peeewwww smell

Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been well cared for. One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? Mold? I have tried the following -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner -Taken out seat cushions -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with cover, but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL there. Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get rid of it? My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad.

On 3/4/2011 9:21 AM, Compass wrote: > > Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had > been well cared for. > > One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. > > The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated > everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? > Cigars? Mold? > One solution for odors is an ozone generator. Fire restoration companies have big commercial-sized units. Once I left a pot of soup on high, then turned it down and went to a movie. Turns out I turned the wrong electric burner down. Moisture boiled out; temp rose; pan melted through; ingredients were charring. I got home to find a thick haze of steam and smoke. No damage, but wow, did the house stink. The insurance co. paid for the ozone machine for a couple days and the house went from unlivable to no smell at all in a couple days. Ozone will also kill off mold and mildew. You could buy, at least for a while, little ozone generators for your car that plugged into the cigarette lighter. I've got one at home for 120 VAC that came with a pile of junk from an auction. You can kill odors by leaving pans of household ammonia out. You don't get the strong ammonia smell, but it somehow absorbs or neutralizes odors. The other comments about looking for elusive dead critters might be helpful too. Chris Campbell > >

My suggestion is to do as you have already done in removing everything that can absorb water and then: Take everything out of the boat. Wash it down inside with a solution of 4 oz bleach to 1 qt water. Wear a good gas mask. Let it sit a few minutes. Wipe that down and hose if off. Don't put anything back on the boat that smells and wash everything you do put back on. This process will also make your boat faster as you will find you have a lot of stuff you don't need to put back on. I don't personally like using cleaners with detergent in them as stuff can grow on any detergent residue. Make sure your engine compartment is isolated from the living area. Once that is done, I have found the secret is to get some air circulation. I tried a number of things on Papoose to get the humidity down and settled on a low wattage StoDry. I wrote it all up in an article on my web site but it is kind of rambling as I made so many false starts before settling on a simple solution. You might find it useful, not sure. I now keep all the hatches open an inch when gone and it has made a huge difference. Perhaps more vents would help and perhaps your boat has more than mine. If you open a hatch and find everything is wet, you need more ventilation. Allen On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:21 AM, Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> wrote: > > > Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been > well cared for. > > One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. > > The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated > everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? > Mold? > > I have tried the following > > -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner > -Taken out seat cushions > -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge > -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted > -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines > > The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with cover, > but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL there. > > Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get rid > of it? > > My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad. > > >

cris is correct ozone gen..is the way to go... big blue 1st vacuum boat complete then install big blue ozone open all draws turn cushions on edge open all compartment lids.. remove all head hose ....put fan at one end of big blue close boat for 24 hrs let machine RUN,,with fan circulating air through "BIG BLUE" unplug machines let set for 2 hrs...then re vacuum entire boat bilges counters ice box...high and low....Big blue adds "EXTRA oxygen molecules" to air based smell making them "heavier" causeing to sink to bilges..when you vacuum the smell is GONE !! there web site www.blueairproducts.com...I have one 10" 5 bulb and one 8" 3 bulb I treat cars and boats $250 ...I will buy you machine when your done or can treat your boat if your close by we are in nor cal ...thses machines are also use it pot grow rooms so that SKUNK smell is gone !! edward "SCENT FREE" Oh yeah check for fuel leaks or pin holes in top of fuel tank..this can get some wierd smells it also get rid of mold they also have 12 volt "BALL" units that I haven't tried ....Good luck a great smelling boat makes a happy wife..and a sailor very happy!! From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 7:10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell On 3/4/2011 9:21 AM, Compass wrote: >Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It >had been well cared for. > >One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad >smell. > >The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated >everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... >head? Cigars? Mold? > One solution for odors is an ozone generator. Fire restoration companies have big commercial-sized units. Once I left a pot of soup on high, then turned it down and went to a movie. Turns out I turned the wrong electric burner down. Moisture boiled out; temp rose; pan melted through; ingredients were charring. I got home to find a thick haze of steam and smoke. No damage, but wow, did the house stink. The insurance co. paid for the ozone machine for a couple days and the house went from unlivable to no smell at all in a couple days. Ozone will also kill off mold and mildew. You could buy, at least for a while, little ozone generators for your car that plugged into the cigarette lighter. I've got one at home for 120 VAC that came with a pile of junk from an auction. You can kill odors by leaving pans of household ammonia out. You don't get the strong ammonia smell, but it somehow absorbs or neutralizes odors. The other comments about looking for elusive dead critters might be helpful too. Chris Campbell >

as a fellow owner of a CAL29...have you checked out the bilge aft of the keel? Accessible just forward of the engine under the companionway stairs. I had a similar "issue" and found this area full of foul smelling water and assorted "items" from the engine bay. Did a pump out and clean- helped a lot. Bob Virgalla Cell: 203.733.5006 ~~~_/)~~~ From: Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:21:07 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been well cared for. One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? Mold? I have tried the following -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner -Taken out seat cushions -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with cover, but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL there. Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get rid of it? My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

