Chicago-Mac race

Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced sailors. HH

On 7/20/2011 12:42 AM, Helen Horn wrote: > Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic > Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is > very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have been > recovered. Apparently they were tethered and unable to release. Maybe we should all practice releasing our tethers in some relatively safe environment, just to get a feel for it and to make sure the release is feasible. Chris Campbell

On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > On 7/20/2011 12:42 AM, Helen Horn wrote: > >> >> Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic >> Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It >> is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not >> have been recovered. > > Apparently they were tethered and unable to release. Maybe we > should all practice releasing our tethers in some relatively safe > environment, just to get a feel for it and to make sure the release > is feasible. It still goes back to stability and a monohull that will capsize and stay that way. The photo I saw showed the boat still upside down. I agree about the safety lines but any boat in an offshore race should be self righting. Mike Kennedy > > Chris Campbell > > >

On 7/20/2011 11:54 AM, Michael Kennedy wrote: > > It still goes back to stability and a monohull that will capsize and > stay that way. The photo I saw showed the boat still upside down. I > agree about the safety lines but any boat in an offshore race should > be self righting. No dispute here. I've been saying the same thing to local sailing friends. Boats are a series of compromises. Offshore vessels must do more than just go fast--they must do it with a reasonable margin of safety for the crew. This one probably went fast but not safely. Any boat that's stable upside-down is a problem. Multihulls sailed offshore usually have some form of escape hatch, don't they, in case the boat inverts? But I also think we should attend to tethers and releases. After my first accidental inversion in my sea kayak, I read that one should practice releasing the spray skirt when upside-down. I had done it without practicing, but the point of the writer was that it's a fundamental safety procedure, and it's a good idea to try it in safe conditions to make sure you can do it. Chris Campbell

it will be interesting to read the results of the Practical Sailor tether tests in Sept. Reggie > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: cc… [at] lsnm.org > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:20:30 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > On 7/20/2011 11:54 AM, Michael Kennedy wrote: > > > > It still goes back to stability and a monohull that will capsize and > > stay that way. The photo I saw showed the boat still upside down. I > > agree about the safety lines but any boat in an offshore race should > > be self righting. > > No dispute here. I've been saying the same thing to local sailing > friends. Boats are a series of compromises. Offshore vessels must do > more than just go fast--they must do it with a reasonable margin of > safety for the crew. This one probably went fast but not safely. Any > boat that's stable upside-down is a problem. Multihulls sailed offshore > usually have some form of escape hatch, don't they, in case the boat > inverts? > > But I also think we should attend to tethers and releases. After my > first accidental inversion in my sea kayak, I read that one should > practice releasing the spray skirt when upside-down. I had done it > without practicing, but the point of the writer was that it's a > fundamental safety procedure, and it's a good idea to try it in safe > conditions to make sure you can do it. > > Chris Campbell > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

The best solution IMHO is to carry a knife and learn to open it with both your left or right hands when stressed. I have mine attached to my belt on a cord and its serrated flip open to keep it legal. Of all the ones I tested a serrated edge seems to cut the webbing and lines the best. In an emergency of any kind a solid knife and practiced usage under stressed conditions is far more effective then relying solely on the clips on the safety line. They can jam especially when you are stressed. The knife is far faster, easier and if you learn to work it with both hands, regardless if you incapacitated with one arm which can happen you are free to use your other arm and cut your self free. It is a learned skill however, and one that I practice regularly. The other technique I use when sailing along is that I attach my safety line to a 35 ft line that is tied off at the base of the boom. The boarding lander is on a trip line so one pull from the water and down she comes. If I go over I want to be thrown well free from the boat rather then get tied up in all the stuff at the end of a six foot safety line. Do the math, you will be dangling half off and half on the boat of a standard CAL. Very difficult situation to extricate yourself from alone. I run jack line down both sides of the boat and when I move out of the cockpit I'm on the jack lines, using the one on the opposite side to brace myself. Some don't like this method but it works for me. The dog is restrained on a line and harness that does not allow her out of the cockpit when underway. One less issue to be concerned about, and the main reason I carry a razor sharp knife. It cuts everyone free as may be needed. /ch On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > ** > > > On 7/20/2011 12:42 AM, Helen Horn wrote: > > > Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic > Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is very > sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have been recovered. > > > > Apparently they were tethered and unable to release. Maybe we should all > practice releasing our tethers in some relatively safe environment, just to > get a feel for it and to make sure the release is feasible. > > Chris Campbell > > >

