Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne)

Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you already know that. I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. Thanks again - Paul In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy little unit. I have one. I love it. The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. Regards, Wayne From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of some sort). Thanks - Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. _www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com_ (http://www.docksidemobilemarineservice.com/) 443-614-4070 In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: Allen, The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate compass connection which makes it much less expandable. Hope this helps. Regards,/ font> Wayne From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and it seems to have a good selection of readouts. Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the bulkhead readouts? Allen From: Allen Edwards <_a… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:al… [at] gmail.com) > To: _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than just the wind transducer for some strange reason. Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. Allen On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <_a… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:al… [at] gmail.com) > wrote: I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an opinion? I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It would be nice to have depth as well. Allen

Wayne, I have way too many questions. You seem to be a great source of knowledge so I hope I would not be bothering you too much to ask ask some questions. Many of my questions were answered here:raymarine.co.uk<http://goo.gl/2406d> but not all. One important question is that it looks like from the sales lit I have seen that there is so much noise in the analog wind direction reading that I question if the system is really useful as a couple of degrees of wind angle is important for performance. For example, see this picture Link<http://www.panbo.com/assets_c/2009/02/Tacktick_mn30_T033_economy_wind_lr-thumb-465x352-24.jpg>. If that is a typical readout, why would I want to expand it? Is it really useful at all with this much noise? Is there an averaging function that can be set to reduce the noise? I didn't see it in the literature. In particular, how much does the VMG to Windward display jump around? Is it useful in setting sail trim. If there is as much noise as is shown, I will probably stick with my masthead fly and knot meter so this is a really important question. I don't know if my old Garmen GPSIII can interface with the T122 but as I cannot see that any of the displays can show the ocean current, maybe I don't need a GPS interface anyway. Can they? This next question is only relevant if the displays can display ocean current. I notice that the T104 has two hull sensors where the T108 has just one. I also notice that the combination of T108 and T106 is less money than the combination of T104 and T 113. It would seem that the difference is the dual hull sensors adding to the price. Is there an advantage of the dual hull sensors? Clearly it is an added expense to get two hull sensors installed. Is there an upside? I hope these are not too many questions. Allen On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > ** > Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives > me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. > Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your > trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what > kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you > already know that. > > I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the > traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well > as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to > have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda > race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. > > Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. > > Thanks again - > > Paul > > In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > > Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the > displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind > display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital > display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water > temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind > display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. > > You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes > with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the > other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable > of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy > little unit. I have one. I love it. > > The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are > simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter > (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be > around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The > wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly > without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display > can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. > > Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data > you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means > you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. > > Regards, > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like > (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can > keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If > they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an > autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of > some sort). > > Thanks - > > Paul West > Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. > www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com<http://www.docksidemobilemarineservice.com/> > 443-614-4070 > > In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Allen, > > The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 > Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out > but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and > the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the > T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. > > Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not > the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level > wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I > am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for > a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both > the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine > acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter > for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate > compass connection which makes it much less expandable. > > Hope this helps. > > Regards,/ font> > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, > and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has > a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need > from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and > it seems to have a good selection of readouts. > > Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the > bulkhead readouts? > > Allen > > > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > > A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind > system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I > have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second > transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the > remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many > readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than > just the wind transducer for some strange reason. > > Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering > side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a > #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. > > Allen > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to > read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, > it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of > noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could > filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that > the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it > responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me > if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the > T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. > > Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an > opinion? > > I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if > I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It > would be nice to have depth as well. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Reply in line From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne) Wayne, I have way too many questions. You seem to be a great source of knowledge so I hope I would not be bothering you too much to ask ask some questions. Many of my questions were answered here:raymarine.co.uk but not all. One important question is that it looks like from the sales lit I have seen that there is so much noise in the analog wind direction reading that I question if the system is really useful as a couple of degrees of wind angle is important for performance. For example, see this picture Link. If that is a typical readout, why would I want to expand it? Is it really useful at all with this much noise? Is there an averaging function that can be set to reduce the noise? I didn't see it in the literature. In particular, how much does the VMG to Windward display jump around? Is it useful in setting sail trim. If there is as much noise as is shown, I will probably stick with my masthead fly and knot meter so this is a really important question. The picture in the link is the display for the "Entry Level" wind indicator. As I mentioned in a prior response this is a dumbed down version of the racing/cruising unit. Racers will require the full featured unit. I am attaching the User Guide for the full featured Analog Display. It is kinda hard for me to answer questions like "how much does it jump around" or "is there too much noise". You can look at the UG and get an understanding of the controls available. Keep in mind that I have the Entry Level display because racing for me is merely an occasional and casual pastime. While I find the display suitable for my needs I would not suggest it if you take your racing seriously. I don't know if my old Garmen GPSIII can interface with the T122 but as I cannot see that any of the displays can show the ocean current, maybe I don't need a GPS interface anyway. Can they? Ocean Currents don't appear to be among the available data: NMEA Sentences (0183 V2.30) Received Sentences: DPT, HDG, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW Transmitted Sentences: DPT, GLL, HDG, MTW, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW, VLW NOTE: Only information available will be transmitted. This next question is only relevant if the displays can display ocean current. I notice that the T104 has two hull sensors where the T108 has just one. I also notice that the combination of T108 and T106 is less money than the combination of T104 and T 113. It would seem that the difference is the dual hull sensors adding to the price. Is there an advantage of the dual hull sensors? Clearly it is an added expense to get two hull sensors installed. Is there an upside? As with many things the answer is based on your specific requirements. All the through hull transducers are made by Airmar. You can get more details from the Airmar website. I chose to install the speed/temp transducer and the separate depth transducer to avoid a single point of failure. I already had two holes in my hull. If the most important thing for you is to avoid yet another hull hole maybe the Triducer is a better solution. I hope these are not too many questions. Don't worry, I'll let you know when I get tired of answering questions. Regards, Wayne Allen On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > >Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you already know that. >I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. > >Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. > >Thanks again - > >Paul > >In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > >>Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. >> >> >>You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy little unit. I have one. I love it. >> >> >>The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. >> >> >>Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. >> >> >>Regards, >>Wayne >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >> >> >> >>So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of some sort). >>Thanks - >> >>Paul West >>Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. >>www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com >>443-614-4070 >> >>In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: >> >>>Allen, >>> >>> >>>The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. >>> >>> >>>Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate compass connection which makes it much less expandable. >>> >>> >>>Hope this helps. >>> >>> >>>Regards,/ font> >>>Wayne >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>> >>> >>> >>>What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and it seems to have a good selection of readouts. >>> >>> >>>Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the bulkhead readouts? >>> >>>Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM >>>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than just the wind transducer for some strange reason. >>>> >>>> >>>>Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. >>>> >>>> >>>>Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an opinion? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It would be nice to have depth as well. >>>>> >>>>>Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>

I feel your pain, brother. From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne) Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you already know that. I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. Thanks again - Paul In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: >Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. > > >You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy little unit. I have one. I love it. > > >The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. > > >Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. > > >Regards, >Wayne > > > >________________________________ > From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > >So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of some sort). >Thanks - > >Paul West >Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. >www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com >443-614-4070 > >In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > >>Allen, >> >> >>The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. >> >> >>Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate compass connection which makes it much less expandable. >> >> >>Hope this helps. >> >> >>Regards,/ font> >>Wayne >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >> >> >> >>What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and it seems to have a good selection of readouts. >> >> >>Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the bulkhead readouts? >> >>Allen >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM >>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than just the wind transducer for some strange reason. >>> >>> >>>Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. >>> >>> >>>Allen >>> >>> >>> >>>On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. >>>> >>>> >>>>Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an opinion? >>>> >>>> >>>>I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It would be nice to have depth as well. >>>> >>>>Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > >

Thanks Wayne, Some follow-up questions inline. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > ** > > [Attachment(s) <#133eadb31fc1566f_133ea9ca9b08d725_TopText> from Wayne > Gillikin included below] > > Reply in line > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Friday, November 25, 2011 12:41 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne) > > > Wayne, > > I have way too many questions. You seem to be a great source of knowledge > so I hope I would not be bothering you too much to ask ask some questions. > > Many of my questions were answered here:raymarine.co.uk<http://goo.gl/2406d> but > not all. > > One important question is that it looks like from the sales lit I have > seen that there is so much noise in the analog wind direction reading that > I question if the system is really useful as a couple of degrees of wind > angle is important for performance. For example, see this picture Link<http://www.panbo.com/assets_c/2009/02/Tacktick_mn30_T033_economy_wind_lr-thumb-465x352-24.jpg>. > If that is a typical readout, why would I want to expand it? Is it really > useful at all with this much noise? Is there an averaging function that can > be set to reduce the noise? I didn't see it in the literature. In > particular, how much does the VMG to Windward display jump around? Is it > useful in setting sail trim. If there is as much noise as is shown, I will > probably stick with my masthead fly and knot meter so this is a really > important question. > > The picture in the link is the display for the "Entry Level" wind > indicator. As I mentioned in a prior response this is a dumbed down > version of the racing/cruising unit. Racers will require the full featured > unit. I am attaching the User Guide for the full featured Analog Display. > It is kinda hard for me to answer questions like "how much does it jump > around" or "is there too much noise". You can look at the UG and get an > understanding of the controls available. > > Keep in mind that I have the Entry Level display because racing for me is > merely an occasional and casual pastime. While I find the display > suitable for my needs I would not suggest it if you take your racing > seriously. > Thanks for the UG. Wind response can be selected to be auto, slow, normal, or fast. Do you happen to know what that means? How much filtering is that? Also, the display is 360 degrees. Do you know the resolution? For example, will it display 29 and 30 or jump from 25 to 30? > I don't know if my old Garmen GPSIII can interface with the T122 but as I > cannot see that any of the displays can show the ocean current, maybe I > don't need a GPS interface anyway. Can they? > > Ocean Currents don't appear to be among the available data: > NMEA Sentences (0183 V2.30) > Received Sentences: DPT, HDG, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW > Transmitted Sentences: DPT, GLL, HDG, MTW, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW, VLW > NOTE: Only information available will be transmitted. > Current can be calculated by the difference between boat speed and heading and GPS COG. I guess this means I would need a compass but I don't see that the unit can make the calculation. I guess you are confirming that the unit does not show ocean current. This next question is only relevant if the displays can display ocean > current. I notice that the T104 has two hull sensors where the T108 has > just one. I also notice that the combination of T108 and T106 is less > money than the combination of T104 and T 113. It would seem that the > difference is the dual hull sensors adding to the price. Is there an > advantage of the dual hull sensors? Clearly it is an added expense to get > two hull sensors installed. Is there an upside? > > As with many things the answer is based on your specific requirements. All > the through hull transducers are made by Airmar. You can get more details > from the Airmar website. I chose to install the speed/temp transducer and > the separate depth transducer to avoid a single point of failure. I > already had two holes in my hull. If the most important thing for you is > to avoid yet another hull hole maybe the Triducer is a better solution. > I will have to drill a hole for this so looks like the single transducer is the better solution. By the way, one could make the case that a single point of failure is better than two points of failure :-) > > > I hope these are not too many questions. > > Don't worry, I'll let you know when I get tired of answering questions. > > Thank you!!! Allen > Regards, > Wayne > > Allen > > > > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > ** > > ** > Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives > me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. > Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your > trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what > kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you > already know that. > > I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the > traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well > as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to > have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda > race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. > > Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. > > Thanks again - > > Paul > > In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the > displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind > display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital > display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water > temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind > display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. > > You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes > with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the > other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable > of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy > little unit. I have one. I love it. > > The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are > simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter > (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be > around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The > wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly > without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display > can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. > > Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data > you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means > you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. > > Regards, > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like > (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can > keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If > they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an > autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of > some sort). > > Thanks - > > Paul West > Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. > www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com<http://www.docksidemobilemarineservice.com/> > 443-614-4070 > > In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Allen, > > The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 > Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out > but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and > the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the > T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. > > Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not > the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level > wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I > am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for > a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both > the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine > acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter > for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate > compass connection which makes it much less expandable. > > Hope this helps. > > Regards,/ font> > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, > and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has > a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need > from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and > it seems to have a good selection of readouts. > > Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the > bulkhead readouts? > > Allen > > > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > > A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind > system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I > have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second > transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the > remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many > readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than > just the wind transducer for some strange reason. > > Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering > side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a > #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. > > Allen > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to > read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, > it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of > noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could > filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that > the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it > responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me > if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the > T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. > > Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an > opinion? > > I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if > I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It > would be nice to have depth as well. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

More in line From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) Thanks Wayne, Some follow-up questions inline. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > >[Attachment(s) from Wayne Gillikin included below] >Reply in line > > > >________________________________ > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 12:41 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne) > > > >Wayne, > > >I have way too many questions. You seem to be a great source of knowledge so I hope I would not be bothering you too much to ask ask some questions. > > >Many of my questions were answered here:raymarine.co.uk but not all. > > >One important question is that it looks like from the sales lit I have seen that there is so much noise in the analog wind direction reading that I question if the system is really useful as a couple of degrees of wind angle is important for performance. For example, see this picture Link. If that is a typical readout, why would I want to expand it? Is it really useful at all with this much noise? Is there an averaging function that can be set to reduce the noise? I didn't see it in the literature. In particular, how much does the VMG to Windward display jump around? Is it useful in setting sail trim. If there is as much noise as is shown, I will probably stick with my masthead fly and knot meter so this is a really important question. > > >The picture in the link is the display for the "Entry Level" wind indicator. As I mentioned in a prior response this is a dumbed down version of the racing/cruising unit. Racers will require the full featured unit. I am attaching the User Guide for the full featured Analog Display. It is kinda hard for me to answer questions like "how much does it jump around" or "is there too much noise". You can look at the UG and get an understanding of the controls available. > > >Keep in mind that I have the Entry Level display because racing for me is merely an occasional and casual pastime. While I find the display suitable for my needs I would not suggest it if you take your racing seriously. Thanks for the UG. Wind response can be selected to be auto, slow, normal, or fast. Do you happen to know what that means? How much filtering is that? This is the refresh rate (I guess that is a form of filtering) but I don't know, for example, how many times per second the "Normal" rate is. But let me turn the question around. Exactly what refresh rate are you looking for? If I told you it was 10 or 100 times per second would you be able to make a decision based on that information? Earlier you were asking me to tell you how much the VMG jumped around or how much "noise" there was. These are quality judgments that relate to how much you will like the system. One man's "noise" is another man's essential data. Even if I had the engineering data, which I don't, I don't believe it would get you any closer to a decision. For this info you need to just find a boat with the instruments installed, sail on the boat, and see if they work for you in actual practice. Sorry, but I don't think I can provide any better info on this topic. Also, the display is 360 degrees. Do you know the resolution? For example, will it display 29 and 30 or jump from 25 to 30? See page 8 of the User Guide. I don't know if my old Garmen GPSIII can interface with the T122 but as I cannot see that any of the displays can show the ocean current, maybe I don't need a GPS interface anyway. Can they? > > >Ocean Currents don't appear to be among the available data: >NMEA Sentences (0183 V2.30) >Received Sentences: DPT, HDG, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW >Transmitted Sentences: DPT, GLL, HDG, MTW, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW, VLW >NOTE: Only information available will be transmitted. Current can be calculated by the difference between boat speed and heading and GPS COG. I guess this means I would need a compass but I don't see that the unit can make the calculation. I guess you are confirming that the unit does not show ocean current. The displays you are talking about will not provide calculated set and drift information. You need to go to the T210 or T215 Maxi displays and include an electronic compass and the NMEA interface. I am including the User Guide. See pages 11 & 12 This next question is only relevant if the displays can display ocean current. I notice that the T104 has two hull sensors where the T108 has just one. I also notice that the combination of T108 and T106 is less money than the combination of T104 and T 113. It would seem that the difference is the dual hull sensors adding to the price. Is there an advantage of the dual hull sensors? Clearly it is an added expense to get two hull sensors installed. Is there an upside? > > >As with many things the answer is based on your specific requirements. All the through hull transducers are made by Airmar. You can get more details from the Airmar website. I chose to install the speed/temp transducer and the separate depth transducer to avoid a single point of failure. I already had two holes in my hull. If the most important thing for you is to avoid yet another hull hole maybe the Triducer is a better solution. I will have to drill a hole for this so looks like the single transducer is the better solution. By the way, one could make the case that a single point of failure is better than two points of failure :-) > > > >I hope these are not too many questions. > > >Don't worry, I'll let you know when I get tired of answering questions. > > Thank you!!! Allen Regards, >Wayne > >Allen > > > > > > >On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > >> >> >>Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you already know that. >>I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. >> >>Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. >> >>Thanks again - >> >>Paul >> >>In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: >> >>>Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. >>> >>> >>>You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy little unit. I have one. I love it. >>> >>> >>>The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. >>> >>> >>>Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. >>> >>> >>>Regards, >>>Wayne >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>> >>> >>> >>>So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of some sort). >>>Thanks - >>> >>>Paul West >>>Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. >>>www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com >>>443-614-4070 >>> >>>In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: >>> >>>>Allen, >>>> >>>> >>>>The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. >>>> >>>> >>>>Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate compass connection which makes it much less expandable. >>>> >>>> >>>>Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> >>>>Regards,/ font> >>>>Wayne >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>________________________________ >>>> From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and it seems to have a good selection of readouts. >>>> >>>> >>>>Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the bulkhead readouts? >>>> >>>>Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM >>>>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than just the wind transducer for some strange reason. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Allen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an opinion? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It would be nice to have depth as well. >>>>>> >>>>>>Allen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > > >

Thanks for the fine response. Reply up here this time. Refresh rate may or may not involve filtering but is not strictly speaking filtering. In fact, refresh rate and filtering are completely independent from an engineering standpoint. Perhaps a simplistic example would help, if the raw readings are 40,50,35,55 then any refresh rate would present one of these readings while a filtered reading would present something close to 45 which is not one of the readings. The units of refresh are readings per second and the units of filtering are seconds (a time constant). Ideally I could select a readout that was several per second with minimal filtering and another that filtered over perhaps several seconds but read out every few seconds. I hesitate to put numbers on it as if they do change the filtering when they change the refresh rate they probably did a fine job of it. But did they or do they just change the refresh rate. My problem is that I am an electrical engineer who used to design test equipment so I read the terms as what they mean which may not be the common definition. I don't know anyone with this system. It would sure be great of they posted a video showing the display in use on different settings or the specifications. Oh well. Not sure what to do. I will try sending them an email with a specific question. I will let you know what I find out. Looking at page 8 I see that the readout can be between numbers so thanks for that. Thanks for the information on set and drift as well. I had searched that manual for current and clearly should have looked for set and drift in which case I could have answered my own question. In any event, my question is now answered on that. And thanks again for replying to my silly questions. Allen On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > ** > > [Attachment(s) <#133f01e3cc8a3bc5_133efbc9c567a220_TopText> from Wayne > Gillikin included below] > > *More in line* > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 28, 2011 11:00 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) > > > Thanks Wayne, > > Some follow-up questions inline. > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > [Attachment(s)<#133f01e3cc8a3bc5_133efbc9c567a220_133eadb31fc1566f_133ea9ca9b08d725_TopText>from Wayne Gillikin included below] > Reply in line > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Friday, November 25, 2011 12:41 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne) > > > Wayne, > > I have way too many questions. You seem to be a great source of knowledge > so I hope I would not be bothering you too much to ask ask some questions. > > Many of my questions were answered here:raymarine.co.uk<http://goo.gl/2406d> but > not all. > > One important question is that it looks like from the sales lit I have > seen that there is so much noise in the analog wind direction reading that > I question if the system is really useful as a couple of degrees of wind > angle is important for performance. For example, see this picture Link<http://www.panbo.com/assets_c/2009/02/Tacktick_mn30_T033_economy_wind_lr-thumb-465x352-24.jpg>. > If that is a typical readout, why would I want to expand it? Is it really > useful at all with this much noise? Is there an averaging function that can > be set to reduce the noise? I didn't see it in the literature. In > particular, how much does the VMG to Windward display jump around? Is it > useful in setting sail trim. If there is as much noise as is shown, I will > probably stick with my masthead fly and knot meter so this is a really > important question. > > The picture in the link is the display for the "Entry Level" wind > indicator. As I mentioned in a prior response this is a dumbed down > version of the racing/cruising unit. Racers will require the full featured > unit. I am attaching the User Guide for the full featured Analog Display. > It is kinda hard for me to answer questions like "how much does it jump > around" or "is there too much noise". You can look at the UG and get an > understanding of the controls available. > > Keep in mind that I have the Entry Level display because racing for me is > merely an occasional and casual pastime. While I find the display > suitable for my needs I would not suggest it if you take your racing > seriously. > > Thanks for the UG. Wind response can be selected to be auto, slow, > normal, or fast. Do you happen to know what that means? How much > filtering is that? *This is the refresh rate (I guess that is a form of > filtering) but I don't know, for example, how many times per second the > "Normal" rate is. But let me turn the question around. Exactly what > refresh rate are you looking for? If I told you it was 10 or 100 times per > second would you be able to make a decision based on that information? > Earlier you were asking me to tell you how much the VMG jumped around or > how much "noise" there was. These are quality judgments that relate to > how much you will like the system. One man's "noise" is another man's > essential data. Even if I had the engineering data, which I don't, I don't > believe it would get you any closer to a decision. For this info you need > to just find a boat with the instruments installed, sail on the boat, and > see if they work for you in actual practice. Sorry, but I don't think I > can provide any better info on this topic. * Also, the display is 360 > degrees. Do you know the resolution? For example, will it display 29 and > 30 or jump from 25 to 30? *See page 8 of the User Guide.* > > > I don't know if my old Garmen GPSIII can interface with the T122 but > as I cannot see that any of the displays can show the ocean current, maybe > I don't need a GPS interface anyway. Can they? > > Ocean Currents don't appear to be among the available data: > NMEA Sentences (0183 V2.30) > Received Sentences: DPT, HDG, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW > Transmitted Sentences: DPT, GLL, HDG, MTW, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW, VLW > NOTE: Only information available will be transmitted. > > > Current can be calculated by the difference between boat speed and heading > and GPS COG. I guess this means I would need a compass but I don't see > that the unit can make the calculation. I guess you are confirming that > the unit does not show ocean current. *The displays you are talking > about will not provide calculated set and drift information. You need to > go to the T210 or T215 Maxi displays and include an electronic compass and > the NMEA interface. I am including the User Guide. See pages 11 & 12* > > This next question is only relevant if the displays can display ocean > current. I notice that the T104 has two hull sensors where the T108 has > just one. I also notice that the combination of T108 and T106 is less > money than the combination of T104 and T 113. It would seem that the > difference is the dual hull sensors adding to the price. Is there an > advantage of the dual hull sensors? Clearly it is an added expense to get > two hull sensors installed. Is there an upside? > > As with many things the answer is based on your specific requirements. All > the through hull transducers are made by Airmar. You can get more details > from the Airmar website. I chose to install the speed/temp transducer and > the separate depth transducer to avoid a single point of failure. I > already had two holes in my hull. If the most important thing for you is > to avoid yet another hull hole maybe the Triducer is a better solution. > > I will have to drill a hole for this so looks like the single transducer > is the better solution. By the way, one could make the case that a single > point of failure is better than two points of failure :-) > > > > I hope these are not too many questions. > > Don't worry, I'll let you know when I get tired of answering questions. > > Thank you!!! > > Allen > > Regards, > Wayne > > Allen > > > > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > ** > > ** > Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives > me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. > Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your > trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what > kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you > already know that. > > I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the > traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well > as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to > have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda > race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. > > Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. > > Thanks again - > > Paul > > In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the > displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind > display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital > display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water > temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind > display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. > > You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes > with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the > other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable > of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy > little unit. I have one. I love it. > > The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are > simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter > (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be > around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The > wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly > without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display > can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. > > Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data > you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means > you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. > > Regards, > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like > (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can > keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If > they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an > autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of > some sort). > > Thanks - > > Paul West > Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. > www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com<http://www.docksidemobilemarineservice.com/> > 443-614-4070 > > In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Allen, > > The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 > Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out > but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and > the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the > T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. > > Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not > the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level > wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I > am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for > a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both > the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine > acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter > for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate > compass connection which makes it much less expandable. > > Hope this helps. > > Regards,/ font> > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, > and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has > a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need > from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and > it seems to have a good selection of readouts. > > Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the > bulkhead readouts? > > Allen > > > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > > A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind > system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I > have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second > transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the > remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many > readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than > just the wind transducer for some strange reason. > > Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering > side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a > #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. > > Allen > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to > read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, > it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of > noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could > filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that > the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it > responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me > if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the > T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. > > Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an > opinion? > > I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if > I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It > would be nice to have depth as well. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In hang gliding, we call the birds, or turkeys, out front who go up, down, or down the course, "wind dummies". There must be some way we can take advantage of that, if we can get out heads out of the cockpit. I have a friend who races her Cal 25, when her new crew got her to pay attention to her tel tales and steering more than her expensive instruments, she started kicking everyone's transom. I used to watch her pointy end receding in the distance at the end of a race, now, it's the square end. One of these days I'm going to install that fancy compass I acquired a year ago, in one of my bulkheads. But which one, starboard, or port side? Aarrgh! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) Thanks for the fine response. Reply up here this time. Refresh rate may or may not involve filtering but is not strictly speaking filtering. In fact, refresh rate and filtering are completely independent from an engineering standpoint. Perhaps a simplistic example would help, if the raw readings are 40,50,35,55 then any refresh rate would present one of these readings while a filtered reading would present something close to 45 which is not one of the readings. The units of refresh are readings per second and the units of filtering are seconds (a time constant). Ideally I could select a readout that was several per second with minimal filtering and another that filtered over perhaps several seconds but read out every few seconds. I hesitate to put numbers on it as if they do change the filtering when they change the refresh rate they probably did a fine job of it. But did they or do they just change the refresh rate. My problem is that I am an electrical engineer who used to design test equipment so I read the terms as what they mean which may not be the common definition. I don't know anyone with this system. It would sure be great of they posted a video showing the display in use on different settings or the specifications. Oh well. Not sure what to do. I will try sending them an email with a specific question. I will let you know what I find out. Looking at page 8 I see that the readout can be between numbers so thanks for that. Thanks for the information on set and drift as well. I had searched that manual for current and clearly should have looked for set and drift in which case I could have answered my own question. In any event, my question is now answered on that. And thanks again for replying to my silly questions. Allen On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >[Attachment(s) from Wayne Gillikin included below] >More in line > > > >________________________________ > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 11:00 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) > > > >Thanks Wayne, > > >Some follow-up questions inline. > > >On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > >> >>[Attachment(s) from Wayne Gillikin included below] >>Reply in line >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 12:41 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne) >> >> >> >>Wayne, >> >> >>I have way too many questions. You seem to be a great source of knowledge so I hope I would not be bothering you too much to ask ask some questions. >> >> >>Many of my questions were answered here:raymarine.co.uk but not all. >> >> >>One important question is that it looks like from the sales lit I have seen that there is so much noise in the analog wind direction reading that I question if the system is really useful as a couple of degrees of wind angle is important for performance. For example, see this picture Link. If that is a typical readout, why would I want to expand it? Is it really useful at all with this much noise? Is there an averaging function that can be set to reduce the noise? I didn't see it in the literature. In particular, how much does the VMG to Windward display jump around? Is it useful in setting sail trim. If there is as much noise as is shown, I will probably stick with my masthead fly and knot meter so this is a really important question. >> >> >>The picture in the link is the display for the "Entry Level" wind indicator. As I mentioned in a prior response this is a dumbed down version of the racing/cruising unit. Racers will require the full featured unit. I am attaching the User Guide for the full featured Analog Display. It is kinda hard for me to answer questions like "how much does it jump around" or "is there too much noise". You can look at the UG and get an understanding of the controls available. >> >> >>Keep in mind that I have the Entry Level display because racing for me is merely an occasional and casual pastime. While I find the display suitable for my needs I would not suggest it if you take your racing seriously. >Thanks for the UG. Wind response can be selected to be auto, slow, normal, or fast. Do you happen to know what that means? How much filtering is that? This is the refresh rate (I guess that is a form of filtering) but I don't know, for example, how many times per second the "Normal" rate is. But let me turn the question around. Exactly what refresh rate are you looking for? If I told you it was 10 or 100 times per second would you be able to make a decision based on that information? Earlier you were asking me to tell you how much the VMG jumped around or how much "noise" there was. These are quality judgments that relate to how much you will like the system. One man's "noise" is another man's essential data. Even if I had the engineering data, which I don't, I don't believe it would get you any closer to a decision. For this info you need to just find a boat with the instruments installed, sail on the boat, and see if they work for you in actual practice. Sorry, but I don't think I can provide any better info on this topic. Also, the display is 360 degrees. Do you know the resolution? For example, will it display 29 and 30 or jump from 25 to 30? See page 8 of the User Guide. > >I don't know if my old Garmen GPSIII can interface with the T122 but as I cannot see that any of the displays can show the ocean current, maybe I don't need a GPS interface anyway. Can they? >> >> >>Ocean Currents don't appear to be among the available data: >>NMEA Sentences (0183 V2.30) >>Received Sentences: DPT, HDG, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW >>Transmitted Sentences: DPT, GLL, HDG, MTW, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW, VLW >>NOTE: Only information available will be transmitted. > >Current can be calculated by the difference between boat speed and heading and GPS COG. I guess this means I would need a compass but I don't see that the unit can make the calculation. I guess you are confirming that the unit does not show ocean current. The displays you are talking about will not provide calculated set and drift information. You need to go to the T210 or T215 Maxi displays and include an electronic compass and the NMEA interface. I am including the User Guide. See pages 11 & 12 > > >This next question is only relevant if the displays can display ocean current. I notice that the T104 has two hull sensors where the T108 has just one. I also notice that the combination of T108 and T106 is less money than the combination of T104 and T 113. It would seem that the difference is the dual hull sensors adding to the price. Is there an advantage of the dual hull sensors? Clearly it is an added expense to get two hull sensors installed. Is there an upside? >> >> >>As with many things the answer is based on your specific requirements. All the through hull transducers are made by Airmar. You can get more details from the Airmar website. I chose to install the speed/temp transducer and the separate depth transducer to avoid a single point of failure. I already had two holes in my hull. If the most important thing for you is to avoid yet another hull hole maybe the Triducer is a better solution. >I will have to drill a hole for this so looks like the single transducer is the better solution. By the way, one could make the case that a single point of failure is better than two points of failure :-) > >> >> >> >>I hope these are not too many questions. >> >> >>Don't worry, I'll let you know when I get tired of answering questions. >> >> >Thank you!!! > > >Allen >Regards, >>Wayne >> >>Allen >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>>Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you already know that. >>>I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. >>> >>>Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. >>> >>>Thanks again - >>> >>>Paul >>> >>>In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: >>> >>>>Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. >>>> >>>> >>>>You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy little unit. I have one. I love it. >>>> >>>> >>>>The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. >>>> >>>> >>>>Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. >>>> >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Wayne >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>________________________________ >>>> From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of some sort). >>>>Thanks - >>>> >>>>Paul West >>>>Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. >>>>www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com >>>>443-614-4070 >>>> >>>>In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: >>>> >>>>>Allen, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate compass connection which makes it much less expandable. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Regards,/ font> >>>>>Wayne >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>________________________________ >>>>> From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and it seems to have a good selection of readouts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the bulkhead readouts? >>>>> >>>>>Allen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM >>>>>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than just the wind transducer for some strange reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Allen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an opinion? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It would be nice to have depth as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Allen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> > > >

Hey, I win most of the races I enter but there is always room for improvement. Allen On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > In hang gliding, we call the birds, or turkeys, out front who go up, down, > or down the course, "wind dummies". There must be some way we can take > advantage of that, if we can get out heads out of the cockpit. I have a > friend who races her Cal 25, when her new crew got her to pay attention to > her tel tales and steering more than her expensive instruments, she started > kicking everyone's transom. I used to watch her pointy end receding in the > distance at the end of a race, now, it's the square end. One of these days > I'm going to install that fancy compass I acquired a year ago, in one of my > bulkheads. But which one, starboard, or port side? > Aarrgh! > Jerry > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:32 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) > > > Thanks for the fine response. Reply up here this time. > > Refresh rate may or may not involve filtering but is not strictly speaking > filtering. In fact, refresh rate and filtering are completely independent > from an engineering standpoint. Perhaps a simplistic example would help, > if the raw readings are 40,50,35,55 then any refresh rate would present one > of these readings while a filtered reading would present something close to > 45 which is not one of the readings. The units of refresh are readings per > second and the units of filtering are seconds (a time constant). > > Ideally I could select a readout that was several per second with minimal > filtering and another that filtered over perhaps several seconds but read > out every few seconds. I hesitate to put numbers on it as if they do > change the filtering when they change the refresh rate they probably did a > fine job of it. But did they or do they just change the refresh rate. My > problem is that I am an electrical engineer who used to design test > equipment so I read the terms as what they mean which may not be the common > definition. > > I don't know anyone with this system. It would sure be great of they > posted a video showing the display in use on different settings or the > specifications. Oh well. Not sure what to do. I will try sending them an > email with a specific question. I will let you know what I find out. > > Looking at page 8 I see that the readout can be between numbers so thanks > for that. > > Thanks for the information on set and drift as well. I had searched that > manual for current and clearly should have looked for set and drift in > which case I could have answered my own question. In any event, my > question is now answered on that. > > And thanks again for replying to my silly questions. > > Allen > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > [Attachment(s)<#133f05f692cc34a2_133f01e3cc8a3bc5_133efbc9c567a220_TopText>from Wayne Gillikin included below] > *More in line* > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 28, 2011 11:00 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) > > > Thanks Wayne, > > Some follow-up questions inline. > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > [Attachment(s)<#133f05f692cc34a2_133f01e3cc8a3bc5_133efbc9c567a220_133eadb31fc1566f_133ea9ca9b08d725_TopText>from Wayne Gillikin included below] > Reply in line > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Friday, November 25, 2011 12:41 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne) > > > Wayne, > > I have way too many questions. You seem to be a great source of knowledge > so I hope I would not be bothering you too much to ask ask some questions. > > Many of my questions were answered here:raymarine.co.uk<http://goo.gl/2406d> but > not all. > > One important question is that it looks like from the sales lit I have > seen that there is so much noise in the analog wind direction reading that > I question if the system is really useful as a couple of degrees of wind > angle is important for performance. For example, see this picture Link<http://www.panbo.com/assets_c/2009/02/Tacktick_mn30_T033_economy_wind_lr-thumb-465x352-24.jpg>. > If that is a typical readout, why would I want to expand it? Is it really > useful at all with this much noise? Is there an averaging function that can > be set to reduce the noise? I didn't see it in the literature. In > particular, how much does the VMG to Windward display jump around? Is it > useful in setting sail trim. If there is as much noise as is shown, I will > probably stick with my masthead fly and knot meter so this is a really > important question. > > The picture in the link is the display for the "Entry Level" wind > indicator. As I mentioned in a prior response this is a dumbed down > version of the racing/cruising unit. Racers will require the full featured > unit. I am attaching the User Guide for the full featured Analog Display. > It is kinda hard for me to answer questions like "how much does it jump > around" or "is there too much noise". You can look at the UG and get an > understanding of the controls available. > > Keep in mind that I have the Entry Level display because racing for me is > merely an occasional and casual pastime. While I find the display > suitable for my needs I would not suggest it if you take your racing > seriously. > > Thanks for the UG. Wind response can be selected to be auto, slow, > normal, or fast. Do you happen to know what that means? How much > filtering is that? *This is the refresh rate (I guess that is a form of > filtering) but I don't know, for example, how many times per second the > "Normal" rate is. But let me turn the question around. Exactly what > refresh rate are you looking for? If I told you it was 10 or 100 times per > second would you be able to make a decision based on that information? > Earlier you were asking me to tell you how much the VMG jumped around or > how much "noise" there was. These are quality judgments that relate to > how much you will like the system. One man's "noise" is another man's > essential data. Even if I had the engineering data, which I don't, I don't > believe it would get you any closer to a decision. For this info you need > to just find a boat with the instruments installed, sail on the boat, and > see if they work for you in actual practice. Sorry, but I don't think I > can provide any better info on this topic. * Also, the display is 360 > degrees. Do you know the resolution? For example, will it display 29 and > 30 or jump from 25 to 30? *See page 8 of the User Guide.* > > > I don't know if my old Garmen GPSIII can interface with the T122 but > as I cannot see that any of the displays can show the ocean current, maybe > I don't need a GPS interface anyway. Can they? > > Ocean Currents don't appear to be among the available data: > NMEA Sentences (0183 V2.30) > Received Sentences: DPT, HDG, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW > Transmitted Sentences: DPT, GLL, HDG, MTW, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW, VLW > NOTE: Only information available will be transmitted. > > > Current can be calculated by the difference between boat speed and heading > and GPS COG. I guess this means I would need a compass but I don't see > that the unit can make the calculation. I guess you are confirming that > the unit does not show ocean current. *The displays you are talking > about will not provide calculated set and drift information. You need to > go to the T210 or T215 Maxi displays and include an electronic compass and > the NMEA interface. I am including the User Guide. See pages 11 & 12* > > This next question is only relevant if the displays can display ocean > current. I notice that the T104 has two hull sensors where the T108 has > just one. I also notice that the combination of T108 and T106 is less > money than the combination of T104 and T 113. It would seem that the > difference is the dual hull sensors adding to the price. Is there an > advantage of the dual hull sensors? Clearly it is an added expense to get > two hull sensors installed. Is there an upside? > > As with many things the answer is based on your specific requirements. All > the through hull transducers are made by Airmar. You can get more details > from the Airmar website. I chose to install the speed/temp transducer and > the separate depth transducer to avoid a single point of failure. I > already had two holes in my hull. If the most important thing for you is > to avoid yet another hull hole maybe the Triducer is a better solution. > > I will have to drill a hole for this so looks like the single transducer > is the better solution. By the way, one could make the case that a single > point of failure is better than two points of failure :-) > > > > I hope these are not too many questions. > > Don't worry, I'll let you know when I get tired of answering questions. > > Thank you!!! > > Allen > > Regards, > Wayne > > Allen > > > > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > ** > > ** > Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives > me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. > Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your > trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what > kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you > already know that. > > I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the > traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well > as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to > have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda > race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. > > Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. > > Thanks again - > > Paul > > In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the > displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind > display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital > display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water > temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind > display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. > > You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes > with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the > other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable > of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy > little unit. I have one. I love it. > > The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are > simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter > (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be > around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The > wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly > without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display > can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. > > Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data > you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means > you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. > > Regards, > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like > (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can > keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If > they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an > autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of > some sort). > > Thanks - > > Paul West > Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. > www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com<http://www.docksidemobilemarineservice.com/> > 443-614-4070 > > In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Allen, > > The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 > Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out > but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and > the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the > T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. > > Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not > the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level > wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I > am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for > a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both > the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine > acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter > for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate > compass connection which makes it much less expandable. > > Hope this helps. > > Regards,/ font> > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, > and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has > a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need > from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and > it seems to have a good selection of readouts. > > Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the > bulkhead readouts? > > Allen > > > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick > > > > A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind > system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I > have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second > transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the > remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many > readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than > just the wind transducer for some strange reason. > > Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering > side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a > #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. > > Allen > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to > read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, > it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of > noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could > filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that > the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it > responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me > if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the > T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. > > Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an > opinion? > > I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if > I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It > would be nice to have depth as well. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On 11/29/2011 12:28 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > One of these days I'm going to install that fancy compass I acquired a > year ago, in one of my bulkheads. But which one, starboard, or port side? How about in the middle? I hate cutting holes in my boats, so when the Cal 20 needed a new compass, I got a nice Ritchie bracket mount one and looked for a place to mount it. The last one was overhead in the companionway, and I kept running into it until it broke. So the new one got mounted on a piece of Star Board, cut to fit in place of the big companionway drop board. The compass board's top is at about seat-top level, so it forms a sort of bridge deck to keep water from the cockpit out of the boat's bilge (or, in the case of the Cal 20, "bilge," since there really is no bilge). Mounted on the board, I can insert it when I want a compass, and I can rotate the board so the compass faces either forward (inside) or aft (out in the cockpit). Inside it's protected better from being kicked; outside it's a bit more visible. My device needs two improvements. One is a stiffening batten along the top, so it really could hold back a cockpit full of water. The other is some sort of locking device, so it would not go adrift in a knockdown. Chris Campbell

Jerry Like you I sail by the seat of my pants all old school Dave Paulson ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Sobel To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) In hang gliding, we call the birds, or turkeys, out front who go up, down, or down the course, "wind dummies". There must be some way we can take advantage of that, if we can get out heads out of the cockpit. I have a friend who races her Cal 25, when her new crew got her to pay attention to her tel tales and steering more than her expensive instruments, she started kicking everyone's transom. I used to watch her pointy end receding in the distance at the end of a race, now, it's the square end. One of these days I'm going to install that fancy compass I acquired a year ago, in one of my bulkheads. But which one, starboard, or port side? Aarrgh! Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) Thanks for the fine response. Reply up here this time. Refresh rate may or may not involve filtering but is not strictly speaking filtering. In fact, refresh rate and filtering are completely independent from an engineering standpoint. Perhaps a simplistic example would help, if the raw readings are 40,50,35,55 then any refresh rate would present one of these readings while a filtered reading would present something close to 45 which is not one of the readings. The units of refresh are readings per second and the units of filtering are seconds (a time constant). Ideally I could select a readout that was several per second with minimal filtering and another that filtered over perhaps several seconds but read out every few seconds. I hesitate to put numbers on it as if they do change the filtering when they change the refresh rate they probably did a fine job of it. But did they or do they just change the refresh rate. My problem is that I am an electrical engineer who used to design test equipment so I read the terms as what they mean which may not be the common definition. I don't know anyone with this system. It would sure be great of they posted a video showing the display in use on different settings or the specifications. Oh well. Not sure what to do. I will try sending them an email with a specific question. I will let you know what I find out. Looking at page 8 I see that the readout can be between numbers so thanks for that. Thanks for the information on set and drift as well. I had searched that manual for current and clearly should have looked for set and drift in which case I could have answered my own question. In any event, my question is now answered on that. And thanks again for replying to my silly questions. Allen On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: [Attachment(s) from Wayne Gillikin included below] More in line ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Allen) Thanks Wayne, Some follow-up questions inline. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: [Attachment(s) from Wayne Gillikin included below] Reply in line -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick (Wayne) Wayne, I have way too many questions. You seem to be a great source of knowledge so I hope I would not be bothering you too much to ask ask some questions. Many of my questions were answered here:raymarine.co.uk but not all. One important question is that it looks like from the sales lit I have seen that there is so much noise in the analog wind direction reading that I question if the system is really useful as a couple of degrees of wind angle is important for performance. For example, see this picture Link. If that is a typical readout, why would I want to expand it? Is it really useful at all with this much noise? Is there an averaging function that can be set to reduce the noise? I didn't see it in the literature. In particular, how much does the VMG to Windward display jump around? Is it useful in setting sail trim. If there is as much noise as is shown, I will probably stick with my masthead fly and knot meter so this is a really important question. The picture in the link is the display for the "Entry Level" wind indicator. As I mentioned in a prior response this is a dumbed down version of the racing/cruising unit. Racers will require the full featured unit. I am attaching the User Guide for the full featured Analog Display. It is kinda hard for me to answer questions like "how much does it jump around" or "is there too much noise". You can look at the UG and get an understanding of the controls available. Keep in mind that I have the Entry Level display because racing for me is merely an occasional and casual pastime. While I find the display suitable for my needs I would not suggest it if you take your racing seriously. Thanks for the UG. Wind response can be selected to be auto, slow, normal, or fast. Do you happen to know what that means? How much filtering is that? This is the refresh rate (I guess that is a form of filtering) but I don't know, for example, how many times per second the "Normal" rate is. But let me turn the question around. Exactly what refresh rate are you looking for? If I told you it was 10 or 100 times per second would you be able to make a decision based on that information? Earlier you were asking me to tell you how much the VMG jumped around or how much "noise" there was. These are quality judgments that relate to how much you will like the system. One man's "noise" is another man's essential data. Even if I had the engineering data, which I don't, I don't believe it would get you any closer to a decision. For this info you need to just find a boat with the instruments installed, sail on the boat, and see if they work for you in actual practice. Sorry, but I don't think I can provide any better info on this topic. Also, the display is 360 degrees. Do you know the resolution? For example, will it display 29 and 30 or jump from 25 to 30? See page 8 of the User Guide. I don't know if my old Garmen GPSIII can interface with the T122 but as I cannot see that any of the displays can show the ocean current, maybe I don't need a GPS interface anyway. Can they? Ocean Currents don't appear to be among the available data: NMEA Sentences (0183 V2.30) Received Sentences: DPT, HDG, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW Transmitted Sentences: DPT, GLL, HDG, MTW, MWV, RMB, RMC, VHW, VLW NOTE: Only information available will be transmitted. Current can be calculated by the difference between boat speed and heading and GPS COG. I guess this means I would need a compass but I don't see that the unit can make the calculation. I guess you are confirming that the unit does not show ocean current. The displays you are talking about will not provide calculated set and drift information. You need to go to the T210 or T215 Maxi displays and include an electronic compass and the NMEA interface. I am including the User Guide. See pages 11 & 12 This next question is only relevant if the displays can display ocean current. I notice that the T104 has two hull sensors where the T108 has just one. I also notice that the combination of T108 and T106 is less money than the combination of T104 and T 113. It would seem that the difference is the dual hull sensors adding to the price. Is there an advantage of the dual hull sensors? Clearly it is an added expense to get two hull sensors installed. Is there an upside? As with many things the answer is based on your specific requirements. All the through hull transducers are made by Airmar. You can get more details from the Airmar website. I chose to install the speed/temp transducer and the separate depth transducer to avoid a single point of failure. I already had two holes in my hull. If the most important thing for you is to avoid yet another hull hole maybe the Triducer is a better solution. I will have to drill a hole for this so looks like the single transducer is the better solution. By the way, one could make the case that a single point of failure is better than two points of failure :-) I hope these are not too many questions. Don't worry, I'll let you know when I get tired of answering questions. Thank you!!! Allen Regards, Wayne Allen On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: Thanks Wayne - none of my instruments are working right now and it drives me nuts although I do think its good to be able to sail well w/o them. Without a speedo though you don't get valuable info to know if your trimming is helping or hurting you in real time and you don't know what kind of current you're in w/o being able to compare to SOG . . . but you already know that. I think I am going to mount them over the companionway just aft of the traveler as my main trimmer is always in front of the bulkhead as well as all the lines from the winches. With wireless though I am tempted to have multiple mounts of some sort so that if on a long tack on a Bermuda race I can move them to whichever side I am steering from. Gotta get the $$$ to buy them first though. Thanks again - Paul In a message dated 11/22/2011 5:26:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: Well, Paul, I would recommend the T104 assuming you will mount the displays on the bulkhead in the cockpit and you want an analog wind display. This system has wind, speed, depth/temp transducers, a digital display that will show any 2 data feeds (e.g. depth and speed, or water temp and depth, or speed and true wind direction, or...), an analog wind display, and an NMEA 0183 interface for your chart plotter and autopilot. You will also need the T113 Multifunction Wireless Remote. The T113 comes with two mounting brackets so you can mount it at the helm and use the other mount at the nav station (or anywhere else). The T113 is capable of displaying all the data generated by the system. This is a very handy little unit. I have one. I love it. The way these systems work is that the speed and depth transducers are simply Airmar transducers and are hardwired to a so called Hull Transmitter (requires 12VDC) which communicates wirelessly to whatever displays may be around. The electronic compass also connects to the Hull Transmitter. The wind speed/direction masthead unit communicates to the displays directly without having to be wired into the Hull Transmitter. Any digital display can render any data from either the masthead unit or the hull transmitter. Keep in mind, Paul, that once you have sensors (transducers) sending data you can mix and match any type or number of Tacktack displays. That means you have loads of options I haven't mentioned above. Regards, Wayne ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick So Wayne . . . being the "rabid" racer that I am I would like (eventually) a wireless wind depth and speed with a repeater that I can keep at the helm with me. What package would you recommend for me? If they are wireless can they be connected to my Navman chartplotter and an autopilot that is yet to be determined (hopefully an underdeck model of some sort). Thanks - Paul West Dockside Mobile Marine Service & Fuel Polishing Inc. www.DocksideMobileMarineService.com 443-614-4070 In a message dated 11/21/2011 2:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wa… [at] yahoo.com writes: Allen, The system you are considering will not work without addition of the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T108 includes not only the displays as you point out but also the T121 Hull Transmitter. The T910 is hardwired to the T121 and the T121 feeds the displays including the speed, depth, temp info for the T113. Only the wind system is not connected to the T121. Also keep in mind that the wind system from the Entry Level group is not the same as the one from the Cruising or Racing groups. The entry level wind system is kinda "dumbed down". I personally find it to be fine but I am not a rabid racer. One other thing to keep in mind is that the T121 for a long time was the only Hull Transmitter and it was delivered with both the Entry Level systems as well as the others. Just prior to the Raymarine acquisition, Tacktick added a dumbed down version of the Hull Transmitter for the Entry Level systems. The difference was the exclusion of the the flux-gate compass connection which makes it much less expandable. Hope this helps. Regards,/ font> Wayne -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick What I am looking at is the T120 wind transducer, T910 speed and depth, and T113 readout. The T33 is just a cheaper way to get the T120 and it has a readout that might be useful. I was thinking I could get what I need from the T113 remote readout. I have looked at the manual for the T113 and it seems to have a good selection of readouts. Why won't this work? What does the 108 package give me other than the bulkhead readouts? Allen From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:13 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: TackTick A follow up to my own question. Any opinions on getting the T033 wind system, the T910 speed/depth transducer, and the T113 remote readout. I have a knot meter on the boat and if I can keep that and add the second transducer, wire in the wind readout, then my tactician could have the remote readout and I wouldn't have to find a place to mount so many readouts. The T033 includes the T120 wind transducer and is cheaper than just the wind transducer for some strange reason. Their pricing reminds me of the restaurant I used to go to where ordering side orders of rice, beans, enchilada, and taco was cheaper than ordering a #3 but when the bill came, they charged for the #3 anyway. Allen On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: I am trying to figure out what Tacktick system I should get. I want to read out wind speed and direction and VMG to Wind. From the demo videos, it looks like the wind direction indicator swings around a lot, has lots of noise. I am wondering if these things are really useful. Ideally I could filter the wind direction so that it responds like the boat speed so that the VMG to Wind was accurate. But then again, it would be nice to have it responsive if I wanted to use it to pick a heading. It is not clear to me if the starter T38 system (heard wired is fine) has the capability of the T108 system or if I should be looking at something completely different. Can anyone point me to some good information on these systems or offer an opinion? I am planning on a haul out in April so this would be the time to do it if I am ever going to. Now I have a simple knot meter and masthead fly. It would be nice to have depth as well. Allen