Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27

My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

Matt, Some advocate tillers. Personally, I like the wheel on our 2-27. It is an aftermarket Edson, installed by a PO, using a pull-pull conduit setup with the quadrant. Price the parts out. It's not cheap. It may be cost prohibitive. As for an autopilot, the ONLY suitable one I am aware of is the Raymarine X-5 Wheel Pilot for our setup. I'll be happy to provide photos. --Michael-- s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL From: matthewwenman <mw… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

Many will use a hiking stick and sit up on the cockpit coaming. You should have minimum crew in the cock pit (helmsman and one on the mainsheet after the tack) and the crew on the rail or on the jib as needed. Normally, we have no more than 4 in the cockpit during tacks when racing. Anyway that's my experience. Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: matthewwenman To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 5:59 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6878 (20120212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6878 (20120212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Cal 40. At one time we had a wheel mounted over the top of the rudder as below. It was a pretty simple implementation, the quadrant simply went to a fitting on the rudder post head verses the tiller fitting. I sold the unit at a marine store a long time ago... but maybe an idea? [cid:image002.jpg@01CCE9C4.909A87D0] [cid:image007.jpg@01CCE9C4.909A87D0] Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthewwenman Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

[cid:image002.jpg@01CCE9C5.91DF6E70] Sailing with the wheel... when the boat was in Muskegon. Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthewwenman Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

[cid:image002.jpg@01CCE9C6.54230780] 10 sailor crew on a Cal 40, with a tiller. Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthewwenman Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

My 227 had a shorter tiller on it when I got it and I replaced it with a longer one like the original one. On tacks we have developed what we call our dance to get everyone in and out of the cockpit while minimizing interference. Once the tack is completed we have only two, myself and the main sheet crew, she gets goosed once in awhile, but she seems to like it. _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthewwenman Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 9:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

Hi Timm, For whatever reason the pictures didn't come through/show up on your message... maybe you want to post them in an album. Also, you could send them to me off list... mw… [at] gmail.com Matt --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > Cal 40. > > At one time we had a wheel mounted over the top of the rudder as below. > > It was a pretty simple implementation, the quadrant simply went to a fitting on the rudder post head > verses the tiller fitting. > > I sold the unit at a marine store a long time ago... but maybe an idea? > > [cid:image002.jpg@...] > [cid:image007.jpg@...] > > Cheers, > > [cid:image005.png@...] > Timm Lessley > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthewwenman > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:00 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 > > > > My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. > > Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? > > Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... > > Matt >

I just sold my Cal 34 but it was also a tiller and i wanted the helm so i changed it. Edson can get you a kit put togeather or you can just part on together yourself. I used the pedistool from a islander 32 that was being scraped so this saved me about 800 bucks paid 500 for the assembly and then went to Edson for all the other under deck and rudder post parts and Advise. the also did not mind helping me with info and Questions i had about my project even though it was not there pedistool i was using. Edson Marine .com http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/wheel_conversion/index.php From: matthewwenman <mw… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 12, 2012 5:59:51 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

YUP! Only wussus need a wheel under 43 feet! My Best, Mike From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:39 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 10 sailor crew on a Cal 40, with a tiller. Cheers, Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthewwenman Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

When I had a 30' boat with a tiller I thought I should have a wheel. 30 years later I wish I had a tiller and an aft cockpit on a CAL 2-46. Nice thing about tillers and cruising is that they can be swung out of the way at anchor. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 YUP! Only wussus need a wheel under 43 feet! My Best, Mike From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:39 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 10 sailor crew on a Cal 40, with a tiller. Cheers, Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthewwenman Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

