Bowsprit

Anyone done a bowsprit/prod for a CAL 34? Next project on the never ending list...

I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. Allen

Allen, What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm tired of those sport boats passing me. Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. Allen

Hi Allen & Jerry You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. Happy Hunting, My Best, Mike From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit Allen, What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm tired of those sport boats passing me. Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. Allen

So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Allen & Jerry > You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating > certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 > took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot > asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. > With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit > may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the > Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. > Happy Hunting, > My Best, Mike > *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > Allen, > What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the > Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' > skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why > not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm > tired of those sport boats passing me. > Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe > get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! > Jerry > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 > inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to > back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I > would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. > > Allen > > > > > > > >

Hi Allen, Hi Allen, Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their considerable experience. If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that option. My Best, Mike From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >Hi Allen & Jerry > You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. > Happy Hunting, > My Best, Mike > >From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > > >Allen, > >What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm tired of those sport boats passing me. >Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! > >Jerry > > > >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > >I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. > > >Allen > > > > > >

I am considering a spinnaker of some sort. We have been racing in the Beer Can races and just recently in the Jessica Cup with Leda's old 150 handicap which would allow us to use a spinnaker but we don't. That is a disadvantage in light winds, and as on the Jessica Cup where there was a long reaching run and we had our 45 year old 150 up and it really didn't perform. We use that sail on a 20 ft pole downwind and that works well, but it has its problems. Our 150 is a little like an asymmetric in that we fly it from a spin halyard and gybe it forward of the forestay (and the luff). I think that is called an outside gybe. But since we don't have a sprit the sheets don't fall in the water and an outside gybe works great. Just cut the sheet and the sail flies in front of the boat like a flag and you move the boat around it and pull it in on the other side. The other thing the spinnaker can do is allow us to fly the 90 more often knowing we can put up the big sail. That is easier on the boat, which is a consideration as I spend a fair amount of time gluing it back together that would be a good thing. As you know, I have an old symmetric spinnaker and have been planning on using it. Talking to my sailmaker, he points out that the asymmetric would be easier to deal with and easier on the boat. Plus, given we do so well even without any spinnaker, it might be more than enough to be competitive. Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > ** > > > Hi Allen, > Hi Allen, > Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF > Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as > agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a > certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out > that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the > Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will > find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or > measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their > considerable experience. > If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you > may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing > more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. > You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an > asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that > option. > My Best, Mike > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other > words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? > > Allen > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > Hi Allen & Jerry > You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating > certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 > took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot > asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. > With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit > may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the > Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. > Happy Hunting, > My Best, Mike > *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > Allen, > What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the > Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' > skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why > not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm > tired of those sport boats passing me. > Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe > get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! > Jerry > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 > inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to > back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I > would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > >

not on a T-2. We show different ratings for 150, 170, and spinnaker. reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] gmail.com Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:50:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit I am considering a spinnaker of some sort. We have been racing in the Beer Can races and just recently in the Jessica Cup with Leda's old 150 handicap which would allow us to use a spinnaker but we don't. That is a disadvantage in light winds, and as on the Jessica Cup where there was a long reaching run and we had our 45 year old 150 up and it really didn't perform. We use that sail on a 20 ft pole downwind and that works well, but it has its problems. Our 150 is a little like an asymmetric in that we fly it from a spin halyard and gybe it forward of the forestay (and the luff). I think that is called an outside gybe. But since we don't have a sprit the sheets don't fall in the water and an outside gybe works great. Just cut the sheet and the sail flies in front of the boat like a flag and you move the boat around it and pull it in on the other side. The other thing the spinnaker can do is allow us to fly the 90 more often knowing we can put up the big sail. That is easier on the boat, which is a consideration as I spend a fair amount of time gluing it back together that would be a good thing. As you know, I have an old symmetric spinnaker and have been planning on using it. Talking to my sailmaker, he points out that the asymmetric would be easier to deal with and easier on the boat. Plus, given we do so well even without any spinnaker, it might be more than enough to be competitive. Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Allen, Hi Allen, Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their considerable experience. If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that option. My Best, Mike From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Allen & Jerry You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. Happy Hunting, My Best, Mike From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit Allen, What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm tired of those sport boats passing me. Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. Allen

Hi Allen, Why would the A-Shoot be "Easier on the Boat?" I'm confused! Does being easier on the boat or winning play into some plan? Do we race to win or for something else? My Best, Mike From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 12:35 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 150 rating equal spinnaker rating? not on a T-2. We show different ratings for 150, 170, and spinnaker. reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] gmail.com Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:50:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit I am considering a spinnaker of some sort. We have been racing in the Beer Can races and just recently in the Jessica Cup with Leda's old 150 handicap which would allow us to use a spinnaker but we don't. That is a disadvantage in light winds, and as on the Jessica Cup where there was a long reaching run and we had our 45 year old 150 up and it really didn't perform. We use that sail on a 20 ft pole downwind and that works well, but it has its problems. Our 150 is a little like an asymmetric in that we fly it from a spin halyard and gybe it forward of the forestay (and the luff). I think that is called an outside gybe. But since we don't have a sprit the sheets don't fall in the water and an outside gybe works great. Just cut the sheet and the sail flies in front of the boat like a flag and you move the boat around it and pull it in on the other side. The other thing the spinnaker can do is allow us to fly the 90 more often knowing we can put up the big sail. That is easier on the boat, which is a consideration as I spend a fair amount of time gluing it back together that would be a good thing. As you know, I have an old symmetric spinnaker and have been planning on using it. Talking to my sailmaker, he points out that the asymmetric would be easier to deal with and easier on the boat. Plus, given we do so well even without any spinnaker, it might be more than enough to be competitive. Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Hi Allen, > Hi Allen, > Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their considerable experience. > If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. > You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that option. > My Best, Mike >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > > >So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? > > >Allen > > >On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>Hi Allen & Jerry >> You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. >> Happy Hunting, >> My Best, Mike >> >>From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >>To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit >> >> >> >> >> >>Allen, >> >>What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm tired of those sport boats passing me. >>Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! >> >>Jerry >> >> >> >>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit >> >> >> >>I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. >> >> >>Allen >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > >

NCPHRF gives no allowance for no spinnaker. On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 12:35 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > not on a T-2. We show different ratings for 150, 170, and spinnaker. > reggie > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: al… [at] gmail.com > Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:50:33 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > I am considering a spinnaker of some sort. We have been racing in the > Beer Can races and just recently in the Jessica Cup with Leda's old 150 > handicap which would allow us to use a spinnaker but we don't. That is a > disadvantage in light winds, and as on the Jessica Cup where there was a > long reaching run and we had our 45 year old 150 up and it really didn't > perform. We use that sail on a 20 ft pole downwind and that works well, but > it has its problems. > > Our 150 is a little like an asymmetric in that we fly it from a spin > halyard and gybe it forward of the forestay (and the luff). I think that is > called an outside gybe. But since we don't have a sprit the sheets don't > fall in the water and an outside gybe works great. Just cut the sheet and > the sail flies in front of the boat like a flag and you move the boat > around it and pull it in on the other side. > > The other thing the spinnaker can do is allow us to fly the 90 more often > knowing we can put up the big sail. That is easier on the boat, which is a > consideration as I spend a fair amount of time gluing it back together that > would be a good thing. > > As you know, I have an old symmetric spinnaker and have been planning on > using it. Talking to my sailmaker, he points out that the asymmetric would > be easier to deal with and easier on the boat. Plus, given we do so well > even without any spinnaker, it might be more than enough to be competitive. > > Allen > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > > > Hi Allen, > Hi Allen, > Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF > Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as > agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a > certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out > that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the > Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will > find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or > measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their > considerable experience. > If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you > may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing > more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. > You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an > asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that > option. > My Best, Mike > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other > words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? > > Allen > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > Hi Allen & Jerry > You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating > certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 > took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot > asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. > With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit > may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the > Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. > Happy Hunting, > My Best, Mike > *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > Allen, > What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the > Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' > skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why > not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm > tired of those sport boats passing me. > Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe > get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! > Jerry > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 > inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to > back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I > would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

To be fast downwind we fly both a 155 and a 150. That sometimes put us with a 155 in 20 knots. That is hard on the boat and probably not fast either. Now, we could change down to the 90 toward the end of the downwind leg but if we don't realize how strong the wind is we get lazy. So it is not that the A-shoot itself is easier, it is that using the 90 upwind is a lot easier, points higher, and it generally faster. Race to win means adding a shoot of some kind. The other easier on the boat is that my crew isn't that good and nasty things can happen with a sym-shoot. The skipper of Leda is tactician on an Express 37 and they ended up on the beach in the last Big Boat series after an unsuccessful gybe. That was an example of not easy on the boat. But if you are only going to have one spinnaker and use it for downwind and reaching, what would it be? Our races are too short to change sails. The other thing is that I did win the series at the Beer Can races without the spinnaker and I did tie for first at the Jessica Cup (lost the tie breaker) and we made some mistakes that clearly would have made given us the second race so any downwind sail is going to be very helpful. Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 3:18 PM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Allen, > Why would the A-Shoot be "Easier on the Boat?" I'm confused! > Does being easier on the boat or winning play into some plan? Do we race > to win or for something else? > My Best, Mike > > *From:* r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> > *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2011 12:35 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] 150 rating equal spinnaker rating? > > > > not on a T-2. We show different ratings for 150, 170, and spinnaker. > reggie > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: al… [at] gmail.com > Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:50:33 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > I am considering a spinnaker of some sort. We have been racing in the > Beer Can races and just recently in the Jessica Cup with Leda's old 150 > handicap which would allow us to use a spinnaker but we don't. That is a > disadvantage in light winds, and as on the Jessica Cup where there was a > long reaching run and we had our 45 year old 150 up and it really didn't > perform. We use that sail on a 20 ft pole downwind and that works well, but > it has its problems. > > Our 150 is a little like an asymmetric in that we fly it from a spin > halyard and gybe it forward of the forestay (and the luff). I think that is > called an outside gybe. But since we don't have a sprit the sheets don't > fall in the water and an outside gybe works great. Just cut the sheet and > the sail flies in front of the boat like a flag and you move the boat > around it and pull it in on the other side. > > The other thing the spinnaker can do is allow us to fly the 90 more often > knowing we can put up the big sail. That is easier on the boat, which is a > consideration as I spend a fair amount of time gluing it back together that > would be a good thing. > > As you know, I have an old symmetric spinnaker and have been planning on > using it. Talking to my sailmaker, he points out that the asymmetric would > be easier to deal with and easier on the boat. Plus, given we do so well > even without any spinnaker, it might be more than enough to be competitive. > > Allen > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > > Hi Allen, > Hi Allen, > Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF > Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as > agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a > certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out > that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the > Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will > find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or > measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their > considerable experience. > If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you > may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing > more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. > You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an > asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that > option. > My Best, Mike > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other > words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? > > Allen > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > Hi Allen & Jerry > You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating > certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 > took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot > asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. > With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit > may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the > Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. > Happy Hunting, > My Best, Mike > *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > Allen, > What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the > Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' > skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why > not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm > tired of those sport boats passing me. > Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe > get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! > Jerry > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 > inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to > back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I > would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

interesting. most PHRF districts give approximately 10% for non-spin. To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] gmail.com Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:24:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 150 rating equal spinnaker rating? NCPHRF gives no allowance for no spinnaker. On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 12:35 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: not on a T-2. We show different ratings for 150, 170, and spinnaker. reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] gmail.com Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:50:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit I am considering a spinnaker of some sort. We have been racing in the Beer Can races and just recently in the Jessica Cup with Leda's old 150 handicap which would allow us to use a spinnaker but we don't. That is a disadvantage in light winds, and as on the Jessica Cup where there was a long reaching run and we had our 45 year old 150 up and it really didn't perform. We use that sail on a 20 ft pole downwind and that works well, but it has its problems. Our 150 is a little like an asymmetric in that we fly it from a spin halyard and gybe it forward of the forestay (and the luff). I think that is called an outside gybe. But since we don't have a sprit the sheets don't fall in the water and an outside gybe works great. Just cut the sheet and the sail flies in front of the boat like a flag and you move the boat around it and pull it in on the other side. The other thing the spinnaker can do is allow us to fly the 90 more often knowing we can put up the big sail. That is easier on the boat, which is a consideration as I spend a fair amount of time gluing it back together that would be a good thing. As you know, I have an old symmetric spinnaker and have been planning on using it. Talking to my sailmaker, he points out that the asymmetric would be easier to deal with and easier on the boat. Plus, given we do so well even without any spinnaker, it might be more than enough to be competitive. Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Allen, Hi Allen, Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their considerable experience. If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that option. My Best, Mike From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Allen & Jerry You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. Happy Hunting, My Best, Mike From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit Allen, What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm tired of those sport boats passing me. Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. Allen

*No additional credit* is given for: A. Sail inventories with the headsail LP less than 125% of J. B. *Absence of a spinnake*r; (although it is strongly recommended the boats sail in separate divisions from spinnaker equipped boats;) C. Excess weight in the form of optional equipment and gear. http://www.yra.org/PHRF/docs/ncphrf_rules_and_guidelines.pdf I think the reason is that we have too many sail makers on the committee ;-) Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:50 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > interesting. most PHRF districts give approximately 10% for non-spin. > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: al… [at] gmail.com > Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:24:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 150 rating equal spinnaker rating? > > > > NCPHRF gives no allowance for no spinnaker. > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 12:35 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > ** > > > > not on a T-2. We show different ratings for 150, 170, and spinnaker. > reggie > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: al… [at] gmail.com > Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:50:33 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > I am considering a spinnaker of some sort. We have been racing in the > Beer Can races and just recently in the Jessica Cup with Leda's old 150 > handicap which would allow us to use a spinnaker but we don't. That is a > disadvantage in light winds, and as on the Jessica Cup where there was a > long reaching run and we had our 45 year old 150 up and it really didn't > perform. We use that sail on a 20 ft pole downwind and that works well, but > it has its problems. > > Our 150 is a little like an asymmetric in that we fly it from a spin > halyard and gybe it forward of the forestay (and the luff). I think that is > called an outside gybe. But since we don't have a sprit the sheets don't > fall in the water and an outside gybe works great. Just cut the sheet and > the sail flies in front of the boat like a flag and you move the boat > around it and pull it in on the other side. > > The other thing the spinnaker can do is allow us to fly the 90 more often > knowing we can put up the big sail. That is easier on the boat, which is a > consideration as I spend a fair amount of time gluing it back together that > would be a good thing. > > As you know, I have an old symmetric spinnaker and have been planning on > using it. Talking to my sailmaker, he points out that the asymmetric would > be easier to deal with and easier on the boat. Plus, given we do so well > even without any spinnaker, it might be more than enough to be competitive. > > Allen > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > > > Hi Allen, > Hi Allen, > Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF > Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as > agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a > certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out > that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the > Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will > find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or > measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their > considerable experience. > If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you > may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing > more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. > You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an > asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that > option. > My Best, Mike > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other > words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? > > Allen > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > Hi Allen & Jerry > You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating > certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 > took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot > asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. > With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit > may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the > Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. > Happy Hunting, > My Best, Mike > *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > > Allen, > What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the > Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' > skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why > not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm > tired of those sport boats passing me. > Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe > get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! > Jerry > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit > > > I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 > inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to > back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I > would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hi Allen, I went thru the A chute vs S chute situation and I concluded that because the A chute cannot sail deep below 165 degrees to advantage, it is not a good choice for boats that will sail beyond hull speed for only more than a few seconds. I believed that it would be easier to gybe the A chute without the spinnaker pole drill. Although our performance got better gjbing was difficult as the chute needed to be passed around the forestay. I was never convinced that the 9 second hit we took because of the increased "J" dimention as measured( It was increased by the sprit length of 4' 4") could be a better choice than a full size Cal 20 class spinnaker that could be poled back to go DDW or even by the lee, something impossible with the A chute. Also remember that the 9 sec hit was all the time, upwind too. There were times I did not set the A chute as I knew it was blowing more than 20k true and and I was concerned that I would crash and burn, broach out of control and collide with another boat. Your sailmaker's point about easier on the boat makes sense. In those conditions a 90 will be easier to trim and tack with too. A 150 or 155% headsail is a make do off the wind. Go with a symmetrical sail and a light spinnaker pole that will fail before it endangers the rig if crew error or conditions overpower control. Be prepared to blow the sheet and vang instantly so you may drive down if overpowered reaching. I can sail about 60 degrees apparent if I lower the pole lift, harden the foreguy and sheet way in converting the shape of the chute to a huge genoa and it's legal too! Good Luck! My Best, Mike From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 150 rating equal spinnaker rating? No additional credit is given for: A. Sail inventories with the headsail LP less than 125% of J. B. Absence of a spinnaker; (although it is strongly recommended the boats sail in separate divisions from spinnaker equipped boats;) C. Excess weight in the form of optional equipment and gear. http://www.yra.org/PHRF/docs/ncphrf_rules_and_guidelines.pdf I think the reason is that we have too many sail makers on the committee ;-) Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:50 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: >interesting. most PHRF districts give approximately 10% for non-spin. > > > >________________________________ >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >From: al… [at] gmail.com >Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:24:16 -0700 >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 150 rating equal spinnaker rating? > > > >NCPHRF gives no allowance for no spinnaker. > > >On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 12:35 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > >> >> >>not on a T-2. We show different ratings for 150, 170, and spinnaker. >>reggie >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>From: al… [at] gmail.com >>Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:50:33 -0700 >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit >> >> >>I am considering a spinnaker of some sort. We have been racing in the Beer Can races and just recently in the Jessica Cup with Leda's old 150 handicap which would allow us to use a spinnaker but we don't. That is a disadvantage in light winds, and as on the Jessica Cup where there was a long reaching run and we had our 45 year old 150 up and it really didn't perform. We use that sail on a 20 ft pole downwind and that works well, but it has its problems. >> >> >>Our 150 is a little like an asymmetric in that we fly it from a spin halyard and gybe it forward of the forestay (and the luff). I think that is called an outside gybe. But since we don't have a sprit the sheets don't fall in the water and an outside gybe works great. Just cut the sheet and the sail flies in front of the boat like a flag and you move the boat around it and pull it in on the other side. >> >> >>The other thing the spinnaker can do is allow us to fly the 90 more often knowing we can put up the big sail. That is easier on the boat, which is a consideration as I spend a fair amount of time gluing it back together that would be a good thing. >> >> >>As you know, I have an old symmetric spinnaker and have been planning on using it. Talking to my sailmaker, he points out that the asymmetric would be easier to deal with and easier on the boat. Plus, given we do so well even without any spinnaker, it might be more than enough to be competitive. >> >> >>Allen >> >> >>On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>Hi Allen, >>> Hi Allen, >>> Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their considerable experience. >>> If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. >>> You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that option. >>> My Best, Mike >>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? >>> >>> >>>Allen >>> >>> >>>On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Hi Allen & Jerry >>>> You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. >>>> Happy Hunting, >>>> My Best, Mike >>>> >>>>From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >>>>To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>>Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Allen, >>>> >>>>What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm tired of those sport boats passing me. >>>>Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! >>>> >>>>Jerry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM >>>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. >>>> >>>> >>>>Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > >

Find and contact your local PHRF office and ask them. In SoCal a short sprit is allowed without penalty. Based on a % if I recall. On my 29 that translated to about a 6" extension. This does help the assym with chafe and I think it does improve both trim and gybe, but doesn't make it a whole lot faster. In SoCal there is no longer a penalty for carrying BOTH types of spinnaker. Our fleet has one or two reaching legs and I like the Assym for that, but for most normal up and down wind races the symmetrical works better on these boats. HTH Wilkie On Oct 23, 2011, at 10:04 AM, mike farrell wrote: Hi Allen, Hi Allen, Since Papoose nor Leda have current Nor Cal PHRF Certificates on file that question may be answered by class regulations as agreed upon. In the absence of active class structure, you may apply for a certificate so that you may participate in YRA Races and when you fill out that application your handicap(PHRF Rating) will be decided upon by the Handicap Committee. It is their collective subjective opinion which will find a fair estimate of your boat's performance. It's not cut and dried or measured in determinable metrics. It's a judgment call based on their considerable experience. If you are considering an asymmetrical spinnaker you may be more satisfied with a bit longer sprit. A short sprit makes gybing more difficult as the spinnaker must pass around the headstay. You may wish to carry both a symmetrical and an asymmetrical spinnaker but then an additional penalty applies for that option. My Best, Mike From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit So what would be the handicap hit for a 2 inch sprit? 6 inches? In other words, is there a minimum that does not get a hit? Allen On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:20 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Allen & Jerry You must inform the PHRF Handicap committee to update your rating certificate. The rating form asks for your sprit length. Coyote,my Cal 20 took a 9sec hit for a 4' 4" non articulating sprit with a 385 square foot asymmetrical chute. This then prevented me from soaking deep down wind. With a sport boat that can tack at 165 degrees DW at good speed a 9sec hit may pay. 9 sec. is a lot to give away and this is determined by the Handicap Committee. Appeal is possible, but a better outcome is unlikely. Happy Hunting, My Best, Mike From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit Allen, What about a nice bowsprit like they have on the Constitution? Or the Mayflower. OK, maybe I'm kidding. But look at what they have on those 18' skiffs, and you know how fast they go. Maybe I should modify Shpritz. Why not, you only go around once, and who wants to be in the slow lane. I'm tired of those sport boats passing me. Of course maybe I'll have to put on a running back stay or two, and maybe get rid of that jumper stay like one guy suggested. Woo Hooo! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bowsprit I remember someone on this list saying that a short bowsprit, like 12 inches or something, has no penalty. Is that true? Is there a reference to back that up? My sailmaker is saying that any bowsprit gets a rating hit. I would like to put a small one on Papoose, 6 inches, 12 inches, whatever. Allen