Re: pvc conduit questions

We ran PVC conduit (gray) up the mast on our "new" Tartan. We used standard couplers with no problems. We secured the pipe as follows: Drill a hole to the side of where the pipe was in the mast. Use a bent coat hanger to hook the pipe and hold it tight against the mast. Drill a hole through the mast and pipe. Install a pop rivet to hold the pipe to the mast. Remove the coat hanger. Install a pop rivet in the hole for the hanger access. I think we put the rivets about two feet apart. We ended the first segment below the spreaders and then installed a second segment from the spreaders to the masthead. With careful use of messenger strings we were able to route the various wires to their destinations. Wires are secure, and there is no rattling. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"

Thanks all. I've decided I'm going to use foam 'butterflies' every four feet apart or so instead. Will assemble the wiring hardness outside the mast and then pull through with a snake at each location- masthead, spreaders, steaming light. I like this idea because it will support the wires instead of letting them dangle in the conduit. Also easier to carry out! On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: > > > We ran PVC conduit (gray) up the mast on our “new” Tartan. We used standard > couplers with no problems. We secured the pipe as follows: > > > > Drill a hole to the side of where the pipe was in the mast. > > Use a bent coat hanger to hook the pipe and hold it tight against the mast. > > Drill a hole through the mast and pipe. > > Install a pop rivet to hold the pipe to the mast. > > Remove the coat hanger. > > Install a pop rivet in the hole for the hanger access. > > > > I think we put the rivets about two feet apart. We ended the first segment > below the spreaders and then installed a second segment from the spreaders > to the masthead. With careful use of messenger strings we were able to route > the various wires to their destinations. Wires are secure, and there is no > rattling. > > > > Alfred Poor > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” > > > > >

I used long zip ties every 3 feet or so, installed at about 120 degrees to each other, leaving the tails attached. Someone had used foam in one of my masts once upon a time, but it deteriorated and turned to powdery junk over time. don't forget strain release at spreader height and masthead. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: th… [at] gmail.com Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:57:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: pvc conduit questions Thanks all. I've decided I'm going to use foam 'butterflies' every four feet apart or so instead. Will assemble the wiring hardness outside the mast and then pull through with a snake at each location- masthead, spreaders, steaming light. I like this idea because it will support the wires instead of letting them dangle in the conduit. Also easier to carry out! On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: We ran PVC conduit (gray) up the mast on our “new” Tartan. We used standard couplers with no problems. We secured the pipe as follows: Drill a hole to the side of where the pipe was in the mast. Use a bent coat hanger to hook the pipe and hold it tight against the mast. Drill a hole through the mast and pipe. Install a pop rivet to hold the pipe to the mast. Remove the coat hanger. Install a pop rivet in the hole for the hanger access. I think we put the rivets about two feet apart. We ended the first segment below the spreaders and then installed a second segment from the spreaders to the masthead. With careful use of messenger strings we were able to route the various wires to their destinations. Wires are secure, and there is no rattling. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”

I am an advocate of using the cable ties with uncut ends to stop the slatting, but you are right - there is no support. Just be careful about the foam. I tried to get the wires out of a mast once where the foam had hardened over time. We had a $)*)# of a time getting it out. Best of luck. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 5:58 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: pvc conduit questions Thanks all. I've decided I'm going to use foam 'butterflies' every four feet apart or so instead. Will assemble the wiring hardness outside the mast and then pull through with a snake at each location- masthead, spreaders, steaming light. I like this idea because it will support the wires instead of letting them dangle in the conduit. Also easier to carry out! On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net<mailto:ap… [at] verizon.net>> wrote: We ran PVC conduit (gray) up the mast on our "new" Tartan. We used standard couplers with no problems. We secured the pipe as follows: Drill a hole to the side of where the pipe was in the mast. Use a bent coat hanger to hook the pipe and hold it tight against the mast. Drill a hole through the mast and pipe. Install a pop rivet to hold the pipe to the mast. Remove the coat hanger. Install a pop rivet in the hole for the hanger access. I think we put the rivets about two feet apart. We ended the first segment below the spreaders and then installed a second segment from the spreaders to the masthead. With careful use of messenger strings we were able to route the various wires to their destinations. Wires are secure, and there is no rattling. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"

Reggie wrote: "I used long zip ties every 3 feet or so, installed at about 120 degrees to each other, leaving the tails attached. Someone had used foam in one of my masts once upon a time, but it deteriorated and turned to powdery junk over time." A P.O. had used foam inside our mast. It had turned sticky and balled up into a massive wad when we tried to remove the old wiring, tangling the wire and causing some consternation and the liberal use of sailor language. I'm very happy with the conduit solution, and confident that it will be relatively easy (what is ever easy on a boat?) to change or fish additional wires through it. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"

Adam wrote: "Is it okay to zip tie VHF antenna and DC cables together? What about wind instrument cable? I wan't to avoid noise and problems in general down the road.. better to do it right now." I've always liked the zip tie approach: clean, simple, effective, and should last forever. The reason that we didn't do it is because if you need to change one wire, you need to pull all of them because they're zipped together. (I can't work out how separate ties on each wire works without them getting fouled on each other as you pull them up, but then again, I've never tried it.) There's very little room for the wires to move within the conduit, so there's not much space for motion, and thus any wiggling they do in there cannot build up enough force to be noisy. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"

So if i read this instruction correctly, two rivets were used at each connection point, one to hold the tube the second to secure it, then the first one filled with a rivet to seal the hole. If this is correct, and the spacing was a little smaller could not the first hole, the one used to hold the pipe, be used as a mast step hole (if you tap it of course) as you need three per step. Or would that be too much perforation on one side of the mast? /ch On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: > > > We ran PVC conduit (gray) up the mast on our “new” Tartan. We used standard > couplers with no problems. We secured the pipe as follows: >

How to I support the wire harness at the masthead and spreader lights, as mentioned? On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 8:21 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > > So if i read this instruction correctly, two rivets were used at each > connection point, one to hold the tube the second to secure it, then the > first one filled with a rivet to seal the hole. > > If this is correct, and the spacing was a little smaller could not the > first hole, the one used to hold the pipe, be used as a mast step hole (if > you tap it of course) as you need three per step. Or would that be too much > perforation on one side of the mast? > > /ch > > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: > >> >> >> We ran PVC conduit (gray) up the mast on our “new” Tartan. We used >> standard couplers with no problems. We secured the pipe as follows: >> > >

I missed the prior posts on this subject, but several years ago I attempted to write about how I dealt with wires in my mast. All of my halyards are internal. I used the same process, first on a Cal-34, then on the Cal-40, as taught to me by Denny Riegler (who ran the SparCraft shop in Costa Mesa, CA, back in the '70s). http://cal40.com/howto.php<http://cal40.com/howto.php> Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfred Poor<mailto:ap… [at] verizon.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 6:28 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: pvc conduit questions Adam wrote: "Is it okay to zip tie VHF antenna and DC cables together? What about wind instrument cable? I wan't to avoid noise and problems in general down the road.. better to do it right now." I've always liked the zip tie approach: clean, simple, effective, and should last forever. The reason that we didn't do it is because if you need to change one wire, you need to pull all of them because they're zipped together. (I can't work out how separate ties on each wire works without them getting fouled on each other as you pull them up, but then again, I've never tried it.) There's very little room for the wires to move within the conduit, so there's not much space for motion, and thus any wiggling they do in there cannot build up enough force to be noisy. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"

Chris: If I didn't tell you initially, all the wiring in the mast of Bay Breeze is held in place using the wiretie technique...about every 2 feet. Never heard a sound from any of the wiring. Additionally. I left a messenger line inside the mast that can be accessed at the masthead. Les Hester Formally '78 3-29 #1005 Bay Breeze Now '72 Tartan 34c #198 Sable Swan Creek, Md From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Cal Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 15:21:11 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: pvc conduit questions So if i read this instruction correctly, two rivets were used at each connection point, one to hold the tube the second to secure it, then the first one filled with a rivet to seal the hole. If this is correct, and the spacing was a little smaller could not the first hole, the one used to hold the pipe, be used as a mast step hole (if you tap it of course) as you need three per step. Or would that be too much perforation on one side of the mast? /ch On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: We ran PVC conduit (gray) up the mast on our “new” Tartan. We used standard couplers with no problems. We secured the pipe as follows:

Les: Non issue on the sound. No clanking or anything. I was just exploring a concept as I like to learn. In short, it was a nicely done piece of work. It seems to me that if you have a spare hole and choose to put in mast steps like many cruising boats like to have, some forethought might save some work, allowing two issues to be addressed at once. Then again a different approach would be to make a series of slings that run up the sail guide via slugs. Saw that approach on atomvoyages and there are several commercial variants on that theme. Thanks Les....greets to the Swans..>:) /ch On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 7:37 PM, <ld… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > > > Chris: If I didn't tell you initially, all the wiring in the mast of Bay > Breeze is held in place using the wiretie technique...about every 2 feet. > Never heard a sound from any of the wiring. Additionally. I left a messenger > line inside the mast that can be accessed at the masthead. > > Les Hester > >

On Apr 16, 2011, at 2:29 PM, Fin Beven wrote: > > I missed the prior posts on this subject, but several years ago I > attempted to write about how I dealt with wires in my mast. All of > my halyards are internal. > > I used the same process, first on a Cal-34, then on the Cal-40, as > taught to me by Denny Riegler (who ran the SparCraft shop in Costa > Mesa, CA, back in the '70s). > > http://cal40.com/howto.php It might be a good idea to make the PVC tube go to the bottom of the mast at the step. I had this arrangement in the Yankee 38 and we had all the rivets shear off when we were in a storm in the 77 La Paz Race. We were falling off big seas and one fall sheared the rivets, the PVC fell to the mast step and pulled out all the wires from the mast instruments and lights. If the PVC went down to the mast step, this couldn't happen. Mike Kennedy > > Fin Beven > Cal-40 #24 > Radiant > San Pedro, CA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alfred Poor > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 6:28 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: pvc conduit questions > > Adam wrote: > > > > "Is it okay to zip tie VHF antenna and DC cables together? What > about wind instrument cable? I wan't to avoid noise and problems in > general down the road.. better to do it right now." > > > > I've always liked the zip tie approach: clean, simple, effective, > and should last forever. The reason that we didn't do it is because > if you need to change one wire, you need to pull all of them because > they're zipped together. (I can't work out how separate ties on each > wire works without them getting fouled on each other as you pull > them up, but then again, I've never tried it.) > > > > There's very little room for the wires to move within the conduit, > so there's not much space for motion, and thus any wiggling they do > in there cannot build up enough force to be noisy. > > > > Alfred Poor > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya" > > > > >

Adam, When I rewired the mast on our Cal 27p-t, I just made a harness with Anco wire, tape, ty-wraps, and a plastic coated steel cable (like pool covers use). After fishing the harness back into the mast (I tied pull strings on the old wiring before I pulled them out), I fastened the top end of the steel messenger wire around my masthead VHF mount to support the harness. I haven't heard any clanking since completed. The spreader wires and steaming light wire are pulled out and secured with ty-wraps as stoppers, which helps hold the harness to the mast. Note: my halyards are all externally run. I hope this helps... Dave Leasia 72 Cal 27 p-t #145 s/v "Candy Cane" Lake St. Clair, MI --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Adam Thorp <thorpydo@...> wrote: > > How to I support the wire harness at the masthead and spreader lights, as > mentioned? >

I've posted some photos of the "two hole" process in my photo album 1973 SV Thalia if it helps getting a graphic. I believe they are a bit out of sequence... 1. turn mast in edge with conduit inside 2. Drill two holes in close proximity, one on top of another 3. Heat coat hanger to melt hole in mast 3. use screw to secure masts 4. Aluminum pop rivets in other hole to permanently secure 5. remove screw, fill whole with filler. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Adam Thorp <thorpydo@...> wrote: > > Thanks all. > > I've decided I'm going to use foam 'butterflies' every four feet apart or so > instead. Will assemble the wiring hardness outside the mast and then pull > through with a snake at each location- masthead, spreaders, steaming light. > > I like this idea because it will support the wires instead of letting them > dangle in the conduit. Also easier to carry out! > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Alfred Poor <apoor@...> wrote: > > > > > > > We ran PVC conduit (gray) up the mast on our "new" Tartan. We used standard > > couplers with no problems. We secured the pipe as follows: > > > > > > > > Drill a hole to the side of where the pipe was in the mast. > > > > Use a bent coat hanger to hook the pipe and hold it tight against the mast. > > > > Drill a hole through the mast and pipe. > > > > Install a pop rivet to hold the pipe to the mast. > > > > Remove the coat hanger. > > > > Install a pop rivet in the hole for the hanger access. > > > > > > > > I think we put the rivets about two feet apart. We ended the first segment > > below the spreaders and then installed a second segment from the spreaders > > to the masthead. With careful use of messenger strings we were able to route > > the various wires to their destinations. Wires are secure, and there is no > > rattling. > > > > > > > > Alfred Poor > > > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya" > > > > > > > > > > >