29 floor

the laminate sells in several lengths, has good edges, comes in two stiffnesses, but its more or less formica. You could make yourself a false floor with ribs and half inch ply and come up flush with the pan and the table mount, or lower if you are taller and put anything on it you want but it could be flattened out that way. Would add at least 30 pounds to the boat, but a big air space for insulation. a long piano hinge down the center so you can get it in and out, in line with the bumpout of the settee jog. I think I ate too much pumpkin pie. sorry, I get carried away. HH

Cute....sure it was the pumpkin.....perhaps the fermented apple juice. Anywho....have a great holiday. /ch On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > > > the laminate sells in several lengths, has good edges, comes in two > stiffnesses, but its more or less formica. You could make yourself a false > floor with ribs and half inch ply and come up flush with the pan and the > table mount, or lower if you are taller and put anything on it you want but > it could be flattened out that way. Would add at least 30 pounds to the > boat, but a big air space for insulation. a long piano hinge down the > center so you can get it in and out, in line with the bumpout of the settee > jog. I think I ate too much pumpkin pie. sorry, I get carried away. HH > > -- /ch

Chris, if you are really into the teak and holly laminate, you could take one of those multi-tools and cut the ends you would join into staggered edges to match the different ends so it would look like laid-down planking. a lot like repairing an old oak floor or similar. you would cut on the outside of the line on one sheet and have a pattern to mark and then cut the second sheet end to interlock the other piece. you'd want to be sure you cut the wood so it didn't splinter. If you used a wood veneer, you could razor cut on both layers at once. Better yet, just buy veneer from a supplier in each wood you want and rip strips to glue down in random lengths to make your own pattern on whatever you want for a base? thin mahogany ply for instance? new idea can go from here. More pie, anybody? HH From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 3:44:02 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor Cute....sure it was the pumpkin.....perhaps the fermented apple juice. Anywho....have a great holiday. /ch On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: >the laminate sells in several lengths, has good edges, comes in two stiffnesses, >but its more or less formica. You could make yourself a false floor with ribs >and half inch ply and come up flush with the pan and the table mount, or lower >if you are taller and put anything on it you want but it could be flattened out >that way. Would add at least 30 pounds to the boat, but a big air space for >insulation. a long piano hinge down the center so you can get it in and out, in >line with the bumpout of the settee jog. I think I ate too much pumpkin pie. >sorry, I get carried away. HH > -- /ch

One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream please...:) I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the potential pending law suite, decided against that method. More cider please? Many thanks /ch

Chris, I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't tried this, maybe Helen can comment? Dave D. --- On Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream please...:) I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the potential pending law suite, decided against that method. More cider please? Many thanks /ch

My cabin top is made of 6 layers of 1/4 inch plywood and it is curved. I don't know how that curve compares to what you need but it was curved without any saw cuts so I would think something like this would certainly work. I think wood would be warmer than vinyl. Of course, you could also do away with the plywood and just get a bunch of teak and holly or just teak and do it the old fashioned way. By the way, I put teak and holly plywood on the cabin sole on Papoose. It is not varnished. I don't understand why people varnish teak and holly. What I wanted was something that would give good grip when wet and it does. Varnish it and it will be slippery when wet. The whole reason you use teak and holly is that it doesn't need any finish and the holly will stay white if it gets wet. Other white woods turn black when they get wet. So people take this traditional material carefully selected to be able to get wet and varnish it. Looks great varnished but it doesn't work well that way. There used to be an expression in race car circles "if it don't go, chrome it" Maybe in boats it is "if it don't go, varnish it". To each their own but just throwing this out to point out you don't need to varnish it. Plus, if it gets scratched, doesn't really matter. You can see a picture that shows some of the cockpit sole on Papoose on this page: http://l-36.com/papoose.php Allen On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 7:57 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Chris, > I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly > plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In > the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend > the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't > tried this, maybe Helen can comment? > Dave D. > > --- On *Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>* wrote: > > > From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM > > > One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream > please...:) > > I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to > do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, > steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six > weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. > > So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the > potential pending law suite, decided against that method. > > More cider please? Many thanks > > /ch > > > > >

