CAL 20 pointing ability

Greets: A simple question. One of the few issues with the 20 is its ability to point. Other then removing the forward stays, and putting tracks on the deck at an angle as most racers do, are there any other tricks to help this boat point better and consistently. Best regards -- /ch

chris123 wrote: > > > Greets: > > A simple question. One of the few issues with the 20 is its ability to > point. Other then removing the forward stays, and putting tracks on > the deck at an angle as most racers do, are there any other tricks to > help this boat point better and consistently. > Good question. I'll sit back and wait for an answer. On my boat, previous owner had moved the forward lower shrouds inboard, but the upper shrouds still limit the sheeting angle. Last night I was pinching up with main & genoa sheeted in tight, and I was out-pointing and passing the local tourist schooner, but the local racers outpoint me by quite a bit in their bigger boats with better sails. Chris Campbell > >

not specifically for the 20. I often find other boats appear to be pointing much higher than I, particularly in light wind. I also find if I ease off just a hair and c oncentrate on boat speed rather than pointing ability, I beat them. Many times pointing translates into pinching and slower. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cl… [at] charterinternet.com Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:28:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 20 pointing ability chris123 wrote: Greets: A simple question. One of the few issues with the 20 is its ability to point. Other then removing the forward stays, and putting tracks on the deck at an angle as most racers do, are there any other tricks to help this boat point better and consistently. Good question. I'll sit back and wait for an answer. On my boat, previous owner had moved the forward lower shrouds inboard, but the upper shrouds still limit the sheeting angle. Last night I was pinching up with main & genoa sheeted in tight, and I was out-pointing and passing the local tourist schooner, but the local racers outpoint me by quite a bit in their bigger boats with better sails. Chris Campbell

Reggie's response is good. Was more concerned with hardware and rig configuration at this point. Here's a rather long video of a CAL-20 taking on something during a wed race night. The first part is interesting as it shows clearly the sheet configuration and associated deck hardware. This is a common setup for those who race, and about all I have heard of in terms of hardware setup. Once the CAL moves to port, there are no further shots of her. You may want to turn the volume down a bit first...:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMLzQwpGeNM&feature=related /ch

Nice shot of the Cal 20's layout -- that never should have been filmed! Had I been her skipper, I would have tacked away when at the Lady Hawke's bow. They are no where near the lay line from the forward looking video and taking their stern and wind shadow really slowed them down. Clear air above that boat would have overcome the loss of time from a tack! Lady Hawke is also losing out by not playing their main. His pinches in the puffs are way too severe and he loses a lot of boat speed. A much smaller pinch with a loosening of the main and then trimming the main back in as the pinch is held would have been much faster. Didn't see them trim the main once..... Looks like a "fun" group rather than a "serious" race! Cal 20 pics are nice, though, and the venue sure looks sweet with that azure water! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 7:29:58 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 20 pointing ability Reggie's response is good. Was more concerned with hardware and rig configuration at this point. Here's a rather long video of a CAL-20 taking on something during a wed race night. The first part is interesting as it shows clearly the sheet configuration and associated deck hardware. This is a common setup for those who race, and about all I have heard of in terms of hardware setup. Once the CAL moves to port, there are no further shots of her. You may want to turn the volume down a bit first...:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMLzQwpGeNM&feature=related /ch

chris123 wrote: > > > Reggie's response is good. Was more concerned with hardware and rig > configuration at this point. Here's a rather long video of a CAL-20 > taking on something during a wed race night. The first part is > interesting as it shows clearly the sheet configuration and associated > deck hardware. This is a common setup for those who race, and about > all I have heard of in terms of hardware setup. Once the CAL moves to > port, there are no further shots of her. > > You may want to turn the volume down a bit first...:) > I turned the volume down but then turned it back up. Don't listen to much rock these days but liked that---/does anybody know what it is?/ And now I've seen sheeting inside the shrouds. I've got a fairlead installed by the p.o. on my boat that would lead the jib sheets inside but have never tried it, mostly because it would be too much work to re-reeve the sheets outside for off-the-wind work, especially single-handed. Maybe I'll try it. Still wouldn't work for my genoa, I don't think, because it has to be sheeted way aft (high clew). But again, maybe I can run the sheets inside the shrouds to the same turning block...unless the leech hits the spreader. Chris Campbell > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMLzQwpGeNM&feature=related > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMLzQwpGeNM&feature=related> > > /ch > >

