fuel line failure

I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble finding it. 1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the filter and the engine pump. 2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. As always, thanks. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA

Bob, I can't tell you about your air leak, but I'll bet Joe can, and will. Reality has set in, and I must bail on Port Townsend next weekend. I have reservations for Friday and Saturday nights at Pt. Hudson, which I will cancel withun a couple of days. I suspect they may be kind of hard to come by. If you know anyone who wishes them, let me know and I'll try to arrange a transfer. Good luck with your engine challenge. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma

Bob, I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed with the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only applies if the bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime the engine. I have also experienced your same symptoms with a stick in the pick up tube. This was on a forklift I was repairing and it would run fine for awhile and then just quit. It turned out that the stick acted like a cork and would float to a spot that would block the line. As soon as the vacuum on the fuel line went away, the stick would sink again. It was real fun troubleshooting that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel gauge while I was at it so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' piece of lumber in the tank to see how much fuel was aboard. When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also bleeding air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the bulb a few squeezes and you're good to go? If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you /are/ sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. Hope this helps. Mike M. On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: > > > I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for > anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I > have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and > it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it > and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble > finding it. > 1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and > there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume > that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the > filter and the engine pump. > 2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to > the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to > have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would > hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. > As always, thanks. > Bob Connell > "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 > Shilshole Bay, WA > > >

Thanks Mike. Geez, finding something floating in the tank, that had to be tough. I originally had the bulb between the Racor and the engine and the Racor folks suggested I move it to the other side of the Racor. The guy from Beta Marine said it did not matter and that he had many of them designed that way.....although the coast guard apparently does not like a bulb in the fuel line in any location. I defintely bleed at the engine fuel filter and it takes quite a few squeezes before I get pure fuel out the top. I also do the bleed nut at the injectors as well. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA From: mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Bob, I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed with the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only applies if the bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime the engine. I have also experienced your same symptoms with a stick in the pick up tube. This was on a forklift I was repairing and it would run fine for awhile and then just quit. It turned out that the stick acted like a cork and would float to a spot that would block the line. As soon as the vacuum on the fuel line went away, the stick would sink again. It was real fun troubleshooting that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel gauge while I was at it so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' piece of lumber in the tank to see how much fuel was aboard. When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also bleeding air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the bulb a few squeezes and you're good to go? If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you are sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. Hope this helps. Mike M. On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble finding it. > >1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the filter and the engine pump. >2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. > >As always, thanks. > >Bob Connell >"Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 >Shilshole Bay, WA

Bob, If you have air entering the system definitely check all plumbing fittings. Pay particular attention to where hose clamps are used like at the hose barbs for your priming bulb. Also check your bulb for and hoses for minute, hairline cracks due to dry rot. The movement and stress on the hose involved with pumping the bulb may have broken the hose at the clamp and be very hard to see. As for using teflon tape, I don't like to unless I have enough room on the threads to wrap it and ensure pieces of tape cannot get into the fuel line. Happy hunting! Curious to hear how it turns out... Mike M. On 8/14/2011 2:08 PM, Bob Connell wrote: > > > Thanks Mike. Geez, finding something floating in the tank, that had > to be tough. > I originally had the bulb between the Racor and the engine and the > Racor folks suggested I move it to the other side of the Racor. The > guy from Beta Marine said it did not matter and that he had many of > them designed that way.....although the coast guard apparently does > not like a bulb in the fuel line in any location. > I defintely bleed at the engine fuel filter and it takes quite a few > squeezes before I get pure fuel out the top. I also do the bleed nut > at the injectors as well. > Bob Connell > "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 > Shilshole Bay, WA > *From:* mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure > > Bob, > I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the > problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed with > the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only applies if the > bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime the engine. I have > also experienced your same symptoms with a stick in the pick up tube. > This was on a forklift I was repairing and it would run fine for > awhile and then just quit. It turned out that the stick acted like a > cork and would float to a spot that would block the line. As soon as > the vacuum on the fuel line went away, the stick would sink again. It > was real fun troubleshooting that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel > gauge while I was at it so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' > piece of lumber in the tank to see how much fuel was aboard. > When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also bleeding > air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the bulb a few > squeezes and you're good to go? > If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you /are/ > sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. > Hope this helps. > Mike M. > > On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: >> I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for >> anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I >> have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and >> it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it >> and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble >> finding it. >> 1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and >> there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume >> that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the >> filter and the engine pump. >> 2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to >> the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to >> have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would >> hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. >> As always, thanks. >> Bob Connell >> "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 >> Shilshole Bay, WA > > > > > >

Bob, I agree with Mike. I have a weedwacker that does the exact same thing. The fuel bulb is not working correctly since I rebuilt it and now she only runs for about 20 minutes then dies. I'd take that bulb out and see what happens. I don't have one on my Cal 29 and the Beta runs great, I don't see why you would need one. Good luck, let us know how it works out. Frans Cal 2-29 Hull# 956 Seattle, WA From: mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Bob, I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed with the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only applies if the bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime the engine. I have also experienced your same symptoms with a stick in the pick up tube. This was on a forklift I was repairing and it would run fine for awhile and then just quit. It turned out that the stick acted like a cork and would float to a spot that would block the line. As soon as the vacuum on the fuel line went away, the stick would sink again. It was real fun troubleshooting that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel gauge while I was at it so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' piece of lumber in the tank to see how much fuel was aboard. When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also bleeding air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the bulb a few squeezes and you're good to go? If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you are sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. Hope this helps. Mike M. On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble finding it. > >1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the filter and the engine pump. >2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. > >As always, thanks. > >Bob Connell >"Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 >Shilshole Bay, WA

I installed a bulb on my faryman to aid when changing out the fuel filter when underway. Air can get in the lines to the point it will not start. Simply squeeze the bulb until the fuel returns to the tank and she starts right up. I would not leave the dock without one! Mark Cal 2-29 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Sell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Bob, I agree with Mike. I have a weedwacker that does the exact same thing. The fuel bulb is not working correctly since I rebuilt it and now she only runs for about 20 minutes then dies. I'd take that bulb out and see what happens. I don't have one on my Cal 29 and the Beta runs great, I don't see why you would need one. Good luck, let us know how it works out. Frans Cal 2-29 Hull# 956 Seattle, WA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Bob, I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed with the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only applies if the bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime the engine. I have also experienced your same symptoms with a stick in the pick up tube. This was on a forklift I was repairing and it would run fine for awhile and then just quit. It turned out that the stick acted like a cork and would float to a spot that would block the line. As soon as the vacuum on the fuel line went away, the stick would sink again. It was real fun troubleshooting that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel gauge while I was at it so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' piece of lumber in the tank to see how much fuel was aboard. When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also bleeding air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the bulb a few squeezes and you're good to go? If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you are sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. Hope this helps. Mike M. On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble finding it. 1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the filter and the engine pump. 2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. As always, thanks. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6377 (20110814) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Ah, controversy....... Today I disassembled the Racor in order to check the ball valve operation. Everything looked fine, a little gunk in the bowl but the filter was clean and pink. I checked all the connections; I used #2 gasket goop on the 1/4 to 3/8 copper connectors although I don't think it's necessary. The engine ran for 20 minutes and quit. I re-primed and it ran for 30 minutes until I shut it off to go home. I am confounded by the physics involved. If the bulb is between the tank and the Racor, and it creates some air in the line and it comes gets into the Racor, will it stop the flow of fuel to the engine, or will it just create a bubble up to the top of the filter? I could understand it if the air starved the filter and the filter ran out of fuel so the filter passed on air to the engine but if the filter maintains a sufficient level of fuel I just don't see it causing an interruption. Something is definitely wrong though. I still don't see how going from a 1/4 output on the filter to a 3/8 inch line to the engine doesn't cause a problem but I have been told that it is not an issue. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31 Shilshole Bay, WA From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure  I installed a bulb on my faryman to aid when changing out the fuel filter when underway. Air can get in the lines to the point it will not start. Simply squeeze the bulb until the fuel returns to the tank and she starts right up. I would not leave the dock without one! Mark Cal 2-29 >From: Frans Sell >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:04 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure > > > > >Bob, > > >I agree with Mike. I have a weedwacker that does the exact same thing. The fuel bulb is not working correctly since I rebuilt it and now she only runs for about 20 minutes then dies. I'd take that bulb out and see what happens. I don't have one on my Cal 29 and the Beta runs great, I don't see why you would need one. > > >Good luck, let us know how it works out. > > >Frans >Cal 2-29 Hull# 956 >Seattle, WA > > > > > > From: mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:29 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure > > > >Bob, >I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed with the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only applies if the bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime the engine. I have also experienced your same symptoms with a stick in the pick up tube. This was on a forklift I was repairing and it would run fine for awhile and then just quit. It turned out that the stick acted like a cork and would float to a spot that would block the line. As soon as the vacuum on the fuel line went away, the stick would sink again. It was real fun troubleshooting that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel gauge while I was at it so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' piece of lumber in the tank to see how much fuel was aboard. >When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also bleeding air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the bulb a few squeezes and you're good to go? >If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you are sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. >Hope this helps. >Mike M. > >On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: >I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble finding it. >> >>1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the filter and the engine pump. >>2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. >> >>As always, thanks. >> >>Bob Connell >>"Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 >>Shilshole Bay, WA > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6377 (20110814) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com >

Greetings everyone,, I had the same problem with my 1gm10 Yanmar. I installed a raycor/parker fuel/water separator, and installed new fuel lines. I used the little lift pump lever located next to the fuel pump to bleed the air out. My engine would run for exactly seventeen minutes, then quit. I checked all my fittings, and found some to be slightly loose, plus the fuel canister and hole plugs on the fuel filter was loose as well. I don't know about the Beta engines, there are two bleed nuts on the engine fuel pump, plus the nut before the high pressure injector line. If you have two cylinders, there should be a bleed nut for both injectors. Although an two cylinder will run if one injector is bled, you just won't have full power. I found that having the proper fittings to your hoses is important so that the clamps will clamp the hose properly. I kinda doubt that the air bubble will prevent the fuel from flowing from the filter, but the bubble is traveling through your line to the injectors. Another thing, is that having a squeeze blub, is not the correct thing to have on a diesel fuel line, for the more fittings you have, the more probability of leaking air into your lines. If you have a manual lift pump, that should be sufficient to bleed air from the lines and to prime it. I had to bleed the engine fuel filter and the one at the injector separately. You should see air