autohelm 3000 parts

I inherited an autohelm 3000 when I purchased my cal 28. The plastic ring which is part of the device that connects the belt drive to the base of the binnacle is cracked. Otherwise the autopilot seems to be working fine. I contacted Raymarine which no longer supplies parts for this model and I searched the web with no luck. I wonder if I could repair the ring with superglue and coat the outside with something like West system? Anyone have any advice or access to a part? Thanks, Greg

Greg, Watch eBay, troll the various junk (read: used marine equipment) stores and watch for a similar unit, dead or alive. It's about the only way to keep the old stuff alive. I'll let someone more competent than myself suggest possible repairs to your broken part. Surely there is some magical glop that will do the job. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Mar 23, 2011, at 7:05 AM, gregreinhard wrote: > I inherited an autohelm 3000 when I purchased my cal 28. The > plastic ring which is part of the device that connects the belt > drive to the base of the binnacle is cracked. Otherwise the > autopilot seems to be working fine. I contacted Raymarine which no > longer supplies parts for this model and I searched the web with no > luck. I wonder if I could repair the ring with superglue and coat > the outside with something like West system? > > Anyone have any advice or access to a part? > > Thanks, > > Greg > >

On 3/23/2011 10:05 AM, gregreinhard wrote: > > I inherited an autohelm 3000 when I purchased my cal 28. The plastic > ring which is part of the device that connects the belt drive to the > base of the binnacle is cracked. Otherwise the autopilot seems to be > working fine. I contacted Raymarine which no longer supplies parts for > this model and I searched the web with no luck. I wonder if I could > repair the ring with superglue and coat the outside with something > like West system? > The Gougeon Brothers (WEST System epoxies) have some epoxies that are formulated for use on plastics. Usually you pass a propane torch flame lightly over the surface just before gluing to vaporize the plasticizers, which inhibit the bond, or something like that. I just received the "Epoxyworks" publication in the mail last night and one of their staffers had a short piece on reinforcing a plastic (PVC) snow shovel with steel and their special epoxy. Go to their web site or contact their customer service reps for specific information. Gougeon employees seems to enjoy repair challenges, judging by their articles. Another one described using epoxy and aluminum powder to patch a motorcycle gearcase. Chris Campbell > >

Chris, I may have one I don't need (I have a tiller). I'll check the storage locker this weekend. Mike Robinson To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cc… [at] lsnm.org Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:13:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] autohelm 3000 parts On 3/23/2011 10:05 AM, gregreinhard wrote: I inherited an autohelm 3000 when I purchased my cal 28. The plastic ring which is part of the device that connects the belt drive to the base of the binnacle is cracked. Otherwise the autopilot seems to be working fine. I contacted Raymarine which no longer supplies parts for this model and I searched the web with no luck. I wonder if I could repair the ring with superglue and coat the outside with something like West system? The Gougeon Brothers (WEST System epoxies) have some epoxies that are formulated for use on plastics. Usually you pass a propane torch flame lightly over the surface just before gluing to vaporize the plasticizers, which inhibit the bond, or something like that. I just received the "Epoxyworks" publication in the mail last night and one of their staffers had a short piece on reinforcing a plastic (PVC) snow shovel with steel and their special epoxy. Go to their web site or contact their customer service reps for specific information. Gougeon employees seems to enjoy repair challenges, judging by their articles. Another one described using epoxy and aluminum powder to patch a motorcycle gearcase. Chris Campbell

On 3/23/2011 11:15 AM, Michael Robinson wrote: > > Chris, > I may have one I don't need (I have a tiller). I'll check the storage > locker this weekend. > Mike, It's Greg who inquired and Chris who replied about epoxies. Chris > > > > */Mike Robinson/* > *//* > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: cc… [at] lsnm.org > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:13:24 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] autohelm 3000 parts > > > > On 3/23/2011 10:05 AM, gregreinhard wrote: > > I inherited an autohelm 3000 when I purchased my cal 28. The > plastic ring which is part of the device that connects the belt > drive to the base of the binnacle is cracked. Otherwise the > autopilot seems to be working fine. I contacted Raymarine which no > longer supplies parts for this model and I searched the web with > no luck. I wonder if I could repair the ring with superglue and > coat the outside with something like West system? > > > The Gougeon Brothers (WEST System epoxies) have some epoxies that are > formulated for use on plastics. Usually you pass a propane torch > flame lightly over the surface just before gluing to vaporize the > plasticizers, which inhibit the bond, or something like that. I just > received the "Epoxyworks" publication in the mail last night and one > of their staffers had a short piece on reinforcing a plastic (PVC) > snow shovel with steel and their special epoxy. Go to their web site > or contact their customer service reps for specific information. > Gougeon employees seems to enjoy repair challenges, judging by their > articles. Another one described using epoxy and aluminum powder to > patch a motorcycle gearcase. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > >

Ah, I see now said the guy who didn't read the entire thread. Thanks! Well Greg I will check the locker this weekend. Mike Mike, It's Greg who inquired and Chris who replied about epoxies. Chris

Greg, I checked my locker. I have metal wheel that attached to the boat wheel for the belt drive, and a small devise for the belt drive but didn't find "The plastic ring which is part of the device that connects the belt drive to the base of the binnacle..." Do you have a photo you can email? Maybe I am missing something. Mike Robinson > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: gr… [at] yahoo.com > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:05:32 +0000 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] autohelm 3000 parts > > I inherited an autohelm 3000 when I purchased my cal 28. The plastic ring which is part of the device that connects the belt drive to the base of the binnacle is cracked. Otherwise the autopilot seems to be working fine. I contacted Raymarine which no longer supplies parts for this model and I searched the web with no luck. I wonder if I could repair the ring with superglue and coat the outside with something like West system? > > Anyone have any advice or access to a part? > > Thanks, > > Greg > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? Thanks for any advice. Greg

It is my understanding that the penetrating epoxies do not penetrate more than 1/8", not sufficient to "fix" deck core rotting or prevent further damage. Rotten core spreads due to moisture remaining causing more dry rot issues. The simple fix is to use a stiff wire (heavy coat hanger or allen wrench) in the original hole to loosen the rotted wood. A vacuum will held remove loose debris. After getting to good wood, you can fill with epoxy, thickened enough to self-level in the small hole. Use plumbers putty to seal the hole under the deck as painter tape or duck tape will release adhesion when in contact with the epoxy and not seal the hole underneath. I have had success with smaller stantion repair in the past. Now is also a good time to install larger backing plates on the underneath side of the deck. The backing plate should be slightly larger than the stantion base, 1/4" thick Alunimum or staiess steel. Large fender washers or wooden backing plates do not spread the load sufficiently to prevent pullout. John On Apr 19, 2011, at 8:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? > > Thanks for any advice. > > Greg > > > >

On 4/19/2011 8:21 AM, Greg Reinhard wrote: > One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and > water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole > about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that > water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. > Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the > price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to > last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that > is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then > packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? The most important thing is to dry out the core before you add anything. If you seal moisture & rot spores inside, they will just keep cooking away. Imagine what happens inside a plastic bag containing moisture and something that's decaying (check the far reaches of your refrigerator). The best approach would be to remove either the lower or the upper skin, back past the rotted area, remove the rotted core, replace with some suitable material, then either replace or re-secure the skin. Then do the standard thing for holes penetrating cored decks: drill the hole oversize, fill with epoxy, drill a proper-sized hole in the middle of the epoxy. If you do a quickie, half-assed job, some future owner will be cursing you into eternity. Do it right the first time. Chris Campbell

Amen, Brother! Mike M. On 4/19/2011 9:31 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > If you do a quickie, half-assed job, some future owner will be cursing > you into eternity. Do it right the first time.

the great ghetto way and a way that will totally work is two sheets of marine plywood overlapping the bases by generous amount through bolted with sealant....and your stanchions bolted through....then you can paint it.... It will work! To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cc… [at] lsnm.org Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:31:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] deck damage On 4/19/2011 8:21 AM, Greg Reinhard wrote: One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? The most important thing is to dry out the core before you add anything. If you seal moisture & rot spores inside, they will just keep cooking away. Imagine what happens inside a plastic bag containing moisture and something that's decaying (check the far reaches of your refrigerator). The best approach would be to remove either the lower or the upper skin, back past the rotted area, remove the rotted core, replace with some suitable material, then either replace or re-secure the skin. Then do the standard thing for holes penetrating cored decks: drill the hole oversize, fill with epoxy, drill a proper-sized hole in the middle of the epoxy. If you do a quickie, half-assed job, some future owner will be cursing you into eternity. Do it right the first time. Chris Campbell

I would phone West Systems and ask them what to do. This might be interesting as well: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=399&title=Fiberglass+deck+repair-Part+1+-+West+System <http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=399&title=Fiberglass+deck+repair-Part+1+-+West+System>You might also find something useful on this list http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/how_tos.do Allen On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > > One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water > damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime > size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the > core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory > way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure > this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is > some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would > soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? > > Thanks for any advice. > > Greg > > > > >

Removing topskin is easier to access everything but you are at mercy of weather. If doing a large area remember to support deck from below so you do not loose curveof deck. Drill holes at edge of area you think is bad and 1 inch further out to check for wet core so you can take care of it all at once. A Dremel or Fein cutter work well to cut skin and help with skin(s) cleanup. Taper both sides of cut edges before removing skin makes it easier to reinstall. Pack under edges with thickened epoxy. When putting back it all together remember to cover with plastic before putting weight on top. Google deck repair hundreds of sites come up but Tim Lackey @ lackeysailing.com does a great job documenting core repairs on his website doing boat repairs. Among repairing others boats his own boat is listed under projects: Glissando (Pearsodon Triton) documents from finding it, getting home, to deck repair and replacing the interior. Everything a boatyard does he has done but he shares the knowledge freely with customers and DIY owners. Jim Current project boat 1960 something Pearson Resolute (daysailer) #9 I found it after it had been sitting on a trailer for over 10 yrs From: mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, April 19, 2011 9:29:20 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] deck damage (Chris C.)n Amen, Brother! Mike M. On 4/19/2011 9:31 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > If you do a quickie, half-assed job, some future owner will be cursing > you into eternity. Do it right the first time.

On 4/19/2011 10:29 AM, mike wrote: > > Amen, Brother! > Mike M. > > On 4/19/2011 9:31 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > If you do a quickie, half-assed job, some future owner will be cursing > > you into eternity. Do it right the first time. > My other boat was 7 years old when we got her 43 years ago. The first two owners managed to do more damage in the first 7 years than we have done since. They applied paint with a trowel or a rake or a shovel or something. They sanded through veneers. They had the original mainsail recut into something resembling a fat lady in a tight bikini. On the other hand, the original owner of my Cal 20 was not only a good sailor but also a careful worker. He made several pieces of hardware, such as the gooseneck fitting for the tiller extension and a latching arrangement for the forward hatch. You can see where he moved or changed hardware carefully. Every time my eye falls on one of his actions, I remember him fondly. Chris Campbell > > > >

A correct repair for core damage is as follows. * Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually inspect the wood core. * Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet area. * Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. * Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. * Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in the shavings. * Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. * The new piece should be large enough to independently take spread any load. * Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or the new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station base... maybe 4x. * Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. * Make a new marine core deck replacement pies * Glue into place with West 610 * Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with deck, avoid air gaps * Re-skin repair area * Oversize drill new stanchion holes * Fill new holes with epoxy (610) * Re-drill stanchion holes - no wood should be visible, only the epoxy core. * Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole * Make up a backing plate to spread forces * I like waxed Ipe "ironwood" for backing plates, strongest wood, hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. * Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc * Use stainless fasteners and fender washers dEmO On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:gr… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? Thanks for any advice. Greg

A correct repair for core damage is as follows. * Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually inspect the wood core. * Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet area. * Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. * Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. * Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in the shavings. * Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. * The new piece should be large enough to independently take spread any load. * Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or the new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station base... maybe 4x. * Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. * Make a new marine core deck replacement pies * Glue into place with West 610 * Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with deck, avoid air gaps * Re-skin repair area * Oversize drill new stanchion holes * Fill new holes with epoxy (610) * Re-drill stanchion holes - no wood should be visible, only the epoxy core. * Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole * Make up a backing plate to spread forces * I like waxed Ipe "ironwood" for backing plates, strongest wood, hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. * Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc * Use stainless fasteners and fender washers dEmO On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:gr… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? Thanks for any advice. Greg

excellent tutorial, Timmo, but I liked the suggestion of overdrilling the holes prior to re-skinning. Let the new skin act as the bottom seal. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ti… [at] ch2m.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:16:05 -0600 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage A correct repair for core damage is as follows. · Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually inspect the wood core. · Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet area. · Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. · Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. · Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in the shavings. · Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. · The new piece should be large enough to independently take spread any load. · Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or the new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station base… maybe 4x. · Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. · Make a new marine core deck replacement pies · Glue into place with West 610 · Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with deck, avoid air gaps · Re-skin repair area · Oversize drill new stanchion holes · Fill new holes with epoxy (610) · Re-drill stanchion holes – no wood should be visible, only the epoxy core. · Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole · Make up a backing plate to spread forces · I like waxed Ipe “ironwood” for backing plates, strongest wood, hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. · Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc · Use stainless fasteners and fender washers dEmO On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? Thanks for any advice. Greg

There's more than one way to skin a Deck. ;-) From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:03 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage excellent tutorial, Timmo, but I liked the suggestion of overdrilling the holes prior to re-skinning. Let the new skin act as the bottom seal. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ti… [at] ch2m.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:16:05 -0600 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage A correct repair for core damage is as follows. * Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually inspect the wood core. * Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet area. * Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. * Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. * Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in the shavings. * Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. * The new piece should be large enough to independently take spread any load. * Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or the new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station base... maybe 4x. * Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. * Make a new marine core deck replacement pies * Glue into place with West 610 * Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with deck, avoid air gaps * Re-skin repair area * Oversize drill new stanchion holes * Fill new holes with epoxy (610) * Re-drill stanchion holes - no wood should be visible, only the epoxy core. * Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole * Make up a backing plate to spread forces * I like waxed Ipe "ironwood" for backing plates, strongest wood, hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. * Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc * Use stainless fasteners and fender washers dEmO On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:gr… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? Thanks for any advice. Greg

And more than one way to stack a Belleville washer. (courtesy Wikipedia)) You might consider using such a "spring" washer at Stanchion posts.. or not. [cid:image008.jpg@01CBFEBA.B8DC2B40]<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Belleville_washer.jpg> Calculation [cid:image001.png@01CBFEBA.5C310640]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> [cid:image002.png@01CBFEBA.5C310640]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> 2-3-1-2 stack of washers If friction and bottoming-out effects are ignored, the spring rate of a stack of identical Belleville washers can be quickly approximated. Counting from one end of the stack, group by the number of adjacent washers in parallel. For example, in the stack of washers to the right, the grouping is 2-3-1-2, because there is a group of 2 washers in parallel, then a group of 3, then a single washer, then another group of 2. The total spring coefficient is: [cid:image003.png@01CBFEBA.5C310640] [cid:image004.png@01CBFEBA.5C310640] [cid:image005.png@01CBFEBA.5C310640] Where * ni = the number of washers in the ith group * g = the number of groups * k = the spring constant of one washer So, a 2-3-1-2 stack (or, since addition is commutative, a 3-2-2-1 stack) gives a spring constant of 3/7 that of a single washer. These same 8 washers can be arranged in a 3-3-2 configuration (K = 6/7*k), a 4-4 configuration (K = 2*k), a 2-2-2-2 configuration (K = 1/2*k), and various other configurations. The number of unique ways to stack n washers is defined by the integer partition function p(n)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(number_theory)#Partition_function> and increases rapidly with large n, allowing fine-tuning of the spring constant. However, each configuration will have a different length, requiring the use of shims<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(engineering)> in most cases. From: Lessley, Timm/TCA Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:54 PM To: 'Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage There's more than one way to skin a Deck. ;-) From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:03 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage excellent tutorial, Timmo, but I liked the suggestion of overdrilling the holes prior to re-skinning. Let the new skin act as the bottom seal. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ti… [at] ch2m.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:16:05 -0600 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage A correct repair for core damage is as follows. * Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually inspect the wood core. * Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet area. * Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. * Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. * Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in the shavings. * Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. * The new piece should be large enough to independently take spread any load. * Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or the new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station base... maybe 4x. * Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. * Make a new marine core deck replacement pies * Glue into place with West 610 * Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with deck, avoid air gaps * Re-skin repair area * Oversize drill new stanchion holes * Fill new holes with epoxy (610) * Re-drill stanchion holes - no wood should be visible, only the epoxy core. * Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole * Make up a backing plate to spread forces * I like waxed Ipe "ironwood" for backing plates, strongest wood, hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. * Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc * Use stainless fasteners and fender washers dEmO On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:gr… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? Thanks for any advice. Greg

I want to add one or two items to the deck repair (invited or not). When doing a spot repair instead of a redeck, I cut the piece of replacement wood first. Then, from below, I press or bolt it up to where I want it to go (can use old holes to bolt it in). If the spot is near an open area, then it can be clamped up. Then using the Rockwell Sonicrafter or Fein Master, I cut around the new piece into the deck (from below) using a flat cutting tool. This way, the resulting hole is a perfect match for the piece I want to install. No templating needed. Also, make sure there are no old ridges (e.g., old polyester or epoxy) in the area below the deck where you cut out the wood. You want a good flat fit for the new part. Acetone the contact area. I use Mas epoxy with fiber thickener, but many epoxies can do the function adequately. I find the Mas easy to deal with. Plastic covers underneath the work, etc etc...) Timm, I thought the equations below described the probability of generating a pion from a proton-antiproton collision at 7.3 TEV. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ti… [at] ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:54 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage And more than one way to stack a Belleville washer. (courtesy Wikipedia)) You might consider using such a "spring" washer at Stanchion posts.. or not. [cid:366342712@20042011-1A90]<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Belleville_washer.jpg> Calculation [cid:366342712@20042011-1A97]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> [cid:366342712@20042011-1A9E]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> 2-3-1-2 stack of washers If friction and bottoming-out effects are ignored, the spring rate of a stack of identical Belleville washers can be quickly approximated. Counting from one end of the stack, group by the number of adjacent washers in parallel. For example, in the stack of washers to the right, the grouping is 2-3-1-2, because there is a group of 2 washers in parallel, then a group of 3, then a single washer, then another group of 2. The total spring coefficient is: [cid:366342712@20042011-1AA5] [cid:366342712@20042011-1AAC] [cid:366342712@20042011-1AB3] Where * ni = the number of washers in the ith group * g = the number of groups * k = the spring constant of one washer So, a 2-3-1-2 stack (or, since addition is commutative, a 3-2-2-1 stack) gives a spring constant of 3/7 that of a single washer. These same 8 washers can be arranged in a 3-3-2 configuration (K = 6/7*k), a 4-4 configuration (K = 2*k), a 2-2-2-2 configuration (K = 1/2*k), and various other configurations. The number of unique ways to stack n washers is defined by the integer partition function p(n)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(number_theory)#Partition_function> and increases rapidly with large n, allowing fine-tuning of the spring constant. However, each configuration will have a different length, requiring the use of shims<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(engineering)> in most cases. From: Lessley, Timm/TCA Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:54 PM To: 'Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage There's more than one way to skin a Deck. ;-) From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:03 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage excellent tutorial, Timmo, but I liked the suggestion of overdrilling the holes prior to re-skinning. Let the new skin act as the bottom seal. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ti… [at] ch2m.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:16:05 -0600 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage A correct repair for core damage is as follows. * Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually inspect the wood core. * Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet area. * Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. * Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. * Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in the shavings. * Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. * The new piece should be large enough to independently take spread any load. * Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or the new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station base... maybe 4x. * Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. * Make a new marine core deck replacement pies * Glue into place with West 610 * Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with deck, avoid air gaps * Re-skin repair area * Oversize drill new stanchion holes * Fill new holes with epoxy (610) * Re-drill stanchion holes - no wood should be visible, only the epoxy core. * Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole * Make up a backing plate to spread forces * I like waxed Ipe "ironwood" for backing plates, strongest wood, hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. * Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc * Use stainless fasteners and fender washers dEmO On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:gr… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? Thanks for any advice. Greg

Don't you guys want beveled edges on the wood you are putting in so that it has some load transfer to the old core? Or is the core considered no strength so it doesn't matter? Allen On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:41 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com > wrote: > > > I want to add one or two items to the deck repair (invited or not). > > When doing a spot repair instead of a redeck, I cut the piece of > replacement wood first. Then, from below, I press or bolt it up to where I > want it to go (can use old holes to bolt it in). If the spot is near an > open area, then it can be clamped up. Then using the Rockwell Sonicrafter > or Fein Master, I cut around the new piece into the deck (from below) using > a flat cutting tool. This way, the resulting hole is a perfect match for > the piece I want to install. No templating needed. > > Also, make sure there are no old ridges (e.g., old polyester or epoxy) in > the area below the deck where you cut out the wood. You want a good flat > fit for the new part. Acetone the contact area. > > I use Mas epoxy with fiber thickener, but many epoxies can do the function > adequately. I find the Mas easy to deal with. > > Plastic covers underneath the work, etc etc...) > > Timm, I thought the equations below described the probability of generating > a pion from a proton-antiproton collision at 7.3 TEV. > > Cheers > Charlie > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *ti… [at] ch2m.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:54 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage > > And more than one way to stack a Belleville washer. (courtesy Wikipedia)) > > > > You might consider using such a “spring” washer at Stanchion posts.. or > not. > > > > [image: File:Belleville washer.jpg]<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Belleville_washer.jpg> > > > Calculation > > [image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Belleville_3221.png]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> > > [image: > http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.17/common/images/magnify-clip.png]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> > > 2-3-1-2 stack of washers > > If friction and bottoming-out effects are ignored, the spring rate of a > stack of identical Belleville washers can be quickly approximated. Counting > from one end of the stack, group by the number of adjacent washers in > parallel. For example, in the stack of washers to the right, the grouping is > 2-3-1-2, because there is a group of 2 washers in parallel, then a group of > 3, then a single washer, then another group of 2. > > The total spring coefficient is: > > [image: K = \frac{k}{\sum_{i=1}^g \frac{1}{n_i}}] > > [image: K = \frac{k}{\frac{1}{2}+\frac{1}{3}+\frac{1}{1}+\frac{1}{2}}] > > [image: K = \frac{3}{7} k] > > Where > > - *ni* = the number of washers in the ith group > - g = the number of groups > - k = the spring constant of one washer > > So, a 2-3-1-2 stack (or, since addition is commutative, a 3-2-2-1 stack) > gives a spring constant of 3/7 that of a single washer. These same 8 washers > can be arranged in a 3-3-2 configuration (K = 6/7*k), a 4-4 configuration (K > = 2*k), a 2-2-2-2 configuration (K = 1/2*k), and various other > configurations. The number of unique ways to stack *n* washers is defined > by the integer partition function *p*(*n*)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(number_theory)#Partition_function>and increases rapidly with large > *n*, allowing fine-tuning of the spring constant. However, each > configuration will have a different length, requiring the use of shims<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(engineering)>in most cases. > > > > > > *From:* Lessley, Timm/TCA > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:54 PM > *To:* 'Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com' > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage > > > > There’s more than one way to skin a > > Deck. ;-) > > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *r good > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:03 PM > *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage > > > > > > excellent tutorial, Timmo, but I liked the suggestion of overdrilling the > holes prior to re-skinning. Let the new skin act as the bottom seal. > Reggie > > ------------------------------ > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: ti… [at] ch2m.com > Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:16:05 -0600 > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage > > > > > > A correct repair for core damage is as follows. > > > > · Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually > inspect the wood core. > > · Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet > area. > > · Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. > > · Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. > > · Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in > the shavings. > > · Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a > chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. > > · The new piece should be large enough to independently take > spread any load. > > · Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or the > new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station > base… maybe 4x. > > · Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. > > · Make a new marine core deck replacement pies > > · Glue into place with West 610 > > · Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with > deck, avoid air gaps > > · Re-skin repair area > > · Oversize drill new stanchion holes > > · Fill new holes with epoxy (610) > > · Re-drill stanchion holes – no wood should be visible, only the > epoxy core. > > · Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole > > · Make up a backing plate to spread forces > > · I like waxed Ipe “ironwood” for backing plates, strongest wood, > hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. > > · Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc > > · Use stainless fasteners and fender washers > > > > dEmO > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water > damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime > size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the > core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory > way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure > this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is > some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would > soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > >

Allen, yes, the core is a big part of the strength, but the epoxy oozes into the joint (and wood edges) to provide good strength there. Have not had a problem. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:44 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] deck damage Don't you guys want beveled edges on the wood you are putting in so that it has some load transfer to the old core? Or is the core considered no strength so it doesn't matter? Allen On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:41 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com<mailto:hu… [at] bah.com>> wrote: I want to add one or two items to the deck repair (invited or not). When doing a spot repair instead of a redeck, I cut the piece of replacement wood first. Then, from below, I press or bolt it up to where I want it to go (can use old holes to bolt it in). If the spot is near an open area, then it can be clamped up. Then using the Rockwell Sonicrafter or Fein Master, I cut around the new piece into the deck (from below) using a flat cutting tool. This way, the resulting hole is a perfect match for the piece I want to install. No templating needed. Also, make sure there are no old ridges (e.g., old polyester or epoxy) in the area below the deck where you cut out the wood. You want a good flat fit for the new part. Acetone the contact area. I use Mas epoxy with fiber thickener, but many epoxies can do the function adequately. I find the Mas easy to deal with. Plastic covers underneath the work, etc etc...) Timm, I thought the equations below described the probability of generating a pion from a proton-antiproton collision at 7.3 TEV. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:54 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage And more than one way to stack a Belleville washer. (courtesy Wikipedia)) You might consider using such a "spring" washer at Stanchion posts.. or not. [?ui=2&ik=e766710ab7&view=att&th=12f734c1bac95e36&attid=0.1&disp=emb&zw]<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Belleville_washer.jpg> Calculation [?ui=2&ik=e766710ab7&view=att&th=12f734c1bac95e36&attid=0.2&disp=emb&zw]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> [?ui=2&ik=e766710ab7&view=att&th=12f734c1bac95e36&attid=0.3&disp=emb&zw]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> 2-3-1-2 stack of washers If friction and bottoming-out effects are ignored, the spring rate of a stack of identical Belleville washers can be quickly approximated. Counting from one end of the stack, group by the number of adjacent washers in parallel. For example, in the stack of washers to the right, the grouping is 2-3-1-2, because there is a group of 2 washers in parallel, then a group of 3, then a single washer, then another group of 2. The total spring coefficient is: [?ui=2&ik=e766710ab7&view=att&th=12f734c1bac95e36&attid=0.4&disp=emb&zw] [?ui=2&ik=e766710ab7&view=att&th=12f734c1bac95e36&attid=0.5&disp=emb&zw] [?ui=2&ik=e766710ab7&view=att&th=12f734c1bac95e36&attid=0.6&disp=emb&zw] Where * ni = the number of washers in the ith group * g = the number of groups * k = the spring constant of one washer So, a 2-3-1-2 stack (or, since addition is commutative, a 3-2-2-1 stack) gives a spring constant of 3/7 that of a single washer. These same 8 washers can be arranged in a 3-3-2 configuration (K = 6/7*k), a 4-4 configuration (K = 2*k), a 2-2-2-2 configuration (K = 1/2*k), and various other configurations. The number of unique ways to stack n washers is defined by the integer partition function p(n)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(number_theory)#Partition_function> and increases rapidly with large n, allowing fine-tuning of the spring constant. However, each configuration will have a different length, requiring the use of shims<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(engineering)> in most cases. From: Lessley, Timm/TCA Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:54 PM To: 'Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>' Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage There's more than one way to skin a Deck. ;-) From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:03 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage excellent tutorial, Timmo, but I liked the suggestion of overdrilling the holes prior to re-skinning. Let the new skin act as the bottom seal. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> From: ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:16:05 -0600 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage A correct repair for core damage is as follows. * Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually inspect the wood core. * Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet area. * Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. * Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. * Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in the shavings. * Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. * The new piece should be large enough to independently take spread any load. * Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or the new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station base... maybe 4x. * Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. * Make a new marine core deck replacement pies * Glue into place with West 610 * Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with deck, avoid air gaps * Re-skin repair area * Oversize drill new stanchion holes * Fill new holes with epoxy (610) * Re-drill stanchion holes - no wood should be visible, only the epoxy core. * Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole * Make up a backing plate to spread forces * I like waxed Ipe "ironwood" for backing plates, strongest wood, hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. * Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc * Use stainless fasteners and fender washers dEmO On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:gr… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be a possibility? Thanks for any advice. Greg

A taper would be a lot stronger both from more surface area for the epoxy but also it would provide direct transfer of any upward force to the neighboring core. That said, I checked the West System article again as I remembered they had a taper in there. The taper they recommend is a 12:1 taper on the fiberglass but the core was straight. I used a 12:1 taper when I repaired my boom (spruce). Allen On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com > wrote: > > > Allen, yes, the core is a big part of the strength, but the epoxy oozes > into the joint (and wood edges) to provide good strength there. Have not > had a problem. > > Cheers > Charlie > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:44 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] deck damage > > Don't you guys want beveled edges on the wood you are putting in so that it > has some load transfer to the old core? Or is the core considered no > strength so it doesn't matter? > > Allen > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:41 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] < > hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > >> >> >> I want to add one or two items to the deck repair (invited or not). >> >> When doing a spot repair instead of a redeck, I cut the piece of >> replacement wood first. Then, from below, I press or bolt it up to where I >> want it to go (can use old holes to bolt it in). If the spot is near an >> open area, then it can be clamped up. Then using the Rockwell Sonicrafter >> or Fein Master, I cut around the new piece into the deck (from below) using >> a flat cutting tool. This way, the resulting hole is a perfect match for >> the piece I want to install. No templating needed. >> >> Also, make sure there are no old ridges (e.g., old polyester or epoxy) in >> the area below the deck where you cut out the wood. You want a good flat >> fit for the new part. Acetone the contact area. >> >> I use Mas epoxy with fiber thickener, but many epoxies can do the function >> adequately. I find the Mas easy to deal with. >> >> Plastic covers underneath the work, etc etc...) >> >> Timm, I thought the equations below described the probability of >> generating a pion from a proton-antiproton collision at 7.3 TEV. >> >> Cheers >> Charlie >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On >> Behalf Of *ti… [at] ch2m.com >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:54 PM >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage >> >> And more than one way to stack a Belleville washer. (courtesy >> Wikipedia)) >> >> >> >> You might consider using such a “spring” washer at Stanchion posts.. or >> not. >> >> >> >> [image: File:Belleville washer.jpg]<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Belleville_washer.jpg> >> >> >> Calculation >> >> [image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Belleville_3221.png]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> >> >> [image: >> http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.17/common/images/magnify-clip.png]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belleville_3221.png> >> >> 2-3-1-2 stack of washers >> >> If friction and bottoming-out effects are ignored, the spring rate of a >> stack of identical Belleville washers can be quickly approximated. Counting >> from one end of the stack, group by the number of adjacent washers in >> parallel. For example, in the stack of washers to the right, the grouping is >> 2-3-1-2, because there is a group of 2 washers in parallel, then a group of >> 3, then a single washer, then another group of 2. >> >> The total spring coefficient is: >> >> [image: K = \frac{k}{\sum_{i=1}^g \frac{1}{n_i}}] >> >> [image: K = \frac{k}{\frac{1}{2}+\frac{1}{3}+\frac{1}{1}+\frac{1}{2}}] >> >> [image: K = \frac{3}{7} k] >> >> Where >> >> - *ni* = the number of washers in the ith group >> - g = the number of groups >> - k = the spring constant of one washer >> >> So, a 2-3-1-2 stack (or, since addition is commutative, a 3-2-2-1 stack) >> gives a spring constant of 3/7 that of a single washer. These same 8 washers >> can be arranged in a 3-3-2 configuration (K = 6/7*k), a 4-4 configuration (K >> = 2*k), a 2-2-2-2 configuration (K = 1/2*k), and various other >> configurations. The number of unique ways to stack *n* washers is defined >> by the integer partition function *p*(*n*)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(number_theory)#Partition_function>and increases rapidly with large >> *n*, allowing fine-tuning of the spring constant. However, each >> configuration will have a different length, requiring the use of shims<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(engineering)>in most cases. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Lessley, Timm/TCA >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:54 PM >> *To:* 'Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com' >> *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage >> >> >> >> There’s more than one way to skin a >> >> Deck. ;-) >> >> >> >> *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On >> Behalf Of *r good >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:03 PM >> *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage >> >> >> >> excellent tutorial, Timmo, but I liked the suggestion of overdrilling >> the holes prior to re-skinning. Let the new skin act as the bottom seal. >> Reggie >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> From: ti… [at] ch2m.com >> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:16:05 -0600 >> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] deck damage >> >> >> >> >> >> A correct repair for core damage is as follows. >> >> >> >> · Remove any paint in the area from the underside to visually >> inspect the wood core. >> >> · Remove the fiberglass skin that coats the wood, in the dark/wet >> area. >> >> · Tap out or use a screw driver to map out the solid area. >> >> · Dry the area using a fan and or heat for a few days. >> >> · Drill some test holes in the core to check moisture levels in >> the shavings. >> >> · Mark the area to be repaired and remove the core, using a >> chisel, router, Fein Multimaster or whatever works for you. >> >> · The new piece should be large enough to independently take >> spread any load. >> >> · Stanchions can have a large moment, so either the repair, or >> the new backing plate needs to have a larger surface area than your station >> base… maybe 4x. >> >> · Clean the areas and neaten up the edges. >> >> · Make a new marine core deck replacement pies >> >> · Glue into place with West 610 >> >> · Using a jack or other clamps, force piece into contact with >> deck, avoid air gaps >> >> · Re-skin repair area >> >> · Oversize drill new stanchion holes >> >> · Fill new holes with epoxy (610) >> >> · Re-drill stanchion holes – no wood should be visible, only the >> epoxy core. >> >> · Using a countersink, countersink both ends of hole >> >> · Make up a backing plate to spread forces >> >> · I like waxed Ipe “ironwood” for backing plates, strongest >> wood, hardest wood, no rot, and fireproof. >> >> · Use plenty of 4000 caulking on bolts, bases etc >> >> · Use stainless fasteners and fender washers >> >> >> >> dEmO >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Greg Reinhard <gr… [at] yahoo.com> >> wrote: >> >> One of my stanchion bolts compressed the core decking underneath and >> water damage has set in. After removing the bolt there is a hole about a >> dime size in circumfrence and sounding the deck shows that water has damaged >> the core at least six inches surrounding the hole. Is there any >> satisfactory way to self repair this. I hate to pay the price of the yard. >> I figure this is my last boat and I want it to last for the next 4-5 years. >> There is some hardware store stuff that is supposed to fix rotten >> wood....would soaking it with this and then packing the hole with expoxy be >> a possibility? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any advice. >> >> >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >

On 4/20/2011 10:50 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Allen, yes, the core is a big part of the strength, but the epoxy > oozes into the joint (and wood edges) to provide good strength there. Isn't the core mostly performing the function of the web of an I-beam? That is to say, it spaces the upper and lower skins, which provide most of the strength by tension/compression? Of course, it also serves to prevent crushing in the way of hardware fasteners. But mostly it's a spacer. That's why you can use end-grain balsa as a core material. Chris Campbell

I would argue no on that one, as you have forces going in all directions so the core is critical to strengthen the structure. Just like in an I beam or laminated beam. I would argue the decks are more subject to torsional vectors and tension, hence end grain balsa is used, rather then laying it flat, forming a solid but flexible matrix. I think this is one of the issues with corex or foam cored decks like the Albin Ballad as they tend to separate from the skins and create voids. I think this material simply cannot take the twisting that goes on inside the deck laminations so unbinds from the skins and causes problems. Just my 2 cents CDN...:) /ch On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > On 4/20/2011 10:50 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > > > Allen, yes, the core is a big part of the strength, but the epoxy oozes > into the joint (and wood edges) to provide good strength there. > > > Isn't the core mostly performing the function of the web of an I-beam? > That is to say, it spaces the upper and lower skins, which provide most of > the strength by tension/compression? Of course, it also serves to prevent > crushing in the way of hardware fasteners. But mostly it's a spacer. > That's why you can use end-grain balsa as a core material. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > -- /ch

Not really, Chris. The inner skin is negligible, maybe one layer of glas cloth. In our boats, the core is plywood, not come foam or balsa. The wood is tightly bonded to the deck glas layer, and together, they provide the strength of the system. You will also note, that even in the "flat decks", there is a curvature in the deck (3 1/2" at middle at the mast in the CAL 25) that gives a cantilever effect. Consider this a unibody structure that relies on both parts. Cracked deck glas weakens it, and wood rot weakens it. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:23 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] deck damage On 4/20/2011 10:50 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Allen, yes, the core is a big part of the strength, but the epoxy oozes into the joint (and wood edges) to provide good strength there. Isn't the core mostly performing the function of the web of an I-beam? That is to say, it spaces the upper and lower skins, which provide most of the strength by tension/compression? Of course, it also serves to prevent crushing in the way of hardware fasteners. But mostly it's a spacer. That's why you can use end-grain balsa as a core material. Chris Campbell