cotter pins

nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

West Marine sells cotter pins or split pins as the Brits call them that are made off shore. Some are harder to use and open than others and I suspect that there are different alloys involved. Incidentally Rod Stephens says to never open pins in turnbuckles fully. Just open them at 20-25 degrees on one side of the pin so they can easily be removed to adjust the rig. Tape them of course! They can be reused. My Best, Mike Farrell From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 6:56:20 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

Reggie, I stand traduced and corrected. Have you seen these Velcro things? You can tune the rig without removing cotter pins (which can be painful in several ways). http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/74094--wrap-pins-turnbuckles-package-of-20-5-16-3-8.html I didn't even know they made cotter pins in aluminum. Never considered using aluminum for a high bend application. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:56 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

Brion Toss, rigger from Port Townsend, recommended stainless welding rod for the turnbuckles. 1 6inch length bent into an elongated C goes through both holes at the same time and then is bent back on itself. I am not sure if stainless rod is A2 or A4. I'll get some photos next time I'm down on the boat. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 6:56:20 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

Bob The stainless welding rod comes in a couple of alloys, the one you want is 316-L. Dan R From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Connell Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:31 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Brion Toss, rigger from Port Townsend, recommended stainless welding rod for the turnbuckles. 1 6inch length bent into an elongated C goes through both holes at the same time and then is bent back on itself. I am not sure if stainless rod is A2 or A4. I'll get some photos next time I'm down on the boat. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA

I'm using monel wire, like what is used for holding shrouds to spreaders, or copper wire stripped of insulation for some of my turnbuckles, others have a tiny built in bolt that threads into the stud. So far no problems, altho the copper wire does turn green. Jerry --- On Sat, 2/26/11, Bob Connell <jo… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Bob Connell <jo… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 9:30 AM Brion Toss, rigger from Port Townsend, recommended stainless welding rod for the turnbuckles. 1 6inch length bent into an elongated C goes through both holes at the same time and then is bent back on itself. I am not sure if stainless rod is A2 or A4. I'll get some photos next time I'm down on the boat. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 6:56:20 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

$60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. Keep it real, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 8:06:34 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I stand traduced and corrected. Have you seen these Velcro things? You can tune the rig without removing cotter pins (which can be painful in several ways). http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/74094--wrap-pins-turnbuckles-package-of-20-5-16-3-8.html I didn't even know they made cotter pins in aluminum. Never considered using aluminum for a high bend application. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:56 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

That's the pack of 20, Mike. You can buy them in pairs. They are usually used on boats where the rig is retuned often for differing conditions. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 5:39 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. Keep it real, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 8:06:34 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I stand traduced and corrected. Have you seen these Velcro things? You can tune the rig without removing cotter pins (which can be painful in several ways). http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/74094--wrap-pins-turnbuckles-package-of-20-5-16-3-8.html I didn't even know they made cotter pins in aluminum. Never considered using aluminum for a high bend application. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:56 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

Charlie, Most rigs have 3 stays on port and 3 stays on Stb. 2 pins for each turnbuckle thats 12 pins plus the headstay 2 more Now 14 pins 6 "spares for those I drop overboard." But wait... once the mast is tuned what changes need to be made? Rambler cal 20 #1114 won her YRA Division Season Championship with a new rig halfway thru the season with a dock tuned mast and not since adjusted! Keep it real, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 2:46:20 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins That's the pack of 20, Mike. You can buy them in pairs. They are usually used on boats where the rig is retuned often for differing conditions. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 5:39 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. Keep it real, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 8:06:34 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I stand traduced and corrected. Have you seen these Velcro things? You can tune the rig without removing cotter pins (which can be painful in several ways). http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/74094--wrap-pins-turnbuckles-package-of-20-5-16-3-8.html I didn't even know they made cotter pins in aluminum. Never considered using aluminum for a high bend application. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:56 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

My, my, Mike. I congratulate you on your superior skills. I was just suggesting a way to readily adjust the rig, which many racing sailors do often. Cruisers obviously much less so. By the way, my boats have one upper and one lower shroud on each side. Another method is to put a nut above and below the turnbuckle. One will be a left handed nut and the other right handed. Just tighten against the buckle to hold in place. I just don't like messing with cotter pins. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 6:04 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Charlie, Most rigs have 3 stays on port and 3 stays on Stb. 2 pins for each turnbuckle thats 12 pins plus the headstay 2 more Now 14 pins 6 "spares for those I drop overboard." But wait... once the mast is tuned what changes need to be made? Rambler cal 20 #1114 won her YRA Division Season Championship with a new rig halfway thru the season with a dock tuned mast and not since adjusted! Keep it real, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 2:46:20 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins That's the pack of 20, Mike. You can buy them in pairs. They are usually used on boats where the rig is retuned often for differing conditions. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 5:39 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. Keep it real, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 8:06:34 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I stand traduced and corrected. Have you seen these Velcro things? You can tune the rig without removing cotter pins (which can be painful in several ways). http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/74094--wrap-pins-turnbuckles-package-of-20-5-16-3-8.html I didn't even know they made cotter pins in aluminum. Never considered using aluminum for a high bend application. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:56 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

