(Linda) diesel/smell/tanks

There are several problems with fuel tanks, one is that just as in a car, if you keep them full, they are less likely to create condensation which turns into water in your tank, thereby permitting developing rust and also contaminating your fuel(a bigger problem than usual because keeping your tank full is expensive these days), and diesel itself needs to be treated with biocide especially if it is sitting because it gets "bugs" in it that cause bad fuel and also bad smell. (I'm assuming the tank is steel.) They will also rust on the outside if exposed to moisture, we had one rust on the bottom corner due to minute amounts of water under it. If they are aluminum, they won't rust (can deteriorate in presence of salty water) but some of the gasket/seam material used between the fill tubes and feed line fittings attached to the tank can break down. I would check all fuel lines, fill pipe, fuel feed, air vent which usually runs from the tank to a remote spot, and fuel return as suggested.Does it smell like normal diesel or bad at the vent? Fuel lines can get brittle over the years. Metal lines can be bent and crimped and can break if pulled on so be careful. (any chance there's a rodent on the boat that may have chewed on something?)Get a bright flashlight or two and an old pillow for comfort.. Also the gasket on your filter could be torn so check the seam where it screws together. Then put a white bilgesorb cloth (about a dollar at WM) under your tank and engine so if it has a leak you can see it. This whole inspection process won't take a whole day. If you find the tank leaking, you may need a new one because it is probably bad in more than one place. The tank will need to be drained to replace it. At this point, I would let the yard replace it. If your fuel isn't dirty, you will probably be able to give it away or you can recycle it if it is. If your tank is under the cockpit floor like in a 29, it can be rusting on top also from condensation. If you do have diesel in the bilge, buy a few or 10 of the white bilgesorb pads and put them under your tank and in the engine pan or anywhere you find fuel. you can always use them to catch any drips at the fill up. You can also cut them into smaller pieces to test for the fuel leaks. Don't use any Dawn or Joy to break it up because that not only is bad to pump overboard, it also makes the bilgesorb cloths actually dump the oil back into the bilge. You then take them in a plastic bag or a bucket like home depot sells to the oil recyclers. If you use gloves you can try to reuse and wring them out into a bucket. Keep a fan going from outside the cabin so you don't get sick from the diesel. That other issue, the beeping going on after running for awhile, have you checked the dipstick for your oil lately?(you should check it every time you go out) some engines actually shut off if the sensor indicates low oil to save the engine which could overheat and damage it. That could be a separate issue and not part of the diesel problem. You will be pretty enlightened in the basics of maintenance by the time you finish the search and you will be fairly informed when and if you do need a mechanic.. Paper towels and hand cleaner should be staples in your cupboard. Once you get the oil out of the bilge if it's there, you can use rags and a cleaner to finish wiping up. Then check the impeller on the bilge pump for crud. This oughta keep you busy for an afternoon. Helen