Ive read all those reports and some are better then others. However, they can all fail, or jam, some more often others rarely. So you need a secondary or backup method. The other thing to consider is that its all good and fine to stand in your cockpit and practice releasing the clip. However when you are stressed and disorientated its a completely different exercise. This is where a razor sharp knife comes in very handy, especially if you learn to use it under stressed conditions. In this manner you always have a backup method. Most things on my boat when travelling, I try to have redundant safety systems as I tend to travel alone. So if the primary system fails for what ever reason I have a secondary. Saved me pooch who slipped off the boat three times in the winter of 2009. No fun going in to get her in 0 degree water. So a harness was build and the boat hook was pre set with hook and line that would disconnect (rubber bands) Grap the hook on the dog harness through the line over the boom attach to winch and crank her in. This was my secondary method after three physical water rescues. You tend to learn as you go along. /ch On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 12:41 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > > it will be interesting to read the results of the Practical Sailor tether > tests in Sept. > Reggie > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > From: cc… [at] lsnm.org > > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:20:30 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > > On 7/20/2011 11:54 AM, Michael Kennedy wrote: > > > > > > It still goes back to stability and a monohull that will capsize and > > > stay that way. The photo I saw showed the boat still upside down. I > > > agree about the safety lines but any boat in an offshore race should > > > be self righting. > > > > No dispute here. I've been saying the same thing to local sailing > > friends. Boats are a series of compromises. Offshore vessels must do > > more than just go fast--they must do it with a reasonable margin of > > safety for the crew. This one probably went fast but not safely. Any > > boat that's stable upside-down is a problem. Multihulls sailed offshore > > usually have some form of escape hatch, don't they, in case the boat > > inverts? > > > > But I also think we should attend to tethers and releases. After my > > first accidental inversion in my sea kayak, I read that one should > > practice releasing the spray skirt when upside-down. I had done it > > without practicing, but the point of the writer was that it's a > > fundamental safety procedure, and it's a good idea to try it in safe > > conditions to make sure you can do it. > > > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- /ch

This is not the first time I've read about fatalities caused by tethers. Just a few years back we read about one young fellow died when his father's newly purchased Newport 30 was caught by a cresting wave and flipped off San Francisco's beach area while approaching the gate after sailing up from Sourthern Cal. The other two crew members, including the father, made it safely to shore after being thrown clear.You can't easily release a carabiner while it's under tension. That's why we had "coke" bottle type releases on our parachute harnesses in the Navy. You squeeze both side and it releases, using one hand. And we had the benefit of experiancing the Dempsy dunker which is a mock up of a cockpit that hits the water in a swimming pool then flips upside down. Jerry From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:41 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] tethers it will be interesting to read the results of the Practical Sailor tether tests in Sept. Reggie > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: cc… [at] lsnm.org > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:20:30 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > On 7/20/2011 11:54 AM, Michael Kennedy wrote: > > > > It still goes back to stability and a monohull that will capsize and > > stay that way. The photo I saw showed the boat still upside down. I > > agree about the safety lines but any boat in an offshore race should > > be self righting. > > No dispute here. I've been saying the same thing to local sailing > friends. Boats are a series of compromises. Offshore vessels must do > more than just go fast--they must do it with a reasonable margin of > safety for the crew. This one probably went fast but not safely. Any > boat that's stable upside-down is a problem. Multihulls sailed offshore > usually have some form of escape hatch, don't they, in case the boat > inverts? > > But I also think we should attend to tethers and releases. After my > first accidental inversion in my sea kayak, I read that one should > practice releasing the spray skirt when upside-down. I had done it > without practicing, but the point of the writer was that it's a > fundamental safety procedure, and it's a good idea to try it in safe > conditions to make sure you can do it. > > Chris Campbell > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Mike, There is an account of the storm by the skipper of a NA40 on the Sailing Anarchy website that is almost unbelieveable. Take a look at it. David Dobbs,who retired from the Mac after 2008. --- On Wed, 7/20/11, Michael Kennedy <mi… [at] mac.com> wrote: From: Michael Kennedy <mi… [at] mac.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 10:54 AM On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > On 7/20/2011 12:42 AM, Helen Horn wrote: > >> >> Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic >> Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It >> is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not >> have been recovered. > > Apparently they were tethered and unable to release. Maybe we > should all practice releasing our tethers in some relatively safe > environment, just to get a feel for it and to make sure the release > is feasible. It still goes back to stability and a monohull that will capsize and stay that way. The photo I saw showed the boat still upside down. I agree about the safety lines but any boat in an offshore race should be self righting. Mike Kennedy > > Chris Campbell > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

