Lifejacket

Paul- If your son loves the boat, take a babysitter with you next time. Explain to him that if he makes a fuss over the lifejacket he and the baby sitter will stay ashore. If he starts out ok and then makes a stink about the lifejacket, put him ashore with the baby sitter and go out without him, whether he settles down or not after he raises a stink. Explain to him that if it happens again he will stay home with the babysitter next time. Just a thought. Read

And you risk having a child who will never go out with you. You have to make it fun for him to go out or you will turn him off to sailing for life. An alternative is to explain that you cannot leave the dock until he puts on the life jacket and just have a day at the dock if he won't. The best plan would be to take your son and a friend of his that likes wearing life jackets. Of course, if your state allows harnesses, try that. Allen On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Read Howarth <rs… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Paul- > > If your son loves the boat, take a babysitter with you next time. Explain > to him that if he makes a fuss over the lifejacket he and the baby sitter > will stay ashore. If he starts out ok and then makes a stink about the > lifejacket, put him ashore with the baby sitter and go out without him, > whether he settles down or not after he raises a stink. > Explain to him that if it happens again he will stay home with the > babysitter next time. > > Just a thought. > > > Read > > > >

All, This is why life jackets are important! Look closely at the photo. PFDs are NOT just for sailors and children... http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-capt-tom-henry-dies-20100906,0,4334629.story --Michael--

Same photo... screen captured. From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 9:00:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket All, This is why life jackets are important! Look closely at the photo. PFDs are NOT just for sailors and children... http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-capt-tom-henry-dies-20100906,0,4334629.story --Michael--

Micahel, I looked closely at the photo. I noticed the boat had neither a mast, a boom, or a sail...it must be a...STINK POT??. I'm sorry, is there something I'm just not getting? I did see a diving tower, though. Did he do a backwards one and a half somersault with half twist in pike position, and louse up his entry? Did he hit the fan tail of the boat instead of the water? The article doesn't have any details other than saying he died of injuries. May he rest in peace. I'm still not wearing a PFD. Would the PFD have saved his butt if he was flipped off the diving tower and landed on his head? Maybe what he needed was a crash helmet? Jerry (not necessarily recommending anyone follow my example) --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 6:00 AM All, This is why life jackets are important! Look closely at the photo. PFDs are NOT just for sailors and children... http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-capt-tom-henry-dies-20100906,0,4334629.story --Michael--

Jerry, In the second post with the photo attached, you can see him falling. :( I'm not saying that a PFD would have saved his life. It may turn out that he stroked out and fell from the tuna tower. I rarely wear a PFD. Exceptions include single-handing, rough seas, crossing the Gulf Stream at night, and open ocean racing. --Michael-- From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:32:10 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket(Michael) Micahel, I looked closely at the photo. I noticed the boat had neither a mast, a boom, or a sail...it must be a...STINK POT??. I'm sorry, is there something I'm just not getting? I did see a diving tower, though. Did he do a backwards one and a half somersault with half twist in pike position, and louse up his entry? Did he hit the fan tail of the boat instead of the water? The article doesn't have any details other than saying he died of injuries. May he rest in peace. I'm still not wearing a PFD. Would the PFD have saved his butt if he was flipped off the diving tower and landed on his head? Maybe what he needed was a crash helmet? Jerry (not necessarily recommending anyone follow my example) --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 6:00 AM > > > >All, > >This is why life jackets are important! Look closely at the photo. PFDs are >NOT just for sailors and children... > >http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-capt-tom-henry-dies-20100906,0,4334629.story > > >--Michael-- > >

there is an amazing view of someone falling off the flybridge on the port side, about level with the deck of the flybridge. maybe a lifejacket would have snagged some of the junk sticking up here or there. What a photo! Helen. Maybe he banged his head, you know he had to be hurt somehow. But a lifejacket would have kept him afloat, maybe he could have made it to the hospital. From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:32:10 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket(Michael) Micahel, I looked closely at the photo. I noticed the boat had neither a mast, a boom, or a sail...it must be a...STINK POT??. I'm sorry, is there something I'm just not getting? I did see a diving tower, though. Did he do a backwards one and a half somersault with half twist in pike position, and louse up his entry? Did he hit the fan tail of the boat instead of the water? The article doesn't have any details other than saying he died of injuries. May he rest in peace. I'm still not wearing a PFD. Would the PFD have saved his butt if he was flipped off the diving tower and landed on his head? Maybe what he needed was a crash helmet? Jerry (not necessarily recommending anyone follow my example) --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 6:00 AM > > > >All, > >This is why life jackets are important! Look closely at the photo. PFDs are >NOT just for sailors and children... > >http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-capt-tom-henry-dies-20100906,0,4334629.story > > >--Michael-- > >