could the fairleads be for twings or barber hauls? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cl… [at] charterinternet.com Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:20:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 20 pointing ability chris123 wrote: Reggie's response is good. Was more concerned with hardware and rig configuration at this point. Here's a rather long video of a CAL-20 taking on something during a wed race night. The first part is interesting as it shows clearly the sheet configuration and associated deck hardware. This is a common setup for those who race, and about all I have heard of in terms of hardware setup. Once the CAL moves to port, there are no further shots of her. You may want to turn the volume down a bit first...:) I turned the volume down but then turned it back up. Don't listen to much rock these days but liked that---does anybody know what it is? And now I've seen sheeting inside the shrouds. I've got a fairlead installed by the p.o. on my boat that would lead the jib sheets inside but have never tried it, mostly because it would be too much work to re-reeve the sheets outside for off-the-wind work, especially single-handed. Maybe I'll try it. Still wouldn't work for my genoa, I don't think, because it has to be sheeted way aft (high clew). But again, maybe I can run the sheets inside the shrouds to the same turning block...unless the leech hits the spreader. Chris Campbell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMLzQwpGeNM&feature=related /ch

r good wrote: > > > could the fairleads be for twings or barber hauls? > Don't think so...the sheet would be bearing too hard against the leeward shroud if you used them for that purpose. At first I thought they had more to do with the spinnaker gear and turning blocks for that at the mast step, especially because there are some small cam and clam cleats downstream of the fairleads. But lately I've been wondering if they were for inboard sheeting and have just been too lazy to find out. I had been planning on getting some work done at home this evening instead of sailing. The weather forecast was for rain. It's nice to have an occasional excuse not to go sailing, so those necessary chores can get done. But when the weather is nice, I just can't not go sailing. There will be ample time in October and November, not to mention March & April, for not going sailing. Now, when the weather is tolerable, I sail at every opportunity. Someday I'll be old & decrepit and then I can worry about a nice lawn or an orderly house or a properly balanced checkbook. My niece is living on Lake Tahoe and just saw the famous mahogany commuter boat /Thunderbird, /and she was astonished to learn that it had been built in Bay City, MI where her father and I grew up and where my other boat lies. So I sent her a long e-mail about the builder (Ben Huskins) and designer (John Hacker) and the Gougeon Brothers who bought the builder's shop and then I veered off into designs of the '30s and 1938 Buicks, and Dorothea Lange and her FSA photos, and my great hero, FDR, and on and on. Suddenly it occurred to me how much people miss when they sit at home and balance their checkbooks and worry about their lawns instead of going sailing or doing other interesting things out in this fascinating world we live in. And so since the forecast is not for a "slight chance of rain," and since there seems to be a nice breeze from the north, it's likely that I'll ride the bike down to the dinghy and go sailing after all. Maybe I'll try that inboard sheeting option and see how the boat behaves. Just don't complain about my messy house. Chris Campbell privileged to live in this wonderful place and to sail the Cal 20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the Columbia river fleet 43 the Cal 20 shrouds are very sloppy - so loose that the mast can pivot 3'0"- 5'0" at the mast tip, that way you can crank against the lee shrouds, and get a better angle upwind, use a barber hauler, we also play the backstay a lot so downwind the mast really stands tall. We race level fleet with spinnakers. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:54 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 20 pointing ability r good wrote: could the fairleads be for twings or barber hauls? Don't think so...the sheet would be bearing too hard against the leeward shroud if you used them for that purpose. At first I thought they had more to do with the spinnaker gear and turning blocks for that at the mast step, especially because there are some small cam and clam cleats downstream of the fairleads. But lately I've been wondering if they were for inboard sheeting and have just been too lazy to find out. I had been planning on getting some work done at home this evening instead of sailing. The weather forecast was for rain. It's nice to have an occasional excuse not to go sailing, so those necessary chores can get done. But when the weather is nice, I just can't not go sailing. There will be ample time in October and November, not to mention March & April, for not going sailing. Now, when the weather is tolerable, I sail at every opportunity. Someday I'll be old & decrepit and then I can worry about a nice lawn or an orderly house or a properly balanced checkbook. My niece is living on Lake Tahoe and just saw the famous mahogany commuter boat Thunderbird, and she was astonished to learn that it had been built in Bay City, MI where her father and I grew up and where my other boat lies. So I sent her a long e-mail about the builder (Ben Huskins) and designer (John Hacker) and the Gougeon Brothers who bought the builder's shop and then I veered off into designs of the '30s and 1938 Buicks, and Dorothea Lange and her FSA photos, and my great hero, FDR, and on and on. Suddenly it occurred to me how much people miss when they sit at home and balance their checkbooks and worry about their lawns instead of going sailing or doing other interesting things out in this fascinating world we live in. And so since the forecast is not for a "slight chance of rain," and since there seems to be a nice breeze from the north, it's likely that I'll ride the bike down to the dinghy and go sailing after all. Maybe I'll try that inboard sheeting option and see how the boat behaves. Just don't complain about my messy house. Chris Campbell privileged to live in this wonderful place and to sail the Cal 20

