Re: [Cal_Boats] Holdimg tank

Jeff, I installed a rectangular 24 g tank under the v-berth platform of our CC 36 - bought the tank and other fittings from Maritime Sanitation in Seattle, I think a Ronco. It barely fits. I used the same setup as others have written about - head empties directly into the tank, discharge line Y-s to both a deck pump-out fitting and a hand-pump-to-seacock for overboard discharge offshore. All fittings are on top of the tank - this is very important, as otherwise you have no chance of avoiding pools of sewage in the lines, which dramatically shortens their useful lives. Often spaces and shapes force you to run lines so that sewage sits in them anyway - if possible it's best to use rigid PVC for any such places. I also have odor problems in the locker containing most of the hose (the head is a Lavac, which needs a big loop of 1.5" hose, so all of that went into the stbd locker next to the head), either hose or hand pump needs replacing, fortunately the locker tends to contain the smell. Otherwise the system has worked well for 5 years. In my opinion, 1.5 in sani-hose is the most evil material devised by man. Best of luck, Bill Symes S/V Sara E. --- On Fri, 6/17/11, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Holdimg tank To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:52 PM Jeff, Well, I just was getting ready to send this and realized that you do not have a 29 and so many of my comments are overly specific to that model. If you go to Ronco's marine tank web page you can browse the dimensions of the tanks and try and figure out which one will work for you. Ask them for a discount when you order the tank, as I believe they probably still show retail prices on their web-catalog. I suggest you build a cardboard mock-up of any tank you want to consider and test that for fit before you order. Ronco will guide you through the placement of your hose fittings. http://www.ronco-plastics.com/newRonco/installation.php I fit a 16 gallon tank from Ronco under the V-berth directly in front of the water tank without doing any modifications to the v-berth deck. It was adequate. Another Cal 29 owner, our own beloved Alfred Poor, fit a 25 gallon Ronco tank into the same space with easy modifications to the opening in the v-berth deck -- I hope I recall this properly. Alfred no longer owns the 29, but I believe he still monitors this list.My complaint was that the hoses were necessarily long and even the most expensive ones will become saturated and smell after a while. I plumbed a small hand pump mounted under the deck to port of the water tank so I could pump it out when off-shore. The pump was a source of odor in short order -- I am fanatical about head odors, so was unhappy with it. A purpose built for waste pump would have been better, but I have friends with those and they still get odorous after a while. I also plumbed a Y-valve into the discharge side hose but later decided it wasn't necessary -- when hand-pumping the waste out, the deck fitting is screwed in so why would that be a problem? ! After changing out all of the hoses a couple of times I decided to build a gravity tank that sits up behind the head. It only holds 15 gallons because I couldn't find a tank that fit the space very well. I've had some problems with that installation as well, but have figured it all out. If the waste sits in the tank very long it tends to plug up the discharge hose with enough solids that gravity is insufficient to drain it. I experimented with putting a little pressure into the tank (my inflatable hand pump just happens to fit the vent fitting on the tank) and that gets it started and out it goes. That is also very inconvenient as I won't discharge the tank unless I am well off-shore which means often rougher water and perching on the deck with the pump. A macerator discharge pump would solve this, of course, or maybe even a valve in the vent line that I could close to pressurize the tank. I would never want to put too much pressure into the tank, however, for fear of blowing a hose off into the interior of the boat. I saw that happen to a friends boat out at the Islands one nice weekend. Ended their trip abruptly. Another related issue to both of the above installations was that the brand of head that I had did not block waste seeping back into the toilet bowl, especially when the tank started getting full. I currently use an electric macerating head, which seems to prevent that from happening, but I also have noticed that many of the heads have a locking pump handle to prevent this as well. Another of my boat friends installed a large rectangular tank under his settees and added a macerator pump for discharging it off-shore. It seems to work great but I don't see enough space on the 29 to do this. So I am restless with my current system and am getting myself geared up to either install the 25 gallon tank under the V-berth with rigid plumbing back to the head s! ide of the front bulkhead and a macerator pump for discharge, or I am going to build my own epoxy tank that fits the shape of the hull and sits behind the head with either a gravity or macerator discharge option. Still