Need Staysail Education

Our boat came with a staysail that we have never used but have been told it is effective for another knot of boat speed in medium to light air when sailing 130 to 150 deg apparent with the spinnaker up. Our boat is partially cutter rigged. We have the staysail halyard, a substantially braced u-bolt just aft of the anchor locker to attach it to but no running backstay. This u-bolt is also where we attach the downhaul for the spinnaker. Here is the odd part . . . to me at least. The sail is cut long enough to be flown at the masthead using the jib halyard but also has a secondary tack and that shortens the luff by 9' enabling it to be flown from the staysail halyard (I think . . . I didn't actually hoist it from that halyard but it looks about right). It has "reef" ties along what would be the new foot if flown from the staysail halyard. What determines when you'd fly it from the jib tack as opposed to the staysail tack? Just wind strength? Do you only use this sail with a spinnaker or maybe beam reaching as well. I assume beam reaching would be with a genoa not a spinnaker and using the shortened staysail on the staysail halyard. For what its worth, the sail is VERY light and appears to be made of 1-3/4 oz spinnaker material. Any and all comments welcome. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to carry this sail with me for the Governors Cup which is a 70 mile overnight race down the Bay. As of now it looks as if it will be mostly upwind but that could change as the race is this Fri/Sat. Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. _www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com_ (http://www.docksidemobilemarineservice.com/) 443-614-4070

Paul, I always use my staysail, it is my biggest asset. Yes it flies from 80 to 130 and is good from 11 to 18 knots of wind on a bean reach, it is also a good wind seeker. I have gotten myself out of trouble more the once with it. I just finished the transpac and the one thing the owner refused to purchase was a staysail, either the tallboy or working staysail. Our first 5 days we beam reached and it would of been nice. The other thing about it is, our older boats only have a genoa or jib halyard, with a off set spin halyard, it comes handy when changing sails. You would raise a tallboy to block the wind so you could drop a head sail behind something and then raise the new sail. We use mine a lot. I love it. Randy Cal 2-29 Out Patient Channel Islands Ca From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 7:39 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Need Staysail Education Our boat came with a staysail that we have never used but have been told it is effective for another knot of boat speed in medium to light air when sailing 130 to 150 deg apparent with the spinnaker up. Our boat is partially cutter rigged. We have the staysail halyard, a substantially braced u-bolt just aft of the anchor locker to attach it to but no running backstay. This u-bolt is also where we attach the downhaul for the spinnaker. Here is the odd part . . . to me at least. The sail is cut long enough to be flown at the masthead using the jib halyard but also has a secondary tack and that shortens the luff by 9' enabling it to be flown from the staysail halyard (I think . . . I didn't actually hoist it from that halyard but it looks about right). It has "reef" ties along what would be the new foot if flown from the staysail halyard. What determines when you'd fly it from the jib tack as opposed to the staysail tack? Just wind strength? Do you only use this sail with a spinnaker or maybe beam reaching as well. I assume beam reaching would be with a genoa not a spinnaker and using the shortened staysail on the staysail halyard. For what its worth, the sail is VERY light and appears to be made of 1-3/4 oz spinnaker material. Any and all comments welcome. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to carry this sail with me for the Governors Cup which is a 70 mile overnight race down the Bay. As of now it looks as if it will be mostly upwind but that could change as the race is this Fri/Sat. Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com 443-614-4070

