Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons (Donald)

Donald - Would it have been a problem if it were a licensed fire arm? If it were licensed in Maryland and you were in Florida does that make a difference I wonder? I have a 16ga shotgun, a 12 ga shotgun, a 30.06 and a 22 target pistol all inherited and all of which I can use but none of which are licensed (didn't need a license back then). I guess at some point I should look into licensing them although I hate the thought of the red tape for no other reason than more intrusion by the Govt into my life. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 1/20/2011 12:17:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dn… [at] sbcglobal.net writes: I was glad to hear of your experience as well. Having never owned a weapon until my grandfather passed away and I inherited his WWII collection of derringers, 45's, and a Luger, I always just relied on having my flare gun handy if needed. I can tell you of my boardings in Tampa Bay by the Coast Guard. The very first question that they asked once aboard was, "Are you carrying any weapons?" I got the very strong impression that should I answer no and they found one that I was going to be in BIG trouble. The second question they asked was, "Any storage compartments that were not standard on the boat when purchased?" They made it very clear that if they found a storage area that was designed to hide ANYTHING that we were headed back to port and a possible seizure of the vessel. There main interest was illegal drugs. Since I had neither and all of my safety equipment was in place and working, I got a solid handshake after their 3 hour visit with me! The officer told me that I was his first "all clear" report in his career. He had always found some missing safety equipment that was required on previous boardings that were handled with a "fix it and report back" report. After that boarding, we simply had to show the report to the officer in charge the next two times we were boarded and they simply said, "Have a nice day (night)!" and left without looking at a thing! But, the first question they asked on each successive boarding was, "Do you have any weapons on board?" And they expected a truthful answer. My comment about carrying a shotgun comes from personal experience and from tips from friends both in and out of law enforcement. When we were getting ready to start our aborted trip around the world via sailboat, we were actively debating carrying a weapon. Every book we read talked about the hassles of checking in and out of various countries with a weapon and how difficult it was. Back when we were planning our trip the pirating was not nearly at the level it is now. My own experience on firing ranges put me at a disadvantage of hitting a target with a pistol while I have been able to score a 23 of 25 on a skeet range with a shotgun. 'Nuff said. Were I to go cruising today I would not try to go "around the world." I would cruise to the Med and the South Pacific and skip the middle east altogether. I wouldn't decide to carry a weapon until shortly before I left, but, if I did, I would declare it. That is simply who I am and how I do things and I am NOT being critical of those who have said they have hidden weapons while traveling. We all pick and choose which risks we are willing to live with and how we handle them. I am pretty certain that there is no right or wrong way, just choices. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" PS Boarded the first time while sailing under the I-295 Sunshine Skyway bridge in Tampa Bay while headed toward Sarasota Bay. Allowed to continue s ailing due to our destination and arrival needs, but my wife was at the helm while I accompanied the officer for the entire 3 hour tour! Every cushion and bunk was inspected and every locker and drawer opened. Contents of the refrigeration were put on display. Second boarding at 12:45 am in Sarasota Bay on New Year's Day and five months after the first. All Coasties wee in a hard bottomed inflatable with a machine gun mounted on the bow and in black outfits and hats and blackface. They left after checking my previous report. They then spent many hours on a neighboring boat. I think I described this boarding in an earlier post. The third was on Tampa Bay on a day sail and lasted 10 minutes. "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 8:37:49 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons (Tom & Bobbie on Satori) Thanks Tom, nothing better than hearing from someone with personal experience in these matters. My personal rule of life is that God helps those who help themselves, so whatever I can do to protect myself, I will. I'm not going to invite danger by sailing up the Somali Coast but I'm not going to let some punks with knives kill my family in the Bahamas or some other presumably safe port because I was afraid to carry a weapon. One of my favorite quotes and I don't remember who it was from is: "Fear the government that fears your guns." Paul In a message dated 1/20/2011 4:40:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bs… [at] yahoo.com writes: Security while cruising is the name of the program we are presenting to our Emerald Coast Women Sailers group on Tuesday,Jan. 25. One of the ladies has been around the world twice. We enjoyed nine years of cruising after retiring in 1988 and since we can no longer roam around due to health issues we feel safe in sharing. Our attitude is that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, plus we have been properly trained in self defense and firearm use. When we felt threatened we always discussed the fact that we may have to take lives to preserve ours, then must get away from that area or country immediately. Fortunately that never happened, although we had several cases where our being prepared made a difference. No one should be more familiar with your boat than yourselves, so "hidey holes" that foreign officials cannot find should be your choice for concealing weapons on board. On our Cal Cruising 46, Satori we hid our stainless steel 12 gauge pump shotgun in an unused vent behind the fridge. The PO, Jack Jensen had a propane fridge with a vent. The vent was behind a cushion near the mast and close to the main companionway where we could easily access it and it was never discovered by Mexican, Costa Rican, Panamanian, Venezuelan, Trinidadian, or any of the many Caribbean island authorities. We always declared our weapons and had them prominently displayed for American inspections. The Bahamas permits you to be armed when in their islands. When we visited Cuba, we left all guns home except Mr. Beretta. For close at hand defense we had our Beretta 9mm semi-automatic pistol concealed in a book that I had carefully cut pages out of. It was on the bookshelf in our main cabin but went to the shelf by my bunk at night. We also carried a Winchester Model 94, lever action 30-30 rifle for long range. If discovered, I intended to claim it as a hunting gun. I believe a military type weapon such as an AR could have caused more problems if discovered. In our main cabin we have two rows of storage drawers with space alongside the hull where we concealed the rifle in it's case. By removing two drawers we could have it out and ready in about two minutes. We practiced getting these weapons out and firing them on a regular basis, going to a range whenever possible. It was a bit embarrasing for this old Marine when my left handed wife, Bobbie scored better with each weapon. I am not suggesting you have firearms on board, just reporting what we did. In our nine years of cruising, we had four incidents where we had guns in hand, usually Bobbie down below with the shotgun and me on deck with the pistol in my pocket and a machete partially concealed behind my back. When the "bad guys" saw we were prepared, they went away or asked if they could trade lobsters for gasoline. In 1994 we were hired to help deliver a 83' Berger from Trinidad back to Ft. Lauderdale. Knowing the reputation of St. Vincent, we elected to stay five miles offshore and transit that area at night. As dark approached, a panga with several swarthy lads fell in behind us, at first about 1/4 mile, then about 100 yards, just following. It was clear to us they intended to do harm. I went to the afterdeck with the 30-30 and levered in a round making sure they could see me. They immediately turned and headed back toward their $hit hole island. There are some places just too unsafe to visit, like parts of Los Angeles, off Somali, and others. Keep in touch with other cruisers on the Ham radio nets and find out about places to avoid. Your mileage may vary. Be prepared! Tom and Bobbie Vandiver, Cal Cruising 46, Hull #3, Satori, swallowed the anchor in Bayou Chico, FL N30 24.329 by W087 15.767 From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 10:01:56 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons (Donald, Chris, Mike & Helen) Donald - I agree that shotguns would be a better defense, I was just thinking more in terms of being able to hide a pistol or two much easier. Helen and those of you who've sailed to Mexico or other countries - how hard do they search your boat and do they use any special equipment to detect a gun hidden in a secret compartment. I tend to live by the rule that it is easier to ask for forgiveness afterwards than to ask for permission beforehand. Chris - What is a Zarpa? And again, if you hide your weapons how do they know you have them? I'm not talking about hiding them in a locker I'm talking about creating a place that doesn't look like it opens or should open. There are lots of places like that on a Cal 39. Mike - Wonder if you could cut the barrel off a 12 ga shotgun and call it a flare gun? Could easily hide real 12ga shells with magnum loads. Thanks for your input - Paul In a message dated 1/18/2011 5:36:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dn… [at] sbcglobal.net writes: I highly recommend that you skip the pistols and purchase one or two shotguns. If you talk to law enforcement officers who have fired their weapons under stress, they will tell you that the movies have made us all believe that you can hit a target with a handgun when the adrenaline is pumping. Real life tells of dozens of shots missing their marks. A shotgun, with a barrel as short as possible, will put up a pattern of defense that covers a relatively large area compared to the single bullet of a pistol. You are much more likely to stop your predator if you are armed with a scatter gun! Most cruising sailors that I have talked to started out carrying a weapon and then sold it due to all of the declarations and issues that arose as they tried to enter and leave countries with the weapon. I would rather choose my route to avoid trouble spots than have to go through all of the hassles that the governments of many countries put up to persons trying to carry arms with them on a cruise. Carry extra flares instead and plan on aiming a flare gun directly at someone who has approached you and threatened you within 5 or 10 yards. Well aimed flares have done a good job in cruising lore of fending off intruders. There is no real answer. This is truly a damned if you do, damned if you don't issue and there are stories that abound to support both sides of the argument. I have personally kept every flare I have ever bought and found that many that are 10 years out of active duty will still fire without incident. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 18, 2011 9:09:56 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Age and More Sailing Lore (was CAL33-2) I met a couple in their 80's that were ending their cruising life last summer. She didn't want to but he did as I assume (dangerous I know) he was just tired of doing all the heavy lifting so to speak. I wanted to take them to dinner and bleed their minds but they had to leave before I got the chance. Bums me out. RE: pirates . . . if/when we finally set out for a year or two on our cruise, I fully intend to carry one or two weapons (pistols) with me but also fully intend to stay out of areas where pirates have been reported. Maybe it's my Texas roots, but I'll be damned if I'm going to subject my family to violence that can be prevented or stopped with a show of force. I already know where I'm going to hide them where they'll be readily accessible. Most if not all episodes of pirating that I read about could have ended better had the sailors had a weapon. I realize others will not agree with this and that's their prerogative. Not trying to start a new thread or arguments just stating my opinion. Like the song says: "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun, you might meet'em both if you show up here not welcome son" Paul

