Phase2: Wrap up/Winch

Hey, Thank you all for the suggestions. I will look into crewing on other boats. Still, I need a solution for today. I understand that how the lines are routed may change and so I plan to rig a generic system that will allow for that. I am thinking of using garhauer's 4x2 deck organizer (30-D0-DSQB) to route eight lines back. For now, that will be main halyard, jib halyard, topping lift, outhaul, reef tack, reef clew, boomvang. I have three or four lewmar clutches on hand and will order a few more. I would prefer to simply mount eight, in a row, on a teak riser block with stainless backing plate below. Does a cam cleat offer any advantage except in lower expense? I will also need to decide if I mount a winch on the cabin top. I am thinking not and will explain my thinking- please cut me down if I'm overlooking something. Without the winch, stoppers are mounted almost all the way to the aft end of the cabin top and overlook the cockpit. A line can be routed from any of them to either cockpit winch. One cockpit winch will be used for the jib sheet most of the time and so this leaves one winch available for the stoppers. Now, with a third winch on the cabin top. Stoppers need to be mounted between the deck organizer and winch. This means that the stoppers aren't overlooking the cockpit and can't be used on the cockpit winches. These leaves the same scenario, 1 winch available for the stoppers. Adam

You need a cabin top winch. A cam cleat would not work for the halyards but would be excellent for the topping lift and boom vang assuming the vang has sufficient purchase. The halyards and reef clew will need the winch and clutches. The outhaul will either need a clutch and a winch or a lot of purchase from a block system. I have a 20:1 block system on my outhaul for example. It terminates in a clutch but it could be a cam cleat just as well. I would think the reef tack would be fine with just a clutch assuming you then snug things up with the halyard. Allen On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > Hey, > Thank you all for the suggestions. I will look into crewing on other boats. > Still, I need a solution for today. I understand that how the lines are > routed may change and so I plan to rig a generic system that will allow for > that. I am thinking of using garhauer's 4x2 deck organizer (30-D0-DSQB) to > route eight lines back. For now, that will be main halyard, jib halyard, > topping lift, outhaul, reef tack, reef clew, boomvang. I have three or four > lewmar clutches on hand and will order a few more. I would prefer to simply > mount eight, in a row, on a teak riser block with stainless backing plate > below. Does a cam cleat offer any advantage except in lower expense? > > I will also need to decide if I mount a winch on the cabin top. I am > thinking not and will explain my thinking- please cut me down if I'm > overlooking something. Without the winch, stoppers are mounted almost all > the way to the aft end of the cabin top and overlook the cockpit. A line can > be routed from any of them to either cockpit winch. One cockpit winch will > be used for the jib sheet most of the time and so this leaves one winch > available for the stoppers. Now, with a third winch on the cabin top. > Stoppers need to be mounted between the deck organizer and winch. This means > that the stoppers aren't overlooking the cockpit and can't be used on the > cockpit winches. These leaves the same scenario, 1 winch available for the > stoppers. > Adam > > > > > >

