List of Cal boats with the steel beam

Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. Thanks, -dave

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "davehammy" <hammmy@...> wrote: > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. > > Thanks, > > -dave > Hi, we have a '74 Cal 3-30 that had it's beam replaced. A good start for that list might be from Alan Storey, he makes replacement beams for Cals. His email is fo… [at] shaw.ca As I understand it, the boats were supposed to have stainless steel beams, but when they were being built the boatworks made a little material change, to galvenized steel instead. The process usually can be done in the water, we can give some instuctions and pics of the procedure. Alan is in Vancouver, BC and has advised some people to go to local fabricators when he is too busy. Hope this helps. TC Robertson-Whidbey Island, WA

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "TC" <tcglass@...> wrote: > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: > > > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -dave > > > > Hi, we have a '74 Cal 3-30 that had it's beam replaced. A good start for that list might be from Alan Storey, he makes replacement beams for Cals. His email is fortyfunctions@... As I understand it, the boats were supposed to have stainless steel beams, but when they were being built the boatworks made a little material change, to galvenized steel instead. The process usually can be done in the water, we can give some instuctions and pics of the procedure. Alan is in Vancouver, BC and has advised some people to go to local fabricators when he is too busy. Hope this helps. TC Robertson-Whidbey Island, WA > Thanks, TC. I have sent an email to the address provided. So far, I know the 2-29 and 3-30 have the beam and hopefully Alan can add to the list. -dave

TC, Glad to discover another 3-30 owner on the Sound. Which boat do you have? I've been owned by Nemesis for 15 years, and think I've seen most of the resident 3-30 population. Nemesis is a '74, hull #127, and Alan made the work of art in my bilge about six years ago. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New > Topic > > Messages in this topic (2) > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 6 New Photos 15 > Visit Your Group > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use > . > >

I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if I should be worried about this. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "davehammy" <hammmy@...> wrote: > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. > > Thanks, > > -dave >

We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: > > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if I should be worried about this. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: > > > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -dave > > >

if you have bolts or nuts in the head area in sole or floor area you have a beam edward cal 29 36...harbor fright sells a really neat inspection tool a bore a scope? color that you can see flexiable 36" snake thing poke into bilge area ... milwawkee makes one also but 4 X times the price ... home depot has 10 day return policy but their s is black white... and dosen't have removeable wireless color scren good luck From: sttlejo <st… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:47 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: > > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if I >should be worried about this. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: > > > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams >embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of >the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming >across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it >again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and >post in the Files section of the group. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -dave > > >

Now your making me nervous... I assumed I didn't have a beam, but I do have nuts and bolts in the head area.. They were used by the previous owner to mount a potti.. Boat is a cal28 1964. Too old for the beam, right? Or were you talking about other bolts..? I will like at the print provided when I'm on a real machine. Thanks! On Feb 24, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > if you have bolts or nuts in the head area in sole or floor area you have a beam > edward cal 29 36...harbor fright sells a really neat inspection tool a bore a scope? > color that you can see flexiable 36" snake thing poke into bilge area ... milwawkee > makes one also but 4 X times the price ... home depot has 10 day return policy > but their s is black white... and dosen't have removeable wireless color scren > good luck > > > From: sttlejo <st… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:47 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam > > > > > We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: > > > > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if I should be worried about this. > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -dave > > > > > > >

Adam, I haven't seen the 28 up close but I think it is just a larger version of the 25. On my old 25, the mast was deck-stepped and did not have the "dreaded beam". The same goes for our old 27 pop-top. Our 40 is keel-stepped and does have the beam but doesn't need replacement yet. If the 28 is deck-stepped, I bet you don't have a beam. Mike M. On 2/25/2011 10:37 AM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > > Now your making me nervous... I assumed I didn't have a beam, but I do > have nuts and bolts in the head area.. They were used by the previous > owner to mount a potti.. Boat is a cal28 1964. Too old for the beam, > right? > > Or were you talking about other bolts..? I will like at the print > provided when I'm on a real machine. > > Thanks! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 24, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net > <mailto:he… [at] sbcglobal.net>> wrote: > >> if you have bolts or nuts in the head area in sole or floor area you >> have a beam >> edward cal 29 36...harbor fright sells a really neat inspection tool >> a bore a scope? >> color that you can see flexiable 36" snake thing poke into bilge area >> ... milwawkee >> makes one also but 4 X times the price ... home depot has 10 day >> return policy >> but their s is black white... and dosen't have removeable wireless >> color scren >> good luck >> >> >> *From:* sttlejo <st… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:st… [at] yahoo.com>> >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:47 PM >> *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam >> >> >> >> We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. >> >> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, >> "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: >> > >> > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no >> idea if I should be worried about this. >> > >> > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel >> beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has >> compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I >> vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the >> internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a >> list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files >> section of the group. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > -dave >> > > >> > >> > > >

Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam. Instead of making the beam like the original, consider making it up of 2 pieces of 1" thick strong wood ( White Oak, Black Locust, etc.) and sandwich a flame cut piece of 1/4" steel between the 2 pieces of wood. Bolt it together. This would make it easier and less expensive to build. I would think it would last for another 15 to 20 years. Maybe some the engineers in the group could determine if this would be strong enough. Remember this is just a thought that came into my deteriorating mind. Bert Pesak 1989 Cal 28 On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > Now your making me nervous... I assumed I didn't have a beam, but I do have > nuts and bolts in the head area.. They were used by the previous owner to > mount a potti.. Boat is a cal28 1964. Too old for the beam, right? > > Or were you talking about other bolts..? I will like at the print provided > when I'm on a real machine. > > Thanks! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 24, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > > if you have bolts or nuts in the head area in sole or floor area you have > a beam > edward cal 29 36...harbor fright sells a really neat inspection tool a bore > a scope? > color that you can see flexiable 36" snake thing poke into bilge area ... > milwawkee > makes one also but 4 X times the price ... home depot has 10 day return > policy > but their s is black white... and dosen't have removeable wireless color > scren > good luck > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* sttlejo <st… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:47 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam > > > > > > We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. > > --- In <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, > "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: > > > > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if > I should be worried about this. > > > > --- In <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, > "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams > embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list > of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember > coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to > find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a > document of it and post in the Files section of the group. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -dave > > > > > > > >

I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: > Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam. > > > Instead of making the beam like the original, consider making it up of 2 pieces of 1" thick strong wood ( White Oak, Black Locust, etc.) and sandwich a flame cut piece of 1/4" steel between the 2 pieces of wood. Bolt it together. This would make it easier and less expensive to build. I would think it would last for another 15 to 20 years. > > Maybe some the engineers in the group could determine if this would be strong enough. > > Remember this is just a thought that came into my deteriorating mind. > > Bert Pesak > 1989 Cal 28 > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > Now your making me nervous... I assumed I didn't have a beam, but I do have nuts and bolts in the head area.. They were used by the previous owner to mount a potti.. Boat is a cal28 1964. Too old for the beam, right? > > Or were you talking about other bolts..? I will like at the print provided when I'm on a real machine. > > Thanks! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 24, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> >> >> if you have bolts or nuts in the head area in sole or floor area you have a beam >> edward cal 29 36...harbor fright sells a really neat inspection tool a bore a scope? >> color that you can see flexiable 36" snake thing poke into bilge area ... milwawkee >> makes one also but 4 X times the price ... home depot has 10 day return policy >> but their s is black white... and dosen't have removeable wireless color scren >> good luck >> >> >> From: sttlejo <st… [at] yahoo.com> >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:47 PM >> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam >> >> >> >> >> We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. >> >> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: >> > >> > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if I should be worried about this. >> > >> > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > -dave >> > > >> > >> >> >> > > > >

As far as I know, the CAL 29 was/is the smallest CAL to have THE BEAM - at least the under-floor steel beam that is under discussion. The bolts/nuts would be going through the main bulkhead (attached to vertical flanges attached to the beam underneath the bulkhead). It does not mean that some larger CALs do not have that style of under-floor beam. Lapworth originally specified stainless steel for the beam, but regular steel was used in production to cut costs. So be it 40+ (and even almost 50) years ago. I don't think they dreamed that we would be discussing this topic in 2011. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 10:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam Now your making me nervous... I assumed I didn't have a beam, but I do have nuts and bolts in the head area.. They were used by the previous owner to mount a potti.. Boat is a cal28 1964. Too old for the beam, right? Or were you talking about other bolts..? I will like at the print provided when I'm on a real machine. Thanks! On Feb 24, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net<mailto:he… [at] sbcglobal.net>> wrote: if you have bolts or nuts in the head area in sole or floor area you have a beam edward cal 29 36...harbor fright sells a really neat inspection tool a bore a scope? color that you can see flexiable 36" snake thing poke into bilge area ... milwawkee makes one also but 4 X times the price ... home depot has 10 day return policy but their s is black white... and dosen't have removeable wireless color scren good luck From: sttlejo <st… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:st… [at] yahoo.com>> To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:47 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. --- In <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: > > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if I should be worried about this. > > --- In <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: > > > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -dave > > >

Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam. Instead of making the beam like the original, consider making it up of 2 pieces of 1" thick strong wood ( White Oak, Black Locust, etc.) and sandwich a flame cut piece of 1/4" steel between the 2 pieces of wood. Bolt it together. This would make it easier and less expensive to build. I would think it would last for another 15 to 20 years. Maybe some the engineers in the group could determine if this would be strong enough. Remember this is just a thought that came into my deteriorating mind. Bert Pesak 1989 Cal 28 On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com<mailto:th… [at] gmail.com>> wrote: Now your making me nervous... I assumed I didn't have a beam, but I do have nuts and bolts in the head area.. They were used by the previous owner to mount a potti.. Boat is a cal28 1964. Too old for the beam, right? Or were you talking about other bolts..? I will like at the print provided when I'm on a real machine. Thanks! On Feb 24, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net<mailto:he… [at] sbcglobal.net>> wrote: if you have bolts or nuts in the head area in sole or floor area you have a beam edward cal 29 36...harbor fright sells a really neat inspection tool a bore a scope? color that you can see flexiable 36" snake thing poke into bilge area ... milwawkee makes one also but 4 X times the price ... home depot has 10 day return policy but their s is black white... and dosen't have removeable wireless color scren good luck From: sttlejo <st… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:st… [at] yahoo.com>> To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:47 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. --- In <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: > > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if I should be worried about this. > > --- In <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: > > > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a document of it and post in the Files section of the group. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -dave > > >

I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com > wrote: > > > Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in > the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon > beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if > properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot > about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the > usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. > > Cheers > Charlie > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Terry Spencer > *Sent:* Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam > > I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation > and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. > > Terry Spencer > > > On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: > > Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam. > > Instead of making the beam like the original, consider making it up of 2 > pieces of 1" thick strong wood ( White Oak, Black Locust, etc.) and sandwich > a flame cut piece of 1/4" steel between the 2 pieces of wood. Bolt it > together. This would make it easier and less expensive to build. I would > think it would last for another 15 to 20 years. > > Maybe some the engineers in the group could determine if this would be > strong enough. > > Remember this is just a thought that came into my deteriorating mind. > > Bert Pesak > 1989 Cal 28 > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Now your making me nervous... I assumed I didn't have a beam, but I do >> have nuts and bolts in the head area.. They were used by the previous owner >> to mount a potti.. Boat is a cal28 1964. Too old for the beam, right? >> >> Or were you talking about other bolts..? I will like at the print provided >> when I'm on a real machine. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 24, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> if you have bolts or nuts in the head area in sole or floor area you have >> a beam >> edward cal 29 36...harbor fright sells a really neat inspection tool a >> bore a scope? >> color that you can see flexiable 36" snake thing poke into bilge area ... >> milwawkee >> makes one also but 4 X times the price ... home depot has 10 day return >> policy >> but their s is black white... and dosen't have removeable wireless color >> scren >> good luck >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* sttlejo <st… [at] yahoo.com> >> *To:* <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:47 PM >> *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam >> >> >> >> >> >> We have a 77 cal 34-3 and no steel beam. >> >> --- In <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, >> "gpeacock666" <gpeacock666@...> wrote: >> > >> > I too would love to see this list. I have a Cal 3-34 and have no idea if >> I should be worried about this. >> > >> > --- In <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, >> "davehammy" <hammmy@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Hello all, I'm a new member looking for information on the steel beams >> embedded in some of the Cals. I am wondering if anyone has compiled a list >> of the models that are afflicted by the steel beam. I vaguely remember >> coming across a list on the backroads of the internet but I can't seem to >> find it again. If we can assemble a list, I would be happy to make a >> document of it and post in the Files section of the group. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > -dave >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> > > > >

Ah, the dreaded beam. I love working with epoxy (duh) so it's probably not a surprise that I drew up a plan for a plywood beam sheathed in tri-axial cloth and resin. I discussed it with a variety of people, including Roger Jones and maybe even Brian Cleverly. Weight would be an issue and the attachment points to the bulkhead seemed problematical and ugly. All problems that could be worked out. It would need careful encapsulation to avoid internal rot. I also thought about Carbon Fiber, but there are galvanic issues that make it a nightmare where fasteners would come in contact with it. With a plywood core, the epoxy/glass was the best idea, and I proposed making it an intergral part of the main bulkhead (which I was replacing anyway.) There was no question that it would be more than strong enough, and quite a bit stiffer than the stainless, but also heavier and complicated to make and attach. Lots of mods to sift through to make it work. Roger was pretty adamant that a wooden beam was a much bigger and more complex solution to a problem that didn't exist -- absent the years of corrosion from not using a stainless beam in the original construction. And later, the guy that eventually fabricated my beam told me that if Jensen had sent the beams out to be "hot-dip galvanized" instead of just coating them with a can of spray-zinc, we wouldn't have ended up standing over the pile of rust that I gave to him as a pattern. He recommend I save my money on the stainless, but the next day found a piece of stock that was pretty cheap and I didn't want to wait for the hot-dip process and shipping out and back so I ended up with the stainless beam, which was my preference, despite his pronouncement. I got bids from the $600 to $900 range from a variety of welding/machine shops, but lucked out and found a guy that liked boats, was semi-retired and worked cheap with years (decades) of experience. His shop has been gone for a while now or I would be referring all to him. He wanted more time for his RV and Grand-kids and I assume he has it. I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I've been out the last two nights at sunset for a little day-sail and am getting ramped up for spring and some Island Trips. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: > Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam. >

