Gas Tank Installation

I am looking for a little help here. I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 gallon gas tank<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+gas+tank>with a 12 gallon plastic tank<http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/files/FT1295-1_%282%29.pdf>. I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no longer sticking into the lazzarette<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank2.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+fuel+filler> . The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go). But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat<http://l-36.com/rebuild_joe.php> suggests that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this hose<http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/documents/329A2FUELHOSESpecificationSheet.pdf>that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea. #3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank. Allen

Allen I did the same mod on 2-34. I used a tank fromTempo that had the filler on the top near the side. I would avoid sharp bends in the filler hose. Fuel will back up and be very hard to get tank full. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation I am looking for a little help here. I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 gallon gas tank with a 12 gallon plastic tank. I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no longer sticking into the lazzarette. The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go). But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat suggests that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this hose that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea. #3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank. Allen

I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use - which is primarily a hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean sailing a thousand or so miles... and then the hundred mile motoring delivery from the ocean to Portland We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring - and have found the cockpit fuel location ideal. The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill: At sea, underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while on starboard tack or downwind... picture hanging overboard trying to stay on board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can. At Shore, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is "outside the boat" (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any spills... if you must use the high flow nozzles. Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank. Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM To: je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation I am looking for a little help here. I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 gallon gas tank<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+gas+tank> with a 12 gallon plastic tank<http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/files/FT1295-1_%282%29.pdf>. I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no longer sticking into the lazzarette<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank2.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+fuel+filler>. The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go). But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat<http://l-36.com/rebuild_joe.php> suggests that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this hose<http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/documents/329A2FUELHOSESpecificationSheet.pdf> that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea. #3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank. Allen

Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. My marina does not want us to use Gerry cans so the added advantage of filling from the cockpit is that nobody can see what I am doing, not that this has been a problem for the 23 years I have been using Gerry cans :-) Joe, I can probably add a small island for the filler and still have it on the cockpit sole. Actually, thinking about it, there would be less water over the deck plate with it mounted in the cockpit then there is now with it on deck. The can is only 7 1/2 inches high and I could not find smaller ones. Thanks for your input. Allen On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:33 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > ** > > > I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use – which is primarily > a hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean > sailing a thousand or so miles… and then the hundred mile motoring delivery > from the ocean to Portland**** > > ** ** > > We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring – and have > found the cockpit fuel location ideal.**** > > ** ** > > The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill:**** > > ** ** > > *At sea,* underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening > is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a > safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up > high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling > some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while > on starboard tack or downwind… picture hanging overboard trying to stay on > board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can.**** > > ** ** > > *At Shore*, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from > have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is > “outside the boat” (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend > with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any > spills… if you must use the high flow nozzles.**** > > ** ** > > Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against > water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the > fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank.* > *** > > ** ** > > Cheers,**** > > * * > > *[image: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]* > > *Timm Lessley* > > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM > *To:* je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > > ** ** > > **** > > I am looking for a little help here.**** > > ** ** > > I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 > gallon gas tank<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+gas+tank>with a 12 > gallon plastic tank<http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/files/FT1295-1_%282%29.pdf>. > I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good > idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a > year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no > longer sticking into the lazzarette<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank2.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+fuel+filler> > .**** > > ** ** > > The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from the > top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. Assuming I > need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a gap between > the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the cockpit sole > less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could always put a > small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be too much in > the way where it ends up wanting to go).**** > > ** ** > > But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat<http://l-36.com/rebuild_joe.php> suggests > that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That > would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like > it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water > still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) > Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this > hose<http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/documents/329A2FUELHOSESpecificationSheet.pdf>that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too > tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea.**** > > ** ** > > #3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice > between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank.**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > **** > > >

Yes, I forgot that one.. a dipstick is my only fuel gauge. Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. .

