Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850

January 27, 2011 Today I gave notice to the Chula Vista Marina in San Diego of my intent to sell my boat, a 1965 Cal 28, Hull Number 82. I really hate to do it, but I am looking at it as a stepping stone towards my eventual purchase of a Cal 40. It may take a while. The boat is priced to sell immediately. She is in the water at the Chula Vista Marina, where I pay $350 per month to keep her. She was being dived regularly every month, up until about four months ago, when I decided I had not taken her out in two years, so there was no need for the bottom cleaning. You may know the website: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 . Here is the boat: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28/P1010037.JPG . photos of the boat and her interior are all over that website. I would prefer she be owned by a Cal boat member. I can also be reached at the locations below. Sincerely, Bruce Stirling -- Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. 602.254.6638 602.460.5631 [Cell] 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] 520-302-5206 [Tucson] br… [at] stirlinglaw.com http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you.

I'm sorry to hear that Bruce. Hopefully the 40 comes sooner than expected. I have a cal 28 parked in the Chula Vista Marina as well.. 1964 hull 41. I haven't seen yours at the marina but it looks great from the pictures. Best of luck with the sale. On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Bruce Stirling <br… [at] stirlinglaw.com>wrote: > > > January 27, 2011 > > Today I gave notice to the Chula Vista Marina in San Diego of my intent to > sell my boat, a 1965 Cal 28, Hull Number 82. I really hate to do it, but I > am looking at it as a stepping stone towards my eventual purchase of a Cal > 40. It may take a while. > > The boat is priced to sell immediately. She is in the water at the Chula > Vista Marina, where I pay $350 per month to keep her. She was being dived > regularly every month, up until about four months ago, when I decided I had > not taken her out in two years, so there was no need for the bottom > cleaning. You may know the website: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 . > Here is the boat: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28/P1010037.JPG . photos > of the boat and her interior are all over that website. I would prefer she > be owned by a Cal boat member. > > I can also be reached at the locations below. > > Sincerely, > > Bruce Stirling > > -- > Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. > 602.254.6638 > 602.460.5631 [Cell] > 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] > 520-302-5206 [Tucson] > br… [at] stirlinglaw.com > http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers > > The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you. > >

Thanks, Adam. Call me stupid, but the depression caught me unaware. I saw pie in the sky and a way to get the 40 by buying and flipping properties in Mexico in Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point), where I originally planned to take the Cal 28. Then the bottom fell out of the market and I must make payment on two properties in Mexico. Some sacrifices had to be made. "Of all sad things of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, it might have been." On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm sorry to hear that Bruce. Hopefully the 40 comes sooner than expected. > > I have a cal 28 parked in the Chula Vista Marina as well.. 1964 hull 41. I > haven't seen yours at the marina but it looks great from the pictures. Best > of luck with the sale. > > > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Bruce Stirling <br… [at] stirlinglaw.com>wrote: > >> >> >> January 27, 2011 >> >> Today I gave notice to the Chula Vista Marina in San Diego of my intent to >> sell my boat, a 1965 Cal 28, Hull Number 82. I really hate to do it, but I >> am looking at it as a stepping stone towards my eventual purchase of a Cal >> 40. It may take a while. >> >> The boat is priced to sell immediately. She is in the water at the Chula >> Vista Marina, where I pay $350 per month to keep her. She was being dived >> regularly every month, up until about four months ago, when I decided I had >> not taken her out in two years, so there was no need for the bottom >> cleaning. You may know the website: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 . >> Here is the boat: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28/P1010037.JPG . photos >> of the boat and her interior are all over that website. I would prefer she >> be owned by a Cal boat member. >> >> I can also be reached at the locations below. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Bruce Stirling >> >> -- >> Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. >> 602.254.6638 >> 602.460.5631 [Cell] >> 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] >> 520-302-5206 [Tucson] >> br… [at] stirlinglaw.com >> http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers >> >> The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and >> confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the >> undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you. >> > > > -- Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. 602.254.6638 602.460.5631 [Cell] 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] 520-302-5206 [Tucson] br… [at] stirlinglaw.com http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you.

Also sad to say these days that the annual slip/mooring fee is more than the cost of the boat. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Stirling Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 5:56 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 Thanks, Adam. Call me stupid, but the depression caught me unaware. I saw pie in the sky and a way to get the 40 by buying and flipping properties in Mexico in Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point), where I originally planned to take the Cal 28. Then the bottom fell out of the market and I must make payment on two properties in Mexico. Some sacrifices had to be made. "Of all sad things of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, it might have been." On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com<mailto:th… [at] gmail.com>> wrote: I'm sorry to hear that Bruce. Hopefully the 40 comes sooner than expected. I have a cal 28 parked in the Chula Vista Marina as well.. 1964 hull 41. I haven't seen yours at the marina but it looks great from the pictures. Best of luck with the sale. On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Bruce Stirling <br… [at] stirlinglaw.com<mailto:br… [at] stirlinglaw.com>> wrote: January 27, 2011 Today I gave notice to the Chula Vista Marina in San Diego of my intent to sell my boat, a 1965 Cal 28, Hull Number 82. I really hate to do it, but I am looking at it as a stepping stone towards my eventual purchase of a Cal 40. It may take a while. The boat is priced to sell immediately. She is in the water at the Chula Vista Marina, where I pay $350 per month to keep her. She was being dived regularly every month, up until about four months ago, when I decided I had not taken her out in two years, so there was no need for the bottom cleaning. You may know the website: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 . Here is the boat: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28/P1010037.JPG . photos of the boat and her interior are all over that website. I would prefer she be owned by a Cal boat member. I can also be reached at the locations below. Sincerely, Bruce Stirling -- Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. 602.254.6638 602.460.5631 [Cell] 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] 520-302-5206 [Tucson] br… [at] stirlinglaw.com<mailto:br… [at] stirlinglaw.com> http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you. -- Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. 602.254.6638 602.460.5631 [Cell] 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] 520-302-5206 [Tucson] br… [at] stirlinglaw.com<mailto:br… [at] stirlinglaw.com> http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you.

Add to that, the number of boats going derelict and being "disposed of". To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:08:21 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 Also sad to say these days that the annual slip/mooring fee is more than the cost of the boat. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Stirling Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 5:56 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 Thanks, Adam. Call me stupid, but the depression caught me unaware. I saw pie in the sky and a way to get the 40 by buying and flipping properties in Mexico in Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point), where I originally planned to take the Cal 28. Then the bottom fell out of the market and I must make payment on two properties in Mexico. Some sacrifices had to be made. "Of all sad things of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, it might have been." On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: I'm sorry to hear that Bruce. Hopefully the 40 comes sooner than expected. I have a cal 28 parked in the Chula Vista Marina as well.. 1964 hull 41. I haven't seen yours at the marina but it looks great from the pictures. Best of luck with the sale. On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Bruce Stirling <br… [at] stirlinglaw.com> wrote: January 27, 2011 Today I gave notice to the Chula Vista Marina in San Diego of my intent to sell my boat, a 1965 Cal 28, Hull Number 82. I really hate to do it, but I am looking at it as a stepping stone towards my eventual purchase of a Cal 40. It may take a while. The boat is priced to sell immediately. She is in the water at the Chula Vista Marina, where I pay $350 per month to keep her. She was being dived regularly every month, up until about four months ago, when I decided I had not taken her out in two years, so there was no need for the bottom cleaning. You may know the website: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 . Here is the boat: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28/P1010037.JPG . photos of the boat and her interior are all over that website. I would prefer she be owned by a Cal boat member. I can also be reached at the locations below. Sincerely, Bruce Stirling -- Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. 602.254.6638 602.460.5631 [Cell] 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] 520-302-5206 [Tucson] br… [at] stirlinglaw.com http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you. -- Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. 602.254.6638 602.460.5631 [Cell] 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] 520-302-5206 [Tucson] br… [at] stirlinglaw.com http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you.

On 1/27/2011 5:48 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > I have a cal 28 parked in the Chula Vista Marina as well.. 1964 hull > 41. I haven't seen yours at the marina OK guys, from my point in the midwest there is much that is puzzling about California living, but how big is this marina, anyway? My other boat lives in a big marina, but I know all the cool boats there. Same here, where we have multiple smaller marinas in a compact area. If there's a Cal 20 within 50 miles, I know it. Chris Campbell

On 1/27/2011 6:08 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Also sad to say these days that the annual slip/mooring fee is more > than the cost of the boat. I wonder how much of the increasing cost can be laid at the feet of a tax-induced distortion. Boats with accommodations can be purchased and treated as second homes, with tax deductions of interest paid on the loan. So, duh, suddenly we have floating condos filling marinas. Bigger is better with vacation homes, right? They don't sail much, but on a nice evening the owner might power out into open water for half an hour to have a look-see and admire the sunset. They have AC and nice microwaves and a 1:1 head:crew ratio. Meanwhile, the guy who just wants to go sailing is competing with the floating vacation home skipper for slip space. Chris Campbell >

To qualify as a second home all you need is a porta potti and a propane stove which consists of a gimbal mounted 1 pound cylinder and a spot to put a pot. CAL 20's easily qualify. John Boyce _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:11 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: Husar, Charlie [USA] Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 On 1/27/2011 6:08 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Also sad to say these days that the annual slip/mooring fee is more than the cost of the boat. I wonder how much of the increasing cost can be laid at the feet of a tax-induced distortion. Boats with accommodations can be purchased and treated as second homes, with tax deductions of interest paid on the loan. So, duh, suddenly we have floating condos filling marinas. Bigger is better with vacation homes, right? They don't sail much, but on a nice evening the owner might power out into open water for half an hour to have a look-see and admire the sunset. They have AC and nice microwaves and a 1:1 head:crew ratio. Meanwhile, the guy who just wants to go sailing is competing with the floating vacation home skipper for slip space. Chris Campbell

And.....you have to spend 14 days (and nights?) aboard each year. Al --- On Fri, 1/28/11, John Boyce <je… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: John Boyce <je… [at] gmail.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 28, 2011, 4:07 PM To qualify as a second home all you need is a porta potti and a propane stove which consists of a gimbal mounted 1 pound cylinder and a spot to put a pot. CAL 20's easily qualify. John Boyce From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:11 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: Husar, Charlie [USA] Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 On 1/27/2011 6:08 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Also sad to say these days that the annual slip/mooring fee is more than the cost of the boat. I wonder how much of the increasing cost can be laid at the feet of a tax-induced distortion. Boats with accommodations can be purchased and treated as second homes, with tax deductions of interest paid on the loan. So, duh, suddenly we have floating condos filling marinas. Bigger is better with vacation homes, right? They don't sail much, but on a nice evening the owner might power out into open water for half an hour to have a look-see and admire the sunset. They have AC and nice microwaves and a 1:1 head:crew ratio. Meanwhile, the guy who just wants to go sailing is competing with the floating vacation home skipper for slip space. Chris Campbell

the sad deal there is if your boat is paid for, and you still pay slip rent and then pay the liveaboard fee if you stay on it and property taxes on it, none of that is deductible. Helen (although in the long run it probably comes out better than paying the interest on that loan). From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 6:10:36 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 On 1/27/2011 6:08 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: >Also sad to say these days that the annual slip/mooring fee is >more than the cost of the boat. I wonder how much of the increasing cost can be laid at the feet of a tax-induced distortion. Boats with accommodations can be purchased and treated as second homes, with tax deductions of interest paid on the loan. So, duh, suddenly we have floating condos filling marinas. Bigger is better with vacation homes, right? They don't sail much, but on a nice evening the owner might power out into open water for half an hour to have a look-see and admire the sunset. They have AC and nice microwaves and a 1:1 head:crew ratio. Meanwhile, the guy who just wants to go sailing is competing with the floating vacation home skipper for slip space. Chris Campbell >

Im lost here, you folks on the west coast have to pay property taxes on live a boards or is that a Bay thing? Best regards /ch

I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html /ch

Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the boat for. Sigh... I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html /ch

Thanks for the heads up Charlie /ch

Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be taxing us all in no time. It's amazing what differences there are in tax laws between different states in the Union; makes one want to throw tea into Boston Harbor all over again (in my case-Hood Canal). I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, WA hasn't been much better. From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the boat for. Sigh... I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html /ch

There is a 30' minimum for liveaboards. But I only pay $16.00 per year to register the boat. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 6:56 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html > > /ch > > -- Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. 602.254.6638 602.460.5631 [Cell] 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] 520-302-5206 [Tucson] br… [at] stirlinglaw.com http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you.