I have always had a preference for a longer tiller rather than a shorter one. Better leverage and feel. We just had to work it out with the crew as to what their best tacking position would be while they still could get their line pulling and winch grinding leverage. I give lessons on winch work based on my years as a sailing grunt. There is some dependence on the relative position of the jib winches and the driver. I also know some folks who have moved their jib winches up onto the deck. A definite solution (that I am not partial to due to the extra runs of line). As far as wheels go, I prefer tillers. I have periodically driven wheel boats, and it takes me a while to get a feel, so I am not one to really address this, other than to say that a big wheel is better than a small wheel for the same reasons that a longer tiller is better. Of course in the limit of big wheelness, the driver is stuck back in the stern. If he/she begs, you help to extract them. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wyatt Hendricks Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:17 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 When I had a 30' boat with a tiller I thought I should have a wheel. 30 years later I wish I had a tiller and an aft cockpit on a CAL 2-46. Nice thing about tillers and cruising is that they can be swung out of the way at anchor. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 YUP! Only wussus need a wheel under 43 feet! My Best, Mike

I think the biggest problem is the crew shuffle when tacking. On my boat, I cut the jib sheet, then swing the tiller vertically, stand up and rotate my body facing the stern of the boat, switching hands as I do so. With me at the stern and the tiller up in the air, the crew doesn't have to trip over it. I've had that problem where the skipper is forward and holding on to the tiller, so you have to climb over it while the tiller is swinging, which tends to be an obstacle. The nice thing about the tiller is you know exactly where the rudder is pointing all the time, and with an extension, it gives you great flexibility as to where you want to sit and steer. I love my telescopic steering extension! Jerry From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 I have always had a preference for a longer tiller rather than a shorter one. Better leverage and feel. We just had to work it out with the crew as to what their best tacking position would be while they still could get their line pulling and winch grinding leverage. I give lessons on winch work based on my years as a sailing grunt. There is some dependence on the relative position of the jib winches and the driver. I also know some folks who have moved their jib winches up onto the deck. A definite solution (that I am not partial to due to the extra runs of line). As far as wheels go, I prefer tillers. I have periodically driven wheel boats, and it takes me a while to get a feel, so I am not one to really address this, other than to say that a big wheel is better than a small wheel for the same reasons that a longer tiller is better. Of course in the limit of big wheelness, the driver is stuck back in the stern. If he/she begs, you help to extract them. Cheers Charlie From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wyatt Hendricks Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:17 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 When I had a 30’ boat with a tiller I thought I should have a wheel. 30 years later I wish I had a tiller and an aft cockpit on a CAL 2-46. Nice thing about tillers and cruising is that they can be swung out of the way at anchor. From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 YUP! Only wussus need a wheel under 43 feet! My Best, Mike

Jerry, what do you use for an extender. On the 25, I use the Forespar with the rubbery ball on the end. While they work, they work very well, and I like them. Once they bust (too often), they are unfixable. I’ve contacted Forespar on repair a few times, and was roundly ignored. I have quite a collection of them in various states of disrepair. But I still like to use them. My crew has gotten used to the dance around the swinging tiller. It’s just part of the gig. Cheers Cjharlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:56 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 I think the biggest problem is the crew shuffle when tacking. On my boat, I cut the jib sheet, then swing the tiller vertically, stand up and rotate my body facing the stern of the boat, switching hands as I do so. With me at the stern and the tiller up in the air, the crew doesn't have to trip over it. I've had that problem where the skipper is forward and holding on to the tiller, so you have to climb over it while the tiller is swinging, which tends to be an obstacle. The nice thing about the tiller is you know exactly where the rudder is pointing all the time, and with an extension, it gives you great flexibility as to where you want to sit and steer. I love my telescopic steering extension! Jerry From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 I have always had a preference for a longer tiller rather than a shorter one. Better leverage and feel. We just had to work it out with the crew as to what their best tacking position would be while they still could get their line pulling and winch grinding leverage. I give lessons on winch work based on my years as a sailing grunt. There is some dependence on the relative position of the jib winches and the driver. I also know some folks who have moved their jib winches up onto the deck. A definite solution (that I am not partial to due to the extra runs of line). As far as wheels go, I prefer tillers. I have periodically driven wheel boats, and it takes me a while to get a feel, so I am not one to really address this, other than to say that a big wheel is better than a small wheel for the same reasons that a longer tiller is better. Of course in the limit of big wheelness, the driver is stuck back in the stern. If he/she begs, you help to extract them. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wyatt Hendricks Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:17 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 When I had a 30’ boat with a tiller I thought I should have a wheel. 30 years later I wish I had a tiller and an aft cockpit on a CAL 2-46. Nice thing about tillers and cruising is that they can be swung out of the way at anchor. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike farrell Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 YUP! Only wussus need a wheel under 43 feet! My Best, Mike

