Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light

Hey folks, What I've noticed is that this topic never seems to end on this group. I think that someone needs to go to the coast guard and get the regulations from an active duty station like the one we have in Seattle. The answer you seek is in the Seamanship Guidelines approved by the USCG. It is up to date and you can get it from West Marine for about 50 bucks, the best money I ever spent, second only to the Navy's "Seamanship" and "Basic Military Requirements" You will find that the rules very seldom change. An anchorage light is placed in the same place it has been since they were invented. Don't be offended by what I'm going to say because the following is just common sense and logic. It is just getting irritating that our email gets plugged up with the same redundant question about an anchorage light. Many of you in this forum have been sailing for decades... Some of you since before I was born---and I'm going to be the dreaded 40 next year. We all know that being the owner of a vessel and using it after dark should mean that you would know the answer to this question, and if you have to repair or replace your faulty mast or equipment that you would just buy the same basic gear that your vessel was designed with. If the coast guard is giving you a hard time about your lighting, and it is something that you have changed about your mast or fixture then you should probably change it back. I have the original masthead light that was with my boat from the factory when the vessel was constructed in 1977. I use my vessel in waters that are patrolled by Navy and Coast Guard patrol boats and never get harassed, and that includes the sub base. One thing that I have learned over the years about boating is that if you just leave things as stock as possible when making upgrades, you will less likely run into equipment failure and you won't be harassed by the Coasties. Also, anchoring in an area that is close enough to shore and deep enough not to leave you high and dry in the am if the tide goes out while you're sleeping would also be a good way to avoid issues over anchor lights. Understand that this is only my opinion and based on my experience of boating in the Hood Canal and Puget Sound. If you use common sense when selecting an anchorage, you anchor light--however inadequate you may think it is or inept that your boat's architect was--will be the least of you worries if you anchor away from shipping lanes--the main reason why sailboats and mast-ed vessels have systems like this.. I notice that many sailors want to customize their lighting and rigging to make the vessel look and respond the way they want it to. Much of the time all they end up doing is making a simple problem much more complicated. Its like the rigging---the more sheets and sails you rig the more complicated it is to single hand in an emergency. Buy the right books approved by the USCG. Read them cover to cover and keep them on board as a reference. Don't change things on your boat if you have doubts about you or somebody's safety. Take a boater's course and get a license. Do these things as I have, you will enjoy boating much more. You will also spend much less money in the long run. Have a great day ship mates, and smooth-following seas. ;) Brian Hess "Vegvisir" Port Orchard, WA From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:35:47 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light I'm curious, has anyone found an official document or response that an anchor light in the rigging is not legal? I found a reference to much older rules that described the anchor light in the rigging. If it is not legal then your masthead steaming light obscured by the rolled up jib isn't legal. How can the anchor lights described for a large vessel ever be legal? The mast for the higher forward anchor light will obscure the lower aft anchor light. Annapolis Book of Seamanship states that a light on top of the mast or a light hanging from the headstay are the options for anchoring lights. For a perfect point source, if my light is 10 feet away from my mast that's 2 degrees obscured. My boat can't swing at anchor more than +/-1 degree for me not to be seen. At 1000 feet out the other vessel only has to travel 35 feet sideways to be able to see the light. At 15 feet away from the mast it's only +/-0.6 degrees. John ---------------- From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Perhaps these two references may be of help: http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/4_2_b.php www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/ <http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/> USCGMinReq.pdf My read is that you do not require the light to be placed on the masthead. /ch On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Rich Beliveau <ri… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:ri… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: We have this issue with the cg all the time. It has to be 360 dgr visible so hanging lights don't qualify. I almost ran a 41 Morgan over last year coming back from a night dive. He was properly lit with a top mast anchor light that blends wonderfully with the stars. Thank god for good toys on the boat as I picked him up on radar. I run 2 lights (not legal) but it keeps the cg off your back. One proper, one realistic. Rich On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:03 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ch… [at] gmail.com> > wrote: Comments in line..... On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> hu… [at] bah.com <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> > wrote: Chris, I think the US law says 360 degree visibility, which the lower lamp sort of does not provide. Misunderstanding I think Charlie...was suggesting a separate anchor light from Bebe Electronics or similar as the immediate solution as its the least work. Can be hung from anywhere as long as it meets USCG requirements. I've always thought it asinine that anchor lights should be at the masthead. One is riding around an anchorage looking 40-50 feet into the air instead of paying attention to hulls in the water that one could ram. I use a lower hanging lamp as well. Attach a feeder line to it and a halyard. Run it yp a ways, and then tie the feeder out far enough that the lamp won't bounce off the mast or anything like that. Cheers Charlie From: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:33 PM To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Corrosion in the fitting shorting out the bulb. You dont need a Masthead anchor light by law, A light that illuminates the cockpit is far more effective in terms of safety at night as the visible shape is larger. You can get many lights (I would go LED...and run it up the back stay or elsewhere. I use the bebe electronics light with a 15 ft wire and cigarette male end. Uses next to nothing I run it up 1/2 to the spreaders with a line. Can see the boat for miles. reg: <http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/> http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/ I would not waste my money on getting the mast head light replaced while in transit. Do next time you go up the mast, or the mast comes down. Best of luck. /ch On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:57 PM, r good < <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> my… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> > wrote: So, why would a 5watt small bayonet base bulb and its replacement burn out in a masthead anchor light and could a 10 watt replacement be expected to do any better/.,\ reggie -- /ch -- /ch -- /ch

Well that was my question wasn't it. Has anyone seen an official document from the Coast Guard? I don't mind buying another sailing book, I only have 2 bookcases full of them. Though I'm ashamed that in 30 years of sailing and collecting books about it I have missed the really important one. You apparently do have the official answer but are unwilling to share it. I can think of at least 8 boats that I've sailed on that do not have an OEM anchor light, they didn't come with any anchor light from the factory. I think that I have only anchored a couple of times in someone's boat that had a masthead mounted anchor light, and I'm not sure that it was OEM. Only recently have I been hearing people say that the only place for the light is on top of the masthead since that's the only place it isn't obscured, so I was curious if something had changed, or if people that had only sailed on newer boats and had never seen anything else were making up reasons for it being there. In 20 years of sailing my friend's Cal 34 we were never hassled about the bare car tail light with zip cord soldered to it that was held on the backstay by a loop tied in the wire, so this isn't about being hassled. OEM might not mean squat. A drunk powerboater that hit my club's Islander 26 some years ago got out of most the charges against him when his lawyers had the boat surveyed to determine that the factory installed OEM runing lights did not meet Colreg requirements. As an aside, until the 1990s there were no official Coast Guard certified lights for recreational boats. Now new boats manufactured after that date, if lights are installed, must be USCG certified. John From: BRIAN HESS <bh… [at] msn.com> To: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com>; "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com " <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Hey folks, What I've noticed is that this topic never seems to end on this group. I think that someone needs to go to the coast guard and get the regulations from an active duty station like the one we have in Seattle. The answer you seek is in the Seamanship Guidelines approved by the USCG. It is up to date and you can get it from West Marine for about 50 bucks, the best money I ever spent, second only to the Navy's "Seamanship" and "Basic Military Requirements" You will find that the rules very seldom change. An anchorage light is placed