Halyard

Can someone talk me out of making a main halyard this way: Say it is 100 feet and 50 feet is aloft, 50 feet on winch. cleat, coiled. Made of 100 feet of 3/16 Amsteel covered with 50 feet of 3/8 Tenex. Tenex is a 12 strand single braid poly line. The result should product a line that is about 7/16 in diameter where you pull yet small and light aloft. Tenex is also cheap and strong but what I mainly am looking for is something that is thick so that I don't have something like a 5/16 warpspeed with the cover stripped for the aloft part. I don't yet know how to terminate the tenex at the mid section but I assume I will just taper and whip it. My question is, why is this a bad idea. It must be as nobody is doing it. The hypothetical 100 ft halyard would cost under $80 so it is also cheap. Compare that to about $250 for warpspeed of equivalent strength. Allen

Allen, sounds like a good idea to me. There are two types of Amsteel, one may have less creep than the other, I think it is the SK-75 stuff but I'm not sure. I use 1/8" Amsteel for my main halyard on my Cal24. I just wrap it on the winch, but it does connect to some 3/8" double braid polyester line. I don't remember how I did it, did I just tie a knot? I'll look next time I'm on my boat. The polyester is just to make it easy to get the line hoisted down till it wraps onto the winch. Then I have a large number of wraps on the winch, which holds then just fine. The winch doesn't have a crank, so I just cleat the polyester part and banjo it to get it tight. I think your way is lots better. Jerry --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Halyard To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 10:42 PM Can someone talk me out of making a main halyard this way: Say it is 100 feet and 50 feet is aloft, 50 feet on winch. cleat, coiled. Made of 100 feet of 3/16 Amsteel covered with 50 feet of 3/8 Tenex. Tenex is a 12 strand single braid poly line. The result should product a line that is about 7/16 in diameter where you pull yet small and light aloft. Tenex is also cheap and strong but what I mainly am looking for is something that is thick so that I don't have something like a 5/16 warpspeed with the cover stripped for the aloft part. I don't yet know how to terminate the tenex at the mid section but I assume I will just taper and whip it. My question is, why is this a bad idea. It must be as nobody is doing it. The hypothetical 100 ft halyard would cost under $80 so it is also cheap. Compare that to about $250 for warpspeed of equivalent strength. Allen

Allen, You are asking for advise but not providing all the information. What are you trying to save, money or weight aloft? If you are looking for less weight aloft, What is the weight of each of your choices? If you are looking for cost savings, I say go for it if the "hand feel" of the line is good. The newer tech braid are very rough on hands as opposed to some of the natural braids. Especially when wet. YMMV John From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:43 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Halyard Can someone talk me out of making a main halyard this way: Say it is 100 feet and 50 feet is aloft, 50 feet on winch. cleat, coiled. Made of 100 feet of 3/16 Amsteel covered with 50 feet of 3/8 Tenex. Tenex is a 12 strand single braid poly line. The result should product a line that is about 7/16 in diameter where you pull yet small and light aloft. Tenex is also cheap and strong but what I mainly am looking for is something that is thick so that I don't have something like a 5/16 warpspeed with the cover stripped for the aloft part. I don't yet know how to terminate the tenex at the mid section but I assume I will just taper and whip it. My question is, why is this a bad idea. It must be as nobody is doing it. The hypothetical 100 ft halyard would cost under $80 so it is also cheap. Compare that to about $250 for warpspeed of equivalent strength. Allen