Allen, You are right on that. I would want a surface with good footing when wet. I knew that about holly, the only light wood that won't turn black when wet. Dave D. --- On Sat, 11/27/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 12:06 AM My cabin top is made of 6 layers of 1/4 inch plywood and it is curved. I don't know how that curve compares to what you need but it was curved without any saw cuts so I would think something like this would certainly work. I think wood would be warmer than vinyl. Of course, you could also do away with the plywood and just get a bunch of teak and holly or just teak and do it the old fashioned way. By the way, I put teak and holly plywood on the cabin sole on Papoose. It is not varnished. I don't understand why people varnish teak and holly. What I wanted was something that would give good grip when wet and it does. Varnish it and it will be slippery when wet. The whole reason you use teak and holly is that it doesn't need any finish and the holly will stay white if it gets wet. Other white woods turn black when they get wet. So people take this traditional material carefully selected to be able to get wet and varnish it. Looks great varnished but it doesn't work well that way. There used to be an expression in race car circles "if it don't go, chrome it" Maybe in boats it is "if it don't go, varnish it". To each their own but just throwing this out to point out you don't need to varnish it. Plus, if it gets scratched, doesn't really matter. You can see a picture that shows some of the cockpit sole on Papoose on this page: http://l-36.com/papoose.php Allen On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 7:57 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Chris, I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't tried this, maybe Helen can comment? Dave D. --- On Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream please...:) I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the potential pending law suite, decided against that method. More cider please? Many thanks /ch

If you decide to go the plywood route perhaps the way I did mine would help. First I had an old floor made of 12 inch plywood boards. You don't have that but some scrap plywood pieces may be available. I screwed them together or cut them until I got the sections I wanted for my new floor. You might even be able to use cardboard for this step. Next I got some cheap plywood and cut it to shape using the boards as a template and made sure everything fit. I cut what was too big and made notes on what was too small. Only then did I cut the real wood. In my case, I glued teak to the edges. I would not bother if I did it again. One piece was too big by 2x the teak edging so I cut that down and all was good. Having read all the posts in this thread, I would go the teak and holly 1/4 or 3/8 plywood route if I could buy some at a good price. I bought mine and had it shipped. You can find the vendor on my web site. It saved a lot of money but for one piece if you can find it locally that might be cheaper. When I bought mine, there wasn't any of any thickness in California. The problem with this instillation is how to hold it down. Perhaps gluing some runners and then screwing the plywood to the runners would work. You might need thicker plywood for that though. You also might lose an inch of headroom. I went to great lenghts to avoid any screws in mine and it really hasn't worked out that well. If I had just decided to screw it all down to begin with, I think I would have been happier in the long run. After a while, I wouldn't even notice the screws. But at this point I don't notice the lose boards that much... Allen On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 11:08 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Allen, > You are right on that. I would want a surface with good footing when wet. > I knew that about holly, the only light wood that won't turn black when wet. > Dave D. > > > --- On *Sat, 11/27/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com>*wrote: > > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 12:06 AM > > > My cabin top is made of 6 layers of 1/4 inch plywood and it is curved. I > don't know how that curve compares to what you need but it was curved > without any saw cuts so I would think something like this would certainly > work. I think wood would be warmer than vinyl. > > Of course, you could also do away with the plywood and just get a bunch of > teak and holly or just teak and do it the old fashioned way. > > By the way, I put teak and holly plywood on the cabin sole on Papoose. It > is not varnished. I don't understand why people varnish teak and holly. > What I wanted was something that would give good grip when wet and it does. > Varnish it and it will be slippery when wet. The whole reason you use teak > and holly is that it doesn't need any finish and the holly will stay white > if it gets wet. Other white woods turn black when they get wet. So people > take this traditional material carefully selected to be able to get wet and > varnish it. Looks great varnished but it doesn't work well that way. There > used to be an expression in race car circles "if it don't go, chrome it" > Maybe in boats it is "if it don't go, varnish it". To each their own but > just throwing this out to point out you don't need to varnish it. Plus, if > it gets scratched, doesn't really matter. You can see a picture that shows > some of the cockpit sole on Papoose on this page: > http://l-36.com/papoose.php > > > Allen > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 7:57 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com<http://us.mc1113.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=tm… [at] yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > > > Chris, > I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly > plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In > the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend > the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't > tried this, maybe Helen can comment? > Dave D. > > --- On *Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com<http://us.mc1113.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ch… [at] gmail.com> > >* wrote: > > > From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com<http://us.mc1113.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ch… [at] gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<http://us.mc1113.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM > > > One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream > please...:) > > I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to > do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, > steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six > weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. > > So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the > potential pending law suite, decided against that method. > > More cider please? Many thanks > > /ch > > > > > > >