ti… [at] ch2m.com wrote: > > > On the Columbia river fleet 43 the Cal 20 shrouds are very sloppy - > so loose that the mast can pivot 3'0"- 5'0" at the mast tip, that way > you can crank against the lee shrouds, and get a better angle upwind, > use a barber hauler, we also play the backstay a lot so downwind the > mast really stands tall. We race level fleet with spinnakers. > These are all arguments against sailing single-handed, aren't they? But then you have to buy beer for the crew who do all that adjusting. Chris Campbell > > >

I don't think so. I sail with 2 crews. One crew is novices, they need constant input, yet however they Fu-- up at every chance that beholds them.. The other crew is solid his driving is different than my style. We have finished first or second in every race we have entered, Not beer can Bullsh--. the real thing YRA- PHRF and we are leading our division. perhaps I should take up golf. In the garage there is a golf gab, golf shoes and lotsa balls. My Best, Mike From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 1:18:31 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 20 pointing ability - loose shrouds ti… [at] ch2m.com wrote: >On the Columbia river fleet 43 the Cal 20 shrouds are very sloppy - so loose >that the mast can pivot 3’0”- 5’0” at the mast tip, that way you can crank >against the lee shrouds, and get a better angle upwind, use a barber hauler, we >also play the backstay a lot so downwind the mast really stands tall. We race >level fleet with spinnakers. These are all arguments against sailing single-handed, aren't they? But then you have to buy beer for the crew who do all that adjusting. Chris Campbell

YES! From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: CAL <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 5:30:29 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 20 pointing ability Greets: A simple question. One of the few issues with the 20 is its ability to point. Other then removing the forward stays, and putting tracks on the deck at an angle as most racers do, are there any other tricks to help this boat point better and consistently. Best regards -- /ch ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yeah , WHAT EVER Mike , you've NEVER been closer than 10 min , behind our leading Cal20 in the YRA events and in one event it was twenty minutes... do the math ,,, you don't go so fast in your cal ! -Paul