On 9/9/2010 2:32 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > I'm still not wearing a PFD. Would the PFD have saved his butt if he > was flipped off the diving tower and landed on his head? Maybe what he > needed was a crash helmet? > My practice is to wear a PFD in the spring, when our water is very cold, and any time things are exciting out there. On the Cal 20, I'm in the cockpit most of the time, and my boat has the cockpit hand rails that racers hate and I love. On our schooner, which has suffered a proliferation of rules, we must wear PFDs at night on deck or when the captain orders. I think the new rules require harnesses, clipped on, at all times at night too. On a 55' LOD vessel with 20" bulwarks, that seems like a bit of overkill when conditions are mild, but we do have some agility-impaired crew. After two unanticipated trips across the handlebars of my bicycle, I came to recognize the great virtue of bike helmets. I wear mine religiously. Head trauma is a clearly foreseeable risk of riding bicycles, especially on a roadway shared with cars and trucks driven my morons. Chris Campbell > >

Michael, Matie, I guess I didn't look close enuff!! I right clicked the photo this time and left clicked something called "view photo" which I've never tried before. Wu Hu!!, I've learned a new trick!..ah, olde seadog that I am. I see the good captain falling head first, coming out of his dive [degree of difficulty, 2.8] half twist in pike position, headed for a nice vertical entry into the pool, er...uh..I mean, salty drink. Possibly, he hit the deck head first, or got chewed up by the props as the boat spun around. I wonder, should these big boats (especially a bit top heavy with that tower) have something bigger than the dinky little rudders that most of them have? Seems he looked like he was coming in with enough speed, but that might have been the following wave as, you're not supposed to be carrying that much speed in an inlet in deference to little boats, like, my family's rented 14' skiff. But I do remember the roller coaster ride we used to have coming in those inlets, and fighting the helm to keep the boat and it's ineffeciant flat bottom with rocker, from broaching. Nice think about an outboard, even a small one, in this case, a 5.5HP Envinrude twin; it gives you plenty of yaw authority compared to a little itty bitty rudder. I guess a seat belt like the Coasties use on their rescue boat would have been even a better idea! And yeah, I get the point about the value of a vest, even a little one. Maybe not a bad idea when running the inlet, anyway. Very sad for the family, the community, and yes, food for thought. Jerry --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket(Michael) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 11:32 AM Micahel, I looked closely at the photo. I noticed the boat had neither a mast, a boom, or a sail...it must be a...STINK POT??. I'm sorry, is there something I'm just not getting? I did see a diving tower, though. Did he do a backwards one and a half somersault with half twist in pike position, and louse up his entry? Did he hit the fan tail of the boat instead of the water? The article doesn't have any details other than saying he died of injuries. May he rest in peace. I'm still not wearing a PFD. Would the PFD have saved his butt if he was flipped off the diving tower and landed on his head? Maybe what he needed was a crash helmet? Jerry (not necessarily recommending anyone follow my example) --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 6:00 AM All, This is why life jackets are important! Look closely at the photo. PFDs are NOT just for sailors and children... http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-capt-tom-henry-dies-20100906,0,4334629.story --Michael--

The thing I noticed about stink pot setup in general while in Cape May far too long is that there is rarely a consideration given to tying oneself off. Neither on the raised bridge nor the flybridge as we call them at home are there any safety devices to secure the pilot in place. What would have saved this lad, may he rest in peace, is a simple harness and tether or any other means to secure him to the bridge. PFD's are good once you get into the water, the idea is not to get there...:) Hate to be gross but the picture is incredible. I tend to do things differently. In the cockpit the PFD is on, leave the salon for the cockpit the PFD goes on. So basically its on all the time other then below. If I go forward, Im tied off to a jack line. Knee's are getting week so its a safety issue. If the weather turns over 15 knots Im tied off in the cockpit when sailing with others, if I sail alone, Im tied off period. Just my own personal safety procedures.YMMV... Best Regards /ch