I chased after a diesel smell for two years. The boat came with some sound proofing material attached to the top of my steel tank. Nothing ever leaked into the bilge. Just fumes in the boat. It turned out that the stuff absorbed water, rusted the top of the tank. I found 4 pin holes. In Linda's case I would be looking into a engine issue. Is the oil level over full? Maybe fuel in the oil. This will cause low oil pressure and fumes. Chuck From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 4:52:45 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] (Linda) diesel/smell/tanks There are several problems with fuel tanks, one is that just as in a car, if you keep them full, they are less likely to create condensation which turns into water in your tank, thereby permitting developing rust and also contaminating your fuel(a bigger problem than usual because keeping your tank full is expensive these days), and diesel itself needs to be treated with biocide especially if it is sitting because it gets "bugs" in it that cause bad fuel and also bad smell. (I'm assuming the tank is steel.) They will also rust on the outside if exposed to moisture, we had one rust on the bottom corner due to minute amounts of water under it. If they are aluminum, they won't rust (can deteriorate in presence of salty water) but some of the gasket/seam material used between the fill tubes and feed line fittings attached to the tank can break down. I would check all fuel lines, fill pipe, fuel feed, air vent which usually runs from the tank to a remote spot, and fuel return as suggested.Does it smell like normal diesel or bad at the vent? Fuel lines can get brittle over the years. Metal lines can be bent and crimped and can break if pulled on so be careful. (any chance there's a rodent on the boat that may have chewed on something?)Get a bright flashlight or two and an old pillow for comfort.. Also the gasket on your filter could be torn so check the seam where it screws together. Then put a white bilgesorb cloth (about a dollar at WM) under your tank and engine so if it has a leak you can see it. This whole inspection process won't take a whole day. If you find the tank leaking, you may need a new one because it is probably bad in more than one place. The tank will need to be drained to replace it. At this point, I would let the yard replace it. If your fuel isn't dirty, you will probably be able to give it away or you can recycle it if it is. If your tank is under the cockpit floor like in a 29, it can be rusting on top also from condensation. If you do have diesel in the bilge, buy a few or 10 of the white bilgesorb pads and put them under your tank and in the engine pan or anywhere you find fuel. you can always use them to catch any drips at the fill up. You can also cut them into smaller pieces to test for the fuel leaks. Don't use any Dawn or Joy to break it up because that not only is bad to pump overboard, it also makes the bilgesorb cloths actually dump the oil back into the bilge. You then take them in a plastic bag or a bucket like home depot sells to the oil recyclers. If you use gloves you can try to reuse and wring them out into a bucket. Keep a fan going from outside the cabin so you don't get sick from the diesel. That other issue, the beeping going on after running for awhile, have you checked the dipstick for your oil lately?(you should check it every time you go out) some engines actually shut off if the sensor indicates low oil to save the engine which could overheat and damage it. That could be a separate issue and not part of the diesel problem. You will be pretty enlightened in the basics of maintenance by the time you finish the search and you will be fairly informed when and if you do need a mechanic.. Paper towels and hand cleaner should be staples in your cupboard. Once you get the oil out of the bilge if it's there, you can use rags and a cleaner to finish wiping up. Then check the impeller on the bilge pump for crud. This oughta keep you busy for an afternoon. Helen

Helen Horn wrote: > > There are several problems with fuel tanks, one is that just as in a > car, if you keep them full, they are less likely to create > condensation which turns into water in your tank, thereby permitting > developing rust and also contaminating your fuel Just a reminder that this is also an issue these days for gas engines. Gasoline with alcohol added is evil stuff, especially in boats. Sailing folk tend not to use a lot of gas so it sits in the tank, the alcohol absorbs moisture, and the water settles out in the bottom. I left some old gas in the steel portable gas tank for a little Evinrude 3 hp outboard (dumb move). The water pulled in by the alcohol caused the fuel pickup tube to rust and develop a pinhole leak. The outboard began sucking more air than gas, leading to this little dance all the way home: pump, pull starter rope, run, stall; pump, pull starter rope, run, stall; etc. all the way home. No fun. The marina where my other boat lives sells pure gasoline (no alcohol) but the price is such as to make me glad I'm a sailor. Chris Campbell