The latter part of the training is most important. No one ever trains under those conditions on a sailboat, making the assumption that the gear will work. I feel really sorry for those lads as their families. The good part is there is always something positive to learn from an accident like this. /ch On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > This is not the first time I've read about fatalities caused by tethers. > Just a few years back we read about one young fellow died when his father's > newly purchased Newport 30 was caught by a cresting wave and flipped off San > Francisco's beach area while approaching the gate after sailing up from > Sourthern Cal. The other two crew members, including the father, made it > safely to shore after being thrown clear.You can't easily release a > carabiner while it's under tension. That's why we had "coke" bottle type > releases on our parachute harnesses in the Navy. You squeeze both side and > it releases, using one hand. And we had the benefit of experiancing the > Dempsy dunker which is a mock up of a cockpit that hits the water in a > swimming pool then flips upside down. > Jerry > > ------------------------------ > *From:* r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> > *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:41 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] tethers > > > it will be interesting to read the results of the Practical Sailor tether > tests in Sept. > Reggie > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > From: cc… [at] lsnm.org > > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:20:30 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > > On 7/20/2011 11:54 AM, Michael Kennedy wrote: > > > > > > It still goes back to stability and a monohull that will capsize and > > > stay that way. The photo I saw showed the boat still upside down. I > > > agree about the safety lines but any boat in an offshore race should > > > be self righting. > > > > No dispute here. I've been saying the same thing to local sailing > > friends. Boats are a series of compromises. Offshore vessels must do > > more than just go fast--they must do it with a reasonable margin of > > safety for the crew. This one probably went fast but not safely. Any > > boat that's stable upside-down is a problem. Multihulls sailed offshore > > usually have some form of escape hatch, don't they, in case the boat > > inverts? > > > > But I also think we should attend to tethers and releases. After my > > first accidental inversion in my sea kayak, I read that one should > > practice releasing the spray skirt when upside-down. I had done it > > without practicing, but the point of the writer was that it's a > > fundamental safety procedure, and it's a good idea to try it in safe > > conditions to make sure you can do it. > > > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > -- /ch

If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the Fitzgerald. From: Helen Horn &lt;he… [at] sbcglobal.net&gt; To: Cal_Boats &lt;Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&gt; Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced sailors. HH

And before that, remember, in 1679, the sinking of Le Griffon, La Salle's flagship. I think it occurred in the same general area? I could include the sinking of the Ruben James, which was also popularized in song, but I think that was from a German U boat. I doubt there were ever too many U boats in the Great Lakes, but I could be wrong on that. If I keep staring at this monitor much longer my brain will probably fry. Jerry From: "mo… [at] aol.com" <mo… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the Fitzgerald. From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced sailors. HH

Interesting, hope they weren't the ones WM was recalling last year because one end supposedly was hard to release under tension? Maybe they were unconscious. Helen From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 6:56:23 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race On 7/20/2011 12:42 AM, Helen Horn wrote: >Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their >"Lectronic Latitude". According to the article, it happened at >12:40 AM. It is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or >they might not have been recovered. > Apparently they were tethered and unable to release. Maybe we should all practice releasing our tethers in some relatively safe environment, just to get a feel for it and to make sure the release is feasible. Chris Campbell

Lets hope they were. The thing is you need to train with these things and under stressed conditions, and that is something we never do. Your reactions are completely different when the shit hits the fan then under normal conditions. Hence folks who do this for a living ie: search and rescue, military types etc, are well trained in disaster scenario's. Unfortunately most of us don't for all the wrong reasons. Its not simply a matter of gear selection rather a matter of usage of good equipment and having backup systems in place. /ch On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > Interesting, hope they weren't the ones WM was recalling last year because > one end supposedly was hard to release under tension? Maybe they were > unconscious. Helen >

By the way, a nice backup system is a knife. I would recommend one small enough that you carry it with you all the time, not just when sailing, and use it. That will imprint on your brain that it is there. I have one that cost about $1 that is small enough to fit in the small watch pocket. Used it just the other day to cut a twing line that was wrapped nicely around the jib sheet by my crew. If you have never tried to tack with you jib sheet tied to your lifeline, I don't recommend it. Allen On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:22 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > ** > > > Lets hope they were. > > The thing is you need to train with these things and under stressed > conditions, and that is something we never do. Your reactions are completely > different when the shit hits the fan then under normal conditions. Hence > folks who do this for a living ie: search and rescue, military types etc, > are well trained in disaster scenario's. Unfortunately most of us don't for > all the wrong reasons. > > Its not simply a matter of gear selection rather a matter of usage of good > equipment and having backup systems in place. > > /ch > > > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > >> >> >> Interesting, hope they weren't the ones WM was recalling last year because >> one end supposedly was hard to release under tension? Maybe they were >> unconscious. Helen >> > > >