Randy, I'd love to see how you have it rigged. I have thought about adding one... Wilkie On Aug 1, 2011, at 10:23 PM, Randy Alcorn wrote: Paul, I always use my staysail, it is my biggest asset. Yes it flies from 80 to 130 and is good from 11 to 18 knots of wind on a bean reach, it is also a good wind seeker. I have gotten myself out of trouble more the once with it. I just finished the transpac and the one thing the owner refused to purchase was a staysail, either the tallboy or working staysail. Our first 5 days we beam reached and it would of been nice. The other thing about it is, our older boats only have a genoa or jib halyard, with a off set spin halyard, it comes handy when changing sails. You would raise a tallboy to block the wind so you could drop a head sail behind something and then raise the new sail. We use mine a lot. I love it. Randy Cal 2-29 Out Patient Channel Islands Ca From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 7:39 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Need Staysail Education Our boat came with a staysail that we have never used but have been told it is effective for another knot of boat speed in medium to light air when sailing 130 to 150 deg apparent with the spinnaker up. Our boat is partially cutter rigged. We have the staysail halyard, a substantially braced u-bolt just aft of the anchor locker to attach it to but no running backstay. This u-bolt is also where we attach the downhaul for the spinnaker. Here is the odd part . . . to me at least. The sail is cut long enough to be flown at the masthead using the jib halyard but also has a secondary tack and that shortens the luff by 9' enabling it to be flown from the staysail halyard (I think . . . I didn't actually hoist it from that halyard but it looks about right). It has "reef" ties along what would be the new foot if flown from the staysail halyard. What determines when you'd fly it from the jib tack as opposed to the staysail tack? Just wind strength? Do you only use this sail with a spinnaker or maybe beam reaching as well. I assume beam reaching would be with a genoa not a spinnaker and using the shortened staysail on the staysail halyard. For what its worth, the sail is VERY light and appears to be made of 1-3/4 oz spinnaker material. Any and all comments welcome. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to carry this sail with me for the Governors Cup which is a 70 mile overnight race down the Bay. As of now it looks as if it will be mostly upwind but that could change as the race is this Fri/Sat. Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com 443-614-4070

When I sailed my Pilot 35 She came with 2 Bruce Banks spinnakers and a Banks spinnaker staysail made with a rope luff of light 1.5oz spinnaker cloth, a masthead rig with no staysail stay or halyard. My SS was cut long on the foot and short on the hoist as it was to set in the space under the spinnaker and a little higher. I can't tell you if it gave "Another Knot" but it did help. I set it from a jibhalyard and tacked it with it's rope pennant about 1/4 back from the bow . I could sail above a beam reach with the spinnaker pole on the forestay in lite air but then the SS stole air from the spinnaker. I think 125 to 165 depending on the cut. It sounds to me the sailmaker tried to do a lot with 1 sail. I would at times move the tack forward to the bow. Try it to see how it sets best, it'll tell you. Good luck this weekend. Singlehanding Yellow Jack in the SSS Half Moon Bay race this weekend. My Best, Mike Farrell From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 7:39 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Need Staysail Education Our boat came with a staysail that we have never used but have been told it is effective for another knot of boat speed in medium to light air when sailing 130 to 150 deg apparent with the spinnaker up. Our boat is partially cutter rigged. We have the staysail halyard, a substantially braced u-bolt just aft of the anchor locker to attach it to but no running backstay. This u-bolt is also where we attach the downhaul for the spinnaker. Here is the odd part . . . to me at least. The sail is cut long enough to be flown at the masthead using the jib halyard but also has a secondary tack and that shortens the luff by 9' enabling it to be flown from the staysail halyard (I think . . . I didn't actually hoist it from that halyard but it looks about right). It has "reef" ties along what would be the new foot if flown from the staysail halyard. What determines when you'd fly it from the jib tack as opposed to the staysail tack? Just wind strength? Do you only use this sail with a spinnaker or maybe beam reaching as well. I assume beam reaching would be with a genoa not a spinnaker and using the shortened staysail on the staysail halyard. For what its worth, the sail is VERY light and appears to be made of 1-3/4 oz spinnaker material. Any and all comments welcome. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to carry this sail with me for the Governors Cup which is a 70 mile overnight race down the Bay. As of now it looks as if it will be mostly upwind but that could change as the race is this Fri/Sat. Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com 443-614-4070

Wilkie, Let me know when you are in the neighbor hood. &nbsp;There are some short Sunday races coming up?&nbsp; I tack it to where my foreguy is attached as a staysail and to the bow as a wind seeker.&nbsp; Randy -- Sent from my Palm Pixi On Aug 1, 2011 23:05, David Wilkie Owen &lt;dw… [at] me.com&gt; wrote: &nbsp; Randy, I'd love to see how you have it rigged. &nbsp;I have thought about adding one... Wilkie On Aug 1, 2011, at 10:23 PM, Randy Alcorn wrote: &nbsp; Paul,&nbsp;I always use my staysail, it is my biggest asset. Yes it flies from 80 to 130 and is good from 11 to 18 knots of wind on a bean reach, it is also a good&nbsp;wind seeker. I have gotten myself out of trouble more the once with it.&nbsp;I just finished the transpac and the one thing the owner refused to purchase was a staysail, either the tallboy or working staysail. Our first 5 days we beam reached and it would of been nice.&nbsp;The other thing about it is, our older boats only have a genoa or jib halyard, with a off set spin halyard, it&nbsp;comes &nbsp;handy when changing sails. You would raise a tallboy to block the wind so you could drop a head sail behind something and then raise the new sail.&nbsp;We use mine a lot. I love it.&nbsp;RandyCal 2-29Out PatientChannel Islands Ca From: "pw… [at] aol.com" &lt;pw… [at] aol.com&gt; To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 7:39 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Need Staysail Education &nbsp; Our boat came with a staysail that we have never used but have been told it is effective for another knot of boat speed&nbsp;in medium to light air when sailing 130 to 150 deg apparent with the spinnaker up. &nbsp; Our boat is partially cutter rigged.&nbsp; We have&nbsp;the staysail halyard, a substantially braced&nbsp;u-bolt just aft of the anchor locker to attach it to but no running backstay.&nbsp; This u-bolt is also where we attach the downhaul for the spinnaker. &nbsp; Here is the odd part . . . to me at least.&nbsp; The sail is cut long enough to be flown at the masthead using the jib halyard but also has a secondary tack and that shortens the luff by 9' enabling it to be flown from the staysail halyard&nbsp; (I think . . . I didn't actually hoist it from that halyard but it looks about right).&nbsp; It has "reef" ties along what would be the new foot if flown from the staysail halyard. &nbsp; What determines when you'd fly it from the jib tack as opposed to the staysail tack?&nbsp; Just wind strength?&nbsp; Do you only use this sail with a spinnaker or maybe beam reaching as well.&nbsp; I assume beam reaching would be with a genoa not a spinnaker and using the shortened staysail on the staysail halyard. &nbsp; For what its worth, the sail is VERY light and appears to be made of 1-3/4 oz spinnaker material. &nbsp; Any and all comments welcome.&nbsp; I'm trying to decide if its worth it to carry this sail with me for the Governors Cup which is a 70 mile overnight race down the Bay.&nbsp; As of now it looks as if it will be mostly upwind but that could change as the race is this Fri/Sat. &nbsp; &nbsp; Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service &amp; Fuel Polishing Inc. www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com 443-614-4070

I would like to see how it's rigged as well...would love to have this option available on my 2-29. James --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, David Wilkie Owen <dwilkieo@...> wrote: > > > Randy, > > I'd love to see how you have it rigged. I have thought about adding one... > > Wilkie > > > On Aug 1, 2011, at 10:23 PM, Randy Alcorn wrote: > > > Paul, > > I always use my staysail, it is my biggest asset. Yes it flies from 80 to 130 and is good from 11 to 18 knots of wind on a bean reach, it is also a good wind seeker. I have gotten myself out of trouble more the once with it. > > I just finished the transpac and the one thing the owner refused to purchase was a staysail, either the tallboy or working staysail. Our first 5 days we beam reached and it would of been nice. > > The other thing about it is, our older boats only have a genoa or jib halyard, with a off set spin halyard, it comes handy when changing sails. You would raise a tallboy to block the wind so you could drop a head sail behind something and then raise the new sail. > > We use mine a lot. I love it. > > Randy > Cal 2-29 > Out Patient > Channel Islands Ca > > From: "pwestla@..." <pwestla@...> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 7:39 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Need Staysail Education > > > Our boat came with a staysail that we have never used but have been told it is effective for another knot of boat speed in medium to light air when sailing 130 to 150 deg apparent with the spinnaker up. > > Our boat is partially cutter rigged. We have the staysail halyard, a substantially braced u-bolt just aft of the anchor locker to attach it to but no running backstay. This u-bolt is also where we attach the downhaul for the spinnaker. > > Here is the odd part . . . to me at least. The sail is cut long enough to be flown at the masthead using the jib halyard but also has a secondary tack and that shortens the luff by 9' enabling it to be flown from the staysail halyard (I think . . . I didn't actually hoist it from that halyard but it looks about right). It has "reef" ties along what would be the new foot if flown from the staysail halyard. > > What determines when you'd fly it from the jib tack as opposed to the staysail tack? Just wind strength? Do you only use this sail with a spinnaker or maybe beam reaching as well. I assume beam reaching would be with a genoa not a spinnaker and using the shortened staysail on the staysail halyard. > > For what its worth, the sail is VERY light and appears to be made of 1-3/4 oz spinnaker material. > > Any and all comments welcome. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to carry this sail with me for the Governors Cup which is a 70 mile overnight race down the Bay. As of now it looks as if it will be mostly upwind but that could change as the race is this Fri/Sat. > > > Paul West > Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. > www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com > 443-614-4070 >

This weekend is the Wes Goleman Memorial. We take Anacapa Island to starboard. Once we round the island we should be on a reach home. Weather permitting. I can take pictures and post. Randy Out Patient Cal 2-29 Channel Islands Ca -- Sent from my Palm Pixi On Aug 2, 2011 9:21, James &lt;ja… [at] mac.com&gt; wrote: &nbsp; I would like to see how it's rigged as well...would love to have this option available on my 2-29. James --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, David Wilkie Owen &lt;dwilkieo@...&gt; wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; Randy, &gt; &gt; I'd love to see how you have it rigged. I have thought about adding one... &gt; &gt; Wilkie &gt; &gt; &gt; On Aug 1, 2011, at 10:23 PM, Randy Alcorn wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; Paul, &gt; &gt; I always use my staysail, it is my biggest asset. Yes it flies from 80 to 130 and is good from 11 to 18 knots of wind on a bean reach, it is also a good wind seeker. I have gotten myself out of trouble more the once with it. &gt; &gt; I just finished the transpac and the one thing the owner refused to purchase was a staysail, either the tallboy or working staysail. Our first 5 days we beam reached and it would of been nice. &gt; &gt; The other thing about it is, our older boats only have a genoa or jib halyard, with a off set spin halyard, it comes handy when changing sails. You would raise a tallboy to block the wind so you could drop a head sail behind something and then raise the new sail. &gt; &gt; We use mine a lot. I love it. &gt; &gt; Randy &gt; Cal 2-29 &gt; Out Patient &gt; Channel Islands Ca &gt; &gt; From: "pwestla@..." &lt;pwestla@...&gt; &gt; To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com &gt; Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 7:39 PM &gt; Subject: [Cal_Boats] Need Staysail Education &gt; &gt; &gt; Our boat came with a staysail that we have never used but have been told it is effective for another knot of boat speed in medium to light air when sailing 130 to 150 deg apparent with the spinnaker up. &gt; &gt; Our boat is partially cutter rigged. We have the staysail halyard, a substantially braced u-bolt just aft of the anchor locker to attach it to but no running backstay. This u-bolt is also where we attach the downhaul for the spinnaker. &gt; &gt; Here is the odd part . . . to me at least. The sail is cut long enough to be flown at the masthead using the jib halyard but also has a secondary tack and that shortens