Running an A-4 as well as vehicle in the winter in the Chesapeake I can attest to the problems with ethanol additives. I'm convinced that smaller towns get crappier fuel supply and probably don't clean the holding tanks as often. When I worked as a kid pumping gas we all knew not to fill our cars for at least three days after the fill truck left. Now add ethanol to the list of additives. Currently the regulation is E10 that is 10 percent ethanol but the administration in the States is actively pushing E15 that is 15 percent ethanol according to a mailing I got from BoatUS. They are actively trying to get this proposal reversed if not slowed down. Given that I drive a Canadian GMC Safari V6 which is setup for Canadian fuels, which are different then US in terms of alcohol content, she sputtered and sputtered in Rock Hall and cost me a small fortune to keep running and repaired. The A-4 did not suffer so bad. I added both ethanol stabilizer and the recommended amount of Marvel Mystery Fluid. Great stuff in the oil and the tank. Swear by it. (did not work on the Van) Changed all the filters when I was good to go and always kept the tank filled up. As a matter or practice I would run the engine for 20 minutes in the morning and evenings to ensure that there was new gas in the lines, filters, carburetor, and in the head. I swear that the A-4 could run on RUM if it came to that. Love that engine. Low compression, small stroke big bore. The one thing I would add to this engine is water cooling system and run typical coolant as opposed to freshwater cooling. Should make this little engine that could last a long time longer...:) We are now at what 2010-1978, gee that 32 years on one engine and still going strong. The main reason for the enthusiasm of the A-4 is that for the record, Moyer check into this, very rarely has there been a recorded incident with A-4 that led to a fire. Secondly, parts are very inexpensive. Seems the only thing that can go seriously wrong with this engine is a contaminated fuel supply with alcohol. As far as smell its never been an issue and the start sequence is dead simple with a manual backup as well. The tank is plastic so there are few issues with that. The water pump is a bugger to replace and you should keep a very critical eye on that as well as get the extender lower bolt. Do the upgrades as recommended by moyer and change the oil as needed (in a cruising scenario this is not every 50 hrs as the manual suggests) Invest in the Moyer Manual, join the list, and your are good to go. Now if only the van ran as well on crap gas I'd be a really happy camper. There the solutions was expensive. New battery, new alternator, new cap, rotor, points/condensor, plugs and wires and sepentine belt. Gee, that cost me more then I paid for the CAL-20..:) The car was fully tuned when I left. Now I buy my fuel in either Dover or Chestertown when in the region. /ch

Flatheads forever! My Best, Mike From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 10:57:36 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] (Linda) diesel/smell/tanks Running an A-4 as well as vehicle in the winter in the Chesapeake I can attest to the problems with ethanol additives. I'm convinced that smaller towns get crappier fuel supply and probably don't clean the holding tanks as often. When I worked as a kid pumping gas we all knew not to fill our cars for at least three days after the fill truck left. Now add ethanol to the list of additives. Currently the regulation is E10 that is 10 percent ethanol but the administration in the States is actively pushing E15 that is 15 percent ethanol according to a mailing I got from BoatUS. They are actively trying to get this proposal reversed if not slowed down. Given that I drive a Canadian GMC Safari V6 which is setup for Canadian fuels, which are different then US in terms of alcohol content, she sputtered and sputtered in Rock Hall and cost me a small fortune to keep running and repaired. The A-4 did not suffer so bad. I added both ethanol stabilizer and the recommended amount of Marvel Mystery Fluid. Great stuff in the oil and the tank. Swear by it. (did not work on the Van) Changed all the filters when I was good to go and always kept the tank filled up. As a matter or practice I would run the engine for 20 minutes in the morning and evenings to ensure that there was new gas in the lines, filters, carburetor, and in the head. I swear that the A-4 could run on RUM if it came to that. Love that engine. Low compression, small stroke big bore. The one thing I would add to this engine is water cooling system and run typical coolant as opposed to freshwater cooling. Should make this little engine that could last a long time longer...:) We are now at what 2010-1978, gee that 32 years on one engine and still going strong. The main reason for the enthusiasm of the A-4 is that for the record, Moyer check into this, very rarely has there been a recorded incident with A-4 that led to a fire. Secondly, parts are very inexpensive. Seems the only thing that can go seriously wrong with this engine is a contaminated fuel supply with alcohol. As far as smell its never been an issue and the start sequence is dead simple with a manual backup as well. The tank is plastic so there are few issues with that. The water pump is a bugger to replace and you should keep a very critical eye on that as well as get the extender lower bolt. Do the upgrades as recommended by moyer and change the oil as needed (in a cruising scenario this is not every 50 hrs as the manual suggests) Invest in the Moyer Manual, join the list, and your are good to go. Now if only the van ran as well on crap gas I'd be a really happy camper. There the solutions was expensive. New battery, new alternator, new cap, rotor, points/condensor, plugs and wires and sepentine belt. Gee, that cost me more then I paid for the CAL-20..:) The car was fully tuned when I left. Now I buy my fuel in either Dover or Chestertown when in the region. /ch

