29 ground tackle.

Greets: A while back we discussed various options on how to configure a single or double anchor setup on the 29 as the current setup has the chocks and cleats offset to either port or starboard necessitating a bridle of some kind to keep the rode in from of the boat. Secondly when carrying dual anchors, it would be nice to have dual rollers. Looking at various boats, and setups I think I can across an acceptable solution that could work. Its simple and you could build it yourself Its a stock design on the older CS27's. Regards /ch -- /ch

Lets not forget two chain lockers and all that extra weight and decreased performance. I have one heavy duty anchor and roller on the bow that feeds the chain locker and when not cruising to an overnight anchorage, it goes into the dock box. There are however, two other anchors and a grapple under the port settee. All ready for emergency drop or use. Mark Cal 2-29 ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: CAL Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:01 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from chris123 included below] Greets: A while back we discussed various options on how to configure a single or double anchor setup on the 29 as the current setup has the chocks and cleats offset to either port or starboard necessitating a bridle of some kind to keep the rode in from of the boat. Secondly when carrying dual anchors, it would be nice to have dual rollers. Looking at various boats, and setups I think I can across an acceptable solution that could work. Its simple and you could build it yourself Its a stock design on the older CS27's. Regards /ch -- /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5809 (20110122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5809 (20110122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

I don't race and the boat is being setup for long distance cruising (6 months at a time) so weight is really not a factor in terms of speed. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere fast. The only issue I'm concerned about is that I have read that the 29 has a tendency to hobby horse if its not balanced properly. There is an advantage however to have one anchor at ready when you are single handing a vessel. I doubt very much if I would carry two on the bow as the ground does not vary that much from one anchorage to another. When it does, you can tell on the anchor set and conversely from the charts ahead of time. Its just difficult to find an appropriate location to have the roller mounted so she faces forward, not on an angle resulting in excess chaffing, or the need to configure a bridle. At present the inventory includes a 35lbs CQR which is my storm anchor, and a 25lb Bruce clone, both on 20 feet of chain. At some point I will need to pick up an appropriate sized claw type anchor. Lunch hook in the port rear locker, 10lb Bruce clone. Its not a final design by any means. Its simply one that I came across tonight that looked rather simple to implement and does not make the boat look gross...:) The fore stay in the middle, and the chocks to one the side limits greatly the setup. If you did got to an anchor roller, then the next step is to a install a central forward cleat that is well supported. As you know, the two bow cleats are not, and mine are showing stress cracks from taking a pounding last winter thanks to all the gales we went through tied to the mooring poles, lines doubled up. So these need to be address as well, but that's already been discussed in a previous thread. Would be very interested in hearing how you mounted your roller and chaffing experiences. /ch

The previous owner added the anchor system. In doing so, had to remove the running lights to other location and laid the channel with roller off to the Starboard side of the headstay. A heavy duty sampson post type cleat was installed aft of the opening for the chain locker. It does work well, however it is a bear getting the anchor up and all the rode and chain into the locker by hand. The running lights had been move from deck to mast head tri color. This was not legal for motoring since the steamer light was below....so now I added a pull pit mounted running light and I use the 360 mast head for steamer. The new led bow lights are so strong that I was blinded at the dock and feel in the water...not one drink that 4th of July night. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. I don't race and the boat is being setup for long distance cruising (6 months at a time) so weight is really not a factor in terms of speed. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere fast. The only issue I'm concerned about is that I have read that the 29 has a tendency to hobby horse if its not balanced properly. There is an advantage however to have one anchor at ready when you are single handing a vessel. I doubt very much if I would carry two on the bow as the ground does not vary that much from one anchorage to another. When it does, you can tell on the anchor set and conversely from the charts ahead of time. Its just difficult to find an appropriate location to have the roller mounted so she faces forward, not on an angle resulting in excess chaffing, or the need to configure a bridle. At present the inventory includes a 35lbs CQR which is my storm anchor, and a 25lb Bruce clone, both on 20 feet of chain. At some point I will need to pick up an appropriate sized claw type anchor. Lunch hook in the port rear locker, 10lb Bruce clone. Its not a final design by any means. Its simply one that I came across tonight that looked rather simple to implement and does not make the boat look gross...:) The fore stay in the middle, and the chocks to one the side limits greatly the setup. If you did got to an anchor roller, then the next step is to a install a central forward cleat that is well supported. As you know, the two bow cleats are not, and mine are showing stress cracks from taking a pounding last winter thanks to all the gales we went through tied to the mooring poles, lines doubled up. So these need to be address as well, but that's already been discussed in a previous thread. Would be very interested in hearing how you mounted your roller and chaffing experiences. /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5809 (20110122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5809 (20110122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Comments in line: On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > The previous owner added the anchor system. In doing so, had to remove the running lights to other location yup they are in the way aren't they > > and laid the channel with roller off to the Starboard side of the headstay. Have you noticed any chaffing on the rode as this creates a degree of offset from the bow. That's a concern when at anchor in heavy weather. > > A heavy duty sampson post type cleat was installed aft of the opening for the chain locker. Yes that what I was thinking. Is it anchored deep in the chain locker to the base of the bow or by means of a backing plate. > It does work well, however it is a bear getting the anchor up and all the rode and chain into the locker by hand. It is isn't it...:) > > The running lights had been move from deck to mast head tri color. This was not legal for motoring since the steamer light was below....so now I added a pull pit mounted running light and I use the 360 mast head for steamer. The new led bow lights are so strong that I was blinded at the dock and feel in the water...not one drink that 4th of July night. That's what I was considering as well. Replacing the steaming light with an LED as well to reduce power consumption. Was wondering what model of lights and LED's did you use. The one thing about the pic I send through is that it does not look strong enough for side vector forces. I think it needs a brace in line with the bow and tied to the bow about two or three feet down from the peak in order to take the rotational forces exerted on the rollers, in a good blow. Thanks for your comments.