Tim, how ludite-ian. What, no Apple iPad app.? Even Aye have a guage on top of my 6 gallon red plastic generic tank. But truthfully, I gauge my tank mostly by lifting and wiggling it to feel the heft and hear the slosh, since I like to keep the weight down in the stern as much as practical. Jerry Sobel Shpritz, yea Oldest Cal boat in Cal_Boats group. From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:05 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation Yes, I forgot that one.. a dipstick is my only fuel gauge. Cheers, Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. .

what if you glassed in a tunneltype housing that extended the fill plate up higher off the cockpit floor, perhaps near a corner,that would still allow a dipstick check, and maybe make that first contact with the fill a lot easier to align? Probably could use pvc pipe larger than fuel fill pipe as framework? Helen From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. My marina does not want us to use Gerry cans so the added advantage of filling from the cockpit is that nobody can see what I am doing, not that this has been a problem for the 23 years I have been using Gerry cans :-) Joe, I can probably add a small island for the filler and still have it on the cockpit sole. Actually, thinking about it, there would be less water over the deck plate with it mounted in the cockpit then there is now with it on deck. The can is only 7 1/2 inches high and I could not find smaller ones. Thanks for your input. Allen On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:33 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > >I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use – which is primarily a hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean sailing a thousand or so miles… and then the hundred mile motoring delivery from the ocean to Portland > >We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring – and have found the cockpit fuel location ideal. > >The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill: > >At sea,underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while on starboard tack or downwind… picture hanging overboard trying to stay on board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can. > >At Shore, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is “outside the boat” (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any spills… if you must use the high flow nozzles. > >Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank. > >Cheers, > >Timm Lessley >503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM >To: je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > >I am looking for a little help here. > >I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 gallon gas tank with a 12 gallon plastic tank. I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no longer sticking into the lazzarette. > >The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go). > >But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat suggests that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this hose that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea. > >#3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank. > >Allen

Glass? What's that? I can just use a piece of teak and bond it to the plywood cockpit sole :-) On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > what if you glassed in a tunneltype housing that extended the fill plate > up higher off the cockpit floor, perhaps near a corner,that would still > allow a dipstick check, and maybe make that first contact with the fill a > lot easier to align? Probably could use pvc pipe larger than fuel fill pipe > as framework? Helen > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > > Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a > straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. > > My marina does not want us to use Gerry cans so the added advantage of > filling from the cockpit is that nobody can see what I am doing, not that > this has been a problem for the 23 years I have been using Gerry cans :-) > > Joe, I can probably add a small island for the filler and still have it on > the cockpit sole. Actually, thinking about it, there would be less water > over the deck plate with it mounted in the cockpit then there is now with > it on deck. The can is only 7 1/2 inches high and I could not find smaller > ones. > > Thanks for your input. > > Allen > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:33 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > > ** > > I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use – which is primarily > a hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean > sailing a thousand or so miles… and then the hundred mile motoring delivery > from the ocean to Portland**** > ** ** > We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring – and have > found the cockpit fuel location ideal.**** > ** ** > The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill:**** > ** ** > *At sea,* underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening > is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a > safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up > high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling > some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while > on starboard tack or downwind… picture hanging overboard trying to stay on > board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can.**** > ** ** > *At Shore*, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from > have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is > “outside the boat” (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend > with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any > spills… if you must use the high flow nozzles.**** > ** ** > Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against > water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the > fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank.* > *** > ** ** > Cheers,**** > * * > *[image: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]* > *Timm Lessley* > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > ** ** > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM > *To:* je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > ** ** > **** > I am looking for a little help here.**** > ** ** > I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 > gallon gas tank<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+gas+tank>with a 12 > gallon plastic tank<http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/files/FT1295-1_%282%29.pdf>. > I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good > idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a > year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no > longer sticking into the lazzarette<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank2.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+fuel+filler> > .**** > ** ** > The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from > the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. > Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a > gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the > cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could > always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be > too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go).**** > ** ** > But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat<http://l-36.com/rebuild_joe.php> suggests > that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That > would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like > it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water > still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) > Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this > hose<http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/documents/329A2FUELHOSESpecificationSheet.pdf>that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too > tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea.**** > ** ** > #3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice > between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank.**** > ** ** > Allen**** > **** > > > > >