bubbles come out and then solid fuel. Make sure the nuts are tighten to not let air seep back in. After that, I turned the engine over by opening the de-compressing lever to bled the high pressure line to the injectors. I then close that lever and then started the engine. After several attempts and some of my favorite choice words, it now runs great and I have now run her with no problems on my sea trials so far. If you turn your engine over with the de-compressing lever open, you may be letting some fuel into the crank case. You may want to change your oil and not take the chance of letting it get thinned out. At least that is what I was told to do as a safety concern as to not prematurely experience high engine wear. If all else fails, consult your engine manual for the procedure for bleeding the air from your lines and to see if a bulb is okay to have on it. I wish you well and hope that you solve your mystery, so that you can get to enjoy sailing! Hoped that this helped! Happy and safe sailing everyone! Jim Ives Rochester, NY Cal 2-29 Kool Beans To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: jo… [at] yahoo.com Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 20:55:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Ah, controversy....... Today I disassembled the Racor in order to check the ball valve operation. Everything looked fine, a little gunk in the bowl but the filter was clean and pink. I checked all the connections; I used #2 gasket goop on the 1/4 to 3/8 copper connectors although I don't think it's necessary. The engine ran for 20 minutes and quit. I re-primed and it ran for 30 minutes until I shut it off to go home. I am confounded by the physics involved. If the bulb is between the tank and the Racor, and it creates some air in the line and it comes gets into the Racor, will it stop the flow of fuel to the engine, or will it just create a bubble up to the top of the filter? I could understand it if the air starved the filter and the filter ran out of fuel so the filter passed on air to the engine but if the filter maintains a sufficient level of fuel I just don't see it causing an interruption. Something is definitely wrong though. I still don't see how going from a 1/4 output on the filter to a 3/8 inch line to the engine doesn't cause a problem but I have been told that it is not an issue. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31 Shilshole Bay, WA From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure  I installed a bulb on my faryman to aid when changing out the fuel filter when underway. Air can get in the lines to the point it will not start. Simply squeeze the bulb until the fuel returns to the tank and she starts right up. I would not leave the dock without one! Mark Cal 2-29 From: Frans Sell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Bob, I agree with Mike. I have a weedwacker that does the exact same thing. The fuel bulb is not working correctly since I rebuilt it and now she only runs for about 20 minutes then dies. I'd take that bulb out and see what happens. I don't have one on my Cal 29 and the Beta runs great, I don't see why you would need one. Good luck, let us know how it works out. Frans Cal 2-29 Hull# 956 Seattle, WA From: mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Bob, I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed with the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only applies if the bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime the engine. I have also experienced your same symptoms with a stick in the pick up tube. This was on a forklift I was repairing and it would run fine for awhile and then just quit. It turned out that the stick acted like a cork and would float to a spot that would block the line. As soon as the vacuum on the fuel line went away, the stick would sink again. It was real fun troubleshooting that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel gauge while I was at it so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' piece of lumber in the tank to see how much fuel was aboard. When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also bleeding air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the bulb a few squeezes and you're good to go? If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you are sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. Hope this helps. Mike M. On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble finding it. 1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the filter and the engine pump. 2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. As always, thanks. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6377 (20110814) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Jim I have the manual and after about 3 frustrating hours trying to bleed the air out of the system concluded that three or four squeezes was a much better option. And if you have a filter plug up after sailing in rough weather all day and come into an anchorage at night and the engine will not start because in trying to restart with a plugged racor filter it has sucked air in the lines. Just try and bleed it while underway it aint easy and you may not get it started. Or simply squeezing a bulb several times to correct the problem and the motor starts right up every time...been there done that....its really a no brainer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ives To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:51 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Greetings everyone,, I had the same problem with my 1gm10 Yanmar. I installed a raycor/parker fuel/water separator, and installed new fuel lines. I used the little lift pump lever located next to the fuel pump to bleed the air out. My engine would run for exactly seventeen minutes, then quit. I checked all my fittings, and found some to be slightly loose, plus the fuel canister and hole plugs on the fuel filter was loose as well. I don't know