Re: Cal 29 Drains

Hello all: I put two new 1 1/2 drains at the forward end of the cockpit. The pipes go straight down, but the only place to put a through hull and a valve was in the lockers on the forward end of the pilot berths port and starboard. As straight as possible is best for drainage. I found that they work great because we took a beam wave in to the cockpit that filled it to the companionway. But it drain in about a half a minute. At first I used flexible hose but found that somehow I got a leak it one hoses just above the water line so I replaced both with PVC pipe. Steve

Chris inquired: "However I would like to add an additional port and starboard drain at the front of the cockpit to increase the flow rate and was wondering what is the best way to both construct and route these additional drains." I vaguely recall Brian Cleverly posting on this very topic (but not for a Cal 29). As I recall, he built up fiberglass pipes around a form; maybe he used a cardboard tube wrapped in plastic? Does anyone have an archive on those posts? I suspect it predated the Yahoo! list by one or two hosts. .Ah. I found mention of this on his site. Here's the link: http://www.anzam.com/images/fuji/project/work_begins/welcome.htm "I made the tubes from 3 alternating layers each of 9oz cloth and 18oz Biaxial with mat. Spiral wound on a form, each layer laid in opposite direction to the preceeding one and have a wall thickness of 1/4". Pix are here <http://www.anzam.com/images/fuji/project/work_begins/fiberglass_tube_48inch .jpg> , and here <http://www.anzam.com/images/fuji/project/work_begins/fiberglass_tube_2_5id. jpg> . "These have been fitted with an initial bonding fillet of putty consisting of epoxy + milled glass + chopped strands + silica. Once that fillet has cured I will be glassing the tubes to the top of the cockpit sole, the underside of the cockpit, the inside of the hull, and the outside of the hull. These are *not* cross-connected, each one goes straight down. The fwd ones shown here <http://www.anzam.com/images/fuji/project/work_begins/forward_cockpit_drains .jpg> . "Why not cross-connected ? "Because when you most need the cockpit to drain quickly, the low side drain of a cross- connected system can not drain correctly until the boat is close to upright... "You may not be able to wait that long. A straight-thru system starts draining immediately." Chris, if you need to make a curved pipe, I'd try using either an inflatable or foam plastic (such as a swimming tube) insert which should make ultimate removable possible. I'm gratified to know that a few gray cells are still functioning. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"

My 2 cents is that the PCV will crack and your boat will sink. My cockpit drains use this stuff http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=19371&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10111&subdeptNum=10640&classNum=10641 <http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=19371&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10111&subdeptNum=10640&classNum=10641>I left it in there a bit over 50 years and then replaced it with more of the same stuff. Allen On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Stephen Freeman <li… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > > Hello all: I put two new 1 1/2 drains at the forward end of the > cockpit. The pipes go straight down, but the only place to put a > through hull and a valve was in the lockers on the forward end of the > pilot berths port and starboard. As straight as possible is best for > drainage. > I found that they work great because we took a beam wave in to the > cockpit that filled it to the companionway. But it drain in about a > half a minute. > At first I used flexible hose but found that somehow I got a leak it > one hoses just above the water line so I replaced both with PVC pipe. > Steve > >

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: Comment in line..... > > > I vaguely recall Brian Cleverly posting on this very topic (but not for a > Cal 29). As I recall, he built up fiberglass pipes around a form; maybe he > used a cardboard tube wrapped in plastic? Does anyone have an archive on > those posts? I suspect it predated the Yahoo! list by one or two hosts. > > > > …Ah… I found mention of this on his site. Here’s the link: > > > > http://www.anzam.com/images/fuji/project/work_begins/welcome.htm > Thanks....excellent reference........furthermore...good thing I asked this questions. This may sound dumb but I would have thought the strategy would be to exit the water via the transom and additional drain ports added. I would not have thought that exiting the water, under the water line, as this system clearly is, is efficient. Is this the standard on blue water vessels? Remain clueless....so much to learn...;) /ch

Another 2 cents. My cockpit drains are at the aft of the cockpit and the two drains are directly below very much under the water line. In fact, the top of the drains are under the water line when I sail, a real pain but that is another story. While the cockpit drains and the through hulls are lined up almost perfectly, they are not connected that way, they are crossed. The port cockpit drain exits the starboard through hull. It is set up this way to avoid sinking the boat when healing enough to put both under the water line. The idea being that on an extreme heal, when the port cockpit drain is under the water line, the starboard through hull will be out of the water. Not everyone does it this way and I am not actually sure how important it is. Most of the L-36s do it that way but not all. You might find my project interesting but in any even there are some pictures posted that make it clear. http://l-36.com/drain.php <http://l-36.com/drain.php>Allen On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 11:28 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: > > Comment in line..... > > > >> >> >> I vaguely recall Brian Cleverly posting on this very topic (but not for a >> Cal 29). As I recall, he built up fiberglass pipes around a form; maybe he >> used a cardboard tube wrapped in plastic? Does anyone have an archive on >> those posts? I suspect it predated the Yahoo! list by one or two hosts. >> >> >> >> …Ah… I found mention of this on his site. Here’s the link: >> >> >> >> http://www.anzam.com/images/fuji/project/work_begins/welcome.htm >> > > Thanks....excellent reference........furthermore...good thing I asked this > questions. This may sound dumb but I would have thought the strategy would > be to exit the water via the transom and additional drain ports added. I > would not have thought that exiting the water, under the water line, as this > system clearly is, is efficient. Is this the standard on blue water vessels? > > > Remain clueless....so much to learn...;) > > > /ch > > >

Stephan, I like your additional drain scheme, but am worried that you are using PVC instead of hose. If your hose was leaking, it was because of a bad hose-clamp or such. The hull flexes as you sail (or motor) and the PVC will eventually degrade and split or crack. You could wrap it with fiberglass and make it more crack-proof, but then you have a rigid connection into the hull which will make a hard spot. I would highly recommend that you go back to the hose and just make sure you use high quality clamps and double them. If you use really heavy hose and cut the hose a bit long, you will have a bit of tension to help keep it in place as well. Wilkie On Jan 2, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Stephen Freeman wrote: > Hello all: I put two new 1 1/2 drains at the forward end of the > cockpit. The pipes go straight down, but the only place to put a > through hull and a valve was in the lockers on the forward end of the > pilot berths port and starboard. As straight as possible is best for > drainage. > I found that they work great because we took a beam wave in to the > cockpit that filled it to the companionway. But it drain in about a > half a minute. > At first I used flexible hose but found that somehow I got a leak it > one hoses just above the water line so I replaced both with PVC pipe. > Steve > >

Alfred, I saw those "turbo-drains" installed in Brian's boat. They were hell for stout and well thought out as is Brian's way of doing everything. They were also located aft very near the transom where there is minimal, or close to zero, flex in the hull. I think Brian might well have been reluctant to install them at the front of the cockpit where there is more hull to flex. That's my feeling, certainly. They use hose for a reason. Wilkie On Jan 2, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: > > Chris inquired: > > > > “However I would like to add an additional port and starboard drain at > the front of the cockpit to increase the flow rate and was wondering > what is the best way to both construct and route these additional > drains.” > > > > I vaguely recall Brian Cleverly posting on this very topic (but not > for a Cal 29). As I recall, he built up fiberglass pipes around a > form; maybe he used a cardboard tube wrapped in plastic? Does anyone > have an archive on those posts? I suspect it predated the Yahoo! > list by one or two hosts. > > > > …Ah… I found mention of this on his site. Here’s the link: > > > > http://www.anzam.com/images/fuji/project/work_begins/welcome.htm > > > > “I made the tubes from 3 alternating layers each of 9oz cloth and > 18oz Biaxial with mat. > Spiral wound on a form, each layer laid in opposite direction to the > preceeding one and have a wall thickness of 1/4". Pix are here, and > here. > > “These have been fitted with an initial bonding fillet of putty > consisting of epoxy + milled glass + chopped strands + silica. Once > that fillet has cured I will be glassing the tubes to the top of the > cockpit sole, the underside of the cockpit, the inside of the hull, > and the outside of the hull. > These are *not* cross-connected, each one goes straight down. The > fwd ones shown here. > > “Why not cross-connected ? > > > “Because when you most need the cockpit to drain quickly, the low > side drain of a cross- > connected system can not drain correctly until the boat is close to > upright... > > > “You may not be able to wait that long. A straight-thru system > starts draining immediately.” > > > > Chris, if you need to make a curved pipe, I’d try using either an > inflatable or foam plastic (such as a swimming tube) insert which > should make ultimate removable possible. > > > > I’m gratified to know that a few gray cells are still functioning. > > > > Alfred Poor > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” > > > > >