I forget to consider that wood is everywhere on a wood boat. I was thinking of a sturdy shape to bring the fill point higher off the sole of the cockpit so tipping the can to pour wouldn't be so awkward. It is a problem to get gas to the boat when you have to leave your harbor and go for a long cruise to a dockside fuel station. To fuel up in the south bay, you have to go all the way to coyote point. Helen From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation Glass? What's that? I can just use a piece of teak and bond it to the plywood cockpit sole :-) On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: what if you glassed in a tunneltype housing that extended the fill plate up higher off the cockpit floor, perhaps near a corner,that would still allow a dipstick check, and maybe make that first contact with the fill a lot easier to align? Probably could use pvc pipe larger than fuel fill pipe as framework? Helen > > > > >________________________________ > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > > >Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. > > >My marina does not want us to use Gerry cans so the added advantage of filling from the cockpit is that nobody can see what I am doing, not that this has been a problem for the 23 years I have been using Gerry cans :-) > > >Joe, I can probably add a small island for the filler and still have it on the cockpit sole. Actually, thinking about it, there would be less water over the deck plate with it mounted in the cockpit then there is now with it on deck. The can is only 7 1/2 inches high and I could not find smaller ones. > > >Thanks for your input. > > >Allen > > > >On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:33 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > > >> >>I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use – which is primarily a hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean sailing a thousand or so miles… and then the hundred mile motoring delivery from the ocean to Portland >> >>We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring – and have found the cockpit fuel location ideal. >> >>The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill: >> >>At sea,underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while on starboard tack or downwind… picture hanging overboard trying to stay on board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can. >> >>At Shore, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is “outside the boat” (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any spills… if you must use the high flow nozzles. >> >>Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Timm Lessley >>503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls >> >>From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards >>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM >>To: je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation >> >> >>I am looking for a little help here. >> >>I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 gallon gas tank with a 12 gallon plastic tank. I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no longer sticking into the lazzarette. >> >>The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go). >> >>But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat suggests that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this hose that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea. >> >>#3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank. >> >>Allen > > >

I am so frustrated with Moeller tach support. Almost an hour trying to get a simple question answered. The mounting instructions say to allow 3% expansion on the tank. How is that possible? The tank filler neck will be clamped to the tank and that short section of hose isn't going to allow for 1/4 inch of motion. Even the hold down bracket specification is impossible as I read it. You must allow for at least 1/2 inch motion but not more than 1/4 inch. On the phone I was told that the 3% was volume and that the size change was insignificant. After I got off the phone, the instructions clearly state that the 18 inch dimension will grow to 18.5 inches. That is linear not volume. Allen On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > I forget to consider that wood is everywhere on a wood boat. I was > thinking of a sturdy shape to bring the fill point higher off the sole of > the cockpit so tipping the can to pour wouldn't be so awkward. It is a > problem to get gas to the boat when you have to leave your harbor and go > for a long cruise to a dockside fuel station. To fuel up in the south bay, > you have to go all the way to coyote point. Helen > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:56 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > > Glass? What's that? I can just use a piece of teak and bond it to the > plywood cockpit sole :-) > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > > what if you glassed in a tunneltype housing that extended the fill plate > up higher off the cockpit floor, perhaps near a corner,that would still > allow a dipstick check, and maybe make that first contact with the fill a > lot easier to align? Probably could use pvc pipe larger than fuel fill pipe > as framework? Helen > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > > Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a > straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. > > My marina does not want us to use Gerry cans so the added advantage of > filling from the cockpit is that nobody can see what I am doing, not that > this has been a problem for the 23 years I have been using Gerry cans :-) > > Joe, I can probably add a small island for the filler and still have it on > the cockpit sole. Actually, thinking about it, there would be less water > over the deck plate with it mounted in the cockpit then there is now with > it on deck. The can is only 7 1/2 inches high and I could not find smaller > ones. > > Thanks for your input. > > Allen > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:33 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > > ** > > I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use – which is primarily > a hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean > sailing a thousand or so miles… and then the hundred mile motoring delivery > from the ocean to Portland**** > ** ** > We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring – and have > found the cockpit fuel location ideal.**** > ** ** > The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill:**** > ** ** > *At sea,* underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening > is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a > safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up > high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling > some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while > on starboard tack or downwind… picture hanging overboard trying to stay on > board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can.**** > ** ** > *At Shore*, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from > have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is > “outside the boat” (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend > with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any > spills… if you must use the high flow nozzles.**** > ** ** > Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against > water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the > fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank.* > *** > ** ** > Cheers,**** > * * > *[image: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]* > *Timm Lessley* > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > ** ** > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM > *To:* je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > ** ** > **** > I am looking for a little help here.**** > ** ** > I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 > gallon gas tank<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+gas+tank>with a 12 > gallon plastic tank<http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/files/FT1295-1_%282%29.pdf>. > I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good > idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a > year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no > longer sticking into the lazzarette<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank2.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+fuel+filler> > .**** > ** ** > The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from > the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. > Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a > gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the > cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could > always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be > too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go).**** > ** ** > But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat<http://l-36.com/rebuild_joe.php> suggests > that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That > would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like > it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water > still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) > Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this > hose<http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/documents/329A2FUELHOSESpecificationSheet.pdf>that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too > tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea.**** > ** ** > #3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice > between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank.**** > ** ** > Allen**** > **** > > > > > > > >