in the same place it has been since they were invented. Don't be offended by what I'm going to say because the following is just common sense and logic. It is just getting irritating that our email gets plugged up with the same redundant question about an anchorage light. Many of you in this forum have been sailing for decades... Some of you since before I was born---and I'm going to be the dreaded 40 next year. We all know that being the owner of a vessel and using it after dark should mean that you would know the answer to this question, and if you have to repair or replace your faulty mast or equipment that you would just buy the same basic gear that your vessel was designed with. If the coast guard is giving you a hard time about your lighting, and it is something that you have changed about your mast or fixture then you should probably change it back. I have the original masthead light that was with my boat from the factory when the vessel was constructed in 1977. I use my vessel in waters that are patrolled by Navy and Coast Guard patrol boats and never get harassed, and that includes the sub base. One thing that I have learned over the years about boating is that if you just leave things as stock as possible when making upgrades, you will less likely run into equipment failure and you won't be harassed by the Coasties. Also, anchoring in an area that is close enough to shore and deep enough not to leave you high and dry in the am if the tide goes out while you're sleeping would also be a good way to avoid issues over anchor lights. Understand that this is only my opinion and based on my experience of boating in the Hood Canal and Puget Sound. If you use common sense when selecting an anchorage, you anchor light--however inadequate you may think it is or inept that your boat's architect was--will be the least of you worries if you anchor away from shipping lanes--the main reason why sailboats and mast-ed vessels have systems like this.. I notice that many sailors want to customize their lighting and rigging to make the vessel look and respond the way they want it to. Much of the time all they end up doing is making a simple problem much more complicated. Its like the rigging---the more sheets and sails you rig the more complicated it is to single hand in an emergency. Buy the right books approved by the USCG. Read them cover to cover and keep them on board as a reference. Don't change things on your boat if you have doubts about you or somebody's safety. Take a boater's course and get a license. Do these things as I have, you will enjoy boating much more. You will also spend much less money in the long run. Have a great day ship mates, and smooth-following seas. ;) Brian Hess "Vegvisir" Port Orchard, WA From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:35:47 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light I'm curious, has anyone found an official document or response that an anchor light in the rigging is not legal? I found a reference to much older rules that described the anchor light in the rigging. If it is not legal then your masthead steaming light obscured by the rolled up jib isn't legal. How can the anchor lights described for a large vessel ever be legal? The mast for the higher forward anchor light will obscure the lower aft anchor light. Annapolis Book of Seamanship states that a light on top of the mast or a light hanging from the headstay are the options for anchoring lights. For a perfect point source, if my light is 10 feet away from my mast that's 2 degrees obscured. My boat can't swing at anchor more than +/-1 degree for me not to be seen. At 1000 feet out the other vessel only has to travel 35 feet sideways to be able to see the light. At 15 feet away from the mast it's only +/-0.6 degrees. John ---------------- From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Perhaps these two references may be of help: http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/4_2_b.php www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/ <http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/> USCGMinReq.pdf My read is that you do not require the light to be placed on the masthead. /ch On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Rich Beliveau <ri… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:ri… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: We have this issue with the cg all the time. It has to be 360 dgr visible so hanging lights don't qualify. I almost ran a 41 Morgan over last year coming back from a night dive. He was properly lit with a top mast anchor light that blends wonderfully with the stars. Thank god for good toys on the boat as I picked him up on radar. I run 2 lights (not legal) but it keeps the cg off your back. One proper, one realistic. Rich On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:03 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ch… [at] gmail.com> > wrote: Comments in line..... On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> hu… [at] bah.com <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> > wrote: Chris, I think the US law says 360 degree visibility, which the lower lamp sort of does not provide. Misunderstanding I think Charlie...was suggesting a separate anchor light from Bebe Electronics or similar as the immediate solution as its the least work. Can be hung from anywhere as long as it meets USCG requirements. I've always thought it asinine that anchor lights should be at the masthead. One is riding around an anchorage looking 40-50 feet into the air instead of paying attention to hulls in the water that one could ram. I use a lower hanging lamp as well. Attach a feeder line to it and a halyard. Run it yp a ways, and then tie the feeder out far enough that the lamp won't bounce off the mast or anything like that. Cheers Charlie From: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:33 PM To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Corrosion in the fitting shorting out the bulb. You dont need a Masthead anchor light by law, A light that illuminates the cockpit is far more effective in terms of safety at night as the visible shape is larger. You can get many lights (I would go LED...and run it up the back stay or elsewhere. I use the bebe electronics light with a 15 ft wire and cigarette male end. Uses next to nothing I run it up 1/2 to the spreaders with a line. Can see the boat for miles. reg: <http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/> http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/ I would not waste my money on getting the mast head light replaced while in transit. Do next time you go up the mast, or the mast comes down. Best of luck. /ch On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:57 PM, r good < <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> my… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> > wrote: So, why would a 5watt small bayonet base bulb and its replacement burn out in a masthead anchor light and could a 10 watt replacement be expected to do any better/.,\ reggie -- /ch -- /ch -- /ch ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Why buy a book when the stuff is all on line. Here's a pdf version. See the section on lighting and then the associated annex. Also check the definitions as masthead has its own description. www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf Best regards /ch On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 11:57 AM, John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Well that was my question wasn't it. Has anyone seen an official document > from the Coast Guard? I don't mind buying another sailing book, I only have > 2 bookcases full of them. Though I'm ashamed that in 30 years of sailing > and collecting books about it I have missed the really important one. You > apparently do have the official answer but are unwilling to share it. > I can think of at least 8 boats that I've sailed on that do not have an OEM > anchor light, they didn't come with any anchor light from the factory. I > think that I have only anchored a couple of times in someone's boat that had > a masthead mounted anchor light, and I'm not sure that it was OEM. Only > recently have I been hearing people say that the only place for the light is > on top of the masthead since that's the only place it isn't obscured, so I > was curious if something had changed, or if people that had only sailed on > newer boats and had never seen anything else were making up reasons for it > being there. > > In 20 years of sailing my friend's Cal 34 we were never hassled about the > bare car tail light with zip cord soldered to it that was held on the > backstay by a loop tied in the wire, so this isn't about being hassled. > > OEM might not mean squat. A drunk powerboater that hit my club's Islander > 26 some years ago got out of most the charges against him when his lawyers > had the boat surveyed to determine that the factory installed OEM runing > lights did not meet Colreg requirements. > > As an aside, until the 1990s there were no official Coast Guard certified > lights for recreational boats. Now new boats manufactured after that date, > if lights are installed, must be USCG certified. > > John > > ------------------------------ > *From:* BRIAN HESS <bh… [at] msn.com> > *To:* John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com>; "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com " < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:06 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light > > Hey folks, > > What I've noticed is that this topic never seems to end on this group. I > think that someone needs to go to the coast guard and get the regulations > from an active duty station like the one we have in Seattle. > > The answer you seek is in the Seamanship Guidelines approved by the USCG. > It is up to date and you can get it from West Marine for about 50 bucks, the > best money I ever spent, second only to the Navy's "Seamanship" and "Basic > Military Requirements" > > You will find that the rules very seldom change. An