Sorry, let me try and clarify what I am trying to do. I am trying to save weight aloft while having something that is easy on the hands while hoisting the sail. At the same time, I would like to do it without spending a lot of money. I have a wire halyard now and I want to cut the weight without giving up on the low stretch. I also have a sheave with a narrow (3/16) grove. I think the 3/16 Amsteel will fit the sheave and be the same strength and stretch as the existing 5/32 wire. It also looks like the right size, for what that is worth. So that part of the halyard is set. The question is what to do with the part that will not be aloft but rather over the winch, cleat, and coiled on deck. Normally what one would do if they wanted 3/16 aloft is buy 5/16 Warpspeed and strip back the cover on the part that goes aloft. A cheaper way to go is to strip a cover off some 5/16 XLS and cover the tail part of the Amsteel with it. But 5/16 is just too skinny for my liking so I am trying to figure out a non-standard yet good way to get a fatter tail part so it is easy on the hands. A note: my spinnaker halyard is 1/4 Amsteel with 7/16 LS cover over just the part that goes over the winch. That gives me some experience to know I want to do things differently with the main halyard. I want the cover to be over more of the line and 1/4 inch Amsteel is too thick. It might be acceptable to have 3/8 as the tail part and splice some 3/8 to the Amsteel, but nobody can tell me how to do that other than interlocked eye splices, which doesn't sound so nice. I was thinking about doing a core to core splice of the XLS core and Amsteel then a cover bury of the XLS cover into the Amstell but was told by Sampson that this doesn't work because of the differences in stretch. I am taking their word on that although I don't understand why that wouldn't work. Giving up on splicing Amsteel to double braid, I then though of is just stringing the Amsteel through some 3/8 XLS double braid without removing the inner braid. The net new thickness would be close to 7/16 which would be ideal. But that looks to be fairly difficult to do although I may still go that way. That is when I saw some Regatta braid at WM and wondered if something like that would work. I could easily string the Amsteel through the 12 strand single braid line. I looked at my my favorite marine store and found Tenex. Tenex is a 12 strand polyester line like Regatta braid but used mainly by arborist and hopefully a little tougher than Regatta braid. Since nobody has written up online that they do this, I then figured it must be a bad idea. But it sounds like such a good idea I thought I would get some opinions on it and started this thread. The one problem I do see is how to terminate the XLS where it stops mid line. In terms of cost, the 3/8 Tenex plus 3/16 Amsteel is cheaper than 7/16 XLS per foot so it is a cheap solution as well as light aloft. But will it work? Hope that clarifies things. Allen On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 6:17 AM, john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> wrote: > > > Allen, > > > > You are asking for advise but not providing all the information. What are > you trying to save, money or weight aloft? > > > > If you are looking for less weight aloft, What is the weight of each of > your choices? > > If you are looking for cost savings, I say go for it if the “hand feel” of > the line is good. > > > > The newer tech braid are very rough on hands as opposed to some of the > natural braids. Especially when wet. > > > > YMMV > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:43 AM > > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Halyard > > > > > > Can someone talk me out of making a main halyard this way: > > > > Say it is 100 feet and 50 feet is aloft, 50 feet on winch. cleat, coiled. > > > > Made of 100 feet of 3/16 Amsteel covered with 50 feet of 3/8 Tenex. Tenex > is a 12 strand single braid poly line. The result should product a line > that is about 7/16 in diameter where you pull yet small and light aloft. > Tenex is also cheap and strong but what I mainly am looking for is > something that is thick so that I don't have something like a 5/16 warpspeed > with the cover stripped for the aloft part. > > > > I don't yet know how to terminate the tenex at the mid section but I assume > I will just taper and whip it. My question is, why is this a bad idea. It > must be as nobody is doing it. > > > > The hypothetical 100 ft halyard would cost under $80 so it is also cheap. > Compare that to about $250 for warpspeed of equivalent strength. > > > > Allen > > > > >