Paul, Yes, it would have made a difference. He was clear that if I declared a weapon and all was in order, it would not have been a problem. But, it was the first thing he wanted to know and take care of. While he searched there remained an armed man in the cockpit with my wife and daughters while the patrol boat followed about 20 yards behind with 4 men on board. They boarded and exited on my windward side while underway -- very professional and very good boat handling. They kept the bow of the hard-bottomed inflatable with two bumpers pressed against the stern quarter of my boat while boarding and exiting. I felt very comfortable with them and believe that, had I been armed, and everything was proper and declared, there would not have been trouble. The coast guard has none of the search and seizure requirements of land bound law enforcement and can board and search a vessel at will and without cause. He did not "toss" the boat, but asked me to open and empty everything and then gave me the time to put everything back as it had been. At some point in time he told me this was the way until he found something and then his men would take over the search. They never had to and all ended well. I don't know about the different state question. Haven't ever had a weapon to license. In fact, I guess I need to find out if I need to let California know that I have the guns I inherited. I consider them to be more museum pieces than guns and never plan to fire them. But, no one believes what you say now a days, so I suppose I should look into it. Don Dutton "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 9:29:26 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons (Donald) Donald - Would it have been a problem if it were a licensed fire arm? If it were licensed in Maryland and you were in Florida does that make a difference I wonder? I have a 16ga shotgun, a 12 ga shotgun, a 30.06 and a 22 target pistol all inherited and all of which I can use but none of which are licensed (didn't need a license back then). I guess at some point I should look into licensing them although I hate the thought of the red tape for no other reason than more intrusion by the Govt into my life. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 1/20/2011 12:17:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dn… [at] sbcglobal.net writes: >I was glad to hear of your experience as well. Having never owned a weapon >until my grandfather passed away and I inherited his WWII collection of >derringers, 45's, and a Luger, I always just relied on having my flare gun >handy if needed. I can tell you of my boardings in Tampa Bay by the Coast >Guard. The very first question that they asked once aboard was, "Are you >carrying any weapons?" I got the very strong impression that should I answer >no and they found one that I was going to be in BIG trouble. > > >The second question they asked was, "Any storage compartments that were not >standard on the boat when purchased?" They made it very clear that if they >found a storage area that was designed to hide ANYTHING that we were headed >back to port and a possible seizure of the vessel. There main interest was >illegal drugs. Since I had neither and all of my safety equipment was in >place and working, I got a solid handshake after their 3 hour visit with me! >The officer told me that I was his first "all clear" report in his career. >He had always found some missing safety equipment that was required on >previous boardings that were handled with a "fix it and report back" report. >After that boarding, we simply had to show the report to the officer in >charge the next two times we were boarded and they simply said, "Have a nice >day (night)!" and left without looking at a thing! > > >But, the first question they asked on each successive boarding was, "Do you >have any weapons on board?" And they expected a truthful answer. > >My comment about carrying a shotgun comes from personal experience and from >tips from friends both in and out of law enforcement. When we were getting >ready to start our aborted trip around the world via sailboat, we were >actively debating carrying a weapon. Every book we read talked about the >hassles of checking in and out of various countries with a weapon and how >difficult it was. Back when we were planning our trip the pirating was not >nearly at the level it is now. My own experience on firing ranges put me at >a disadvantage of hitting a target with a pistol while I have been able to >score a 23 of 25 on a skeet range with a shotgun. 'Nuff said. > >Were I to go cruising today I would not try to go "around the world." I >would cruise to the Med and the South Pacific and skip the middle east >altogether. I wouldn't decide to carry a weapon until shortly before I left, >but, if I did, I would declare it. That is simply who I am and how I do >things and I am NOT being critical of those who have said they have hidden >weapons while traveling. We all pick and choose which risks we are willing >to live with and how we handle them. I am pretty certain that there is no >right or wrong way, just choices. > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > >PS Boarded the first time while sailing under the I-295 Sunshine Skyway >bridge in Tampa Bay while headed toward Sarasota Bay. Allowed to continue >sailing due to our destination and arrival needs, but my wife was at the helm >while I accompanied the officer for the entire 3 hour tour! Every cushion and >bunk was inspected and every locker and drawer opened. Contents of the >refrigeration were put on display. Second boarding at 12:45 am in Sarasota >Bay on New Year's Day and five months after the first. All Coasties wee in a >hard bottomed inflatable with a machine gun mounted on the bow and in black >outfits and hats and blackface. They left after checking my previous >report. They then spent many hours on a neighboring boat. I think I >described this boarding in an earlier post. The third was on Tampa Bay on a >day sail and lasted 10 minutes. > > >"Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you >didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away >from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. >Discover." ........Mark Twain > > > > > From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 8:37:49 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons (Tom & Bobbie on Satori) > > >Thanks Tom, nothing better than hearing from someone with personal experience >in these matters. > > >My personal rule of life is that God helps those who help themselves, so >whatever I can do to protect myself, I will. I'm not going to invite danger >by sailing up the Somali Coast but I'm not going to let some punks with >knives kill my family in the Bahamas or some other presumably safe port >because I was afraid to carry a weapon. > >One of my favorite quotes and I don't remember who it was from is: "Fear the >government that fears your guns." > >Paul > > >In a message dated 1/20/2011 4:40:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >bs… [at] yahoo.com writes: > >> >> >>Security while cruising is the name of the program we are presenting to our >>Emerald Coast Women Sailers group on Tuesday,Jan. 25. One of the ladies has >>been around the world twice. We enjoyed nine years of cruising after >>retiring in 1988 and since we can no longer roam around due to health >>issues we feel safe in sharing. Our attitude is that it is better to be >>judged by 12 than carried by 6, plus we have been properly trained in self >>defense and firearm use. When we felt threatened we always discussed the >>fact that we may have to take lives to preserve ours, then must get away >>from that area or country immediately. Fortunately that never happened, >>although we had several cases where our being prepared made a difference. >> >> >>No one should be more familiar with your boat than yourselves, so "hidey >>holes" that foreign officials cannot find should be your choice for >>concealing weapons on board. >> >>On our Cal Cruising 46, Satori we hid our stainless steel 12 gauge pump >>shotgun in an unused vent behind the fridge. The PO, Jack Jensen had a >>propane fridge with a vent. The vent was behind a cushion near the mast and >>close to the main companionway where we could easily access it and it was >>never discovered by Mexican, Costa Rican, Panamanian, Venezuelan, >>Trinidadian, or any of the many Caribbean island authorities. We always >>declared our weapons and had them prominently displayed for American >>inspections. The Bahamas permits you to be armed when in their islands. >>When we visited Cuba, we left all guns home except Mr. Beretta. >> >> >>For close at hand defense we had our Beretta 9mm semi-automatic pistol >>concealed in a book that I had carefully cut pages out of. It was on the >>bookshelf in our main cabin but went to the shelf by my bunk at night. We >>also carried a Winchester Model 94, lever action 30-30 rifle for long >>range. If discovered, I intended to claim it as a hunting gun. I believe a >>military type weapon such as an AR could have caused more problems if >>discovered. In our main cabin we have two rows of storage drawers with >>space alongside the hull where we concealed the rifle in it's case. By >>removing two drawers we could have it out and ready in about two minutes. >> >> >>We practiced getting these weapons out and firing them on a regular basis, >>going to a range whenever possible. It was a bit embarrasing for this old >>Marine when my left handed wife, Bobbie scored better with each weapon. >> >> >>I am not suggesting you have firearms on board, just reporting what we did. >> >> >>In our nine years of cruising, we had four incidents where we had guns in >>hand, usually Bobbie down below with the shotgun and me on deck with the >>pistol in my pocket and a machete partially concealed behind my back. When >>the "bad guys" saw we were prepared, they went away or asked if they could >>trade lobsters for gasoline. >> >>In 1994 we were hired to help deliver a 83' Berger from Trinidad back to >>Ft. Lauderdale. Knowing the reputation of St. Vincent, we elected to stay >>five miles offshore and transit that area at night. As dark approached, a >>panga with several swarthy lads fell in behind us, at first about 1/4 mile, >>then about 100 yards, just following. It was clear to us they intended to do >>harm. I went to the afterdeck with the 30-30 and levered in a round making >>sure they could see me. They immediately turned and headed back toward their >>$hit hole island. >> >> >>There are some places just too unsafe to visit, like parts of Los Angeles, >>off Somali, and others. Keep in touch with other cruisers on the Ham radio >>nets and find out about places to avoid. >> >> >>Your mileage may vary. >> >>Be prepared! >> >>Tom and Bobbie Vandiver, Cal Cruising 46, Hull #3, Satori, swallowed the >>anchor in Bayou Chico, FL N30 24.329 by W087 15.767 >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 10:01:56 PM >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons (Donald, Chris, Mike & Helen) >> >> >> >>Donald - I agree that shotguns would be a better defense, I was just >>thinking more in terms of being able to hide a pistol or two much easier. >> >> >>Helen and those of you who've sailed to Mexico or other countries - how >>hard do they search your boat and do they use any special equipment to >>detect a gun hidden in a secret compartment. I tend to live by the rule >>that it is easier to ask for forgiveness afterwards than to ask for >>permission beforehand. >> >> >>Chris - What is a Zarpa? And again, if you hide your weapons how do they >>know you have them? I'm not talking about hiding them in a locker I'm >>talking about creating a place that doesn't look like it opens or should >>open. There are lots of places like that on a Cal 39. >> >> >>Mike - Wonder if you could cut the barrel off a 12 ga shotgun and call it a >>flare gun? Could easily hide real 12ga shells with magnum loads. >> >> >>Thanks for your input - >> >>Paul >> >> >> >> >>In a message dated 1/18/2011 5:36:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>dn… [at] sbcglobal.net writes: >> >> >>> >>>I highly recommend that you skip the pistols and purchase one or two >>>shotguns. If you talk to law enforcement officers who have fired their >>>weapons under stress, they will tell you that the movies have made us all >>>believe that you can hit a target with a handgun when the adrenaline is >>>pumping. Real life tells of dozens of shots missing their marks. A >>>shotgun, with a barrel as short as possible, will put up a pattern of >>>defense that covers a relatively large area compared to the single bullet >>>of a pistol. You are much more likely to stop your predator if you are >>>armed with a scatter gun! >>> >>> >>>Most cruising sailors that I have talked to started out carrying a weapon >>>and then sold it due to all of the declarations and issues that arose as >>>they tried to enter and leave countries with the weapon. I would rather >>>choose my route to avoid trouble spots than have to go through all of the >>>hassles that the governments of many countries put up to persons trying >>>to carry arms with them on a cruise. Carry extra flares instead and plan >>>on aiming a flare gun directly at someone who has approached you and >>>threatened you within 5 or 10 yards. Well aimed flares have done a good >>>job in cruising lore of fending off intruders. >>> >>>There is no real answer. This is truly a damned if you do, damned if you >>>don't issue and there are stories that abound to support both sides of >>>the argument. I have personally kept every flare I have ever bought and >>>found that many that are 10 years out of active duty will still fire >>>without incident. >>> >>> Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >>> >>> >>>"Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you >>>didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail >>>away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. >>>Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Tue, January 18, 2011 9:09:56 AM >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Age and More Sailing Lore (was CAL33-2) >>> >>> >>> >>>I met a couple in their 80's that were ending their cruising life last >>>summer. She didn't want to but he did as I assume (dangerous I know) he >>>was just tired of doing all the heavy lifting so to speak. I wanted to >>>take them to dinner and bleed their minds but they had to leave before I >>>got the chance. Bums me out. >>> >>>RE: pirates . . . if/when we finally set out for a year or two on our >>>cruise, I fully intend to carry one or two weapons (pistols) with me but >>>also fully intend to stay out of areas where pirates have been reported. >>>Maybe it's my Texas roots, but I'll be damned if I'm going to subject my >>>family to violence that can be prevented or stopped with a show of >>>force. I already know where I'm going to hide them where they'll be >>>readily accessible. Most if not all episodes of pirating that I read >>>about could have ended better had the sailors had a weapon. >>> >>> >>>I realize others will not agree with this and that's their prerogative. >>>Not trying to start a new thread or arguments just stating my opinion. >>> >>> >>>Like the song says: >>> >>>"Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun, >>>you might meet'em both if you show up here not welcome son" >>> >>>Paul >>> >>>

Donald - That's good news that they don't care if you have weapons as long as they are registered. Regarding your inherited guns, one of the guns I was to inherit, disappeard from my mom's house, it may turn up later hopefully but it was a 30.06 that was issued to my grandfather in WWI. She was pretty upset that we could not find it as her house is not that big at all. Thanks again and by the way, sorry I called you David Dobbs in one of my previous emails re: your 33-2. Is there even a David Dobbs on this list or am I confusing it with the other list I'm on? "It's a terrible thing to lose your mind" . . . oh well . . . Thanks - Paul

Paul, I believe there is a David Dobbs on the Cal Yahoo list. I didn't mind one bit as my mind and names are both in separate places most of the time. I enjoy almost all of the messages and only comment when I think something is left out or can be added from what has happened to me. Notice it was someone else who pointed out your error, not me!! Keep on sailing. I loved my experience on the Chesapeake and wish I had been there longer. Maybe someday I will be back there. Don Dutton PS I have a sister who is living in Rock Hall. We are estranged due to her abusive behavior toward men and family. Should you meet her, good luck. I recommend you not trust her. "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:36:17 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons (Donald) Donald - That's good news that they don't care if you have weapons as long as they are registered. Regarding your inherited guns, one of the guns I was to inherit, disappeard from my mom's house, it may turn up later hopefully but it was a 30.06 that was issued to my grandfather in WWI. She was pretty upset that we could not find it as her house is not that big at all. Thanks again and by the way, sorry I called you David Dobbs in one of my previous emails re: your 33-2. Is there even a David Dobbs on this list or am I confusing it with the other list I'm on? "It's a terrible thing to lose your mind" . . . oh well . . . Thanks - Paul

OOps! Sorry to the group. I thought this was a private reply to Paul West. While everything I said is true, I didn't mean to broadcast my family situation to the entire group -- my bad. Donald Dutton From: Donald Dutton <dn… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:55:13 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons (Donald) Paul, I believe there is a David Dobbs on the Cal Yahoo list. I didn't mind one bit as my mind and names are both in separate places most of the time. I enjoy almost all of the messages and only comment when I think something is left out or can be added from what has happened to me. Notice it was someone else who pointed out your error, not me!! Keep on sailing. I loved my experience on the Chesapeake and wish I had been there longer. Maybe someday I will be back there. Don Dutton Recent Activity: * New Members 5 * New Files 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with live ammunition. The ad I found said for one time use only. A gun shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html Mike Robinson

Mike, Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to repeat any "stupid human tricks" to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. Here's a rhetorical question for your "gun shops salesperson". Based on their reply below, why is Ruger's "the Judge" not considered a sawed off shot gun. (410 with a 2" barrel) Ymmv John From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM To: Cal boats List Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with live ammunition. The ad I found said for one time use only. A gun shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-insert s.html Mike Robinson

Maties, What about industrial strength pepper spray? Our sailing group had a presentation by a security person and he innumerated the advantages of using that, it is non-lethal and will completely incapacitate an aggressor for twenty minutes. I got both my girlfriend and myself a small key chain canister that can be held in your hand so it is always in your hand ready at an instant. No fishing around for a weapon. A larger quantity/home size sprayer will take out a whole group of bad guys. Jerry --- On Thu, 1/20/11, Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** To: "Cal boats List" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:15 PM I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with live ammunition. The ad I found said for one time use only. A gun shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html Mike Robinson

Here in NC, Guns are not “registered” nor “licensed”. You are required to apply for a “permit” to purchase a handgun, legally. Long guns do not require the permits. Technically, here in NC, you would need a permit to inherit handguns. The executor of the estate is the only one that “records” the transfer. Due to increasing violence in the urban communities, I became aware that having self defense weapon was not necessarily a bad thing. I took the courses, applied for my Concealed Carry Permit, and several gun safety classes. Due to the sailing hobby, the handguns I purchased are SS models. I am glad Tom V recounted his story from cruising. I remembered that from previous post, and like the lessons learned. A long gun may be a better deterrent than a Self Defense handgun. I would rather present my strategy 100 yards from the boat, than wait for them to get within range to put hands on the hull. Shotgun would also be great for close “go away” show of armament. Of course the best advice given, stay away from “at risk” areas. I remember a conversation with my Grandfather several decades ago. “grandpa, do you think people are meaner now than when you were a teenager in the 20s?” “No son, there are just a lot more of ‘em! While at Ocracoke this past fall, coast guard were doing dockside checks. The day before, they spent hours going through a 28’ sport fisher. The second question, after asking permission to come aboard, was “do you have a weapon on board?”. My response of “not at this time” gave him a puzzled look, but we continued. My CCP was given to him with my ID. 15 min later, having shown the required documents for registration, safety items (fire extinguishers, PFDs, etc), they printed out a “receipt” showing the vessel to be in compliance. It went into a their Db and if another Coast guard entered the registration # into the system, it would show them my data, compliance issues, etc. they were rather embarrassed when I pointed out they had misspelled my last name in their system. Most power boaters I have met, think the Coast Guard are a nuisance to their hobby. I feel they are help me look out for the safety of myself and my crew or quest. I get annual safety coast guard auxiliary, when they offer the service too. Ymmv John

All, I have been following this thread with interest. While our only foreign waters are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense --Michael-- From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** Mike, Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. Based on their reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed off shot gun. (410 with a 2” barrel) Ymmv John From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM To: Cal boats List Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html Mike Robinson

I want one. This is a legal flare gun? Maybe a compromise between the wife and I. She wants no guns, I want a 50 cal. Rich From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 8:23:24 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** All, I have been following this thread with interest. While our only foreign waters are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense --Michael-- From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** Mike, Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. Based on their reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed off shot gun. (410 with a 2” barrel) Ymmv John From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM To: Cal boats List Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html Mike Robinson

The issue with weapons on board or not is not the real issue IMHO. The issue IMHO is are you safe where you are anchored. And there are several things you can do about that. The simple fact is that the lads who choose to take on a private vessel are highly skilled and very good at it, or fools who are trying to copy cat others. With the former, you don't stand a chance, just like walking into a bad neighborhood in any larger town. No need to be their, if you are, your in for a world of hurt. Your call and no amount of weapons or self defense courses will save your butt. Simply too many of them vs you. Its a numbers game that these lads know how to play, and play that game extremely well. You have a weapon, they have 20, all more powerful then what you have and they've been using them on a daily basis..Its a game for them. With the latter group, you may or may not stand a chance pending the luck of the draw. One minute you are safe and the next minute for no apparent reason, someone decides for what ever reasons to empty their concealed weapon on a particular target before you ever see it coming while your sipping a margarita. Safety on board for me at least requires copious amounts of homework, before, during and after. Assess each anchorage before during and after and your experiences after the fact and learn from it. Document it, and learn from it. There are many sources of information on anchorages, locally and internationally. The best source of information is always local, as the local sailing crowd knows exactly whats going on and where. And its current information. What happened last year or six month ago is dated. Times change, just as tides influence the movement of sand bars on a daily basis. So IMHO, the best method of self defense is not to place your vessel in an area where trouble can be foreseen and or is known to have occurred. Once in an anchorage, there are many things you can do to make your boat less of a target and most of these are common sense and require an understanding of the local cultural setting you find yourself in. Don't stick out, don't provide opportunity, don't piss off the locals by being a demanding tourist, don't be where you shouldn't be, keep the boat lit. Dink motors below decks or in a locker. Dinks out of the water. Do enjoy the locals, thats why you are there, Do get to know them, and participate in their lives. Do what you can to be of help and help them economically. Spend your money where it makes a difference as your going to spend it anyways. Do keep a lower profile then at home and do get involved in local stuff whatever it is. Be a friend where ever possible as you are far better off then most folks. The best advise I got was form my former mortgage broker. She was from Trinidad. Once we closed the mortgage, she knew of my plans she offered the following comments: "Remember one thing, everyone is running drugs. It the only income many people have. They don't like to be interrupted nor interfered with. Never buy anything from them as its a trap. The entire Island knows that you are there. Never approach a harbour where you see a local boat doing something. Be cool, blend in, always travel in a group, go out of your way to enjoy local customs. Stay close to other tourist boats. All eyes are always on you, so dont be a dummy. Times have changed, when I go home I dont go out at night, and when my family and I do go out, we go in a group of at least five, as we walk into town and I grew up their and everyone knows me. You will have a great time, no doubt about it, but dont be a dummy rather enjoy what the Islands have to offer. Dont demand your way rather go out of your way to keep the locals happy and enjoy their way of life, participate in it, and enjoy them. Most are good people and its easy to have a good time but there are some that are not. You need to stay away from them as they dont care. You have what they want. Be safe" Best regards YMMV. /ch

IF...a flare gun could be set up to handle a shotgun round, why 12 gauge ammo? Why not 16 gauge or 20 gauge? At those ranges they would be just as effective but less dangerous to the flare gun holder. And why 3" magnum rounds? why not 2 3/4' low base rounds, again for the same reasons? Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ri… [at] yahoo.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:40:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I want one. This is a legal flare gun? Maybe a compromise between the wife and I. She wants no guns, I want a 50 cal. Rich From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 8:23:24 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** All, I have been following this thread with interest. While our only foreign waters are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense --Michael-- From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** Mike, Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. Based on their reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed off shot gun. (410 with a 2” barrel) Ymmv John From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM To: Cal boats List Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html Mike Robinson

Taurus [ not Ruger ] makes 'The Judge". It is legally a handgun [ and not a shotgun ] because of it's rifled barrel. Hey, I don't make the rules ! Joe D On 1/20/2011 10:46 PM, john raxter wrote: > > > Mike, > > Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not > need to repeat any "stupid human tricks" to answer my previous post. > Hopefully none of the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin > club using these things. > > Here's a rhetorical question for your "gun shops salesperson". Based > on their reply below, why is Ruger's "the Judge" not considered a > sawed off shot gun. (410 with a 2" barrel) > > Ymmv > > John > > *From:*Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Michael Robinson > *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM > *To:* Cal boats List > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with > live ammunition. The ad I found said/*_for one time use only_*/. A gun > shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would > constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. > > Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. > "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." > > http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html > > /*Mike Robinson*/ > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3391 - Release Date: 01/19/11 14:34:00 > -- *Joe DeMers - owner* Sound Marine Diesel LLC SoundMarineDiesel.com <http://www.soundmarinediesel.com/> *phone & fax (860) 666-2184*

On 1/21/2011 6:22 AM, john raxter wrote: > > Most power boaters I have met, think the Coast Guard are a nuisance to > their hobby. I feel they are help me look out for the safety of > myself and my crew or quest. I get annual safety coast guard > auxiliary, when they offer the service too. > The CG is known to me primarily from reading about their rescues of foolish people, often in difficult circumstances. Why anybody could regard them as a nuisance is a mystery. The powerboaters, the ones most frequently needing assistance, ought to be doubly grateful. I encounter them most frequently in the river where my other boat lives. They'll be patrolling traffic on a summer weekend and occasionally they pull over one of the powerboats. They have never done that to me. I suspect it's because: --I've got a sailboat, which suggests some knowledge; --my sailboat is old and pretty, with lots of varnished mahogany, which suggests even more competence; --I'm getting to be an old fart and they are all young farts and they may be slightly intimidated by age & apparent experience. Where my Cal 20 lives, our CG station is an air station only (helicopters for the upper Great Lakes region). They don't have much presence on the water. They do inspect our historic schooner at various Lakes ports when we are doing dockside tours to assure public safety. A couple years back the Power Squadron guys were walking the docks and offering courtesy exams. They checked my boat, were impressed that I had a rubber mallet for tapping my fire extinguishers, and withheld full approval only because my flares were old. I've got so many flares of varying elderliness that I figure a few of them have got to still be good, so my inherent cheapness wins out when it comes to buying more. We all need some kind of eccentricity to spice things up. Chris Campbell > >

From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 6:13:22 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** IF...a flare gun could be set up to handle a shotgun round, why 12 gauge ammo? Why not 16 gauge or 20 gauge? At those ranges they would be just as effective but less dangerous to the flare gun holder. And why 3" magnum rounds? why not 2 3/4' low base rounds, again for the same reasons? Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ri… [at] yahoo.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:40:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I want one. This is a legal flare gun? Maybe a compromise between the wife and I. She wants no guns, I want a 50 cal. Rich From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 8:23:24 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** All, I have been following this thread with interest. While our only foreign waters are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense --Michael-- From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** Mike, Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. Based on their reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed off shot gun. (410 with a 2” barrel) Ymmv John From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM To: Cal boats List Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html Mike Robinson

When I lived in pinellas park Florida I had a Vietnamese neighbor who was a commercial fisherman and liked to drink excessively when ashore like all good seaman. Long story short an altercation broke out and this crazy sob took his plastic flare gun and put a buckshot round in it. Luckily I was out of harms way, but the gun exploded sending a pattern literally the size of a minivan (just so happened what he was shooting at). Needless to say we moved shortly after that. I can attest to the plastic guns as a one time use. Ever have the urge to stop in pinellas park, skip it. Rich On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:32 PM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >

Chamber pressure on shotshells runs from 12,000 psi to 23,000psi There is little difference between 12ga 16ga and 20 ga. Low base shells would have less pressure. I believe rather than to seek a implausible loophole in the law and have a singleshot reduced power firearm disguised as a flare pistol, a prudent mariner who chooses to protect himself and his family should arm his cruiser with a non military type high powered rifle and a slide action(pump) shotgun. Whether to declare or not declare is a personal decision. Chris H. is right about staying out of trouble--don't go to places that will put your vessel at risk. However I differ with his conclusion that there are some encounters that are unwinable. I believe that my cruiser is a poor choice to molest and serious pirates will seek a richer target. I will make it as difficult for them to get near me. I too have pointed a loaded firearm at a group of men who sought to harm me and my family and the presence of that firearm on 2 occasions caused the molesters to back away. Had they not, I would have needed the services of a experienced defense lawyer. My Best, Mike Farrell From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 4:32:56 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 6:13:22 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** IF...a flare gun could be set up to handle a shotgun round, why 12 gauge ammo? Why not 16 gauge or 20 gauge? At those ranges they would be just as effective but less dangerous to the flare gun holder. And why 3" magnum rounds? why not 2 3/4' low base rounds, again for the same reasons? Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ri… [at] yahoo.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:40:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I want one. This is a legal flare gun? Maybe a compromise between the wife and I. She wants no guns, I want a 50 cal. Rich From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 8:23:24 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** All, I have been following this thread with interest. While our only foreign waters are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense --Michael-- From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** Mike, Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. Based on their reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed off shot gun. (410 with a 2” barrel) Ymmv John From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM To: Cal boats List Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html Mike Robinson

Joe you are correct, I was going on memory, late at night, trying to type instead of sleep. Thanks for the correction. john From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe DeMers Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 9:36 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] The Judge [ was Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** Taurus [ not Ruger ] makes 'The Judge". It is legally a handgun [ and not a shotgun ] because of it's rifled barrel. Hey, I don't make the rules ! Joe D

Lots of trailer parks in Pinellas Park if I recall. They always send film crews there after storms to film the damage as the flimsy things always blew apart. Don Dutton "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: Rich Beliveau <ri… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 4:44:57 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** When I lived in pinellas park Florida I had a Vietnamese neighbor who was a commercial fisherman and liked to drink excessively when ashore like all good seaman. Long story short an altercation broke out and this crazy sob took his plastic flare gun and put a buckshot round in it. Luckily I was out of harms way, but the gun exploded sending a pattern literally the size of a minivan (just so happened what he was shooting at). Needless to say we moved shortly after that. I can attest to the plastic guns as a one time use. Ever have the urge to stop in pinellas park, skip it. Rich On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:32 PM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >

Michael, Here is the thread you are referring to ( I think) Mike > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: md… [at] yahoo.com > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:23:24 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > All, > > I have been following this thread with interest. While our only foreign waters > are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... > > > http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense > > --Michael-- > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > Mike, > > Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to > repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of > > the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. > > Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. Based on their > reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed off shot gun. > (410 with a 2” barrel) > > Ymmv > John > > From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Robinson > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM > To: Cal boats List > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > > I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with > live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter > person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" > > shotgun in the eyes of the law. > > > Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to > > result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." > > > http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html > > > > > Mike Robinson > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html This site feature more traditional weaponry suitable for a sailing vessel. After all, when was the last mostly all sail war ship built; Civil war or before? Jerry --- On Mon, 6/13/11, Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: FW: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** To: "Cal boats List" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: md… [at] yahoo.com Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 1:01 PM Michael, Here is the thread you are referring to ( I think) Mike > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: md… [at] yahoo.com > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:23:24 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > All, > > I have been following this thread with interest. While our only foreign waters > are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... > > > http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense > > --Michael-- > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > Mike, > > Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to > repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of > > the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. > > Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. Based on their > reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed off shot gun. > (410 with a 2” barrel) > > Ymmv > John > > From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Robinson > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM > To: Cal boats List > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > > I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with > live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter > person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" > > shotgun in the eyes of the law. > > > Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to > > result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." > > > http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html > > > > > Mike Robinson > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Gerald, The site you sent us to isn't the right one. It happens sometimes. Try this instead folks, http://hernironworks.com/cannons.html (Notice the missing www's) Mike M. On 6/13/2011 4:40 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html > <http://http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html> > > This site feature more traditional weaponry suitable for a sailing > vessel. After all, when was the last mostly all sail war ship built; > Civil war or before? > Jerry > > --- On *Mon, 6/13/11, Michael Robinson /<mi… [at] hotmail.com>/* > wrote: > > > From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> > Subject: FW: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > To: "Cal boats List" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Cc: md… [at] yahoo.com > Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 1:01 PM > > Michael, > Here is the thread you are referring to ( I think) > > > */Mike/* > *//* > > > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > From: md… [at] yahoo.com > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:23:24 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > > All, > > > > I have been following this thread with interest. While our only > foreign waters > > are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... > > > > > > http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense > > > > --Michael-- > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > > > > Mike, > > > > Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did > not need to > > repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. > Hopefully none of > > > > the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using > these things. > > > > Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. > Based on their > > reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed > off shot gun. > > (410 with a 2” barrel) > > > > Ymmv > > John > > > > From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > Michael Robinson > > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM > > To: Cal boats List > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > > > > > > I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with > > live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun > shop counter > > person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would > constitute a "sawed off" > > > > shotgun in the eyes of the law. > > > > > > Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using > them. "...likely to > > > > result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." > > > > > > > http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html > > > > > > > > > > Mike Robinson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

Even better- They give a discount on 10 or more! Maybe we could get a group buy! Just have to figure out how to rebalance a Cal 25 with a deck gun. Kevin On 6/13/2011 5:36 PM, mike wrote: > > Gerald, > The site you sent us to isn't the right one. It happens sometimes. Try > this instead folks, http://hernironworks.com/cannons.html (Notice the > missing www's) > Mike M. > > On 6/13/2011 4:40 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > >> http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html >> <http://http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html> >> >> This site feature more traditional weaponry suitable for a sailing >> vessel. After all, when was the last mostly all sail war ship built; >> Civil war or before? >> Jerry >> >> --- On *Mon, 6/13/11, Michael Robinson /<mi… [at] hotmail.com>/* >> wrote: >> >> >> From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> >> Subject: FW: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** >> To: "Cal boats List" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> Cc: md… [at] yahoo.com >> Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 1:01 PM >> >> Michael, >> Here is the thread you are referring to ( I think) >> >> >> */Mike/* >> *//* >> >> >> >> >> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> > From: md… [at] yahoo.com >> > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:23:24 -0800 >> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** >> > >> > All, >> > >> > I have been following this thread with interest. While our only >> foreign waters >> > are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... >> > >> > >> > http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense >> > >> > --Michael-- >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> >> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> > Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM >> > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** >> > >> > >> > Mike, >> > >> > Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did >> not need to >> > repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. >> Hopefully none of >> > >> > the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using >> these things. >> > >> > Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. >> Based on their >> > reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed >> off shot gun. >> > (410 with a 2” barrel) >> > >> > Ymmv >> > John >> > >> > From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of >> > Michael Robinson >> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM >> > To: Cal boats List >> > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** >> > >> > >> > >> > I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with >> > live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A >> gun shop counter >> > person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would >> constitute a "sawed off" >> > >> > shotgun in the eyes of the law. >> > >> > >> > Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using >> them. "...likely to >> > >> > result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Mike Robinson >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >

Kevin, No worries, mate, the 2/3 scale model is a veritibble light weight. Meanwhile I find me eer splitting funky old lung powered fog horn will drive anyone away, me mate will hold his ears and flee below decks. I don't blame imm It sounds really orrahble, like a giant pre-historic mallard duck with rabies. Aaaarrggg! Jerry --- On Mon, 6/13/11, Kevin Swart <kg… [at] earthlink.net> wrote: From: Kevin Swart <kg… [at] earthlink.net> Subject: Re: FW: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 10:31 PM Even better- They give a discount on 10 or more! Maybe we could get a group buy! Just have to figure out how to rebalance a Cal 25 with a deck gun. Kevin On 6/13/2011 5:36 PM, mike wrote: Gerald, The site you sent us to isn't the right one. It happens sometimes. Try this instead folks, http://hernironworks.com/cannons.html (Notice the missing www's) Mike M. On 6/13/2011 4:40 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html This site feature more traditional weaponry suitable for a sailing vessel. After all, when was the last mostly all sail war ship built; Civil war or before? Jerry --- On Mon, 6/13/11, Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: FW: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** To: "Cal boats List" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: md… [at] yahoo.com Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 1:01 PM Michael, Here is the thread you are referring to ( I think) Mike > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: md… [at] yahoo.com > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:23:24 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > All, > > I have been following this thread with interest. While our only foreign waters > are the Bahamas and are quite safe... take a look at this puppy... > > > http://gcaptain.com/lethal-approach-pirate-defense > > --Michael-- > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 10:46:05 PM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > Mike, > > Thanks for the link to the ATF website. I was pretty sure I did not need to > repeat any “stupid human tricks” to answer my previous post. Hopefully none of > > the inventors, or end users have joined the Darwin club using these things. > > Here’s a rhetorical question for your “gun shops salesperson”. Based on their > reply below, why is Ruger’s “the Judge” not considered a sawed off shot gun. > (410 with a 2” barrel) > > Ymmv > John > > From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Robinson > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:16 PM > To: Cal boats List > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** > > > > I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with > live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter > person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" > > shotgun in the eyes of the law. > > > Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to > > result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." > > > http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html > > > > > Mike Robinson > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats/ > > Individual Email | Traditional > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

There are models out there that can take a real load. Personally I think this is very much a cultural issue rather then a safety issue. Some comments on that that you may or may not agree with. I lost my best friend to a piracy attack last year in the Honduras. I can laugh about it now but not then. Spend a lot time analysing the event based on the stories of his daughter who survived for three days till rescue by a British cargo vessel diverted by USCG. My thanks to USCG and SPOT who coordinated the rescue even doing a flyover out of Florida.This was a Canadian registered vessel. Honduran rescue did not respond. Hence it took three days to get her off the boat. The boat was trashed while in Honduran "care" and ended on the rocks. Shit happens, there are nasty people out there. Stay safe and go where its safe. Hence my plans have changed significantly. YMMV. How it went down is not important, but I will say that he did not have a chance. Whether he had a weapon on board or not. There is simply not enough time to deal with the intruders, in this case did who not even board the vessel, and who in 99 percent of the cases out gun you. Spend about six month looking at and researching this issue, you know part of the grieving process I guess, and the conclusion I have come too from looking at far too many incidents is that there are four main issues at play here: 1. routing: do not put your vessel in an area or route where shit has happened. This data is well documented and on most marine nets and updated daily. 2. anchorage selection: choose anchorages that are known to be safe, don't travel alone, report your position at all times by one or more of several means. 3. overnight on an anchorage: prepare the boat for the evening, all the standard stuff, all common sense things. 4. language skills: learn and become fluent as much as possible the local language, in most cases this will be Spanish, It makes a big difference. My friends daughter was spared and the boat was never boarded as she in her rage scolded them in Spanish as she is fluent and used to work as an international development worker, she is fluent in five languages. Once scolded in Spanish, they were dumbfounded, left and never returned,. It took three days to rescue her. She has just complete the entrance exam and has been accepted into the Canadian Coast Guard. Play it smart...don't be a tourist, Things are not going to get better as the economies decline. Best regards. /ch On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com > wrote: > > > > > I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with > live ammunition. The ad I found said* for one time use only*. A gun shop > counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a > "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. > > > > Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. > "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." > > > > > http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html > > > *Mike Robinson* > ** > > > > > > > > > -- /ch

flare guns, machete stoppers ae fine if you come up on a single bad guy but I think it's better to not be the main target make them the main target. When cruising I carrier an AR 15, a Mossberg 500 stainless shotgun and a couple of handguns. If the country doesnt allow weapons I go elsewhere. Dont act like a victim. From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 9:32:42 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Piracy & Weapons** Flare Insert ** There are models out there that can take a real load. Personally I think this is very much a cultural issue rather then a safety issue. Some comments on that that you may or may not agree with. I lost my best friend to a piracy attack last year in the Honduras. I can laugh about it now but not then. Spend a lot time analysing the event based on the stories of his daughter who survived for three days till rescue by a British cargo vessel diverted by USCG. My thanks to USCG and SPOT who coordinated the rescue even doing a flyover out of Florida.This was a Canadian registered vessel. Honduran rescue did not respond. Hence it took three days to get her off the boat. The boat was trashed while in Honduran "care" and ended on the rocks. Shit happens, there are nasty people out there. Stay safe and go where its safe. Hence my plans have changed significantly. YMMV. How it went down is not important, but I will say that he did not have a chance. Whether he had a weapon on board or not. There is simply not enough time to deal with the intruders, in this case did who not even board the vessel, and who in 99 percent of the cases out gun you. Spend about six month looking at and researching this issue, you know part of the grieving process I guess, and the conclusion I have come too from looking at far too many incidents is that there are four main issues at play here: 1. routing: do not put your vessel in an area or route where shit has happened. This data is well documented and on most marine nets and updated daily. 2. anchorage selection: choose anchorages that are known to be safe, don't travel alone, report your position at all times by one or more of several means. 3. overnight on an anchorage: prepare the boat for the evening, all the standard stuff, all common sense things. 4. language skills: learn and become fluent as much as possible the local language, in most cases this will be Spanish, It makes a big difference. My friends daughter was spared and the boat was never boarded as she in her rage scolded them in Spanish as she is fluent and used to work as an international development worker, she is fluent in five languages. Once scolded in Spanish, they were dumbfounded, left and never returned,. It took three days to rescue her. She has just complete the entrance exam and has been accepted into the Canadian Coast Guard. Play it smart...don't be a tourist, Things are not going to get better as the economies decline. Best regards. /ch On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > >I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with >live ammunition. The ad I found saidfor one time use only. A gun shop counter >person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a "sawed off" >shotgun in the eyes of the law. > > >Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. "...likely to >result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." > > >http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html > > > > >Mike Robinson > > > > > > > > -- /ch

Wow, we just never run into these problems here in SF Bay. I think I will continue to confine my cruising to the bay. Any passing fantasy to do otherwise is now gone. Allen On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 6:32 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > > There are models out there that can take a real load. Personally I think > this is very much a cultural issue rather then a safety issue. Some comments > on that that you may or may not agree with. > > I lost my best friend to a piracy attack last year in the Honduras. I can > laugh about it now but not then. Spend a lot time analysing the event based > on the stories of his daughter who survived for three days till rescue by a > British cargo vessel diverted by USCG. My thanks to USCG and SPOT who > coordinated the rescue even doing a flyover out of Florida.This was a > Canadian registered vessel. > > Honduran rescue did not respond. Hence it took three days to get her off > the boat. The boat was trashed while in Honduran "care" and ended on the > rocks. Shit happens, there are nasty people out there. Stay safe and go > where its safe. Hence my plans have changed significantly. YMMV. > > How it went down is not important, but I will say that he did not have a > chance. Whether he had a weapon on board or not. There is simply not enough > time to deal with the intruders, in this case did who not even board the > vessel, and who in 99 percent of the cases out gun you. Spend about six > month looking at and researching this issue, you know part of the grieving > process I guess, and the conclusion I have come too from looking at far too > many incidents is that there are four main issues at play here: > > 1. routing: do not put your vessel in an area or route where shit has > happened. This data is well documented and on most marine nets and updated > daily. > > 2. anchorage selection: choose anchorages that are known to be safe, don't > travel alone, report your position at all times by one or more of several > means. > > 3. overnight on an anchorage: prepare the boat for the evening, all the > standard stuff, all common sense things. > > 4. language skills: learn and become fluent as much as possible the local > language, in most cases this will be Spanish, It makes a big difference. > > My friends daughter was spared and the boat was never boarded as she in her > rage scolded them in Spanish as she is fluent and used to work as an > international development worker, she is fluent in five languages. Once > scolded in Spanish, they were dumbfounded, left and never returned,. It took > three days to rescue her. > > She has just complete the entrance exam and has been accepted into the > Canadian Coast Guard. > > Play it smart...don't be a tourist, Things are not going to get better as > the economies decline. > > Best regards. > > /ch > > > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Michael Robinson < > mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> I researched flare gun inserts to convert flare gun for use with >> live ammunition. The ad I found said* for one time use only*. A gun shop >> counter person tells me the insert for 12 guage flare gun would constitute a >> "sawed off" shotgun in the eyes of the law. >> >> >> >> Based on the ATF test (link below) I would be fearful using them. >> "...likely to result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher." >> >> >> >> >> http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html >> >> >> *Mike Robinson* >> ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > /ch > > > >

No no no .....that was not the intend of the post. Keep those dreams alive and kicking Allen. Never concede to ugliness, chase those dreams and make the place a little better by doing so. My personal opinion is simply this, that weapons on board are ineffective. Others have a different perspective and thats fine. IHMO Its more important to choose your route carefully. Mexico to the south especially the Baja and the Sea of Cortez are well known travel destination Mazalan etc...get on the southbound list if you want and follow the stories. All posters are on the water and in transit. Consider heading north to Vancouver Island and the inside passage. A dream of a destination and trip. You can co it in a few months or a few years. The point of the discussion was intended to be a debate on what folks consider effective method of travelling safely. Some require weapons some don't. But the discussions always end up with in a pro or con debate on ballistics. The issue is more complex then that IMHO and I tried to layout what I think are prudent considerations based of what I have learned. Weapons from where I sit are a last resort method. Choose your route carefully, travel in a group if you head south, due diligence with reporting to support groups, due diligence on the radio nets to find out whats going on and leaning the language of where you are travelling too, IMHO all rate higher in priority then the choice of ballistics as its the last item on the list. You don't want to be in an area where you have to resort to that fail safe method. That was my point. When you assess where my friend was...the simple truth is he was in the wrong place. Why he stayed an extra day, I have no answer. He should not have been there that extra day as it was a known area where attacks had happened. He was forced into the lagoon due to a sever storm. But the next morning he should have gotten the heck outta there. Why he stayed another day, when the weather cleared I have no answers for. His daughter tells me they were tired, but as an ex Naval officer, who was a very competent low risk sailor who had over 7000 kmiles single handed under his belt, I don't understand his decisions that day. Best I can do with it is learn from it. But on the other hand when your time is up, its up, so you take comfort from that. He had a bad heart condition and wanted to be on the water till sixty. Perhaps its was destiny. He never saw it coming....that's the point of the story. Guns or not, it was from a distance at a few meters. Once they found out that his daughter was fluid in Spanish, they just left and did not return for three days till she was rescued. Surprises me too but am very grateful as I saw the kids grow up. She's a tough girl that one and has recovered well. Now a Coastie leaving international development behind. /ch On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Allen Edwards < al… [at] paloaltophoto.com> wrote: > > > Wow, we just never run into these problems here in SF Bay. I think I will > continue to confine my cruising to the bay. Any passing fantasy to do > otherwise is now gone. > > Allen > >