cal 29 cockpit options

Greets: Since I have a new Beta Marine engine on order from Joe (the deal was excellent...thanks Joe) this now presents some options for the cockpit. The old A-4 engine panel's trailing edge is located approx some 25-30 inches from the gangway entrance. (not sure exactly as the boat is currently in NJ) This will be coming out as the new the new panel will be located close to the helm. So there are some options considering the size and location of the hole created by the panel which is rather large: see: http://picasaweb.google.com/115018261910915471633/RockHall#5405572022542334610 Option one: glass over the hole and do a standard gelcoat repair with reinforcement on the backside as its rather large cavity to fill. Option two: build a storage area out of fibre glass at the same level as the seats and terminating at the trailing edge of the panel where I would drop in 2 drainage holes on the cockpit floor as discussed in an early thread. [The existing drainage hole will be enlarged to the max allowable size based on how much glass is back there, probably 2" or more] Option three: use option two and move the traveler to the trailing edge. (here Im not sure on the effect on the boom, as its currently rigged to have the main sheet at the end....stress & tension issues of mid boom sheeting on the original boom) My concern is this, if I were to use the area as additional tankage for water or diesel, how would that effect the dynamics of the boat in terms of balance. The kubota is some 150 lbs lighter then the old A-4. An appropriate tank size would be close to 25 gallons so 250 lbs of weight max. The advantage would be the size reduction in the cockpit which is fine and desired for a vessel that being prepared for "coastal long distance cruising mostly single handed" and potential easier handling and stress reduction on/of the boom if I went to mid-boom sheeting. Many thanks for your opinions. Best regards -- /ch

What I'm considering is something like this. See attachment. 1. expanding the rear drain to 2" or greater if allowable 2. adding bridge deck 3. addition of 2" drains in front of the bridge deck 4. addition of interior and exterior grab rails. 5. adding a reverse tang to the booms end to provide greater clearance around the helm and main sheet, currently approx 1" off the compass. The intend here is to reduce the cockpit size and allow faster drainage. Mid boom sheeting turns out to be too dangerous on these older extrusions so that has been abandoned in favor of adding a reverse tang (not sure what its called) to the end of the boom to add needed clearances to install a desired binnacle at some point. Much later...

adding grab rails on both sides would be a very big help, you could even through bolt to match holes so there is a more secure arrangement, not to pull out. I would add a backing plate to one side if you put it to the side of the wood trim which would split under such stress. Also, after much sailing with our 29, a grab rail that starts on the left side of the sink and goes to the minibulkhead that the stove gimbals on is to me extremely important. The stock ss grab bars for bathroom, etc. stands off nicely to grab when landing in the salon, but needs to have a reverse turn added (cut the tubing before the first turn, have a 90 welded in between the cut off piece and the main piece, and bolt the original end into the side of the bulkhead outside of the stove.) The bulkheads are always being grabbed when people go below, and the stove flops when they lean on it and the table can spin, so this is very secure, and easy to grab. I wish we (cal boaters) could find a welder who could make these for us in a quantity so they would be affordable. They charge by the hour, so making one is expensive but multiples would instantly bring down the cost. (stainless work costs more). There is a welder in Redwood City who does SS and we have to talk to him about a new fuel tank for our 36, we can ask if there is an interest. (being able to buy these bars in a quantity could save over the Home Depot prices too). On the subject of grab rails, a rail that would bolt to both bulkheads above the head but not in line with your own head would give another strong grip and probably keep your head compartment cleaner, as well as give you a place to hang things temporarily for drying. Next, check out those flaps that can go on the outside of the cockpit drain, but try to get one bigger than the hole so it cleans easier. It really keeps the water from entering, a big problem when under power and the stern gets down, or following seas. Works great in the SF Bay for us. Our traveler (tiller midboom sheeting) makes a very dangerous step in or out of the cockpit to salon. There is about 4 inches space, enough to catch your toe or you dog's leg and really hurt. A bridge type filler in there would be nice. but the endboom sheeting means traveler on stern, so open step at salon, lots safer. If you're talking running a sheet from boom to traveler then back up to boom, forward to cabin roof, then back to cockpit, we have that on our tillered 36, but I can't stand the miles of sheeting involved, and I'm sure it slows everything down. There is nice Harken traveler stuff that turns it all around and back to you which would be great for the wheel. For the midboom it's also good, takes the traveler sheet off the side of the cockpit and gives the tiller driver an inline shot and keeps the stresses low and all on the seating surface. You can't always get up on that rail to get a good pull up for the traveler. Helen From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: CAL <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 10:03:31 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: cal 29 cockpit options [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from chris123 included below] What I'm considering is something like this. See attachment. 1. expanding the rear drain to 2" or greater if allowable 2. adding bridge deck 3. addition of 2" drains in front of the bridge deck 4. addition of interior and exterior grab rails. 5. adding a reverse tang to the booms end to provide greater clearance around the helm and main sheet, currently approx 1" off the compass. The intend here is to reduce the cockpit size and allow faster drainage. Mid boom sheeting turns out to be too dangerous on these older extrusions so that has been abandoned in favor of adding a reverse tang (not sure what its called) to the end of the boom to add needed clearances to install a desired binnacle at some point. Much later...