I have to agree, I had my boat for years and never knew about the sump in the keel. I dropped a tool one day and it fell in there. I had to add bleach to neutralize the smell. I went to pump it out and I couldn't believe how deep it was. I found old tools, rotted wood, wire and muck at the bottom. From: Bob Virgalla <vi… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:16:37 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell as a fellow owner of a CAL29...have you checked out the bilge aft of the keel? Accessible just forward of the engine under the companionway stairs. I had a similar "issue" and found this area full of foul smelling water and assorted "items" from the engine bay. Did a pump out and clean- helped a lot. Bob Virgalla Cell: 203.733.5006 ~~~_/)~~~ From: Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:21:07 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been well cared for. One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? Mold? I have tried the following -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner -Taken out seat cushions -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with cover, but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL there. Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get rid of it? My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Does your Cal 29 have a holding tank? From: Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 6:21:07 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been well cared for. One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? Mold? I have tried the following -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner -Taken out seat cushions -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with cover, but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL there. Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get rid of it? My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Bob, I have a Cal 24 and was thinking along the same thing, of looking for a hidden area that hadn't been addressed yet. In my boat there is such an area under the deck just aft the floor supporting the head, forward of the lead ballast, which served in my boat as a salt water locker. (???) When I removed my 'Catalina Illegal' head and the floor that supported it, I discovered it, filled with murky brown water. Since it didn't have a foul smell, I dipped my finger in and bravely tasted the liquid, finding it very, very salty. There was a crack in the hull from hitting an obstruction in the past, and the leak was so slow the water was evaporating as quickly as it was leaking. In fact, when I pumped it out with a tube and piston pump, I found many giant salt crystals, which I later sold on Ebay to a geologist for more than the boat cost me! (ok, I made up that story, but just the Ebay part) Cleaning the little black spots, and areas that look soot covered, that arise from the resident below deck boat mold twice, or, at the very least,like I tend to do,once a year, is a necessary task for all boat owners. There is no way to avoid the nightly condensation below the decks which forms an ideal medium for these critters to grow (which actually more closely related to humans/animals than plants, evolution-wise). I tried skipping this duty for a year and found my eyes and lungs burning from the irritation (irritating spores, digestive gases) these bugs create while trying to sleep below decks during a weekend long layover race, not very fun. Removing everything from the boat, then scrubbing down all the surfaces with a large sponge and two shallow pails, one with dilute bleach, and one to use to wrinse and wring out the dirty water, does the trick. It helps to have your regular crew assisting with this task. The more thorough the job, the longer the boat stays fresh and pleasant. And, of course, it helps to scrub down everything that's you've taken out of the boat to get at the surfaces, life jackets, cushions, etc. I use a drying heater and a small ozone making ion generator to help slow the growth between cleanings to slow down the mold growth. Jerry --- On Fri, 3/4/11, Bob Virgalla <vi… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Bob Virgalla <vi… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 10:16 AM as a fellow owner of a CAL29...have you checked out the bilge aft of the keel? Accessible just forward of the engine under the companionway stairs. I had a similar "issue" and found this area full of foul smelling water and assorted "items" from the engine bay. Did a pump out and clean- helped a lot. Bob Virgalla Cell: 203.733.5006 ~~~_/)~~~ From: Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:21:07 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been well cared for. One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? Mold? I have tried the following -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner -Taken out seat cushions -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with cover, but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL there. Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get rid of it? My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com