yes, this grooving of the back of the wood panels is called "easing". they use this to make many rounded forms; staircase wraps, oldfashioned camper shells. you do have to be sure your sawblade depth doesn't change. test it first, very challenging, and the finished product relies on the remaining veneer to hold it together on the face side. it could be fragile if it flexes..HH From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 7:57:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) Chris, I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't tried this, maybe Helen can comment? Dave D. --- On Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM > > > >One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream please...:) > >I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to do it >properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, steam bend >it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six weeks later >you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. > > >So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the potential >pending law suite, decided against that method. > > >More cider please? Many thanks > >/ch > > >

Actually, I didn't have that much pie, but I meant to suggest the backing ply could be eased as in the other reply, meaning very shallow easing cuts on the 1/4 or 3/8, and securing it to the floor pan, then apply the wood strips with a good glue like smiths tropical which can handle weather, or a pva type glue.then you can seal it really good to protect from scratches and stains. did you get floor measurements yet? going to the boat in the morning, can get them for you. HH From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 3:15:50 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream please...:) I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the potential pending law suite, decided against that method. More cider please? Many thanks /ch

Length, width and depth (that is at the center point to get curvature angle) would be marvelous. Many thanks. Cutting the back of the board to get it to bend would not be a good practice for this kind of thing as even though its marine ply, the cuts would open the core to water penetration. If this method were used, if you steamed the substrate to form and cut it to length, then you would only need two battens on either side, port and starboard at the base of the settee's to hold the plate in place, effectively creating a floating floor system, further secure by a simple strip of velcro down the center, which may or may not be needed. Whats nice is the entire thing come out as needed and no adhesive would be required. Its a lot of work however. You would need to build a plug mold of the pan, steam the substrate in place then each strip would have to cut individual on one side to get the appropriate angle with no two angles being the same. Good ideas but far too much work. Investigation vinyl ....;) /ch On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > Actually, I didn't have that much pie, but I meant to suggest the backing > ply could be eased as in the other reply, meaning very shallow easing cuts > on the 1/4 or 3/8, and securing it to the floor pan, then apply the wood > strips with a good glue like smiths tropical which can handle weather, or a > pva type glue.then you can seal it really good to protect from scratches and > stains. did you get floor measurements yet? going to the boat in the > morning, can get them for you. HH > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Fri, November 26, 2010 3:15:50 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor > > > > One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream > please...:) > > I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to > do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, > steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six > weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. > > So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the > potential pending law suite, decided against that method. > > More cider please? Many thanks > > /ch > > > > -- /ch

Helen suggested the same and it could work. The only change I would make if going this route is once the floor is in place sitting in that well curved pan of the 29 (approx 4" drop at the center if not more...working from memory) I would cross brace the plate across the top to hold the shape. Then flip it over and epoxy the back side to prevent water penetration into the core of the board. Its marine ply yes, but still subject to water absorption. So a good layer of epoxy on the backside of the board which would require a slight cut every 1/2" or so to get it to bend, would prevent any water from getting in. The trouble here is that it would have to be done all inside the boat, Then again careful measurements would have to be taken to see if you can even slip a panel that large into the cabin from the companion way....food for thought. Thats what winters for...I guess. Many thanks /ch On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:57 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Chris, > I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly > plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In > the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend > the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't > tried this, maybe Helen can comment? > Dave D. >