Just average skills Charlie,I stand on the shoulders of others before me. Persistance and great crew got Rambler to the finish line first and a good phrf rating helped a lot. Read what Rod Stephens has to say about the need to constantly adjust the stays. Cotter pins can be a difficult item to use. Again Rod Stephens" Only bend one side of the pin and then only 20-25 degrees or so you can pull the pins easily but they won't fall out" My Best, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 3:36:46 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins My, my, Mike. I congratulate you on your superior skills. I was just suggesting a way to readily adjust the rig, which many racing sailors do often. Cruisers obviously much less so. By the way, my boats have one upper and one lower shroud on each side. Another method is to put a nut above and below the turnbuckle. One will be a left handed nut and the other right handed. Just tighten against the buckle to hold in place. I just don't like messing with cotter pins. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 6:04 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Charlie, Most rigs have 3 stays on port and 3 stays on Stb. 2 pins for each turnbuckle thats 12 pins plus the headstay 2 more Now 14 pins 6 "spares for those I drop overboard." But wait... once the mast is tuned what changes need to be made? Rambler cal 20 #1114 won her YRA Division Season Championship with a new rig halfway thru the season with a dock tuned mast and not since adjusted! Keep it real, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 2:46:20 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins That's the pack of 20, Mike. You can buy them in pairs. They are usually used on boats where the rig is retuned often for differing conditions. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 5:39 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. Keep it real, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 8:06:34 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I stand traduced and corrected. Have you seen these Velcro things? You can tune the rig without removing cotter pins (which can be painful in several ways). http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/74094--wrap-pins-turnbuckles-package-of-20-5-16-3-8.html I didn't even know they made cotter pins in aluminum. Never considered using aluminum for a high bend application. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:56 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

I thought the exact same thing. When I first saw them I thought, what a great idea! Then I saw the prices! YOW. I'll stick to my stainless, re-usable cotter pins and white vinyl protective tape. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 2:39:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. Keep it real, Mike <!-- { margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} hr { } #hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ads { margin-bottom:10px;} .ad { } .ad p { } .ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} { } #hd { font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .ad { margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} a { color:#1e66ae;} #actions { } #activity { background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} #activity span { font-weight:700;} #activity span:first-child { text-transform:uppercase;} #activity span a { color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} #activity span span { color:#ff7900;} #activity span .underline { text-decoration:underline;} .attach { clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .attach div a { text-decoration:none;} .attach img { padding-right:5px;} .attach label { display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .attach label a { text-decoration:none;} blockquote { } .bold { font-weight:700;} .bold a { text-decoration:none;} dd.last p a { font-weight:700;} dd.last p span { margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.last p span.yshortcuts { margin-right:0;} div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration:none;} div.attach-table { } div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} div p a span.yshortcuts { font-weight:normal;} .green { color:#628c2a;} .MsoNormal { } o { } #photos div { float:left;width:72px;} #photos div div { border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} #photos div label { color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} #reco-category { } #reco-desc { } .replbq { } div a:first-child { margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} { } table { font:100%;} select, input, textarea { font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} pre, code { font:115% monospace;} * { } #logo { padding-bottom:10px;} a { color:#1E66AE;} p a { } p#attach-count span { color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} #reco-head { color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} #ov li a { text-decoration:none;} #ov li { list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} #ov ul { } { } p { } tt { } ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important; } -->

At the risk of going too far with this (the many ways to skin a cat routine), I like a loose rig. However, in a heavy blow, I prefer to tighten it up on the lateral shrouds. Then I hate to leave the boat groaning at the dock (CAL 25s are deck stepped masts as I'm sure CAL 20s are), so I want to ease the tensions. On the 25, moving the masthead fore and aft some has a major effect on lee helm as well. I tried the velcros this year, and they work well. I have also used the left/right nuts (fine threads, by the way) with success. Whenever I mess with cotters in mast stepping and the like, I somehow manage to punch holes in myself and bark my knuckles. Yes, lightly folded pins would help a lot. Then I worry about punching holes in the tape and ripping sails. Just a neurotic. Or as the French would say, "Chacun à son goût." The last word is pronounced "goo". I think it has something to do with preferences in caulking. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Dutton Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:58 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins (Mike) I thought the exact same thing. When I first saw them I thought, what a great idea! Then I saw the prices! YOW. I'll stick to my stainless, re-usable cotter pins and white vinyl protective tape. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 2:39:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. Keep it real, Mike

Hi Charlie, I too sail with a looser state of tune on the uppers and lowers on my Cal 20 with a deck stepped mast, I don't use a Loos Gage but I grab the upper shroud 5 feet from the deck and put about 50 lbs. on it to deflect it 5 inches in one direction so-10" total. I use a ruler to get this dimension. My lowers are a bit tighter but not much. Boats that sail in southern cal use even more deflection. In the strongest wind my mast head falls off to leeward about 8 to 10 inches and mid mast about 3 inches. This releases the leech but at 20k true I reef anyway if alone or wait to 25+ if racing with crew. In those condition I go to a heavier Mainsail than my North which is cut for 20k true by Hood for Sf Bay. I still need to reef but later as sail shape remains in limits.. My leeward shrouds are very slack in any conditions. If I power the mast will move from side to side and any further loosening of the stays produces alarming jerks on the wire. In December I was adopted by a Santa Cruz 27 with Ballenger Spars. The PO had tuned the stays so tightly that I took about 10 full turns off the uppers and 7 or 8 off the lowers before I left the dock. Buzz Ballenger says 1200lbs on the uppers and 800lbs on the lowers is a good starting point. I believe now after the 4th adjustment I sail with about 600lbs on the uppers and 700-750lbs on the lowers, my masthead falls off in the puffs and my lowers keep the mast lower 2/3's in column. I may go looser but the Ballenger spar is very stiff both fore and aft and athwartships. When tightened the 48 to 1 backstay does not put more than an inch or so of curve in the spar and when released completely causes the head stay to get quite slack but the spar remains straight. The PO also left the Baby Stay off so I may be able to induce more bend to remove draft from the main in stronger wind and to prevent pump in a seaway when it is installed. I hope to get out again today for another trial as I have added more purchase to the traveler controls and taken one turn off the uppers and put one turn back on the lowers. My Best, Mike From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 4:50:51 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins (Mike) At the risk of going too far with this (the many ways to skin a cat routine), I like a loose rig. However, in a heavy blow, I prefer to tighten it up on the lateral shrouds. Then I hate to leave the boat groaning at the dock (CAL 25s are deck stepped masts as I'm sure CAL 20s are), so I want to ease the tensions. On the 25, moving the masthead fore and aft some has a major effect on lee helm as well. I tried the velcros this year, and they work well. I have also used the left/right nuts (fine threads, by the way) with success. Whenever I mess with cotters in mast stepping and the like, I somehow manage to punch holes in myself and bark my knuckles. Yes, lightly folded pins would help a lot. Then I worry about punching holes in the tape and ripping sails. Just a neurotic. Or as the French would say, "Chacun à son goût." The last word is pronounced "goo". I think it has something to do with preferences in caulking. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Dutton Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:58 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins (Mike) I thought the exact same thing. When I first saw them I thought, what a great idea! Then I saw the prices! YOW. I'll stick to my stainless, re-usable cotter pins and white vinyl protective tape. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 2:39:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. Keep it real, Mike