Hellen, Annual slip fee for than cost of the boat? How about 2 month, or even monthly slip fee more than cost of the boat? The other problem is sky high slip fees like we have here in So.Cal. We pay almost double what a slip fee is in Nor Cal. Sssccheeeschh! Jerry --- On Sat, 1/29/11, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 11:25 PM the sad deal there is if your boat is paid for, and you still pay slip rent and then pay the liveaboard fee if you stay on it and property taxes on it, none of that is deductible. Helen (although in the long run it probably comes out better than paying the interest on that loan). From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 6:10:36 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 On 1/27/2011 6:08 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Also sad to say these days that the annual slip/mooring fee is more than the cost of the boat. I wonder how much of the increasing cost can be laid at the feet of a tax-induced distortion. Boats with accommodations can be purchased and treated as second homes, with tax deductions of interest paid on the loan. So, duh, suddenly we have floating condos filling marinas. Bigger is better with vacation homes, right? They don't sail much, but on a nice evening the owner might power out into open water for half an hour to have a look-see and admire the sunset. They have AC and nice microwaves and a 1:1 head:crew ratio. Meanwhile, the guy who just wants to go sailing is competing with the floating vacation home skipper for slip space. Chris Campbell

We pay property tax to the county tax assessor for the county in which the boat is kept. Even if we take the boat any where else the county will expect to be paid. The solution is to show a PAID tax bill from another location to release this liability. I sold a boat, 18 months later Contra Coata Co. sent me a bill I respectly refused to pay. They attached a lien and when I went to refinance my house 10 years later the then expired lien was still in public record. I finally got it removed after 3 trips to Martinez. my best, Mike From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 4:31:56 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 Im lost here, you folks on the west coast have to pay property taxes on live a boards or is that a Bay thing? Best regards /ch

Jerry, We have just this month sold our 29, and we had bought a 36 in Newport Beach last year, were able to stay there at private dock until August, knew $500 mo was a steal, but the owners finally bought a new boat so we had to cruise her up to Norcal. Stopping in Santa Cruz, we were hoping to stay but no 36 foot slips in main(lower) harbor were available, it would have been about about $1 ft/day (transient docking). So, (we live there in a house) we sailed on up to our SF Bay harbor in Redwood City, it's about $7.25 ft/month. (not including any liveaboard if desired). So, we drive about an hour to the boat, but what I was getting at is, unless you are making loan payments on a boat that you want to call your second home, there are no write-offs. Every year at tax time I keep hoping for a change. But, your slip rents are still not deductible, paid for or not. Nor is the unsecured property tax. (If someone proves me wrong, I'd be thrilled). But, you can get right out on the ocean anywhere in Socal, it takes a few hours for us to get to SF and then think about exiting the Gate. It is nice to sail around the bay though, and no end of activities for sailors, so we'll do our best until we plan a big cruise. I am sad about your harbor's loss, especially since they are taking away access to the ocean, I consider this a right to any one in America. Once they get their building built, they'll just swallow up the rest of the land and put gates that they promise to open but either forget to do or use some excuse that those boaters bother "us". How negative I sound. We fought partially successfully to stop a 13 story highrise complex at our harbor, though a smaller one will be going in next door. The San Carlos airport is less than 3 miles from the location. I do my best to encourage people to support RBOC and BoatUS as they fight together to try to protect boater's rights. Helen Note that there will be a glut on the market for smaller boats, thus resale will be terrible, except for those with trailers and a big backyard.(You say that harbor is even cutting down up to 39s, though 36s are legal liveaboards. That small group may find a market). From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 6:17:58 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 Hellen, Annual slip fee for than cost of the boat? How about 2 month, or even monthly slip fee more than cost of the boat? The other problem is sky high slip fees like we have here in So.Cal. We pay almost double what a slip fee is in Nor Cal. Sssccheeeschh! Jerry --- On Sat, 1/29/11, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: >From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 11:25 PM > > > >the sad deal there is if your boat is paid for, and you still pay slip rent and >then pay the liveaboard fee if you stay on it and property taxes on it, none of >that is deductible. Helen (although in the long run it probably comes out better >than paying the interest on that loan). > > > > > > From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Cc: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> >Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 6:10:36 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 > > >On 1/27/2011 6:08 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > >>Also sad to say these days that the annual slip/mooring fee is >>more than the cost of the boat. I wonder how much of the increasing cost can be laid at the feet of a tax-induced distortion. Boats with accommodations can be purchased and treated as second homes, with tax deductions of interest paid on the loan. So, duh, suddenly we have floating condos filling marinas. Bigger is better with vacation homes, right? They don't sail much, but on a nice evening the owner might power out into open water for half an hour to have a look-see and admire the sunset. They have AC and nice microwaves and a 1:1 head:crew ratio. Meanwhile, the guy who just wants to go sailing is competing with the floating vacation home skipper for slip space. Chris Campbell >

Just Stupid. To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 08:56:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html /ch

On 1/31/2011 12:11 AM, Helen Horn wrote: > I am sad about your harbor's loss, especially since they are taking > away access to the ocean, I consider this a right to any one in > America. Once they get their building built, they'll just swallow up > the rest of the land and put gates that they promise to open but > either forget to do or use some excuse that those boaters bother "us". Sometime community leaders have vision. In my community in NW lower Michigan, the Lake Michigan waterfront was mostly industrial after Europeans arrived. First sawmills, then shipping piers, power plants, canning facilities. In the 1930s, one visionary guy realized that our economy depended significantly on tourists, so he conned the city into buying downtown waterfront land for a park and zoo. The city kept on buying and tearing down until it owns pretty much the entire waterfront on the downtown's bay. it's good for the tourists but equally good for people who live here. The idea of public access to the waterfront has been highly popular. There was a bit of a controversy over large fleets of powerboats more or less permanently anchoring offshore by the swimming beaches in the summer. Few of them knew how to secure a vessel properly and periodically a bunch would go ashore in a blow. Worse, most of the boats were just locations for public drunkenness, public peeing, loud stereos, and the usual powerboat behavior. There was public demand for controlling them, which made me a bit nervous since my mooring lies just north of there and the political class didn't seem to distinguish between drunken powerboaters and properly moored craft. Luckily, I'm outside city limits. The positive aspect of the controversy was that the public regards the beaches as its own and objected when they were dominated by a bunch of drunks. Chris Campbell

Don't let my Fellow WA resident alarm you. WA is a very affordable place to keep a sailboat compared to other states. No income tax, high sales tax (8-10% depending on county), no property tax on your boat. I pay $90ish / year to register my Cal 31 with the state and I pay DNR fees through my moorage which all-together is about $350 / month inc. all taxes and fees. We have a high gas tax, that is about it relative to other states and us Sailboat guys do not use much of the stuff. I agree that the state is always looking for more taxes, but I think that is universal these days and not specific to our Govorner (and no, I am not a fan by the way) If you want to say something is high or low, my response will aways be "compared to what?" We are "boating tax affordable" compared to Maryland and many other states. Chris Cal-31 Poulsbo, WA --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@... wrote: > > Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be taxing us all in no time. It's amazing what differences there are in tax laws between different states in the Union; makes one want to throw tea into Boston Harbor all over again (in my case-Hood Canal). > > I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, WA hasn't been much better. > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax > > Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the boat for. Sigh... > > I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. > > Cheers > Charlie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html > > /ch >

Chris... I know you keep your boat on a mooring.... If i wanted too, what would keep me from dropping a mooring someplace and keeping my boat there if I wanted to? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cc… [at] lsnm.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:11:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 On 1/31/2011 12:11 AM, Helen Horn wrote: I am sad about your harbor's loss, especially since they are taking away access to the ocean, I consider this a right to any one in America. Once they get their building built, they'll just swallow up the rest of the land and put gates that they promise to open but either forget to do or use some excuse that those boaters bother "us". Sometime community leaders have vision. In my community in NW lower Michigan, the Lake Michigan waterfront was mostly industrial after Europeans arrived. First sawmills, then shipping piers, power plants, canning facilities. In the 1930s, one visionary guy realized that our economy depended significantly on tourists, so he conned the city into buying downtown waterfront land for a park and zoo. The city kept on buying and tearing down until it owns pretty much the entire waterfront on the downtown's bay. it's good for the tourists but equally good for people who live here. The idea of public access to the waterfront has been highly popular. There was a bit of a controversy over large fleets of powerboats more or less permanently anchoring offshore by the swimming beaches in the summer. Few of them knew how to secure a vessel properly and periodically a bunch would go ashore in a blow. Worse, most of the boats were just locations for public drunkenness, public peeing, loud stereos, and the usual powerboat behavior. There was public demand for controlling them, which made me a bit nervous since my mooring lies just north of there and the political class didn't seem to distinguish between drunken powerboaters and properly moored craft. Luckily, I'm outside city limits. The positive aspect of the controversy was that the public regards the beaches as its own and objected when they were dominated by a bunch of drunks. Chris Campbell

As has been pointed out, the governments get their money in different ways, but they do get their money. Maryland has some balancing items in both the government and the location. - I pay $12 a year in boat registration - Mooring fees for the Annapolis area (when the governments are able to control) are about 1/3 of what you describe - There are places in creeks off the near-by Chesapeake where one can moor for nothing - There are many Ma and Pa marinas/docks on the creeks where one could keep a 31 foot boat (in a real slip) for $2K-$2.5K a year - Even in the bigger, "fancier" marinas (still very small by West Coast standards) fees are probably 1/2 of what the West Coast wants - it has a lot to do with how the shorelines differ Every place involves a combination of factors in the finances involved. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sculler2000 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax Don't let my Fellow WA resident alarm you. WA is a very affordable place to keep a sailboat compared to other states. No income tax, high sales tax (8-10% depending on county), no property tax on your boat. I pay $90ish / year to register my Cal 31 with the state and I pay DNR fees through my moorage which all-together is about $350 / month inc. all taxes and fees. We have a high gas tax, that is about it relative to other states and us Sailboat guys do not use much of the stuff. I agree that the state is always looking for more taxes, but I think that is universal these days and not specific to our Govorner (and no, I am not a fan by the way) If you want to say something is high or low, my response will aways be "compared to what?" We are "boating tax affordable" compared to Maryland and many other states. Chris Cal-31 Poulsbo, WA --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@... wrote: > > Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be taxing us all in no time. It's amazing what differences there are in tax laws between different states in the Union; makes one want to throw tea into Boston Harbor all over again (in my case-Hood Canal). > > I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, WA hasn't been much better. > Sent from my BlackBerry(r) by Boost Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax > > Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the boat for. Sigh... > > I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. > > Cheers > Charlie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of chris123 > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere > $2,850 > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-1 > 6600.html > > /ch > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