need/want crew? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: dw… [at] me.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:08:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam Ah, the dreaded beam. I love working with epoxy (duh) so it's probably not a surprise that I drew up a plan for a plywood beam sheathed in tri-axial cloth and resin. I discussed it with a variety of people, including Roger Jones and maybe even Brian Cleverly. Weight would be an issue and the attachment points to the bulkhead seemed problematical and ugly. All problems that could be worked out. It would need careful encapsulation to avoid internal rot. I also thought about Carbon Fiber, but there are galvanic issues that make it a nightmare where fasteners would come in contact with it. With a plywood core, the epoxy/glass was the best idea, and I proposed making it an intergral part of the main bulkhead (which I was replacing anyway.) There was no question that it would be more than strong enough, and quite a bit stiffer than the stainless, but also heavier and complicated to make and attach. Lots of mods to sift through to make it work. Roger was pretty adamant that a wooden beam was a much bigger and more complex solution to a problem that didn't exist -- absent the years of corrosion from not using a stainless beam in the original construction. And later, the guy that eventually fabricated my beam told me that if Jensen had sent the beams out to be "hot-dip galvanized" instead of just coating them with a can of spray-zinc, we wouldn't have ended up standing over the pile of rust that I gave to him as a pattern. He recommend I save my money on the stainless, but the next day found a piece of stock that was pretty cheap and I didn't want to wait for the hot-dip process and shipping out and back so I ended up with the stainless beam, which was my preference, despite his pronouncement. I got bids from the $600 to $900 range from a variety of welding/machine shops, but lucked out and found a guy that liked boats, was semi-retired and worked cheap with years (decades) of experience. His shop has been gone for a while now or I would be referring all to him. He wanted more time for his RV and Grand-kids and I assume he has it. I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I've been out the last two nights at sunset for a little day-sail and am getting ramped up for spring and some Island Trips. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam.

Wilke, You say 'galvanic issues regarding carbon fiber and fastners'. Does that mean we can expect the bolts holding the carbon fiber panels to the aluminum parts of the Boeing 787 to corrode, and duck and cover when they dintegrate, and out of the sky? Maybe we shouldn't be in any hurry looking forward to seeing flocks of these new airliners swarming overhead? It would be a distraction to me watching my tell-tales and trying to watch where I'm going (my crew is usually gazing off towards the sea scape as if they he or they were on an excursion cruise, and not focused on keeping a look out). Jerry --- On Fri, 2/25/11, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 7:08 PM Ah, the dreaded beam. I love working with epoxy (duh) so it's probably not a surprise that I drew up a plan for a plywood beam sheathed in tri-axial cloth and resin. I discussed it with a variety of people, including Roger Jones and maybe even Brian Cleverly. Weight would be an issue and the attachment points to the bulkhead seemed problematical and ugly. All problems that could be worked out. It would need careful encapsulation to avoid internal rot. I also thought about Carbon Fiber, but there are galvanic issues that make it a nightmare where fasteners would come in contact with it. With a plywood core, the epoxy/glass was the best idea, and I proposed making it an intergral part of the main bulkhead (which I was replacing anyway.) There was no question that it would be more than strong enough, and quite a bit stiffer than the stainless, but also heavier and complicated to make and attach. Lots of mods to sift through to make it work. Roger was pretty adamant that a wooden beam was a much bigger and more complex solution to a problem that didn't exist -- absent the years of corrosion from not using a stainless beam in the original construction. And later, the guy that eventually fabricated my beam told me that if Jensen had sent the beams out to be "hot-dip galvanized" instead of just coating them with a can of spray-zinc, we wouldn't have ended up standing over the pile of rust that I gave to him as a pattern. He recommend I save my money on the stainless, but the next day found a piece of stock that was pretty cheap and I didn't want to wait for the hot-dip process and shipping out and back so I ended up with the stainless beam, which was my preference, despite his pronouncement. I got bids from the $600 to $900 range from a variety of welding/machine shops, but lucked out and found a guy that liked boats, was semi-retired and worked cheap with years (decades) of experience. His shop has been gone for a while now or I would be referring all to him. He wanted more time for his RV and Grand-kids and I assume he has it. I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I've been out the last two nights at sunset for a little day-sail and am getting ramped up for spring and some Island Trips. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. CheersCharlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam.

Who says there's any fasteners on the 787? Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:22 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: Wilke, You say 'galvanic issues regarding carbon fiber and fastners'. Does that mean we can expect the bolts holding the carbon fiber panels to the aluminum parts of the Boeing 787 to corrode, and duck and cover when they dintegrate, and out of the sky? Maybe we shouldn't be in any hurry looking forward to seeing flocks of these new airliners swarming overhead? It would be a distraction to me watching my tell-tales and trying to watch where I'm going (my crew is usually gazing off towards the sea scape as if they he or they were on an excursion cruise, and not focused on keeping a look out). Jerry --- On Fri, 2/25/11, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 7:08 PM Ah, the dreaded beam. I love working with epoxy (duh) so it's probably not a surprise that I drew up a plan for a plywood beam sheathed in tri-axial cloth and resin. I discussed it with a variety of people, including Roger Jones and maybe even Brian Cleverly. Weight would be an issue and the attachment points to the bulkhead seemed problematical and ugly. All problems that could be worked out. It would need careful encapsulation to avoid internal rot. I also thought about Carbon Fiber, but there are galvanic issues that make it a nightmare where fasteners would come in contact with it. With a plywood core, the epoxy/glass was the best idea, and I proposed making it an intergral part of the main bulkhead (which I was replacing anyway.) There was no question that it would be more than strong enough, and quite a bit stiffer than the stainless, but also heavier and complicated to make and attach. Lots of mods to sift through to make it work. Roger was pretty adamant that a wooden beam was a much bigger and more complex solution to a problem that didn't exist -- absent the years of corrosion from not using a stainless beam in the original construction. And later, the guy that eventually fabricated my beam told me that if Jensen had sent the beams out to be "hot-dip galvanized" instead of just coating them with a can of spray-zinc, we wouldn't have ended up standing over the pile of rust that I gave to him as a pattern. He recommend I save my money on the stainless, but the next day found a piece of stock that was pretty cheap and I didn't want to wait for the hot-dip process and shipping out and back so I ended up with the stainless beam, which was my preference, despite his pronouncement. I got bids from the $600 to $900 range from a variety of welding/machine shops, but lucked out and found a guy that liked boats, was semi-retired and worked cheap with years (decades) of experience. His shop has been gone for a while now or I would be referring all to him. He wanted more time for his RV and Grand-kids and I assume he has it. I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I've been out the last two nights at sunset for a little day-sail and am getting ramped up for spring and some Island Trips. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: > Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam. >

Come on out and we'll do Santa Cruz Island this time. It's a great place to drop the hook and hang out. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 8:21 PM, r good wrote: need/want crew? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: dw… [at] me.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:08:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam Ah, the dreaded beam. I love working with epoxy (duh) so it's probably not a surprise that I drew up a plan for a plywood beam sheathed in tri-axial cloth and resin. I discussed it with a variety of people, including Roger Jones and maybe even Brian Cleverly. Weight would be an issue and the attachment points to the bulkhead seemed problematical and ugly. All problems that could be worked out. It would need careful encapsulation to avoid internal rot. I also thought about Carbon Fiber, but there are galvanic issues that make it a nightmare where fasteners would come in contact with it. With a plywood core, the epoxy/glass was the best idea, and I proposed making it an intergral part of the main bulkhead (which I was replacing anyway.) There was no question that it would be more than strong enough, and quite a bit stiffer than the stainless, but also heavier and complicated to make and attach. Lots of mods to sift through to make it work. Roger was pretty adamant that a wooden beam was a much bigger and more complex solution to a problem that didn't exist -- absent the years of corrosion from not using a stainless beam in the original construction. And later, the guy that eventually fabricated my beam told me that if Jensen had sent the beams out to be "hot-dip galvanized" instead of just coating them with a can of spray-zinc, we wouldn't have ended up standing over the pile of rust that I gave to him as a pattern. He recommend I save my money on the stainless, but the next day found a piece of stock that was pretty cheap and I didn't want to wait for the hot-dip process and shipping out and back so I ended up with the stainless beam, which was my preference, despite his pronouncement. I got bids from the $600 to $900 range from a variety of welding/machine shops, but lucked out and found a guy that liked boats, was semi-retired and worked cheap with years (decades) of experience. His shop has been gone for a while now or I would be referring all to him. He wanted more time for his RV and Grand-kids and I assume he has it. I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I've been out the last two nights at sunset for a little day-sail and am getting ramped up for spring and some Island Trips. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam.

Hmmm... when I get aboard, I'll be checking for cracks in the fillets at the bulkheads. Old is new again. I guess if they get leaks around the windows, they'll be calling Mark Plastics. Joe DeMers will be getting calls for engine work. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Wilkie Owen Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:38 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam Who says there's any fasteners on the 787? Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:22 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: Wilke, You say 'galvanic issues regarding carbon fiber and fastners'. Does that mean we can expect the bolts holding the carbon fiber panels to the aluminum parts of the Boeing 787 to corrode, and duck and cover when they dintegrate, and out of the sky? Maybe we shouldn't be in any hurry looking forward to seeing flocks of these new airliners swarming overhead? It would be a distraction to me watching my tell-tales and trying to watch where I'm going (my crew is usually gazing off towards the sea scape as if they he or they were on an excursion cruise, and not focused on keeping a look out). Jerry --- On Fri, 2/25/11, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com<mailto:dw… [at] me.com>> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com<mailto:dw… [at] me.com>> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 7:08 PM Ah, the dreaded beam. I love working with epoxy (duh) so it's probably not a surprise that I drew up a plan for a plywood beam sheathed in tri-axial cloth and resin. I discussed it with a variety of people, including Roger Jones and maybe even Brian Cleverly. Weight would be an issue and the attachment points to the bulkhead seemed problematical and ugly. All problems that could be worked out. It would need careful encapsulation to avoid internal rot. I also thought about Carbon Fiber, but there are galvanic issues that make it a nightmare where fasteners would come in contact with it. With a plywood core, the epoxy/glass was the best idea, and I proposed making it an intergral part of the main bulkhead (which I was replacing anyway.) There was no question that it would be more than strong enough, and quite a bit stiffer than the stainless, but also heavier and complicated to make and attach. Lots of mods to sift through to make it work. Roger was pretty adamant that a wooden beam was a much bigger and more complex solution to a problem that didn't exist -- absent the years of corrosion from not using a stainless beam in the original construction. And later, the guy that eventually fabricated my beam told me that if Jensen had sent the beams out to be "hot-dip galvanized" instead of just coating them with a can of spray-zinc, we wouldn't have ended up standing over the pile of rust that I gave to him as a pattern. He recommend I save my money on the stainless, but the next day found a piece of stock that was pretty cheap and I didn't want to wait for the hot-dip process and shipping out and back so I ended up with the stainless beam, which was my preference, despite his pronouncement. I got bids from the $600 to $900 range from a variety of welding/machine shops, but lucked out and found a guy that liked boats, was semi-retired and worked cheap with years (decades) of experience. His shop has been gone for a while now or I would be referring all to him. He wanted more time for his RV and Grand-kids and I assume he has it. I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I've been out the last two nights at sunset for a little day-sail and am getting ramped up for spring and some Island Trips. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com<x-msg://46/mc/compose?to=hu… [at] bah.com>> wrote: Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<x-msg://46/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<x-msg://46/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<x-msg://46/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam.

In Huatulco Mexico I am in the process of replacing the beam on my Cal 29 ”Ariel” with a solid piece of wood. The wood is called Macuil , it’s a hard wood but soft compared to the hard hardwood they have here. The locals say it is the best for boat building because it absorbs epoxy well. I haven’t put it in yet but I’m thinking that I will be able to leave one side of the beam exposed and therefore be not only able to check, in the future, on the integrity of the beam but also be able to enjoy the color of the exposed wood. I have also had them cut another “beam” to replace the forward bulkhead and with a slatted floor, the head area will become a shower. (I hope) From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: viernes, 25 de febrero de 2011 11:22 p.m. To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam Wilke, You say 'galvanic issues regarding carbon fiber and fastners'. Does that mean we can expect the bolts holding the carbon fiber panels to the aluminum parts of the Boeing 787 to corrode, and duck and cover when they dintegrate, and out of the sky? Maybe we shouldn't be in any hurry looking forward to seeing flocks of these new airliners swarming overhead? It would be a distraction to me watching my tell-tales and trying to watch where I'm going (my crew is usually gazing off towards the sea scape as if they he or they were on an excursion cruise, and not focused on keeping a look out). Jerry --- On Fri, 2/25/11, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 7:08 PM Ah, the dreaded beam. I love working with epoxy (duh) so it's probably not a surprise that I drew up a plan for a plywood beam sheathed in tri-axial cloth and resin. I discussed it with a variety of people, including Roger Jones and maybe even Brian Cleverly. Weight would be an issue and the attachment points to the bulkhead seemed problematical and ugly. All problems that could be worked out. It would need careful encapsulation to avoid internal rot. I also thought about Carbon Fiber, but there are galvanic issues that make it a nightmare where fasteners would come in contact with it. With a plywood core, the epoxy/glass was the best idea, and I proposed making it an intergral part of the main bulkhead (which I was replacing anyway.) There was no question that it would be more than strong enough, and quite a bit stiffer than the stainless, but also heavier and complicated to make and attach. Lots of mods to sift through to make it work. Roger was pretty adamant that a wooden beam was a much bigger and more complex solution to a problem that didn't exist -- absent the years of corrosion from not using a stainless beam in the original construction. And later, the guy that eventually fabricated my beam told me that if Jensen had sent the beams out to be "hot-dip galvanized" instead of just coating them with a can of spray-zinc, we wouldn't have ended up standing over the pile of rust that I gave to him as a pattern. He recommend I save my money on the stainless, but the next day found a piece of stock that was pretty cheap and I didn't want to wait for the hot-dip process and shipping out and back so I ended up with the stainless beam, which was my preference, despite his pronouncement. I got bids from the $600 to $900 range from a variety of welding/machine shops, but lucked out and found a guy that liked boats, was semi-retired and worked cheap with years (decades) of experience. His shop has been gone for a while now or I would be referring all to him. He wanted more time for his RV and Grand-kids and I assume he has it. I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I've been out the last two nights at sunset for a little day-sail and am getting ramped up for spring and some Island Trips. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. Cheers Charlie _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam.

On 2/25/2011 10:08 PM, David Wilkie Owen wrote: > > I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get > a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I send favorable thoughts to them via mental telepathy all the time. It's almost obscene how many times my wonderful Cal 20 has repaid her purchase price in fun and big smiles. An honest, well-designed product deserves admiration. We all know the principal design or construction defects in our Cals, but when I see the complexity of the systems on many new sailing yachts, and when I see how much of the price seems to be absorbed by gadgets and doohickies, I really wonder what kind of design & construction compromises will manifest themselves in those boats 40-some years hence. Chris Campbell >

Chris, I do not believe a lot of those boats will be around 40 years hence. A toast to Mr. Lapworth and Mr. Jensen. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 8:53 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam On 2/25/2011 10:08 PM, David Wilkie Owen wrote: I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I send favorable thoughts to them via mental telepathy all the time. It's almost obscene how many times my wonderful Cal 20 has repaid her purchase price in fun and big smiles. An honest, well-designed product deserves admiration. We all know the principal design or construction defects in our Cals, but when I see the complexity of the systems on many new sailing yachts, and when I see how much of the price seems to be absorbed by gadgets and doohickies, I really wonder what kind of design & construction compromises will manifest themselves in those boats 40-some years hence. Chris Campbell

On 2/27/2011 9:04 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Chris, I do not believe a lot of those boats will be around 40 years > hence. When I look at some of them, I hope not. My other boat turns 50 this year and pleases lots of eyes, judging from the compliments she collects. The Cal 20 is 43 and pleases my eye mightily, although others do not praise her so often. What matters is that I smile as I row away from the mooring. > A toast to Mr. Lapworth and Mr. Jensen. Frequently. Chris Campbell >

I'm guessing the Boeing people are aware of the problem, probably much more so than my club that has a carbon fiber I-14. When we first got the boat the lower pintle, which is a stainless pin mounted in an aluminum base, had the aluminum base severely corroded away. The boat lived on salt water before it was donated to us. The pintle was replaced, and since our club is on a lake it was thought no more corrosion problems. 5 years later a new pintle had to be purchased due to corrosion again. We don't have this problem on any of our other boats which are fiberglass. My guess is that we should have hosed down the inside of the tanks to remove the salt. John --- On Fri, 2/25/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:22 PM Wilke, You say 'galvanic issues regarding carbon fiber and fastners'. Does that mean we can expect the bolts holding the carbon fiber panels to the aluminum parts of the Boeing 787 to corrode, and duck and cover when they dintegrate, and out of the sky? Maybe we shouldn't be in any hurry looking forward to seeing flocks of these new airliners swarming overhead? It would be a distraction to me watching my tell-tales and trying to watch where I'm going (my crew is usually gazing off towards the sea scape as if they he or they were on an excursion cruise, and not focused on keeping a look out). Jerry --- On Fri, 2/25/11, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 7:08 PM Ah, the dreaded beam. I love working with epoxy (duh) so it's probably not a surprise that I drew up a plan for a plywood beam sheathed in tri-axial cloth and resin. I discussed it with a variety of people, including Roger Jones and maybe even Brian Cleverly. Weight would be an issue and the attachment points to the bulkhead seemed problematical and ugly. All problems that could be worked out. It would need careful encapsulation to avoid internal rot. I also thought about Carbon Fiber, but there are galvanic issues that make it a nightmare where fasteners would come in contact with it. With a plywood core, the epoxy/glass was the best idea, and I proposed making it an intergral part of the main bulkhead (which I was replacing anyway.) There was no question that it would be more than strong enough, and quite a bit stiffer than the stainless, but also heavier and complicated to make and attach. Lots of mods to sift through to make it work. Roger was pretty adamant that a wooden beam was a much bigger and more complex solution to a problem that didn't exist -- absent the years of corrosion from not using a stainless beam in the original construction. And later, the guy that eventually fabricated my beam told me that if Jensen had sent the beams out to be "hot-dip galvanized" instead of just coating them with a can of spray-zinc, we wouldn't have ended up standing over the pile of rust that I gave to him as a pattern. He recommend I save my money on the stainless, but the next day found a piece of stock that was pretty cheap and I didn't want to wait for the hot-dip process and shipping out and back so I ended up with the stainless beam, which was my preference, despite his pronouncement. I got bids from the $600 to $900 range from a variety of welding/machine shops, but lucked out and found a guy that liked boats, was semi-retired and worked cheap with years (decades) of experience. His shop has been gone for a while now or I would be referring all to him. He wanted more time for his RV and Grand-kids and I assume he has it. I suggest we CC the server in the sky and let Jack, Bill and Roger get a laugh out of how long we have been enjoying these wonderful Cal boats. I've been out the last two nights at sunset for a little day-sail and am getting ramped up for spring and some Island Trips. Wilkie On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: I have been following this with some interest. The equivalent on Papoose is the mast step, which is more or less an 8x8 5 feet long resting on 5 or 6 2x8's cut to fit the curvature of the hull. I had all this replaced about 4 years ago and it was like getting a new boat it made such a difference in the way she sailed. Has anyone considered making this dreaded beam out of a solid piece of wood instead of steel? We used purple heart, which is similar to white oak but better in some ways. Maybe a stupid idea but I had to ask. Allen On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Carbon fiber's strength is all in how you build it and the way the weave in the plies is overlaid - not a trivial process. Not obvious that a carbon beam would be any cheaper than the stainless. Would it last longer, if properly built, it is said that it would. I don't think we yet know a lot about the long term effects of the environment on the stuff, although the usable lifetime is said to be verrryyy long. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Spencer Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: List of Cal boats with the steel beam I have wondered about carbon fiber? None of the problems of oxidation and probably very strong. But then, I am no engineer. Terry Spencer On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Bert Pesak wrote: Just a thought about the dreaded steel beam.

My Cal 40 was a 1967 model and I replaced everything that wasn't Cal with new high quality stuff. The new owner seems to be very happy and so am I although I have two feet of snow on my front deck right now. Who says it doesn't snow in California? Mike Kennedy On Feb 27, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Chris Campbell wrote: > On 2/27/2011 9:04 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > >> >> >> Chris, I do not believe a lot of those boats will be around 40 >> years hence. > When I look at some of them, I hope not. My other boat turns 50 > this year and pleases lots of eyes, judging from the compliments she > collects. The Cal 20 is 43 and pleases my eye mightily, although > others do not praise her so often. What matters is that I smile as > I row away from the mooring. >> A toast to Mr. Lapworth and Mr. Jensen. > > Frequently. > > Chris Campbell >> > > >

My Cal 40 was a 1967 model and I replaced everything that wasn't Cal with new high quality stuff. The new owner seems to be very happy and so am I although I have two feet of snow on my front deck right now. Who says it doesn't snow in California? Mike Kennedy On Feb 27, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Chris Campbell wrote: > On 2/27/2011 9:04 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > >> >> >> Chris, I do not believe a lot of those boats will be around 40 >> years hence. > When I look at some of them, I hope not. My other boat turns 50 > this year and pleases lots of eyes, judging from the compliments she > collects. The Cal 20 is 43 and pleases my eye mightily, although > others do not praise her so often. What matters is that I smile as > I row away from the mooring. >> A toast to Mr. Lapworth and Mr. Jensen. > > Frequently. > > Chris Campbell >> > > >