Beware the water pump Mike ...she comes with demons and sirens...:) Treat her with respect, check oil levels nightly and prior to start. Include it in your start up procedure that you document and follow religious and she will reward you. As the former PO and boat buddy would say, "don't ask me how I know"...:) With respect to Chris C's posts...there is a level of understanding there and sensitivity to what is real that is enjoyable to read. Line of the month...."you need role models especially as an adult.." Always read his posts. /ch

You have it correctly Mike. Old Flat Heads forever. I only have three rebuildable blocks, then I will sell all of the good used parts I have, like 7 oil pans, 6 crankshafts, etc. Let me know what you A4natics want. Cal boats are first. Tom Vandiver, Cal Cruising 46 "Satori" ol… [at] bshmarine.com From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 6:17:05 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] (Linda) diesel/smell/tanks Flatheads forever! My Best, Mike From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 10:57:36 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] (Linda) diesel/smell/tanks Running an A-4 as well as vehicle in the winter in the Chesapeake I can attest to the problems with ethanol additives. I'm convinced that smaller towns get crappier fuel supply and probably don't clean the holding tanks as often. When I worked as a kid pumping gas we all knew not to fill our cars for at least three days after the fill truck left. Now add ethanol to the list of additives. Currently the regulation is E10 that is 10 percent ethanol but the administration in the States is actively pushing E15 that is 15 percent ethanol according to a mailing I got from BoatUS. They are actively trying to get this proposal reversed if not slowed down. Given that I drive a Canadian GMC Safari V6 which is setup for Canadian fuels, which are different then US in terms of alcohol content, she sputtered and sputtered in Rock Hall and cost me a small fortune to keep running and repaired. The A-4 did not suffer so bad. I added both ethanol stabilizer and the recommended amount of Marvel Mystery Fluid. Great stuff in the oil and the tank. Swear by it. (did not work on the Van) Changed all the filters when I was good to go and always kept the tank filled up. As a matter or practice I would run the engine for 20 minutes in the morning and evenings to ensure that there was new gas in the lines, filters, carburetor, and in the head. I swear that the A-4 could run on RUM if it came to that. Love that engine. Low compression, small stroke big bore. The one thing I would add to this engine is water cooling system and run typical coolant as opposed to freshwater cooling. Should make this little engine that could last a long time longer...:) We are now at what 2010-1978, gee that 32 years on one engine and still going strong. The main reason for the enthusiasm of the A-4 is that for the record, Moyer check into this, very rarely has there been a recorded incident with A-4 that led to a fire. Secondly, parts are very inexpensive. Seems the only thing that can go seriously wrong with this engine is a contaminated fuel supply with alcohol. As far as smell its never been an issue and the start sequence is dead simple with a manual backup as well. The tank is plastic so there are few issues with that. The water pump is a bugger to replace and you should keep a very critical eye on that as well as get the extender lower bolt. Do the upgrades as recommended by moyer and change the oil as needed (in a cruising scenario this is not every 50 hrs as the manual suggests) Invest in the Moyer Manual, join the list, and your are good to go. Now if only the van ran as well on crap gas I'd be a really happy camper. There the solutions was expensive. New battery, new alternator, new cap, rotor, points/condensor, plugs and wires and sepentine belt. Gee, that cost me more then I paid for the CAL-20..:) The car was fully tuned when I left. Now I buy my fuel in either Dover or Chestertown when in the region. /ch