remember wheel cost $2500 -$4000...and auto pilot extra !000.. once hook up the auto does care which ..... plus you can not scull a wheel .... sell that brick and get lower PHRF....IE cal 29 0r cal 36 ...edward (HELEN) From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 YUP! Only wussus need a wheel under 43 feet! My Best, Mike From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:39 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 10 sailor crew on a Cal 40, with a tiller. Cheers, Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthewwenman Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... Matt

Charlie, You didn't ask me but I just had to chime in. I use this one Forespar extender<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=14486&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50045&subdeptNum=50145&classNum=50146>. I bent two of them at first but none in a long time. I have no idea how they bent, probably had a crew sit on it or something but I am more careful and so is the crew. One I straightened out myself and it works fine. The other I called Forespar and they told me to take it back to Westmarine and get a warranty replacement, which I did. I guess I didn't tell West that the one they were replacing was the one from Defender, they just looked up the one I bought from them. I told Forespar that it was probably our fault but the guy said they should not bend and told me to get it replaced. So, experiences vary. I must say I have bent everything I bought from Forespar. We bent both sections of the whisker pole and two tiller extenders. The whisker pole costs about $300 to repair and takes me all day. The tiller extenders, not such a big deal. Allen On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > ** > > > Jerry, what do you use for an extender. On the 25, I use the Forespar > with the rubbery ball on the end. While they work, they work very well, > and I like them. Once they bust (too often), they are unfixable. I’ve > contacted Forespar on repair a few times, and was roundly ignored. I have > quite a collection of them in various states of disrepair. But I still > like to use them.**** > > ** ** > > My crew has gotten used to the dance around the swinging tiller. It’s > just part of the gig.**** > > ** ** > > Cheers**** > > Cjharlie **** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Gerald Sobel > *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 7:56 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27**** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > I think the biggest problem is the crew shuffle when tacking. On my boat, > I cut the jib sheet, then swing the tiller vertically, stand up and rotate > my body facing the stern of the boat, switching hands as I do so. With me > at the stern and the tiller up in the air, the crew doesn't have to trip > over it. I've had that problem where the skipper is forward and holding on > to the tiller, so you have to climb over it while the tiller is swinging, > which tends to be an obstacle.**** > > The nice thing about the tiller is you know exactly where the rudder is > pointing all the time, and with an extension, it gives you great > flexibility as to where you want to sit and steer. I love my telescopic > steering extension!**** > > Jerry**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 1:30 PM > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27**** > > ** ** > > **** > > I have always had a preference for a longer tiller rather than a shorter > one. Better leverage and feel. We just had to work it out with the crew > as to what their best tacking position would be while they still could get > their line pulling and winch grinding leverage. I give lessons on winch > work based on my years as a sailing grunt. There is some dependence on the > relative position of the jib winches and the driver. I also know some > folks who have moved their jib winches up onto the deck. A definite > solution (that I am not partial to due to the extra runs of line).**** > > **** > > As far as wheels go, I prefer tillers. I have periodically driven wheel > boats, and it takes me a while to get a feel, so I am not one to really > address this, other than to say that a big wheel is better than a small > wheel for the same reasons that a longer tiller is better. Of course in > the limit of big wheelness, the driver is stuck back in the stern. If > he/she begs, you help to extract them.**** > > **** > > Cheers**** > > Charlie**** > > **** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Wyatt Hendricks > *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 4:17 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27**** > > **** > > > > **** > > When I had a 30’ boat with a tiller I thought I should have a wheel.**** > > **** > > 30 years later I wish I had a tiller and an aft cockpit on a CAL 2-46.**** > > **** > > Nice thing about tillers and cruising is that they can be swung out of the > way at anchor.**** > > **** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *mike farrell > *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 4:01 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27**** > > **** > > YUP! Only wussus need a wheel under 43 feet!**** > > My Best, Mike**** > > **** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > **** > > >

