proof and her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is not as fast as my Cal although on a long run with an equal amount of equipment the comparison would be interesting to see. Never the less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a racer though so if it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it was this one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last two years. Beta engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, running rigging, VHF, sail covers and hard dodger. She also has a stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for one want to see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the first I have EVER heard of that so please do share with the group. Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play with my boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make sell something one of these days. Tom Cal 2-34 Windsong W32 Anela --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM Sorry--- last transmission lost. I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the Westsail allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I believe that his "Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did not win. I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear before the awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close inspection, his deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. My Best, Mike Farrell

If you were a member of any yacht club, anywhere, there would be a record of it, as member info is part of the justification of being a yacht club. So if he was, regardless of how cheap or expensive his dues or initiation fee, there will be the proof. So until proven otherwise, if he didn't have the membership, he didn't. Sometimes most admirable experienced people (nm included) can try to wing it and disregard rules. Ask him directly for his club affiliation, verify with the club as to whether or not he was a full dues paying member at the time of registration for that race. As a member of a club myself, and our club's delegate to PICYA (Pacific InterClub Yachting Association) I know clubs' fees vary but one knows quite well to whom( one or more clubs) one pays ones dues. Participation in YRA events involves following rules. If a crewmember observed rules broken, the report should have gone to committee. Sometimes race committees don't want to know, sometimes there is a vested interest, though I'm sure that is few and far between. The crew could be concerned he wouldn't get that flight back to the mainland. He could be resentful of something that happened on the trip. Regardless, if it matters, it still should be investigated, in the interest of integrity, no matter who or how wonderful this skipper may be. If there was no broken rule, it should stand corrected. No point in this list taking it out on each other, as it looks very insulting. Helen From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 11:39:22 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband Interesting comments Mike. You did say Saraband experienced radio problems. As a ham operator myself I can vouch for the fact that in a salt water environment HF radios have problems sometimes so the fact that they lost contact doesn't mean much regardless of whether the rules call for it. If the thing doesn't work, there isn't much you can do except try and fix it. I have no idea nor do you, why Saraband's skipper didn't attend the ceremony. I don't find that significant without further information. I can't comment on Saraband's progress compared to the boat you were on. I do know the skipper is very experienced and apparently a good sailor. He did finish in the top 3 overall two years later in the 1990 Pacific Cup so maybe he is just a better sailor. The guy has 150,000 nm as a delivery skipper and he competed in the Single Handed Transpac this year on Saraband. As for the race being poorly managed, I wasn't there so the only thing I have to go on is their record and your observations. It's surely possible that they botched everything though. Maybe they should stop calling it the "Fun Race" and get serious about the rules. As for the yacht club membership business, it's still hearsay with no evidence Mike. I can say it doesn't make sense to me though. There are local yacht clubs all over the Oregon coast. For $150.00 a year I could join the one where my boats are (Brookings, Or). I'm sure it's the same deal in the Portland area. I have never met Saraband's skipper but I would like to. If I ever do I'll ask about the logs. Tom --- On Wed, 8/18/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net >Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 2:40 AM > > > > > > I was keeping positions of boats that we were competing against. When roll >call came in, I charted the lat lon reported. Early in the race Saraband ceased >reporting. In the last few days, Saraband gave a daily position that was near >us we were sailing in much lighter than average wind. We had no motor. If the >daily run reported by Saraband was accurate, she must have been sailing in her >own weather system that no other boats experienced. I can't say she ran her >engine. If the report was not accurate her navigator made a mistake. Or for >some reason early reports were in error as were later reports. Why? > As for my not reporting, I discovered the missing Yacht Club after the >trophy presentation which Saraband's owner did not attend. I believe the crew >would know if there was a Yacht Club or not. I believed that the race committee >was not interested enough to enforce the rules. Daily position reports were >required. The race was poorly run. It was not my obligation to protest and if a >protest was to be logged, the time to protest had expired. If you are in >personal contact with Saraband's owner get him to show you his log. Then you >decide. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > > From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 6:21:19 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband > > > > >No offence Mike, but you’re not making sense. > >You're saying Sarband's skipper was not a member of a yacht club, yet still >registered for the race and then you heard from someone else that he wasn't a >member of any club? It seems like that would have been really easy for the race >committee to check. Like one phone cal l maybe. You say they weren’t >sophisticated enough to ask the right questions? You mean like “What club are >you a member of?” 1988 was the 5th running of the race. By the completion of >that race, over 100 boats in all had finished it if I’m not mistaken. It sounds >to me like they were pretty experienced and sophisticated to pull all of that >off. > >I’m not sure what Saraband’s radio going out has to do with anything. Why do his >position reports seem unlikely to you? He and his crew either sailed or they >didn’t. I’m not sure what you’re implying? Are you saying he motored across >the pacific high to save time? Anyone who has motored a W32 knows you’re lucky >to get 5 knots out of the beast. Did the crew member you spoke with have any >comment on that or was he sticking with just the yacht club hearsay? Because his >daily runs seem unlikely to you does not mean they didn’t happen. Many folks >have been surprised at the sustained speed a W32 can reach. You have experience >in open ocean sailing as do I and when boats are spread out over a huge >distance, sailing conditions can vary greatly. If the skipper was claiming 250 >miles a day I would look askance at that. If it was 160, I would not. > > >You say Sarband finished last yet was the overall winner. You do realize how >the overall winner is selected don’t you? You also said the skipper is not a >man of honor, how about knowing or hearing of a blatant, deliberate race >infraction and not reporting it? I can’t find much honor in that either Mike. >Cheats and thieves should be exposed at every opportunity whether it’s doping in >sports or cheating at sailboat racing. > >I don’t mean to pick on you but you make some pretty strong accusations and I >still haven’t seen any hard evidence other than a comment by a crew member. > >Tom > >--- On Tue, 8/17/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net >>Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:13 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of. He was not a >>member of a yacht club when he entered. In 1988 this was a requirement that he >>conveniently overlooked. His crew knew it and told me so in Oahu after the >>race. There were others present who were party to the conversation. His >>position reports stopped early into the race when he had radio trouble, when >>his radio trouble was repaired his daily runs were unlikely. As the last boat >>to finish he became the overall winner. The Pacific Cup Race Committee was not >>sophisticated enough or experienced enough to ask the right questions. They did >>not do the job they should have done. Saraband's owner is not a man of honor. >> My Best, Mike Farrell >> >> >> >> From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:07:18 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >> >> >> >> >>Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the current owner of a >>Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about the two boats. In my opinion, >>other than the fact that they both have big sticks with wires holding them up, >>they aren't much alike. After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the >>Westsail last summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love >>them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and they are way >>over built. Personally I like that sense of security when the weather gets >>really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and my wife and I are going cruising. >>If we were only going to go down the coast to Mexico and putter around there, >>the Cal would have been a better choice. She points higher and is >>generally much simpler to sail. However, she was not really built to spend a >>couple years wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. >> >>The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, spares, >>etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next to bullet proof and >>her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is not as fast as my Cal although >>on a long run with an equal amount of equipment the comparison would be >>interesting to see. Never the less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a >>racer though so if it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been >>looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it was this >>one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last two years. Beta >>engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, running rigging, VHF, sail >>covers and hard dodger. She also has a stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. >> >>So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for one want to >>see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the first I have EVER heard of >>that so please do share with the group. >> >>Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play with my >>boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make sell something one of >>these days. >> >> >>Tom >> >>Cal 2-34 Windsong >>W32 Anela >> >>--- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>>From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net >>>Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sorry--- last transmission lost. >>> I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the Westsail >>>allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I believe that his >>>"Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did not win. >>> I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear before the >>>awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close inspection, his >>>deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. >>> My Best, Mike Farrell >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >

Thank you for understanding! If you have never been there. you just don't know. some will do anything to "win" without realizing that following the rules is what keeps the racing fair. A win involving deception is not a win at all. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Michael Kennedy <mi… [at] mac.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 9:50:16 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband There is a long history of mysterious doings after dark, or even in daylight, on long races. An owner of an Ericson 39, on which he had spent a lot of money upgrading, was banned for life from PHRF racing in southern California after his crew turned him in for running his engine at night. That was about 1973. It was a beautiful boat. We used to see boats abeam that had reported positions well ahead of us. In the old days, it got their names in the paper as leading the class for a day. Finally, my crew came up with a slogan; "The Danforth doesn't lie." The meaning, of course, is that the only position that counts is the one at the end of the race. Nowadays, few people are interested in long races and the newspapers certainly aren't since Al Lockaby died. I even have a movie from the Transpac showing a boat abeam that had reported himself 50 miles ahead of us. Maybe his sextant was stuck. Mike Kennedy On Aug 18, 2010, at 2:40 AM, mike farrell wrote: > > I was keeping positions of boats that we were competing > against. When roll call came in, I charted the lat lon reported. > Early in the race Saraband ceased reporting. In the last few days, > Saraband gave a daily position that was near us we were sailing in > much lighter than average wind. We had no motor. If the daily run > reported by Saraband was accurate, she must have been sailing in her > own weather system that no other boats experienced. I can't say she > ran her engine. If the report was not accurate her navigator made a > mistake. Or for some reason early reports were in error as were > later reports. Why? > As for my not reporting, I discovered the missing Yacht > Club after the trophy presentation which Saraband's owner did not > attend. I believe the crew would know if there was a Yacht Club or > not. I believed that the race committee was not interested enough to > enforce the rules. Daily position reports were required. The race > was poorly run. It was not my obligation to protest and if a protest > was to be logged, the time to protest had expired. If you are in > personal contact with Saraband's owner get him to show you his log. > Then you decide. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 6:21:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband > > > > No offence Mike, but you’re not making sense. > > You're saying Sarband's skipper was not a member of a yacht club, > yet still registered for the race and then you heard from someone > else that he wasn't a member of any club? It seems like that would > have been really easy for the race committee to check. Like one > phone cal l maybe. You say they weren’t sophisticated enough to ask > the right questions? You mean like “What club are you a member > of?” 1988 was the 5th running of the race. By the completion of > that race, over 100 boats in all had finished it if I’m not > mistaken. It sounds to me like they were pretty experienced and > sophisticated to pull all of that off. > > I’m not sure what Saraband’s radio going out has to do with > anything. Why do his position reports seem unlikely to you? He and > his crew either sailed or they didn’t. I’m not sure what you’re > implying? Are you saying he motored across the pacific high to save > time? Anyone who has motored a W32 knows you’re lucky to get 5 > knots out of the beast. Did the crew member you spoke with have any > comment on that or was he sticking with just the yacht club hearsay? > Because his daily runs seem unlikely to you does not mean they > didn’t happen. Many folks have been surprised at the sustained > speed a W32 can reach. You have experience in open ocean sailing as > do I and when boats are spread out over a huge distance, sailing > conditions can vary greatly. If the skipper was claiming 250 miles > a day I would look askance at that. If it was 160, I would not. > > You say Sarband finished last yet was the overall winner. You do > realize how the overall winner is selected don’t you? You also said > the skipper is not a man of honor, how about knowing or hearing of a > blatant, deliberate race infraction and not reporting it? I can’t > find much honor in that either Mike. Cheats and thieves should be > exposed at every opportunity whether it’s doping in sports or > cheating at sailboat racing. > > I don’t mean to pick on you but you make some pretty strong > accusations and I still haven’t seen any hard evidence other than a > comment by a crew member. > > Tom > > > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:13 PM > > > > I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of. > He was not a member of a yacht club when he entered. In 1988 this > was a requirement that he conveniently overlooked. His crew knew it > and told me so in Oahu after the race. There were others present > who were party to the conversation. His position reports stopped > early into the race when he had radio trouble, when his radio > trouble was repaired his daily runs were unlikely. As the last boat > to finish he became the overall winner. The Pacific Cup Race > Committee was not sophisticated enough or experienced enough to ask > the right questions. They did not do the job they should have done. > Saraband's owner is not a man of honor. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:07:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the > current owner of a Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about > the two boats. In my opinion, other than the fact that they both > have big sticks with wires holding them up, they aren't much alike. > After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the Westsail last > summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love > them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and > they are way over built. Personally I like that sense of security > when the weather gets really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and > my wife and I are going cruising. If we were only going to go down > the coast to Mexico and putter around there, the Cal would have been > a better choice. She points higher and is generally much simpler to > sail. However, she was not really built to spend a couple years > wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. > > The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, > spares, etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next > to bullet proof and her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is > not as fast as my Cal although on a long run with an equal amount of > equipment the comparison would be interesting to see. Never the > less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a racer though so if > it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been > looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it > was this one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last > two years. Beta engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, > running rigging, VHF, sail covers and hard dodger. She also has a > stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. > > So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for > one want to see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the > first I have EVER heard of that so please do share with the group. > > Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play > with my boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make > sell something one of these days. > > Tom > > Cal 2-34 Windsong > W32 Anela > > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM > > > > Sorry--- last transmission lost. > I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the > Westsail allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I > believe that his "Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did > not win. > I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear > before the awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close > inspection, his deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > > > From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 8:45:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > The what? > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM > > > The > > From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has > a full > keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. > > Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all > around > > I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on > its own > thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable > ride > no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 > > I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement > in a 35-40 ft boat > > two cents > Scott > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM > > > Helen, > When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I > mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that > is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm > missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs > looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails > and seeing the vistas. > Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I > wish it were a lot roomier inside. > Jerry > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM > > > Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as > well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my > own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had > been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got > one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are > nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends > reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple > question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to > spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my > house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most > IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their > lives at the dock. HH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

...."following the rules is what keeps the racing fair".... keeps racing fun AND worth doing! Mike To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com CC: be… [at] prodigy.net From: ve… [at] yahoo.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:32:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband Thank you for understanding! If you have never been there. you just don't know. some will do anything to "win" without realizing that following the rules is what keeps the racing fair. A win involving deception is not a win at all. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Michael Kennedy <mi… [at] mac.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 9:50:16 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband There is a long history of mysterious doings after dark, or even in daylight, on long races. An owner of an Ericson 39, on which he had spent a lot of money upgrading, was banned for life from PHRF racing in southern California after his crew turned him in for running his engine at night. That was about 1973. It was a beautiful boat. We used to see boats abeam that had reported positions well ahead of us. In the old days, it got their names in the paper as leading the class for a day. Finally, my crew came up with a slogan; "The Danforth doesn't lie." The meaning, of course, is that the only position that counts is the one at the end of the race. Nowadays, few people are interested in long races and the newspapers certainly aren't since Al Lockaby died. I even have a movie from the Transpac showing a boat abeam that had reported himself 50 miles ahead of us. Maybe his sextant was stuck. Mike Kennedy On Aug 18, 2010, at 2:40 AM, mike farrell wrote: > > I was keeping positions of boats that we were competing > against. When roll call came in, I charted the lat lon reported. > Early in the race Saraband ceased reporting. In the last few days, > Saraband gave a daily position that was near us we were sailing in > much lighter than average wind. We had no motor. If the daily run > reported by Saraband was accurate, she must have been sailing in her > own weather system that no other boats experienced. I can't say she > ran her engine. If the report was not accurate her navigator made a > mistake. Or for some reason early reports were in error as were > later reports. Why? > As for my not reporting, I discovered the missing Yacht > Club after the trophy presentation which Saraband's owner did not > attend. I believe the crew would know if there was a Yacht Club or > not. I believed that the race committee was not interested enough to > enforce the rules. Daily position reports were required. The race > was poorly run. It was not my obligation to protest and if a protest > was to be logged, the time to protest had expired. If you are in > personal contact with Saraband's owner get him to show you his log. > Then you decide. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 6:21:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1988 Pacific Cup and Saraband > > > > No offence Mike, but you’re not making sense. > > You're saying Sarband's skipper was not a member of a yacht club, > yet still registered for the race and then you heard from someone > else that he wasn't a member of any club? It seems like that would > have been really easy for the race committee to check. Like one > phone cal l maybe. You say they weren’t sophisticated enough to ask > the right questions? You mean like “What club are you a member > of?” 1988 was the 5th running of the race. By the completion of > that race, over 100 boats in all had finished it if I’m not > mistaken. It sounds to me like they were pretty experienced and > sophisticated to pull all of that off. > > I’m not sure what Saraband’s radio going out has to do with > anything. Why do his position reports seem unlikely to you? He and > his crew either sailed or they didn’t. I’m not sure what you’re > implying? Are you saying he motored across the pacific high to save > time? Anyone who has motored a W32 knows you’re lucky to get 5 > knots out of the beast. Did the crew member you spoke with have any > comment on that or was he sticking with just the yacht club hearsay? > Because his daily runs seem unlikely to you does not mean they > didn’t happen. Many folks have been surprised at the sustained > speed a W32 can reach. You have experience in open ocean sailing as > do I and when boats are spread out over a huge distance, sailing > conditions can vary greatly. If the skipper was claiming 250 miles > a day I would