1/4" plywood will follow the curve of a Cal 29 floor without any kerfing or easing. 1/2" plywood will not. 3/8" marine ply will follow the curvature without easing, but only after it completely breaks up inside (Loud, sharp cracking sounds) during that process. I learned these things the hard way while re-building the bilge and keel area of my 2-29. I ended up laminating two sheets of 1/4" marine ply for the base, and laminating 1/4" of teak/holly veneer for the surface. A much better way to do it -- when you laminate two surfaces into a curve you lock the curve in and it becomes very stiff and strong. Much stronger than the original 1/2" ply idea, which would have gone on trying to straighten itself back to flat for most of eternity. If you are fastening teak and holly plywood to the original fiberglass sole, just rough it up really good and after fitting the plywood perfectly (I used a rosin paper template transferred to a 1/8" cheapo door skin, then transferred to the teak/holly veneer ply) and glue it down with slightly thickened epoxy. I taped and covered the teak and holly side very carefully in case any epoxy spooged out and needed wiping up. I used about a dozen 60 lb. bags of sand to weight the plywood down over night while the epoxy set up. Look at the photos in the 1975 Cal 2-29 "Mariposa" album on the group page. Adding 1/4" of plywood to the original glass floor pan will stiffen it up somewhat and you will have less oil-canning as you walk about the cabin. One thing: the teak and holly that I ordered is actually pretty soft. When my crew tossed a spare halyard down below, the shackle made a deep dent. Subsequent wounds are pretty prominent. I am used to the patine of age and sort of like it, but it didn't take long for it to look old enough to be original equipment. HTH... Wilkie On Nov 27, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Helen Horn wrote: > > yes, this grooving of the back of the wood panels is called > "easing". they use this to make many rounded forms; staircase wraps, > oldfashioned camper shells. you do have to be sure your sawblade > depth doesn't change. test it first, very challenging, and the > finished product relies on the remaining veneer to hold it together > on the face side. it could be fragile if it flexes..HH > > > From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 7:57:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) > > > > > Chris, > I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & > holly plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, > 1/8" deep.(In the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow > one to be able to bend the plywood enough to glue it in the > necessary curved position. I haven't tried this, maybe Helen can > comment? > Dave D. > > --- On Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM > > > One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream > please...:) > > I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much > work to do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet > of marine ply, steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to > scarf in the boards. Six weeks later you have a floor and if anyone > scratches it they go overboard. > > So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the > potential pending law suite, decided against that method. > > More cider please? Many thanks > > /ch > > > > > >