Jerry, I am with you on the PFD thing. I wear it when I think I need to. The same thing applies to bike helmets. I have ridden for many years, and don't need a club to tell me I HAVE to wear a helmet when I have already signed a waiver. My club memberships are shrinking. Regards, David Dobbs --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket(Michael) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 1:32 PM Micahel, I looked closely at the photo. I noticed the boat had neither a mast, a boom, or a sail...it must be a...STINK POT??. I'm sorry, is there something I'm just not getting? I did see a diving tower, though. Did he do a backwards one and a half somersault with half twist in pike position, and louse up his entry? Did he hit the fan tail of the boat instead of the water? The article doesn't have any details other than saying he died of injuries. May he rest in peace. I'm still not wearing a PFD. Would the PFD have saved his butt if he was flipped off the diving tower and landed on his head? Maybe what he needed was a crash helmet? Jerry (not necessarily recommending anyone follow my example) --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 6:00 AM All, This is why life jackets are important! Look closely at the photo. PFDs are NOT just for sailors and children... http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-capt-tom-henry-dies-20100906,0,4334629.story --Michael--

Additionally, it looks like he took a slam to the left and to the right at which point he had to have lost his grip on the wheel. As he was experienced, anytime you cross a bar you know it's dangerous. We had a commercial salmon boat years ago and when we hauled out in Tomales Bay south of Bodega Bay in Calif., only the skipper would make that crossing, it's a risk no matter when you go.It's pretty hairy getting into Fort Bragg harbor in Ca. also, and Morro Bay can be really wild. On that old fishing boat the wheel's in the house, with little room to get loose. Outside, the captain should have had a tether to the dash at the wheel to stay centered and on the boat as they can really get rolly (one reason I'm a sailor). They say experience is what causes you to do careless things, you pay less attention. You lose respect for the tablesaw and you can lose a finger or worse. On the boat, your crew may accept that you are the wise, experienced captain, and become comfortable in their actions, not realizing that your concept covers more than they can understand without your years of experience. In an emergency, or catastrophe, you might save yourself but you must remember that they may not do anything the way you would. So, to protect yourself and your crew, you should set the example that nobody is perfectly safe just because you are a trusted skipper, (of course without scaring your crew so much they never board your boat) and you wear your lifejacket or tether, especially when doing a risky maneuver, to set an example of safety procedures to follow on your vessel. As well, teaching your regular crew man overboard and rescue techniques and how to use a fire extinguisher should be a no-brainer. My jacket comes off in the cabin also, unless roughwater or night-sailing. We also have two offshore survival suits for offshore sailing. They are hard to put on, you have to practice. There are safety classes in Oregon where you learn to put these on even in the water. Remember too, that if you go overboard without your lifejacket and your crew could manage to save you if you were conscious, what good would all your experience be to them if you were out cold? Where would they go without you? As for that powerboat, imagine the sudden need for action for the 6 people left onboard who may not have seen him leave. Luckily, someone was capable of getting the boat out of the trouble the skipper put them into. May none of us ever experience the loss of a crewmember.....Helen (they say most auto accidents are usually within a mile of your home, the part you drive the most often) From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 3:04:48 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket (Jerry) The thing I noticed about stink pot setup in general while in Cape May far too long is that there is rarely a consideration given to tying oneself off. Neither on the raised bridge nor the flybridge as we call them at home are there any safety devices to secure the pilot in place. What would have saved this lad, may he rest in peace, is a simple harness and tether or any other means to secure him to the bridge. PFD's are good once you get into the water, the idea is not to get there...:) Hate to be gross but the picture is incredible. I tend to do things differently. In the cockpit the PFD is on, leave the salon for the cockpit the PFD goes on. So basically its on all the time other then below. If I go forward, Im tied off to a jack line. Knee's are getting week so its a safety issue. If the weather turns over 15 knots Im tied off in the cockpit when sailing with others, if I sail alone, Im tied off period. Just my own personal safety procedures.YMMV... Best Regards /ch