anchorage light is > placed in the same place it has been since they were invented. > > Don't be offended by what I'm going to say because the following is just > common sense and logic. > > It is just getting irritating that our email gets plugged up with the same > redundant question about an anchorage light. Many of you in this forum have > been sailing for decades... Some of you since before I was born---and I'm > going to be the dreaded 40 next year. We all know that being the owner of a > vessel and using it after dark should mean that you would know the answer to > this question, and if you have to repair or replace your faulty mast or > equipment that you would just buy the same basic gear that your vessel was > designed with. If the coast guard is giving you a hard time about your > lighting, and it is something that you have changed about your mast or > fixture then you should probably change it back. > > I have the original masthead light that was with my boat from the factory > when the vessel was constructed in 1977. I use my vessel in waters that are > patrolled by Navy and Coast Guard patrol boats and never get harassed, and > that includes the sub base. One thing that I have learned over the years > about boating is that if you just leave things as stock as possible when > making upgrades, you will less likely run into equipment failure and you > won't be harassed by the Coasties. Also, anchoring in an area that is close > enough to shore and deep enough not to leave you high and dry in the am if > the tide goes out while you're sleeping would also be a good way to avoid > issues over anchor lights. > > Understand that this is only my opinion and based on my experience of > boating in the Hood Canal and Puget Sound. If you use common sense when > selecting an anchorage, you anchor light--however inadequate you may think > it is or inept that your boat's architect was--will be the least of you > worries if you anchor away from shipping lanes--the main reason why > sailboats and mast-ed vessels have systems like this.. I notice that many > sailors want to customize their lighting and rigging to make the vessel look > and respond the way they want it to. Much of the time all they end up doing > is making a simple problem much more complicated. Its like the rigging---the > more sheets and sails you rig the more complicated it is to single hand in > an emergency. > > Buy the right books approved by the USCG. Read them cover to cover and keep > them on board as a reference. Don't change things on your boat if you have > doubts about you or somebody's safety. Take a boater's course and get a > license. Do these things as I have, you will enjoy boating much more. You > will also spend much less money in the long run. > > Have a great day ship mates, and smooth-following seas. ;) > > Brian Hess > "Vegvisir" > Port Orchard, WA > > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:35:47 > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light > > > > > > > > I'm curious, has anyone found an official document or response that an > anchor light in the rigging is not legal? I found a reference to much older > rules that described the anchor light in the rigging. If it is not legal > then your masthead steaming light obscured by the rolled up jib isn't > legal. How can the anchor lights described for a large vessel ever be > legal? The mast for the higher forward anchor light will obscure the lower > aft anchor light. Annapolis Book of Seamanship states that a light on top > of the mast or a light hanging from the headstay are the options for > anchoring lights. > > > > For a perfect point source, if my light is 10 feet away from my mast that's > 2 degrees obscured. My boat can't swing at anchor more than +/-1 degree > for me not to be seen. At 1000 feet out the other vessel only has to travel > 35 feet sideways to be able to see the light. At 15 feet away from the mast > it's only +/-0.6 degrees. > > > John > > > > > > ---------------- > From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light > > > > > Perhaps these two references may be of help: > > http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/4_2_b.php > > www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/ < > http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/> USCGMinReq.pdf > > My read is that you do not require the light to be placed on the masthead. > > /ch > > > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Rich Beliveau <ri… [at] yahoo.com<mailto: > ri… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > We have this issue with the cg all the time. It has to be 360 dgr visible > so hanging lights don't qualify. I almost ran a 41 Morgan over last year > coming back from a night dive. He was properly lit with a top mast anchor > light that blends wonderfully with the stars. Thank god for good toys on the > boat as I picked him up on radar. I run 2 lights (not legal) but it keeps > the cg off your back. One proper, one realistic. > > > Rich > > > > > > > > On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:03 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com<mailto: > ch… [at] gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > Comments in line..... > > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < <mailto: > hu… [at] bah.com> hu… [at] bah.com <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > Chris, I think the US law says 360 degree visibility, which the lower lamp > sort of does not provide. > > Misunderstanding I think Charlie...was suggesting a separate anchor light > from Bebe Electronics or similar as the immediate solution as its the least > work. Can be hung from anywhere as long as it meets USCG requirements. > > > > > > > I've always thought it asinine that anchor lights should be at the > masthead. One is riding around an anchorage looking 40-50 feet into the air > instead of paying attention to hulls in the water that one could ram. I use > a lower hanging lamp as well. Attach a feeder line to it and a halyard. > Run it yp a ways, and then tie the feeder out far enough that the lamp > won't bounce off the mast or anything like that. > > Cheers > Charlie > > > > From: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of chris123 > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:33 PM > To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light > > > > > Corrosion in the fitting shorting out the bulb. You dont need a Masthead > anchor light by law, A light that illuminates the cockpit is far more > effective in terms of safety at night as the visible shape is larger. You > can get many lights (I would go LED...and run it up the back stay or > elsewhere. > > I use the bebe electronics light with a 15 ft wire and cigarette male end. > Uses next to nothing I run it up 1/2 to the spreaders with a line. Can see > the boat for miles. > > reg: <http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/> > http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/ > > I would not waste my money on getting the mast head light replaced while in > transit. Do next time you go up the mast, or the mast comes down. > > Best of luck. > > /ch > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:57 PM, r good < <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> > my… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > So, why would a 5watt small bayonet base bulb and its replacement burn out > in a masthead anchor light and could a 10 watt replacement be expected to do > any better/.,\ > reggie > > > > > -- > /ch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > /ch > > > > > > > > > -- > /ch > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- /ch

@John, My vessels both have masthead lights mounted above the spreaders on the forward portion of the mast. I have not changed either of them simply because they work fine, and even when the boat is sailing underway, the light is cast on the sta'syl, making it even more visible making the top half glow. Now if you had carbon fiber sails, i could see that being an issue and an upgrade on the masthead would probably be the logical course of action. the Seamanship Guidelines approved by the USCG (and I have the most recent edition) says that newer boats are to have installed a tricolor lamp on the top of the mast. The tricolor is to be turned on while the boat is in motion whether by motor or by sail, and when at anchor, only the white light is to be turned on on the mast. the stern light should be an all around light and be turned on optionally at anchor--but not necessary. I would give you the exact bibliography, but I have the book on the boat right now. I use all my running light when I'm at anchor until I'm ready to turn in for the night, then I just run the masthead by itself. I have a small solar powered light that I taped to the manrail on the stern--it is a bright LED. When i was in the Navy, I used to do a lot of lookout watches on the aircraft carrier. The point of having bow, mast, and stern lights was so that we could determine what direction, the bearing, and distance of a vessel underway at night time. One chart that i recently saw online somewhere shows that a sailboat that is underway may light the red/green bow light, the tricolor Masthead, and the stern all at once, although the bow light is optional if the masthead is a tri-color. If the masthead is a single white light (like my OEM) then the bow light is required. The masthead tricolor not only indicates that the vessel is underway, but the height of the mast as well--to the lookout watches on larger ships. This is a fairly recent change to the regs, the use of the USCG approved tricolor lamps in combination with bow and stern lights, but I'm sure that the BMR and Seamanship NAVEDTRAs are more than likely exactly the same as they were when I joined 20 years ago, and when I last saw them again 10 years ago--and the USCG very seldom changes the rules, they've remained pretty consistent over the years. Anchor lights--when required by the USCG regs--have always been required on top of the mast. But