Let me add a couple of ideas. One is that you don't need to have the floor be all one piece. My floor is 7 pieces for example. You can section it off so that you can remove the pieces, build it out of the boat, etc. Second is that you can make these pieces flat, making for a horizontal walking surface and some sloped side pieces at the edge that go up a couple of inches. Doing a rough calculation assuming your pan is 4 feet wide (I have no idea what it is) and assuming it goes up 4 inches on the edge. If you make your floor out of 3 pieces 16" wide with the center one being your walking area and level with no bend, it would be off the pan by 1/2 inch in the center. Same on the side pieces, maximum clearance 1/2 inch. I made a sketch ;-) Then your curving would consist of cutting curved support pieces for under the flat boards, much easier. You could use 1/2 inch ply with occasional bracing, maybe at 16 inches. Allen On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 8:40 AM, DavidOwen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com>wrote: > > > > 1/4" plywood will follow the curve of a Cal 29 floor without any kerfing or > easing. 1/2" plywood will not. 3/8" marine ply will follow the curvature > without easing, but only after it completely breaks up inside (Loud, sharp > cracking sounds) during that process. I learned these things the hard way > while re-building the bilge and keel area of my 2-29. I ended up laminating > two sheets of 1/4" marine ply for the base, and laminating 1/4" of > teak/holly veneer for the surface. A much better way to do it -- when you > laminate two surfaces into a curve you lock the curve in and it becomes very > stiff and strong. Much stronger than the original 1/2" ply idea, which > would have gone on trying to straighten itself back to flat for most of > eternity. > > If you are fastening teak and holly plywood to the original fiberglass > sole, just rough it up really good and after fitting the plywood perfectly > (I used a rosin paper template transferred to a 1/8" cheapo door skin, then > transferred to the teak/holly veneer ply) and glue it down with slightly > thickened epoxy. > > I taped and covered the teak and holly side very carefully in case any > epoxy spooged out and needed wiping up. I used about a dozen 60 lb. bags of > sand to weight the plywood down over night while the epoxy set up. Look at > the photos in the 1975 Cal 2-29 "Mariposa" album on the group page. > > Adding 1/4" of plywood to the original glass floor pan will stiffen it up > somewhat and you will have less oil-canning as you walk about the cabin. > > One thing: the teak and holly that I ordered is actually pretty soft. > When my crew tossed a spare halyard down below, the shackle made a deep > dent. Subsequent wounds are pretty prominent. I am used to the patine of > age and sort of like it, but it didn't take long for it to look old enough > to be original equipment. > > HTH... > > Wilkie > > > On Nov 27, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Helen Horn wrote: > > > yes, this grooving of the back of the wood panels is called "easing". they > use this to make many rounded forms; staircase wraps, oldfashioned camper > shells. you do have to be sure your sawblade depth doesn't change. test it > first, very challenging, and the finished product relies on the remaining > veneer to hold it together on the face side. it could be fragile if it > flexes..HH > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Fri, November 26, 2010 7:57:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) > > > > > Chris, > I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly > plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In > the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend > the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't > tried this, maybe Helen can comment? > Dave D. > > --- On *Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>* wrote: > > > From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM > > > One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream > please...:) > > I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to > do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, > steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six > weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. > > > So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the > potential pending law suite, decided against that method. > > More cider please? Many thanks > > /ch > > > > > > > >

"Look at the photos in the 1975 Cal 2-29 "Mariposa" album on the group page" only if you wish to risk death by drooling. reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: wi… [at] mariposasailing.com Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:40:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) 1/4" plywood will follow the curve of a Cal 29 floor without any kerfing or easing. 1/2" plywood will not. 3/8" marine ply will follow the curvature without easing, but only after it completely breaks up inside (Loud, sharp cracking sounds) during that process. I learned these things the hard way while re-building the bilge and keel area of my 2-29. I ended up laminating two sheets of 1/4" marine ply for the base, and laminating 1/4" of teak/holly veneer for the surface. A much better way to do it -- when you laminate two surfaces into a curve you lock the curve in and it becomes very stiff and strong. Much stronger than the original 1/2" ply idea, which would have gone on trying to straighten itself back to flat for most of eternity. If you are fastening teak and holly plywood to the original fiberglass sole, just rough it up really good and after fitting the plywood perfectly (I used a rosin paper template transferred to a 1/8" cheapo door skin, then transferred to the teak/holly veneer ply) and glue it down with slightly thickened epoxy. I taped and covered the teak and holly side very carefully in case any epoxy spooged out and needed wiping up. I used about a dozen 60 lb. bags of sand to weight the plywood down over night while the epoxy set up. Look at the photos in the 1975 Cal 2-29 "Mariposa" album on the group page. Adding 1/4" of plywood to the original glass floor pan will stiffen it up somewhat and you will have less oil-canning as you walk about the cabin. One thing: the teak and holly that I ordered is actually pretty soft. When my crew tossed a spare halyard down below, the shackle made a deep dent. Subsequent wounds are pretty prominent. I am used to the patine of age and sort of like it, but it didn't take long for it to look old enough to be original equipment. HTH... Wilkie On Nov 27, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Helen Horn wrote: yes, this grooving of the back of the wood panels is called "easing". they use this to make many rounded forms; staircase wraps, oldfashioned camper shells. you do have to be sure your sawblade depth doesn't change. test it first, very challenging, and the finished product relies on the remaining veneer to hold it together on the face side. it could be fragile if it flexes..HH From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 7:57:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) Chris, I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't tried this, maybe Helen can comment? Dave D. --- On Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream please...:) I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the potential pending law suite, decided against that method. More cider please? Many thanks /ch