I have a friend that has an offshore fishing boat. For years he never thought about PFDs while fishing. Several years ago he was comming back in and hit a few rough waves while standing next to the main cabin. The boat dropped and the moved out from under him! The next bump put him back aboard. For a few stopped heartbeats, there was nothing between him and the deep blue sea! When he got back to the shore he bought several inflatables for him and his guest! He makes everyone wear one unless slow trolling or inside the inlets Tymll John From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 18:04:48 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket (Jerry) The thing I noticed about stink pot setup in general while in Cape May far too long is that there is rarely a consideration given to tying oneself off. Neither on the raised bridge nor the flybridge as we call them at home are there any safety devices to secure the pilot in place. What would have saved this lad, may he rest in peace, is a simple harness and tether or any other means to secure him to the bridge. PFD's are good once you get into the water, the idea is not to get there...:) Hate to be gross but the picture is incredible. I tend to do things differently. In the cockpit the PFD is on, leave the salon for the cockpit the PFD goes on. So basically its on all the time other then below. If I go forward, Im tied off to a jack line. Knee's are getting week so its a safety issue. If the weather turns over 15 knots Im tied off in the cockpit when sailing with others, if I sail alone, Im tied off period. Just my own personal safety procedures.YMMV... Best Regards /ch

Hey Chris, In a race I gybjed to avoid a std tacK boat , in dense fog on SF Bay,and I came up too far. As I watched as I went over board. O S----. my crew laughed as I was recovered. He asked when I asked " Will you please help me back on board" We went on to finish in 2nd place. WTF!!! My Best, mike From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 12:36:03 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket(Michael) On 9/9/2010 2:32 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > >I'm still not wearing a PFD. Would the PFD have saved his butt if he was flipped >off the diving tower and landed on his head? Maybe what he needed was a crash >helmet? > My practice is to wear a PFD in the spring, when our water is very cold, and any time things are exciting out there. On the Cal 20, I'm in the cockpit most of the time, and my boat has the cockpit hand rails that racers hate and I love. On our schooner, which has suffered a proliferation of rules, we must wear PFDs at night on deck or when the captain orders. I think the new rules require harnesses, clipped on, at all times at night too. On a 55' LOD vessel with 20" bulwarks, that seems like a bit of overkill when conditions are mild, but we do have some agility-impaired crew. After two unanticipated trips across the handlebars of my bicycle, I came to recognize the great virtue of bike helmets. I wear mine religiously. Head trauma is a clearly foreseeable risk of riding bicycles, especially on a roadway shared with cars and trucks driven my morons. Chris Campbell >

Chris, I raced on 3 Chicago-Mac races on an Erickson 35, and the boat rules were that if the watch captain told to to put on your pfd you did. After dark everyone was in a pfd and clipped on to the jackline if on deck. Sometimes it seemed like a pain, but the owner's priority was crew first, boat second, race third. That boat has finsished 1,2,or3 for the last 7 years in it's section, maybe some kind of a record. I always felt safe on board that boat, racing or not. Regards, David Dobbs, Cal29 411 --- On Thu, 9/9/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Lifejacket (Jerry) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 5:04 PM The thing I noticed about stink pot setup in general while in Cape May far too long is that there is rarely a consideration given to tying oneself off. Neither on the raised bridge nor the flybridge as we call them at home are there any safety devices to secure the pilot in place. What would have saved this lad, may he rest in peace, is a simple harness and tether or any other means to secure him to the bridge. PFD's are good once you get into the water, the idea is not to get there...:) Hate to be gross but the picture is incredible. I tend to do things differently. In the cockpit the PFD is on, leave the salon for the cockpit the PFD goes on. So basically its on all the time other then below. If I go forward, Im tied off to a jack line. Knee's are getting week so its a safety issue. If the weather turns over 15 knots Im tied off in the cockpit when sailing with others, if I sail alone, Im tied off period. Just my own personal safety procedures.YMMV... Best Regards /ch