Cruising on the West Coast may not apply to your needs but in the 70's & 80's I cruised a 7 ton 35' S&S Pilot. I would often anchor with a 13lb danforth 3/8 line 1/4" chain from the cockpit. I could then run ahead if I chose to do so and set a 22lb danforth from the bow on 1/2 nylon with 40'chain. Most times the 13lb could be shifted to the bow which was adequate. I also carried a 40lb danforth which stayed in the starboard seat locker for 17 years with only occasional uses. I could anchor from the bow and stern while I was aboard but as a danforth will not reset itself, I would shift both rodes to the bow if I left the boat. When we took Alaska Eagle to the Hawaiian Islands in 1984 we used the halliards to recover our anchors. We had no windlass as she was a former Whitbreads Racer. The windlass was installed later. My Best, Mike From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 22, 2011 6:13:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. I don't race and the boat is being setup for long distance cruising (6 months at a time) so weight is really not a factor in terms of speed. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere fast. The only issue I'm concerned about is that I have read that the 29 has a tendency to hobby horse if its not balanced properly. There is an advantage however to have one anchor at ready when you are single handing a vessel. I doubt very much if I would carry two on the bow as the ground does not vary that much from one anchorage to another. When it does, you can tell on the anchor set and conversely from the charts ahead of time. Its just difficult to find an appropriate location to have the roller mounted so she faces forward, not on an angle resulting in excess chaffing, or the need to configure a bridle. At present the inventory includes a 35lbs CQR which is my storm anchor, and a 25lb Bruce clone, both on 20 feet of chain. At some point I will need to pick up an appropriate sized claw type anchor. Lunch hook in the port rear locker, 10lb Bruce clone. Its not a final design by any means. Its simply one that I came across tonight that looked rather simple to implement and does not make the boat look gross...:) The fore stay in the middle, and the chocks to one the side limits greatly the setup. If you did got to an anchor roller, then the next step is to a install a central forward cleat that is well supported. As you know, the two bow cleats are not, and mine are showing stress cracks from taking a pounding last winter thanks to all the gales we went through tied to the mooring poles, lines doubled up. So these need to be address as well, but that's already been discussed in a previous thread. Would be very interested in hearing how you mounted your roller and chaffing experiences. /ch

Mike ... Could you describe how the Alaska Eagle crew use the halyards to assist anchor retrieval ? Fin. From: mike farrell<mailto:ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. Cruising on the West Coast may not apply to your needs but in the 70's & 80's I cruised a 7 ton 35' S&S Pilot. I would often anchor with a 13lb danforth 3/8 line 1/4" chain from the cockpit. I could then run ahead if I chose to do so and set a 22lb danforth from the bow on 1/2 nylon with 40'chain. Most times the 13lb could be shifted to the bow which was adequate. I also carried a 40lb danforth which stayed in the starboard seat locker for 17 years with only occasional uses. I could anchor from the bow and stern while I was aboard but as a danforth will not reset itself, I would shift both rodes to the bow if I left the boat. When we took Alaska Eagle to the Hawaiian Islands in 1984 we used the halliards to recover our anchors. We had no windlass as she was a former Whitbreads Racer. The windlass was installed later. My Best, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 22, 2011 6:13:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. I don't race and the boat is being setup for long distance cruising (6 months at a time) so weight is really not a factor in terms of speed. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere fast. The only issue I'm concerned about is that I have read that the 29 has a tendency to hobby horse if its not balanced properly. There is an advantage however to have one anchor at ready when you are single handing a vessel. I doubt very much if I would carry two on the bow as the ground does not vary that much from one anchorage to another. When it does, you can tell on the anchor set and conversely from the charts ahead of time. Its just difficult to find an appropriate location to have the roller mounted so she faces forward, not on an angle resulting in excess chaffing, or the need to configure a bridle. At present the inventory includes a 35lbs CQR which is my storm anchor, and a 25lb Bruce clone, both on 20 feet of chain. At some point I will need to pick up an appropriate sized claw type anchor. Lunch hook in the port rear locker, 10lb Bruce clone. Its not a final design by any means. Its simply one that I came across tonight that looked rather simple to implement and does not make the boat look gross...:) The fore stay in the middle, and the chocks to one the side limits greatly the setup. If you did got to an anchor roller, then the next step is to a install a central forward cleat that is well supported. As you know, the two bow cleats are not, and mine are showing stress cracks from taking a pounding last winter thanks to all the gales we went through tied to the mooring poles, lines doubled up. So these need to be address as well, but that's already been discussed in a previous thread. Would be very interested in hearing how you mounted your roller and chaffing experiences. /ch

That an interesting technique Mike, that I will have to give a try. The issue with anchoring on my boat is two fold when it comes to anchoring, and I think they would be common to all, pending on where you cruise. 1. The chocks are not aligned with the bow so you need a bridle to align the rode which results in a certain degree of chaffing and the boat swings all over the place. I have an anchor sail but its only effective if the tidal flow and winds are in the same direction..:) In most tidal estuaries, this is not the case, so the sail stays in it bag. 2. Tidal flows tend to swing the boat which is normal. She tends to skate on the water however due to her hull lines...and the offset placement of the rode...back and forth all day long. Does not make for restful night with the anchor alarm going off far too often, but that one can be solved easily. Misc issues; 3. All the cleats have to be re-inforced on the boat as discussed in a previous thread. Just screws, no backing plates. Just nuts with minimal washers. 4. At 25lbs anchor and 20 ft of chain, its about all I can pull with a reasonable degree of safety. How do you use a halyard to retrieve the anchor? That would be interesting. The anchor inventory that came with the boat was a 20-25(I forget exactly which) danforth type, a 10-15lbs danforth lunch hook and then I lucked out and got a 35lbs original CQR off Ebay for $.100. inclusive of shipping. The older gentlemen who sold me the anchor did such an incredible job crating the thing, I took pictures of it, as it must have taken him half a day to build the wooden jig. Nice man. /ch

Hi Fin, We would anchor with lots of chain and 3/4" nylon, recovering the nylon was no problem, we would motor slowly ahead or alternately lead the rode thru snatch blocks to the sheet winch drums. When the chain reached the stem, we attached a halliard to it and ground it up, then attached another halliard ,took up the load, released the former and repeated the process until we had the anchor ready to be brought aboard. We had 13 aboard,crew. My Best, Mike From: Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 6:33:36 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle ... Mike Farrell Mike ... Could you describe how the Alaska Eagle crew use the halyards to assist anchor retrieval ? Fin. From: mike farrell >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:22 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. > > > Cruising on the West Coast may not apply to your needs but in the 70's & >80's I cruised a 7 ton 35' S&S Pilot. I would often anchor with a 13lb danforth >3/8 line 1/4" chain from the cockpit. I could then run ahead if I chose to do >so and set a 22lb danforth from the bow on 1/2 nylon with 40'chain. Most times >the 13lb could be shifted to the bow which was adequate. I also carried a 40lb >danforth which stayed in the starboard seat locker for 17 years with >only occasional uses. I could anchor from the bow and stern while I was aboard >but as a danforth will not reset itself, I would shift both rodes to the bow >if I left the boat. > When we took Alaska Eagle to the Hawaiian Islands in 1984 we used the >halliards to recover our anchors. We had no windlass as she was a former >Whitbreads Racer. The windlass was installed later. > > My Best, Mike > > > From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sat, January 22, 2011 6:13:51 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. > > > >I don't race and the boat is being setup for long distance cruising (6 months at >a time) so weight is really not a factor in terms of speed. I'm not in a hurry >to get anywhere fast. > > > >The only issue I'm concerned about is that I have read that the 29 has a >tendency to hobby horse if its not balanced properly. There is an advantage >however to have one anchor at ready when you are single handing a vessel. I >doubt very much if I would carry two on the bow as the ground does not vary that >much from one anchorage to another. When it does, you can tell on the anchor set >and conversely from the charts ahead of time. Its just difficult to find an >appropriate location to have the roller mounted so she faces forward, not on an >angle resulting in excess chaffing, or the need to configure a bridle. > > >At present the inventory includes a 35lbs CQR which is my storm anchor, and a >25lb Bruce clone, both on 20 feet of chain. At some point I will need to pick up >an appropriate sized claw type anchor. Lunch hook in the port rear locker, 10lb >Bruce clone. > > >Its not a final design by any means. Its simply one that I came across tonight >that looked rather simple to implement and does not make the boat look >gross...:) The fore stay in the middle, and the chocks to one the side limits >greatly the setup. If you did got to an anchor roller, then the next step is to >a install a central forward cleat that is well supported. As you know, the two >bow cleats are not, and mine are showing stress cracks from taking a pounding >last winter thanks to all the gales we went through tied to the mooring poles, >lines doubled up. So these need to be address as well, but that's already been >discussed in a previous thread. > > >Would be very interested in hearing how you mounted your roller and chaffing >experiences. > > >/ch > > > > > >

Hi Chris, My 7 tonner had a massive stemhead fitting with fairleads P&S. I would use the cockpit winch to recover the line if need be. I had a chain hook on 3/8 Dacron line that I could hook on the chain and lead to the sheet winch to recover the chain and anchor. I did not want to add the weight or bother on the bow or an electric/ manual windlass. My Best, Mike From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 6:42:18 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. That an interesting technique Mike, that I will have to give a try. The issue with anchoring on my boat is two fold when it comes to anchoring, and I think they would be common to all, pending on where you cruise. 1. The chocks are not aligned with the bow so you need a bridle to align the rode which results in a certain degree of chaffing and the boat swings all over the place. I have an anchor sail but its only effective if the tidal flow and winds are in the same direction..:) In most tidal estuaries, this is not the case, so the sail stays in it bag. 2. Tidal flows tend to swing the boat which is normal. She tends to skate on the water however due to her hull lines...and the offset placement of the rode...back and forth all day long. Does not make for restful night with the anchor alarm going off far too often, but that one can be solved easily. Misc issues; 3. All the cleats have to be re-inforced on the boat as discussed in a previous thread. Just screws, no backing plates. Just nuts with minimal washers. 4. At 25lbs anchor and 20 ft of chain, its about all I can pull with a reasonable degree of safety. How do you use a halyard to retrieve the anchor? That would be interesting. The anchor inventory that came with the boat was a 20-25(I forget exactly which) danforth type, a 10-15lbs danforth lunch hook and then I lucked out and got a 35lbs original CQR off Ebay for $.100. inclusive of shipping. The older gentlemen who sold me the anchor did such an incredible job crating the thing, I took pictures of it, as it must have taken him half a day to build the wooden jig. Nice man. /ch

That interesting and can be adapted for single handers. Cool. Thanks Mike. /ch

No chaffing on my system and the rollers get you closer to center than tying off directly to the stock cleats. No issue. You can always take a foot of rubber hose and split it and wrap it around the rode at the roller for chaffing gear. Then remove when you pull anchor. In heavy weather your going to swing around some due to wind, surface current and swell differential. Just getting an anchor roller with a heavy bow cleat at center is a major improvement. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 29 ground tackle. Comments in line: On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > The previous owner added the anchor system. In doing so, had to remove the running lights to other location yup they are in the way aren't they > > and laid the channel with roller off to the Starboard side of the headstay. Have you noticed any chaffing on the rode as this creates a degree of offset from the bow. That's a concern when at anchor in heavy weather. > > A heavy duty sampson post type cleat was installed aft of the opening for the chain locker. Yes that what I was thinking. Is it anchored deep in the chain locker to the base of the bow or by means of a backing plate. > It does work well, however it is a bear getting the anchor up and all the rode and chain into the locker by hand. It is isn't it...:) > > The running lights had been move from deck to mast head tri color. This was not legal for motoring since the steamer light was below....so now I added a pull pit mounted running light and I use the 360 mast head for steamer. The new led bow lights are so strong that I was blinded at the dock and feel in the water...not one drink that 4th of July night. That's what I was considering as well. Replacing the steaming light with an LED as well to reduce power consumption. Was wondering what model of lights and LED's did you use. The one thing about the pic I send through is that it does not look strong enough for side vector forces. I think it needs a brace in line with the bow and tied to the bow about two or three feet down from the peak in order to take the rotational forces exerted on the rollers, in a good blow. Thanks for your comments. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5811 (20110123) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5811 (20110123) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Thanks Mark -- /ch

To conclude this matter, anyone have any good URLs for review on anchor performance. Best regards /ch

On 1/24/2011 11:08 AM, chris123 wrote: > > To conclude this matter, anyone have any good URLs for review on > anchor performance. > Practical Sailor has done a lot of testing at various times. Chris Campbell

Yes they have, but the stuff I found on line only covers sand and hard sand bottom conditions. /ch