On 2/12/2012 10:33 PM, ti… [at] ch2m.com wrote: > > Sailing with the wheel... when the boat was in Muskegon. > Back in 1994, I needed to find a job. I had been eased out the door at my former firm in Lansing, MI, which is as far from any water as you can get in Michigan. I found a new job in Traverse City, on Lake Michigan's Grand Traverse Bay, a place where half the state goes on vacation and the other half wants to move. As B'rer Rabbit said, "please don't throw me in the briar patch." But that meant a move of 170 miles, and it meant shedding lots of possessions. So I packed up my accumulated /Sailing /magazines and hauled 'em off as donations to the local library sale. One box was the old, large-format B&W issues, probably including the one you've posted. Another box or two held the more recent issues. As soon as I got moved, I realized that giving away those back issues had been a monumental blunder, and I called an old friend to retrieve them from the library. I got back a box of the modern color issues but my old B&W ones were gone. Seeing that cover reminds me of what I don't have. But on the other hand, now I've got my pretty Cal 20 within 1-1/2 miles of where I live, and in theory I could go to the boat and sail anywhere in the world, so life ain't too bad. Chris Campbell > >

On 2/13/2012 4:16 PM, Wyatt Hendricks wrote: > > When I had a 30' boat with a tiller I thought I should have a wheel. > > 30 years later I wish I had a tiller and an aft cockpit on a CAL 2-46. > One of my strategies for dull meetings was to plan ways to mount a wheel on my other boat, which is 26' and tiller-steered. The tiller took up a lot of geography in the cockpit with its big arc. The wheel would make room for lots of legs. But eventually I came to appreciate just how much information the tiller gives you about sail choice and trim and about how efficiently you're sailing. Now I just try to avoid dull meetings altogether and I love my tillers. Our local historic schooner is wheel-steered via a worm gear arrangement (not really a worm gear--it's a long threaded shaft with a travelling follower on it--what's that called, engineers?). You can let go of the wheel and nothing happens, because the follower device can't rotate the wheel shaft. That's cool, but it also means that there's not much feedback. One of our captains has a magic touch and can feel when it's time to reduce sail or whatever, but for me, it's like steering via remote control. Chris Campbell > >

On 2/13/2012 8:43 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > Jerry, what do you use for an extender. On the 25, I use the Forespar > with the rubbery ball on the end. While they work, they work very > well, and I like them. Once they bust (too often), they are > unfixable. I’ve contacted Forespar on repair a few times, and was > roundly ignored. I have quite a collection of them in various states > of disrepair. But I still like to use them. > My Cal 20 has a really cool extension made by the original owner. He was both frugal and capable, so it's fun to see his work on the boat. It reminds me of him every time I look at it. He was an old guy when I was young, and two intervening owners had the boat, and now I'm her custodian. (And now, I add, I'm an old guy). The tiller extension is a mahogany stick, joinder to the tiller with a stainless gooseneck that he made out of sheet stainless and a rivet with washers as the pivot. I'll take a photo at home tonight. It's probably 35 years old and still working. The extension is the only thing I ever steer with, an essential device if ever there was one. Chris Campbell > >

On Freewind, The handle is indexed onto the autopilot pin, and secure via a Velcro tape. When stored plenty of room for tacking or downwind driving. [cid:image006.jpg@01CCEB1B.919B2510] Then deployed for upwind driving. [cid:image007.jpg@01CCEB1B.919B2510] The handle extends via pinlocks, and allows two handed driving. Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:15 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tiller/Wheel Cal 2-27 On 2/13/2012 8:43 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: Jerry, what do you use for an extender. On the 25, I use the Forespar with the rubbery ball on the end. While they work, they work very well, and I like them. Once they bust (too often), they are unfixable. I’ve contacted Forespar on repair a few times, and was roundly ignored. I have quite a collection of them in various states of disrepair. But I still like to use them. My Cal 20 has a really cool extension made by the original owner. He was both frugal and capable, so it's fun to see his work on the boat. It reminds me of him every time I look at it. He was an old guy when I was young, and two intervening owners had the boat, and now I'm her custodian. (And now, I add, I'm an old guy). The tiller extension is a mahogany stick, joinder to the tiller with a stainless gooseneck that he made out of sheet stainless and a rivet with washers as the pivot. I'll take a photo at home tonight. It's probably 35 years old and still working. The extension is the only thing I ever steer with, an essential device if ever there was one. Chris Campbell

Matt, When I went to replace the original tiller on Candy Cane (Cal 27 pop-top) the tiller sent me was way too short to use. Turned out to fit 2-27's. The tiller I had made (H-K in California) was perfect. Our tiller is 60" long (same as a Cal 3-30), and the one I sent back was only about 30". I wonder if yours is the original? Straight or big Z bend? Regards, Dave Leasia s/v Candy Cane '72 Cal 27 p-t Lake St. Clair, MI --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "matthewwenman" <mwenman@...> wrote: > > My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. > > Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? > > Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... > > > Matt >

Dave, what is the width of the fork? The tillers I use on my 25s are available in stores and on-line as parts for an O'day 27. Just a little creativity. http://www.apsltd.com/c-263-laminated-wood-tillers.aspx There are other models. Note they come from H&L Marine Woodworking in CA. I prefer the F/G design to that C model shown for the 25. Many lengths and widths are available. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Telephone Dave Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Tiller for Cal 2-27 Matt, When I went to replace the original tiller on Candy Cane (Cal 27 pop-top) the tiller sent me was way too short to use. Turned out to fit 2-27's. The tiller I had made (H-K in California) was perfect. Our tiller is 60" long (same as a Cal 3-30), and the one I sent back was only about 30". I wonder if yours is the original? Straight or big Z bend? Regards, Dave Leasia s/v Candy Cane '72 Cal 27 p-t Lake St. Clair, MI --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "matthewwenman" <mwenman@...> wrote: > > My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. > > Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? > > Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... > > > Matt > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Dave, The H/K tiller for the 3-30 is their number 139. It was also used on a couple of other boats. I am ordering new one through Fisheries Supply as mine is delaminated and rotted out in several spots. For the past year Nemesis' tiller has been held together by hose clamps. But they are "marine grade" hose clamps. It's blowing 15-25 kts out of the southwest. Racing tomorrow on the Sound. Yahoo! Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Feb 24, 2012, at 1:21 PM, Telephone Dave wrote: > Matt, > When I went to replace the original tiller on Candy Cane (Cal 27 > pop-top) the tiller sent me was way too short to use. Turned out to > fit 2-27's. The tiller I had made (H-K in California) was perfect. > Our tiller is 60" long (same as a Cal 3-30), and the one I sent > back was only about 30". I wonder if yours is the original? > Straight or big Z bend? > > Regards, > > Dave Leasia > s/v Candy Cane > '72 Cal 27 p-t > Lake St. Clair, MI > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "matthewwenman" <mwenman@...> wrote: > > > > My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When > doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I > really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in > the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. > > > > Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the > helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? > > > > Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model > to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models > came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or > if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As > well as give you better perspective will steering... > > > > > > Matt > > > >

Fred, I like the hose clamps thing. I typically have used duct tape (lots of it). Blowing 30 here today. Fortunately, we do not race till tomorrow. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Haas Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 2:17 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Tiller for Cal 2-27 Dave, The H/K tiller for the 3-30 is their number 139. It was also used on a couple of other boats. I am ordering new one through Fisheries Supply as mine is delaminated and rotted out in several spots. For the past year Nemesis' tiller has been held together by hose clamps. But they are "marine grade" hose clamps. It's blowing 15-25 kts out of the southwest. Racing tomorrow on the Sound. Yahoo! Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Feb 24, 2012, at 1:21 PM, Telephone Dave wrote: Matt, When I went to replace the original tiller on Candy Cane (Cal 27 pop-top) the tiller sent me was way too short to use. Turned out to fit 2-27's. The tiller I had made (H-K in California) was perfect. Our tiller is 60" long (same as a Cal 3-30), and the one I sent back was only about 30". I wonder if yours is the original? Straight or big Z bend? Regards, Dave Leasia s/v Candy Cane '72 Cal 27 p-t Lake St. Clair, MI --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, "matthewwenman" <mwenman@...> wrote: > > My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and making it difficult to work together. > > Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What is your race/tacking routine? > > Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... > > > Matt >

