Re: [Cal_Boats] Powerboaters and sea stories

Chris, we sailors are often accused of only remembering Rule #18 a iv (that basically says that a powerboat must give way to a sailboat) and that it means that we ALWAYS have the Right of Way, which most of us realize is not true (we are the Stand-On Vessel in most situations, but not ALL). However, there are an awful lot of recreational fishermen (and fisherwomen) who only read the rules far enough to note that a "fishing vessel" has the Right of Way over sailboats and other powerboats. Of course that rule is correct, FISHING VESSELS are Stand-On to most of us.....but "Fishing Vessel" refers to a trawler with nets out (and also, I feel a Lobster boat retrieving/setting traps?) but does NOT refer to us pleasure boaters trolling for Bluefish (on the coast) or freshwater guys trolling for Walleye, Salmon, or Trout. But, try to tell them that...... they won't listen. To me, I'd go astern of another vessel if I'm trolling just to avoid getting my lines caught on the other boat, I can't afford to keep losing line and lures! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 PS: The biggest Bluefish that I ever reeled in, was caught while dragging a lure behind my Day Sailer II, while UNDER SAIL! On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 09:22:52 -0500 Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> writes: On 12/7/2010 9:27 PM, chris123 wrote: .and coming back in via the channel, well I just pulled over and waited for a lull while 50 to 60 power boaters just flew past me at full throttle. All baseball caps were on backwards, so you know the jersey crowd we are dealing with. here. Where my other boat lives, the marinas and launch ramps are all in the Saginaw River, a large river carrying commercial traffic in a dredged channel. Most of the lower reaches of it have hardened banks--sheet piling, rip-rap, and other protection. As a result, wakes tend to bounce back & forth with the crests and troughs coinciding. The powerboats would fly along, creating massive wakes and really dangerous conditions when those wakes reinforced each other in phase. It was wild and really unnerving. Finally the various governmental units passed no-wake ordinances for most of the busy part of the river, which calms things down. I always know, however, that as I reach the mouth, I'll need to be prepared for mountainous wakes because the big powerboats will be halfway on plane. It's shallow there, and we are all confined in the dredged channel. Some are accelerating and some, witless souls, perceive that half speed is somehow more polite. Apparently they've never looked behind their vessels. And the fishermen, on the subject of witless. Here in the Great Lakes, there is a lot of trolling for walleye or salmon or trout, often using planer boards to keep the lines well to the sides of the boats. There's something like the attraction of a light bulb for night-flying insects going on. The fishermen are determined to power right across my bow when I'm sailing--even though they could make a very slight course change and cross my stern instead. And then they get all offended if their lines are disturbed. I have never figured this one out. Maybe they're afraid of wearing out the steering gear if they make a small course correction. Maybe they don't even think. Chris Campbell Refinance Rates at 2.7% $160,000 Mortgage $434/mo. No Hidden Fees- 3.04% APR! Get a Free Quote http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d002f3158db75ae0b3st03duc

On Behalf Of rjohnson24 PS: The biggest Bluefish that I ever reeled in, was caught while dragging a lure behind my Day Sailer II, while UNDER SAIL! Most fish are sensitive to the trolling speed, below 5 knots you will catch blues, above 6 kn you can get some mackerel, Spanish, kings, etc 7 knots will find tuna and mahi, above 8 knots will catch wahoo and sailfish. Ymmv john

I troll while under sail. I also want to try kite fishing from the sailboat too!

My dad used to put a line out the stern on the way to Catalina. The only thing we ever caught was a Barracuda. That thing had teath!!! Allen On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:20 PM, john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> wrote: > > > *On Behalf Of *rjohnson24 > > PS: The biggest Bluefish that I ever reeled in, was caught while dragging a > lure behind my Day Sailer II, while UNDER SAIL! > > > > Most fish are sensitive to the trolling speed, below 5 knots you will catch > blues, above 6 kn you can get some mackerel, Spanish, kings, etc > > 7 knots will find tuna and mahi, above 8 knots will catch wahoo and > sailfish. > > > > Ymmv > > john > > >

On 12/8/2010 8:21 PM, rj… [at] juno.com wrote: > > Chris, we sailors are often accused of only remembering Rule #18 a iv > (that basically says that a powerboat must give way to a sailboat) and > that it means that we ALWAYS have the Right of Way, which most of us > realize is not true (we are the Stand-On Vessel in most situations, > but not ALL). One of our schooner captains, when training new crew, always reminds them that one does not HAVE the right of way, one IS GIVEN the right of way. In other words, caution is always advised. And all vessels have a responsibility to avoid collision. You can't stand-on when you have an option to avoid collision. > However, there are an awful lot of recreational fishermen (and > fisherwomen) who only read the rules far enough to note that a > "fishing vessel" has the Right of Way over sailboats and other > powerboats. Of course that rule is correct, FISHING VESSELS are > Stand-On to most of us.....but "Fishing Vessel" refers to a trawler > with nets out (and also, I feel a Lobster boat retrieving/setting > traps?) but does NOT refer to us pleasure boaters trolling for > Bluefish (on the coast) or freshwater guys trolling for Walleye, > Salmon, or Trout. But, try to tell them that...... they won't listen. > To me, I'd go astern of another vessel if I'm trolling just to avoid > getting my lines caught on the other boat, I can't afford to keep > losing line and lures! It's just so puzzling to me why those guys cannot figure it out. Let's see... I'm dragging expensive line and tackle behind my boat... there's another boat approaching with a big appendage under water... should I go in front or behind? It's a no-brainer, really, which allows us to draw certain conclusions about the mental status of the ones who cut in front. I've got lots of sympathy for folks who are on the water earning a living when I'm just out there having fun. But other recreational folks need to think past their own bow. Chris Campbell >

< It's just so puzzling to me why those guys cannot figure it out. Let's see... I'm dragging expensive line and tackle behind my boat... there's another boat approaching with a big appendage under water... should I go in front or behind? It's a no-brainer, really, which allows us to draw certain conclusions about the mental status of the ones who cut in front. I've got lots of sympathy for folks who are on the water earning a living when I'm just out there having fun. But other recreational folks need to think past their own bow. > Chris Campbell Well apparently it is a "brainer" since we all know these guys have no brains . . . maybe there is actually a vacuum in their heads and they are not just empty ;-) Paul

My friend was hit by one of them midship. The guy was paying attention to his expensive gear and not to where he was going. My friend thought the guy would go behind him as usually happens where we sail and was unable to start his engine in time. He had just taken his sails down so absolutely had the right of way. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > On 12/8/2010 8:21 PM, rj… [at] juno.com wrote: > > > > Chris, we sailors are often accused of only remembering Rule #18 a iv > (that basically says that a powerboat must give way to a sailboat) and that > it means that we ALWAYS have the Right of Way, which most of us realize is > not true (we are the Stand-On Vessel in most situations, but not ALL). > > > One of our schooner captains, when training new crew, always reminds them > that one does not HAVE the right of way, one IS GIVEN the right of way. In > other words, caution is always advised. And all vessels have a > responsibility to avoid collision. You can't stand-on when you have an > option to avoid collision. > > > However, there are an awful lot of recreational fishermen (and fisherwomen) > who only read the rules far enough to note that a "fishing vessel" has the > Right of Way over sailboats and other powerboats. Of course that rule is > correct, FISHING VESSELS are Stand-On to most of us.....but "Fishing Vessel" > refers to a trawler with nets out (and also, I feel a Lobster boat > retrieving/setting traps?) but does NOT refer to us pleasure boaters > trolling for Bluefish (on the coast) or freshwater guys trolling for > Walleye, Salmon, or Trout. But, try to tell them that...... they won't > listen. > > To me, I'd go astern of another vessel if I'm trolling just to avoid > getting my lines caught on the other boat, I can't afford to keep losing > line and lures! > > > It's just so puzzling to me why those guys cannot figure it out. Let's > see... I'm dragging expensive line and tackle behind my boat... there's > another boat approaching with a big appendage under water... should I go in > front or behind? It's a no-brainer, really, which allows us to draw certain > conclusions about the mental status of the ones who cut in front. I've got > lots of sympathy for folks who are on the water earning a living when I'm > just out there having fun. But other recreational folks need to think past > their own bow. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > >

Hi Cal Folks, I had to chime in on this thread as a long time Cal sailer, 40+ years, fisherman, (Record to date is a 165 pound Striped Marlin caught from our Cal 46), Former Race Committee member LBYC & 1984 Olympics, 1995 Pre-Olympics, Savannah, 100 ton license holder, 18 year liveaboard, 9 years active cruising, has been racer, etc. I have always tried to be CONSIDERATE, regardless of the boat I am driving and who is "priveleged" and/or "burdened". I always have a watch stander who has sole responsibilty for assuring we are being lawful, safe and considerate. We have radar, GPS, paper charts, binoculars, and before next trip we will have AIS. Over the years we have had many close calls, never ;-) my fault... Crossing the Atlantic in 1985 with some friends, halfway across and having seen nothing since the Canary Islands, we had a collision course issue with a French sailboat, but we fell off and passed astern. Always keep a sober watch! Delivering an 85' Berger power yachtfrom Trinidad to Ft Lauderdale in 1994 was an experience in watch standing. We experienced some alpha hotel sailboaters also. When I am fishing from our 22' Panga, we always avoid sailboat race areas and give way as we are very manueverable. With the price of fishing lures nowadays, I would never risk one by trolling in front of any boat. When the Grandkids come to visit and want to water ski, we always go on the weekdays and to an area off the ICW that is little used by other boaters. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46 & some other boats, living and loving on Bayou Chico : >Chris, we sailors are often accused of only remembering Rule #18 a iv (that >basically says that a powerboat must give way to a sailboat) and that it means >that we ALWAYS have the Right of Way, which most of us realize is not true (we >are the Stand-On Vessel in most situations, but not ALL). One of our schooner captains, when training new crew, always reminds them that one does not HAVE the right of way, one IS GIVEN the right of way. In other words, caution is always advised. And all vessels have a responsibility to avoid collision. You can't stand-on when you have an option to avoid collision. > >However, there are an awful lot of recreational fishermen (and fisherwomen) who >only read the rules far enough to note that a "fishing vessel" has the Right of >Way over sailboats and other powerboats. Of course that rule is correct, FISHING >VESSELS are Stand-On to most of us.....but "Fishing Vessel" refers to a trawler >with nets out (and also, I feel a Lobster boat retrieving/setting traps?) but >does NOT refer to us pleasure boaters trolling for Bluefish (on the coast) or >freshwater guys trolling for Walleye, Salmon, or Trout. But, try to tell them >that...... they won't listen. > >To me, I'd go astern of another vessel if I'm trolling just to avoid getting my >lines caught on the other boat, I can't afford to keep losing line and lures! It's just so puzzling to me why those guys cannot figure it out. Let's see... I'm dragging expensive line and tackle behind my boat... there's another boat approaching with a big appendage under water... should I go in front or behind? It's a no-brainer, really, which allows us to draw certain conclusions about the mental status of the ones who cut in front. I've got lots of sympathy for folks who are on the water earning a living when I'm just out there having fun. But other recreational folks need to think past their own bow. Chris Campbell > > >

Allen, I'm trying to understand why someone would take their sails down before starting their engine, because you have little directional control over the boat in that case, especially in a seaway with other boating traffic, or near docks or obstructions. I'll bet he doesn't do THAT again. Of course, if you are sailing and the wind goes dead you're in the same boat, so to speak. In that case it would be a good idea to have a loud horn handy, or shout really loud. Jerry --- On Thu, 12/9/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Powerboaters and sea stories To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 9:12 AM My friend was hit by one of them midship. The guy was paying attention to his expensive gear and not to where he was going. My friend thought the guy would go behind him as usually happens where we sail and was unable to start his engine in time. He had just taken his sails down so absolutely had the right of way. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: On 12/8/2010 8:21 PM, rj… [at] juno.com wrote: Chris, we sailors are often accused of only remembering Rule #18 a iv (that basically says that a powerboat must give way to a sailboat) and that it means that we ALWAYS have the Right of Way, which most of us realize is not true (we are the Stand-On Vessel in most situations, but not ALL). One of our schooner captains, when training new crew, always reminds them that one does not HAVE the right of way, one IS GIVEN the right of way. In other words, caution is always advised. And all vessels have a responsibility to avoid collision. You can't stand-on when you have an option to avoid collision. However, there are an awful lot of recreational fishermen (and fisherwomen) who only read the rules far enough to note that a "fishing vessel" has the Right of Way over sailboats and other powerboats. Of course that rule is correct, FISHING VESSELS are Stand-On to most of us.....but "Fishing Vessel" refers to a trawler with nets out (and also, I feel a Lobster boat retrieving/setting traps?) but does NOT refer to us pleasure boaters trolling for Bluefish (on the coast) or freshwater guys trolling for Walleye, Salmon, or Trout. But, try to tell them that...... they won't listen. To me, I'd go astern of another vessel if I'm trolling just to avoid getting my lines caught on the other boat, I can't afford to keep losing line and lures! It's just so puzzling to me why those guys cannot figure it out. Let's see... I'm dragging expensive line and tackle behind my boat... there's another boat approaching with a big appendage under water... should I go in front or behind? It's a no-brainer, really, which allows us to draw certain conclusions about the mental status of the ones who cut in front. I've got lots of sympathy for folks who are on the water earning a living when I'm just out there having fun. But other recreational folks need to think past their own bow. Chris Campbell

He does it all the time The wind blows directly from the shore and it would have to blow you 10 miles before you would hit land. There is very little boat traffic around here. It is most typical that there will be no boats within several miles when you take down your sails. Allen On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Allen, I'm trying to understand why someone would take their sails down > before starting their engine, because you have little directional control > over the boat in that case, especially in a seaway with other boating > traffic, or near docks or obstructions. I'll bet he doesn't do THAT again. > Of course, if you are sailing and the wind goes dead you're in the same > boat, so to speak. In that case it would be a good idea to have a loud horn > handy, or shout really loud. > Jerry > > --- On *Thu, 12/9/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com>*wrote: > > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Powerboaters and sea stories > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 9:12 AM > > > > My friend was hit by one of them midship. The guy was paying attention to > his expensive gear and not to where he was going. My friend thought the guy > would go behind him as usually happens where we sail and was unable to start > his engine in time. He had just taken his sails down so absolutely had the > right of way. > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org<http://mc/compose?to=cc… [at] lsnm.org> > > wrote: > > > > On 12/8/2010 8:21 PM, rj… [at] juno.com<http://mc/compose?to=rj… [at] juno.com>wrote: > > > > Chris, we sailors are often accused of only remembering Rule #18 a iv > (that basically says that a powerboat must give way to a sailboat) and that > it means that we ALWAYS have the Right of Way, which most of us realize is > not true (we are the Stand-On Vessel in most situations, but not ALL). > > > One of our schooner captains, when training new crew, always reminds them > that one does not HAVE the right of way, one IS GIVEN the right of way. In > other words, caution is always advised. And all vessels have a > responsibility to avoid collision. You can't stand-on when you have an > option to avoid collision. > > > However, there are an awful lot of recreational fishermen (and fisherwomen) > who only read the rules far enough to note that a "fishing vessel" has the > Right of Way over sailboats and other powerboats. Of course that rule is > correct, FISHING VESSELS are Stand-On to most of us.....but "Fishing Vessel" > refers to a trawler with nets out (and also, I feel a Lobster boat > retrieving/setting traps?) but does NOT refer to us pleasure boaters > trolling for Bluefish (on the coast) or freshwater guys trolling for > Walleye, Salmon, or Trout. But, try to tell them that...... they won't > listen. > > To me, I'd go astern of another vessel if I'm trolling just to avoid > getting my lines caught on the other boat, I can't afford to keep losing > line and lures! > > > It's just so puzzling to me why those guys cannot figure it out. Let's > see... I'm dragging expensive line and tackle behind my boat... there's > another boat approaching with a big appendage under water... should I go in > front or behind? It's a no-brainer, really, which allows us to draw certain > conclusions about the mental status of the ones who cut in front. I've got > lots of sympathy for folks who are on the water earning a living when I'm > just out there having fun. But other recreational folks need to think past > their own bow. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > >

When in imminent danger, when you think you and the other boat disagree on signals or they don't see you, you need to sound the 5-blast danger warning and avert disaster. We don't drop sails until the engine is started. If the wind dies, at least they might see your sails. No one will hear you on the other boat if their engine is running unless you use the radio and a horn. Fishing with gear is a very dangerous activity, in addition to losing gear ($), in a panic one can lose fingers, hands, and be injured too badly to control the boat. So everybody watching on a constant basis will help avoid getting this close, as the fisherman is never fishing at high speed. If you get in his way(right or wrong) it is inconsiderate because having to suddenly avoid you who may have sailed in faster thinking you could clear him can cause him to foul all his lines behind the boat (think up to six, 3 on each side) (with possibly fish on). With the cost of fuel these days, he is probably fishing for his dinners or yours at the restaurant on the dock, with very little profit. His wife's job may be what keeps the boat alive, permits, licenses, slip rents, and he makes a go of it in hopes the situation will improve someday, before he gives in. They are not all jerks, though they aren't the social group that we cal sailors are. In Northern Calif, not too many sailing events conflict with fishing grounds, so we don't have it as bad as the east coast seems to. Allen, in south bay, the channel splits at marker 3 to either Alviso or to Redwood Creek and then to the Port of RC. You can stick a cal 29 in the mud inside the markers after #8 heading up into the creek and harbors, it is silted or poorly dredged near the north side, especially near the entrance to Corkscrew Slough. Usually 36 feet deep in the center, where the barges, ships, and tugs go to the port. But you probably know they don't fill the ships or barges all the way because of the draft there. On high tide days we have raced way out near the old wreck. You actually go up to #3, then sail off to starboard (southeast) as there are obstructions and mud between the two north south channels. Helen From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 7:02:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Powerboaters and sea stories(Allen) Allen, I'm trying to understand why someone would take their sails down before starting their engine, because you have little directional control over the boat in that case, especially in a seaway with other boating traffic, or near docks or obstructions. I'll bet he doesn't do THAT again. Of course, if you are sailing and the wind goes dead you're in the same boat, so to speak. In that case it would be a good idea to have a loud horn handy, or shout really loud. Jerry --- On Thu, 12/9/10, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Powerboaters and sea stories >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 9:12 AM > > > >My friend was hit by one of them midship. The guy was paying attention to his >expensive gear and not to where he was going. My friend thought the guy would >go behind him as usually happens where we sail and was unable to start his >engine in time. He had just taken his sails down so absolutely had the right of >way. > > >On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > >>On 12/8/2010 8:21 PM, rj… [at] juno.com wrote: >> >>>Chris, we sailors are often accused of only remembering Rule #18 a >>>iv (that basically says that a powerboat must give way to a >>>sailboat) and that it means that we ALWAYS have the Right of Way, >>>which most of us realize is not true (we are the Stand-On Vessel >>>in most situations, but not ALL). >One of our schooner captains, when training new crew, always reminds them >that one does not HAVE the right of way, one IS GIVEN the right of way. In >other words, caution is always advised. And all vessels have a >responsibility to avoid collision. You can't stand-on when you have an >option to avoid collision. > > >>However, there are an awful lot of recreational fishermen (and >>fisherwomen) who only read the rules far enough to note that a >>"fishing vessel" has the Right of Way over sailboats and other >>powerboats. Of course that rule is correct, FISHING VESSELS are >>Stand-On to most of us.....but "Fishing Vessel" refers to a >>trawler with nets out (and also, I feel a Lobster boat >>retrieving/setting traps?) but does NOT refer to us pleasure >>boaters trolling for Bluefish (on the coast) or freshwater guys >>trolling for Walleye, Salmon, or Trout. But, try to tell them >>that...... they won't listen. >> >>To me, I'd go astern of another vessel if I'm trolling just to >>avoid getting my lines caught on the other boat, I can't afford to >>keep losing line and lures! It's just so puzzling to me why those guys cannot figure it out. Let's see... I'm dragging expensive line and tackle behind my boat... there's another boat approaching with a big appendage under water... should I go in front or behind? It's a no-brainer, really, which allows us to draw certain conclusions about the mental status of the ones who cut in front. I've got lots of sympathy for folks who are on the water earning a living when I'm just out there having fun. But other recreational folks need to think past their own bow. Chris Campbell > > >

On 12/9/2010 10:02 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Allen, I'm trying to understand why someone would take their sails > down before starting their engine, because you have little directional > control over the boat in that case, especially in a seaway with other > boating traffic, or near docks or obstructions. > I will strike sails before starting the engine when I'm single-handing on the vague theory that it may give me some priority under Rule 18 if I'm not under power. If the powerboaters see my outboard smoking, they're more likely to expect me to get out of their way. Chris Campbell > >

> > Allen, in south bay, the channel splits at marker 3 to either Alviso or to > Redwood Creek and then to the Port of RC. You can stick a cal 29 in the mud > inside the markers after #8 heading up into the creek and harbors, it is > silted or poorly dredged near the north side, especially near the entrance > to Corkscrew Slough. Usually 36 feet deep in the center, where the barges, > ships, and tugs go to the port. But you probably know they don't fill the > ships or barges all the way because of the draft there. > On high tide days we have raced way out near the old wreck. You actually go > up to #3, then sail off to starboard (southeast) as there are obstructions > and mud between the two north south channels. Helen > I am in the north part of the south bay. It would take two hours to sail across. Nothing like the south part of the south bay. Allen