Allen, maybe you can use rubber straps to secure the plastic tank? You could probably adapt rubber straps like the ones used to secure material to a roof rack, which you can find at a hardware store. Nylon straps or multiple small diameter nylon cords are another possibility, since nylon has some stretch to it. Sounds like an opportunity to improvise. Also, a short section of rubber tube will allow flex in any tank to deck connection. As far as the directions, I'm sure it's 1/4" but not more than 1/2", an oversight in editing. I secure my plastic tank with a small braided nylon line, and it's blocked in with wood walls so it can't go very far. Maybe a plywood box with an inner wall of semi-stiff sponge rubber to shim it is the ticket. Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation I am so frustrated with Moeller tach support. Almost an hour trying to get a simple question answered. The mounting instructions say to allow 3% expansion on the tank. How is that possible? The tank filler neck will be clamped to the tank and that short section of hose isn't going to allow for 1/4 inch of motion. Even the hold down bracket specification is impossible as I read it. You must allow for at least 1/2 inch motion but not more than 1/4 inch. On the phone I was told that the 3% was volume and that the size change was insignificant. After I got off the phone, the instructions clearly state that the 18 inch dimension will grow to 18.5 inches. That is linear not volume. Allen On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: I forget to consider that wood is everywhere on a wood boat. I was thinking of a sturdy shape to bring the fill point higher off the sole of the cockpit so tipping the can to pour wouldn't be so awkward. It is a problem to get gas to the boat when you have to leave your harbor and go for a long cruise to a dockside fuel station. To fuel up in the south bay, you have to go all the way to coyote point. Helen > > > > >________________________________ > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:56 AM > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > > > >Glass? What's that? I can just use a piece of teak and bond it to the plywood cockpit sole :-) > > >On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >what if you glassed in a tunneltype housing that extended the fill plate up higher off the cockpit floor, perhaps near a corner,that would still allow a dipstick check, and maybe make that first contact with the fill a lot easier to align? Probably could use pvc pipe larger than fuel fill pipe as framework? Helen >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation >> >> >> >>Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. >> >> >>My marina does not want us to use Gerry cans so the added advantage of filling from the cockpit is that nobody can see what I am doing, not that this has been a problem for the 23 years I have been using Gerry cans :-) >> >> >>Joe, I can probably add a small island for the filler and still have it on the cockpit sole. Actually, thinking about it, there would be less water over the deck plate with it mounted in the cockpit then there is now with it on deck. The can is only 7 1/2 inches high and I could not find smaller ones. >> >> >>Thanks for your input. >> >> >>Allen >> >> >> >>On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:33 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use – which is primarily a hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean sailing a thousand or so miles… and then the hundred mile motoring delivery from the ocean to Portland >>> >>>We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring – and have found the cockpit fuel location ideal. >>> >>>The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill: >>> >>>At sea,underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while on starboard tack or downwind… picture hanging overboard trying to stay on board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can. >>> >>>At Shore, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is “outside the boat” (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any spills… if you must use the high flow nozzles. >>> >>>Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank. >>> >>>Cheers, >>> >>>Timm Lessley >>>503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls >>> >>>From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards >>>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM >>>To: je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>> >>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation >>> >>> >>>I am looking for a little help here. >>> >>>I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 gallon gas tank with a 12 gallon plastic tank. I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no longer sticking into the lazzarette. >>> >>>The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go). >>> >>>But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat suggests that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this hose that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea. >>> >>>#3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank. >>> >>>Allen >> >> >> > > >

