2-29 rudder

Help Please, Last year I pulled the Rudder for two reasons: 1. the rudder had cracks in it due to moisture in the foam. 2. the rudder post was binding. I drilled several ( 100 ) 3/4 " holes in rudder and left it near the boiler all winter. It seamed to be dry in the spring so I filled holes with epoxy, ground down outside of rudder and recovered with a couple layers off cloth and epoxy resin. I sealed top of rudder where it meets the post and sealed the inside of post itself, thinking this may be where the water was getting in, since it is wheel steered and the cover over the floor above post was not watertight. This spring I noticed that the rudder had split open again. I am thinking I didn't get it dried out. Has anyone else dealt with this problem? My choices: Tear down rudder and build new one over the metal skeleton. Perhaps elliptical ? Find a used one from a derelict boat. New one ? ( not really in my budget ) Any suggestions ? Joe

Joe, Two years ago, our rudder broke off and floated away during a race. It failed inside where the SS stock was welded to the internal support that was made from mild (ferrous) steel. With the help of a friend, we split open the rudder and had new SS internal support fabricated then welded to the original SS stock. Sealing the rudder was not hard using Gorilla Glue inside and straps to keep the two halves together until everything set up. Finally we reglassed and faired it. I think the original fabrication of the Cal rudder is somewhat of an Achilles Heal because of the mix of SS and mild steel. If I were to do it over again, I'd probably would do the same rather than buying a new one or finding a used one. Good Luck, Michael From: Joseph McCloskey <jj… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:53 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 rudder Help Please, Last year I pulled the Rudder for two reasons: 1. the rudder had cracks in it due to moisture in the foam. 2. the rudder post was binding. I drilled several ( 100 ) 3/4 " holes in rudder and left it near the boiler all winter. It seamed to be dry in the spring so I filled holes with epoxy, ground down outside of rudder and recovered with a couple layers off cloth and epoxy resin. I sealed top of rudder where it meets the post and sealed the inside of post itself, thinking this may be where the water was getting in, since it is wheel steered and the cover over the floor above post was not watertight. This spring I noticed that the rudder had split open again. I am thinking I didn't get it dried out. Has anyone else dealt with this problem? My choices: Tear down rudder and build new one over the metal skeleton. Perhaps elliptical ? Find a used one from a derelict boat. New one ? ( not really in my budget ) Any suggestions ? Joe

Sorry to say I have no words of wisdom, Joe, because you and I are sharing the same nightmare. I did exactly what you did only I did it about 5 years ago. Last winter there was another small (1.5 inch) crack weeping a small amount of brown liquid. Not sure what my next move is but I will be very attentive to this thread. From: Joseph McCloskey <jj… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:53 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 rudder Help Please, Last year I pulled the Rudder for two reasons: 1. the rudder had cracks in it due to moisture in the foam. 2. the rudder post was binding. I drilled several ( 100 ) 3/4 " holes in rudder and left it near the boiler all winter. It seamed to be dry in the spring so I filled holes with epoxy, ground down outside of rudder and recovered with a couple layers off cloth and epoxy resin. I sealed top of rudder where it meets the post and sealed the inside of post itself, thinking this may be where the water was getting in, since it is wheel steered and the cover over the floor above post was not watertight. This spring I noticed that the rudder had split open again. I am thinking I didn't get it dried out. Has anyone else dealt with this problem? My choices: Tear down rudder and build new one over the metal skeleton. Perhaps elliptical ? Find a used one from a derelict boat. New one ? ( not really in my budget ) Any suggestions ? Joe

My guess is the rudder fins inside the rudder between the fiberglass have rusted and continue to do so, causing expansion, maybe disintegration of the fins and compromising the entire concept. In the event this is the case, I would either find another rudder,) I might know where one is, I will ask), or open up yours very carefully. If the unit is rusted, and the fins fall off, your rudder could spin on the shaft. You could build a new one, making patterns from your old one by carving a rudder from a blank, then sawing it in half (I'd saw it first) top to bottom, then hollow out for your new fin and shaft assy, hopefully your shaft itself is still sound enough to weld or braise the new fins to, whatever material it is. Then you would reglass it all, one side at a time and beef the cutting edge with overlapping cloth. Then, after you have glassed it,then fair it to perfection, and use the same method of bottom paint to cover, like 2000E in two layers, then your bottom paint. Point to note: if you go elliptical, and you race,it's nice as I have seen one on a 29, you could get a serious ding on your PHRF. Before you do all this, try to flex your rudder back and forth to see if the shaft, fins seem loose, also have someone else look, as it's a lot of work. Maybe it's getting holes from objects at the dock, or tweaked tidally? You sometimes have to repair the hull extensions that run top to bottom in front of the top of the rudder, if your steering is out of adjustment it could be hitting those, damaging both that and the rudder. Helen From: Joseph McCloskey <jj… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:53 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 rudder Help Please, Last year I pulled the Rudder for two reasons: 1. the rudder had cracks in it due to moisture in the foam. 2. the rudder post was binding. I drilled several ( 100 ) 3/4 " holes in rudder and left it near the boiler all winter. It seamed to be dry in the spring so I filled holes with epoxy, ground down outside of rudder and recovered with a couple layers off cloth and epoxy resin. I sealed top of rudder where it meets the post and sealed the inside of post itself, thinking this may be where the water was getting in, since it is wheel steered and the cover over the floor above post was not watertight. This spring I noticed that the rudder had split open again. I am thinking I didn't get it dried out. Has anyone else dealt with this problem? My choices: Tear down rudder and build new one over the metal skeleton. Perhaps elliptical ? Find a used one from a derelict boat. New one ? ( not really in my budget ) Any suggestions ? Joe

Joe, Sorry, but sounds like you need a new rudder. Foss Foam in Ca. will sell you a new, elliptical rudder that is just great. Regards, David Dobbs, CAL29 411 From: Joseph McCloskey <jj… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:53 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 rudder Help Please, Last year I pulled the Rudder for two reasons: 1. the rudder had cracks in it due to moisture in the foam. 2. the rudder post was binding. I drilled several ( 100 ) 3/4 " holes in rudder and left it near the boiler all winter. It seamed to be dry in the spring so I filled holes with epoxy, ground down outside of rudder and recovered with a couple layers off cloth and epoxy resin. I sealed top of rudder where it meets the post and sealed the inside of post itself, thinking this may be where the water was getting in, since it is wheel steered and the cover over the floor above post was not watertight. This spring I noticed that the rudder had split open again. I am thinking I didn't get it dried out. Has anyone else dealt with this problem? My choices: Tear down rudder and build new one over the metal skeleton. Perhaps elliptical ? Find a used one from a derelict boat. New one ? ( not really in my budget ) Any suggestions ? Joe

Joe, Are you in a cold winter environment? I had a similar problem about 6 years ago. I live in Michigan, and always left the rudder on during winter storage. What I didn't know, water had seeped in around the rudder post and froze, splitting the rudder on the leading edge. I removed the rudder while in the cradle, ground the split flush, and glassed some cloth over the wound. I have had no problem with it since (I remove the rudder every fall, store upside down to drain, repaint and reinstall in the spring). There is a slight unevenness to the surface, but it doesn't affect performance, and the repair was within my budget. Regards, Dave Leasia s/v Candy Cane 72 Cal 27 p-t #145 Grosse Pointe Farms, MI --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Joseph McCloskey <jjmcclosk@...> wrote: > > Help Please, > > Last year I pulled the Rudder for two reasons: 1. the rudder had cracks in it due to moisture in the foam. 2. the rudder post was binding. > > I drilled several ( 100 ) 3/4 " holes in rudder and left it near the boiler all winter. It seamed to be dry in the spring so I filled holes with epoxy, ground down outside of rudder and recovered with a couple layers off cloth and epoxy resin. > I sealed top of rudder where it meets the post and sealed the inside of post itself, thinking this may be where the water was getting in, since it is wheel steered and the cover over the floor above post was not watertight. > This spring I noticed that the rudder had split open again. I am thinking I didn't get it dried out. > Has anyone else dealt with this problem? > My choices: Tear down rudder and build new one over the metal skeleton. Perhaps elliptical ? > > Find a used one from a derelict boat. > New one ? ( not really in my budget ) > Any suggestions ? > > Joe >

Folks, FYI - Another thing I have noticed in the Detroit area is that people are wrapping their rudders with a canvas cover. Especially if the boat is dry docked facing East / West leaving only one side of the rudder exposed to the sun. Nick From: "Telephone Dave" <te… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Cal Boats" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:52:06 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: 2-29 rudder (me too) Joe, Are you in a cold winter environment? I had a similar problem about 6 years ago. I live in Michigan, and always left the rudder on during winter storage. What I didn't know, water had seeped in around the rudder post and froze, splitting the rudder on the leading edge. I removed the rudder while in the cradle, ground the split flush, and glassed some cloth over the wound. I have had no problem with it since (I remove the rudder every fall, store upside down to drain, repaint and reinstall in the spring). There is a slight unevenness to the surface, but it doesn't affect performance, and the repair was within my budget. Regards, Dave Leasia s/v Candy Cane 72 Cal 27 p-t #145 Grosse Pointe Farms, MI --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com , Joseph McCloskey <jjmcclosk@...> wrote: > > Help Please, > > Last year I pulled the Rudder for two reasons: 1. the rudder had cracks in it due to moisture in the foam. 2. the rudder post was binding. > > I drilled several ( 100 ) 3/4 " holes in rudder and left it near the boiler all winter. It seamed to be dry in the spring so I filled holes with epoxy, ground down outside of rudder and recovered with a couple layers off cloth and epoxy resin. > I sealed top of rudder where it meets the post and sealed the inside of post itself, thinking this may be where the water was getting in, since it is wheel steered and the cover over the floor above post was not watertight. > This spring I noticed that the rudder had split open again. I am thinking I didn't get it dried out. > Has anyone else dealt with this problem? > My choices: Tear down rudder and build new one over the metal skeleton. Perhaps elliptical ? > > Find a used one from a derelict boat. > New one ? ( not really in my budget ) > Any suggestions ? > > Joe >

There is a very good rudder sitting on the ground under a Cal 29 in the Chestertown Marine in Maryland. The yard is now owned by the Town. The 29 appears abandoned and in my discussions with the former owner of the marina in 2009, the boat was paid up in terms of storage by the local community college. The rudder on the ground seems to be a replacement that was never installed. I would contact the marina and enquire. See attachment for location the transfer the coordinates to a live google maps session. Best of luck. /ch On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > My guess is the rudder fins inside the rudder between the fiberglass have > rusted and continue to do so, causing expansion, maybe disintegration of > the fins and compromising the entire concept. In the event this is the > case, I would either find another rudder,) I might know where one is, I > will ask), or open up yours very carefully. If the unit is rusted, and the > fins fall off, your rudder could spin on the shaft. You could build a new > one, making patterns from your old one by carving a rudder from a blank, > then sawing it in half (I'd saw it first) top to bottom, then hollow out > for your new fin and shaft assy, hopefully your shaft itself is still sound > enough to weld or braise the new fins to, whatever material it is. Then you > would reglass it all, one side at a time and beef the cutting edge with > overlapping cloth. Then, after you have glassed it,then fair it to > perfection, and use the same method of bottom paint to cover, like 2000E in > two layers, then your bottom paint. Point to note: if you go elliptical, > and you race,it's nice as I have seen one on a 29, you could get a serious > ding on your PHRF. Before you do all this, try to flex your rudder back and > forth to see if the shaft, fins seem loose, also have someone else look, as > it's a lot of work. Maybe it's getting holes from objects at the dock, or > tweaked tidally? You sometimes have to repair the hull extensions that run > top to bottom in front of the top of the rudder, if your steering is out of > adjustment it could be hitting those, damaging both that and the rudder. > Helen > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Joseph McCloskey <jj… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:53 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] 2-29 rudder > > > Help Please, > > Last year I pulled the Rudder for two reasons: 1. the rudder had cracks in > it due to moisture in the foam. 2. the rudder post was binding. > I drilled several ( 100 ) 3/4 " holes in rudder and left it near the > boiler all winter. It seamed to be dry in the spring so I filled holes with > epoxy, ground down outside of rudder and recovered with a couple layers off > cloth and epoxy resin. > I sealed top of rudder where it meets the post and sealed the inside of > post itself, thinking this may be where the water was getting in, since it > is wheel steered and the cover over the floor above post was not watertight. > This spring I noticed that the rudder had split open again. I am thinking > I didn't get it dried out. > Has anyone else dealt with this problem? > My choices: Tear down rudder and build new one over the metal skeleton. > Perhaps elliptical ? > Find a used one from a derelict boat. > New one ? ( not really in my budget ) > Any suggestions ? > > Joe > > > > > > -- /ch