On 7/21/2011 10:22 AM, chris123 wrote: > > > > The thing is you need to train with these things and under stressed > conditions, and that is something we never do. Your reactions are > completely different when the shit hits the fan then under normal > conditions. Hence folks who do this for a living ie: search and > rescue, military types etc, are well trained in disaster scenario's. > Unfortunately most of us don't for all the wrong reasons. > I used to get a bit grumpy when the local Coast Guard helicopter search-and-rescue guys were always out in the Bay playing. But then I saw an interview with a rescue swimmer, and the question was "how do you remember all the things you have to do?" And his response was, "we practice over and over so when we have to do it, we don't have to think at all--we just know what to do." Ever since, I have understood clearly when the helicopter is out there hovering and lifting the guys up and dropping them in. It's also made me far more tolerant of various safety and MOB drills on our local schooner. Chris Campbell

"...that you carry it with you all the time..." Allen, except when you go to the airport. Speaking of... Greetings from scenic Fort Wayne, Indiana. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:02 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race By the way, a nice backup system is a knife. I would recommend one small enough that you carry it with you all the time, not just when sailing, and use it. That will imprint on your brain that it is there. I have one that cost about $1 that is small enough to fit in the small watch pocket. Used it just the other day to cut a twing line that was wrapped nicely around the jib sheet by my crew. If you have never tried to tack with you jib sheet tied to your lifeline, I don't recommend it. Allen On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:22 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com<mailto:ch… [at] gmail.com>> wrote: Lets hope they were. The thing is you need to train with these things and under stressed conditions, and that is something we never do. Your reactions are completely different when the shit hits the fan then under normal conditions. Hence folks who do this for a living ie: search and rescue, military types etc, are well trained in disaster scenario's. Unfortunately most of us don't for all the wrong reasons. Its not simply a matter of gear selection rather a matter of usage of good equipment and having backup systems in place. /ch On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net<mailto:he… [at] sbcglobal.net>> wrote: Interesting, hope they weren't the ones WM was recalling last year because one end supposedly was hard to release under tension? Maybe they were unconscious. Helen

Or marine world, a concert, a ball game, you also have to remember to toss it in the glove compartment or ashtray, checked bag, or even though it's cheap, it will be theirs, and you will be a person of interest for a while. We had one of those wm rigging knives with the folding marlin spike after we flew back from sailing in Mexico. The action was in Phoenix. A bit stressful when they all started looking at it and playing with it and "what would you use this for? " Rigging is not a word too well understood in the desert. Helen From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 12:02:32 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tethers, Knives... was Chicago-Mac race "...that you carry it with you all the time..." Allen, except when you go to the airport. Speaking of... Greetings from scenic Fort Wayne, Indiana. Cheers Charlie > > >> >

On 7/21/2011 3:02 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > "...that you carry it with you all the time..." > Allen, except when you go to the airport. > Speaking of... Greetings from scenic Fort Wayne, Indiana. That's almost exactly 100 mi. from Lake Michigan. You ought to make a detour and go sailing while you're that close. Chris Campbell >

Some years ago I would fly Western Air to John Wayne airport. I would carry my bag of tools and a German para gravity knife. I joined the aircraft wearing a H. Lloyd float jacket with my then yacht name monogramed upon it. Knife in pocket, sharp too! When the aircrew looked at my tools( enough to dismantle an aircraft or repair a yacht constructed of wood in 1908 for service on a Scottish lake) they would do a basic WTF!. I then handed a business card--- Vanguard Volkswagen Repair-- I am going to a sailboat race, these are my tools! I was never refused. Simpler times. God bless this mess. My Best, Mike Farrell SC 27 Yellow Jack #57313 --- On Thu, 7/21/11, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: From: Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tethers, Knives... was Chicago-Mac race To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 12:02 PM "...that you carry it with you all the time..." Allen, except when you go to the airport. Speaking of... Greetings from scenic Fort Wayne, Indiana. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:02 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race By the way, a nice backup system is a knife. I would recommend one small enough that you carry it with you all the time, not just when sailing, and use it. That will imprint on your brain that it is there. I have one that cost about $1 that is small enough to fit in the small watch pocket. Used it just the other day to cut a twing line that was wrapped nicely around the jib sheet by my crew. If you have never tried to tack with you jib sheet tied to your lifeline, I don't recommend it. Allen On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:22 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Lets hope they were. The thing is you need to train with these things and under stressed conditions, and that is something we never do. Your reactions are completely different when the shit hits the fan then under normal conditions. Hence folks who do this for a living ie: search and rescue, military types etc, are well trained in disaster scenario's. Unfortunately most of us don't for all the wrong reasons. Its not simply a matter of gear selection rather a matter of usage of good equipment and having backup systems in place. /ch On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: Interesting, hope they weren't the ones WM was recalling last year because one end supposedly was hard to release under tension? Maybe they were unconscious. Helen