if the OEM lights are functional, they are acceptable, and both vessels that I've owned were pre-1980. I'm looking into a 28' Catamaran that is a 1977 custom built vessel, that was once surveyed and approved by the USCG--it's anchor light is mounted in the same spot as my American Mariner 7.5 and Ranger 20. I once owned a Cal 30, and her running lights were in even stranger places than the ones on my newer boats. She was built in 1963 and had no factory stern light, no bow lights, but the red and green lights were mounted on the sides of the upper salon just forward of the cockpit. The previous owner put a masthead on the top and it was just a single white light all-around fixture. To make the boat legal, i had to put a clip on red/green light on the pulpit and a clip on white light on the stern manrail. I know sailors around here in WA that use spreader lights that point down to the deck because of safety concerns with fog. I just think it is amazing how many times this topic comes up in this group. I wonder how many people are having the same issue that HAVEN'T asked about it, or will ask about it before moving on to another topic. Just in the last few months it's been a real important topic for a lot of sailors in this list and also on one other that I am a member of for the Ranger 20. Has the someone other than the USCG recent posted something about this on a website somewhere and it's confusing people? So you are just as curious about the confused remarks of everyone else. . lol. . . as i am about the number of people continuously bringing up the topic! LOL. . . we may be in the same boat my friend. Sorry if the syntax of my previous post on this thread seemed obtuse in any way. Sometimes trying to convey a message in text kind of skews the meaning and intent of it. I'm not trying to come across as a know-it-all prick, even though I may act like one from time to time! here are some links you'll likely find of interest: Start on Page 50 of the following manual-it gives a fairly straight forward description of lights: http://www.scribd.com/doc/17907683/Sailing-and-Seamanship A few NAVEDTRA courses I took on active duty: http://www.scribd.com/doc/7842453/US-Navy-Course-NAVEDTRA-14325-Basic-Military-Requirements http://www.scribd.com/doc/24854640/US-Navy-Course-Seaman-NAVEDTRA-14067 http://www.scribd.com/doc/14028956/NAVEDTRA12966NAVAL-ORIENTATION No whales or sea otters were harmed in the typing of this message. . . . Brian To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ca… [at] yahoo.com Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:57:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Well that was my question wasn't it. Has anyone seen an official document from the Coast Guard? I don't mind buying another sailing book, I only have 2 bookcases full of them. Though I'm ashamed that in 30 years of sailing and collecting books about it I have missed the really important one. You apparently do have the official answer but are unwilling to share it. I can think of at least 8 boats that I've sailed on that do not have an OEM anchor light, they didn't come with any anchor light from the factory. I think that I have only anchored a couple of times in someone's boat that had a masthead mounted anchor light, and I'm not sure that it was OEM. Only recently have I been hearing people say that the only place for the light is on top of the masthead since that's the only place it isn't obscured, so I was curious if something had changed, or if people that had only sailed on newer boats and had never seen anything else were making up reasons for it being there. In 20 years of sailing my friend's Cal 34 we were never hassled about the bare car tail light with zip cord soldered to it that was held on the backstay by a loop tied in the wire, so this isn't about being hassled. OEM might not mean squat. A drunk powerboater that hit my club's Islander 26 some years ago got out of most the charges against him when his lawyers had the boat surveyed to determine that the factory installed OEM runing lights did not meet Colreg requirements. As an aside, until the 1990s there were no official Coast Guard certified lights for recreational boats. Now new boats manufactured after that date, if lights are installed, must be USCG certified. John From: BRIAN HESS <bh… [at] msn.com> To: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com>; "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com " <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Hey folks, What I've noticed is that this topic never seems to end on this group. I think that someone needs to go to the coast guard and get the regulations from an active duty station like the one we have in Seattle. The answer you seek is in the Seamanship Guidelines approved by the USCG. It is up to date and you can get it from West Marine for about 50 bucks, the best money I ever spent, second only to the Navy's "Seamanship" and "Basic Military Requirements" You will find that the rules very seldom change. An anchorage light is placed in the same place it has been since they were invented. Don't be offended by what I'm going to say because the following is just common sense and logic. It is just getting irritating that our email gets plugged up with the same redundant question about an anchorage light. Many of you in this forum have been sailing for decades... Some of you since before I was born---and I'm going to be the dreaded 40 next year. We all know that being the owner of a vessel and using it after dark should mean that you would know the answer to this question, and if you have to repair or replace your faulty mast or equipment that you would just buy the same basic gear that your vessel was designed with. If the coast guard is giving you a hard time about your lighting, and it is something that you have changed about your mast or fixture then you should probably change it back. I have the original masthead light that was with my boat from the factory when the vessel was constructed in 1977. I use my vessel in waters that are patrolled by Navy and Coast Guard patrol boats and never get harassed, and that includes the sub base. One thing that I have learned over the years about boating is that if you just leave things as stock as possible when making upgrades, you will less likely run into equipment failure and you won't be harassed by the Coasties. Also, anchoring in an area that is close enough to shore and deep enough not to leave you high and dry in the am if the tide goes out while you're sleeping would also be a good way to avoid issues over anchor lights. Understand that this is only my opinion and based on my experience of boating in the Hood Canal and Puget Sound. If you use common sense when selecting an anchorage, you anchor light--however inadequate you may think it is or inept that your boat's architect was--will be the least of you worries if you anchor away from shipping lanes--the main reason why sailboats and mast-ed vessels have systems like this.. I notice that many sailors want to customize their lighting and rigging to make the vessel look and respond the way they want it to. Much of the time all they end up doing is making a simple problem much more complicated. Its like the rigging---the more sheets and sails you rig the more complicated it is to single hand in an emergency. Buy the right books approved by the USCG. Read them cover to cover and keep them on board as a reference. Don't change things on your boat if you have doubts about you or somebody's safety. Take a boater's course and get a license. Do these things as I have, you will enjoy boating much more. You will also spend much less money in the long run. Have a great day ship mates, and smooth-following seas. ;) Brian Hess "Vegvisir" Port Orchard, WA From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:35:47 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light I'm curious, has anyone found an official document or response that an anchor light in the rigging is not legal? I found a reference to much older rules that described the anchor light in the rigging. If it is not legal then your masthead steaming light obscured by the rolled up jib isn't legal. How can the anchor lights described for a large vessel ever be legal? The mast for the higher forward anchor light will obscure the lower aft anchor light. Annapolis Book of Seamanship states that a light on top of the mast or a light hanging from the headstay are the options for anchoring lights. For a perfect point source, if my light is 10 feet away from my mast that's 2 degrees obscured. My boat can't swing at anchor more than +/-1 degree for me not to be seen. At 1000 feet out the other vessel only has to travel 35 feet sideways to be able to see the light. At 15 feet away from the mast it's only +/-0.6 degrees. John ---------------- From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Perhaps these two references may be of help: http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/4_2_b.php www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/ <http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/> USCGMinReq.pdf My read is that you do not require the light to be placed on the masthead. /ch On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Rich Beliveau <ri… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:ri… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: We have this issue with the cg all the time. It has to be 360 dgr visible so hanging lights don't qualify. I almost ran a 41 Morgan over last year coming back from a night dive. He was properly lit with a top mast anchor light that blends wonderfully with the stars. Thank god for good toys on the boat as I picked him up on radar. I run 2 lights (not legal) but it keeps the cg off your back. One proper, one realistic. Rich On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:03 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ch… [at] gmail.com> > wrote: Comments in line..... On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> hu… [at] bah.com <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> > wrote: Chris, I think the US law says 360 degree visibility, which the lower lamp sort of does not provide. Misunderstanding I think Charlie...was suggesting a separate anchor light from Bebe Electronics or similar as the immediate solution as its the least work. Can be hung from anywhere as long as it meets USCG requirements. I've always thought it asinine that anchor lights should be at the masthead. One is riding around an anchorage looking 40-50 feet into the air instead of paying attention to hulls in the water that one could ram. I use a lower hanging lamp as well. Attach a feeder line to it and a halyard. Run it yp a ways, and then tie the feeder out far enough that the lamp won't bounce off the mast or anything like that. Cheers Charlie From: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:33 PM To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Corrosion in the fitting shorting out the bulb. You dont need a Masthead anchor light by law, A light that illuminates the cockpit is far more effective in terms of safety at night as the visible shape is larger. You can get many lights (I would go LED...and run it up the back stay or elsewhere. I use the bebe electronics light with a 15 ft wire and cigarette male end. Uses next to nothing I run it up 1/2 to the spreaders with a line. Can see the boat for miles. reg: <http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/> http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/ I would not waste my money on getting the mast head light replaced while in transit. Do next time you go up the mast, or the mast comes down. Best of luck. /ch On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:57 PM, r good < <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> my… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> > wrote: So, why would a 5watt small bayonet base bulb and its replacement burn out in a masthead anchor light and could a 10 watt replacement be expected to do any better/.,\ reggie -- /ch -- /ch -- /ch ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

What about using one of those pathway lights, the kind with the PV panel on top? you could put one at each end of the boat. You can by them for 99cents each, at the 99cent store. Or, go for one a brighter, more expensive one from say, OSH? I'd mount it somewhere above deck level. Masthead is way too high. Jerry From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Well that was my question wasn't it. Has anyone seen an official document from the Coast Guard? I don't mind buying another sailing book, I only have 2 bookcases full of them. Though I'm ashamed that in 30 years of sailing and collecting books about it I have missed the really important one. You apparently do have the official answer but are unwilling to share it. I can think of at least 8 boats that I've sailed on that do not have an OEM anchor light, they didn't come with any anchor light from the factory. I think that I have only anchored a couple of times in someone's boat that had a masthead mounted anchor light, and I'm not sure that it was OEM. Only recently have I been hearing people say that the only place for the light is on top of the masthead since that's the only place it isn't obscured, so I was curious if something had changed, or if people that had only sailed on newer boats and had never seen anything else were making up reasons for it being there. In 20 years of sailing my friend's Cal 34 we were never hassled about the bare car tail light with zip cord soldered to it that was held on the backstay by a loop tied in the wire, so this isn't about being hassled. OEM might not mean squat. A drunk powerboater that hit my club's Islander 26 some years ago got out of most the charges against him when his lawyers had the boat surveyed to determine that the factory installed OEM runing lights did not meet Colreg requirements. As an aside, until the 1990s there were no official Coast Guard certified lights for recreational boats. Now new boats manufactured after that date, if lights are installed, must be USCG certified. John From: BRIAN HESS <bh… [at] msn.com> To: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com>; "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com " <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Hey folks, What I've noticed is that this topic never seems to end on this group. I think that someone needs to go to the coast guard and get the regulations from an active duty station like the one we have in Seattle. The answer you seek is in the Seamanship Guidelines approved by the USCG. It is up to date and you can get it from West Marine for about 50 bucks, the best money I ever spent, second only to the Navy's "Seamanship" and "Basic Military Requirements" You will find that the rules very seldom change. An anchorage light is placed in the same place it has been since they were invented. Don't be offended by what I'm going to say because the following is just common sense and logic. It is just getting irritating that our email gets plugged up with the same redundant question about an anchorage light. Many of you in this forum have been sailing for decades... Some of you since before I was born---and I'm going to be the dreaded 40 next year. We all know that being the owner of a vessel and using it after dark should mean that you would know the answer to this question, and if you have to repair or replace your faulty mast or equipment that you would just buy the same basic gear that your vessel was designed with. If the coast guard is giving you a hard time about your lighting, and it is something that you have changed about your mast or fixture then you should probably change it back. I have the original masthead light that was with my boat from the factory when the vessel was constructed in 1977. I use my vessel in waters that are patrolled by Navy and Coast Guard patrol boats and never get harassed, and that includes the sub base. One thing that I have learned over the years about boating is that if you just leave things as stock as possible when making upgrades, you will less likely run into equipment failure and you won't be harassed by the Coasties. Also, anchoring in an area that is close enough to shore and deep enough not to leave you high and dry in the am if the tide goes out while you're sleeping would also be a good way to avoid issues over anchor lights. Understand that this is only my opinion and based on my experience of boating in the Hood Canal and Puget Sound. If you use common sense when selecting an anchorage, you anchor light--however inadequate you may think it is or inept that your boat's architect was--will be the least of you worries if you anchor away from shipping lanes--the main reason why sailboats and mast-ed vessels have systems like this.. I notice that many sailors want to customize their lighting and rigging to make the vessel look and respond the way they want it to. Much of the time all they end up doing is making a simple problem much more complicated. Its like the rigging---the more sheets and sails you rig the more complicated it is to single hand in an emergency. Buy the right books approved by the USCG. Read them cover to cover and keep them on board as a reference. Don't change things on your boat if you have doubts about you or somebody's safety. Take a boater's course and get a license. Do these things as I have, you will enjoy boating much more. You will also spend much less money in the long run. Have a great day ship mates, and smooth-following seas. ;) Brian Hess "Vegvisir" Port Orchard, WA From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:35:47 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light I'm curious, has anyone found an official document or response that an anchor light in the rigging is not legal? I found a reference to much older rules that described the anchor light in the rigging. If it is not legal then your masthead steaming light obscured by the rolled up jib isn't legal. How can the anchor lights described for a large vessel ever be legal? The mast for the higher forward anchor light will obscure the lower aft anchor light. Annapolis Book of Seamanship states that a light on top of the mast or a light hanging from the headstay are the options for anchoring lights. For a perfect point source, if my light is 10 feet away from my mast that's 2 degrees obscured. My boat can't swing at anchor more than +/-1 degree for me not to be seen. At 1000 feet out the other vessel only has to travel 35 feet sideways to be able to see the light. At 15 feet away from the mast it's only +/-0.6 degrees. John ---------------- From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Perhaps these two references may be of help: http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/4_2_b.php www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/ <http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/> USCGMinReq.pdf My read is that you do not require the light to be placed on the masthead. /ch On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Rich Beliveau <ri… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:ri… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: We have this issue with the cg all the time. It has to be 360 dgr visible so hanging lights don't qualify. I almost ran a 41 Morgan over last year coming back from a night dive. He was properly lit with a top mast anchor light that blends wonderfully with the stars. Thank god for good toys on the boat as I picked him up on radar. I run 2 lights (not legal) but it keeps the cg off your back. One proper, one realistic. Rich On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:03 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ch… [at] gmail.com> > wrote: Comments in line..... On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> hu… [at] bah.com <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> > wrote: Chris, I think the US law says 360 degree visibility, which the lower lamp sort of does not provide. Misunderstanding I think Charlie...was suggesting