Thanks for the early morning laugh, Reggie. Mariposa is beautiful. I'm in Wisconsin feeding my cows, looking out at frozen, snow covered ground. Talk of boats and sailing this time of year is more important than you may realize By the way, I really enjoyed reading your daily travails of your summer cruise up the coast. It helped inspire my short cruise of the Mississippi this summer. Best Regards Jeff On Dec 2, 2010, at 6:17 AM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > "Look at the photos in the 1975 Cal 2-29 "Mariposa" album on the group page" > > only if you wish to risk death by drooling. > > reggie > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: wi… [at] mariposasailing.com > Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:40:33 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) > > > > 1/4" plywood will follow the curve of a Cal 29 floor without any kerfing or easing. 1/2" plywood will not. 3/8" marine ply will follow the curvature without easing, but only after it completely breaks up inside (Loud, sharp cracking sounds) during that process. I learned these things the hard way while re-building the bilge and keel area of my 2-29. I ended up laminating two sheets of 1/4" marine ply for the base, and laminating 1/4" of teak/holly veneer for the surface. A much better way to do it -- when you laminate two surfaces into a curve you lock the curve in and it becomes very stiff and strong. Much stronger than the original 1/2" ply idea, which would have gone on trying to straighten itself back to flat for most of eternity. > > If you are fastening teak and holly plywood to the original fiberglass sole, just rough it up really good and after fitting the plywood perfectly (I used a rosin paper template transferred to a 1/8" cheapo door skin, then transferred to the teak/holly veneer ply) and glue it down with slightly thickened epoxy. > > I taped and covered the teak and holly side very carefully in case any epoxy spooged out and needed wiping up. I used about a dozen 60 lb. bags of sand to weight the plywood down over night while the epoxy set up. Look at the photos in the 1975 Cal 2-29 "Mariposa" album on the group page. > > Adding 1/4" of plywood to the original glass floor pan will stiffen it up somewhat and you will have less oil-canning as you walk about the cabin. > > One thing: the teak and holly that I ordered is actually pretty soft. When my crew tossed a spare halyard down below, the shackle made a deep dent. Subsequent wounds are pretty prominent. I am used to the patine of age and sort of like it, but it didn't take long for it to look old enough to be original equipment. > > HTH... > > Wilkie > > > On Nov 27, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Helen Horn wrote: > > > yes, this grooving of the back of the wood panels is called "easing". they use this to make many rounded forms; staircase wraps, oldfashioned camper shells. you do have to be sure your sawblade depth doesn't change. test it first, very challenging, and the finished product relies on the remaining veneer to hold it together on the face side. it could be fragile if it flexes..HH > > > From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 7:57:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor(Chris H) > > > > > Chris, > I did some work on this issue too. I was advised to buy 1/4" teak & holly plywood, cut it to fit and score the back with a circular saw, 1/8" deep.(In the long direction, multiple times.) This will allow one to be able to bend the plywood enough to glue it in the necessary curved position. I haven't tried this, maybe Helen can comment? > Dave D. > > --- On Fri, 11/26/10, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 floor > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 5:15 PM > > > One more piece please Helen....and don't hold the whipping cream please...:) > > I gave that method some thought and to be honest its far too much work to do it properly. Basically you would need a 1/4" to 3/8 sheet of marine ply, steam bend it to shape of the 29 pan, then start to scarf in the boards. Six weeks later you have a floor and if anyone scratches it they go overboard. > > So in order to avoid the complications of search and rescue and the potential pending law suite, decided against that method. > > More cider please? Many thanks > > /ch > > > > > > > > >