This is all good stuff and I completely agree with it but I want to emphasize the importance of ventilation. As has been mentioned, the goal is to get moisture out of the boat. More accurately, the goal is to keep moisture from building up inside the boat. It turns out that a closed box will suck in moisture when the vapor pressure is higher outside and hold it in when it is not until you have 100% humidity inside. Heating the box (cabin) just increases the amount of water that the box can hold so you actually get more moisture. The best you can do unless you get a dehumidifier is to keep the humidity inside the boat the same as the humidity outside. That is done by circulating the air and having good ventilation. That is the goal of these small mushroom shaped 90 watt heaters with fans. The 90watt heater isn't designed to heat the space but to set up convection currents that, along with the fan, move the air around. Good vents so that the air can move freely inside and out of the boat helps a lot. I started leaving my hatch covers open an inch and now everything stays dry below. Last year, when I opened one of the hatch covers, everything would be completely saturated dripping wet. While it seems obvious that you want to keep the boat closed up and run a heater, it is exactly the wrong thing to do. You can't do better than having the air inside the boat have the same moisture as the air outside and typically that will be a huge improvement. I base this on experiments and measurements I did over the course of several weeks. It is all on the web page if you are interested. Lots of information on humidity and how to measure it there although I think that was largely a false path. Allen On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Bob, > I have a Cal 24 and was thinking along the same thing, of looking for a > hidden area that hadn't been addressed yet. In my boat there is such an area > under the deck just aft the floor supporting the head, forward of the lead > ballast, which served in my boat as a salt water locker. (???) When I > removed my 'Catalina Illegal' head and the floor that supported it, I > discovered it, filled with murky brown water. Since it didn't have a foul > smell, I dipped my finger in and bravely tasted the liquid, finding it very, > very salty. There was a crack in the hull from hitting an obstruction in > the past, and the leak was so slow the water was evaporating as quickly as > it was leaking. In fact, when I pumped it out with a tube and piston pump, I > found many giant salt crystals, which I later sold on Ebay to a geologist > for more than the boat cost me! (ok, I made up that story, but just the > Ebay part) > > Cleaning the little black spots, and areas that look soot covered, that > arise from the resident below deck boat mold twice, or, at the very > least,like I tend to do,once a year, is a necessary task for all boat > owners. There is no way to avoid the nightly condensation below the decks > which forms an ideal medium for these critters to grow (which actually more > closely related to humans/animals than plants, evolution-wise). > I tried skipping this duty for a year and found my eyes and lungs burning > from the irritation (irritating spores, digestive gases) these bugs create > while trying to sleep below decks during a weekend long layover race, not > very fun. Removing everything from the boat, then scrubbing down all the > surfaces with a large sponge and two shallow pails, one with dilute bleach, > and one to use to wrinse and wring out the dirty water, does the trick. It > helps to have your regular crew assisting with this task. The more thorough > the job, the longer the boat stays fresh and pleasant. And, of course, it > helps to scrub down everything that's you've taken out of the boat to get at > the surfaces, life jackets, cushions, etc. > I use a drying heater and a small ozone making ion generator to help slow > the growth between cleanings to slow down the mold growth. > Jerry > > --- On *Fri, 3/4/11, Bob Virgalla <vi… [at] yahoo.com>* wrote: > > > From: Bob Virgalla <vi… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 10:16 AM > > > > as a fellow owner of a CAL29...have you checked out the bilge aft of the > keel? Accessible just forward of the engine under the companionway stairs. > I had a similar "issue" and found this area full of foul smelling water and > assorted "items" from the engine bay. Did a pump out and clean- helped a > lot. > > Bob Virgalla > Cell: 203.733.5006 > ~~~_/)~~~ > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Fri, March 4, 2011 9:21:07 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell > > Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been > well cared for. > > One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. > > The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated > everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? > Mold? > > I have tried the following > > -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner > -Taken out seat cushions > -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge > -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted > -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines > > The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with cover, > but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL there. > > Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get rid > of it? > > My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Here is a few thoughts nobody has mentioned. When we first got our boat, we accidently filled the water tanks with well water. The marina had two hose bibs at each slip, and we were not aware of the difference. The idea was to use the well water for washing the boats, and the city water for drinking, tanks etc. after the boat sat a month the water was rank! Just turning on the spigots made you want to gag! It took about three chlorine shock treatments to get the smell out of the tanks. We also rarely used the head to its full potential. Even after replacing the hoses we were still getting the "odor". One dark night at anchor, I thought it was cool watching the effervescence of the raw water flush swirl around the toilet. It soon dawned on me. There is probably more organics that hit the holding tank (and lines) from the flush water than we put in there. We keep the raw water turned off, and use gallon jugs with city water (treated) as flush water. We also combat the humidity using the "damp rid" refilible canisters. We originally bought from West Marine, but home depot carries the same thing, only much cheaper. All these seem to keep the head odor at a minimum. I also second the thought about replacing the foam in your interior cushion, unless they are the closed cell foam, they will collect any odor in the cabin. Tymll john

Thanks for all the great ideas. I forgot to mention that I have completely ripped out the holding tank and replaced all water hoses. Also, everything I can get to has been washed down with ammonia + more. I'll have to check that aft keel. As far as I recall, it's right under the batteries? How does one get access as I remember the hole being tiny. Good idea on the ozone generator. I am in Vermont but will look around up here. Barrie