Allen, Two considerations, you said you are using 1/4" amsteel for spinnaker halyard, so, would 1/4" Amsteel be better choice for Mains'l? I'm thinking about stretch vs. strength, the stuff is very strong. I'm thinking of going to 3/16" Amsteel for my genoa halyard on me little boat. Currently have something else...another hi tech line but it is little stretchy-er. However, the 1/8" stuff actually seems to be working ok on me mains'l! Also, one of the catalogue chandleries sells line cover material that you put over skinny lines. Is that what you are using? I think it is APS?? Annapolis something or other. I'll look when I gets a chance. I'm looking for a single braid for my genoa that is light. I'm thinking of polypropylene. Cost is a factor of course. Jerry Jerry --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Halyard To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 10:42 PM Can someone talk me out of making a main halyard this way: Say it is 100 feet and 50 feet is aloft, 50 feet on winch. cleat, coiled. Made of 100 feet of 3/16 Amsteel covered with 50 feet of 3/8 Tenex. Tenex is a 12 strand single braid poly line. The result should product a line that is about 7/16 in diameter where you pull yet small and light aloft. Tenex is also cheap and strong but what I mainly am looking for is something that is thick so that I don't have something like a 5/16 warpspeed with the cover stripped for the aloft part. I don't yet know how to terminate the tenex at the mid section but I assume I will just taper and whip it. My question is, why is this a bad idea. It must be as nobody is doing it. The hypothetical 100 ft halyard would cost under $80 so it is also cheap. Compare that to about $250 for warpspeed of equivalent strength. Allen

The 1/4 inch strikes me as way too thick. I don't know if I said it before, but I don't like my spinnaker halyard so don't want to duplicate it. The 3/16 Amsteel matches the 5/32 wire I have now in strength and stretch pretty close. That is part of how I picked it. Allen On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Allen, > Two considerations, you said you are using 1/4" amsteel for spinnaker > halyard, so, would 1/4" Amsteel be better choice for Mains'l? I'm thinking > about stretch vs. strength, the stuff is very strong. I'm thinking of going > to 3/16" Amsteel for my genoa halyard on me little boat. Currently have > something else...another hi tech line but it is little stretchy-er. However, > the 1/8" stuff actually seems to be working ok on me mains'l! > > Also, one of the catalogue chandleries sells line cover material that you > put over skinny lines. Is that what you are using? I think it is APS?? > Annapolis something or other. I'll look when I gets a chance. > > I'm looking for a single braid for my genoa that is light. I'm thinking of > polypropylene. Cost is a factor of course. > Jerry > > Jerry > > --- On *Fri, 10/1/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com>*wrote: > > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Halyard > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 10:42 PM > > > > Can someone talk me out of making a main halyard this way: > > Say it is 100 feet and 50 feet is aloft, 50 feet on winch. cleat, coiled. > > Made of 100 feet of 3/16 Amsteel covered with 50 feet of 3/8 Tenex. Tenex > is a 12 strand single braid poly line. The result should product a line > that is about 7/16 in diameter where you pull yet small and light aloft. > Tenex is also cheap and strong but what I mainly am looking for is > something that is thick so that I don't have something like a 5/16 warpspeed > with the cover stripped for the aloft part. > > I don't yet know how to terminate the tenex at the mid section but I assume > I will just taper and whip it. My question is, why is this a bad idea. It > must be as nobody is doing it. > > The hypothetical 100 ft halyard would cost under $80 so it is also cheap. > Compare that to about $250 for warpspeed of equivalent strength. > > Allen > > >

I have the same... not sure how rigger did it but will check today when at the boat. ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Edwards To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:42 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Halyard Can someone talk me out of making a main halyard this way: Say it is 100 feet and 50 feet is aloft, 50 feet on winch. cleat, coiled. Made of 100 feet of 3/16 Amsteel covered with 50 feet of 3/8 Tenex. Tenex is a 12 strand single braid poly line. The result should product a line that is about 7/16 in diameter where you pull yet small and light aloft. Tenex is also cheap and strong but what I mainly am looking for is something that is thick so that I don't have something like a 5/16 warpspeed with the cover stripped for the aloft part. I don't yet know how to terminate the tenex at the mid section but I assume I will just taper and whip it. My question is, why is this a bad idea. It must be as nobody is doing it. The hypothetical 100 ft halyard would cost under $80 so it is also cheap. Compare that to about $250 for warpspeed of equivalent strength. Allen