a separate anchor light from Bebe Electronics or similar as the immediate solution as its the least work. Can be hung from anywhere as long as it meets USCG requirements. I've always thought it asinine that anchor lights should be at the masthead. One is riding around an anchorage looking 40-50 feet into the air instead of paying attention to hulls in the water that one could ram. I use a lower hanging lamp as well. Attach a feeder line to it and a halyard. Run it yp a ways, and then tie the feeder out far enough that the lamp won't bounce off the mast or anything like that. Cheers Charlie From: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:33 PM To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Corrosion in the fitting shorting out the bulb. You dont need a Masthead anchor light by law, A light that illuminates the cockpit is far more effective in terms of safety at night as the visible shape is larger. You can get many lights (I would go LED...and run it up the back stay or elsewhere. I use the bebe electronics light with a 15 ft wire and cigarette male end. Uses next to nothing I run it up 1/2 to the spreaders with a line. Can see the boat for miles. reg: <http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/> http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/ I would not waste my money on getting the mast head light replaced while in transit. Do next time you go up the mast, or the mast comes down. Best of luck. /ch On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:57 PM, r good < <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> my… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> > wrote: So, why would a 5watt small bayonet base bulb and its replacement burn out in a masthead anchor light and could a 10 watt replacement be expected to do any better/.,\ reggie -- /ch -- /ch -- /ch ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

I am limiting my response to anchor lights, which I think started this thread, and specifically to the one-light option for boats less than 50 meters in length. The requirements for anchor lights are in Rule 30: Lights and Shapes RULE 30 Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground (a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen: (i) in the fore part, an all-around white light or one ball; and (ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light. (b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule. (c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters or more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks. The requirements for all-around lights are in Annex I: § 84.17 Horizontal sectors . . . . (b) All-round lights shall be so located as not to be obscured by masts, topmasts or structures within angular sectors of more than 6 degrees, except anchor lights prescribed in Rule 30, which need not be placed at an impracticable height above the hull. (c) If it is impracticable to comply with paragraph (b)(i) of this section by exhibiting only one all-round light, two all-round lights shall be used suitably positioned or screened so that they appear, as far as practicable, as one light at a distance of one mile.” (Note that the numbering in Annex I above is from my hard copy of the Navigation Rules published by the USCG and differs somewhat from the numbering in the online version cited previously.) Thus, a suitable all-around light at the top of the mast would always comply unless it is obscured more than 6 degrees by other equipment at the top of the mast. (Note that references to a “masthead light” in the rules are not referring to anchor lights. A masthead light has the lighting pattern of the steaming light and is not an all-around light and is not usually mounted at the top of the mast.) The concern expressed earlier about poor close-in visibility of lights at the top of masts can be addressed by also turning on a light that will illuminate the deck, per Rule 30(c). Also, a suitable light in the rigging would be acceptable if it was not obscured by more than 6 degrees. What is not clear to me from the rules is whether (or when) the top of the mast is considered to be “an impractical height above the hull” so as to exempt anchor lights mounted in the rigging from the maximum 6-degree obstruction requirement per Annex I, § 84.17(b) or whether that would instead require two all-around lights located close together so as to eliminate the 6-degree obstruction pursuant to § 84.17(c). I suspect the latter. There is a note in my hard copy of Annex I explaining that two lights mounted no more than 1.28 meters apart will appear to the naked eye as one light at a distance of one mile. Harleigh Ewell Cal 31 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 1:52 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Why buy a book when the stuff is all on line. Here's a pdf version. See the section on lighting and then the associated annex. Also check the definitions as masthead has its own description. www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf Best regards /ch On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 11:57 AM, John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Well that was my question wasn't it. Has anyone seen an official document from the Coast Guard? I don't mind buying another sailing book, I only have 2 bookcases full of them. Though I'm ashamed that in 30 years of sailing and collecting books about it I have missed the really important one. You apparently do have the official answer but are unwilling to share it. I can think of at least 8 boats that I've sailed on that do not have an OEM anchor light, they didn't come with any anchor light from the factory. I think that I have only anchored a couple of times in someone's boat that had a masthead mounted anchor light, and I'm not sure that it was OEM. Only recently have I been hearing people say that the only place for the light is on top of the masthead since that's the only place it isn't obscured, so I was curious if something had changed, or if people that had only sailed on newer boats and had never seen anything else were making up reasons for it being there. In 20 years of sailing my friend's Cal 34 we were never hassled about the bare car tail light with zip cord soldered to it that was held on the backstay by a loop tied in the wire, so this isn't about being hassled. OEM might not mean squat. A drunk powerboater that hit my club's Islander 26 some years ago got out of most the charges against him when his lawyers had the boat surveyed to determine that the factory installed OEM runing lights did not meet Colreg requirements. As an aside, until the 1990s there were no official Coast Guard certified lights for recreational boats. Now new boats manufactured after that date, if lights are installed, must be USCG certified. John _____ From: BRIAN HESS <bh… [at] msn.com> To: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com>; "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com " <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Hey folks, What I've noticed is that this topic never seems to end on this group. I think that someone needs to go to the coast guard and get the regulations from an active duty station like the one we have in Seattle. The answer you seek is in the Seamanship Guidelines approved by the USCG. It is up to date and you can get it from West Marine for about 50 bucks, the best money I ever spent, second only to the Navy's "Seamanship" and "Basic Military Requirements" You will find that the rules very seldom change. An anchorage light is placed in the same place it has been since they were invented. Don't be offended by what I'm going to say because the following is just common sense and logic. It is just getting irritating that our email gets plugged up with the same redundant question about an anchorage light. Many of you in this forum have been sailing for decades... Some of you since before I was born---and I'm going to be the dreaded 40 next year. We all know that being the owner of a vessel and using it after dark should mean that you would know the answer to this question, and if you have to repair or replace your faulty mast or equipment that you would just buy the same basic gear that your vessel was designed with. If the coast guard is giving you a hard time about your lighting, and it is something that you have changed about your mast or fixture then you should probably change it back. I have the original masthead light that was with my boat from the factory when the vessel was constructed in 1977. I use my vessel in waters that are patrolled by Navy and Coast Guard patrol boats and never get harassed, and that includes the sub base. One thing that I have learned over the years about boating is that if you just leave things as stock as possible when making upgrades, you will less likely run into equipment failure and you won't be harassed by the Coasties. Also, anchoring in an area that is close enough to shore and deep enough not to leave you high and dry in the am if the tide goes out while you're sleeping would also be a good way to avoid issues over anchor lights. Understand that this is only my opinion and based on my experience of boating in the Hood Canal and Puget Sound. If you use common sense when selecting an anchorage, you anchor light--however inadequate you may think it is or inept that your boat's architect was--will be the least of you worries if you anchor away from shipping lanes--the main reason why sailboats and mast-ed vessels have systems like this.. I notice that many sailors want to customize their lighting and rigging to make the vessel look and respond the way they want it to. Much of the time all they end up doing is making a simple problem much more complicated. Its like the rigging---the more sheets and sails you rig the more complicated it is to single hand in an emergency. Buy the right books approved by the USCG. Read them cover to cover and keep them on board as a reference. Don't change things on your boat if you have doubts about you or somebody's safety. Take a