Hi Allen Yes, ventilation is huge. I install a night and day solar vent (nicro?) and its great. Keeps air moving 24 hours a day! Barrie On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Allen Edwards < al… [at] paloaltophoto.com> wrote: > > > This is all good stuff and I completely agree with it but I want to > emphasize the importance of ventilation. As has been mentioned, the goal is > to get moisture out of the boat. More accurately, the goal is to keep > moisture from building up inside the boat. It turns out that a closed box > will suck in moisture when the vapor pressure is higher outside and hold it > in when it is not until you have 100% humidity inside. Heating the box > (cabin) just increases the amount of water that the box can hold so you > actually get more moisture. The best you can do unless you get a > dehumidifier is to keep the humidity inside the boat the same as the > humidity outside. That is done by circulating the air and having good > ventilation. That is the goal of these small mushroom shaped 90 watt > heaters with fans. The 90watt heater isn't designed to heat the space but > to set up convection currents that, along with the fan, move the air around. > Good vents so that the air can move freely inside and out of the boat helps > a lot. I started leaving my hatch covers open an inch and now everything > stays dry below. Last year, when I opened one of the hatch covers, > everything would be completely saturated dripping wet. > > While it seems obvious that you want to keep the boat closed up and run a > heater, it is exactly the wrong thing to do. You can't do better than > having the air inside the boat have the same moisture as the air outside and > typically that will be a huge improvement. I base this on experiments and > measurements I did over the course of several weeks. It is all on the web > page if you are interested. Lots of information on humidity and how to > measure it there although I think that was largely a false path. > > Allen > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > >> >> >> Bob, >> I have a Cal 24 and was thinking along the same thing, of looking for a >> hidden area that hadn't been addressed yet. In my boat there is such an area >> under the deck just aft the floor supporting the head, forward of the lead >> ballast, which served in my boat as a salt water locker. (???) When I >> removed my 'Catalina Illegal' head and the floor that supported it, I >> discovered it, filled with murky brown water. Since it didn't have a foul >> smell, I dipped my finger in and bravely tasted the liquid, finding it very, >> very salty. There was a crack in the hull from hitting an obstruction in >> the past, and the leak was so slow the water was evaporating as quickly as >> it was leaking. In fact, when I pumped it out with a tube and piston pump, I >> found many giant salt crystals, which I later sold on Ebay to a geologist >> for more than the boat cost me! (ok, I made up that story, but just the >> Ebay part) >> >> Cleaning the little black spots, and areas that look soot covered, that >> arise from the resident below deck boat mold twice, or, at the very >> least,like I tend to do,once a year, is a necessary task for all boat >> owners. There is no way to avoid the nightly condensation below the decks >> which forms an ideal medium for these critters to grow (which actually more >> closely related to humans/animals than plants, evolution-wise). >> I tried skipping this duty for a year and found my eyes and lungs burning >> from the irritation (irritating spores, digestive gases) these bugs create >> while trying to sleep below decks during a weekend long layover race, not >> very fun. Removing everything from the boat, then scrubbing down all the >> surfaces with a large sponge and two shallow pails, one with dilute bleach, >> and one to use to wrinse and wring out the dirty water, does the trick. It >> helps to have your regular crew assisting with this task. The more thorough >> the job, the longer the boat stays fresh and pleasant. And, of course, it >> helps to scrub down everything that's you've taken out of the boat to get at >> the surfaces, life jackets, cushions, etc. >> I use a drying heater and a small ozone making ion generator to help slow >> the growth between cleanings to slow down the mold growth. >> Jerry >> >> --- On *Fri, 3/4/11, Bob Virgalla <vi… [at] yahoo.com>* wrote: >> >> >> From: Bob Virgalla <vi… [at] yahoo.com> >> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 10:16 AM >> >> >> >> as a fellow owner of a CAL29...have you checked out the bilge aft of the >> keel? Accessible just forward of the engine under the companionway stairs. >> I had a similar "issue" and found this area full of foul smelling water and >> assorted "items" from the engine bay. Did a pump out and clean- helped a >> lot. >> >> Bob Virgalla >> Cell: 203.733.5006 >> ~~~_/)~~~ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Fri, March 4, 2011 9:21:07 AM >> *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell >> >> Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been >> well cared for. >> >> One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. >> >> The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated >> everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? >> Mold? >> >> I have tried the following >> >> -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner >> -Taken out seat cushions >> -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge >> -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted >> -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines >> >> The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with >> cover, but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL >> there. >> >> Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get >> rid of it? >> >> My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> > >