Thanks for your comments. Responses in line: On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > adding grab rails on both sides would be a very big help, you could even > through bolt to match holes so there is a more secure arrangement, not to > pull out. I would add a backing plate to one side if you put it to the side > of the wood trim which would split under such stress. > That would be the idea to have matched sets on either side of the bulkhead. One set per side, bolted through so they fasten to each other. The teak trim is too weak per se to handle the strain. Further the teak will get a snap fastened cloth gangway cover eventually that is zippered (on on the outside and one on the inside) so the teak is already in use...:) > Also, after much sailing with our 29, a grab rail that starts on the left > side of the sink and goes to the minibulkhead that the stove gimbals on is > to me extremely important. > Would agree, especially if you are cooking in a seaway. On the 29-3 the config would be a bit different but it will need some attention as well. Strong and solid grab rails are so important. On the 29-3 there is room to use a heavy canvas belt with clips to hold you in place while you are in the galley. One day I want to install one of those. > The stock ss grab bars for bathroom, etc. stands off nicely to grab when > landing in the salon, but needs to have a reverse turn added (cut the tubing > before the first turn, have a 90 welded in between the cut off piece and the > main piece, and bolt the original end into the side of the bulkhead outside > of the stove.) > Interesting. There is nothing of the sort in my vessel. Good points, will have to look into it. > The bulkheads are always being grabbed when people go below, and the stove > flops when they lean on it and the table can spin, so this is very secure, > and easy to grab. > Again different config, the 29-3 table is bulk head mounted...but can you not lock down these components in some fashion to secure them while underway? > I wish we (cal boaters) could find a welder who could make these for us in > a quantity so they would be affordable. They charge by the hour, so making > one is expensive but multiples would instantly bring down the cost. > (stainless work costs more). There is a welder in Redwood City who does SS > and we have to talk to him about a new fuel tank for our 36, we can ask if > there is an interest. (being able to buy these bars in a quantity could save > over the Home Depot prices too). On the subject of grab rails, a rail that > would bolt to both bulkheads above the head but not in line with your own > head would give another strong grip and probably keep your head compartment > cleaner, as well as give you a place to hang things temporarily for drying. > The location for grab rails in the head would have to be on the forward bulk head to the V birth as the sliding door get in the way if you use the main bulkhead. > > Next, check out those flaps that can go on the outside of the cockpit > drain, but try to get one bigger than the hole so it cleans easier. It > really keeps the water from entering, a big problem when under power and the > stern gets down, or following seas. > Ya know that's funny everyone says that, but I have not experienced that. In fact the opposite. Either the water line is wrong or something is wrong in the balance of the boat, or perhaps its an optical illusion. But to me she seems to sit un-level when empty with the nose down. No anchors in the front. Secondly, I've spend days, many days motoring this vessel and yet to have any issue with water coming in the rear drain, which the drawing indicates as 11/2, Fill follow your suggestion however once its enlarged to 2" or more. > Works great in the SF Bay for us. > Our traveler (tiller midboom sheeting) makes a very dangerous step in or > out of the cockpit to salon. There is about 4 inches space, enough to catch > your toe or you dog's leg and really hurt. A bridge type filler in there > would be nice. but the endboom sheeting means traveler on stern, so open > step at salon, lots safer. > Yes I was thinking initially that mid boom sheeting would be the way to go and place the track towards the helm end of the bridge deck. Then I started reading up on it and its strongly not recommended even by some manufacturers for extrusions that are of the period that we have. Even a triple pulley system (read expensive) does not properly balance out the various strains and stresses on the boom. Many report bend or broken sections in various forums. The need was to move the main sheet angle forward as its currently placement is to close to the top of the compass to slip a binnacle support in there. I think Ive found a way to relocate the main sheet at the boom end by using a reverse tang or whatever its called and bolting it on about three inches from the back of the boom. This minor adjustment will give me more then enough space to someday slip a binnacle support in there. > If you're talking running a sheet from boom to traveler then back up to > boom, forward to cabin roof, then back to cockpit, we have that on our > tillered 36, but I can't stand the miles of sheeting involved, and I'm sure > it slows everything down. > That's pretty close to what I was looking at, mainly a three point harness on the boom. You can lead the line anywhere after that. The forums I read however tend to dissuade you from doing that: bend or broken booms are far too frequent on older boats. > There is nice Harken traveler stuff that turns it all around and back to > you which would be great for the wheel. For the midboom it's also good, > takes the traveler sheet off the side of the cockpit and gives the tiller > driver an inline shot and keeps the stresses low and all on the seating > surface. You can't always get up on that rail to get a good pull up for the > traveler. > Thanks for the observations and comments Helen, much appreciated. /ch