But Paul we sail the DH division you don't. We had different starts in the Vallejo race.. Same start in the Bonita race you did not finish and on Sunday we took Alcatraz to Port, while you and Richard went to Stb, tactically better. Sorry if your feelings got hurt by something you believe I said. Will you sail the Yankee Cup with Richard on Whoops? My Best, Mike From: "su… [at] sbcglobal.net" <su… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 8:34:15 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: CAL 20 pointing ability - loose shrouds Yeah , WHAT EVER Mike , you've NEVER been closer than 10 min , behind our leading Cal20 in the YRA events and in one event it was twenty minutes... do the math ,,, you don't go so fast in your cal ! -Paul ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I sail with no forward lowers. I use an in hauler(Barber). On a reach I let the hauler out until the sheet is nearly in contact with the shroud. I have sailed with "Reaching sheets" when we don't anticipate the use of an A shoot or an S shoot. These are another set of sheets led outside and snapped in to the jib clew when reaching. Cal 20's get bad marks for pointing but this can be overcome by sail set,trim and use of controlls to shift gears. Trimmed well we can point as well as most other boats we race against. Some boats with Carbon sails have better windward ability by a degree or 2 but as yet $3300 for a "Fiberpath" jib and main from Dave Ullman is not really called for. New sails would be nice but with 2 kids in college now is not the time. My Best, Mike From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 12:20:53 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 20 pointing ability chris123 wrote: >Reggie's response is good. Was more concerned with hardware and rig >configuration at this point. Here's a rather long video of a CAL-20 taking on >something during a wed race night. The first part is interesting as it shows >clearly the sheet configuration and associated deck hardware. This is a common >setup for those who race, and about all I have heard of in terms of hardware >setup. Once the CAL moves to port, there are no further shots of her. > > >You may want to turn the volume down a bit first...:) > I turned the volume down but then turned it back up. Don't listen to much rock these days but liked that---does anybody know what it is? And now I've seen sheeting inside the shrouds. I've got a fairlead installed by the p.o. on my boat that would lead the jib sheets inside but have never tried it, mostly because it would be too much work to re-reeve the sheets outside for off-the-wind work, especially single-handed. Maybe I'll try it. Still wouldn't work for my genoa, I don't think, because it has to be sheeted way aft (high clew). But again, maybe I can run the sheets inside the shrouds to the same turning block...unless the leech hits the spreader. Chris Campbell >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMLzQwpGeNM&feature=related > >/ch >

Mike , Divisions don't really matter , In the YRA PC everybody sails the same course , so its all about the corrected times , that is what i was referancing earlier , and those are the comparisons between our two Cal20's racing the same course in four races so far this year. Just two more to go ! And there's a party ! :)

This is a complicated question with no simple one answer. For example I spent $5000 for 3 sails for my Santa Cruz 27 in 1991 to do the Nationals which was the NOOD at Stfyc. I was the only boat without inside tracks, up against the house. If memory serves the inside tracks were about 10 inches inside the Bill Lee tracks. I could not point with the others despite my kevlar#3 It was 20+ windy. If I overtrimmed the sail I could equal the point but the boat slowed. I added tracks. Phyllis Swift #103 finished near DFL. A learning experience. In the mid 1970's we used Inhaulers to twist off the top of the jib and to bring in the sheeting angle. I use inhaulers (barberhaulers called by some) I can point with anyone. I sail to weather with Cal 29's Corronado 30's Ranger 23's International folk boats and almost CS 32's Waves are really no serious problem as I play the main and reef in over 22k true My inhauler brings the lead in to about 8 inches from the companionway edge in almost all combinations of wind and sea The Jib lead goes to the hauler block and then to the jib block on the car at the factory position. I use the jib winches to load the halliard and I am careful to keep jib depth of chord to about 35% -40% back of luff in the jib. Performance may not be the goal of many sailors who enjoy the grace and sprightleness of a Cal 20. If that is not the case and you choose to sail at 80%+ of the envelope then some basic changes need to be made. I was fortunate in my beginning sailing career to sail with masters who showed me things I read about in books but had difficulty putting into practice.. Teaching sailing and piloting and celestial have given me some insight what others expect. My Best, Mike From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 6:28:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 20 pointing ability chris123 wrote: >Greets: > >A simple question. One of the few issues with the 20 is its ability to >point. Other then removing the forward stays, and putting tracks on >the deck at an angle as most racers do, are there any other tricks to >help this boat point better and consistently. > Good question. I'll sit back and wait for an answer. On my boat, previous owner had moved the forward lower shrouds inboard, but the upper shrouds still limit the sheeting angle. Last night I was pinching up with main & genoa sheeted in tight, and I was out-pointing and passing the local tourist schooner, but the local racers outpoint me by quite a bit in their bigger boats with better sails. Chris Campbell >