boater's course and get a license. Do these things as I have, you will enjoy boating much more. You will also spend much less money in the long run. Have a great day ship mates, and smooth-following seas. ;) Brian Hess "Vegvisir" Port Orchard, WA From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:35:47 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light I'm curious, has anyone found an official document or response that an anchor light in the rigging is not legal? I found a reference to much older rules that described the anchor light in the rigging. If it is not legal then your masthead steaming light obscured by the rolled up jib isn't legal. How can the anchor lights described for a large vessel ever be legal? The mast for the higher forward anchor light will obscure the lower aft anchor light. Annapolis Book of Seamanship states that a light on top of the mast or a light hanging from the headstay are the options for anchoring lights. For a perfect point source, if my light is 10 feet away from my mast that's 2 degrees obscured. My boat can't swing at anchor more than +/-1 degree for me not to be seen. At 1000 feet out the other vessel only has to travel 35 feet sideways to be able to see the light. At 15 feet away from the mast it's only +/-0.6 degrees. John ---------------- From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Perhaps these two references may be of help: http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/4_2_b.php www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/ <http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/> USCGMinReq.pdf My read is that you do not require the light to be placed on the masthead. /ch On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Rich Beliveau <ri… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:ri… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: We have this issue with the cg all the time. It has to be 360 dgr visible so hanging lights don't qualify. I almost ran a 41 Morgan over last year coming back from a night dive. He was properly lit with a top mast anchor light that blends wonderfully with the stars. Thank god for good toys on the boat as I picked him up on radar. I run 2 lights (not legal) but it keeps the cg off your back. One proper, one realistic. Rich On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:03 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ch… [at] gmail.com> > wrote: Comments in line..... On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> hu… [at] bah.com <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> > wrote: Chris, I think the US law says 360 degree visibility, which the lower lamp sort of does not provide. Misunderstanding I think Charlie...was suggesting a separate anchor light from Bebe Electronics or similar as the immediate solution as its the least work. Can be hung from anywhere as long as it meets USCG requirements. I've always thought it asinine that anchor lights should be at the masthead. One is riding around an anchorage looking 40-50 feet into the air instead of paying attention to hulls in the water that one could ram. I use a lower hanging lamp as well. Attach a feeder line to it and a halyard. Run it yp a ways, and then tie the feeder out far enough that the lamp won't bounce off the mast or anything like that. Cheers Charlie From: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:33 PM To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Corrosion in the fitting shorting out the bulb. You dont need a Masthead anchor light by law, A light that illuminates the cockpit is far more effective in terms of safety at night as the visible shape is larger. You can get many lights (I would go LED...and run it up the back stay or elsewhere. I use the bebe electronics light with a 15 ft wire and cigarette male end. Uses next to nothing I run it up 1/2 to the spreaders with a line. Can see the boat for miles. reg: <http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/> http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/ I would not waste my money on getting the mast head light replaced while in transit. Do next time you go up the mast, or the mast comes down. Best of luck. /ch On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:57 PM, r good < <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> my… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> > wrote: So, why would a 5watt small bayonet base bulb and its replacement burn out in a masthead anchor light and could a 10 watt replacement be expected to do any better/.,\ reggie -- /ch -- /ch -- /ch ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links -- /ch

So IMHO, the original solution offered, that it is not necessary to replace the white light at the masthead (top of the mast) rather that a single 360 light that can do 3 miles or more suspended off the deck such as the ones offered bebi electronics (and uses 0.4amps) is a suitable solution for "anchoring" in continental US waters..and in full compliance with the colregs. /ch On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Harleigh Ewell <hp… [at] hpewell.com> wrote: > > > I am limiting my response to anchor lights, which I think started this > thread, and specifically to the one-light option for boats less than 50 > meters in length. The requirements for anchor lights are in Rule 30: >

Subject to the 6-degree limitation, which probably would prevent mounting the light close to a roller furled jib or below a main that is furled still on its mast track. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 6:58 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light So IMHO, the original solution offered, that it is not necessary to replace the white light at the masthead (top of the mast) rather that a single 360 light that can do 3 miles or more suspended off the deck such as the ones offered bebi electronics (and uses 0.4amps) is a suitable solution for "anchoring" in continental US waters..and in full compliance with the colregs. /ch On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Harleigh Ewell <hp… [at] hpewell.com> wrote: I am limiting my response to anchor lights, which I think started this thread, and specifically to the one-light option for boats less than 50 meters in length. The requirements for anchor lights are in Rule 30:

I typically use the same line that I run my courtesy flags up to the port spreader and found that running the light two thirds of the way up (I have 15 ft of cord, plus an extention to a DC plug) seems to provide the best all around illumination as it basically covers most of the deck with the build in down ward facing LED's If it interests you the source is here: http://www.bebi-electronics.com/ Most cruiser's I've met just love these lights as they are inexpensive, lifetime warranty, meet all the regs, and so bright you will never loose your boat in a loaded anchorage like Marathon at night. Best regards /ch

THANK YOU!! That is exactly what I was asking for. I have read through the annex sections before, but I was looking for something else and the obscured limits missed my attention. John From: Harleigh Ewell <hp… [at] hpewell.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:47 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] anchor light (b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters or more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks. (b) All-round lights shall be so located as not to be obscured by masts, topmasts or structures within angular sectors of more than 6 degrees, except anchor lights prescribed in Rule 30, which need not be placed at an impracticable height above the hull. (c) If it is impracticable to comply with paragraph (b)(i) of this section by exhibiting only one all-round light, two all-round lights shall be used suitably positioned or screened so that they appear, as far as practicable, as one light at a distance of one mile.” Harleigh Ewell Cal 31

What I have is the Aqua Signal hoisting light with a Dr. LED bulb in it. I'm perfectly happy with it. I was just trying to pin down whether the current internet wisdom of any anchor lights not at the masthead were illegal was true. See my other reply to Harleigh. This in white: From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light What about using one of those pathway lights, the kind with the PV panel on top? you could put one at each end of the boat. You can by them for 99cents each, at the 99cent store. Or, go for one a brighter, more expensive one from say, OSH? I'd mount it somewhere above deck level. Masthead is way too high. Jerry From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Well that was my question wasn't it. Has anyone seen an official document from the Coast Guard? I don't mind buying another sailing book, I only have 2 bookcases full of them. Though I'm ashamed that in 30 years of sailing and collecting books about it I have missed the really important one. You apparently do have the official answer but are unwilling to share it. I can think of at least 8 boats that I've sailed on that do not have an OEM anchor light, they didn't come with any anchor light from the factory. I think that I have only anchored a couple of times in someone's boat that had a masthead mounted anchor light, and I'm not sure that it was OEM. Only recently have I been hearing people say that the only place for the light is on top of the masthead since that's the only place it isn't obscured, so I was curious if something had changed, or if people that had only sailed on newer boats and had never seen anything else were making up reasons for it being there. In 20 years of sailing my friend's Cal 34 we were never hassled about the bare car tail light with zip cord soldered to it that was held on the backstay by a loop tied in the wire, so this isn't about being hassled. OEM might not mean squat. A drunk powerboater that hit my club's Islander 26 some years ago got out of most the charges against him when his lawyers had the boat surveyed to determine that the factory installed OEM runing lights did not meet Colreg