Chris, Helen replaced our old fiberglass ?? moulded gauge cluster with one made out of plexly (smoked colored) which I really like ,should our A 4 go to A boom.. you can see flames behind the gauges !! and when checking eng oil and minor service this all most clear panel lets the LIGHT in !! I would reccomed putting a clear peace of of plexly glass over the hole ... you can latter do glass work if you don't like the look but DO NOT get too many projects going with you REPOWER!! you can take your new pannel and temperlly mount on the plexly then "TEST" sail it for a season or 2 then mount permatelly in the "CORRECT" spot .... donot worry about the 150 lbs differance.. I doubt if you"ll notice it ...(you could away get 125 lbs 1st Mate for balance) or add 1 8D battery to make up differance ...EDWARD "Noah's Kid" Cal-29 From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: CAL <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 6:21:49 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] cal 29 cockpit options Greets: Since I have a new Beta Marine engine on order from Joe (the deal was excellent...thanks Joe) this now presents some options for the cockpit. The old A-4 engine panel's trailing edge is located approx some 25-30 inches from the gangway entrance. (not sure exactly as the boat is currently in NJ) This will be coming out as the new the new panel will be located close to the helm. So there are some options considering the size and location of the hole created by the panel which is rather large: see: http://picasaweb.google.com/115018261910915471633/RockHall#5405572022542334610 Option one: glass over the hole and do a standard gelcoat repair with reinforcement on the backside as its rather large cavity to fill. Option two: build a storage area out of fibre glass at the same level as the seats and terminating at the trailing edge of the panel where I would drop in 2 drainage holes on the cockpit floor as discussed in an early thread. [The existing drainage hole will be enlarged to the max allowable size based on how much glass is back there, probably 2" or more] Option three: use option two and move the traveler to the trailing edge. (here Im not sure on the effect on the boom, as its currently rigged to have the main sheet at the end....stress & tension issues of mid boom sheeting on the original boom) My concern is this, if I were to use the area as additional tankage for water or diesel, how would that effect the dynamics of the boat in terms of balance. The kubota is some 150 lbs lighter then the old A-4. An appropriate tank size would be close to 25 gallons so 250 lbs of weight max. The advantage would be the size reduction in the cockpit which is fine and desired for a vessel that being prepared for "coastal long distance cruising mostly single handed" and potential easier handling and stress reduction on/of the boom if I went to mid-boom sheeting. Many thanks for your opinions. Best regards -- /ch

Thanks for the advise. That solves an interesting problem as a suitable field fix. I want to get out of NJ as soon as I can. No-see'ums are worse then flies there and the worst Ive ever experienced. Rates are outstanding for some reason...:) The bridge deck and additional drains are a solution to a different problem altogether, cockpit reduction and extra tankage for off-shore work, when and if this happens. Those are summer projects once I get the boat home. The objective is to get her home ASAP. The one item that will be addressed in Cohansey is the original drain port will be expanded (cored out) from 1.5" to however large I can drill it based on inspection of how far back the solid glass goes. /ch On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > Chris, Helen replaced our old fiberglass ?? moulded gauge cluster with one > made out of plexly (smoked colored) which I really like , >

How would the Cal 29 fair with repeated cockpit flooing due to heavy following seas to waves over bow, with a cutout transom to drain cockpit? Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cal 29 cockpit options Thanks for the advise. That solves an interesting problem as a suitable field fix. I want to get out of NJ as soon as I can. No-see'ums are worse then flies there and the worst Ive ever experienced. Rates are outstanding for some reason...:) The bridge deck and additional drains are a solution to a different problem altogether, cockpit reduction and extra tankage for off-shore work, when and if this happens. Those are summer projects once I get the boat home. The objective is to get her home ASAP. The one item that will be addressed in Cohansey is the original drain port will be expanded (cored out) from 1.5" to however large I can drill it based on inspection of how far back the solid glass goes. /ch On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: Chris, Helen replaced our old fiberglass ?? moulded gauge cluster with one made out of plexly (smoked colored) which I really like , __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5776 (20110110) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5776 (20110110) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com