Actually there was/is one, The U505, captured by a USN boarding party in the Atlantic off Africa in WWII. After the war it was brought to Chicago via the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes, portaged across Lake Shore Drive and installed at the Museum of Science and Industry. It was one of the most popular exhibits for years, but the weather was taking it's toll, so the Museum decided to bury it. They dug a huge hole, made a new underground gallery and lowered the sub into it. They also restored the sub to near real conditions inside and out. It remains one of the most popular exhibits. If you've ever read "Shadow Divers" you know that the divers visited the U505 to understand the layout of that class of sub. I have been on it and am always amazed at how fragile and small inside those WWII boats were. They were truly Iron men on both sides. David Dobbs, who is not claustrophobic --- On Thu, 7/21/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 1:52 AM And before that, remember, in 1679, the sinking of Le Griffon, La Salle's flagship. I think it occurred in the same general area? I could include the sinking of the Ruben James, which was also popularized in song, but I think that was from a German U boat. I doubt there were ever too many U boats in the Great Lakes, but I could be wrong on that. If I keep staring at this monitor much longer my brain will probably fry. Jerry From: "mo… [at] aol.com" <mo… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the Fitzgerald. From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced sailors. HH

In San Francisco Bay, the Pompanito submarine is available for tours. I took my cub scout pack and my boy scout troop for overnights on that boat. As Cubmaster I was to stay in the masters cabin, I got such a feeling of the former occupants of that space I could not stay there in rest. I asked my son Evan Michael if he wished to sleep in the masters bunk and he said "OK Dad" Pompanito has a very rich history! My Best, Mike Farrell SC 27 Yellow Jack #57313 --- On Thu, 7/21/11, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race,Uboats-Jerry To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 3:22 PM Actually there was/is one, The U505, captured by a USN boarding party in the Atlantic off Africa in WWII. After the war it was brought to Chicago via the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes, portaged across Lake Shore Drive and installed at the Museum of Science and Industry. It was one of the most popular exhibits for years, but the weather was taking it's toll, so the Museum decided to bury it. They dug a huge hole, made a new underground gallery and lowered the sub into it. They also restored the sub to near real conditions inside and out. It remains one of the most popular exhibits. If you've ever read "Shadow Divers" you know that the divers visited the U505 to understand the layout of that class of sub. I have been on it and am always amazed at how fragile and small inside those WWII boats were. They were truly Iron men on both sides. David Dobbs, who is not claustrophobic --- On Thu, 7/21/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 1:52 AM And before that, remember, in 1679, the sinking of Le Griffon, La Salle's flagship. I think it occurred in the same general area? I could include the sinking of the Ruben James, which was also popularized in song, but I think that was from a German U boat. I doubt there were ever too many U boats in the Great Lakes, but I could be wrong on that. If I keep staring at this monitor much longer my brain will probably fry. Jerry From: "mo… [at] aol.com" <mo… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the Fitzgerald. From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced sailors. HH

On Jul 21, 2011, at 3:22 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > Actually there was/is one, The U505, captured by a USN boarding > party in the Atlantic off Africa in WWII. After the war it was > brought to Chicago via the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes, > portaged across Lake Shore Drive and installed at the Museum of > Science and Industry. I remember when they brought it across the Drive. I've been in it many times but not in recent years and didn't know the latest. Mike Kennedy > It was one of the most popular exhibits for years, but the weather > was taking it's toll, so the Museum decided to bury it. They dug a > huge hole, made a new underground gallery and lowered the sub into > it. They also restored the sub to near real conditions inside and > out. It remains one of the most popular exhibits. If you've ever > read "Shadow Divers" you know that the divers visited the U505 to > understand the layout of that class of sub. I have been on it and > am always amazed at how fragile and small inside those WWII boats > were. They were truly Iron men on both sides. > David Dobbs, who is not claustrophobic > > > --- On Thu, 7/21/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 1:52 AM > > > And before that, remember, in 1679, the sinking of Le Griffon, La > Salle's flagship. I think it occurred in the same general area? > I could include the sinking of the Ruben James, which was also > popularized in song, but I think that was from a German U boat. I > doubt there were ever too many U boats in the Great Lakes, but I > could be wrong on that. > > If I keep staring at this monitor much longer my brain will > probably fry. > Jerry > > From: "mo… [at] aol.com" <mo… [at] aol.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:38 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how > a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and > close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. > The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the > Fitzgerald. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic > Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is > very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have > been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, > a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced > sailors. HH > > > >

