Re: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems (Linda)

Re: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems (Linda)

2 messages2010-08-19 17:37 UTCthrough 2010-08-19 22:54 UTC

Re: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems (Linda)

pw… [at] aol.com2010-08-19 17:37 UTC
What people don't realize is that marine fuel tanks are vented to the outside air, which in a marine environment, is naturally laden with moisture. This moisture will condense on the side of the tanks and eventually make its way to the bottom of the tank and corrode the tank. This moisture also will allow microbes to grow (generally referred to as algae) which can clog filters. Biocide may kill the microbes but you are still left with their carcasses. All this will settle to the bottom. You won't know it is there for some time because the pick up tube on your tank is generally an inch or two from the bottom of the tank. What usually happens is that you get out in some rough weather and the fuel sloshes around and stirs up all the crap on the bottom and re-suspends it in the fuel. On the way back to the dock, or maybe you decide the weather is too rough, you take down the sails, fire up the iron genny and all of the sudden the she dies and may restart but every time you try to throttle up, she dies again because the filter is clogged. We had our CS 30 delivered to us from CT to the Delaware Bay as we were new sailors at the time and were not comfortable doing an offshore delivery. This is exactly what happened to the delivery crew. They got pushed 150 miles out into the Atlantic in 35kt winds and 20-30ft seas. They had an accidental gybe in the middle of the night that ripped the Harken traveler car right off the track and into one of the Lewmar blocks on the boom which looks as if it were melted. They tried to use the engine but couldn't due to the clogged filter and eventually had to sail into the Coast Guard dock in Lewes, DE. It doesn't take 30' seas to do this by the way. Simply tacking a few times and moderate 2 foot waves can stir up the sludge. I am acutely aware of this as I have a fuel polishing and tank cleaning business on the Chesapeake and you can see photos of the crap I've pulled out of tanks at _www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com_ (http://www.D ocksideMobileMarineService.com) As with anything, maintenance is the key to long life. Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service 443-614-4070 In a message dated 8/19/2010 1:13:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, da… [at] verizon.net writes: I had the same thing happen to the fuel tank on my I h 33-2 when I got back from Hurricane Ivan in 2004. The fuel tank had corroded and then popped several small pin holes that had drained the entire tank of diesel down into the bilge. I had 24 gals. My corrosion was at the rear inboard section of the tank. I originally covered the area over with JB Weld and that seemed to work very well. Although my wife continued to smell of diesel. So… This year I called Florida Marine Tank (who originally made the first tank) and had them make me a new one. Cost about $400. I was surprised because in 2004 the price was only $175. Anyway, took the plunge and got it. Replacing the tank was an absolute bear and took me 2 weekends to get it all right. Good luck on finding the leak. It can be a challenge. Darr LaFon Alcyone II Cal 33-2 #67 Annapolis, Maryland From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Waschka Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems (Linda) I had a similar problem with my 33, but the smell was obviously raw diesel. After 6 months or so, I finally got diesel in the bilge. My tank had corroded in the forward inboard (lowest) corner from having water in it. At first the diesel was evaporating faster than it was leaking, so I just had a dark reddish brown stain in the vicinity of the tank and diesel smell in the cabin. When the tank finally failed, it just had a pinhole in it, but it was enough to get about 1/8" of diesel in the bilge before I found it. Trust me, that is a real mess to clean up. I pulled the cabin sole to get access to the whole bilge to clean it to get rid of the diesel smell. The hole was in the middle of a corroded area the size of a nickel. When I scraped on it with a screwdriver after removing the tank, it pushed right in. I was a few months or a bad wave slam from having 37 gallons of diesel in the bilge. If you didn't smell it when you left the boat and do smell it when you come back, that doesn't sound like exhaust. But if it is stronger after running the engine, it could be diesel, exhaust, engine lube oil, or transmission oil. Don't stop looking until you find the leak. Diesel is bad, but if it is exhaust you could have a carbon monoxide problem. It could be cracking fuel or exhaust hoses, loose clamps, or worst case a leaking tank. My 33 has a water lift exhaust, it is plastic. IF there was no cooling water it might melt and leak. Look all over your engine, too. There is a fuel filter, a pump, and injector lines. If you can smell it, you should be able to find it. P.S. - Probably no blower in a diesel boat. Diesel fumes are not explosive like gasoline and there is no requirement (as far as I know) for a blower on a boat with a diesel engine. Also, my beeper (1985 Yanmar 3GM30) signals low oil pressure or overtemperature. When you turn on the key there is no oil pressure so the beeper sounds. When you crank the engine, the pressure comes up and the beeper goes off. Al --- On Wed, 8/18/10, Linda <an… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: Linda <an… [at] gmail.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 11:48 AM Hello everyone! I am the owner of a well maintained pre-owned 1989 I a 28 which we have enjoyed here in the beautiful 28 which we district of NY without serious incident for over 10 years. Because I have been recovering from chemotherapy this season, I have not spent much time aboard until just recently. In the past several weeks, I have felt good enough to spend some time with "Sonsie" and have found something that puzzles and concerns me. I'm hoping you can help me figure out the mystery. Recently I have been noticing that, upon opening the boat after a time away, there is a stronger than usual smell of petroleum. At first I thought a bottle of furniture polish/wood cleaner had been knocked over, but that wasn't the case. The smell was not pure diesel fumes, so I didn't suspect a fuel leak and the bilge did not show any signs of oil. The water discharge from the engine did not seemed decreased and the engine ran fine. On Tuesday night, because there was no wind, I used the engine to take some guests on a short jaunt to some points of interest on the lake, and when we returned the petroleum smell in the cabin was very intense. Again, not just pure diesel fumes, but more like a mix of something. Yesterday I took the same guests sailing and used the engine only to get out of the harbor. However, on the way back in, about 5 minutes after the sails had been lowered and engine started, the warning beeper started squealing. ( For this particular engine, upon turning the key, the beeper squeals for a few seconds when the key is turned on and then stops, signaling that it is safe to push the ignition button). I am, sadly, not mechanically minded and have let my husband deal with the engine maintenance in the past, so I must admit to being rather naive about this sort of thing, but my guess is that my problem is with the exhaust system. My theory is that the beeping at startup is a signal that the blower has cleared out the fumes and that when it quits, it is safe to start the engine. Therefore, it seems that the intense petroleum odor after use would indicate that the exhaust is not working properly, and that the beeping that occurred last night as the engine was running was a warning that the blockage was now at a point where my engine was at risk and I was in trouble. Am I anywhere in the ballpark with this idea, or am I dealing with something else all together? I was able to turn off the engine and glide to my slip, but I am now very concerned about what to do next. I can call a mechanic to look this over, but I would like to have something intelligent to tell him when I call. Your collective opinions would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Linda S. "Sonsie" 1989 198 28 Watkins Glen, NY

RE: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems (Linda)

r good2010-08-19 22:54 UTC
Linda: have you inspected the fuel tank vent? could be plugged. all your symptoms could be explained by that. To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: pw… [at] aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:37:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems (Linda) What people don't realize is that marine fuel tanks are vented to the outside air, which in a marine environment, is naturally laden with moisture. This moisture will condense on the side of the tanks and eventually make its way to the bottom of the tank and corrode the tank. This moisture also will allow microbes to grow (generally referred to as algae) which can clog filters. Biocide may kill the microbes but you are still left with their carcasses. All this will settle to the bottom. You won't know it is there for some time because the pick up tube on your tank is generally an inch or two from the bottom of the tank. What usually happens is that you get out in some rough weather and the fuel sloshes around and stirs up all the crap on the bottom and re-suspends it in the fuel. On the way back to the dock, or maybe you decide the weather is too rough, you take down the sails, fire up the iron genny and all of the sudden the she dies and may restart but every time you try to throttle up, she dies again because the filter is clogged. We had our CS 30 delivered to us from CT to the Delaware Bay as we were new sailors at the time and were not comfortable doing an offshore delivery. This is exactly what happened to the delivery crew. They got pushed 150 miles out into the Atlantic in 35kt winds and 20-30ft seas. They had an accidental gybe in the middle of the night that ripped the Harken traveler car right off the track and into one of the Lewmar blocks on the boom which looks as if it were melted. They tried to use the engine but couldn't due to the clogged filter and eventually had to sail into the Coast Guard dock in Lewes, DE. It doesn't take 30' seas to do this by the way. Simply tacking a few times and moderate 2 foot waves can stir up the sludge. I am acutely aware of this as I have a fuel polishing and tank cleaning business on the Chesapeake and you can see photos of the crap I've pulled out of tanks at www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com As with anything, maintenance is the key to long life. Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service 443-614-4070 In a message dated 8/19/2010 1:13:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, da… [at] verizon.net writes: I had the same thing happen to the fuel tank on my Cal 33-2 when I got back from Hurricane Ivan in 2004. The fuel tank had corroded and then popped several small pin holes that had drained the entire tank of diesel down into the bilge. I had 24 gals. My corrosion was at the rear inboard section of the tank. I originally covered the area over with JB Weld and that seemed to work very well. Although my wife continued to smell of diesel. So… This year I called Florida Marine Tank (who originally made the first tank) and had them make me a new one. Cost about $400. I was surprised because in 2004 the price was only $175. Anyway, took the plunge and got it. Replacing the tank was an absolute bear and took me 2 weekends to get it all right. Good luck on finding the leak. It can be a challenge. Darr LaFon Alcyone II Cal 33-2 #67 Annapolis, Maryland From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Waschka Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems (Linda) I had a similar problem with my 33, but the smell was obviously raw diesel. After 6 months or so, I finally got diesel in the bilge. My tank had corroded in the forward inboard (lowest) corner from having water in it. At first the diesel was evaporating faster than it was leaking, so I just had a dark reddish brown stain in the vicinity of the tank and diesel smell in the cabin. When the tank finally failed, it just had a pinhole in it, but it was enough to get about 1/8" of diesel in the bilge before I found it. Trust me, that is a real mess to clean up. I pulled the cabin sole to get access to the whole bilge to clean it to get rid of the diesel smell. The hole was in the middle of a corroded area the size of a nickel. When I scraped on it with a screwdriver after removing the tank, it pushed right in. I was a few months or a bad wave slam from having 37 gallons of diesel in the bilge. If you didn't smell it when you left the boat and do smell it when you come back, that doesn't sound like exhaust. But if it is stronger after running the engine, it could be diesel, exhaust, engine lube oil, or transmission oil. Don't stop looking until you find the leak. Diesel is bad, but if it is exhaust you could have a carbon monoxide problem. It could be cracking fuel or exhaust hoses, loose clamps, or worst case a leaking tank. My 33 has a water lift exhaust, it is plastic. IF there was no cooling water it might melt and leak. Look all over your engine, too. There is a fuel filter, a pump, and injector lines. If you can smell it, you should be able to find it. P.S. - Probably no blower in a diesel boat. Diesel fumes are not explosive like gasoline and there is no requirement (as far as I know) for a blower on a boat with a diesel engine. Also, my beeper (1985 Yanmar 3GM30) signals low oil pressure or overtemperature. When you turn on the key there is no oil pressure so the beeper sounds. When you crank the engine, the pressure comes up and the beeper goes off. Al --- On Wed, 8/18/10, Linda <an… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: Linda <an… [at] gmail.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Yahnmar diesel problems To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 11:48 AM Hello everyone! I am the owner of a well maintained pre-owned 1989 Cal 28 which we have enjoyed here in the beautiful Finger Lakes district of NY without serious incident for over 10 years. Because I have been recovering from chemotherapy this season, I have not spent much time aboard until just recently. In the past several weeks, I have felt good enough to spend some time with "Sonsie" and have found something that puzzles and concerns me. I'm hoping you can help me figure out the mystery. Recently I have been noticing that, upon opening the boat after a time away, there is a stronger than usual smell of petroleum. At first I thought a bottle of furniture polish/wood cleaner had been knocked over, but that wasn't the case. The smell was not pure diesel fumes, so I didn't suspect a fuel leak and the bilge did not show any signs of oil. The water discharge from the engine did not seemed decreased and the engine ran fine. On Tuesday night, because there was no wind, I used the engine to take some guests on a short jaunt to some points of interest on the lake, and when we returned the petroleum smell in the cabin was very intense. Again, not just pure diesel fumes, but more like a mix of something. Yesterday I took the same guests sailing and used the engine only to get out of the harbor. However, on the way back in, about 5 minutes after the sails had been lowered and engine started, the warning beeper started squealing. ( For this particular engine, upon turning the key, the beeper squeals for a few seconds when the key is turned on and then stops, signaling that it is safe to push the ignition button). I am, sadly, not mechanically minded and have let my husband deal with the engine maintenance in the past, so I must admit to being rather naive about this sort of thing, but my guess is that my problem is with the exhaust system. My theory is that the beeping at startup is a signal that the blower has cleared out the fumes and that when it quits, it is safe to start the engine. Therefore, it seems that the intense petroleum odor after use would indicate that the exhaust is not working properly, and that the beeping that occurred last night as the engine was running was a warning that the blockage was now at a point where my engine was at risk and I was in trouble. Am I anywhere in the ballpark with this idea, or am I dealing with something else all together? I was able to turn off the engine and glide to my slip, but I am now very concerned about what to do next. I can call a mechanic to look this over, but I would like to have something intelligent to tell him when I call. Your collective opinions would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Linda S. "Sonsie" 1989 Cal 28 Watkins Glen, NY