Here is Bill's letter about rig tune http://l-36.com/lapworth_letter.php (hit the "+" you get by hovering in the lower right corner of the document to make it larger) <http://l-36.com/lapworth_letter.php>Allen On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 7:29 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Hi Charlie, > I too sail with a looser state of tune on the uppers and > lowers on my Cal 20 with a deck stepped mast, I don't use a Loos Gage but > I grab the upper shroud 5 feet from the deck and put about 50 lbs. on it to > deflect it 5 inches in one direction so-10" total. I use a ruler to get this > dimension. My lowers are a bit tighter but not much. Boats that sail in > southern cal use even more deflection. In the strongest wind my mast head > falls off to leeward about 8 to 10 inches and mid mast about 3 inches. This > releases the leech but at 20k true I reef anyway if alone or wait to 25+ if > racing with crew. In those condition I go to a heavier Mainsail than my > North which is cut for 20k true by Hood for Sf Bay. I still need to reef > but later as sail shape remains in limits.. My leeward shrouds are very > slack in any conditions. If I power the mast will move from side to side > and any further loosening of the stays produces alarming jerks on the wire. > In December I was adopted by a Santa Cruz 27 with Ballenger > Spars. The PO had tuned the stays so tightly that I took about 10 full turns > off the uppers and 7 or 8 off the lowers before I left the dock. Buzz > Ballenger says 1200lbs on the uppers and 800lbs on the lowers is a good > starting point. I believe now after the 4th adjustment I sail with about > 600lbs on the uppers and 700-750lbs on the lowers, my masthead falls off in > the puffs and my lowers keep the mast lower 2/3's in column. I may go > looser but the Ballenger spar is very stiff both fore and aft and > athwartships. When tightened the 48 to 1 backstay does not put more than an > inch or so of curve in the spar and when released completely causes the head > stay to get quite slack but the spar remains straight. The PO also left the > Baby Stay off so I may be able to induce more bend to remove draft from the > main in stronger wind and to prevent pump in a seaway when it is installed. > I hope to get out again today for another trial as I have added more > purchase to the traveler controls and taken one turn off the uppers and put > one turn back on the lowers. > My Best, Mike > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Sun, February 27, 2011 4:50:51 AM > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins (Mike) > > > > At the risk of going too far with this (the many ways to skin a cat > routine), I like a loose rig. However, in a heavy blow, I prefer to tighten > it up on the lateral shrouds. Then I hate to leave the boat groaning at the > dock (CAL 25s are deck stepped masts as I'm sure CAL 20s are), so I want to > ease the tensions. On the 25, moving the masthead fore and aft some has a > major effect on lee helm as well. I tried the velcros this year, and they > work well. I have also used the left/right nuts (fine threads, by the way) > with success. Whenever I mess with cotters in mast stepping and the like, I > somehow manage to punch holes in myself and bark my knuckles. Yes, lightly > folded pins would help a lot. Then I worry about punching holes in the tape > and ripping sails. Just a neurotic. > > Or as the French would say, "Chacun à son goût." The last word is > pronounced "goo". I think it has something to do with preferences in > caulking. > > Cheers > Charlie > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Donald Dutton > *Sent:* Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:58 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins (Mike) > > I thought the exact same thing. When I first saw them I thought, what a > great idea! Then I saw the prices! YOW. I'll stick to my stainless, > re-usable cotter pins and white vinyl protective tape. > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you > didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail > away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. > Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sat, February 26, 2011 2:39:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins > > > > $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE ARE > CRAZY! This is like a stainless steel fender holder that fits over the > lifelines for "sailors who are unable to tie a clove hitch" This is for > people who buy water in 12oz plastic bottles. > Keep it real, Mike > ------------------------------ > ** > > > >

On 2/26/2011 5:39 PM, mike farrell wrote: > $60+ FOR A VELCRO THINGAMGIG TO AVOID COTTERPINS? THEY MUST THINK WE > ARE CRAZY! Of course they do. Look at the stuff that occupies the floor space at West Marine, and I think we (boaters in general) must be crazy. There is a convenience factor, and if you're fiddling with the rig all the time, those little devices might have a convenience factor. Somebody had a little note in /Good Old Boat/ about making similar devices yourself, with velcro supplies from the fabric store. They do not know about boat pricing in those places. Chris Campbell

On 2/26/2011 7:10 PM, mike farrell wrote: > Just average skills Charlie,I stand on the shoulders of others > before me. Persistance and great crew got Rambler to the finish line > first and a good phrf rating helped a lot. Read what Rod Stephens has > to say about the need to constantly adjust the stays. A few years back a bunch of the local schooner sailors chartered /Brilliant/ at Mystic Seaport for a few days. It was such a privilege to be on a vessel that Olin & Rod had created. That was before the decks were replaced, so we walked where they had been. Chris Campbell

The difference between 18-8 and 316 is more than just the alloy it is the standards agency notation. 18-8 is shorthand for X10CrNi18-8 which is the EN-Standard (European) for (among other things) 8% nickel. 316 is the SAE Grade for EN-Standard X5CrNiMo17-12-2. BTW - the SAE equivalent for 18-8 is 301. 316 is considered Marine Grade with high nickel content (10%-14%) and was originally developed for paper mill machinery Regards, Wayne. From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 8:12:02 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

price tag should not be a deterrent for doing things correctly and safely.` Having said that, it would seem 316 should be used anywhere inspection and change out do not occur on a regular basis. However, there should be other appropriate materials for places which are inspected frequently and changed our frequently, at only 1/10th the cost. In this instance, which materials would be appropriate for cotter pins inserted into stainless hardware but examined frequently and replaced periodically? Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: wa… [at] yahoo.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:08:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins The difference between 18-8 and 316 is more than just the alloy it is the standards agency notation. 18-8 is shorthand for X10CrNi18-8 which is the EN-Standard (European) for (among other things) 8% nickel. 316 is the SAE Grade for EN-Standard X5CrNiMo17-12-2. BTW - the SAE equivalent for 18-8 is 301. 316 is considered Marine Grade with high nickel content (10%-14%) and was originally developed for paper mill machinery Regards, Wayne. From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 8:12:02 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