barrie ...the slump is in under neath your step / seat just forward of engine / battery but behind the salon liner inside the trailing edge of keel appox 3 or 4 ft DEEP on our Cal 29 "NOAH'S KID" helen had to put in a "WATER PUPPY" diafram type pump mounted to engine area bulkhead and 5 ft hose with stainer as well as filter before the pump with a 3 way switch auto / off / manuel (ON) (the rule could NOT pump overboard?) if your boat is on the hard and this sump full of rain water in could be problems or mabe leave a piece of rope then let in freeze and pull out ice cube !! We put float switch in bilge area in main salon under neath table area ... our Cal 36 has huge "sump area' an the PO bolted float switch and rule 500 pump to a plexy glass 2" X 7" with prop zinks (2) which MAKES SERVICE & inspection easy ...if you have a shop vac..handy you can suck out the slump with couple of extensions ...edward ps I talk to 'blueairproducts.com " CEO scott has a boat and uses AIR BALLs which have 12 volt capeableity ....so a solar charger a air ball an fan ..i dehumityfier smell will be gone...$$$$ From: Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 7:29:15 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: peeewwww smell Thanks for all the great ideas. I forgot to mention that I have completely ripped out the holding tank and replaced all water hoses. Also, everything I can get to has been washed down with ammonia + more. I'll have to check that aft keel. As far as I recall, it's right under the batteries? How does one get access as I remember the hole being tiny. Good idea on the ozone generator. I am in Vermont but will look around up here. Barrie

do you have a diesel engine and tank? sometimes that can permeate the boat, especially if the fuel has started growing bugs, it can be nauseating. Another thing, though most of the responders suggest bleach no soap in the cleaning mix, I learned from a bug-expert that to effectively kill mildew, bleach does make it look all white and gone, but it has a natural waxy coating that unless you have some soap in that mix, doesn't totally remove it. House painters put a portion of soap into their wash with water and bleach to get the job done for prep. And, no matter what they say, those hoses for heads and fuels eventually do get smelly and should be changed over time. I once found when helping clean a ranger 29 for a sale that the PO had used socks to stuff vents in cold weather. The #@&%^idiot apparently wore them first, we had to ozone the boat. a washing with baking soda solution is a safe cleaner, so is vinegar(not together). You can take all fabrics and use a baking soda/soap washing machine load, then in the rinse cycle try adding a vinegar/water to the rinse cycle to remove residues. Keep a fan running fresh air through the boat while you work. Helen From: Compass <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 6:21:07 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] peeewwww smell Last season I got myself a Cal 29 in very very good condition. It had been well cared for. One problem that raised it's ugly head though was a really bad smell. The cushions were "soaked in it" and it seemed to have permeated everything. I am not sure I could even identify what it was... head? Cigars? Mold? I have tried the following -Washed everything down with aggressive cleaner -Taken out seat cushions -Dumped gallon or so of bilge cleaner down bilge -Ripped off the 70's carpet off the cabin walls and repainted -Pulled out old bladder-type head storage tank and head old head lines The boat has been on cradle for a few months during the winter (with cover, but windows open. I went up to check on it and the smell is STILL there. Anyone got any thoughts on (a)what could be the source (b)how I can get rid of it? My wife is reluctant to sleep on board its so bad.

On 3/5/2011 2:54 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Removing everything from the boat, then scrubbing down all the > surfaces with a large sponge and two shallow pails, one with dilute > bleach, and one to use to wrinse and wring out the dirty water, does > the trick. It helps to have your regular crew assisting with this > task. The more thorough the job, the longer the boat stays fresh and > pleasant. And, of course, it helps to scrub down everything that's > you've taken out of the boat to get at the surfaces, life jackets, > cushions, etc. > I use a drying heater and a small ozone making ion generator to help > slow the growth between cleanings to slow down the mold growth. > Hydrogen peroxide is also a mold-killer and may be less smelly and annoying to use. You can also use vinegar. I used it successfully on my other boat, which has a rough overhead (unfinished roving that the previous owner painted with a trowel or something long ago). I hate using bleach because I'm lying on my back to do this, and all thge clothing and anything else within drip range gets bleached. Vinegar cleaned it up well and inhibited regrowth. I've found the ads for small ozone generators that i had saved, and will bring them in tomorrow. Chris Campbell > >

the keel sump on cal-29 #498 would slowly accumulate water , probably from hatch leaks. It smelled so bad we thought it was the head at first. The smell was very sulfur like. Most likely anaerobic conditions deep in the keel fostered growth of organisms that produce hydrogen sulfide. Pumping it out and a splash of bleach solved the problem. drew new haven ct To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: co… [at] compassdesigns.net Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 15:29:15 +0000 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: peeewwww smell Thanks for all the great ideas. I forgot to mention that I have completely ripped out the holding tank and replaced all water hoses. Also, everything I can get to has been washed down with ammonia + more. I'll have to check that aft keel. As far as I recall, it's right under the batteries? How does one get access as I remember the hole being tiny. Good idea on the ozone generator. I am in Vermont but will look around up here. Barrie

Hey all How the heck have you managed to pump out that second sump just for'ed the engine. The opening is tiny! Do I have to remove something to get at it? Barrie

If this is a cal 29, the sump is pretty deep. I put in a separate water pump (water puppy) mounted on the port side which goes back to an exit at the stern.

