oldest sail? Jerry

our main is 44 years old but probably wasn't sailed as hard as yours...how about this: if you put a dollar a week into your piggy bank, in 41 more years you could buy a new one, maybe sooner if you trade in at just the right time at North? what is the foot and mast attachments, and your hoist and foot measurements? maybe a less used sail could come your way, check with Minney's from time to time also. or, sew some new cloth on your old edges and cut off the old sail? I'll bet the pirates give you a wide berth....anyway, be careful of your main shredding, it can make an awful sound, and become very unwieldly. keep an eye on your topping lift too. I know you deserve a new sail. Helen

Helen, did I say 41 years? Oooops! I recheck my differential equations, and it turns out I made a mistake. Something to do with gray matter, more elusive than the fabled "dark matter" that astrophysicists are seeking, the main is actually 49 years old, originally first set in 1962. After all, the Cal 24 was designed in 1958, during the year of tacky chrome and tail fins. My boat was a kit from Jensen Marine. The brown polyester roving in the bilge is still, speaking of tacky, still sticky. I don't think the boat was sailed a whole lot until I got a hold of her, the running rigging is rather primitive. I had to jury rig traveler blocks using tiny wire blocks which will fit 3/16" polyester braid, but give me 2:1 purchase. It used to have just the screw down traveler clamps, which now both hold down the ends of that line at each end of the traveler, and a tiny wire block, and I'm still using the brown phenolic winches for cranking in the jib, which is usually done by hand with brute force. Very cool, they are counter rotating! Jerry --- On Thu, 3/10/11, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] oldest sail? Jerry To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:17 PM our main is 44 years old but probably wasn't sailed as hard as yours...how about this: if you put a dollar a week into your piggy bank, in 41 more years you could buy a new one, maybe sooner if you trade in at just the right time at North? what is the foot and mast attachments, and your hoist and foot measurements? maybe a less used sail could come your way, check with Minney's from time to time also. or, sew some new cloth on your old edges and cut off the old sail? I'll bet the pirates give you a wide berth....anyway, be careful of your main shredding, it can make an awful sound, and become very unwieldly. keep an eye on your topping lift too. I know you deserve a new sail. Helen

I don't know how old the main was that I destroyed in the Guv Teats Memorial a couple of weeks ago, but I think it predated Nemesis. It was a 9 ouncer that had been cut down from something huge. The sailmaker's logo was Boston- Mt Clemmons MI. I think Mr. Boston moved his loft from there to Pt Edwards, ON (Sarnia) in the late 60's or early 70's. When I bought Nemesis from my brother-in-law in 1994 it came with a full suit of Boston dacron sails, also 3 spinnakers with their accompanying bloopers,a couple of stay sails and God knows what else. The labels were from Pt. Edwards, then Sarnia, and finally Doyle/Boston on the 1991 roller furled 155%. An old sailmaker who had worked on the main for me a couple of times commented that he hadn't seen one like it in a very long time, and when he saw the logo said he had apprenticed with Boston he elder. I was pretty appalled at the $2000+ quote for a dacron race main to replace the old one. Fortunately I remembered that Glenn had told me that the "spare" main, while lighter than the "main" main, was still serviceable. Out of the locker it came, Boston- Pt Edwards logo and all. It's not full battened, but it's probably the 7 oz. Lapworth specified, and it sets very sweetly. I briefly sailed it on the weekend, and will get it out today if the weather holds. I may have dodged a bullet on this one. A club member at TYC is going to take my blown main to make the ever trendy sailcloth shopping bags from it. I get one with the 3-30 logo on it in return. And I'm going to recycle one corner of it into a riding sail for Nemesis. Old sails, and sailors Rule! Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Mar 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Helen Horn wrote: > > our main is 44 years old but probably wasn't sailed as hard as > yours...how about this: if you put a dollar a week into your piggy > bank, in 41 more years you could buy a new one, maybe sooner if you > trade in at just the right time at North? what is the foot and mast > attachments, and your hoist and foot measurements? maybe a less > used sail could come your way, check with Minney's from time to > time also. or, sew some new cloth on your old edges and cut off the > old sail? I'll bet the pirates give you a wide berth....anyway, be > careful of your main shredding, it can make an awful sound, and > become very unwieldly. keep an eye on your topping lift too. I know > you deserve a new sail. Helen > >

I have sailed with 40 year old sails and with new sails. The pleasure of having new sails on Papoose is indescribable. It is a different boat. My new main, which replaced a 10 year old North Sail, means I don't have to reef in conditions where I had 2 reefs in the old main. And the North main was a huge improvement over the old Watts sail main I used for 10 years. The new jibs mean I don't scoop up gallons of water with the baggy genoa. The new laminate 90 almost tacks itself and allows Papoose to point about 5 degrees higher. Old sails will work but realize there would be a huge difference if anyone were to upgrade after sailing with 40 year old sails. Allen On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Fred Haas <ol… [at] seanet.com> wrote: > > > I don't know how old the main was that I destroyed in the Guv Teats > Memorial a couple of weeks ago, but I think it predated Nemesis. It was a 9 > ouncer that had been cut down from something huge. The sailmaker's logo was > Boston- Mt Clemmons MI. I think Mr. Boston moved his loft from there to Pt > Edwards, ON (Sarnia) in the late 60's or early 70's. When I bought Nemesis > from my brother-in-law in 1994 it came with a full suit of Boston dacron > sails, also 3 spinnakers with their accompanying bloopers,a couple of stay > sails and God knows what else. The labels were from Pt. Edwards, then > Sarnia, and finally Doyle/Boston on the 1991 roller furled 155%. An old > sailmaker who had worked on the main for me a couple of times commented that > he hadn't seen one like it in a very long time, and when he saw the logo > said he had apprenticed with Boston he elder. > I was pretty appalled at the $2000+ quote for a dacron race main to replace > the old one. Fortunately I remembered that Glenn had told me that the > "spare" main, while lighter than the "main" main, was still serviceable. Out > of the locker it came, Boston- Pt Edwards logo and all. It's not full > battened, but it's probably the 7 oz. Lapworth specified, and it sets very > sweetly. I briefly sailed it on the weekend, and will get it out today if > the weather holds. I may have dodged a bullet on this one. > A club member at TYC is going to take my blown main to make the ever trendy > sailcloth shopping bags from it. I get one with the 3-30 logo on it in > return. And I'm going to recycle one corner of it into a riding sail for > Nemesis. > Old sails, and sailors Rule! > Fred Haas > 3-30 Nemesis > Tacoma > > > > > On Mar 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Helen Horn wrote: > > > > our main is 44 years old but probably wasn't sailed as hard as yours...how > about this: if you put a dollar a week into your piggy bank, in 41 more > years you could buy a new one, maybe sooner if you trade in at just the > right time at North? what is the foot and mast attachments, and your hoist > and foot measurements? maybe a less used sail could come your way, check > with Minney's from time to time also. or, sew some new cloth on your old > edges and cut off the old sail? I'll bet the pirates give you a wide > berth....anyway, be careful of your main shredding, it can make an awful > sound, and become very unwieldly. keep an eye on your topping lift too. I > know you deserve a new sail. Helen > > > >

Allen, do you bend your wooden mast (as opposed to rake)? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:19 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] oldest sail? Jerry I have sailed with 40 year old sails and with new sails. The pleasure of having new sails on Papoose is indescribable. It is a different boat. My new main, which replaced a 10 year old North Sail, means I don't have to reef in conditions where I had 2 reefs in the old main. And the North main was a huge improvement over the old Watts sail main I used for 10 years. The new jibs mean I don't scoop up gallons of water with the baggy genoa. The new laminate 90 almost tacks itself and allows Papoose to point about 5 degrees higher. Old sails will work but realize there would be a huge difference if anyone were to upgrade after sailing with 40 year old sails. Allen On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Fred Haas <ol… [at] seanet.com<mailto:ol… [at] seanet.com>> wrote: I don't know how old the main was that I destroyed in the Guv Teats Memorial a couple of weeks ago, but I think it predated Nemesis. It was a 9 ouncer that had been cut down from something huge. The sailmaker's logo was Boston- Mt Clemmons MI. I think Mr. Boston moved his loft from there to Pt Edwards, ON (Sarnia) in the late 60's or early 70's. When I bought Nemesis from my brother-in-law in 1994 it came with a full suit of Boston dacron sails, also 3 spinnakers with their accompanying bloopers,a couple of stay sails and God knows what else. The labels were from Pt. Edwards, then Sarnia, and finally Doyle/Boston on the 1991 roller furled 155%. An old sailmaker who had worked on the main for me a couple of times commented that he hadn't seen one like it in a very long time, and when he saw the logo said he had apprenticed with Boston he elder. I was pretty appalled at the $2000+ quote for a dacron race main to replace the old one. Fortunately I remembered that Glenn had told me that the "spare" main, while lighter than the "main" main, was still serviceable. Out of the locker it came, Boston- Pt Edwards logo and all. It's not full battened, but it's probably the 7 oz. Lapworth specified, and it sets very sweetly. I briefly sailed it on the weekend, and will get it out today if the weather holds. I may have dodged a bullet on this one. A club member at TYC is going to take my blown main to make the ever trendy sailcloth shopping bags from it. I get one with the 3-30 logo on it in return. And I'm going to recycle one corner of it into a riding sail for Nemesis. Old sails, and sailors Rule! Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Mar 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Helen Horn wrote: our main is 44 years old but probably wasn't sailed as hard as yours...how about this: if you put a dollar a week into your piggy bank, in 41 more years you could buy a new one, maybe sooner if you trade in at just the right time at North? what is the foot and mast attachments, and your hoist and foot measurements? maybe a less used sail could come your way, check with Minney's from time to time also. or, sew some new cloth on your old edges and cut off the old sail? I'll bet the pirates give you a wide berth....anyway, be careful of your main shredding, it can make an awful sound, and become very unwieldly. keep an eye on your topping lift too. I know you deserve a new sail. Helen

On 3/11/2011 10:53 AM, Fred Haas wrote: > > I don't know how old the main was that I destroyed in the Guv Teats > Memorial a couple of weeks ago, but I think it predated Nemesis. It > was a 9 ouncer that had been cut down from something huge. The > sailmaker's logo was Boston- Mt Clemmons MI. I think Mr. Boston moved > his loft from there to Pt Edwards, ON (Sarnia) in the late 60's or > early 70's. > Boston Sails was a major local supplier in Mt. Clemens, MI. They continued a little past 2000. At some point it became fashionable in that corner of Michigan to organize local governments under the local township name so Mt. Clemens became another address. Detroit-area people can fill in those blanks. Boston made the full set of sails for my other boat in 1961 (main, jib, storm jib, huge genoa, spinnaker) and sold us a "new main" about 1969. I bought a new, smaller genoa about 10 years ago (wow, maybe 18 years ago!). They also made the sail for the old DN iceboat, from class-rules nylon, in 1957, and the original main for my Cal 20 in about 1967. Howard Boston was the founder and his son Skip took over for a while and then they seemed to wither away as a franchisee of one of the national loft brands. My new genoa is labeled Doyle/Boston. I think they had that Ontario loft as a way to deal with customs issues. Their old sails were all provided with cool old green cotton canvas bags, with sail type and number stenciled on, and in the case of the mainsail, the boat's name. I really like those old canvas bags. The old sails all show the typical standards of quality in those days--leather at chafe points, hand stitching in crucial places, neatly tapered boltropes. The original main on the other boat had a /really/ lousy shape and some weird stitch patterns showing. Dad took it to Boston when he was down there on business. Howard Boston took one look and said "That **###@!^&!!! _____(fill in forgotten sailmaker's name)_____ has been recutting my sails again." He sold us a new main that had been made but not picked up for a sister vessel. That sail is still in service about 42 years later. Chris Campbell

It doesn't bend much. I think we measured 1 inch of bend measured at the spreaders when we tensioned up the backstay. The question of how much tension to put on the backstay is a constant one. Every season I put a bit more. I run about 1300-1400 pounds on the forestay. I wrote up the frustrations I had using tension gauges for anyone interested. But with that amount of tension, I don't get much bend. The lowers are fairly loose. That was another thing about the new sail. It was originally cut for 4 inches of bend and didn't work worth a damn. They recut it and made it perfect. Forestay tension is a big issue for me because the guy I sail against has an aluminum rig and fatter wire and puts maybe 5000 pounds on his forestay. I don't really know how much tension he puts but where I take in 1.2 inches on my backstay, he takes in 6 inches. Allen On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com > wrote: > > > Allen, do you bend your wooden mast (as opposed to rake)? > > Cheers > Charlie > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Friday, March 11, 2011 11:19 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] oldest sail? Jerry > > I have sailed with 40 year old sails and with new sails. The pleasure of > having new sails on Papoose is indescribable. It is a different boat. My > new main, which replaced a 10 year old North Sail, means I don't have to > reef in conditions where I had 2 reefs in the old main. And the North main > was a huge improvement over the old Watts sail main I used for 10 years. > The new jibs mean I don't scoop up gallons of water with the baggy genoa. > The new laminate 90 almost tacks itself and allows Papoose to point about 5 > degrees higher. Old sails will work but realize there would be a huge > difference if anyone were to upgrade after sailing with 40 year old sails. > > Allen > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Fred Haas <ol… [at] seanet.com> wrote: > >> >> >> I don't know how old the main was that I destroyed in the Guv Teats >> Memorial a couple of weeks ago, but I think it predated Nemesis. It was a 9 >> ouncer that had been cut down from something huge. The sailmaker's logo was >> Boston- Mt Clemmons MI. I think Mr. Boston moved his loft from there to Pt >> Edwards, ON (Sarnia) in the late 60's or early 70's. When I bought Nemesis >> from my brother-in-law in 1994 it came with a full suit of Boston dacron >> sails, also 3 spinnakers with their accompanying bloopers,a couple of stay >> sails and God knows what else. The labels were from Pt. Edwards, then >> Sarnia, and finally Doyle/Boston on the 1991 roller furled 155%. An old >> sailmaker who had worked on the main for me a couple of times commented that >> he hadn't seen one like it in a very long time, and when he saw the logo >> said he had apprenticed with Boston he elder. >> I was pretty appalled at the $2000+ quote for a dacron race main to >> replace the old one. Fortunately I remembered that Glenn had told me that >> the "spare" main, while lighter than the "main" main, was still serviceable. >> Out of the locker it came, Boston- Pt Edwards logo and all. It's not full >> battened, but it's probably the 7 oz. Lapworth specified, and it sets very >> sweetly. I briefly sailed it on the weekend, and will get it out today if >> the weather holds. I may have dodged a bullet on this one. >> A club member at TYC is going to take my blown main to make the ever >> trendy sailcloth shopping bags from it. I get one with the 3-30 logo on it >> in return. And I'm going to recycle one corner of it into a riding sail for >> Nemesis. >> Old sails, and sailors Rule! >> Fred Haas >> 3-30 Nemesis >> Tacoma >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Helen Horn wrote: >> >> >> >> our main is 44 years old but probably wasn't sailed as hard as >> yours...how about this: if you put a dollar a week into your piggy bank, in >> 41 more years you could buy a new one, maybe sooner if you trade in at just >> the right time at North? what is the foot and mast attachments, and your >> hoist and foot measurements? maybe a less used sail could come your way, >> check with Minney's from time to time also. or, sew some new cloth on your >> old edges and cut off the old sail? I'll bet the pirates give you a wide >> berth....anyway, be careful of your main shredding, it can make an awful >> sound, and become very unwieldly. keep an eye on your topping lift too. I >> know you deserve a new sail. Helen >> >> >> > >