On 1/31/2011 11:46 AM, george macon wrote: > > Chris... I know you keep your boat on a mooring.... If i wanted too, > what would keep me from dropping a mooring someplace and keeping my > boat there if I wanted to? > Nothing; it happens all the time. The moorings are unofficial (not Corps of Engineers approved) except for one small area near the yacht club. One big building owner on the waterfront, just past the city limit, actually leased the state bottomland and chases everybody away from that portion. He put out a bunch of moorings to rent and has had very few takers. Periodically there are rumors that our DNR will ticket us all and makes us pull the moorings. It is state-owned bottomland in the Great Lakes. They did it north of here, but there it was a matter of people placing moorings in front of other peoples' homes and then partying all weekend. Where my mooring is, most of the adjacent boats are yacht club members since their official mooring field is so tiny, and I think there's some protection or influence from that. We are in one area because of geography-- there is a state harbor of refuge just north of us, and it affords some protection from north winds & seas. There are township and private marinas associated with the harbor, but they are very pricey and have waiting lists. Those are superior because they are protected from everything except hail. My mooring is superior because it's available & free. Every couple years I get a diver to check out my tackle and I've replaced the chain twice. A good sailor does not let his boat drift onto the shore, especially one with a sweet Cal 20. Chris Campbell

I agree that WA is affordable for keeping a boat tax-wise. Only real issue I have with Mason County is that there are too many residents that live on the waterfront of the canal that illegally place buoys and take liberties with boats that don't belong to them by playing a vessel version of "musical chairs." The EPA in this county has the local marinas in the Hood Canal hand tied over live aboard since none of the marinas have them. Adding further challenge is that the sheriff's office lacks the manpower or education to actually do anything about the lawlessness of a large number of power boaters (and a small percentage of sailors) that will moore or--worse yet--anchor their boats in precarious locations on the canal for more than the 60 day limit to the duration of several years, some of them in areas that are navigable hazards at night time. That's why at first opportunity this spring, I'm moving my own vessel back to Port Orchard, since because of the issues I mentioned, I have suffered several thousand dollars in damages to my own vessel. So boat ownership is inexpensive in WA dependent on location and proximity to tweekers and the local infrastructure that enables them and the drama that ensues around them.. I've lived in WA for 14 years, four of them as a Navy Sailor on the carrier USS Carl Vinson (a flagship with a brand of drama defined and classified as its own--LOL), with four years before that as a Corpsman with the USMC and to this day, I can't believe the drama that has unfolded before me since I moved here to Mason County two years ago. It kills me to say that I've had more issues than I can stomach here to the point that not only am I moving my boat back to Kitsap County, but also my residence and my business. And though I'm sure that I will be privy to drama there to some degree, at least there will be security cameras at the marina I'll be staying in. The price you pay the marina you stay in is the trade off for the difference paid for the damages potentially caused by lawlessness and drama caused by idiots that run a muck! I actually plan to return to PA in a couple of years if things in WA don't start to turn around. I would do it now, but the economy is even worse in PA. I hope I don't sound like a scorned sailor or sea lawyer, but something's got to give. I could write a book on events that have taken place off of North Shore Road in Belfair over the last year alone. What it boils down to is that no matter where you moore, there is going to be someone with his hand out for the state, county or town you happen be in, and the prices will continue to rise as politicians look at your money as their money (and not custodians of) and that is the same old story. I may come off as a bit of an anarchist, but the government is yet another trade-off we all pay for to get minimal protection from some degree of lunacy. Unfortunately a world free of taxes and politicians does not and will never exist. Brian From: "sculler2000" <sc… [at] yahoo.com> Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:20:35 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax Don't let my Fellow WA resident alarm you. WA is a very affordable place to keep a sailboat compared to other states. No income tax, high sales tax (8-10% depending on county), no property tax on your boat. I pay $90ish / year to register my Cal 31 with the state and I pay DNR fees through my moorage which all-together is about $350 / month inc. all taxes and fees. We have a high gas tax, that is about it relative to other states and us Sailboat guys do not use much of the stuff. I agree that the state is always looking for more taxes, but I think that is universal these days and not specific to our Govorner (and no, I am not a fan by the way) If you want to say something is high or low, my response will aways be "compared to what?" We are "boating tax affordable" compared to Maryland and many other states. Chris Cal-31 Poulsbo, WA --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@... wrote: > > Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be taxing us all in no time. It's amazing what differences there are in tax laws between different states in the Union; makes one want to throw tea into Boston Harbor all over again (in my case-Hood Canal). > > I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, WA hasn't been much better. > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax > > Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the boat for. Sigh... > > I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. > > Cheers > Charlie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html > > /ch >

We had a mechanic who worked in my father's car dealership. His home was a farm that was worked by his father and mother. The farm house was in Delaware and the farm property was in Delaware and Maryland. His tax issues were a nightmare and the exact boundary of the state lines within his property was always in dispute no matter what you have heard about the fine work of Mason and Dixon. His property was located just west of my home town of Newark, Delaware and right where the straight line that they were so famous for on the western edge of Delaware was always in dispute! Of course, his trials and tribulations paled in the face of Glen Farms to the north on 896 where the arc of northern Delaware joined the straight line of the boundary of Maryland and Pennsylvania. There were farms there with land in all three states and the exact borders are still in dispute today. No matter how hard you try, you are never certain if your taxes are actually fully paid or not. And, of course, all three states have a radically different approach to how they tax farms and the residences that are connected to them. When we kept our boat on the Chesapeake we were living in New Jersey and the boat was documented in Houston, TX. The State of Maryland wanted to charge us sales tax on the original sales price of our boat, not the current value, unless we could prove that we had paid sales tax in Texas and that the sales tax there was higher than Maryland's! This despite the fact that the boat was then 19 years old! Thank heavens I had saved the original, hand-written receipt from the brokerage in my files. Though they didn't believe the receipt at first, when challenged, they could not prove it wrong, either! We prevailed and paid the $10 registration fee for a documented boat and saved $8000 in the process -- all because of one musty, handwritten receipt we kept in the chart table. Needless to say, that receipt is now stored in a safety deposit box in California! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 9:48:50 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax As has been pointed out, the governments get their money in different ways, but they do get their money. Maryland has some balancing items in both the government and the location. - I pay $12 a year in boat registration - Mooring fees for the Annapolis area (when the governments are able to control) are about 1/3 of what you describe - There are places in creeks off the near-by Chesapeake where one can moor for nothing - There are many Ma and Pa marinas/docks on the creeks where one could keep a 31 foot boat (in a real slip) for $2K-$2.5K a year - Even in the bigger, "fancier" marinas (still very small by West Coast standards) fees are probably 1/2 of what the West Coast wants - it has a lot to do with how the shorelines differ Every place involves a combination of factors in the finances involved. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sculler2000 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax Don't let my Fellow WA resident alarm you. WA is a very affordable place to keep a sailboat compared to other states. No income tax, high sales tax (8-10% depending on county), no property tax on your boat. I pay $90ish / year to register my Cal 31 with the state and I pay DNR fees through my moorage which all-together is about $350 / month inc. all taxes and fees. We have a high gas tax, that is about it relative to other states and us Sailboat guys do not use much of the stuff. I agree that the state is always looking for more taxes, but I think that is universal these days and not specific to our Govorner (and no, I am not a fan by the way) If you want to say something is high or low, my response will aways be "compared to what?" We are "boating tax affordable" compared to Maryland and many other states. Chris Cal-31 Poulsbo, WA --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@... wrote: > > Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be taxing us all in no >time. It's amazing what differences there are in tax laws between different >states in the Union; makes one want to throw tea into Boston Harbor all over >again (in my case-Hood Canal). > > > I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, WA hasn't been >much better. > > Sent from my BlackBerry(r) by Boost Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax > > Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia has a personal >property tax (including boats), and Maryland does not. I think it balances out >depending on what the income tax rate is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state >income tax with a county rider that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 >percent state sales tax. Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one >brings the boat into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales >tax when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if one ones >brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The state decides how much >the boat is worth. For older boats, the number is obscenely higher than what >one could actually sell the boat for. Sigh... > > I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin cruiser to FL every >Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice trip that I took a number of >times. Ports of call like St Augustine (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia >Island, Charleston, Oriental and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping >the boat in FL for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise >tax. > > > Cheers > Charlie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of chris123 > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere > $2,850 > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-1 > 6600.html > > /ch > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

On 1/31/2011 1:48 PM, Donald Dutton wrote: > > > Thank heavens I had saved the original, hand-written receipt from the > brokerage in my files. Though they didn't believe the receipt at > first, when challenged, they could not prove it wrong, either! We > prevailed and paid the $10 registration fee for a documented boat and > saved $8000 in the process -- all because of one musty, handwritten > receipt we kept in the chart table. Always save records. In 1951 my parents bought an automatic washer, a Frigidaire with a porcelain enamel case, a wonderful flumpa-flumpa up and down agitator action and a spin speed that rivaled a centrifuge. Around 1980 the spin bearing failed and it went into the garage to await salvage operations. A couple years later I started taking the motor out and discovered that it had a cool transmission with beautiful machined gears and a pump lubrication system. It was way to pretty to junk so I found parts and I used it for another 5 or 6 years until it developed a lube leak. About 1990 I donated it to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI (we did not discuss the fact the GM made Frigidaire). My mother was able to find the receipt and her original down payment check in her collection of canceled checks. We found the original salesman, living in Florida, who wrote a letter about selling it. I had the instruction and installation books. It helps to save documents. Chris Campbell >

So if I wanted to do this I would be on my own to do so and need to watch my boat, and if people complained I may or may not get a ticket? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cc… [at] lsnm.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:51:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... On 1/31/2011 11:46 AM, george macon wrote: Chris... I know you keep your boat on a mooring.... If i wanted too, what would keep me from dropping a mooring someplace and keeping my boat there if I wanted to? Nothing; it happens all the time. The moorings are unofficial (not Corps of Engineers approved) except for one small area near the yacht club. One big building owner on the waterfront, just past the city limit, actually leased the state bottomland and chases everybody away from that portion. He put out a bunch of moorings to rent and has had very few takers. Periodically there are rumors that our DNR will ticket us all and makes us pull the moorings. It is state-owned bottomland in the Great Lakes. They did it north of here, but there it was a matter of people placing moorings in front of other peoples' homes and then partying all weekend. Where my mooring is, most of the adjacent boats are yacht club members since their official mooring field is so tiny, and I think there's some protection or influence from that. We are in one area because of geography-- there is a state harbor of refuge just north of us, and it affords some protection from north winds & seas. There are township and private marinas associated with the harbor, but they are very pricey and have waiting lists. Those are superior because they are protected from everything except hail. My mooring is superior because it's available & free. Every couple years I get a diver to check out my tackle and I've replaced the chain twice. A good sailor does not let his boat drift onto the shore, especially one with a sweet Cal 20. Chris Campbell

I got a property tax bill for my boat from CA. I sent them ads for comparable sized boats indicating they weren't worth that much and they never sent me another tax bill. Woo Hoo! Jerry --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 11:10 AM On 1/31/2011 1:48 PM, Donald Dutton wrote: Thank heavens I had saved the original, hand-written receipt from the brokerage in my files. Though they didn't believe the receipt at first, when challenged, they could not prove it wrong, either! We prevailed and paid the $10 registration fee for a documented boat and saved $8000 in the process -- all because of one musty, handwritten receipt we kept in the chart table. Always save records. In 1951 my parents bought an automatic washer, a Frigidaire with a porcelain enamel case, a wonderful flumpa-flumpa up and down agitator action and a spin speed that rivaled a centrifuge. Around 1980 the spin bearing failed and it went into the garage to await salvage operations. A couple years later I started taking the motor out and discovered that it had a cool transmission with beautiful machined gears and a pump lubrication system. It was way to pretty to junk so I found parts and I used it for another 5 or 6 years until it developed a lube leak. About 1990 I donated it to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI (we did not discuss the fact the GM made Frigidaire). My mother was able to find the receipt and her original down payment check in her collection of canceled checks. We found the original salesman, living in Florida, who wrote a letter about selling it. I had the instruction and installation books. It helps to save documents. Chris Campbell

I am also interested in this. I would suppose that the rules that govern are specific to area? Does anyone know for San Diego? On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:39 AM, george macon <ge… [at] hotmail.com>wrote: > > > So if I wanted to do this I would be on my own to do so and need to watch > my boat, and if people complained I may or may not get a ticket? > > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: cc… [at] lsnm.org > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:51:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... > > > > On 1/31/2011 11:46 AM, george macon wrote: > > > Chris... I know you keep your boat on a mooring.... If i wanted too, what > would keep me from dropping a mooring someplace and keeping my boat there if > I wanted to? > > > Nothing; it happens all the time. The moorings are unofficial (not Corps of > Engineers approved) except for one small area near the yacht club. One big > building owner on the waterfront, just past the city limit, actually leased > the state bottomland and chases everybody away from that portion. He put > out a bunch of moorings to rent and has had very few takers. Periodically > there are rumors that our DNR will ticket us all and makes us pull the > moorings. It is state-owned bottomland in the Great Lakes. They did it > north of here, but there it was a matter of people placing moorings in front > of other peoples' homes and then partying all weekend. Where my mooring is, > most of the adjacent boats are yacht club members since their official > mooring field is so tiny, and I think there's some protection or influence > from that. We are in one area because of geography-- there is a state > harbor of refuge just north of us, and it affords some protection from north > winds & seas. > > There are township and private marinas associated with the harbor, but they > are very pricey and have waiting lists. Those are superior because they > are protected from everything except hail. My mooring is superior because > it's available & free. Every couple years I get a diver to check out my > tackle and I've replaced the chain twice. A good sailor does not let his > boat drift onto the shore, especially one with a sweet Cal 20. > > Chris Campbell > > > >

On 1/31/2011 2:39 PM, george macon wrote: > > So if I wanted to do this I would be on my own to do so and need to > watch my boat, and if people complained I may or may not get a ticket? > Nobody has received tickets in my mooring field. I am the nervous-Nelly about this whenever the rumors go around about the DNY guys inspecting. Apparently the last inspection had to do with the drunken-powerboater problem the city was having just south of the field. Because the yacht club members include some more influential persons than I am, I think we get some immunity. Technically, if you're moored outside an approved mooring field you've got to have an anchor light. My mooring is one of the closest to shore, so if some drunk power boater careens into the unofficial field, he'll probably hit somebody else's boat first. I've had my mooring for about a decade now. I bought it from a guy with a new bigger boat with a draft that exceeded the depth. Since it's unauthorized, what I really bought was squatter's rights to that location, the ground tackle, and a beat-up dinghy. The ground tackle is two Danforths on chain connected to "a big tooth-shaped chunk of concrete" wrapped in chain, then another chain to the mooring ball. Cobbled together, but it works. The newer mooring anchors, the ones set by the local guys in the business of doing it, are big concrete discs. More elegant, yes. I couldn't stand the beat-up dinghy, a Dyer copy, so I rebuilt and painted it. Now it reflects well on the Cal 20 and her skipper. Chris Campbell

I think in Grosse Pointe, Mi. I am bound to open up some can of worms ....but I seem to revolve around trouble... To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: th… [at] gmail.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:06:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... I am also interested in this. I would suppose that the rules that govern are specific to area? Does anyone know for San Diego? On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:39 AM, george macon <ge… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: So if I wanted to do this I would be on my own to do so and need to watch my boat, and if people complained I may or may not get a ticket? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cc… [at] lsnm.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:51:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... On 1/31/2011 11:46 AM, george macon wrote: Chris... I know you keep your boat on a mooring.... If i wanted too, what would keep me from dropping a mooring someplace and keeping my boat there if I wanted to? Nothing; it happens all the time. The moorings are unofficial (not Corps of Engineers approved) except for one small area near the yacht club. One big building owner on the waterfront, just past the city limit, actually leased the state bottomland and chases everybody away from that portion. He put out a bunch of moorings to rent and has had very few takers. Periodically there are rumors that our DNR will ticket us all and makes us pull the moorings. It is state-owned bottomland in the Great Lakes. They did it north of here, but there it was a matter of people placing moorings in front of other peoples' homes and then partying all weekend. Where my mooring is, most of the adjacent boats are yacht club members since their official mooring field is so tiny, and I think there's some protection or influence from that. We are in one area because of geography-- there is a state harbor of refuge just north of us, and it affords some protection from north winds & seas. There are township and private marinas associated with the harbor, but they are very pricey and have waiting lists. Those are superior because they are protected from everything except hail. My mooring is superior because it's available & free. Every couple years I get a diver to check out my tackle and I've replaced the chain twice. A good sailor does not let his boat drift onto the shore, especially one with a sweet Cal 20. Chris Campbell

On 1/31/2011 3:06 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > I am also interested in this. I would suppose that the rules that > govern are specific to area? Does anyone know for San Diego? > Here's what I find in 33 CFR 110.1 (that's Title 33, Code of Federal Regulations, section 110.1) concerning "special anchorage areas" and "anchorage grounds" listed in that section. For example, there is an anchorage area for Little Traverse Bay, north of my Bay, Grand Traverse Bay. The local official mooring field must be approved under some other provision. > Vessels of less than 20 meters in length, and barges, canal > boats, scows, or other nondescript craft, are not required to sound > signals required by rule 35 of the Inland Navigation Rules (33 U.S.C. > 2035). Vessels of less than 20 meters are not required to exhibit anchor > lights or shapes required by rule 30 of the Inland Navigation Rules (33 > U.S.C. 2030). The special anchorage areas for San Diego are described in 33 CFR 110.90. Try this link: > http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2010/julqtr/33cfr110.90.htm That link is good now but the GPO is changing their access site soon. Now I've found a statute on this subject, 33 USC 471 (33 United States Code, section 471), which says: > The Secretary of Homeland Security is authorized, empowered, and > directed to define and establish anchorage grounds for vessels in all > harbors, rivers, bays, and other navigable waters of the United States > whenever it is manifest to the said Secretary that the maritime or > commercial interests of the United States require such anchorage > grounds for safe navigation and the establishment of such anchorage > grounds shall have been recommended by the Chief of Engineers, and to > adopt suitable rules and regulations in relation thereto; and such > rules and regulations shall be enforced by the Coast Guard under the > direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security: /Provided,/ That at > ports or places where there is no Coast Guard vessel available such > rules and regulations may be enforced by the Chief of Engineers under > the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security. In the event of > the violation of any such rules and regulations by the owner, master, > or person in charge of any vessel, such owner, master, or person in > charge of such vessel shall be liable to a penalty of $100; and the > said vessel may be holden for the payment of such penalty, and may be > seized and proceeded against summarily by libel for the recovery of > the same in any United States district court for the district within > which such vessel may be and in the name of the officer designated by > the Secretary of Homeland Security. Chris Campbell > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:39 AM, george macon > <ge… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:ge… [at] hotmail.com>> wrote: > > So if I wanted to do this I would be on my own to do so and need > to watch my boat, and if people complained I may or may not get a > ticket? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > From: cc… [at] lsnm.org <mailto:cc… [at] lsnm.org> > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:51:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... > > > On 1/31/2011 11:46 AM, george macon wrote: > > Chris... I know you keep your boat on a mooring.... If i > wanted too, what would keep me from dropping a mooring > someplace and keeping my boat there if I wanted to? > > > Nothing; it happens all the time. The moorings are unofficial (not > Corps of Engineers approved) except for one small area near the > yacht club. One big building owner on the waterfront, just past > the city limit, actually leased the state bottomland and chases > everybody away from that portion. He put out a bunch of moorings > to rent and has had very few takers. Periodically there are > rumors that our DNR will ticket us all and makes us pull the > moorings. It is state-owned bottomland in the Great Lakes. They > did it north of here, but there it was a matter of people placing > moorings in front of other peoples' homes and then partying all > weekend. Where my mooring is, most of the adjacent boats are > yacht club members since their official mooring field is so tiny, > and I think there's some protection or influence from that. We > are in one area because of geography-- there is a state harbor of > refuge just north of us, and it affords some protection from north > winds & seas. > > There are township and private marinas associated with the harbor, > but they are very pricey and have waiting lists. Those are > superior because they are protected from everything except hail. > My mooring is superior because it's available & free. Every > couple years I get a diver to check out my tackle and I've > replaced the chain twice. A good sailor does not let his boat > drift onto the shore, especially one with a sweet Cal 20. > > Chris Campbell > > > >

And at the bottom of that page 'Fixed moorings, piles or stakes are prohibited.' On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > On 1/31/2011 3:06 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > > > I am also interested in this. I would suppose that the rules that govern > are specific to area? Does anyone know for San Diego? > > Here's what I find in 33 CFR 110.1 (that's Title 33, Code of Federal > Regulations, section 110.1) concerning "special anchorage areas" and > "anchorage grounds" listed in that section. For example, there is an > anchorage area for Little Traverse Bay, north of my Bay, Grand Traverse > Bay. The local official mooring field must be approved under some other > provision. > > Vessels of less than 20 meters in length, and barges, canal > boats, scows, or other nondescript craft, are not required to sound > signals required by rule 35 of the Inland Navigation Rules (33 U.S.C. > 2035). Vessels of less than 20 meters are not required to exhibit anchor > lights or shapes required by rule 30 of the Inland Navigation Rules (33 > U.S.C. 2030). > > > The special anchorage areas for San Diego are described in 33 CFR 110.90. > Try this link: > > http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2010/julqtr/33cfr110.90.htm > > That link is good now but the GPO is changing their access site soon. > > > Now I've found a statute on this subject, 33 USC 471 (33 United States > Code, section 471), which says: > > The Secretary of Homeland Security is authorized, empowered, and directed > to define and establish anchorage grounds for vessels in all harbors, > rivers, bays, and other navigable waters of the United States whenever it is > manifest to the said Secretary that the maritime or commercial interests of > the United States require such anchorage grounds for safe navigation and the > establishment of such anchorage grounds shall have been recommended by the > Chief of Engineers, and to adopt suitable rules and regulations in relation > thereto; and such rules and regulations shall be enforced by the Coast Guard > under the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security: *Provided,*That at ports or places where there is no Coast Guard vessel available such > rules and regulations may be enforced by the Chief of Engineers under the > direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security. In the event of the > violation of any such rules and regulations by the owner, master, or person > in charge of any vessel, such owner, master, or person in charge of such > vessel shall be liable to a penalty of $100; and the said vessel may be > holden for the payment of such penalty, and may be seized and proceeded > against summarily by libel for the recovery of the same in any United States > district court for the district within which such vessel may be and in the > name of the officer designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security. > > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:39 AM, george macon <ge… [at] hotmail.com > > wrote: > >> >> >> So if I wanted to do this I would be on my own to do so and need to watch >> my boat, and if people complained I may or may not get a ticket? >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> From: cc… [at] lsnm.org >> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:51:55 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... >> >> >> >> On 1/31/2011 11:46 AM, george macon wrote: >> >> >> Chris... I know you keep your boat on a mooring.... If i wanted too, what >> would keep me from dropping a mooring someplace and keeping my boat there if >> I wanted to? >> >> >> Nothing; it happens all the time. The moorings are unofficial (not Corps >> of Engineers approved) except for one small area near the yacht club. One >> big building owner on the waterfront, just past the city limit, actually >> leased the state bottomland and chases everybody away from that portion. He >> put out a bunch of moorings to rent and has had very few takers. >> Periodically there are rumors that our DNR will ticket us all and makes us >> pull the moorings. It is state-owned bottomland in the Great Lakes. They >> did it north of here, but there it was a matter of people placing moorings >> in front of other peoples' homes and then partying all weekend. Where my >> mooring is, most of the adjacent boats are yacht club members since their >> official mooring field is so tiny, and I think there's some protection or >> influence from that. We are in one area because of geography-- there is a >> state harbor of refuge just north of us, and it affords some protection from >> north winds & seas. >> >> There are township and private marinas associated with the harbor, but >> they are very pricey and have waiting lists. Those are superior because >> they are protected from everything except hail. My mooring is superior >> because it's available & free. Every couple years I get a diver to check >> out my tackle and I've replaced the chain twice. A good sailor does not let >> his boat drift onto the shore, especially one with a sweet Cal 20. >> >> Chris Campbell >> >> >> > > >