Alan. You are asking for override problems using a sheet winch with the cabintop stoppers. Lines should lead to a winch from below the drum -- Harken recommends 5-8 degrees , Antal is more liberal with 2 - 10 deg. I ocassionally use a sheet winch to adjust my cabintop main traveler while under load and for this to work I need to wind the line on the winch drum upside down -- not a quick or convenient process. You could use a snatch block to pull the cabintop lines down to a proper lead angle but this is also not very convenient and will add more friction to the system. I don't know how large your boat is, but the stopper on a friends Island Packet 45 wasn't up to maintaining the main halyard tension. A dedicated main halyard winch may be a good idea. Go with one or two cabintop winches. Stoppers are designed to hold winched lines. Cam cleats are for hand tensioned lines. Regards, DuaneKnize Cal 2-39, # 18 Marlyn On 7/27/2011 9:03 AM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > Hey, > > Thank you all for the suggestions. I will look into crewing on other > boats. Still, I need a solution for today. I understand that how the > lines are routed may change and so I plan to rig a generic system that > will allow for that. I am thinking of using garhauer's 4x2 deck > organizer (30-D0-DSQB) to route eight lines back. For now, that will > be main halyard, jib halyard, topping lift, outhaul, reef tack, reef > clew, boomvang. I have three or four lewmar clutches on hand and will > order a few more. I would prefer to simply mount eight, in a row, on a > teak riser block with stainless backing plate below. Does a cam cleat > offer any advantage except in lower expense? > > I will also need to decide if I mount a winch on the cabin top. I am > thinking not and will explain my thinking- please cut me down if I'm > overlooking something. Without the winch, stoppers are mounted almost > all the way to the aft end of the cabin top and overlook the cockpit. > A line can be routed from any of them to either cockpit winch. One > cockpit winch will be used for the jib sheet most of the time and so > this leaves one winch available for the stoppers. Now, with a third > winch on the cabin top. Stoppers need to be mounted between the deck > organizer and winch. This means that the stoppers aren't overlooking > the cockpit and can't be used on the cockpit winches. These leaves the > same scenario, 1 winch available for the stoppers. > Adam > > > > >

What the racers do to hold halyard tension is to run the halyard through two stoppers. For example, if you have a gang of three stoppers a bit forward with the halyard running through the left most stopper, and another three gang stopper behind it with the halyard running through the right most stopper, you can run 5 lines through it with one having twice the holding power and all sharing the same winch. On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Duane Knize <kn… [at] san.rr.com> wrote: > ** > > > ** Alan. > > You are asking for override problems using a sheet winch with the cabintop > stoppers. Lines should lead to a winch from below the drum -- Harken > recommends 5-8 degrees , Antal is more liberal with 2 - 10 deg. I > ocassionally use a sheet winch to adjust my cabintop main traveler while > under load and for this to work I need to wind the line on the winch drum > upside down -- not a quick or convenient process. You could use a snatch > block to pull the cabintop lines down to a proper lead angle but this is > also not very convenient and will add more friction to the system. > > I don't know how large your boat is, but the stopper on a friends Island > Packet 45 wasn't up to maintaining the main halyard tension. > A dedicated main halyard winch may be a good idea. > > Go with one or two cabintop winches. > > Stoppers are designed to hold winched lines. Cam cleats are for hand > tensioned lines. > > Regards, > DuaneKnize > Cal 2-39, # 18 > Marlyn > > > > On 7/27/2011 9:03 AM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > > > Hey, > Thank you all for the suggestions. I will look into crewing on other boats. > Still, I need a solution for today. I understand that how the lines are > routed may change and so I plan to rig a generic system that will allow for > that. I am thinking of using garhauer's 4x2 deck organizer (30-D0-DSQB) to > route eight lines back. For now, that will be main halyard, jib halyard, > topping lift, outhaul, reef tack, reef clew, boomvang. I have three or four > lewmar clutches on hand and will order a few more. I would prefer to simply > mount eight, in a row, on a teak riser block with stainless backing plate > below. Does a cam cleat offer any advantage except in lower expense? > > I will also need to decide if I mount a winch on the cabin top. I am > thinking not and will explain my thinking- please cut me down if I'm > overlooking something. Without the winch, stoppers are mounted almost all > the way to the aft end of the cabin top and overlook the cockpit. A line can > be routed from any of them to either cockpit winch. One cockpit winch will > be used for the jib sheet most of the time and so this leaves one winch > available for the stoppers. Now, with a third winch on the cabin top. > Stoppers need to be mounted between the deck organizer and winch. This means > that the stoppers aren't overlooking the cockpit and can't be used on the > cockpit winches. These leaves the same scenario, 1 winch available for the > stoppers. > Adam > > > > > >

Hi Everyone! I need to know what the tension should be on the main, forward and aft halyards should be. I currently have them tight, but not sloppy. Does any of the 29's have that data? Also,,, I need to acquire the cars for the deck tracks and one for the traveler. Does anyone know where I can go to find them? This is my last big hurdle to jump over so that I can take Kool Beans on her first shake down cruise. Any help would be appreciable! Thanks to all in advance! Happy sailing! Jim Ives Rochester, NY Cal 2-29 Kool Beans

I am guessing you are asking what the tensions should be on the shrouds??? If so, this might help http://l-36.com/lapworth_letter.php In terms of the main halyard, I might suggest this http://l-36.com/read_pdf.php?file=/sailtrim/Mainsail_Trim_Guide&title=Mainsail%20Trim Allen On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Jim Ives <ne… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Everyone! > > I need to know what the tension should be on the main, forward and aft > halyards should be. I currently have them tight, but not sloppy. Does any of > the 29's have that data? > > Also,,, > > I need to acquire the cars for the deck tracks and one for the traveler. > Does anyone know where I can go to find them? This is my last big hurdle to > jump over so that I can take Kool Beans on her first shake down cruise. Any > help would be appreciable! > > Thanks to all in advance! > > Happy sailing! > > Jim Ives > Rochester, NY > Cal 2-29 Kool Beans > > > > > > > > > >

Thank you Allen! I appreciate the info on the links that you provided! Jim Ives Cal 2-29 Kool Beans To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:10:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 2-29 questions.... I am guessing you are asking what the tensions should be on the shrouds??? If so, this might help http://l-36.com/lapworth_letter.php In terms of the main halyard, I might suggest this http://l-36.com/read_pdf.php?file=/sailtrim/Mainsail_Trim_Guide&title=Mainsail%20Trim Allen On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Jim Ives <ne… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: Hi Everyone! I need to know what the tension should be on the main, forward and aft halyards should be. I currently have them tight, but not sloppy. Does any of the 29's have that data? Also,,, I need to acquire the cars for the deck tracks and one for the traveler. Does anyone know where I can go to find them? This is my last big hurdle to jump over so that I can take Kool Beans on her first shake down cruise. Any help would be appreciable! Thanks to all in advance! Happy sailing! Jim Ives Rochester, NY Cal 2-29 Kool Beans

Hi Jim, The cars on the toe rail were Schaefer Marine. They were the spring loaded stand up type. I replaced them with the ones you can run more than one sheet, since chance sails quite often. The traveler is also Schaefer Marine. You will have to decide how you want to set your traveler up so you can manage your&nbsp;mains angle to the&nbsp;wind. My&nbsp;travler only had pins to keep the sail from dropping to far down the track and all I could do is ease the sheet on a reach. I could never center the boom or get it above center when needed. Now that I added blocks and purchase to it, I found the car gets stuck were the pins left groves. I have to sail with one foot on the mainsheet to push the car down the traveler. I also noticed my track is slightly&nbsp;bowed preventing more freedom of movement. I am&nbsp;going to have to replace it all. My dream is to go Harken. If I was at home. I would send you the &nbsp;link on how mine is currently set up and what I am replacing it with.&nbsp; Randy Cal 2-29 Out Patient -- Sent from my Palm Pixi On Aug 17, 2011 20:37, Jim Ives &lt;ne… [at] hotmail.com&gt; wrote: &nbsp; Hi Everyone! &nbsp; I need to know what the tension should be on the main, forward and aft halyards should be. I currently have them tight, but not sloppy. Does any of the 29's have that data? &nbsp; Also,,, &nbsp; I need to acquire the&nbsp;cars for the deck tracks and one for the traveler. Does anyone know where I can go to find them? This is my last big hurdle to jump over so&nbsp;that I can take Kool Beans on her first shake down&nbsp;cruise. Any help would be appreciable! &nbsp; Thanks to all in advance! &nbsp; Happy sailing!&nbsp; &nbsp; Jim Ives Rochester, NY Cal 2-29&nbsp; Kool Beans &nbsp;

Randy, Check with Garhauer before you decide to buy Harken. Dave Dobbs CAL29 411 --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Randall Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Randall Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 2-29 questions.... To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 9:55 AM Hi Jim, The cars on the toe rail were Schaefer Marine. They were the spring loaded stand up type. I replaced them with the ones you can run more than one sheet, since chance sails quite often. The traveler is also Schaefer Marine. You will have to decide how you want to set your traveler up so you can manage your mains angle to the wind. My travler only had pins to keep the sail from dropping to far down the track and all I could do is ease the sheet on a reach. I could never center the boom or get it above center when needed. Now that I added blocks and purchase to it, I found the car gets stuck were the pins left groves. I have to sail with one foot on the mainsheet to push the car down the traveler. I also noticed my track is slightly bowed preventing more freedom of movement. I am going to have to replace it all. My dream is to go Harken. If I was at home. I would send you the link on how mine is currently set up and what I am replacing it with. Randy Cal 2-29 Out Patient -- Sent from my Palm Pixi On Aug 17, 2011 20:37, Jim Ives <ne… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: Hi Everyone! I need to know what the tension should be on the main, forward and aft halyards should be. I currently have them tight, but not sloppy. Does any of the 29's have that data? Also,,, I need to acquire the cars for the deck tracks and one for the traveler. Does anyone know where I can go to find them? This is my last big hurdle to jump over so that I can take Kool Beans on her first shake down cruise. Any help would be appreciable! Thanks to all in advance! Happy sailing! Jim Ives Rochester, NY Cal 2-29 Kool Beans

Randy, I would not say what Dave said. I would say forget Harken and phone Garhauer and order your new traveler. They will basically make it custom to fit your boat and do so for 1/2 the cost of the Harken. I have one of their travelers and it is wonderful. The Harken is probably a few ounces lighter though. Allen On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:22 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > > Randy, > Check with Garhauer before you decide to buy Harken. > Dave Dobbs CAL29 411 > > --- On *Thu, 8/18/11, Randall Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com>* wrote: > > > From: Randall Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 2-29 questions.... > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 9:55 AM > > > Hi Jim, > > The cars on the toe rail were Schaefer Marine. They were the spring loaded > stand up type. I replaced them with the ones you can run more than one > sheet, since chance sails quite often. > > The traveler is also Schaefer Marine. You will have to decide how you want > to set your traveler up so you can manage your mains angle to the wind. > > My travler only had pins to keep the sail from dropping to far down the > track and all I could do is ease the sheet on a reach. I could never center > the boom or get it above center when needed. Now that I added blocks and > purchase to it, I found the car gets stuck were the pins left groves. I have > to sail with one foot on the mainsheet to push the car down the traveler. I > also noticed my track is slightly bowed preventing more freedom of movement. > > > I am going to have to replace it all. > > My dream is to go Harken. If I was at home. I would send you the link on > how mine is currently set up and what I am replacing it with. > > Randy > Cal 2-29 > Out Patient > > > -- Sent from my Palm Pixi > > ------------------------------ > On Aug 17, 2011 20:37, Jim Ives <ne… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Everyone! > > I need to know what the tension should be on the main, forward and aft > halyards should be. I currently have them tight, but not sloppy. Does any of > the 29's have that data? > > Also,,, > > I need to acquire the cars for the deck tracks and one for the traveler. > Does anyone know where I can go to find them? This is my last big hurdle to > jump over so that I can take Kool Beans on her first shake down cruise. Any > help would be appreciable! > > Thanks to all in advance! > > Happy sailing! > > Jim Ives > Rochester, NY > Cal 2-29 Kool Beans > > > > > > > > > >

Harken is great, but for several years now all the new Catalina boat's rigging is from Garhauer, it's stainless steel vs. carbon alloy composite. Gotta love both of them! I've got to have the only boat in existence that races with those funny brown winches from 1960, but they are counter rotating, very cool. When one of my brass tang springs failed, I glued in a piece of rubber pipe insulation to do the job. I love the counter rotation, but it confuses the heck out of anyone new who crews on my boat, and confuses me every time I crew on a more modern boat with one way winches. Everything else on my boat is minimal minimal original, meant for cruising only. I adapted my existing hardware on my traveler, which had only pinch clamps, to 2:1 blocks by using little wire blocks and 3/16 braid and cam cleats.I also keep it sliding with an occasional squirt of molybdenum grease from a spray can. Crude but effective. I also use cam cleats for my Genoa sheets, surprisingly, the same size cam cleats used on Pendragon's V's sheets, the local brand new Davidson 69' super sled that was in the last month's Trans-Pac. I do all my Genoa trimming by hand without using a winch handle, and when I need a power boost I get one or more crew to grab and haul and yank at the same time. That would be impossible in a mast head, or a larger boat. It's way hard on my back tho, and I have a bad back.. I brace myself on the cockpit and stand up, then lever my body weight down like a rower if I'm by myself. One thing tho, it sure gets the sheets in fasssst! One of my friends was showing me the double speed winches with self tailers on his 24'Yankee Dolphin, who'd crew with us on a race up the channel three weeks ago, and telling me what I'm doing is not for old men like us, and decidedly uncivilized. He's probably right. I found out that my bottom cleaner had hired help for his business, and found out that's why my bottom hadn't appeared to have been cleaned in over a month; (grass and coral growing!)it wasn't me not paying my bills on time and him giving up on meand why, until Tuesday night, I'd been falling behind the fleet so badly. This Tuesday night we made up for that, got a half decent start and stayed neck and neck with the faster boats all the way to the finish line, correcting out in first place, and coping a third place for series 4, meaning, I might get a nice trophy at our holiday dinner come next December. Two series third places! woo hooo! Racing neck and neck is so much more exciting, altho much more mentally stressful, when you realize one false move (going off course for a few seconds while you trim a sail) makes or breaks you place at the finish line. I am trying to concentrate on keeping on course while looking back over the stern. It really works, and isn't difficult. Jerry From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 2-29 Traveler(Randy) Randy, Check with Garhauer before you decide to buy Harken. Dave Dobbs CAL29 411 --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Randall Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >From: Randall Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 2-29 questions.... >To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 9:55 AM > > > >Hi Jim, > >The cars on the toe rail were Schaefer Marine. They were the spring loaded stand up type. I replaced them with the ones you can run more than one sheet, since chance sails quite often. > >The traveler is also Schaefer Marine. You will have to decide how you want to set your traveler up so you can manage your mains angle to the wind. > >My travler only had pins to keep the sail from dropping to far down the track and all I could do is ease the sheet on a reach. I could never center the boom or get it above center when needed. Now that I added blocks and purchase to it, I found the car gets stuck were the pins left groves. I have to sail with one foot on the mainsheet to push the car down the traveler. I also noticed my track is slightly bowed preventing more freedom of movement. > >I am going to have to replace it all. > >My dream is to go Harken. If I was at home. I would send you the link on how mine is currently set up and what I am replacing it with. > >Randy >Cal 2-29 >Out Patient > > >-- Sent from my Palm Pixi > >________________________________ > On Aug 17, 2011 20:37, Jim Ives <ne… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > >Hi Everyone! > >I need to know what the tension should be on the main, forward and aft halyards should be. I currently have them tight, but not sloppy. Does any of the 29's have that data? > >Also,,, > >I need to acquire the cars for the deck tracks and one for the traveler. Does anyone know where I can go to find them? This is my last big hurdle to jump over so that I can take Kool Beans on her first shake down cruise. Any help would be appreciable! > >Thanks to all in advance! > >Happy sailing! > >Jim Ives >Rochester, NY >Cal 2-29 Kool Beans > > > > > > > > > > > >

yup.....that would be my preference as well. /ch On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:22 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Randy, > Check with Garhauer before you decide to buy Harken. > Dave Dobbs CAL29 411 >