requirements. As an aside, until the 1990s there were no official Coast Guard certified lights for recreational boats. Now new boats manufactured after that date, if lights are installed, must be USCG certified. John From: BRIAN HESS <bh… [at] msn.com> To: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com>; "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com " <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Hey folks, What I've noticed is that this topic never seems to end on this group. I think that someone needs to go to the coast guard and get the regulations from an active duty station like the one we have in Seattle. The answer you seek is in the Seamanship Guidelines approved by the USCG. It is up to date and you can get it from West Marine for about 50 bucks, the best money I ever spent, second only to the Navy's "Seamanship" and "Basic Military Requirements" You will find that the rules very seldom change. An anchorage light is placed in the same place it has been since they were invented. Don't be offended by what I'm going to say because the following is just common sense and logic. It is just getting irritating that our email gets plugged up with the same redundant question about an anchorage light. Many of you in this forum have been sailing for decades... Some of you since before I was born---and I'm going to be the dreaded 40 next year. We all know that being the owner of a vessel and using it after dark should mean that you would know the answer to this question, and if you have to repair or replace your faulty mast or equipment that you would just buy the same basic gear that your vessel was designed with. If the coast guard is giving you a hard time about your lighting, and it is something that you have changed about your mast or fixture then you should probably change it back. I have the original masthead light that was with my boat from the factory when the vessel was constructed in 1977. I use my vessel in waters that are patrolled by Navy and Coast Guard patrol boats and never get harassed, and that includes the sub base. One thing that I have learned over the years about boating is that if you just leave things as stock as possible when making upgrades, you will less likely run into equipment failure and you won't be harassed by the Coasties. Also, anchoring in an area that is close enough to shore and deep enough not to leave you high and dry in the am if the tide goes out while you're sleeping would also be a good way to avoid issues over anchor lights. Understand that this is only my opinion and based on my experience of boating in the Hood Canal and Puget Sound. If you use common sense when selecting an anchorage, you anchor light--however inadequate you may think it is or inept that your boat's architect was--will be the least of you worries if you anchor away from shipping lanes--the main reason why sailboats and mast-ed vessels have systems like this.. I notice that many sailors want to customize their lighting and rigging to make the vessel look and respond the way they want it to. Much of the time all they end up doing is making a simple problem much more complicated. Its like the rigging---the more sheets and sails you rig the more complicated it is to single hand in an emergency. Buy the right books approved by the USCG. Read them cover to cover and keep them on board as a reference. Don't change things on your boat if you have doubts about you or somebody's safety. Take a boater's course and get a license. Do these things as I have, you will enjoy boating much more. You will also spend much less money in the long run. Have a great day ship mates, and smooth-following seas. ;) Brian Hess "Vegvisir" Port Orchard, WA From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:35:47 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light I'm curious, has anyone found an official document or response that an anchor light in the rigging is not legal? I found a reference to much older rules that described the anchor light in the rigging. If it is not legal then your masthead steaming light obscured by the rolled up jib isn't legal. How can the anchor lights described for a large vessel ever be legal? The mast for the higher forward anchor light will obscure the lower aft anchor light. Annapolis Book of Seamanship states that a light on top of the mast or a light hanging from the headstay are the options for anchoring lights. For a perfect point source, if my light is 10 feet away from my mast that's 2 degrees obscured. My boat can't swing at anchor more than +/-1 degree for me not to be seen. At 1000 feet out the other vessel only has to travel 35 feet sideways to be able to see the light. At 15 feet away from the mast it's only +/-0.6 degrees. John ---------------- From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Perhaps these two references may be of help: http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/4_2_b.php www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/ <http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/> USCGMinReq.pdf My read is that you do not require the light to be placed on the masthead. /ch On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Rich Beliveau <ri… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:ri… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: We have this issue with the cg all the time. It has to be 360 dgr visible so hanging lights don't qualify. I almost ran a 41 Morgan over last year coming back from a night dive. He was properly lit with a top mast anchor light that blends wonderfully with the stars. Thank god for good toys on the boat as I picked him up on radar. I run 2 lights (not legal) but it keeps the cg off your back. One proper, one realistic. Rich On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:03 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ch… [at] gmail.com> > wrote: Comments in line..... On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> hu… [at] bah.com <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> > wrote: Chris, I think the US law says 360 degree visibility, which the lower lamp sort of does not provide. Misunderstanding I think Charlie...was suggesting a separate anchor light from Bebe Electronics or similar as the immediate solution as its the least work. Can be hung from anywhere as long as it meets USCG requirements. I've always thought it asinine that anchor lights should be at the masthead. One is riding around an anchorage looking 40-50 feet into the air instead of paying attention to hulls in the water that one could ram. I use a lower hanging lamp as well. Attach a feeder line to it and a halyard. Run it yp a ways, and then tie the feeder out far enough that the lamp won't bounce off the mast or anything like that. Cheers Charlie From: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:33 PM To: <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Corrosion in the fitting shorting out the bulb. You dont need a Masthead anchor light by law, A light that illuminates the cockpit is far more effective in terms of safety at night as the visible shape is larger. You can get many lights (I would go LED...and run it up the back stay or elsewhere. I use the bebe electronics light with a 15 ft wire and cigarette male end. Uses next to nothing I run it up 1/2 to the spreaders with a line. Can see the boat for miles. reg: <http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/> http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/led-anchor-lights/ I would not waste my money on getting the mast head light replaced while in transit. Do next time you go up the mast, or the mast comes down. Best of luck. /ch On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:57 PM, r good < <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> my… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> > wrote: So, why would a 5watt small bayonet base bulb and its replacement burn out in a masthead anchor light and could a 10 watt replacement be expected to do any better/.,\ reggie -- /ch -- /ch -- /ch ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

The following link is similar to what I used. I simply attached one like this to my mast-head. I do not know what the range is, but it lights up the Windex very well, and can easily be seen from a substantial distance, depending on how many other lights are around it. The LED fixture that I used was also able to be installed (with minor modification) into the Perko steaming light (below). LED was primarily useful in the steaming light because of the incredibly long life-span of these "bulbs". Both were installed in 2003, and still working fine. http://tinyurl.com/3bswaat<http://tinyurl.com/3bswaat> Perko steaming light: http://tinyurl.com/3etrdy4<http://tinyurl.com/3etrdy4> Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Harleigh Ewell<mailto:hp… [at] hpewell.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 5:28 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] anchor light Subject to the 6-degree limitation, which probably would prevent mounting the light close to a roller furled jib or below a main that is furled still on its mast track. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris123 Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 6:58 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] anchor light So IMHO, the original solution offered, that it is not necessary to replace the white light at the masthead (top of the mast) rather that a single 360 light that can do 3 miles or more suspended off the deck such as the ones offered bebi electronics (and uses 0.4amps) is a suitable solution for "anchoring" in continental US waters..and in full compliance with the colregs. /ch On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Harleigh Ewell <hp… [at] hpewell.com<mailto:hp… [at] hpewell.com>> wrote: I am limiting my response to anchor lights, which I think started this thread, and specifically to the one-light option for boats less than 50 meters in length. The requirements for anchor lights are in Rule 30: