Re: [Cal_Boats] Hard Water Winter Sailing

Wow!! . . . I know squat about ice boating/sailing//racing so I have a few questions. What do the courses look like in relationship to the wind ie: all reaching triangles, drag races or windward/leeward and if so has anyone ever tried a spinnaker ;-) ? Do the rules resemble sailing rules at all ie: port/starboard r.o.w., how do they start? Is the only way to stop by dragging your feet or hitting something? BTW that ice looked like water several times. Paul In a message dated 12/7/2010 9:48:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cc… [at] lsnm.org writes: On 12/7/2010 9:27 AM, Michael D wrote: For your entertainment... _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgd898Qmj8M_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgd898Qmj8M) Thanks for the link. What perfect ice! And I'll remind everybody that the DN iceboat, one of man's perfect creations, is a Michigan product (DN = Detroit News, the newspaper that sponsored the design contest in the 1930s) and its current form is a result of design improvements within the class rules by the Gougeon Brothers, Meade and Jan, of Bay City, MI. The DN looks cool just sitting there. Chris Campbell iceless so far

On 12/7/2010 12:23 PM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > Wow!! . . . I know squat about ice boating/sailing//racing so I have a > few questions. > What do the courses look like in relationship to the wind ie: all > reaching triangles, drag races or windward/leeward and if so has > anyone ever tried a spinnaker ;-) ? Do the rules resemble sailing > rules at all ie: port/starboard r.o.w., how do they start? Is the > only way to stop by dragging your feet or hitting something? I'm a cruiser, not a racer (you have to be able to think really fast when you're racing at 40 mph), but here goes. Courses are upwind/downwind, more or less. Spinnakers would be used to slow you down, since the fastest way to sail is usually tacking downwind--you're sailing faster than the wind, and to stop, you head dead downwind, which will at least slow you down when apparent wind = zero. Sailing is almost always close hauled once you're under way. Stopping involves turning bow into wind ultimately. Dragging feet can help slow the boat down, as in the video. Starting is by running & pushing to accelerate & get apparent wind. Racers all have grips on the boots. I don't because it would mess up the paint on my antique boat. Everything happens fast on good ice with good wind. The sense of acceleration is thrilling. You're lying on your back, inches off the ice, so the sense of speed is terrific. You have to be a bit masochistic to sail an iceboat because the wind can be cold & painful but the thrill of sailing fast is worth it and you keep going back. > BTW that ice looked like water several times. It can be very eerie sailing or walking on very clear ice--you think you're about to fall in. It's rare but delightful when it's that perfect. Chris Campbell >

Chris summed it up really well, but I'll add a bit more to it. You asked about r-o-w rules...they are somewhat similar but different and starboard does not have rights in all cases. I need to read up on them again. There isn't much racing where I am, but I would like to get into it. The one thing that makes me a little nervous is trying to remember the differences at 50 mph. They start with half the boats on a port tack and half on a starboard tack. You run and jump in at the gun. I sailed on ice like that the first day last season. Give a bit of an uneasy feeling. Also, you should see the mast bend on a modern DN...crazy. Here's some more video, from New England. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPOjYH45jnQ This guy has allot of good video and they seem to have great ice all the time. Bob Ellison Cal-2-27 and DN 5436 From: Chris To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Hard Water Winter Sailing On 12/7/2010 12:23 PM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: Wow!! . . . I know squat about ice boating/sailing//racing so I have a few questions. What do the courses look like in relationship to the wind ie: all reaching triangles, drag races or windward/leeward and if so has anyone ever tried a spinnaker ;-) ? Do the rules resemble sailing rules at all ie: port/starboard r.o.w., how do they start? Is the only way to stop by dragging your feet or hitting something? I'm a cruiser, not a racer (you have to be able to think really fast when you're racing at 40 mph), but here goes. Courses are upwind/downwind, more or less. Spinnakers would be used to slow you down, since the fastest way to sail is usually tacking downwind--you're sailing faster than the wind, and to stop, you head dead downwind, which will at least slow you down when apparent wind = zero. Sailing is almost always close hauled once you're under way. Stopping involves turning bow into wind ultimately. Dragging feet can help slow the boat down, as in the video. Starting is by running & pushing to accelerate & get apparent wind. Racers all have grips on the boots. I don't because it would mess up the paint on my antique boat. Everything happens fast on good ice with good wind. The sense of acceleration is thrilling. You're lying on your back, inches off the ice, so the sense of speed is terrific. You have to be a bit masochistic to sail an iceboat because the wind can be cold & painful but the thrill of sailing fast is worth it and you keep going back. BTW that ice looked like water several times. It can be very eerie sailing or walking on very clear ice--you think you're about to fall in. It's rare but delightful when it's that perfect. Chris Campbell

On 12/7/2010 1:17 PM, Bob Ellison wrote: > >  > > > Also, you should see the mast bend on a modern DN...crazy. On that subject, you can find photos here: > http://www.idniyra.org/photos.htm The mast bend flattens the sail in puffs, which is necessary because the other form of relief in soft-water boats, heeling, is undesirable when you are sailing on a hard surface at high speed. A little bit of hiking up on two runners is fun, but a little bit can quickly turn into too much. My hand surgeon did not complain.... My old boat has the high-tech sail of the early 1950s, nylon. As we all know, nylon is stretchy, so when the puff hits, the sail gains draft. Not a good plan. I really need to buy a used Dacron sail for my old DN (#373). These are phenomenally successful boats. Sail numbers in the US alone are in the 5000s now, and then there are the other countries. It's a truly international class. At the competitive level (which old #373 does not approach) there is a lot of tweaking--shroud length & mast rake, sheet block location to affect mast bend, runner alignment, shape & material, sail shape. One secret of the class has been limiting materials and construction enough to allow owner building and keep costs down, but allowing enough latitude to encourage some innovation and improvement. Chris Campbell