Thanks Helen How big is the actual opening just under the batteries in your boat? Barrie On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > > > If this is a cal 29, the sump is pretty deep. I put in a separate water > pump (water puppy) mounted on the port side which goes back to an exit at > the stern. From the pump to the bottom of the keel is about 6 inches of > tubing, hose-clamped to a screw top water filter with a screen, the top is > clear so I can see debris(not allowed in bilge)hose-clamped to the rest of > the tubing going down to a brass or bronze strainer fitting that almost > holds itself down. You can use a bright light to see where you actually > locate it(don't cut the tubing short until you actually pump it out). You > can still leave your float switch in the higher sump, but put in a three way > "auto, off, manual to get the last drop. If you can find a way to stiffen > the tubing, you can probably skip the strainer, or find some other type of > strainer tip. I would put some bilge cleaner in there first and let it soak, > then use a wet/dry shop vac and stick tubing down there till it hits bottom, > using an adapter to accommodate the smaller tubing or ducttape to shrink > down to the tube size, and clean it out thoroughly before I hooked up the > new system so you don't plug up with garbage or smelly stuff. . You need to > be sure your pump can "lift" the 3+ feet of water. Helen > > >

Same issue here Cal 2-29 bilge is deep over 4" and hard to get to under 2 batteries. I drilled a 2" hole between them so I could shine a light and drop a vac hose along with by accident, a craftsman 3/8" socket wrench which was recovered along with a bunch of other rusted metal by magnet. What I do with that rancid bilge water is vac it (wet/dry) out into one gallon milk containers and take it to a chem depository. Or If its not a fuel or oil spill, take it home and down the cleanout. Then I put a gallon of white vinegar into the bilge from the engine area so it cleans that area as well. Then if its a really bad grime I flood the bilge up to the top let it set over night. Sample the water for sheen and contamination if its clean pump it out if not I will vac it into containers again and repeat the process. When I am satisfied with the results I will add either simple green or Orange-sol to get rid of the vinegar smell. If you don't have oil or fuel leaks this should last a long time. If your problem is simply rain water stagnation flood bilge with salt water and a little bleech pump out. I have used this process for bilge full of diesel spill and discovered that the bio/cleaners do not work as well as 1.99 per gallon vinegar. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Barrie North To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: peeewwww smell Thanks Helen How big is the actual opening just under the batteries in your boat? Barrie On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: If this is a cal 29, the sump is pretty deep. I put in a separate water pump (water puppy) mounted on the port side which goes back to an exit at the stern. From the pump to the bottom of the keel is about 6 inches of tubing, hose-clamped to a screw top water filter with a screen, the top is clear so I can see debris(not allowed in bilge)hose-clamped to the rest of the tubing going down to a brass or bronze strainer fitting that almost holds itself down. You can use a bright light to see where you actually locate it(don't cut the tubing short until you actually pump it out). You can still leave your float switch in the higher sump, but put in a three way "auto, off, manual to get the last drop. If you can find a way to stiffen the tubing, you can probably skip the strainer, or find some other type of strainer tip. I would put some bilge cleaner in there first and let it soak, then use a wet/dry shop vac and stick tubing down there till it hits bottom, using an adapter to accommodate the smaller tubing or ducttape to shrink down to the tube size, and clean it out thoroughly before I hooked up the new system so you don't plug up with garbage or smelly stuff. . You need to be sure your pump can "lift" the 3+ feet of water. Helen __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5956 (20110315) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5958 (20110316) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

On 3/16/2011 11:34 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > > Same issue here Cal 2-29 bilge is deep over 4" and hard to get to > under 2 batteries. I drilled a 2" hole between them so I could shine a > light and drop a vac hose along with by accident, a craftsman > 3/8" socket wrench which was recovered along with a bunch of other > rusted metal by magnet. > What I do with that rancid bilge water is vac it (wet/dry) out into > one gallon milk containers and take it to a chem depository. Or If its > not a fuel or oil spill, take it home and down the cleanout. My Cal 20 doesn't have enough of a bilge sump so this is a mystery problem for me, but I'm wondering if one longer-term solution isn't glassing over the deep, inaccessible bilge sump. You could dry it out, insert a carved chunk of styrofoam to fit, and use that to lay some roving & epoxy over. Sometimes it's helpful to have a sump area where water can collect without making a mess in the cabin, but if the thing is too inaccessible, maybe downsizing it is a better plan. Chris Campbell

I cleaned an old British Seagull brass fuel tank that had a 10/1 fuel mix evaporate over an 8 year period and red wine vinegar was what did the job. In the carb too. Took about 3 refills but it did the job with no trama to the tank. My Best, Mike From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 8:34:05 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: peeewwww smell Same issue here Cal 2-29 bilge is deep over 4" and hard to get to under 2 batteries. I drilled a 2" hole between them so I could shine a light and drop a vac hose along with by accident, a craftsman 3/8" socket wrench which was recovered along with a bunch of other rusted metal by magnet. What I do with that rancid bilge water is vac it (wet/dry) out into one gallon milk containers and take it to a chem depository. Or If its not a fuel or oil spill, take it home and down the cleanout. Then I put a gallon of white vinegar into the bilge from the engine area so it cleans that area as well. Then if its a really bad grime I flood the bilge up to the top let it set over night. Sample the water for sheen and contamination if its clean pump it out if not I will vac it into containers again and repeat the process. When I am satisfied with the results I will add either simple green or Orange-sol to get rid of the vinegar smell. If you don't have oil or fuel leaks this should last a long time. If your problem is simply rain water stagnation flood bilge with salt water and a little bleech pump out. I have used this process for bilge full of diesel spill and discovered that the bio/cleaners do not work as well as 1.99 per gallon vinegar. Mark >From: Barrie North >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:51 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: peeewwww smell > > >Thanks Helen > >How big is the actual opening just under the batteries in your boat? > >Barrie > > > >On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > >>If this is a cal 29, the sump is pretty deep. I put in a separate water pump >>(water puppy) mounted on the port side which goes back to an exit at the stern. >>From the pump to the bottom of the keel is about 6 inches of tubing, >>hose-clamped to a screw top water filter with a screen, the top is clear so I >>can see debris(not allowed in bilge)hose-clamped to the rest of the tubing going >>down to a brass or bronze strainer fitting that almost holds itself down. You >>can use a bright light to see where you actually locate it(don't cut the tubing >>short until you actually pump it out). You can still leave your float switch in >>the higher sump, but put in a three way "auto, off, manual to get the last drop. >>If you can find a way to stiffen the tubing, you can probably skip the strainer, >>or find some other type of strainer tip. I would put some bilge cleaner in there >>first and let it soak, then use a wet/dry shop vac and stick tubing down there >>till it hits bottom, using an adapter to accommodate the smaller tubing or >>ducttape to shrink down to the tube size, and clean it out thoroughly before I >>hooked up the new system so you don't plug up with garbage or smelly stuff. . >>You need to be sure your pump can "lift" the 3+ feet of water. Helen >> >> >> >> > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 5956 (20110315) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5958 (20110316) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

I put a piece of foam in my cal20 o/b well. It's not class legal but offshore it takes a lot of water out that I don't have to account for. Mike Farrell Cal 20 #61 Coyote From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 10:43:32 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: peeewwww smell On 3/16/2011 11:34 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: >Same issue here Cal 2-29 bilge is deep over 4" and hard to get to under 2 >batteries. I drilled a 2" hole between them so I could shine a light and drop a >vac hose along with by accident, a craftsman 3/8" socket wrench which was >recovered along with a bunch of other rusted metal by magnet. > >What I do with that rancid bilge water is vac it (wet/dry) out into one gallon >milk containers and take it to a chem depository. Or If its not a fuel or oil >spill, take it home and down the cleanout. My Cal 20 doesn't have enough of a bilge sump so this is a mystery problem for me, but I'm wondering if one longer-term solution isn't glassing over the deep, inaccessible bilge sump. You could dry it out, insert a carved chunk of styrofoam to fit, and use that to lay some roving & epoxy over. Sometimes it's helpful to have a sump area where water can collect without making a mess in the cabin, but if the thing is too inaccessible, maybe downsizing it is a better plan. Chris Campbell

Awesome tips Mark! Barrie On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) < ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > > Same issue here Cal 2-29 bilge is deep over 4" and hard to get to under 2 > batteries. I drilled a 2" hole between them so I could shine a light and > drop a vac hose along with by accident, a craftsman 3/8" socket wrench which > was recovered along with a bunch of other rusted metal by magnet. > What I do with that rancid bilge water is vac it (wet/dry) out into one > gallon milk containers and take it to a chem depository. Or If its not a > fuel or oil spill, take it home and down the cleanout. > Then I put a gallon of white vinegar into the bilge from the engine area so > it cleans that area as well. Then if its a really bad grime I flood the > bilge up to the top let it set over night. Sample the water for sheen and > contamination if its clean pump it out if not I will vac it into containers > again and repeat the process. When I am satisfied with the results I will > add either simple green or Orange-sol to get rid of the vinegar smell. If > you don't have oil or fuel leaks this should last a long time. If your > problem is simply rain water stagnation flood bilge with salt water and a > little bleech pump out. > > I have used this process for bilge full of diesel spill and discovered that > the bio/cleaners do not work as well as 1.99 per gallon vinegar. > Mark > >

I could use it for water ballast on a windy day or the hot ticket would be to cut some access through the salon floor with a storage box set into the keel. Thinking hold a lot of beer on ice. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: peeewwww smell On 3/16/2011 11:34 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: Same issue here Cal 2-29 bilge is deep over 4" and hard to get to under 2 batteries. I drilled a 2" hole between them so I could shine a light and drop a vac hose along with by accident, a craftsman 3/8" socket wrench which was recovered along with a bunch of other rusted metal by magnet. What I do with that rancid bilge water is vac it (wet/dry) out into one gallon milk containers and take it to a chem depository. Or If its not a fuel or oil spill, take it home and down the cleanout. My Cal 20 doesn't have enough of a bilge sump so this is a mystery problem for me, but I'm wondering if one longer-term solution isn't glassing over the deep, inaccessible bilge sump. You could dry it out, insert a carved chunk of styrofoam to fit, and use that to lay some roving & epoxy over. Sometimes it's helpful to have a sump area where water can collect without making a mess in the cabin, but if the thing is too inaccessible, maybe downsizing it is a better plan. Chris Campbell __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5960 (20110316) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

On 3/16/2011 10:07 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > > I could use it for water ballast on a windy day or the hot ticket > would be to cut some access through the salon floor > with a storage box set into the keel. Thinking hold a lot of beer on > ice. Mark From what I've read about the odors and crud lurking in those spaces, wouldn't it be kinda like keeping your beer on ice in the toilet bowl? Chris Campbell

mine actually went side to side almost to the risers about the battery compartment, about 3 or so inches front to back( i don't know if the previous owner perhaps cut the floor pan a little bigger, he had the batteries installed in the side mini compartments either side of the engine trough)..after I did the pump and tubing, I put in a few of those plastic/poly floor squares like west marine sells for airspacing or deckwalk and cut a notch for the tubing before installing the batteries, that way you can catch most debris before it has a chance to get into that sump. It works great. I got a cheap version of those pinch-together tiles years ago in boxes of 10 for 12 dollars, cut to fit and use them everywhere for air: under dishes, food, etc. in the cabinets behind the galley, under the v-berth cushions, just wish I had bought more, cant find any more. and for those little metal things, that are ferrous, I keep a small fridge magnet on a string with a stick attached that floats if I drop it, in my tools. away from electronics. I also keep a big magnet block contractors use to clean nails from driveways etc. about an inch thick, 2x4 inches with an eye on top. Helen From: Barrie North <co… [at] compassdesigns.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 7:51:37 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: peeewwww smell Thanks Helen How big is the actual opening just under the batteries in your boat? Barrie On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: >If this is a cal 29, the sump is pretty deep. I put in a separate water pump >(water puppy) mounted on the port side which goes back to an exit at the stern. >From the pump to the bottom of the keel is about 6 inches of tubing, >hose-clamped to a screw top water filter with a screen, the top is clear so I >can see debris(not allowed in bilge)hose-clamped to the rest of the tubing going >down to a brass or bronze strainer fitting that almost holds itself down. You >can use a bright light to see where you actually locate it(don't cut the tubing >short until you actually pump it out). You can still leave your float switch in >the higher sump, but put in a three way "auto, off, manual to get the last drop. >If you can find a way to stiffen the tubing, you can probably skip the strainer, >or find some other type of strainer tip. I would put some bilge cleaner in >there first and let it soak, then use a wet/dry shop vac and stick tubing down >there till it hits bottom, using an adapter to accommodate the smaller tubing or >ducttape to shrink down to the tube size, and clean it out thoroughly before I >hooked up the new system so you don't plug up with garbage or smelly stuff. . >You need to be sure your pump can "lift" the 3+ feet of water. Helen > > > >