From: Fred Haas <ca… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 25, 2012 2:16:53 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Tiller for Cal 2-27 Dave, The H/K tiller for the 3-30 is their number 139. It was also used on a couple of other boats. I am ordering new one through Fisheries Supply as mine is delaminated and rotted out in several spots. For the past year Nemesis' tiller has been held together by hose clamps. But they are "marine grade" hose clamps. It's blowing 15-25 kts out of the southwest. Racing tomorrow on the Sound. Yahoo! Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Feb 24, 2012, at 1:21 PM, Telephone Dave wrote: >Matt, >When I went to replace the original tiller on Candy Cane (Cal 27 pop-top) the >tiller sent me was way too short to use. Turned out to fit 2-27's. The tiller I >had made (H-K in California) was perfect. Our tiller is 60" long (same as a Cal >3-30), and the one I sent back was only about 30". I wonder if yours is the >original? Straight or big Z bend? > >Regards, > >Dave Leasia >s/v Candy Cane >'72 Cal 27 p-t >Lake St. Clair, MI > >--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "matthewwenman" <mwenman@...> wrote: >> >> My 2-27 Currently has a tiller that I feel is much too long. When doing a few >>races this summer, as well as on our 11 day cruise, I really started to feel >>like the length was limiting our movement in the helm - hitting knees, and >>making it difficult to work together. >> >> Any suggestions on length, or ways to best maximize crew in the helm area? What >>is your race/tacking routine? >> >> Also... has anyone ever heard of modifying a current tiller model to one with a >>steering wheel helm? I know that later 2-27 models came with a wheel - wondering >>if that was a special order thing or if it is aftermarket. It sure seems to open >>the helm up a LOT. As well as give you better perspective will steering... >> >> >> Matt >> > >

Fred, I had the delaminating issue as well. The PO bolted it together with ss bolts, nuts and plates, and tons of varnish. I didn't see one listed (Ida Merine, H-K, WM), so I sent them a full-sized template of mine. 2 weeks, and it was delivered, total price about $110. Couldn't beat the deal or the quality! I am adding more polyurethane before this season (H-K's came with 4 coats, and I've had it for 3 seasons). Dave 72 Cal 27 p-t #145 Lake St. Clair, MI PS I nearly swapped my old one with my slip mates 3-30. But since I race with him, I didn't think he would have approved... --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Fred Haas <calsailorfred@...> wrote: > > Dave, > The H/K tiller for the 3-30 is their number 139. It was also used > on a couple of other boats. I am ordering new one through Fisheries > Supply as mine is delaminated and rotted out in several spots. For > the past year Nemesis' tiller has been held together by hose clamps. > But they are "marine grade" hose clamps. It's blowing 15-25 kts out > of the southwest. Racing tomorrow on the Sound. Yahoo! > Fred Haas > 3-30 Nemesis > Tacoma > > > >

Charlie, The butt end is 2" wide, 2" high at the fork, 4 " droop at the other end. Also, I misquoted myself, as it WAS H & L in California, not H-K. BTW, thanks for the link. Sorry for the misinformation... Best Regards, Dave PS that is basically the same chart I used (from Ida Sailor), but the dimensions were different- I didn't see the HM101F at the time... --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > Dave, what is the width of the fork? The tillers I use on my 25s are available in stores and on-line as parts for an O'day 27. Just a little creativity. > > http://www.apsltd.com/c-263-laminated-wood-tillers.aspx > > There are other models. Note they come from H&L Marine Woodworking in CA. > > I prefer the F/G design to that C model shown for the 25. Many lengths and widths are available. > > Cheers > Charlie >