look askance at that. If it was 160, I would not. > > You say Sarband finished last yet was the overall winner. You do > realize how the overall winner is selected don’t you? You also said > the skipper is not a man of honor, how about knowing or hearing of a > blatant, deliberate race infraction and not reporting it? I can’t > find much honor in that either Mike. Cheats and thieves should be > exposed at every opportunity whether it’s doping in sports or > cheating at sailboat racing. > > I don’t mean to pick on you but you make some pretty strong > accusations and I still haven’t seen any hard evidence other than a > comment by a crew member. > > Tom > > > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:13 PM > > > > I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of. > He was not a member of a yacht club when he entered. In 1988 this > was a requirement that he conveniently overlooked. His crew knew it > and told me so in Oahu after the race. There were others present > who were party to the conversation. His position reports stopped > early into the race when he had radio trouble, when his radio > trouble was repaired his daily runs were unlikely. As the last boat > to finish he became the overall winner. The Pacific Cup Race > Committee was not sophisticated enough or experienced enough to ask > the right questions. They did not do the job they should have done. > Saraband's owner is not a man of honor. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > From: Tom Miller <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:07:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > Phew, sounds like a lot of talk about Westsail boats. As the > current owner of a Westsail 32 and a Cal 2-34, I know a little about > the two boats. In my opinion, other than the fact that they both > have big sticks with wires holding them up, they aren't much alike. > After owning the Cal for 18 years, I bought the Westsail last > summer. They are most definitely a "cult" boat. You either love > them or you don't. I have always liked the traditional styling and > they are way over built. Personally I like that sense of security > when the weather gets really shi*&%. I am retiring in 3 years and > my wife and I are going cruising. If we were only going to go down > the coast to Mexico and putter around there, the Cal would have been > a better choice. She points higher and is generally much simpler to > sail. However, she was not really built to spend a couple years > wandering around the Pacific although many folks have. > > The W32 has the ability to carry a much greater quantity of stores, > spares, etc. Her motion at sea is a lot smoother, her hull is next > to bullet proof and her standing rigging is extremely stout. She is > not as fast as my Cal although on a long run with an equal amount of > equipment the comparison would be interesting to see. Never the > less, speed is also a safety factor. I am not a racer though so if > it takes a little longer, I'm OK with that. While I had been > looking at W32's for a number of years the thing that finally did it > was this one had all of the following equipment replaced in the last > two years. Beta engine, sails, chart plotter, standing rigging, > running rigging, VHF, sail covers and hard dodger. She also has a > stainless steel bowsprit and boomkin. > > So, in my opinion they are just different boats. By the way, I for > one want to see the evidence that Saraband cheated. This is the > first I have EVER heard of that so please do share with the group. > > Well, I'll go back to lurking. Two more days and I get to go play > with my boats. :) I better enjoy it now, my wife is going to make > sell something one of these days. > > Tom > > Cal 2-34 Windsong > W32 Anela > > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cc: be… [at] prodigy.net > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:56 PM > > > > Sorry--- last transmission lost. > I sailed the Pacific Cup in 1988, This is the year the > Westsail allegedly won the race. there are MANY irregularities. I > believe that his "Win" is subject to investigation. He knows he did > not win. > I can supply details! He lied, he cheated. Why did he disappear > before the awards ceremony? Answer: He could not stand up to close > inspection, his deception would have been discovered. SARABAND. > My Best, Mike Farrell > > > > From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 8:45:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > The what? > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:41 PM > > > The > > From: scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 5:56:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > > > > A wetsnail won the transpac in SF Bay when it blows a boat that has > a full > keel and got more tonnage than a fin keel is great. > > Helen its the ride a nice stable ride is better than bouncing all > around > > I want a boat that you can leave the helm and it will steer track on > its own > thats comfort currently I have sailed on a Cape Dory 36 nice stable > ride > no need to reef till 25-30knots try that on a Cal 29 > > I'm sorry to say the Cal 29 is not for me I want 16-20k displacement > in a 35-40 ft boat > > two cents > Scott > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 5:42 PM > > > Helen, > When it comes to sailing, isn't getting there most of the fun? I > mean, when you get to Catalina or Channel Islands, what's there that > is as much or more fun then the trip over. I'm all ears, maybe I'm > missing something. Not to say that free diving around the reefs > looking at the kelp fauna and flora isn't fun, or hiking the trails > and seeing the vistas. > Anyway, that's why I decided on a small boat, although at times I > wish it were a lot roomier inside. > Jerry > > --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] wetsnails > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:40 PM > > > Before I bought my 29, I raced on Santa Cruz 27 and Santana 35 as > well as sail (still) my force 5. When I got serious about owning my > own big boat, I spent 2 years shopping. 30 years prior to that I had > been building my own surfboards. I think that a Westsail, almost got > one, or an Island Packet (my house doesn't even look that fancy) are > nice boats to live on BUT, my Santa Cruz boatbuilding/racing friends > reminded me whenever I found a new potential sailboat, the simple > question is: Do you want to get there and have fun or do you want to > spend all your time getting there? Plus, IPs cost more than my > house. Thus the need for the LLoyd's insurance policy. I think most > IPs and Westsails(those that ever got finished) spend most of their > lives at the dock. HH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links