HI David; That must have been a blast. That's a wicked race even for us who don't race. They are nice boats, very nice boats indeed. Hard to find good ones on the Great Lakes however. Fast and stable in a sea way and can be taken off shore if you are well seasoned. My friend owns one and single handed it to RIo Dulce from St. Catherine's ON. That's a lot of miles and she carried him safe and sound with no breakdowns. Mind you he spend 6 month preparing the boat for the voyage. Only issues so far are with the Y-3GM. Starter motor and engine mounts. All very expensive. (actually it was cheaper to take a flight to Miami then to get it fixed in Guatemala...courier costs are basically the cost of your boat) Biggest swells he encountered was the passage from Cuba to Mexico, Apparently the waves were higher then the mast and the other tricky spot was at the exit of the canal that scoots you around Cape Cod, Buzzard Bay Canal I think it is. When the winds and tides align you get standing waves at the exit that are very hard to power through. He waited till the next day as he could not make it. Good vessels. What I really like is the T cockpit arrangement and the depth of the non skid. Never seen anything that deep out of the factory. The only apparent week spot on the boat is the keel as its build in two halves and seemed together. An easy fix if it splits, and his did on the initial delivery trip doing battle with a rock in a channel. The rock won. We joke about it now, but not on the day that it happened. We were scared shit less taking on water but we made it safe and sound to the mooring getting really creative to salvage the vessel. Cant remember what his policy was wrt to PFD's. I always have mine on regardless of the size of boat. If she floats, the pfd is on. I just gotta find one that is actually comfortable as the Mustang one I have with integrated harness is not. Its too stiff, but you get used to it and after the second hr, you dont know its on. The E-35II is a very safe vessel that can take a lot of pounding. An admiral coastal cruiser that will get you home without a lot of fuss. Its numbers were the baseline for comparative boats hence I ended up with a 29......at the fraction of the cost of an E-35II and am well pleased with her. /ch On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:28 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Chris, > I raced on 3 Chicago-Mac races on an Erickson 35, and the boat rules were > that if the watch captain told to to put on your pfd you did. >

" the other tricky spot was at the exit of the canal that scoots you around Cape Cod, Buzzard Bay Canal I think it is. When the winds and tides align you get standing waves at the exit that are very hard to power through. He waited till the next day as he could not make it. " Chris, is that anywhere near the shallows that nearly ate the Mayflower and it's passengers, the Pilgrams, in 1620? They were being blown towards it by strong winds (their orginal destination was, after all, a land grant near New York Harbor/New Amsterdam, and were saved by a last minute change in wind direction. However, I think these dangerous shallows are further off shore and to the east. Jerry Sobel

I dont think so as I not familiar with the passage of the pilgrims boat. Been to Cape Cod many times however as a kid when it was still virgin and lay back. 1 month each summer for 50 bucks a week in a real saltbox cottage with a pump and outhouse. If we behaved all week we would hit the drive in on Sat night and the National Seacoast of Sat during the day. What wonderful times those were. 2 families in a station wagon...:) I digress. I took a tour once and plymouth rock and landing and its only the final landing of the pilgrims, if I remember correctly. I think they tried to land 3 or 4 times and did not like what they saw. The Canal runs from Sandwich to Buzzard Bay. I dont know the name of it. Locals know about the standing waves well and apparently it has something to do with the tides and specific wind direction. The day my friend went through 4 40+ footers, his travel mates, punched through them. He turned around and waited for better weather in the E-35II. The region in question I think is here from the description of his travels. http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.734301,-70.627499&spn=0.046372,0.110378&z=13 /ch On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > " the other tricky spot was at the exit of the canal that scoots you around > Cape Cod, Buzzard Bay Canal I think it is. When the winds and tides align > you get standing waves at the exit that are very hard to power through. He > waited till the next day as he could not make it. " > > Chris, is that anywhere near the shallows that nearly ate the Mayflower and > it's passengers, the Pilgrams, in 1620? They were being blown towards it by > strong winds (their orginal destination was, after all, a land grant near > New York Harbor/New Amsterdam, and were saved by a last minute change in > wind direction. However, I think these dangerous shallows are further off > shore and to the east. > Jerry Sobel > > > -- /ch