the luff by 9' enabling it to be flown from the staysail halyard (I think . . . I didn't actually hoist it from that halyard but it looks about right). It has "reef" ties along what would be the new foot if flown from the staysail halyard. &gt; &gt; What determines when you'd fly it from the jib tack as opposed to the staysail tack? Just wind strength? Do you only use this sail with a spinnaker or maybe beam reaching as well. I assume beam reaching would be with a genoa not a spinnaker and using the shortened staysail on the staysail halyard. &gt; &gt; For what its worth, the sail is VERY light and appears to be made of 1-3/4 oz spinnaker material. &gt; &gt; Any and all comments welcome. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to carry this sail with me for the Governors Cup which is a 70 mile overnight race down the Bay. As of now it looks as if it will be mostly upwind but that could change as the race is this Fri/Sat. &gt; &gt; &gt; Paul West &gt; Dockside Mobile Marine Service &amp; Fuel Polishing Inc. &gt; www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com &gt; 443-614-4070 &gt;

Sailmakers have a somewhat tongue-in-cheek response to questions about staysails: "Put it up and you'll gain half a knot; take it down and you'll gain half a knot." So far as a I know, no sailmakers are making short spinnaker staysails anymore. Tall-and-narrow seems to work best. One of the funniest spinnaker staysails back in the "very old days" (the 30's maybe) was called a "half-bra" (use your imagination). In the 60's, a common staysail shape was called the "top-less" staysail. It was cut like a drifter-reacher, with the top half cut away, and supported by several cords that that joined where the head would have been, and held up the luff, the mid-sections, and the leach. Arguably, it was a quadrilateral sail. I'm not sure why it was legal. In my experience, a staysail might add 1/4 of a knot, at best. Not much, but might be a race-winner over a long course. However, it's no where near as effective as a good start, good tactics, good bottom, and good up-wind sails. If you are flying a staysail with a spinnaker, and the spinnaker collapses, the spinnaker will be sucked in behind the staysail, and be very hard to re-fill. The solution is to quickly "dump" the staysail sheet and re-fill the spinnaker, then re-sheet the staysail. All of this messing around can easily offset any gain the possible advantages of the staysail. Sail-makers often write articles about various sail types. Here are two articles I found: http://www.allatsea.net/article/February_2009/Staysails<http://www.allatsea.net/article/February_2009/Staysails> http://www.porttownsendsails.com/pdf/staysail.pdf<http://www.porttownsendsails.com/pdf/staysail.pdf> From: pw… [at] aol.com<mailto:pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 7:39 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Need Staysail Education Our boat came with a staysail that we have never used but have been told it is effective for another knot of boat speed in medium to light air when sailing 130 to 150 deg apparent with the spinnaker up. Our boat is partially cutter rigged. We have the staysail halyard, a substantially braced u-bolt just aft of the anchor locker to attach it to but no running backstay. This u-bolt is also where we attach the downhaul for the spinnaker. Here is the odd part . . . to me at least. The sail is cut long enough to be flown at the masthead using the jib halyard but also has a secondary tack and that shortens the luff by 9' enabling it to be flown from the staysail halyard (I think . . . I didn't actually hoist it from that halyard but it looks about right). It has "reef" ties along what would be the new foot if flown from the staysail halyard. What determines when you'd fly it from the jib tack as opposed to the staysail tack? Just wind strength? Do you only use this sail with a spinnaker or maybe beam reaching as well. I assume beam reaching would be with a genoa not a spinnaker and using the shortened staysail on the staysail halyard. For what its worth, the sail is VERY light and appears to be made of 1-3/4 oz spinnaker material. Any and all comments welcome. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to carry this sail with me for the Governors Cup which is a 70 mile overnight race down the Bay. As of now it looks as if it will be mostly upwind but that could change as the race is this Fri/Sat. Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com<http://www.docksidemobilemarineservice.com/> 443-614-4070