thinking about this. I like the idea of the tank under the v-berth because I waste that space otherwise as it's too hard to get to. Hope these thoughts help you figure this out. Wilkie On Jun 17, 2011, at 6:58 AM, Jeff wrote: Good morning I have gotten to the point with my project Cal were I have to start thinking about a holding tank. When I purchased the boat, it did not have a holding tank - the head was connected straight to a thru hull. The rest of used water from shower, sink etc just flowed to the sump, and got pumped out when the float switch was triggered. Anyway, I'd like suggestions as far as holding tank sources and advise on size, placement and what is required to go to the tank, if some or all the drain connections. As usual, the group's help is always appreciated! Best regards Jeff '72 Cal 33

Jeff Oh yeah!! use a HEAT GUN on the 11/2" sani-hose...(we've tried boilwater 5mins in mincowave) also work gloves work off THE ROLL your tape messurments seem to be too small when installing. Heat the inside hose,these hoses are only good for two years and should be changed or will stink (another reason not to put tank in V-birth) also david and bill have great in sites ....solar fan in head area helps to remove stink...edward (helen) From: Lene Symes <ls… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 11:43:57 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Holdimg tank Jeff, I installed a rectangular 24 g tank under the v-berth platform of our CC 36 - bought the tank and other fittings from Maritime Sanitation in Seattle, I think a Ronco. It barely fits. I used the same setup as others have written about - head empties directly into the tank, discharge line Y-s to both a deck pump-out fitting and a hand-pump-to-seacock for overboard discharge offshore. All fittings are on top of the tank - this is very important, as otherwise you have no chance of avoiding pools of sewage in the lines, which dramatically shortens their useful lives. Often spaces and shapes force you to run lines so that sewage sits in them anyway - if possible it's best to use rigid PVC for any such places. I also have odor problems in the locker containing most of the hose (the head is a Lavac, which needs a big loop of 1.5" hose, so all of that went into the stbd locker next to the head), either hose or hand pump needs replacing, fortunately the locker tends to contain the smell. Otherwise the system has worked well for 5 years. In my opinion, 1.5 in sani-hose is the most evil material devised by man. Best of luck, Bill Symes S/V Sara E. --- On Fri, 6/17/11, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: >From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Holdimg tank >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:52 PM > > > > > > > >Jeff, > > >Well, I just was getting ready to send this and realized that you do not have a >29 and so many of my comments are overly specific to that model. If you go to >Ronco's marine tank web page you can browse the dimensions of the tanks and try >and figure out which one will work for you. Ask them for a discount when you >order the tank, as I believe they probably still show retail prices on their >web-catalog. I suggest you build a cardboard mock-up of any tank you want to >consider and test that for fit before you order. Ronco will guide you through >the placement of your hose fittings. > http://www.ronco-plastics.com/newRonco/installation.php > > >I fit a 16 gallon tank from Ronco under the V-berth directly in front of the >water tank without doing any modifications to the v-berth deck. It was >adequate. > > >Another Cal 29 owner, our own beloved Alfred Poor, fit a 25 gallon Ronco tank >into the same space with easy modifications to the opening in the v-berth deck >-- I hope I recall this properly. Alfred no longer owns the 29, but I believe >he still monitors this list. >My complaint was that the hoses were necessarily long and even the most >expensive ones will become saturated and smell after a while. I plumbed a small >hand pump mounted under the deck to port of the water tank so I could pump it >out when off-shore. The pump was a source of odor in short order -- I am >fanatical about head odors, so was unhappy with it. A purpose built for waste >pump would have been better, but I have friends with those and they still get >odorous after a while. I also plumbed a Y-valve into the discharge side hose >but later decided it wasn't necessary -- when hand-pumping the waste out, the >deck fitting is screwed in so why would that be a problem? > > >! After changing out all of the hoses a couple of times I decided to build a >gravity tank that sits up behind the head. It only holds 15 gallons because I >couldn't find a tank that fit the space very well. I've had some problems with >that installation as well, but have figured it all out. If the waste sits in >the tank very long it tends to plug up the discharge hose with enough solids >that gravity is insufficient to drain it. I experimented with putting a little >pressure into the tank (my inflatable hand pump just happens to fit the vent >fitting on the tank) and that gets it started and out it goes. That is also >very inconvenient as I won't discharge the tank unless I am well off-shore which >means often rougher water and perching on the deck with the pump. A macerator >discharge pump would solve this, of course, or maybe even a valve in the vent >line that I could close to pressurize the tank. I would never want to put too >much pressure into the tank, however, for fear of blowing a hose off into the >interior of the boat. I saw that happen to a friends boat out at the Islands >one nice weekend. Ended their trip abruptly. > > >Another related issue to both of the above installations was that the brand of >head that I had did not block waste seeping back into the toilet bowl, >especially when the tank started getting full. I currently use an electric >macerating head, which seems to prevent that from happening, but I also have >noticed that many of the heads have a locking pump handle to prevent this as >well. > > >Another of my boat friends installed a large rectangular tank under his settees >and added a macerator pump for discharging it off-shore. It seems to work great >but I don't see enough space on the 29 to do this. > > >So I am restless with my current system and am getting myself geared up to >either install the 25 gallon tank under the V-berth with rigid plumbing back to >the head s! ide of the front bulkhead and a macerator pump for discharge, or I >am going to build my own epoxy tank that fits the shape of the hull and sits >behind the head with either a gravity or macerator discharge option. Still >thinking about this. > > >I like the idea of the tank under the v-berth because I waste that space >otherwise as it's too hard to get to. > > >Hope these thoughts help you figure this out. > > > > >Wilkie > > > > > > > > >On Jun 17, 2011, at 6:58 AM, Jeff wrote: > > >Good morning > >I have gotten to the point with my project Cal were I have to start thinking >about a holding tank. > >When I purchased the boat, it did not have a holding tank - the head was >connected straight to a thru hull. > >The rest of used water from shower, sink etc just flowed to the sump, and got >pumped out when the float switch was triggered. > >Anyway, I'd like suggestions as far as holding tank sources and advise on size, >placement and what is required to go to the tank, if some or all the drain >connections. > >As usual, the group's help is always appreciated! > >Best regards > >Jeff > >'72 Cal 33 >

Remember that putting a gallon or two of vinegar into the holding tank at the end of the season, or every couple of months if you have a long season like California, will help a lot with the smell of a holding tank. You can buy cheap vinegar in 5 gallon jugs. Just pour it down the deck pump out fitting after flushing the tank. A lot of the bad smell is actually marine growth in the salt water, not the sewage. Mike Kennedy On Jun 17, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Lene Symes wrote: > > Jeff, > > I installed a rectangular 24 g tank under the v-berth platform of > our CC 36 - bought the tank and other fittings from Maritime > Sanitation in Seattle, I think a Ronco. It barely fits. I used the > same setup as others have written about - head empties directly into > the tank, discharge line Y-s to both a deck pump-out fitting and a > hand-pump-to-seacock for overboard discharge offshore. > > All fittings are on top of the tank - this is very important, as > otherwise you have no chance of avoiding pools of sewage in the > lines, which dramatically shortens their useful lives. Often spaces > and shapes force you to run lines so that sewage sits in them anyway > - if possible it's best to use rigid PVC for any such places. > > I also have odor problems in the locker containing most of the hose > (the head is a Lavac, which needs a big loop of 1.5" hose, so all of > that went into the stbd locker next to the head), either hose or > hand pump needs replacing, fortunately the locker tends to contain > the smell. Otherwise the system has worked well for 5 years. > > In my opinion, 1.5 in sani-hose is the most evil material devised by > man. > > Best of luck, > > Bill Symes > S/V Sara E. > > --- On Fri, 6/17/11, David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: > > From: David Wilkie Owen <dw… [at] me.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Holdimg tank > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:52 PM > > > > > > Jeff, > > Well, I just was getting ready to send this and realized that you do > not have a 29 and so many of my comments are overly specific to that > model. If you go to Ronco's marine tank web page you can browse the > dimensions of the tanks and try and figure out which one will work > for you. Ask them for a discount when you order the tank, as I > believe they probably still show retail prices on their web- > catalog. I suggest you build a cardboard mock-up of any tank you > want to consider and test that for fit before you order. Ronco will > guide you through the placement of your hose fittings. http://www.ronco-plastics.com/newRonco/installation.php > > I fit a 16 gallon tank from Ronco under the V-berth directly in > front of the water tank without doing any modifications to the v- > berth deck. It was adequate. > > Another Cal 29 owner, our own beloved Alfred Poor, fit a 25 gallon > Ronco tank into the same space with easy modifications to the > opening in the v-berth deck -- I hope I recall this properly. > Alfred no longer owns the 29, but I believe he still monitors this > list. > My complaint was that the hoses were necessarily long and even the > most expensive ones will become saturated and smell after a while. > I plumbed a small hand pump mounted under the deck to port of the > water tank so I could pump it out when off-shore. The pump was a > source of odor in short order -- I am fanatical about head odors, so > was unhappy with it. A purpose built for waste pump would have > been better, but I have friends with those and they still get > odorous after a while. I also plumbed a Y-valve into the discharge > side hose but later decided it wasn't necessary -- when hand-pumping > the waste out, the deck fitting is screwed in so why would that be a > problem? > > ! After changing out all of the hoses a couple of times I decided to > build a gravity tank that sits up behind the head. It only holds 15 > gallons because I couldn't find a tank that fit the space very > well. I've had some problems with that installation as well, but > have figured it all out. If the waste sits in the tank very long it > tends to plug up the discharge hose with enough solids that gravity > is insufficient to drain it. I experimented with putting a little > pressure into the tank (my inflatable hand pump just happens to fit > the vent fitting on the tank) and that gets it started and out it > goes. That is also very inconvenient as I won't discharge the tank > unless I am well off-shore which means often rougher water and > perching on the deck with the pump. A macerator discharge pump > would solve this, of course, or maybe even a valve in the vent line > that I could close to pressurize the tank. I would never want to > put too much pressure into the tank, however, for fear of blowing a > hose off into the interior of the boat. I saw that happen to a > friends boat out at the Islands one nice weekend. Ended their trip > abruptly. > > Another related issue to both of the above installations was that > the brand of head that I had did not block waste seeping back into > the toilet bowl, especially when the tank started getting full. I > currently use an electric macerating head, which seems to prevent > that from happening, but I also have noticed that many of the heads > have a locking pump handle to prevent this as well. > > Another of my boat friends installed a large rectangular tank under > his settees and added a macerator pump for discharging it off- > shore. It seems to work great but I don't see enough space on the > 29 to do this. > > So I am restless with my current system and am getting myself geared > up to either install the 25 gallon tank under the V-berth with rigid > plumbing back to the head s! ide of the front bulkhead and a > macerator pump for discharge, or I am going to build my own epoxy > tank that fits the shape of the hull and sits behind the head with > either a gravity or macerator discharge option. Still thinking > about this. > > I like the idea of the tank under the v-berth because I waste that > space otherwise as it's too hard to get to. > > Hope these thoughts help you figure this out. > > > Wilkie > > > > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 6:58 AM, Jeff wrote: > > > Good morning > > I have gotten to the point with my project Cal were I have to start > thinking about a holding tank. > > When I purchased the boat, it did not have a holding tank - the head > was connected straight to a thru hull. > > The rest of used water from shower, sink etc just flowed to the > sump, and got pumped out when the float switch was triggered. > > Anyway, I'd like suggestions as far as holding tank sources and > advise on size, placement and what is required to go to the tank, if > some or all the drain connections. > > As usual, the group's help is always appreciated! > > Best regards > > Jeff > > '72 Cal 33 > > > >

On 6/17/2011 4:34 PM, Michael Kennedy wrote: > Remember that putting a gallon or two of vinegar into the holding tank > at the end of the season, or every couple of months if you have a long > season like California, will help a lot with the smell of a holding > tank. You can buy cheap vinegar in 5 gallon jugs. Vinegar also serves well to clean mildew and mold off surfaces and as a general cleaning agent. I've used it in the interior on the overhead, which gets moldy. Unlike bleach, it doesn't ruin clothing. It's the best thing I've found for removing mineral build-up on the hull at season's end. I used to polish away with an abrasive cleaner/polish, thinking it was dull gelcoat. Then I tried vinegar and it just melts away. I recommended it to a guy in the boat barn where my other boat winters over and he was impressed too. Chris Campbell

Thanks to all for the feedback, I have a clear idea of were I want to go with the holding tank project! Also appreciate the photos. Best regards Jeff '72 Call 33 >