about the Beta engines, there are two bleed nuts on the engine fuel pump, plus the nut before the high pressure injector line. If you have two cylinders, there should be a bleed nut for both injectors. Although an two cylinder will run if one injector is bled, you just won't have full power. I found that having the proper fittings to your hoses is important so that the clamps will clamp the hose properly. I kinda doubt that the air bubble will prevent the fuel from flowing from the filter, but the bubble is traveling through your line to the injectors. Another thing, is that having a squeeze blub, is not the correct thing to have on a diesel fuel line, for the more fittings you have, the more probability of leaking air into your lines. If you have a manual lift pump, that should be sufficient to bleed air from the lines and to prime it. I had to bleed the engine fuel filter and the one at the injector separately. You should see air bubbles come out and then solid fuel. Make sure the nuts are tighten to not let air seep back in. After that, I turned the engine over by opening the de-compressing lever to bled the high pressure line to the injectors. I then close that lever and then started the engine. After several attempts and some of my favorite choice words, it now runs great and I have now run her with no problems on my sea trials so far. If you turn your engine over with the de-compressing lever open, you may be letting some fuel into the crank case. You may want to change your oil and not take the chance of letting it get thinned out. At least that is what I was told to do as a safety concern as to not prematurely experience high engine wear. If all else fails, consult your engine manual for the procedure for bleeding the air from your lines and to see if a bulb is okay to have on it. I wish you well and hope that you solve your mystery, so that you can get to enjoy sailing! Hoped that this helped! Happy and safe sailing everyone! Jim Ives Rochester, NY Cal 2-29 Kool Beans ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: jo… [at] yahoo.com Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 20:55:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Ah, controversy....... Today I disassembled the Racor in order to check the ball valve operation. Everything looked fine, a little gunk in the bowl but the filter was clean and pink. I checked all the connections; I used #2 gasket goop on the 1/4 to 3/8 copper connectors although I don't think it's necessary. The engine ran for 20 minutes and quit. I re-primed and it ran for 30 minutes until I shut it off to go home. I am confounded by the physics involved. If the bulb is between the tank and the Racor, and it creates some air in the line and it comes gets into the Racor, will it stop the flow of fuel to the engine, or will it just create a bubble up to the top of the filter? I could understand it if the air starved the filter and the filter ran out of fuel so the filter passed on air to the engine but if the filter maintains a sufficient level of fuel I just don't see it causing an interruption. Something is definitely wrong though. I still don't see how going from a 1/4 output on the filter to a 3/8 inch line to the engine doesn't cause a problem but I have been told that it is not an issue. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31 Shilshole Bay, WA From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure  I installed a bulb on my faryman to aid when changing out the fuel filter when underway. Air can get in the lines to the point it will not start. Simply squeeze the bulb until the fuel returns to the tank and she starts right up. I would not leave the dock without one! Mark Cal 2-29 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Sell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Bob, I agree with Mike. I have a weedwacker that does the exact same thing. The fuel bulb is not working correctly since I rebuilt it and now she only runs for about 20 minutes then dies. I'd take that bulb out and see what happens. I don't have one on my Cal 29 and the Beta runs great, I don't see why you would need one. Good luck, let us know how it works out. Frans Cal 2-29 Hull# 956 Seattle, WA From: mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure Bob, I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed with the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only applies if the bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime the engine. I have also experienced your same symptoms with a stick in the pick up tube. This was on a forklift I was repairing and it would run fine for awhile and then just quit. It turned out that the stick acted like a cork and would float to a spot that would block the line. As soon as the vacuum on the fuel line went away, the stick would sink again. It was real fun troubleshooting that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel gauge while I was at it so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' piece of lumber in the tank to see how much fuel was aboard. When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also bleeding air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the bulb a few squeezes and you're good to go? If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you are sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. Hope this helps. Mike M. On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great for anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine quits. I have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the engine again and it will start right up. Then a hour later it dies again. Bleed it and it starts again. Sounds like an air leak but am having trouble finding it. 1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I assume that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but between the filter and the engine pump. 2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor to the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings need to have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the teflon would hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. As always, thanks. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Shilshole Bay, WA __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6377 (20110814) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6377 (20110814) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Hi Bob - Try this - Get a CLEAN container of fresh fuel, and a 2' length of 5/16" ID clear hose. Put the hose onto the engine's fuel supply pump using the correct size hose clamp, and the other end into the clean fuel. Prime the secondary fuel filter to purge all air. Now start the engine. If your engine "running then stopping problem" does not occur, this indicates the fuel supply problem is somewhere between the fuel tank and fuel pump. Any leaks there will suck air into the system. Note that your engine uses 5/16" fuel hose, not 3/8". *Joe DeMers - owner* Sound Marine Diesel LLC SoundMarineDiesel.com <http://www.soundmarinediesel.com/> *phone & fax (860) 666-2184* On 8/14/2011 11:55 PM, Bob Connell wrote: > > > Ah, controversy....... > Today I disassembled the Racor in order to check the ball valve > operation. Everything looked fine, a little gunk in the bowl but the > filter was clean and pink. I checked all the connections; I used #2 > gasket goop on the 1/4 to 3/8 copper connectors although I don't think > it's necessary. The engine ran for 20 minutes and quit. I re-primed > and it ran for 30 minutes until I shut it off to go home. > I am confounded by the physics involved. If the bulb is between the > tank and the Racor, and it creates some air in the line and it comes > gets into the Racor, will it stop the flow of fuel to the engine, or > will it just create a bubble up to the top of the filter? I could > understand it if the air starved the filter and the filter ran out of > fuel so the filter passed on air to the engine but if the filter > maintains a sufficient level of fuel I just don't see it causing an > interruption. Something is definitely wrong though. I still don't see > how going from a 1/4 output on the filter to a 3/8 inch line to the > engine doesn't cause a problem but I have been told that it is not an > issue. > Bob Connell > "Jollygood!", Cal 31 > Shilshole Bay, WA > *From:* Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:28 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure > > ? > I installed a bulb on my faryman to aid when changing out the fuel > filter when underway. Air can get in the lines to the point it will > not start. Simply squeeze the bulb until the fuel returns to the tank > and she starts right up. I would not leave the dock without one! > Mark > Cal 2-29 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Frans Sell <mailto:fr… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure > > > Bob, > > I agree with Mike. I have a weedwacker that does the exact same > thing. The fuel bulb is not working correctly since I rebuilt it > and now she only runs for about 20 minutes then dies. I'd take > that bulb out and see what happens. I don't have one on my Cal 29 > and the Beta runs great, I don't see why you would need one. > > Good luck, let us know how it works out. > > Frans > Cal 2-29 Hull# 956 > Seattle, WA > > > *From:* mike <mi… [at] wahini.org> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] fuel line failure > > Bob, > I'll bet dollars to donuts that your priming bulb is causing the > problem. I have had one actually shut fuel off by pinching closed > with the vacuum on the line before. Of course this bet only > applies if the bulb appears squeezed before you try to re-prime > the engine. I have also experienced your same symptoms with a > stick in the pick up tube. This was on a forklift I was repairing > and it would run fine for awhile and then just quit. It turned out > that the stick acted like a cork and would float to a spot that > would block the line. As soon as the vacuum on the fuel line went > away, the stick would sink again. It was real fun troubleshooting > that one. I went ahead and fixed the fuel gauge while I was at it > so the guys wouldn't need to shove any ol' piece of lumber in the > tank to see how much fuel was aboard. > When you say you have to 're-prime the engine', are you also > bleeding air out of the lines at the injectors? Or just giving the > bulb a few squeezes and you're good to go? > If you also have to bleed at the injectors then I would say you > /are/ sucking air. If not, then look for a fuel block. > Hope this helps. > Mike M. > > On 8/14/2011 11:24 AM, Bob Connell wrote: >> I have installed a new Beta Marine 20 in my Cal. It runs great >> for anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes and then the engine >> quits. I have a bulb before the Racor filter and I prime the >> engine again and it will start right up. Then a hour later it >> dies again. Bleed it and it starts again. Sounds like an air >> leak but am having trouble finding it. >> 1. If the engine has quit, and I remove the top of the Racor and >> there is fuel in it covering the input and output holes, can I >> assume that the air leak is NOT between my tank and filter but >> between the filter and the engine pump. >> 2. I have a reduction from the 1/4 inch output hose of the Racor >> to the 3/8 inch hose required by the engine. Do those fittings >> need to have thread tape? I assumed not as I didn't think the >> teflon would hold up anyway but that could be my weak point. >> As always, thanks. >> Bob Connell >> "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 >> Shilshole Bay, WA > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 6377 (20110814) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3832 - Release Date: 08/13/11 14:34:00 > -- *Joe DeMers - owner* Sound Marine Diesel LLC SoundMarineDiesel.com <http://www.soundmarinediesel.com/> *phone & fax (860) 666-2184*