On 1/31/2011 3:38 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > And at the bottom of that page 'Fixed moorings, piles or stakes are prohibited.' > There must be another provision for small-boat mooring fields. Finding it is the thing.... Chris Campbell > > >

George, it's those parties you throw. You may be persona non grata. There goes the neighborhood. Cheers, Anyway Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of george macon Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:40 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... So if I wanted to do this I would be on my own to do so and need to watch my boat, and if people complained I may or may not get a ticket? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cc… [at] lsnm.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:51:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... On 1/31/2011 11:46 AM, george macon wrote: Chris... I know you keep your boat on a mooring.... If i wanted too, what would keep me from dropping a mooring someplace and keeping my boat there if I wanted to? Nothing; it happens all the time. The moorings are unofficial (not Corps of Engineers approved) except for one small area near the yacht club. One big building owner on the waterfront, just past the city limit, actually leased the state bottomland and chases everybody away from that portion. He put out a bunch of moorings to rent and has had very few takers. Periodically there are rumors that our DNR will ticket us all and makes us pull the moorings. It is state-owned bottomland in the Great Lakes. They did it north of here, but there it was a matter of people placing moorings in front of other peoples' homes and then partying all weekend. Where my mooring is, most of the adjacent boats are yacht club members since their official mooring field is so tiny, and I think there's some protection or influence from that. We are in one area because of geography-- there is a state harbor of refuge just north of us, and it affords some protection from north winds & seas. There are township and private marinas associated with the harbor, but they are very pricey and have waiting lists. Those are superior because they are protected from everything except hail. My mooring is superior because it's available & free. Every couple years I get a diver to check out my tackle and I've replaced the chain twice. A good sailor does not let his boat drift onto the shore, especially one with a sweet Cal 20. Chris Campbell

Jerry, did you send them a picture of your own boat? That might have sealed the deal. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Happy day, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax I got a property tax bill for my boat from CA. I sent them ads for comparable sized boats indicating they weren't worth that much and they never sent me another tax bill. Woo Hoo! Jerry --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 11:10 AM On 1/31/2011 1:48 PM, Donald Dutton wrote: Thank heavens I had saved the original, hand-written receipt from the brokerage in my files. Though they didn't believe the receipt at first, when challenged, they could not prove it wrong, either! We prevailed and paid the $10 registration fee for a documented boat and saved $8000 in the process -- all because of one musty, handwritten receipt we kept in the chart table. Always save records. In 1951 my parents bought an automatic washer, a Frigidaire with a porcelain enamel case, a wonderful flumpa-flumpa up and down agitator action and a spin speed that rivaled a centrifuge. Around 1980 the spin bearing failed and it went into the garage to await salvage operations. A couple years later I started taking the motor out and discovered that it had a cool transmission with beautiful machined gears and a pump lubrication system. It was way to pretty to junk so I found parts and I used it for another 5 or 6 years until it developed a lube leak. About 1990 I donated it to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI (we did not discuss the fact the GM made Frigidaire). My mother was able to find the receipt and her original down payment check in her collection of canceled checks. We found the original salesman, living in Florida, who wrote a letter about selling it. I had the instruction and installation books. It helps to save documents. Chris Campbell

An anchor or concrete block resting on the bottom is not "fixed" and thus is allowed. It can be moved by lifting and, except for the flukes of an anchor, are not below the surface like a driven piling or fixed mooring would be. Thus, Chris's mooring is not fixed and he did purchase the anchors, chain, and block of concrete, but not the rights to the ground on which they rest! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 12:43:09 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... On 1/31/2011 3:38 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: >And at the bottom of that page 'Fixed moorings, piles or stakes are prohibited.' There must be another provision for small-boat mooring fields. Finding it is the thing.... Chris Campbell > >

I have heard, (ha um) the engine blocks that are thoroughly cleaned can easily be used as very good mooring anchors, and dragged on the ice in the winter with chain and float attached. As spring comes they have a tendency to disappear with the mooring bouy remaining afloat. Then again we cannot do this where I live as all moorings must be approved by the local municipality and Provincial environmental ministry. Fines are very heavy. Best regards /ch On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Donald Dutton <dn… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > > > An anchor or concrete block resting on the bottom is not "fixed" and thus > is allowed. It can be moved by lifting and, except for the flukes of an > anchor, are not below the surface like a driven piling or fixed mooring > would be. Thus, Chris's mooring is not fixed and he did purchase the > anchors, chain, and block of concrete, but not the rights to the ground on > which they rest! > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you > didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail > away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. > Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Mon, January 31, 2011 12:43:09 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... > > > > On 1/31/2011 3:38 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > > > And at the bottom of that page 'Fixed moorings, piles or stakes are prohibited.' > > > There must be another provision for small-boat mooring fields. Finding it > is the thing.... > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > -- /ch

Not legal in the US either, but you would think with the pistons removed it would create a nice little wildlife habitat. But, in tidal areas, I would hate to hit one of those with my keel. Dropping randomly into different depths as opposed to diving to secure a location that might be below the average depth can create a future nightmare for somebody else. HH From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 1:26:49 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... (Chris (both)) I have heard, (ha um) the engine blocks that are thoroughly cleaned can easily be used as very good mooring anchors, and dragged on the ice in the winter with chain and float attached. As spring comes they have a tendency to disappear with the mooring bouy remaining afloat. Then again we cannot do this where I live as all moorings must be approved by the local municipality and Provincial environmental ministry. Fines are very heavy. Best regards /ch On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Donald Dutton <dn… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > >An anchor or concrete block resting on the bottom is not "fixed" and thus is >allowed. It can be moved by lifting and, except for the flukes of an anchor, >are not below the surface like a driven piling or fixed mooring would be. Thus, >Chris's mooring is not fixed and he did purchase the anchors, chain, and block >of concrete, but not the rights to the ground on which they rest! > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > >"Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't >do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the >safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." >........Mark Twain > > > > > From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 12:43:09 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... > > >On 1/31/2011 3:38 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > >>And at the bottom of that page 'Fixed moorings, piles or stakes are >prohibited.' There must be another provision for small-boat mooring fields. Finding it is the thing.... Chris Campbell > > > > -- /ch

Makes me wonder whether a boat moored in the ice (if there are indeed any left that way) will break loose when the ice grabs the hull and moves with the currents. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Horn Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... (Chris (both)) Not legal in the US either, but you would think with the pistons removed it would create a nice little wildlife habitat. But, in tidal areas, I would hate to hit one of those with my keel. Dropping randomly into different depths as opposed to diving to secure a location that might be below the average depth can create a future nightmare for somebody else. HH From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 1:26:49 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... (Chris (both)) I have heard, (ha um) the engine blocks that are thoroughly cleaned can easily be used as very good mooring anchors, and dragged on the ice in the winter with chain and float attached. As spring comes they have a tendency to disappear with the mooring bouy remaining afloat. Then again we cannot do this where I live as all moorings must be approved by the local municipality and Provincial environmental ministry. Fines are very heavy. Best regards /ch On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Donald Dutton <dn… [at] sbcglobal.net<mailto:dn… [at] sbcglobal.net>> wrote: An anchor or concrete block resting on the bottom is not "fixed" and thus is allowed. It can be moved by lifting and, except for the flukes of an anchor, are not below the surface like a driven piling or fixed mooring would be. Thus, Chris's mooring is not fixed and he did purchase the anchors, chain, and block of concrete, but not the rights to the ground on which they rest! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org<mailto:cc… [at] lsnm.org>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 12:43:09 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mooring... On 1/31/2011 3:38 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: And at the bottom of that page 'Fixed moorings, piles or stakes are prohibited.' There must be another provision for small-boat mooring fields. Finding it is the thing.... Chris Campbell -- /ch

No no the theory is that as the engine is open, no head and no oil pan, the engine embeds itself in the silt and mud and eventually is completely covered. Now the lads doing this do this in areas, where the mooring fields are for powerboats, mostly marshy shorelines. Shallow and as said, the engines become part of the bottom after a season or two. /ch

Its typically done by ski-doo and toboggan. Like the ice fishing crowd. You prepare the engine load it on a sled, and then take it to the area, unload the sled and head home. Most of the work is getting the block spotless, and setting up the chain tackle. Actually its all very simple. Charlie, I live in a country that experiences more winter then most and most folks_north_ of our major cities, interestingly enough Ottawa included, where I used to live, love the winter. What the east coast is experiencing this year and last, is considered a standard winter for a lot of people up here. So plunking an engine on a backwater lake (we have more lakes or ponds then anyone on the planet I think given the geology of the land) is like going to Ace to get parts for the whatever. Its just something folks do, mostly power boaters, rather then build a dock which the ice takes out each year. Now to make it clear, these engine blocks are spotless as the oils tend to kill the fish and that's what folks are there for. Its a pretty clever system actually and most are more ecologically cognitive then the green crowd in urban areas. /ch

Well said Brian...I have never understood why people don't move if they cant make it work in a particular place. It either works with you or against you, so why stay. Hell no big issue. In most cases its not even the financial issues that make or break a place, rather the nature of simple human relations that's the basis for everything....if folks work with you your business succeeds, if they work against you...time to leave. Best of luck on all front...good to read such a good honest post. /ch

Yeah, back then the boat look good, all spit and polished from two months at the boat yard, I'm ashamed of what it looks like now! Haven't hauled it since '97, which makes my bottom cleaning guy happy. Jerry --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> Subject: RE: Happy day, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 12:52 PM Jerry, did you send them a picture of your own boat? That might have sealed the deal. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Happy day, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax I got a property tax bill for my boat from CA. I sent them ads for comparable sized boats indicating they weren't worth that much and they never sent me another tax bill. Woo Hoo! Jerry --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 11:10 AM On 1/31/2011 1:48 PM, Donald Dutton wrote: Thank heavens I had saved the original, hand-written receipt from the brokerage in my files. Though they didn't believe the receipt at first, when challenged, they could not prove it wrong, either! We prevailed and paid the $10 registration fee for a documented boat and saved $8000 in the process -- all because of one musty, handwritten receipt we kept in the chart table. Always save records. In 1951 my parents bought an automatic washer, a Frigidaire with a porcelain enamel case, a wonderful flumpa-flumpa up and down agitator action and a spin speed that rivaled a centrifuge. Around 1980 the spin bearing failed and it went into the garage to await salvage operations. A couple years later I started taking the motor out and discovered that it had a cool transmission with beautiful machined gears and a pump lubrication system. It was way to pretty to junk so I found parts and I used it for another 5 or 6 years until it developed a lube leak. About 1990 I donated it to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI (we did not discuss the fact the GM made Frigidaire). My mother was able to find the receipt and her original down payment check in her collection of canceled checks. We found the original salesman, living in Florida, who wrote a letter about selling it. I had the instruction and installation books. It helps to save documents. Chris Campbell

Charlie, I sent the California Board of Equalization newspaper ads showing comparable boats to mine selling for $2000 or less, now the same boats would be lucky to fetch $500! Now, I'd probably have to pay someone to take my boat away, were it not for the 800 lbs of lead in its keel. Ha,a good reason to buy a sailboat! Slips are going for 12 bucks a foot here, for the cheapest double slips, for boats 25' or there abouts., I'm paying about $10 a foot because I've been here for 14 years. What is everyone else paying? I've seen $6/ ft up in the bay area, for a lot nicer facilities. We have one shower to service several hundred boats, unbelievable. The docks are actually OK since they've been repaired, but the County wants to use it as an excuse to reduce our 400 slips to about 180, with bigger fairways. We don't need no bigger fairways for people who never take their boats out anyways. That is just to reduce slip numbers to get more parking for high rise Con-doze. Arrrghhhh %$#@!! Jerry --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Happy day, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 4:45 PM Yeah, back then the boat look good, all spit and polished from two months at the boat yard, I'm ashamed of what it looks like now! Haven't hauled it since '97, which makes my bottom cleaning guy happy. Jerry --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> Subject: RE: Happy day, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 12:52 PM Jerry, did you send them a picture of your own boat? That might have sealed the deal. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Happy day, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax I got a property tax bill for my boat from CA. I sent them ads for comparable sized boats indicating they weren't worth that much and they never sent me another tax bill. Woo Hoo! Jerry --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: From: Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 11:10 AM On 1/31/2011 1:48 PM, Donald Dutton wrote: Thank heavens I had saved the original, hand-written receipt from the brokerage in my files. Though they didn't believe the receipt at first, when challenged, they could not prove it wrong, either! We prevailed and paid the $10 registration fee for a documented boat and saved $8000 in the process -- all because of one musty, handwritten receipt we kept in the chart table. Always save records. In 1951 my parents bought an automatic washer, a Frigidaire with a porcelain enamel case, a wonderful flumpa-flumpa up and down agitator action and a spin speed that rivaled a centrifuge. Around 1980 the spin bearing failed and it went into the garage to await salvage operations. A couple years later I started taking the motor out and discovered that it had a cool transmission with beautiful machined gears and a pump lubrication system. It was way to pretty to junk so I found parts and I used it for another 5 or 6 years until it developed a lube leak. About 1990 I donated it to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI (we did not discuss the fact the GM made Frigidaire). My mother was able to find the receipt and her original down payment check in her collection of canceled checks. We found the original salesman, living in Florida, who wrote a letter about selling it. I had the instruction and installation books. It helps to save documents. Chris Campbell

On 1/31/2011 5:45 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Makes me wonder whether a boat moored in the ice (if there are indeed > any left that way) will break loose when the ice grabs the hull and > moves with the currents. Yes. Around here, the winter buoys for navigation channels are often dragged way off-station. And as Shackleton discovered, being moved by the ice isn't the worst thing.... Chris Campbell >

On 1/31/2011 6:35 PM, chris123 wrote: > > Charlie, I live in a country that experiences more winter then most > and most folks_north_ of our major cities, interestingly enough Ottawa > included, where I used to live, love the winter. What the east coast > is experiencing this year and last, is considered a standard winter > for a lot of people up here. I'm glad somebody else agrees. Last night I was driving to the grocery store and thinking how really glorious a month January is. You can have November and December, months that are dark and gloomy without any corresponding opportunities for outdoor activity. But come January, it's reliably cold, the sun comes out reasonably often, and there's lots of snow. It's wonderful. This one has been especially good. We've had consistently cold temps, regular moderate snowfalls, and just the right amount of snow on Friday nights for great X-C skiing on Sat. morning. > So plunking an engine on a backwater lake (we have more lakes or ponds > then anyone on the planet I think given the geology of the land) is > like going to Ace to get parts for the whatever. One of those odd childhood memories was visiting the lake where my grandfather had his cottage. It's connected via a channel to Lake Michigan. My uncle was going to the junkyard to buy an engine block for a mooring for his power cruiser. This was probably about 1955, so the block was probably from a 1940s car, and the boat was a wooden Owens cruiser. The engine block is undoubtedly still there and the boat is undoubtedly gone to boat heaven. Chris Campbell

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Chris <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > On 1/31/2011 6:35 PM, chris123 wrote: > > > Charlie, I live in a country that experiences more winter then most and most folks_north_ of our major cities, interestingly enough Ottawa included, where I used to live, love the winter. What the east coast is experiencing this year and last, is considered a standard winter for a lot of people up here. > > I'm glad somebody else agrees. Love of winter was one of the main benefits when I moved to Ottawa 17 years ago. It was wonderful. And folks are more active in the winter then summer. skating on the Canal at midnight just after it was resurfaced and getting warmed by an oil drum full of wood, and the wine skin under your shoulder, cross country and down hill skiing every weekend, winter camping (just one, my buddy would not let me leave town with out trying....and its amazing) visiting my uncles farm and walking the trap line, rural life is especially nice as folks are so real and down to earth and have a cultural and heritage build around the wonder of winter (6 months of it) Then about 5 years ago things changed. The weather patterns changed abruptly. Summer fades into winter without fall, temps are extremely mild, and winter jumps into summer. No more glorious spring watching the woods and wildlife coming back to life. It has had serious economic impacts to the City of Ottawa as the annual winter carnival that boats the longest out door skating rink in the world, has a tendency not to freeze any more or is very late. The bitter jan-feb freeze where the temps are -20 to -30 for at least three weeks, no longer comes. The 2.5 million tourist from out of town do not come either as the winter festival is now a relic of what it used to be. But as with all things, times change and so does weather. I really really miss the beauty of a Canadian winter and hanging out with people who know how to live it well. Urbanites are so preoccupied with surviving winter that they fail to appreciate its wonder. Its a value system that I have tried to retain as I moved back to a more urbanized area, Its not the same however as the local culture does noting but complain. Lets just say you have not lived until you've blasted across a frozen lake at 50 miles an hour on a ski doo and accidentally hit open water and fly right over it. Requires a change of drawers each and every time. But I always go with my farmer cousin and know the routine.."now worries, it will be safe this time"....ya right...But I never miss it if I can. Best regards Chris... Sailing content. The Ottawa River is on of the most gorgeous rivers to sail inland that Ive ever come across. Its like your travelling back in time, to the discovery of the new world following the traditional fur trading route. Marvelous. See attached photo., Friends CS22 where I learned to sail. /ch

Brian, You are welcome to join us in Liberty Bay but you will have to pay a bit of a premium I suspect. You don't get something for nothing (that goes for govt. enforcement of boating laws and taxes too) I have not had any security issues in Poulsbo. I will leave off there or we will get way off of sailing content. Thanks for your service. Chris --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@... wrote: > > I agree that WA is affordable for keeping a boat tax-wise. Only real issue I have with Mason County is that there are too many residents that live on the waterfront of the canal that illegally place buoys and take liberties with boats that don't belong to them by playing a vessel version of "musical chairs." The EPA in this county has the local marinas in the Hood Canal hand tied over live aboard since none of the marinas have them. > > Adding further challenge is that the sheriff's office lacks the manpower or education to actually do anything about the lawlessness of a large number of power boaters (and a small percentage of sailors) that will moore or--worse yet--anchor their boats in precarious locations on the canal for more than the 60 day limit to the duration of several years, some of them in areas that are navigable hazards at night time. > > That's why at first opportunity this spring, I'm moving my own vessel back to Port Orchard, since because of the issues I mentioned, I have suffered several thousand dollars in damages to my own vessel. So boat ownership is inexpensive in WA dependent on location and proximity to tweekers and the local infrastructure that enables them and the drama that ensues around them.. > > I've lived in WA for 14 years, four of them as a Navy Sailor on the carrier USS Carl Vinson (a flagship with a brand of drama defined and classified as its own--LOL), with four years before that as a Corpsman with the USMC and to this day, I can't believe the drama that has unfolded before me since I moved here to Mason County two years ago. It kills me to say that I've had more issues than I can stomach here to the point that not only am I moving my boat back to Kitsap County, but also my residence and my business. And though I'm sure that I will be privy to drama there to some degree, at least there will be security cameras at the marina I'll be staying in. The price you pay the marina you stay in is the trade off for the difference paid for the damages potentially caused by lawlessness and drama caused by idiots that run a muck! > > I actually plan to return to PA in a couple of years if things in WA don't start to turn around. I would do it now, but the economy is even worse in PA. > > I hope I don't sound like a scorned sailor or sea lawyer, but something's got to give. I could write a book on events that have taken place off of North Shore Road in Belfair over the last year alone. > > What it boils down to is that no matter where you moore, there is going to be someone with his hand out for the state, county or town you happen be in, and the prices will continue to rise as politicians look at your money as their money (and not custodians of) and that is the same old story. I may come off as a bit of an anarchist, but the government is yet another trade-off we all pay for to get minimal protection from some degree of lunacy. > Unfortunately a world free of taxes and politicians does not and will never exist. > > Brian > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "sculler2000" <sculler2000@...> > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:20:35 > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax > > > Don't let my Fellow WA resident alarm you. WA is a very affordable place to keep a sailboat compared to other states. > > No income tax, high sales tax (8-10% depending on county), no property tax on your boat. > I pay $90ish / year to register my Cal 31 with the state and I pay DNR fees through my moorage which all-together is about $350 / month inc. all taxes and fees. > > We have a high gas tax, that is about it relative to other states and us Sailboat guys do not use much of the stuff. > > I agree that the state is always looking for more taxes, but I think that is universal these days and not specific to our Govorner (and no, I am not a fan by the way) > > If you want to say something is high or low, my response will aways be "compared to what?" > > We are "boating tax affordable" compared to Maryland and many other states. > > Chris > Cal-31 Poulsbo, WA > > > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@ wrote: > > > > Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be taxing us all in no time. It's amazing what differences there are in tax laws between different states in the Union; makes one want to throw tea into Boston Harbor all over again (in my case-Hood Canal). > > > > I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, WA hasn't been much better. > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@> > > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax > > > > Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the boat for. Sigh... > > > > I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 > > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 > > > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html > > > > /ch > > >

I like that marina, and Poulsbo is very nice and people very friendly. It is one of the marinas I am considering as a new home for "Vegvisir" my American 7.5. I don't have a Cal anymore :( but I like this group because you all have great tips and share intelligible stories and opinions that are a joy to read! :) Brian From: "sculler2000" <sc… [at] yahoo.com> Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 18:41:01 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax Brian, You are welcome to join us in Liberty Bay but you will have to pay a bit of a premium I suspect. You don't get something for nothing (that goes for govt. enforcement of boating laws and taxes too) I have not had any security issues in Poulsbo. I will leave off there or we will get way off of sailing content. Thanks for your service. Chris --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@... wrote: > > I agree that WA is affordable for keeping a boat tax-wise. Only real issue I have with Mason County is that there are too many residents that live on the waterfront of the canal that illegally place buoys and take liberties with boats that don't belong to them by playing a vessel version of "musical chairs." The EPA in this county has the local marinas in the Hood Canal hand tied over live aboard since none of the marinas have them. > > Adding further challenge is that the sheriff's office lacks the manpower or education to actually do anything about the lawlessness of a large number of power boaters (and a small percentage of sailors) that will moore or--worse yet--anchor their boats in precarious locations on the canal for more than the 60 day limit to the duration of several years, some of them in areas that are navigable hazards at night time. > > That's why at first opportunity this spring, I'm moving my own vessel back to Port Orchard, since because of the issues I mentioned, I have suffered several thousand dollars in damages to my own vessel. So boat ownership is inexpensive in WA dependent on location and proximity to tweekers and the local infrastructure that enables them and the drama that ensues around them.. > > I've lived in WA for 14 years, four of them as a Navy Sailor on the carrier USS Carl Vinson (a flagship with a brand of drama defined and classified as its own--LOL), with four years before that as a Corpsman with the USMC and to this day, I can't believe the drama that has unfolded before me since I moved here to Mason County two years ago. It kills me to say that I've had more issues than I can stomach here to the point that not only am I moving my boat back to Kitsap County, but also my residence and my business. And though I'm sure that I will be privy to drama there to some degree, at least there will be security cameras at the marina I'll be staying in. The price you pay the marina you stay in is the trade off for the difference paid for the damages potentially caused by lawlessness and drama caused by idiots that run a muck! > > I actually plan to return to PA in a couple of years if things in WA don't start to turn around. I would do it now, but the economy is even worse in PA. > > I hope I don't sound like a scorned sailor or sea lawyer, but something's got to give. I could write a book on events that have taken place off of North Shore Road in Belfair over the last year alone. > > What it boils down to is that no matter where you moore, there is going to be someone with his hand out for the state, county or town you happen be in, and the prices will continue to rise as politicians look at your money as their money (and not custodians of) and that is the same old story. I may come off as a bit of an anarchist, but the government is yet another trade-off we all pay for to get minimal protection from some degree of lunacy. > Unfortunately a world free of taxes and politicians does not and will never exist. > > Brian > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "sculler2000" <sculler2000@...> > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:20:35 > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax > > > Don't let my Fellow WA resident alarm you. WA is a very affordable place to keep a sailboat compared to other states. > > No income tax, high sales tax (8-10% depending on county), no property tax on your boat. > I pay $90ish / year to register my Cal 31 with the state and I pay DNR fees through my moorage which all-together is about $350 / month inc. all taxes and fees. > > We have a high gas tax, that is about it relative to other states and us Sailboat guys do not use much of the stuff. > > I agree that the state is always looking for more taxes, but I think that is universal these days and not specific to our Govorner (and no, I am not a fan by the way) > > If you want to say something is high or low, my response will aways be "compared to what?" > > We are "boating tax affordable" compared to Maryland and many other states. > > Chris > Cal-31 Poulsbo, WA > > > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@ wrote: > > > > Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be taxing us all in no time. It's amazing what differences there are in tax laws between different states in the Union; makes one want to throw tea into Boston Harbor all over again (in my case-Hood Canal). > > > > I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, WA hasn't been much better. > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@> > > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax > > > > Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the boat for. Sigh... > > > > I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 > > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A Mere $2,850 > > > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html > > > > /ch > > >

For what it's worth, our current Harbormaster recently moved his 37-footer to Poulsbo, pending his retirement in a couple of years. I myself can vouch for the town and its people. It's a wonderful place. Richard Dozier Panhandle Yacht Club "Pantera" Cal 40 #110 On Feb 2, 2011, at 12:01 AM, bh… [at] msn.com wrote: > I like that marina, and Poulsbo is very nice and people very > friendly. It is one of the marinas I am considering as a new home > for "Vegvisir" my American 7.5. I don't have a Cal anymore :( but I > like this group because you all have great tips and share > intelligible stories and opinions that are a joy to read! :) > > Brian > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > From: "sculler2000" <sc… [at] yahoo.com> > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 18:41:01 -0000 > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > ReplyTo: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax > > > Brian, > > You are welcome to join us in Liberty Bay but you will have to pay a > bit of a premium I suspect. You don't get something for nothing > (that goes for govt. enforcement of boating laws and taxes too) I > have not had any security issues in Poulsbo. > > I will leave off there or we will get way off of sailing content. > > Thanks for your service. > > Chris > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@... wrote: > > > > I agree that WA is affordable for keeping a boat tax-wise. Only > real issue I have with Mason County is that there are too many > residents that live on the waterfront of the canal that illegally > place buoys and take liberties with boats that don't belong to them > by playing a vessel version of "musical chairs." The EPA in this > county has the local marinas in the Hood Canal hand tied over live > aboard since none of the marinas have them. > > > > Adding further challenge is that the sheriff's office lacks the > manpower or education to actually do anything about the lawlessness > of a large number of power boaters (and a small percentage of > sailors) that will moore or--worse yet--anchor their boats in > precarious locations on the canal for more than the 60 day limit to > the duration of several years, some of them in areas that are > navigable hazards at night time. > > > > That's why at first opportunity this spring, I'm moving my own > vessel back to Port Orchard, since because of the issues I > mentioned, I have suffered several thousand dollars in damages to my > own vessel. So boat ownership is inexpensive in WA dependent on > location and proximity to tweekers and the local infrastructure that > enables them and the drama that ensues around them.. > > > > I've lived in WA for 14 years, four of them as a Navy Sailor on > the carrier USS Carl Vinson (a flagship with a brand of drama > defined and classified as its own--LOL), with four years before that > as a Corpsman with the USMC and to this day, I can't believe the > drama that has unfolded before me since I moved here to Mason County > two years ago. It kills me to say that I've had more issues than I > can stomach here to the point that not only am I moving my boat back > to Kitsap County, but also my residence and my business. And though > I'm sure that I will be privy to drama there to some degree, at > least there will be security cameras at the marina I'll be staying > in. The price you pay the marina you stay in is the trade off for > the difference paid for the damages potentially caused by > lawlessness and drama caused by idiots that run a muck! > > > > I actually plan to return to PA in a couple of years if things in > WA don't start to turn around. I would do it now, but the economy is > even worse in PA. > > > > I hope I don't sound like a scorned sailor or sea lawyer, but > something's got to give. I could write a book on events that have > taken place off of North Shore Road in Belfair over the last year > alone. > > > > What it boils down to is that no matter where you moore, there is > going to be someone with his hand out for the state, county or town > you happen be in, and the prices will continue to rise as > politicians look at your money as their money (and not custodians > of) and that is the same old story. I may come off as a bit of an > anarchist, but the government is yet another trade-off we all pay > for to get minimal protection from some degree of lunacy. > > Unfortunately a world free of taxes and politicians does not and > will never exist. > > > > Brian > > > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "sculler2000" <sculler2000@...> > > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:20:35 > > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax > > > > > > Don't let my Fellow WA resident alarm you. WA is a very affordable > place to keep a sailboat compared to other states. > > > > No income tax, high sales tax (8-10% depending on county), no > property tax on your boat. > > I pay $90ish / year to register my Cal 31 with the state and I pay > DNR fees through my moorage which all-together is about $350 / month > inc. all taxes and fees. > > > > We have a high gas tax, that is about it relative to other states > and us Sailboat guys do not use much of the stuff. > > > > I agree that the state is always looking for more taxes, but I > think that is universal these days and not specific to our Govorner > (and no, I am not a fan by the way) > > > > If you want to say something is high or low, my response will > aways be "compared to what?" > > > > We are "boating tax affordable" compared to Maryland and many > other states. > > > > Chris > > Cal-31 Poulsbo, WA > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@ wrote: > > > > > > Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be > taxing us all in no time. It's amazing what differences there are in > tax laws between different states in the Union; makes one want to > throw tea into Boston Harbor all over again (in my case-Hood Canal). > > > > > > I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, > WA hasn't been much better. > > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@> > > > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax > > > > > > Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia > has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does > not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate > is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider > that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. > Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat > into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax > when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if > one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The > state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the > number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the > boat for. Sigh... > > > > > > I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin > cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice > trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine > (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental > and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL > for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Charlie > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 > > > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A > Mere $2,850 > > > > > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > > > > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html > > > > > > /ch > > > > > > > > >

And you can go to the Nordic Maid for all your Scandinavian needs! Uff dah! Jeg likke ditt! Brian Hood Canal "Vegvisir" AMI 7.5 From: Richard Dozier <dd… [at] frontier.com> Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:55:13 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Marina at Poulsbo For what it's worth, our current Harbormaster recently moved his 37-footer to Poulsbo, pending his retirement in a couple of years. I myself can vouch for the town and its people. It's a wonderful place. Richard Dozier Panhandle Yacht Club "Pantera" Cal 40 #110 On Feb 2, 2011, at 12:01 AM, bh… [at] msn.com wrote: > I like that marina, and Poulsbo is very nice and people very > friendly. It is one of the marinas I am considering as a new home > for "Vegvisir" my American 7.5. I don't have a Cal anymore :( but I > like this group because you all have great tips and share > intelligible stories and opinions that are a joy to read! :) > > Brian > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > From: "sculler2000" <sc… [at] yahoo.com> > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 18:41:01 -0000 > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > ReplyTo: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax > > > Brian, > > You are welcome to join us in Liberty Bay but you will have to pay a > bit of a premium I suspect. You don't get something for nothing > (that goes for govt. enforcement of boating laws and taxes too) I > have not had any security issues in Poulsbo. > > I will leave off there or we will get way off of sailing content. > > Thanks for your service. > > Chris > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@... wrote: > > > > I agree that WA is affordable for keeping a boat tax-wise. Only > real issue I have with Mason County is that there are too many > residents that live on the waterfront of the canal that illegally > place buoys and take liberties with boats that don't belong to them > by playing a vessel version of "musical chairs." The EPA in this > county has the local marinas in the Hood Canal hand tied over live > aboard since none of the marinas have them. > > > > Adding further challenge is that the sheriff's office lacks the > manpower or education to actually do anything about the lawlessness > of a large number of power boaters (and a small percentage of > sailors) that will moore or--worse yet--anchor their boats in > precarious locations on the canal for more than the 60 day limit to > the duration of several years, some of them in areas that are > navigable hazards at night time. > > > > That's why at first opportunity this spring, I'm moving my own > vessel back to Port Orchard, since because of the issues I > mentioned, I have suffered several thousand dollars in damages to my > own vessel. So boat ownership is inexpensive in WA dependent on > location and proximity to tweekers and the local infrastructure that > enables them and the drama that ensues around them.. > > > > I've lived in WA for 14 years, four of them as a Navy Sailor on > the carrier USS Carl Vinson (a flagship with a brand of drama > defined and classified as its own--LOL), with four years before that > as a Corpsman with the USMC and to this day, I can't believe the > drama that has unfolded before me since I moved here to Mason County > two years ago. It kills me to say that I've had more issues than I > can stomach here to the point that not only am I moving my boat back > to Kitsap County, but also my residence and my business. And though > I'm sure that I will be privy to drama there to some degree, at > least there will be security cameras at the marina I'll be staying > in. The price you pay the marina you stay in is the trade off for > the difference paid for the damages potentially caused by > lawlessness and drama caused by idiots that run a muck! > > > > I actually plan to return to PA in a couple of years if things in > WA don't start to turn around. I would do it now, but the economy is > even worse in PA. > > > > I hope I don't sound like a scorned sailor or sea lawyer, but > something's got to give. I could write a book on events that have > taken place off of North Shore Road in Belfair over the last year > alone. > > > > What it boils down to is that no matter where you moore, there is > going to be someone with his hand out for the state, county or town > you happen be in, and the prices will continue to rise as > politicians look at your money as their money (and not custodians > of) and that is the same old story. I may come off as a bit of an > anarchist, but the government is yet another trade-off we all pay > for to get minimal protection from some degree of lunacy. > > Unfortunately a world free of taxes and politicians does not and > will never exist. > > > > Brian > > > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "sculler2000" <sculler2000@...> > > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:20:35 > > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day - Property Tax > > > > > > Don't let my Fellow WA resident alarm you. WA is a very affordable > place to keep a sailboat compared to other states. > > > > No income tax, high sales tax (8-10% depending on county), no > property tax on your boat. > > I pay $90ish / year to register my Cal 31 with the state and I pay > DNR fees through my moorage which all-together is about $350 / month > inc. all taxes and fees. > > > > We have a high gas tax, that is about it relative to other states > and us Sailboat guys do not use much of the stuff. > > > > I agree that the state is always looking for more taxes, but I > think that is universal these days and not specific to our Govorner > (and no, I am not a fan by the way) > > > > If you want to say something is high or low, my response will > aways be "compared to what?" > > > > We are "boating tax affordable" compared to Maryland and many > other states. > > > > Chris > > Cal-31 Poulsbo, WA > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, bhess246@ wrote: > > > > > > Don't let Governor Gregoire get wind of this thread, she be > taxing us all in no time. It's amazing what differences there are in > tax laws between different states in the Union; makes one want to > throw tea into Boston Harbor all over again (in my case-Hood Canal). > > > > > > I never much cared for MD when I lived there years ago. Lately, > WA hasn't been much better. > > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@> > > > Sender: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:37:25 > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > > Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Property Tax > > > > > > Hi, Chris. Around here the property tax is by state. Virginia > has a personal property tax (including boats), and Maryland does > not. I think it balances out depending on what the income tax rate > is. In MD, there is a 5 percent state income tax with a county rider > that adds 3 percent. Not to mention the 6 percent state sales tax. > Oh, also, one pays a 5 or 6 percent tax when one brings the boat > into the state. Some people mistakenly think this is a sales tax > when one buys a boat, but it is not. One must also pay this tax if > one ones brings a boat into the state. It is an excise tax. The > state decides how much the boat is worth. For older boats, the > number is obscenely higher than what one could actually sell the > boat for. Sigh... > > > > > > I have a well-to-do friend who would take his 63 foot cabin > cruiser to FL every Fall and bring it back in the Spring. Was a nice > trip that I took a number of times. Ports of call like St Augustine > (home of the Sailors Exchange), Amelia Island, Charleston, Oriental > and Coinjock NC, Norfolk VA, and the like. Keeping the boat in FL > for 6 months a year saved him about $100K in the MD state excise tax. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Charlie > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 > > > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 AM > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sad Day - Firesale for My Cal 28 - A > Mere $2,850 > > > > > > I had no idea. And I thought my taxes were outrages... > > > > > > http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/property-tax-on-my-new-boat-16600.html > > > > > > /ch > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Well, hopefully it won't be too sad of a day. You're going to make someone happy--especially at that price! Thanks for your site. It was a major player in my deciding to go for the Cal 28 I've had for over a year. And, as I get more familiar with her, really appreciate her sailing abilities. I feel confident going out in 2-3 foot chop with 30 knot winds. It's a great boat. I can imagine what the Cal 40 is like! Is that in my future? Well, I looked at yachtworld and the least expensive was $42K. Is that typical?? --Jim --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Bruce Stirling <bruce@...> wrote: > > January 27, 2011 > > Today I gave notice to the Chula Vista Marina in San Diego of my intent to > sell my boat, a 1965 Cal 28, Hull Number 82. I really hate to do it, but I > am looking at it as a stepping stone towards my eventual purchase of a Cal > 40. It may take a while. > > The boat is priced to sell immediately. She is in the water at the Chula > Vista Marina, where I pay $350 per month to keep her. She was being dived > regularly every month, up until about four months ago, when I decided I had > not taken her out in two years, so there was no need for the bottom > cleaning. You may know the website: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 . > Here is the boat: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28/P1010037.JPG . photos of > the boat and her interior are all over that website. I would prefer she be > owned by a Cal boat member. > > I can also be reached at the locations below. > > Sincerely, > > Bruce Stirling > > -- > Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. > 602.254.6638 > 602.460.5631 [Cell] > 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] > 520-302-5206 [Tucson] > bruce@... > http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers > > The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you. >

I have a Cal Cruising 36, hull #42, launched 1971. The hull design is based on the Cal 40 and sails very nicely. Actually, I think that the interior is better than the 40 for all but long distance cruising, since the raised dinette enables us to watch the action and scenery around us when at rest. In lieu of quarter berths, it has midship berths, a single and a double, which extend under the forward dinette seat on one side and the galley on the other. It serves as a conversation pit or a space to hunker down and read when we don't want to look outside. We even have a spare table with a folding pedestal so we (or extra guests) can eat in the midship area or in the cockpit. It's unlike any other Cruisng 36 I've ever seen in that the pedestal is forward, the helm is hydraulic, and a regular tiller can be mounted on the rudder shaft which extends above the cockpit sole. There's a hydraulic valve in the line to disconnect the hydraulic helm for tiller steering, which can be used when the wheel is removed out of the way, but the ram still exerts drag so it's definitely not finger-tip. The forward position of the helm is much better than the usual aft position too close to the mainsheet, and it allows the crew to move unimpeded to adjust sheets. I've never liked dodgers, so I don't have one, but with a long dodger the helm would even be protected from the weather -- not really necessary in southern CA. In my opinion this setup is superior to the usual placement of the helm aft. The reason I'm telling you this is because we've decided to sell the boat. Both of us are so heavily involved in community organizations as officers and board members that we have little time for it. In addition, we're getting old (75 to 80) so we are now out of shape physically and losing our sailing instincts because of our infrequent use. The time has come to give the boat up, although it's the best boat we've owned (for 17 1/2 years now) in our 48 years of boat ownership. According to the BUC website, the boat's value is around $21,000 to $23,000. That's a lot cheaper than a Cal 40 at $42,000, and the layout is better in my opinion. The boat is located in San Pedro, CA. It's documented. I need to take care of two maintenance items first (the seawater pump impeller just failed, and the gate valve at the base of the site gauge on the fuel tank has a slow leak) or else drop the price. If anyone is interested in buying it before or after the maintenance, please let me know. Thanks. -- Bob On 2/4/2011 8:52 PM, James wrote: > > Well, hopefully it won't be too sad of a day. You're going to make > someone happy--especially at that price! > > Thanks for your site. It was a major player in my deciding to go for > the Cal 28 I've had for over a year. And, as I get more familiar with > her, really appreciate her sailing abilities. I feel confident going > out in 2-3 foot chop with 30 knot winds. It's a great boat. I can > imagine what the Cal 40 is like! Is that in my future? Well, I looked > at yachtworld and the least expensive was $42K. Is that typical?? > > --Jim > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, > Bruce Stirling <bruce@...> wrote: > > > > January 27, 2011 > > > > Today I gave notice to the Chula Vista Marina in San Diego of my > intent to > > sell my boat, a 1965 Cal 28, Hull Number 82. I really hate to do it, > but I > > am looking at it as a stepping stone towards my eventual purchase of > a Cal > > 40. It may take a while. > > > > The boat is priced to sell immediately. She is in the water at the Chula > > Vista Marina, where I pay $350 per month to keep her. She was being > dived > > regularly every month, up until about four months ago, when I > decided I had > > not taken her out in two years, so there was no need for the bottom > > cleaning. You may know the website: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 . > > Here is the boat: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28/P1010037.JPG . > photos of > > the boat and her interior are all over that website. I would prefer > she be > > owned by a Cal boat member. > > > > I can also be reached at the locations below. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Bruce Stirling > > > > -- > > Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. > > 602.254.6638 > > 602.460.5631 [Cell] > > 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] > > 520-302-5206 [Tucson] > > bruce@... > > http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers > > > > The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and > > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > > undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you. > > > >

Bob, We're not potential buyers, as we already own a CC 36, which we keep in the San Juan Islands of Washington State. We completely agree with your comments about the boat - a great sailer and a wonderful layout for gunkholing, which is our style of cruising. Definitely our favorite amongst all the boats we've owned or chartered. Your remarks about the helm station are interesting - I've wondered idly about moving the wheel forward, for the very reasons you mentioned, and it's fascinating that someone actually did it. We wish you the best of luck in finding a new owner for your boat. Regards, Bill & Lene Symes S/V Sara E. --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Bob Gerecke <ge… [at] surfside.net> wrote: From: Bob Gerecke <ge… [at] surfside.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sad Day To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 11:58 PM I have a Cal Cruising 36, hull #42, launched 1971. The hull design is based on the Cal 40 and sails very nicely. Actually, I think that the interior is better than the 40 for all but long distance cruising, since the raised dinette enables us to watch the action and scenery around us when at rest. In lieu of quarter berths, it has midship berths, a single and a double, which extend under the forward dinette seat on one side and the galley on the other. It serves as a conversation pit or a space to hunker down and read when we don't want to look outside. We even have a spare table with a folding pedestal so we (or extra guests) can eat in the midship area or in the cockpit. It's unlike any other Cruisng 36 I've ever seen in that the pedestal is forward, the helm is hydraulic, and a regular tiller can be mounted on the rudder shaft which extends above the cockpit sole. There's a hydraulic valve in the line to disconnect the hydraulic helm for tiller steering, which can be used when the wheel is removed out of the way, but the ram still exerts drag so it's definitely not finger-tip. The forward position of the helm is much better than the usual aft position too close to the mainsheet, and it allows the crew to move unimpeded to adjust sheets. I've never liked dodgers, so I don't have one, but with a long dodger the helm would even be protected from the weather -- not really necessary in southern CA. In my opinion this setup is superior to the usual placement of the helm aft. The reason I'm telling you this is because we've decided to sell the boat. Both of us are so heavily involved in community organizations as officers and board members that we have little time for it. In addition, we're getting old (75 to 80) so we are now out of shape physically and losing our sailing instincts because of our infrequent use. The time has come to give the boat up, although it's the best boat we've owned (for 17 1/2 years now) in our 48 years of boat ownership. According to the BUC website, the boat's value is around $21,000 to $23,000. That's a lot cheaper than a Cal 40 at $42,000, and the layout is better in my opinion. The boat is located in San Pedro, CA. It's documented. I need to take care of two maintenance items first (the seawater pump impeller just failed, and the gate valve at the base of the site gauge on the fuel tank has a slow leak) or else drop the price. If anyone is interested in buying it before or after the maintenance, please let me know. Thanks. -- Bob On 2/4/2011 8:52 PM, James wrote: Well, hopefully it won't be too sad of a day. You're going to make someone happy--especially at that price! Thanks for your site. It was a major player in my deciding to go for the Cal 28 I've had for over a year. And, as I get more familiar with her, really appreciate her sailing abilities. I feel confident going out in 2-3 foot chop with 30 knot winds. It's a great boat. I can imagine what the Cal 40 is like! Is that in my future? Well, I looked at yachtworld and the least expensive was $42K. Is that typical?? --Jim --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Bruce Stirling <bruce@...> wrote: > > January 27, 2011 > > Today I gave notice to the Chula Vista Marina in San Diego of my intent to > sell my boat, a 1965 Cal 28, Hull Number 82. I really hate to do it, but I > am looking at it as a stepping stone towards my eventual purchase of a Cal > 40. It may take a while. > > The boat is priced to sell immediately. She is in the water at the Chula > Vista Marina, where I pay $350 per month to keep her. She was being dived > regularly every month, up until about four months ago, when I decided I had > not taken her out in two years, so there was no need for the bottom > cleaning. You may know the website: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 . > Here is the boat: http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28/P1010037.JPG . photos of > the boat and her interior are all over that website. I would prefer she be > owned by a Cal boat member. > > I can also be reached at the locations below. > > Sincerely, > > Bruce Stirling > > -- > Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq. > 602.254.6638 > 602.460.5631 [Cell] > 602-507-9445 [Phoenix] > 520-302-5206 [Tucson] > bruce@... > http://www.stirlinglaw.com/lawyers > > The information in this e-mail communication is privileged and > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > undersigned sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Thank you. >