Thanks Jerry, They didn't actually say more than 1/2 inch and less than 1/4 inch. What they said was allow for 3% expansion and make sure the tank cannot move more than 1/4 inch. I did the math. 3% of 18 inches is 1/2 inch. I am going to assume that their mounting brackets take care of this or else that it is just some cya verbiage so that basically there is no way to get a warranty claim on them :-) I assume people have used these tanks successfully and that everything works out in the end. It is just impossible to get a straight answer from the company. The final response from the company was to ask my local boat yard. Allen On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > Allen, maybe you can use rubber straps to secure the plastic tank? You > could probably adapt rubber straps like the ones used to secure material to > a roof rack, which you can find at a hardware store. Nylon straps or > multiple small diameter nylon cords are another possibility, since nylon > has some stretch to it. Sounds like an opportunity to improvise. Also, a > short section of rubber tube will allow flex in any tank to deck connection. > As far as the directions, I'm sure it's 1/4" but not more than 1/2", an > oversight in editing. > I secure my plastic tank with a small braided nylon line, and it's blocked > in with wood walls so it can't go very far. Maybe a plywood box with an > inner wall of semi-stiff sponge rubber to shim it is the ticket. > Jerry > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:42 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > > I am so frustrated with Moeller tach support. Almost an hour trying to > get a simple question answered. > > The mounting instructions say to allow 3% expansion on the tank. How is > that possible? The tank filler neck will be clamped to the tank and that > short section of hose isn't going to allow for 1/4 inch of motion. > > Even the hold down bracket specification is impossible as I read it. You > must allow for at least 1/2 inch motion but not more than 1/4 inch. > > On the phone I was told that the 3% was volume and that the size change > was insignificant. After I got off the phone, the instructions clearly > state that the 18 inch dimension will grow to 18.5 inches. That is linear > not volume. > > Allen > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > > I forget to consider that wood is everywhere on a wood boat. I was > thinking of a sturdy shape to bring the fill point higher off the sole of > the cockpit so tipping the can to pour wouldn't be so awkward. It is a > problem to get gas to the boat when you have to leave your harbor and go > for a long cruise to a dockside fuel station. To fuel up in the south bay, > you have to go all the way to coyote point. Helen > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:56 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > > Glass? What's that? I can just use a piece of teak and bond it to the > plywood cockpit sole :-) > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > > what if you glassed in a tunneltype housing that extended the fill plate > up higher off the cockpit floor, perhaps near a corner,that would still > allow a dipstick check, and maybe make that first contact with the fill a > lot easier to align? Probably could use pvc pipe larger than fuel fill pipe > as framework? Helen > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation > > > Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a > straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. > > My marina does not want us to use Gerry cans so the added advantage of > filling from the cockpit is that nobody can see what I am doing, not that > this has been a problem for the 23 years I have been using Gerry cans :-) > > Joe, I can probably add a small island for the filler and still have it on > the cockpit sole. Actually, thinking about it, there would be less water > over the deck plate with it mounted in the cockpit then there is now with > it on deck. The can is only 7 1/2 inches high and I could not find smaller > ones. > > Thanks for your input. > > Allen > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:33 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > > ** > > I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use – which is primarily > a hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean > sailing a thousand or so miles… and then the hundred mile motoring delivery > from the ocean to Portland**** > ** ** > We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring – and have > found the cockpit fuel location ideal.**** > ** ** > The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill:**** > ** ** > *At sea,* underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening > is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a > safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up > high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling > some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while > on starboard tack or downwind… picture hanging overboard trying to stay on > board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can.**** > ** ** > *At Shore*, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from > have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is > “outside the boat” (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend > with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any > spills… if you must use the high flow nozzles.**** > ** ** > Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against > water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the > fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank.* > *** > ** ** > Cheers,**** > * * > *[image: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]* > *Timm Lessley* > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > ** ** > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM > *To:* je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > ** ** > **** > I am looking for a little help here.**** > ** ** > I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 > gallon gas tank<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+gas+tank>with a 12 > gallon plastic tank<http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/files/FT1295-1_%282%29.pdf>. > I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good > idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a > year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no > longer sticking into the lazzarette<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank2.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+fuel+filler> > .**** > ** ** > The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from > the top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. > Assuming I need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a > gap between the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the > cockpit sole less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could > always put a small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be > too much in the way where it ends up wanting to go).**** > ** ** > But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat<http://l-36.com/rebuild_joe.php> suggests > that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That > would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like > it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water > still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) > Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this > hose<http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/documents/329A2FUELHOSESpecificationSheet.pdf>that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too > tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea.**** > ** ** > #3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice > between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank.**** > ** ** > Allen**** > **** > > > > > > > > > > >

Allen,

Sounds like good advice. On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:43 PM, john raxter <jr… [at] triad.rr.com> wrote: > ** > > > Allen,**** > > ** ** > > From your post and description, it sounds like they may be warning you of > the “flexible” nature of the polly tank. Empty, it will be straight and > square as fresh from the mold. Full of fuel, on a hot day, the sides may > bulge, up to the 3% (1/2”?)**** > > ** ** > > So putting your tank with in a 1/4 “ of the spinning prop shaft, or > routing the fuel shut off between the tank and the hull, may cause problems! > **** > > ** ** > > They are probably thinking they are doing the right thing, in an attempt > to “idiot proof” their product. Which is impossible of course, and just > tends to frustrate the knowledgeable, intelligent end user that they > actually marketing towards. **** > > ** ** > > If they have the right product, at the right price, you know the right > thing to do. Just try to ignore the over-simplified warnings.**** > > ** ** > > Ymmv**** > > ** ** > > John**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:12 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > > ** ** > > **** > > Thanks Jerry,**** > > ** ** > > They didn't actually say more than 1/2 inch and less than 1/4 inch. What > they said was allow for 3% expansion and make sure the tank cannot move > more than 1/4 inch. I did the math. 3% of 18 inches is 1/2 inch.**** > > ** ** > > I am going to assume that their mounting brackets take care of this or > else that it is just some cya verbiage so that basically there is no way to > get a warranty claim on them :-)**** > > ** ** > > I assume people have used these tanks successfully and that everything > works out in the end. It is just impossible to get a straight answer from > the company. The final response from the company was to ask my local boat > yard.**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote:**** > > Allen, maybe you can use rubber straps to secure the plastic tank? You > could probably adapt rubber straps like the ones used to secure material to > a roof rack, which you can find at a hardware store. Nylon straps or > multiple small diameter nylon cords are another possibility, since nylon > has some stretch to it. Sounds like an opportunity to improvise. Also, a > short section of rubber tube will allow flex in any tank to deck connection. > **** > > As far as the directions, I'm sure it's 1/4" but not more than 1/2", an > oversight in editing.**** > > I secure my plastic tank with a small braided nylon line, and it's blocked > in with wood walls so it can't go very far. Maybe a plywood box with an > inner wall of semi-stiff sponge rubber to shim it is the ticket.**** > > Jerry**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com **** > > *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:42 AM**** > > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > > ** ** > > **** > > I am so frustrated with Moeller tach support. Almost an hour trying to > get a simple question answered.**** > > ** ** > > The mounting instructions say to allow 3% expansion on the tank. How is > that possible? The tank filler neck will be clamped to the tank and that > short section of hose isn't going to allow for 1/4 inch of motion. **** > > ** ** > > Even the hold down bracket specification is impossible as I read it. You > must allow for at least 1/2 inch motion but not more than 1/4 inch.**** > > ** ** > > On the phone I was told that the 3% was volume and that the size change > was insignificant. After I got off the phone, the instructions clearly > state that the 18 inch dimension will grow to 18.5 inches. That is linear > not volume.**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > wrote:**** > > I forget to consider that wood is everywhere on a wood boat. I was > thinking of a sturdy shape to bring the fill point higher off the sole of > the cockpit so tipping the can to pour wouldn't be so awkward. It is a > problem to get gas to the boat when you have to leave your harbor and go > for a long cruise to a dockside fuel station. To fuel up in the south bay, > you have to go all the way to coyote point. Helen**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com **** > > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:56 AM**** > > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > > ** ** > > **** > > Glass? What's that? I can just use a piece of teak and bond it to the > plywood cockpit sole :-)**** > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > wrote:**** > > what if you glassed in a tunneltype housing that extended the fill plate > up higher off the cockpit floor, perhaps near a corner,that would still > allow a dipstick check, and maybe make that first contact with the fill a > lot easier to align? Probably could use pvc pipe larger than fuel fill pipe > as framework? Helen**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:07 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > > ** ** > > **** > > Thanks Timm, very good points. The other advantage I see is that with a > straight shot into the tank, I don't need a fuel gauge, I can use a stick. > **** > > ** ** > > My marina does not want us to use Gerry cans so the added advantage of > filling from the cockpit is that nobody can see what I am doing, not that > this has been a problem for the 23 years I have been using Gerry cans :-)* > *** > > ** ** > > Joe, I can probably add a small island for the filler and still have it on > the cockpit sole. Actually, thinking about it, there would be less water > over the deck plate with it mounted in the cockpit then there is now with > it on deck. The can is only 7 1/2 inches high and I could not find smaller > ones. **** > > ** ** > > Thanks for your input.**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:33 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote:**** > > **** > > I prefer the fill nozzle in the cockpit for my use – which is primarily a > hundred mile motoring delivery to the ocean from Portland, then ocean > sailing a thousand or so miles… and then the hundred mile motoring delivery > from the ocean to Portland**** > > **** > > We have never had a water problem, getting past the O-ring – and have > found the cockpit fuel location ideal.**** > > **** > > The reasons I prefer the cockpit sole fill:**** > > **** > > *At sea,* underway sailing, easy to manage fuel cans to fill. The opening > is centerline and protected from elements, people are also central in a > safer position than outboard locations. My Cal 9.2 has the fill nozzle up > high in the aft quarter, I have to wrestle the fuel can overboard, spilling > some fluid, and I am at flooding odds with a following seas to fuel while > on starboard tack or downwind… picture hanging overboard trying to stay on > board, while using two hands to steady the fuel can.**** > > **** > > *At Shore*, I have noted that the commercial docks that I get fuel from > have very High flow nozzles. The fuel easily burps back. If the nozzle is > “outside the boat” (like the Cal 9.2), then you have a spill to contend > with. With the fill port in the cockpit, you can manage and cleanup any > spills… if you must use the high flow nozzles.**** > > **** > > Because of the high pressure nozzle burping spills and to guard against > water and contaminated fuels, we now refuel using Gerry cans. I can let the > fuel settle, observe (and filter if necessary) before adding to the tank.* > *** > > **** > > Cheers,**** > > * ***** > > *[image: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]***** > > *Timm Lessley***** > > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > > **** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM > *To:* je… [at] mindspring.com; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com**** > > > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Gas Tank Installation**** > > **** > > **** > > I am looking for a little help here.**** > > **** > > I am going to replace my galvanized perfectly good but 20 year old 18 > gallon gas tank<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+gas+tank>with a 12 > gallon plastic tank<http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/files/FT1295-1_%282%29.pdf>. > I have to take it out anyway for some upcoming work so seems like a good > idea. The smaller size will allow me to fill the tank more then once a > year. It can also fit completely under the cockpit sole so that it is no > longer sticking into the lazzarette<http://l-36.com/display_pic.php?pic_name=tank2.jpg&pic_title=Papoose+fuel+filler> > .**** > > **** > > The issue is that I calculate that I will have only 1 1/2 inches from the > top of the tank filler tube to the bottom of the cockpit sole. Assuming I > need 2 inches of overlap for the filler hose, this would give a gap between > the deck plate and the tank filler of the thickness of the cockpit sole > less 1/2 inch or 1/8 inch. Pretty tight but doable. (I could always put a > small spacer on the cockpit sole if needed as it would not be too much in > the way where it ends up wanting to go).**** > > **** > > But Joe's excellent article on Repowering Your Sailboat<http://l-36.com/rebuild_joe.php> suggests > that you should not put the fuel deck plate on the cockpit sole. That > would give me two choices. 1) Move the tank out into the lazzarette like > it is now so there is clearance above the filler tube on the tank. Water > still flows over the filler up there on deck but maybe it isn't as bad. 2) > Fine a very sharp 90 degree bend hose to attach to the tank. Trident makes this > hose<http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/documents/329A2FUELHOSESpecificationSheet.pdf>that they claim makes tight bends but I think my bend needs to be too > tight. 3) Come up with another bright idea.**** > > **** > > #3 is where I am looking for ideas as well as opinions on the choice > between 1 and 2 if 3 ends up blank.**** > > **** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > **** > > >