If you google U 505 youtube,you'll find photos of the capture and towing of U 505, the transport of the sub to its resting place, and the subterranean display; amazing stuff. Better to be there than lurking below the surface of the Lakes, one less thing to worry about. Leaves our minds to be free to worry about more important things, like sudden storms and sea..er..lake serpents. Jerry From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race,Uboats-Jerry Actually there was/is one, The U505, captured by a USN boarding party in the Atlantic off Africa in WWII. After the war it was brought to Chicago via the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes, portaged across Lake Shore Drive and installed at the Museum of Science and Industry. It was one of the most popular exhibits for years, but the weather was taking it's toll, so the Museum decided to bury it. They dug a huge hole, made a new underground gallery and lowered the sub into it. They also restored the sub to near real conditions inside and out. It remains one of the most popular exhibits. If you've ever read "Shadow Divers" you know that the divers visited the U505 to understand the layout of that class of sub. I have been on it and am always amazed at how fragile and small inside those WWII boats were. They were truly Iron men on both sides. David Dobbs, who is not claustrophobic --- On Thu, 7/21/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race >To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 1:52 AM > > > >And before that, remember, in 1679, the sinking of Le Griffon, La Salle's flagship. I think it occurred in the same general area? >I could include the sinking of the Ruben James, which was also popularized in song, but I think that was from a German U boat. I doubt there were ever too many U boats in the Great Lakes, but I could be wrong on that. > > If I keep staring at this monitor much longer my brain will probably fry. >Jerry > > > > >________________________________ > From: "mo… [at] aol.com" <mo… [at] aol.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:38 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > >If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the Fitzgerald. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > >Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced sailors. HH > > >

There are several German U-boats in the great lakes. We took them as prize vessels after WWII. The US NAVY sailed them for several years and finally scuttled them in the great lakes. They are still listed as US Navy property but I have seen them listed on at least one dive chart. U-505 is big tourist draw for the musem, of course they charge an arm and leg to tour the interior. You can even have your picture taken with it as the back drop. Intersting thing is the purifier on board was made in Germany in the early in the 1940s. but we use the exact same model (4 of them) on our nuclear carriers. and teach our sailors to operate them at Great lakes Naval training center. The one at Navy base are from 1939-1942. I know because I use to maintain them and teach that part of the course of instructionbefore I retired in 2009 From: Michael Kennedy <mi… [at] mac.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 6:08:45 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race,Uboats-Jerry On Jul 21, 2011, at 3:22 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > Actually there was/is one, The U505, captured by a USN boarding > party in the Atlantic off Africa in WWII. After the war it was > brought to Chicago via the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes, > portaged across Lake Shore Drive and installed at the Museum of > Science and Industry. I remember when they brought it across the Drive. I've been in it many times but not in recent years and didn't know the latest. Mike Kennedy > It was one of the most popular exhibits for years, but the weather > was taking it's toll, so the Museum decided to bury it. They dug a > huge hole, made a new underground gallery and lowered the sub into > it. They also restored the sub to near real conditions inside and > out. It remains one of the most popular exhibits. If you've ever > read "Shadow Divers" you know that the divers visited the U505 to > understand the layout of that class of sub. I have been on it and > am always amazed at how fragile and small inside those WWII boats > were. They were truly Iron men on both sides. > David Dobbs, who is not claustrophobic > > > --- On Thu, 7/21/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 1:52 AM > > > And before that, remember, in 1679, the sinking of Le Griffon, La > Salle's flagship. I think it occurred in the same general area? > I could include the sinking of the Ruben James, which was also > popularized in song, but I think that was from a German U boat. I > doubt there were ever too many U boats in the Great Lakes, but I > could be wrong on that. > > If I keep staring at this monitor much longer my brain will > probably fry. > Jerry > > From: "mo… [at] aol.com" <mo… [at] aol.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:38 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how > a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and > close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. > The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the > Fitzgerald. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic > Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is > very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have > been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, > a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced > sailors. HH > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On 7/21/2011 6:22 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > Actually there was/is one, The U505, captured by a USN boarding party > in the Atlantic off Africa in WWII. After the war it was brought to > Chicago via the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes, portaged > across Lake Shore Drive and installed at the Museum of Science and > Industry. It was one of the most popular exhibits for years, but the > weather was taking it's toll, so the Museum decided to bury it. They > dug a huge hole, made a new underground gallery and lowered the sub > into it. They also restored the sub to near real conditions inside > and out. > There's an American WW II sub at the Wisconsin Maritime Museum at Manitowoc. Read about it here: > http://www.wisconsinmaritime.org/index.php The USS Cobia has been restored to original operating condition, including its diesels and the tube electronics. It's worth a visit. The German U-boat in Chicago was always a treat when I was a kid (a very long time ago). Chris Campbell >

Or visiting clients in the financial district in Manhattan. Many of those buildings have included metal detectors in their security regimen. From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 3:02 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tethers, Knives... was Chicago-Mac race "...that you carry it with you all the time..." Allen, except when you go to the airport. Speaking of... Greetings from scenic Fort Wayne, Indiana. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:02 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race By the way, a nice backup system is a knife. I would recommend one small enough that you carry it with you all the time, not just when sailing, and use it. That will imprint on your brain that it is there. I have one that cost about $1 that is small enough to fit in the small watch pocket. Used it just the other day to cut a twing line that was wrapped nicely around the jib sheet by my crew. If you have never tried to tack with you jib sheet tied to your lifeline, I don't recommend it. Allen On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:22 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > >Lets hope they were. > >The thing is you need to train with these things and under stressed conditions, and that is something we never do. Your reactions are completely different when the shit hits the fan then under normal conditions. Hence folks who do this for a living ie: search and rescue, military types etc, are well trained in disaster scenario's. Unfortunately most of us don't for all the wrong reasons. > >Its not simply a matter of gear selection rather a matter of usage of good equipment and having backup systems in place. > >/ch > > > > >On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > >> >> >>Interesting, hope they weren't the ones WM was recalling last year because one end supposedly was hard to release under tension? Maybe they were unconscious. Helen >> >

James, Did you ever sail out of the harbor at Great Lakes? I had friends who kept a boat there for a few seasons. Used to sail the Cutlass Race from Chicago to Great Lakes, nice party on Saturday night! David Dobbs, CAL29 411 --- On Thu, 7/21/11, James Pollock <jp… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: James Pollock <jp… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race,Uboats-Jerry To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 10:25 PM There are several German U-boats in the great lakes. We took them as prize vessels after WWII. The US NAVY sailed them for several years and finally scuttled them in the great lakes. They are still listed as US Navy property but I have seen them listed on at least one dive chart. U-505 is big tourist draw for the musem, of course they charge an arm and leg to tour the interior. You can even have your picture taken with it as the back drop. Intersting thing is the purifier on board was made in Germany in the early in the 1940s. but we use the exact same model (4 of them) on our nuclear carriers. and teach our sailors to operate them at Great lakes Naval training center. The one at Navy base are from 1939-1942. I know because I use to maintain them and teach that part of the course of instructionbefore I retired in 2009 From: Michael Kennedy <mi… [at] mac.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 6:08:45 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race,Uboats-Jerry On Jul 21, 2011, at 3:22 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > Actually there was/is one, The U505, captured by a USN boarding > party in the Atlantic off Africa in WWII. After the war it was > brought to Chicago via the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes, > portaged across Lake Shore Drive and installed at the Museum of > Science and Industry. I remember when they brought it across the Drive. I've been in it many times but not in recent years and didn't know the latest. Mike Kennedy > It was one of the most popular exhibits for years, but the weather > was taking it's toll, so the Museum decided to bury it. They dug a > huge hole, made a new underground gallery and lowered the sub into > it. They also restored the sub to near real conditions inside and > out. It remains one of the most popular exhibits. If you've ever > read "Shadow Divers" you know that the divers visited the U505 to > understand the layout of that class of sub. I have been on it and > am always amazed at how fragile and small inside those WWII boats > were. They were truly Iron men on both sides. > David Dobbs, who is not claustrophobic > > > --- On Thu, 7/21/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 1:52 AM > > > And before that, remember, in 1679, the sinking of Le Griffon, La > Salle's flagship. I think it occurred in the same general area? > I could include the sinking of the Ruben James, which was also > popularized in song, but I think that was from a German U boat. I > doubt there were ever too many U boats in the Great Lakes, but I > could be wrong on that. > > If I keep staring at this monitor much longer my brain will > probably fry. > Jerry > > From: "mo… [at] aol.com" <mo… [at] aol.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:38 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how > a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and > close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. > The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the > Fitzgerald. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race > > > Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic > Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is > very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have > been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, > a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced > sailors. HH > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Yes. I sailed out of Navy Station Great lakes during the 2009 boating season. The storm Sep30 / Oct 1 09 started out of the west and during the night switched to the SW driving large waves into the basin there, Reported to be 14-16 feet in the basin which broke the pier I was moored on and drove my boat a Pearson Triton into a bayliner in the next slip. Paid to have insurance; they repaired and repaint the bayliner but wrote the triton off as a loss. The 34 ft Tiaria they used for charters had rail damage and lower hull damage from getting washed on to the concrete main pier. Funny part was I had been asking the harbor master when are they going to start pulling boats for two or three weeks. With no dates set. Now I have a trialerable 20 foott sailboat and launch out of winthrop harbor. From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, July 22, 2011 7:54:30 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Great Lakes,(James P.) James, Did you ever sail out of the harbor at Great Lakes? I had friends who kept a boat there for a few seasons. Used to sail the Cutlass Race from Chicago to Great Lakes, nice party on Saturday night! David Dobbs, CAL29 411 --- On Thu, 7/21/11, James Pollock <jp… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: James Pollock <jp… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race,Uboats-Jerry >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 10:25 PM > > > >There are several German U-boats in the great lakes. We took them as prize >vessels after WWII. The US NAVY sailed them for several years and finally >scuttled them in the great lakes. They are still listed as US Navy property but >I have seen them listed on at least one dive chart. >U-505 is big tourist draw for the musem, of course they charge an arm and leg to >tour the interior. You can even have your picture taken with it as the back >drop. Intersting thing is the purifier on board was made in Germany in the >early in the 1940s. but we use the exact same model (4 of them) on our nuclear >carriers. and teach our sailors to operate them at Great lakes Naval training >center. The one at Navy base are from 1939-1942. I know because I use to >maintain them and teach that part of the course of instructionbefore I retired >in 2009 > > > > > > From: Michael Kennedy <mi… [at] mac.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 6:08:45 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race,Uboats-Jerry > > >On Jul 21, 2011, at 3:22 PM, david dobbs wrote: > >> >> Actually there was/is one, The U505, captured by a USN boarding >> party in the Atlantic off Africa in WWII. After the war it was >> brought to Chicago via the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes, >> portaged across Lake Shore Drive and installed at the Museum of >> Science and Industry. > >I remember when they brought it across the Drive. I've been in it many >times but not in recent years and didn't know the latest. > >Mike Kennedy > > >> It was one of the most popular exhibits for years, but the weather >> was taking it's toll, so the Museum decided to bury it. They dug a >> huge hole, made a new underground gallery and lowered the sub into >> it. They also restored the sub to near real conditions inside and >> out. It remains one of the most popular exhibits. If you've ever >> read "Shadow Divers" you know that the divers visited the U505 to >> understand the layout of that class of sub. I have been on it and >> am always amazed at how fragile and small inside those WWII boats >> were. They were truly Iron men on both sides. >> David Dobbs, who is not claustrophobic >> >> >> --- On Thu, 7/21/11, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race >> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 1:52 AM >> >> >> And before that, remember, in 1679, the sinking of Le Griffon, La >> Salle's flagship. I think it occurred in the same general area? >> I could include the sinking of the Ruben James, which was also >> popularized in song, but I think that was from a German U boat. I >> doubt there were ever too many U boats in the Great Lakes, but I >> could be wrong on that. >> >> If I keep staring at this monitor much longer my brain will >> probably fry. >> Jerry >> >> From: "mo… [at] aol.com" <mo… [at] aol.com> >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race >> >> >> If you have never sailed the Great Lakes you may not understand how >> a 6ft. wave can be so distructive but when they are breaking and >> close together its a hairey experience and one you wont soon forget. >> The lakes have taken down their share of large ships remember the >> Fitzgerald. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> >> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42 am >> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chicago-Mac race >> >> >> Latitude 38 had a photo and a write-up about it in their "Lectronic >> Latitude". According to the article, it happened at 12:40 AM. It is >> very sad, they must have been wearing PFDs or they might not have >> been recovered. The wing shape, 4 to 6 foot waves, a lift by a wave, >> a gust of wind, could have tossed it easily. They were experienced >> sailors. HH >> >> >> >> > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >