Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging

I replaced my backstay with the dynez dux when I added a cascade system. The stuff is rated for 36K lbs. I asked my rigger about using dynex dux on the Upper or lower stays and he was not comfortable about it. Maybe in time. I am om my 3rd year with the backstay. I would think the only concern would be the threads You finish/whip it with. I am always checking it for sun rot. I used a much smaller dyneema on the halyard. I figure this gets more wear and tear than the rig. I love working with this stuff. once you get it streched in place, you are set. Main reason, I like the security of knowing there is no corrorison in the swedges. I was on my second backstay because of the swedges corroded and split the lower swedge. I don't know what it is about the backstay, The same rigger did my upper and lower shrouds and no stress cracks as of yet. Maybe this year. So far we have sailed in more 25 plus Knots of wind and 9ft or greater seas than the 12 years I have owned her. Looks like another heavy air weekend for this weekends Spring Series #2. Randy Cal 2_29 Out Patient Channel Islands Ca chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Greets: For the lads that race, anyone tried this or similar systems? Just wondering how they perform and stand the test of time. http://www.strongrope.com/fibre-rigging.htm -- /ch

My friend replaced his forestay with Dynex Dux and his backstay with Amsteel before doing the last single handed Transpac nearly 2 years ago. He was going to replace rod with rod but the cost caused him to look at synthetic. Lots of chafe protection everywhere. It was working great. About 9 months ago he adjusted the radar reflector on the backstay, a month later the rig was strangely loose, he checked on it and discovered a couple of strands left that the reflector hadn't chafed through. He's also going to replace the forestay before this summer on spec.. He's perfectly happy, loves it. Easy to make new, easy to replace, low cost. My opinion is almost the opposite, he's having to check for and renew chafe protection regularly. For me it's an annual check for broken strands and cracks in the swages for my wire rope. Rigging I've had to replace I've used StaLoks. I don't have a problem with synthetic standing rigging, but I want less maintenance, not more. John From: Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging I replaced my backstay with the dynez dux when I added a cascade system. The stuff is rated for 36K lbs. I asked my rigger about using dynex dux on the Upper or lower stays and he was not comfortable about it. Maybe in time. I am om my 3rd year with the backstay. I would think the only concern would be the threads You finish/whip it with. I am always checking it for sun rot. I used a much smaller dyneema on the halyard. I figure this gets more wear and tear than the rig. I love working with this stuff. once you get it streched in place, you are set. Main reason, I like the security of knowing there is no corrorison in the swedges. I was on my second backstay because of the swedges corroded and split the lower swedge. I don't know what it is about the backstay, The same rigger did my upper and lower shrouds and no stress cracks as of yet. Maybe this year. So far we have sailed in more 25 plus Knots of wind and 9ft or greater seas than the 12 years I have owned her. Looks like another heavy air weekend for this weekends Spring Series #2. Randy Cal 2_29 Out Patient Channel Islands Ca chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Greets: For the lads that race, anyone tried this or similar systems? Just wondering how they perform and stand the test of time. http://www.strongrope.com/fibre-rigging.htm -- /ch

Thanks all...I was just wondering as I saw the article and it looked interesting. Chaffing would be the major issue but it looks like if you set it up properly you can eliminate most of those issues. Strength wise, there should be no difference but then there is the stretching issue. Just wanted to know if it was worth further reading and investigating and from you tell me it is. Its an interesting topic. Best and kind regards /ch

The stuff you referenced is pre stretched, unlike Amsteel. There is also a version that has a cover so there is virtually no chaffing issue. Personally, I like my wire rigging but I would assume next time I will use the synthetics. I think that is another 6 years out. Allen On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:57 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > ** > > > Thanks all...I was just wondering as I saw the article and it looked > interesting. Chaffing would be the major issue but it looks like if you set > it up properly you can eliminate most of those issues. Strength wise, there > should be no difference but then there is the stretching issue. Just wanted > to know if it was worth further reading and investigating and from you tell > me it is. Its an interesting topic. > > Best and kind regards > > /ch > > >