A2 is 304 stainless and A4 is 316 From: Bob Connell <jo… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 12:30:37 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Brion Toss, rigger from Port Townsend, recommended stainless welding rod for the turnbuckles. 1 6inch length bent into an elongated C goes through both holes at the same time and then is bent back on itself. I am not sure if stainless rod is A2 or A4. I'll get some photos next time I'm down on the boat. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 6:56:20 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

A2 is 304 stainless and A4 is 316 From: Bob Connell <jo… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 12:30:37 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Brion Toss, rigger from Port Townsend, recommended stainless welding rod for the turnbuckles. 1 6inch length bent into an elongated C goes through both holes at the same time and then is bent back on itself. I am not sure if stainless rod is A2 or A4. I'll get some photos next time I'm down on the boat. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 6:56:20 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins thanks, charlie. Nope, cotter pin. inside the turn buck;e body, at the threaded end of the tang(?). It would seem 18-8 would be appropriate, but perhaps there are reasons to use the 316? reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins Reggie, I think you are talking clevis pins, the part that goes through the tang rather than the retainer at the end (the cotter pin). I believe 8-18s have more sizes and good corrosion resistance. That is what I use (not that this fact is a ringing endorsement of anything). You can check out McMaster-Carr on the web for sizes. Most stores are limited in available variety/sizes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:12 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] cotter pins nobody cared to comment on cotter pin stainless steel? 18-8 vs 316? is one more brittle? is one better/worse? This is an important topic. I found someone had used an aluminum cotter pin on a shroud turnbuckle on my boat. The ends looked good, but the body inside the turnbuckle tang had turned to powder, Ends fell off when touched. Glad it held together during the storm in the gulf of Mexico. Do you think I'm going to inspect again before launch and replace all cotter pins? Reggie

price tag should not be a deterrent for doing things correctly and safely.` Having said that, it would seem 316 should be used anywhere inspection and change out do not occur on a regular basis. However, there should be other appropriate materials for places which are inspected frequently and changed our frequently, at only 1/10th the cost. In this instance, which materials would be appropriate for cotter pins inserted into stainless hardware but examined frequently and replaced periodically? In fresh water, bronze and stainless steel seem to cohabit happily above the water line. Some of my other boat's bronze turnbuckles have stainless clevis pins (guess why), and some of those have bronze or maybe even brass cotter pins. In addition, the boat's very sturdy roller-reefing gear is a combination of bronze and stainless parts and they have lasted 50 years with no apparent degradation. My mast comes down every fall so we have ample opportunities for inspecting rigging. I use stainless split rings for the clevis pins that are removed and replaced at launch and haul out. All of the turnbuckles have toggles. I leave the toggles on the turnbuckle for the upper shrouds and on the chainplate for the lowers--it simplifies replacement in the right location, and I can tell any new yard crew "remove the split rings and not the cotter pins." And yes, since being duly warned about such things, I now tape the split rings tp prevent accidental removal. Chris Campbell

Bronze and stainless do well together above the water line even in salt water. The bronze is what will suffer if there is corrosion. This page might be helpful http://l-36.com/corrosion.php <http://l-36.com/corrosion.php>Allen On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > > price tag should not be a deterrent for doing things correctly and > safely.` Having said that, it would seem 316 should be used anywhere > inspection and change out do not occur on a regular basis. However, there > should be other appropriate materials for places which are inspected > frequently and changed our frequently, at only 1/10th the cost. In this > instance, which materials would be appropriate for cotter pins inserted into > stainless hardware but examined frequently and replaced periodically? > > > In fresh water, bronze and stainless steel seem to cohabit happily above > the water line. Some of my other boat's bronze turnbuckles have stainless > clevis pins (guess why), and some of those have bronze or maybe even brass > cotter pins. In addition, the boat's very sturdy roller-reefing gear is a > combination of bronze and stainless parts and they have lasted 50 years with > no apparent degradation. > > My mast comes down every fall so we have ample opportunities for inspecting > rigging. > > I use stainless split rings for the clevis pins that are removed and > replaced at launch and haul out. All of the turnbuckles have toggles. I > leave the toggles on the turnbuckle for the upper shrouds and on the > chainplate for the lowers--it simplifies replacement in the right location, > and I can tell any new yard crew "remove the split rings and not the cotter > pins." And yes, since being duly warned about such things, I now tape the > split rings tp prevent accidental removal. > > Chris Campbell > > >