Re: [Cal_Boats] Question for the racers in the group

Bob, We have a spring, summer and fall series with 8, 6 & 6 races respectively. Since people are slow to get their boats in the water we have 2 throwouts in the spring and only one in the other 2. We alternate RC duties and you get the average for all races in that series for your RC duty night. Hope this helps. Paul West Eastern Shore Sailing Association Cambridge, MD WWW.essasailing.com Bob Ellison <bo… [at] adelphia.net> wrote: >Everyone, >Our race committee was having a discussion last week regarding how many races to throw out during our season series. May to September and 20 races. Going back a couple years, our club on Oneida Lake, NY threw out 50%. We then moved it to 30%. The discussion last week went to no throw outs over the season, before I made a motion to table the discussion until we could figure out what other clubs do. Even that comment got a response of "who cares what other clubs do, I'm sailing here." >So, what does your club do? >Thanks >Bob

In Santa Barbara our "Wet Wednesday" Regatta consists of 3 series with 8 race per series and 1 or 2 fun faces in between each series. 1 of the 8 is thrown out in each of the series. The guys wanting 50% thrown out must not have much of a competitive spirit! I can not imagine why someone would want that. I would love to hear their argument for doing so. Daniel Casey "AirTime" Cal 9.2R #75 Santa Barbara, Ca.

There is none except to give more boats a chance to win assuming the top boats will sit out some races. But if you throw out that many races, you better have some complex tie breaker rules. Allen On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, <ai… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > > In Santa Barbara our "Wet Wednesday" Regatta consists of 3 series with 8 > race per series and 1 or 2 fun faces in between each series. 1 of the 8 is > thrown out in each of the series. The guys wanting 50% thrown out must not > have much of a competitive spirit! I can not imagine why someone would want > that. I would love to hear their argument for doing so. > > Daniel Casey > "AirTime" > Cal 9.2R #75 > Santa Barbara, Ca. > > >

I could see throwing out two out of eight. Sometimes you can't make it to week day events. --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Question for the racers in the group To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 5:37 PM There is none except to give more boats a chance to win assuming the top boats will sit out some races. But if you throw out that many races, you better have some complex tie breaker rules. Allen On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, <ai… [at] aol.com> wrote: In Santa Barbara our "Wet Wednesday" Regatta consists of 3 series with 8 race per series and 1 or 2 fun faces in between each series. 1 of the 8 is thrown out in each of the series. The guys wanting 50% thrown out must not have much of a competitive spirit! I can not imagine why someone would want that. I would love to hear their argument for doing so. Daniel Casey "AirTime" Cal 9.2R #75 Santa Barbara, Ca.

When our club was at 50%, it seemed to reward inconsistency. The last year we scored that way at the end of the season we had a boat that would do really well one week then be last the next tied with a boat was consistently top 3 almost every week. That skipper admitted that they would not have been tied for first if we kept more races. That same skipper is pushing for 100%. They are still sailing just as inconsistently but they do make it every week. The only justification I heard for the 50% was "that's how we've always done it". There were people that were upset when we changed to 30% throw out. I think they were mainly the people who had been around for a while and had set the 50%. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Edwards To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Question for the racers in the group There is none except to give more boats a chance to win assuming the top boats will sit out some races. But if you throw out that many races, you better have some complex tie breaker rules. Allen On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, <ai… [at] aol.com> wrote: In Santa Barbara our "Wet Wednesday" Regatta consists of 3 series with 8 race per series and 1 or 2 fun faces in between each series. 1 of the 8 is thrown out in each of the series. The guys wanting 50% thrown out must not have much of a competitive spirit! I can not imagine why someone would want that. I would love to hear their argument for doing so. Daniel Casey "AirTime" Cal 9.2R #75 Santa Barbara, Ca.

Sounds like a rock stars problem. I'd like to have a nickel for every boat I've seen score well when a certain person is on the boat, and poorly when the person is not there. It typically says that the skipper is not very good, but might be OK at driving. Or else the certain person also drives? I've seen boats where a deal was cut with a sailmaker or manufacturer or some such to have a certain person on the boat for the season. The boats wins a high point award when they have never been close in the past (nor will be again). As s skipper, I prefer to compete on my own merits. I've built crews from friends and work associates over the years, and would rather not have "that certain person" on the boat. Too many clashes of opinion, and ways to do things. The sailmaker's boy usually thinks that his way of doing something is the only way to do something. There, I feel better. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Ellison Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:19 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Question for the racers in the group When our club was at 50%, it seemed to reward inconsistency. The last year we scored that way at the end of the season we had a boat that would do really well one week then be last the next tied with a boat was consistently top 3 almost every week. That skipper admitted that they would not have been tied for first if we kept more races. That same skipper is pushing for 100%. They are still sailing just as inconsistently but they do make it every week. The only justification I heard for the 50% was "that's how we've always done it". There were people that were upset when we changed to 30% throw out. I think they were mainly the people who had been around for a while and had set the 50%. Bob From: Allen Edwards<mailto:al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Question for the racers in the group There is none except to give more boats a chance to win assuming the top boats will sit out some races. But if you throw out that many races, you better have some complex tie breaker rules. Allen On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, <ai… [at] aol.com<mailto:ai… [at] aol.com>> wrote: In Santa Barbara our "Wet Wednesday" Regatta consists of 3 series with 8 race per series and 1 or 2 fun faces in between each series. 1 of the 8 is thrown out in each of the series. The guys wanting 50% thrown out must not have much of a competitive spirit! I can not imagine why someone would want that. I would love to hear their argument for doing so. Daniel Casey "AirTime" Cal 9.2R #75 Santa Barbara, Ca.

I concur, Charlie. When the crew become rock stars or rock star talent is obtained to secure performance, the sailing community and the wholesome aspect of sailboat racing is damaged. Having raced with crews as large as 22 and as small as myself alone I believe that I will seek shorthanded sailing in the future as now I do. Throwouts should be in place to prevent one bad race from spoiling a series. I also believe from my experience in sail racing since 1971 the correct balance is about 20%. Sausalito YC breaks a 18 race series into 2 parts. Sail 1 or both. with 2 throwouts in each series. At any given race series there will be the boat to beat and 2 or 3 other boats in contention. Most other boats are out for a nice sail with crew. Few sailors will have the satisfaction of winning a race and fewer still will ever win a major race or a race weekend regatta or for that matter a series. To become a Season Champion takes dedication, effort and perseverance most simply don't have. My Best, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 5:11:59 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Question for the racers in the group Sounds like a rock stars problem. I'd like to have a nickel for every boat I've seen score well when a certain person is on the boat, and poorly when the person is not there. It typically says that the skipper is not very good, but might be OK at driving. Or else the certain person also drives? I've seen boats where a deal was cut with a sailmaker or manufacturer or some such to have a certain person on the boat for the season. The boats wins a high point award when they have never been close in the past (nor will be again). As s skipper, I prefer to compete on my own merits. I've built crews from friends and work associates over the years, and would rather not have "that certain person" on the boat. Too many clashes of opinion, and ways to do things. The sailmaker's boy usually thinks that his way of doing something is the only way to do something. There, I feel better. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Ellison Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:19 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Question for the racers in the group When our club was at 50%, it seemed to reward inconsistency. The last year we scored that way at the end of the season we had a boat that would do really well one week then be last the next tied with a boat was consistently top 3 almost every week. That skipper admitted that they would not have been tied for first if we kept more races. That same skipper is pushing for 100%. They are still sailing just as inconsistently but they do make it every week. The only justification I heard for the 50% was "that's how we've always done it". There were people that were upset when we changed to 30% throw out. I think they were mainly the people who had been around for a while and had set the 50%. Bob >From: Allen Edwards >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:37 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Question for the racers in the group > > >There is none except to give more boats a chance to win assuming the top boats >will sit out some races. But if you throw out that many races, you better have >some complex tie breaker rules. > > > >Allen > > > >On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, <ai… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > >>In Santa Barbara our "Wet Wednesday" Regatta consists of 3 series with 8 race >>per series and 1 or 2 fun faces in between each series. 1 of the 8 is thrown out >>in each of the series. The guys wanting 50% thrown out must not have much of a >>competitive spirit! I can not imagine why someone would want that. I would love >>to hear their argument for doing so. >> >> >>Daniel Casey >>"AirTime" >>Cal 9.2R #75 >>Santa Barbara, Ca. >