One of the guys I race with and against has a J29. He changed his life lines to a hi tech line with special fittings so he could work on it himself. During a race the windward line came out of the fitting while two men were hiked out and they went overboard right Into the entrance of The Los Angeles Light House....a major shipping lane! Mark Cal2-29 San Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Edwards To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging The stuff you referenced is pre stretched, unlike Amsteel. There is also a version that has a cover so there is virtually no chaffing issue. Personally, I like my wire rigging but I would assume next time I will use the synthetics. I think that is another 6 years out. Allen On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:57 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Thanks all...I was just wondering as I saw the article and it looked interesting. Chaffing would be the major issue but it looks like if you set it up properly you can eliminate most of those issues. Strength wise, there should be no difference but then there is the stretching issue. Just wanted to know if it was worth further reading and investigating and from you tell me it is. Its an interesting topic. Best and kind regards /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

There is no reason that should happen. You cannot say it is the fault of the line. All you need for lifelines termination is an eye splice but you do need to lock the eye either with a brummel or a lock stitch. I used Amsteel for my lower lifeline and have used normal shackles as well as lashings for the terminations at various times. I think I even used just a bunch of knots. Knots slip on Amsteel, but 20 knots, not so much. But don't blame the line because of a failure due to poor workmanship. But do be sure you know what you are doing if you do it yourself. Allen On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) < ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > ** > > > ** > One of the guys I race with and against has a J29. He changed his life > lines to a hi tech line with special fittings so he could work on it > himself. During a race the windward line came out of the fitting while two > men were hiked out and they went overboard right Into the entrance of The > Los Angeles Light House....a major shipping lane! > Mark > Cal2-29 > San Pedro > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:01 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging > > > > The stuff you referenced is pre stretched, unlike Amsteel. There is also > a version that has a cover so there is virtually no chaffing issue. > Personally, I like my wire rigging but I would assume next time I will use > the synthetics. I think that is another 6 years out. > > Allen > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:57 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Thanks all...I was just wondering as I saw the article and it looked >> interesting. Chaffing would be the major issue but it looks like if you set >> it up properly you can eliminate most of those issues. Strength wise, there >> should be no difference but then there is the stretching issue. Just wanted >> to know if it was worth further reading and investigating and from you tell >> me it is. Its an interesting topic. >> >> Best and kind regards >> >> /ch >> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > >

I used a stainless steel nipple and a lace splice to tie my 1/8 Amsteel onto it. I'm not sure what that knot I just described as a lace splice is, but I can tell you I weaved the line over and under in a long series of figure eights. A real rigging shop can do a spice on the line on the single braid if need be, but I know that figure eight thingy is real strong and not going anywhere. I think the breaking strength on the 1/8 silver Amsteel is something like 1800 lbs, and the 3/6" approaches 3000#. The only issue with the stuff is 'creep' when it is under constant tension, and it elongates; that's why I abandoned the idea of using the stuff for my jumper struts and went to stainless steel. There is another version of the stuff which has a lot less creep. However I use the stuff for my main halyard 'cause its real flexible and has very little windage, and it doesn't creep that much over a short period of time. Going ass over tea kettle in the Los Angeles Light house entrance must have been quite a surprise, and I bet the skipper was pretty embarrassed, but made for a good sea story if no one was hurt. The water is plenty cold but not so much as in SF Bay.(my nephew and pretty niece in law to be were describing their Alcatraz swim while I took them sailing on President's Day) I think the Queen's gate entrance is even much busier, but I've notice the shipping/container ship traffic seems to be down since the Great Recession. Lots of island ferries and powerboats zooming thru there, tho...but yachts, private boats, not like in the golden olden days. I guess the stink potters can't afford the gas! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging There is no reason that should happen. You cannot say it is the fault of the line. All you need for lifelines termination is an eye splice but you do need to lock the eye either with a brummel or a lock stitch. I used Amsteel for my lower lifeline and have used normal shackles as well as lashings for the terminations at various times. I think I even used just a bunch of knots. Knots slip on Amsteel, but 20 knots, not so much. But don't blame the line because of a failure due to poor workmanship. But do be sure you know what you are doing if you do it yourself. Allen On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > >One of the guys I race with and against has a J29. He changed his life lines to a hi tech line with special fittings so he could work on it himself. During a race the windward line came out of the fitting while two men were hiked out and they went overboard right Into the entrance of The Los Angeles Light House....a major shipping lane! >Mark >Cal2-29 >San Pedro > > >----- Original Message ----- >>From: Allen Edwards >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:01 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging >> >> >>The stuff you referenced is pre stretched, unlike Amsteel. There is also a version that has a cover so there is virtually no chaffing issue. Personally, I like my wire rigging but I would assume next time I will use the synthetics. I think that is another 6 years out. >> >> >>Allen >> >> >>On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:57 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>Thanks all...I was just wondering as I saw the article and it looked interesting. Chaffing would be the major issue but it looks like if you set it up properly you can eliminate most of those issues. Strength wise, there should be no difference but then there is the stretching issue. Just wanted to know if it was worth further reading and investigating and from you tell me it is. Its an interesting topic. >>> >>>Best and kind regards >>> >>>/ch >>> >>> >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com >

The best part of the incident was the owner loves sitting on the low side where he can see around the headsail. He did not know for about 5 minutes that his crew had gone into the water! It took about 40 minutes to get them aboard and without life jackets. Poetic justice....Just prior, Stan Lewis in his Cal 29 had come as close as he could on port tack, causing name unmentioned to throw a few fff words at maximum volume as he was on starboard tack and chose to give up a couple degrees which Stan was more than happy to accept. I guess that's why they call it the F.E.A.R. Regatta. Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Sobel To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging I used a stainless steel nipple and a lace splice to tie my 1/8 Amsteel onto it. I'm not sure what that knot I just described as a lace splice is, but I can tell you I weaved the line over and under in a long series of figure eights. A real rigging shop can do a spice on the line on the single braid if need be, but I know that figure eight thingy is real strong and not going anywhere. I think the breaking strength on the 1/8 silver Amsteel is something like 1800 lbs, and the 3/6" approaches 3000#. The only issue with the stuff is 'creep' when it is under constant tension, and it elongates; that's why I abandoned the idea of using the stuff for my jumper struts and went to stainless steel. There is another version of the stuff which has a lot less creep. However I use the stuff for my main halyard 'cause its real flexible and has very little windage, and it doesn't creep that much over a short period of time. Going ass over tea kettle in the Los Angeles Light house entrance must have been quite a surprise, and I bet the skipper was pretty embarrassed, but made for a good sea story if no one was hurt. The water is plenty cold but not so much as in SF Bay.(my nephew and pretty niece in law to be were describing their Alcatraz swim while I took them sailing on President's Day) I think the Queen's gate entrance is even much busier, but I've notice the shipping/container ship traffic seems to be down since the Great Recession. Lots of island ferries and powerboats zooming thru there, tho...but yachts, private boats, not like in the golden olden days. I guess the stink potters can't afford the gas! Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging There is no reason that should happen. You cannot say it is the fault of the line. All you need for lifelines termination is an eye splice but you do need to lock the eye either with a brummel or a lock stitch. I used Amsteel for my lower lifeline and have used normal shackles as well as lashings for the terminations at various times. I think I even used just a bunch of knots. Knots slip on Amsteel, but 20 knots, not so much. But don't blame the line because of a failure due to poor workmanship. But do be sure you know what you are doing if you do it yourself. Allen On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: One of the guys I race with and against has a J29. He changed his life lines to a hi tech line with special fittings so he could work on it himself. During a race the windward line came out of the fitting while two men were hiked out and they went overboard right Into the entrance of The Los Angeles Light House....a major shipping lane! Mark Cal2-29 San Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Edwards To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging The stuff you referenced is pre stretched, unlike Amsteel. There is also a version that has a cover so there is virtually no chaffing issue. Personally, I like my wire rigging but I would assume next time I will use the synthetics. I think that is another 6 years out. Allen On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:57 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Thanks all...I was just wondering as I saw the article and it looked interesting. Chaffing would be the major issue but it looks like if you set it up properly you can eliminate most of those issues. Strength wise, there should be no difference but then there is the stretching issue. Just wanted to know if it was worth further reading and investigating and from you tell me it is. Its an interesting topic. Best and kind regards /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6910 (20120224) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6910 (20120224) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Here is a neat way to splice Amsteel (or any other 12 strand line) http://l-36.com/brummel2.php Allen On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > I used a stainless steel nipple and a lace splice to tie my 1/8 Amsteel > onto it. I'm not sure what that knot I just described as a lace splice is, > but I can tell you I weaved the line over and under in a long series of > figure eights. A real rigging shop can do a spice on the line on the single > braid if need be, but I know that figure eight thingy is real strong and > not going anywhere. I think the breaking strength on the 1/8 silver Amsteel > is something like 1800 lbs, and the 3/6" approaches 3000#. The only issue > with the stuff is 'creep' when it is under constant tension, and it > elongates; that's why I abandoned the idea of using the stuff for my jumper > struts and went to stainless steel. There is another version of the stuff > which has a lot less creep. However I use the stuff for my main halyard > 'cause its real flexible and has very little windage, and it doesn't creep > that much over a short period of time. > > Going ass over tea kettle in the Los Angeles Light house entrance must > have been quite a surprise, and I bet the skipper was pretty embarrassed, > but made for a good sea story if no one was hurt. The water is plenty cold > but not so much as in SF Bay.(my nephew and pretty niece in law to be were > describing their Alcatraz swim while I took them sailing on President's > Day) I think the Queen's gate entrance is even much busier, but I've notice > the shipping/container ship traffic seems to be down since the Great > Recession. Lots of island ferries and powerboats zooming thru there, > tho...but yachts, private boats, not like in the golden olden days. I guess > the stink potters can't afford the gas! > Jerry > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:03 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging > > > There is no reason that should happen. You cannot say it is the fault of > the line. All you need for lifelines termination is an eye splice but you > do need to lock the eye either with a brummel or a lock stitch. I used > Amsteel for my lower lifeline and have used normal shackles as well as > lashings for the terminations at various times. I think I even used just a > bunch of knots. Knots slip on Amsteel, but 20 knots, not so much. But > don't blame the line because of a failure due to poor workmanship. But do > be sure you know what you are doing if you do it yourself. > > Allen > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) < > ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > ** > > ** > One of the guys I race with and against has a J29. He changed his life > lines to a hi tech line with special fittings so he could work on it > himself. During a race the windward line came out of the fitting while two > men were hiked out and they went overboard right Into the entrance of The > Los Angeles Light House....a major shipping lane! > Mark > Cal2-29 > San Pedro > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:01 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] metal-less standing rigging > > > The stuff you referenced is pre stretched, unlike Amsteel. There is also > a version that has a cover so there is virtually no chaffing issue. > Personally, I like my wire rigging but I would assume next time I will use > the synthetics. I think that is another 6 years out. > > Allen > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:57 AM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > > ** > > Thanks all...I was just wondering as I saw the article and it looked > interesting. Chaffing would be the major issue but it looks like if you set > it up properly you can eliminate most of those issues. Strength wise, there > should be no difference but then there is the stretching issue. Just wanted > to know if it was worth further reading and investigating and from you tell > me it is. Its an interesting topic. > > Best and kind regards > > /ch > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 6905 (20120222) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > >