Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident

When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . Paul In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: Found on SailingAnarchy.com... http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2oj CNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF Chris B

Could this be real? I am amazed. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 9:55 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . Paul In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: Found on SailingAnarchy.com... http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF Chris B

Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? Allen On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > ** > When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and > you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . > . . > > Paul > > In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > we… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > > Found on SailingAnarchy.com... > > > http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF > > Chris B > > >

I'm wondering if that is the actual track of the boat as the chart shows, or some kind of hoax. The RC (or club) did say that they disappeared from a tracking program about 1:30AM.. Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:10 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? Allen On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com<mailto:pw… [at] aol.com>> wrote: When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . Paul In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:we… [at] yahoo.com> writes: Found on SailingAnarchy.com... http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF Chris B

That link was sent to me by a friend of mine as well and I think he got it off of Sailing Anarchy. Are there no marks of any kind around these islands? Paul In a message dated 5/1/2012 10:16:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, husar_cha rl… [at] bah.com writes: I’m wondering if that is the actual track of the boat as the chart shows, or some kind of hoax. The RC (or club) did say that they disappeared from a tracking program about 1:30AM.. Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:10 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? Allen On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > wrote: When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . Paul In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _w… [at] yahoo.com_ (mailto:we… [at] yahoo.com) writes: Found on SailingAnarchy.com... _http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2o jCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF_ (http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF) Chris B

A link below to a very complete account of the SoCal accident in the Orange County Register, updated today. http://www.ocregister.com/news/race-351631-aegean-mavromatis.html Doug Cal 29--Noregreta San Francisco Bay --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, pwestla@... wrote: > > That link was sent to me by a friend of mine as well and I think he got it > off of Sailing Anarchy. > Are there no marks of any kind around these islands? > > Paul > > > In a message dated 5/1/2012 10:16:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, husar_cha > rlie@... writes: > > > > > > I’m wondering if that is the actual track of the boat as the chart shows, > or some kind of hoax. The RC (or club) did say that they disappeared from > a tracking program about 1:30AM.. > Thanks > Charlie > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Allen Edwards > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:10 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > > > > Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a > freighter? > > > > Allen > > On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <_pwestla@..._ (mailto:pwestla@...) > > wrote: > > > > > > When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and > you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . > . . > > > > Paul > > > > > > In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > _weehopecal20@..._ (mailto:weehopecal20@...) writes: > > > Found on SailingAnarchy.com... > > _http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2o > jCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF_ > (http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF) > > Chris B >

Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) Jerry PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? Allen On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > >When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . >Paul > >In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: > >>Found on SailingAnarchy.com... >> >>http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF >> >>Chris B >> >>

SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? Allen On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or > ship would come that close to an island. > > On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) > Jerry > PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely > been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class > boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and > whistle, including radar. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > > > Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by > a freighter? > > Allen > > On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > ** > > ** > When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and > you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . > . . > > Paul > > In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > we… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Found on SailingAnarchy.com... > > > http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF > > Chris B > > > > > >

Allen, a boat could get splintered on the rocks, but I do find the whole scenario very hard to believe. That is why I asked if there is any verification for the tracking points of the boat. Come to think of it, a ship collision would strike me as leaving bigger pieces unless the boat went through a prop. I think bouncing around on the rocks in a heavy surf would be more destructive. On the other hand a report said that the seas were not angry. I am meandering, but I think that the real story will be very educational for all of us. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:10 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? Allen On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:so… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) Jerry PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com<mailto:al… [at] gmail.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? Allen On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com<mailto:pw… [at] aol.com>> wrote: When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . Paul In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:we… [at] yahoo.com> writes: Found on SailingAnarchy.com... http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF Chris B

Out Patient just returned from Ensenada. The night was clear, stary and a sliver of moon. We had no wind or breeze at midnight and you could see all the shipping and cruise boats coming and going from San Diego. Our plotted course took us 5 miles off the Coronados to skirt the projected hole outside San Diego. I saw the waves breaking on the Coronados that morning. They were huge, deep dark blue with snow white crests and exploding high into the air. The seas may not of been angry, but the swell was maybe 12-14 ft plus with confused seas. I figured we were getting splash back from the islands. I turned on the weather forcast to find out where the seas were coming from. Tanner Banks had 19 gusting to 31 if I remember. We ended up putting the pole forward and heading out a few degrees to get the spinnaker under some kind of control. around 11am, we went thru a debris feild, but we had no clue it may of been someones boat. We were tied up with Aegean at the dock. They were not beginners. We learned of their fate after the finish. Randy Cal 2-29 Out Patient "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Allen, a boat could get splintered on the rocks, but I do find the whole scenario very hard to believe. That is why I asked if there is any verification for the tracking points of the boat. Come to think of it, a ship collision would strike me as leaving bigger pieces unless the boat went through a prop. I think bouncing around on the rocks in a heavy surf would be more destructive. On the other hand a report said that the seas were not angry. I am meandering, but I think that the real story will be very educational for all of us. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:10 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? Allen On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) Jerry PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? Allen On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . Paul In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: Found on SailingAnarchy.com... http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF Chris B TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo! Top job search mistakes new grads make Privacy Policy

If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head trauma is not unusual in such incidents, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? Allen On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. > > > >On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) > >Jerry >PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. > > > >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > >Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? > > >Allen >On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > >>When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . >> >>Paul >> >> >>In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: >> >>>Found on SailingAnarchy.com... >>> >>>http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF >>> >>>Chris B >>> >>>

My sincerest condolences to the families and friends of those lost. During the 60s, 70s & 80s, I sailed that race at least 15 times. Many of those were in a Cal 25 with minimal electronics. In all cases, the crew and skipper were allowed one can of beer each before the start. Then no more booze until we finished. Maintaining a proper course is an essential part of racing. The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I have stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was SAFE to do so. There is a lot of speculation, as usual. Facts will eventually spill and we can all learn by this disaster. No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in Florida in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have repaired most all brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a Hunter. I will elaborate, privately, if requested as this is a public forum. May God bless the survivors, Tom Vandiver From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head trauma is not unusual in such incidents, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? Allen On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. > > > >On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) > >Jerry >PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. > > > > >________________________________ >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > >Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? > > >Allen >On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > >> >> >>When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . >> >>Paul >> >> >>In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: >> >>> >>>Found on SailingAnarchy.com... >>> >>>http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF >>> >>>Chris B >>> >>>

Tom, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but wonder what other things? Cheers, Adam On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > My sincerest condolences to the families and friends of those lost. During > the 60s, 70s & 80s, I sailed that race at least 15 times. Many of those > were in a Cal 25 with minimal electronics. In all cases, the crew and > skipper were allowed one can of beer each before the start. Then no more > booze until we finished. Maintaining a proper course is an essential part > of racing. The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I > have stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was > SAFE to do so. > > There is a lot of speculation, as usual. Facts will eventually spill and > we can all learn by this disaster. > > No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in Florida > in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have repaired most all > brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a Hunter. I will > elaborate, privately, if requested as this is a public forum. > > May God bless the survivors, > Tom Vandiver > > *From:* mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:15 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > ** > > If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible > that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location > will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. > Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head > trauma is not unusual in such incidents, > Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 > inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area > and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? > > Allen > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter > or ship would come that close to an island. > > On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) > Jerry > PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely > been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class > boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and > whistle, including radar. > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > > Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by > a freighter? > > Allen > On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > ** > > ** > When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and > you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . > . . > > Paul > > In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > we… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Found on SailingAnarchy.com... > > > http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF > > Chris B > > **** > > >

That was suppose to be sent privately... Opps! Oh well. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > Tom, > I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our > boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were > built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong > cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are > other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but > wonder what other things? > Cheers, > Adam > > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> My sincerest condolences to the families and friends of those lost. >> During the 60s, 70s & 80s, I sailed that race at least 15 times. Many of >> those were in a Cal 25 with minimal electronics. In all cases, the crew and >> skipper were allowed one can of beer each before the start. Then no more >> booze until we finished. Maintaining a proper course is an essential part >> of racing. The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I >> have stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was >> SAFE to do so. >> >> There is a lot of speculation, as usual. Facts will eventually spill and >> we can all learn by this disaster. >> >> No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in Florida >> in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have repaired most all >> brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a Hunter. I will >> elaborate, privately, if requested as this is a public forum. >> >> May God bless the survivors, >> Tom Vandiver >> >> *From:* mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >> *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:15 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >> ** >> >> If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible >> that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location >> will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. >> Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head >> trauma is not unusual in such incidents, >> Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 >> >> *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >> SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 >> inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area >> and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? >> >> Allen >> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: >> >> ** >> >> Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no >> freighter or ship would come that close to an island. >> >> On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) >> Jerry >> PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely >> been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class >> boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and >> whistle, including radar. >> >> *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >> >> Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit >> by a freighter? >> >> Allen >> On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >> >> ** >> >> ** >> When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and >> you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . >> . . >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> we… [at] yahoo.com writes: >> >> >> Found on SailingAnarchy.com... >> >> >> http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF >> >> Chris B >> >> **** >> >> >> > >

On 5/2/2012 3:03 PM, Tom Vandiver wrote: > The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I have > stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was > SAFE to do so. West coast sailors seem to be having a lot of problems with islands lately. Here in the Great Lakes we pretty much know where ours are. > > No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in > Florida in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have > repaired most all brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a > Hunter. The build quality of Hunters has been a subject of discussion in various places. On the other hand, some in our fresh water lakes seem to have reached at least very late middle age (to quote Garrison Keillor), albeit in an environment where they're hauled for half of each year. Another reason for not sailing them is the outlandish design features that they have adopted lately. Here comes a spaceship from Mars.... Chris Campbell

Here is the latest skivvy, on both fatal accidents. It's the islands fault! http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2012-05-02#.T6GNr1LdaSo It reminds me of the lighthouse that wouldn't get the %$#@ out of the way of a big Navy nuke aircraft carrier. The nerve! BTW is that really a true story? Jerry Sobel, Yea Olde Cal 24 Shpritz #71 From: Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident That was suppose to be sent privately... Opps! Oh well. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Tom, >I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but wonder what other things? >Cheers, >Adam > > >On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> >>My sincerest condolences to the families and friends of those lost. During the 60s, 70s & 80s, I sailed that race at least 15 times. Many of those were in a Cal 25 with minimal electronics. In all cases, the crew and skipper were allowed one can of beer each before the start. Then no more booze until we finished. Maintaining a proper course is an essential part of racing. The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I have stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was SAFE to do so. >> >>There is a lot of speculation, as usual. Facts will eventually spill and we can all learn by this disaster. >> >>No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in Florida in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have repaired most all brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a Hunter. I will elaborate, privately, if requested as this is a public forum. >> >>May God bless the survivors, >>Tom Vandiver >> >> >>From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >>To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:15 AM >> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >> >> >> >> If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head trauma is not unusual in such incidents, >> Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 >> >> >>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >> >>SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? >> >> >>Allen >>On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. >>> >>> >>> >>>On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) >>> >>>Jerry >>>PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. >>> >>> >>> >>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >>> >>>Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? >>> >>> >>>Allen >>>On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>>When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . >>>>Paul >>>> >>>>In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: >>>> >>>>>Found on SailingAnarchy.com... >>>>> >>>>>http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF >>>>> >>>>>Chris B >>>>> >>>>> >

On 5/2/2012 3:25 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > Tom, > > I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how > our boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that > they were built back in the days when builders didn't really > understand how strong cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt > boats. I imagine there are other details that are important.. hull to > deck joint for instance but wonder what other things? I'll chime in. One issue is the nature of the reinforcing material used. Remember, what we call "fiberglass" is really "fiberglass reinforced plastic" (or maybe Fiberglas [copyright symbol]). There's a Hunter in the boat barn where my other boat awaits launch and it apparently ran into something at the bow just below the waterline. There's a big chunk missing, almost fist-sized. What you see is a bunch of chopped-strand material. It doesn't appear to have penetrated or allowed leakage, but it's just a bunch of plastic and glass. My Cal 20 has woven roving in that location--a stronger but more expensive (to buy and to lay up) material. I'm pretty sure there would be less thickness on the Cal 20 because less is needed when you use a better material. And Cal 20s were Chevrolet boats. Maybe Hunters are Yugos? There's also the issue of whether the boat is designed for safety and convenience under sail or for comfort at dockside. Vast spaces below are great for dockside living but harder to navigate in seas at an angle of heel. Our old Cals aren't perfect but they were honest boats, designed to be sailed. Chris Campbell

Shipmates, I don't think any kind of boat is going to do too well when a roller flings it like a car on a roller coaster into boulders or a rock face. Whether roving or mat it's going to be shattered. Even a steel boat would have been rolled and capsized, spilling its crew into the rocks or drowning them. What I'm wondering is, did the crew turn on the engine to charge the batteries and succumb to carbon monoxide poisoning? Did the man on watch fall asleep? Cruiser class boats are allowed to use auto pilots, and the boat was maintaining the same exact course for a very, very long time. Did they know that that course would take them smack into the island? I understand they chartered the boat they were sailing in, so maybe they weren't familiar with all the systems, but, considering they'd won their division on two previous races, you'd think the skipper would have caught this. Does familiarity breed contempt? Maybe it's time to review the basics. My USCGA teacher said that the Andrea Doria vs. Stockholm collision wouldn't have happened it someone on deck had been plotting their course on a chart. Instead, all aboard were glued to the scope and while continually changing headings trying to avoid the collision, caused it. It's probably worth examining if a boat like the one in question tends to suck exhaust fumes into its cockpit and cabin under the conditions it was in. Maintaining watch at night can be a total bitch, I've been barely able to stay awake in the wee hours of the morning after a hard day of sailing. The worst is while motoring up the coast with no wind. Which reminds me, distance cruising class sometimes has a mandatory motoring allowance, so is it possible the boat was under power? If so, the boat may have been going full speed when it hit the rocks. Jerry, Yea Olde Cal 24 Shpritz. From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident On 5/2/2012 3:25 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: >Tom, >I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but wonder what other things? I'll chime in. One issue is the nature of the reinforcing material used. Remember, what we call "fiberglass" is really "fiberglass reinforced plastic" (or maybe Fiberglas [copyright symbol]). There's a Hunter in the boat barn where my other boat awaits launch and it apparently ran into something at the bow just below the waterline. There's a big chunk missing, almost fist-sized. What you see is a bunch of chopped-strand material. It doesn't appear to have penetrated or allowed leakage, but it's just a bunch of plastic and glass. My Cal 20 has woven roving in that location--a stronger but more expensive (to buy and to lay up) material. I'm pretty sure there would be less thickness on the Cal 20 because less is needed when you use a better material. And Cal 20s were Chevrolet boats. Maybe Hunters are Yugos? There's also the issue of whether the boat is designed for safety and convenience under sail or for comfort at dockside. Vast spaces below are great for dockside living but harder to navigate in seas at an angle of heel. Our old Cals aren't perfect but they were honest boats, designed to be sailed. Chris Campbell

I checked out the island where the Spot track ended on Google Maps. The satellite shot shows a very narrow piece of land running north to south. It has some nasty rocks on the north end. It would be very hard to see at night if the island does not have nav lights. You would expect them to be checking their course on a GPS and see the island was in their path. If they didn't check their GPS regularly and hit the island, it would be very bad luck because the islands profile is so small and their so much water around it. Doug Cal 29--No Regretta San Francisco Bay On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Shipmates, I don't think any kind of boat is going to do too well when a > roller flings it like a car on a roller coaster into boulders or a rock > face. Whether roving or mat it's going to be shattered. Even a steel boat > would have been rolled and capsized, spilling its crew into the rocks or > drowning them. > What I'm wondering is, did the crew turn on the engine to charge the > batteries and succumb to carbon monoxide poisoning? Did the man on watch > fall asleep? Cruiser class boats are allowed to use auto pilots, and the > boat was maintaining the same exact course for a very, very long time. Did > they know that that course would take them smack into the island? > I understand they chartered the boat they were sailing in, so maybe they > weren't familiar with all the systems, but, considering they'd won their > division on two previous races, you'd think the skipper would have caught > this. Does familiarity breed contempt? Maybe it's time to review the > basics. My USCGA teacher said that the Andrea Doria vs. Stockholm collision > wouldn't have happened it someone on deck had been plotting their course on > a chart. Instead, all aboard were glued to the scope and while continually > changing headings trying to avoid the collision, caused it. > It's probably worth examining if a boat like the one in question tends to > suck exhaust fumes into its cockpit and cabin under the conditions it was > in. Maintaining watch at night can be a total bitch, I've been barely able > to stay awake in the wee hours of the morning after a hard day of sailing. > The worst is while motoring up the coast with no wind. Which reminds me, > distance cruising class sometimes has a mandatory motoring allowance, so is > it possible the boat was under power? If so, the boat may have been going > full speed when it hit the rocks. > Jerry, Yea Olde Cal 24 Shpritz. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:36 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > > > On 5/2/2012 3:25 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > > Tom, > I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our > boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were > built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong > cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are > other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but > wonder what other things? > > > I'll chime in. One issue is the nature of the reinforcing material used. > Remember, what we call "fiberglass" is really "fiberglass reinforced > plastic" (or maybe Fiberglas [copyright symbol]). There's a Hunter in the > boat barn where my other boat awaits launch and it apparently ran into > something at the bow just below the waterline. There's a big chunk > missing, almost fist-sized. What you see is a bunch of chopped-strand > material. It doesn't appear to have penetrated or allowed leakage, but > it's just a bunch of plastic and glass. My Cal 20 has woven roving in that > location--a stronger but more expensive (to buy and to lay up) material. > I'm pretty sure there would be less thickness on the Cal 20 because less is > needed when you use a better material. And Cal 20s were Chevrolet boats. > Maybe Hunters are Yugos? There's also the issue of whether the boat is > designed for safety and convenience under sail or for comfort at dockside. > Vast spaces below are great for dockside living but harder to navigate in > seas at an angle of heel. > > Our old Cals aren't perfect but they were honest boats, designed to be > sailed. > > Chris Campbell > > > > >

Here is a link to the satellite shot of the island. If they were on autopilot and the guy on watch dozed.... Zoom in on the north end to see what they probably hit. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ensenada,+Mexico&hl=en&ll=32.441082,-117.294888&spn=0.019015,0.039911&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.505383,81.738281&oq=%3Bensenada&hnear=Ensenada+Municipality,+Baja+California,+Mexico&t=h&z=15 Doug Cal 29--No Regreta San Francisco Bay On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Here is the latest skivvy, on both fatal accidents. > It's the islands fault! > > http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2012-05-02#.T6GNr1LdaSo > It reminds me of the lighthouse that wouldn't get the %$#@ out of the way > of a big Navy nuke aircraft carrier. The nerve! BTW is that really a true > story? > Jerry Sobel, Yea Olde Cal 24 Shpritz #71 > ------------------------------ > *From:* Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2012 12:25 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > > > That was suppose to be sent privately... Opps! Oh well. > > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > Tom, > I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our > boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were > built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong > cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are > other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but > wonder what other things? > Cheers, > Adam > > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > ** > > My sincerest condolences to the families and friends of those lost. > During the 60s, 70s & 80s, I sailed that race at least 15 times. Many of > those were in a Cal 25 with minimal electronics. In all cases, the crew and > skipper were allowed one can of beer each before the start. Then no more > booze until we finished. Maintaining a proper course is an essential part > of racing. The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I > have stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was > SAFE to do so. > > There is a lot of speculation, as usual. Facts will eventually spill and > we can all learn by this disaster. > > No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in Florida > in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have repaired most all > brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a Hunter. I will > elaborate, privately, if requested as this is a public forum. > > May God bless the survivors, > Tom Vandiver > > *From:* mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:15 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > ** > > If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible > that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location > will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. > Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head > trauma is not unusual in such incidents, > Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 > inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area > and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? > > Allen > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > ** > > Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter > or ship would come that close to an island. > > On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) > Jerry > PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely > been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class > boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and > whistle, including radar. > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > > Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by > a freighter? > > Allen > On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > ** > > ** > When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and > you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . > . . > > Paul > > In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > we… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > Found on SailingAnarchy.com... > > > http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF > > Chris B > > **** > > > > > > >

If this is what happened it should be easy to prove as the ballast should be in the shallows on the North side of this island. Pretty small area to search. This is assuming they had some type of typical ballast as well, lead etc... Pellet ballast would be harder to find, but still should not be that difficult. If the ballast is not found around there, the chances of this being the situation reduce greatly. Dyer From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Johnson Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 7:47 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident, Mysteries solved? Here is a link to the satellite shot of the island. If they were on autopilot and the guy on watch dozed.... Zoom in on the north end to see what they probably hit. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ensenada,+Mexico&hl=en&ll=32.441082,-117.294888&spn=0.019015,0.039911&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.505383,81.738281&oq=%3Bensenada&hnear=Ensenada+Municipality,+Baja+California,+Mexico&t=h&z=15 Doug Cal 29--No Regreta San Francisco Bay On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Here is the latest skivvy, on both fatal accidents. It's the islands fault! http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2012-05-02#.T6GNr1LdaSo It reminds me of the lighthouse that wouldn't get the %$#@ out of the way of a big Navy nuke aircraft carrier. The nerve! BTW is that really a true story? Jerry Sobel, Yea Olde Cal 24 Shpritz #71 From:Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident That was suppose to be sent privately... Opps! Oh well. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Tom, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but wonder what other things? Cheers, Adam On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: My sincerest condolences to the families and friends of those lost. During the 60s, 70s & 80s, I sailed that race at least 15 times. Many of those were in a Cal 25 with minimal electronics. In all cases, the crew and skipper were allowed one can of beer each before the start. Then no more booze until we finished. Maintaining a proper course is an essential part of racing. The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I have stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was SAFE to do so. There is a lot of speculation, as usual. Facts will eventually spill and we can all learn by this disaster. No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in Florida in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have repaired most all brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a Hunter. I will elaborate, privately, if requested as this is a public forum. May God bless the survivors, Tom Vandiver From:mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head trauma is not unusual in such incidents, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 From:Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? Allen On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) Jerry PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. From:Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM Subject:Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? Allen On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . > >Paul > >In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: > >>Found on SailingAnarchy.com... >> >>http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF >> >>Chris B

When first saw this spot track i thought it might be a hoax. Now looking at it I believe it's real. In that race, in their class you can run your engine for certain number of hours at night.. Since there is a big penalty for running the engine, they would be using max power. The track shows at 10 PM the boat speeds up and maintains a perfect course to the island. Course is too good to be hand steering. If you look at the track prior to 10 PM they were hand steering and slow. Looks sad but true to me that they motored into the end of island at full speed on auto pilot. As stated before it's a very jagged area with a following sea . Couldn't of been a worlt place to land. my .02 cents Chuck From: Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident, Mysteries solved? Here is a link to the satellite shot of the island. If they were on autopilot and the guy on watch dozed.... Zoom in on the north end to see what they probably hit. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ensenada,+Mexico&hl=en&ll=32.441082,-117.294888&spn=0.019015,0.039911&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.505383,81.738281&oq=%3Bensenada&hnear=Ensenada+Municipality,+Baja+California,+Mexico&t=h&z=15 Doug Cal 29--No Regreta San Francisco Bay On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >Here is the latest skivvy, on both fatal accidents. > >It's the islands fault! > >http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2012-05-02#.T6GNr1LdaSo >It reminds me of the lighthouse that wouldn't get the %$#@ out of the way of a big Navy nuke aircraft carrier. The nerve! BTW is that really a true story? > >Jerry Sobel, Yea Olde Cal 24 Shpritz #71 > > >________________________________ > From: Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 12:25 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident > > >That was suppose to be sent privately... Opps! Oh well. > >On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >Tom, >>I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but wonder what other things? >>Cheers, >>Adam >>On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>My sincerest condolences to the families and friends of those lost. During the 60s, 70s & 80s, I sailed that race at least 15 times. Many of those were in a Cal 25 with minimal electronics. In all cases, the crew and skipper were allowed one can of beer each before the start. Then no more booze until we finished. Maintaining a proper course is an essential part of racing. The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I have stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was SAFE to do so. >>> >>>There is a lot of speculation, as usual. Facts will eventually spill and we can all learn by this disaster. >>> >>>No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in Florida in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have repaired most all brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a Hunter. I will elaborate, privately, if requested as this is a public forum. >>> >>>May God bless the survivors, >>>Tom Vandiver >>> >>> >>> From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> >>>To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:15 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >>> >>> >>> If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head trauma is not unusual in such incidents, >>> Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 >>> >>> >>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >>> >>>SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? >>> >>> >>>Allen >>>On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) >>>> >>>>Jerry >>>>PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >>>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident >>>> >>>>Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? >>>> >>>> >>>>Allen >>>>On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . >>>>> >>>>>Paul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com writes: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Found on SailingAnarchy.com... >>>>>> >>>>>>http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF >>>>>> >>>>>>Chris B >>>>>> >>>>>>

I note a power boat going north in the photo. Are there landing spots on the island? Don’t know the elevations on the north side, but it looks very hard to go look for evidence. In response to several others: I also don’t think the type of boat would have mattered, but maybe with an old CAL, the pieces of the boat would have been bigger. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Lennox Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:18 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident, Mysteries solved? When first saw this spot track i thought it might be a hoax. Now looking at it I believe it's real. In that race, in their class you can run your engine for certain number of hours at night.. Since there is a big penalty for running the engine, they would be using max power. The track shows at 10 PM the boat speeds up and maintains a perfect course to the island. Course is too good to be hand steering. If you look at the track prior to 10 PM they were hand steering and slow. Looks sad but true to me that they motored into the end of island at full speed on auto pilot. As stated before it's a very jagged area with a following sea . Couldn't of been a worlt place to land. my .02 cents Chuck From: Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com<mailto:db… [at] gmail.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident, Mysteries solved? Here is a link to the satellite shot of the island. If they were on autopilot and the guy on watch dozed.... Zoom in on the north end to see what they probably hit. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ensenada,+Mexico&hl=en&ll=32.441082,-117.294888&spn=0.019015,0.039911&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.505383,81.738281&oq=%3Bensenada&hnear=Ensenada+Municipality,+Baja+California,+Mexico&t=h&z=15 Doug Cal 29--No Regreta San Francisco Bay On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:so… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: Here is the latest skivvy, on both fatal accidents. It's the islands fault! http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2012-05-02#.T6GNr1LdaSo It reminds me of the lighthouse that wouldn't get the %$#@ out of the way of a big Navy nuke aircraft carrier. The nerve! BTW is that really a true story? Jerry Sobel, Yea Olde Cal 24 Shpritz #71 From: Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com<mailto:th… [at] gmail.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident That was suppose to be sent privately... Opps! Oh well. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com<mailto:th… [at] gmail.com>> wrote: Tom, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but wonder what other things? Cheers, Adam On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:bs… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: My sincerest condolences to the families and friends of those lost. During the 60s, 70s & 80s, I sailed that race at least 15 times. Many of those were in a Cal 25 with minimal electronics. In all cases, the crew and skipper were allowed one can of beer each before the start. Then no more booze until we finished. Maintaining a proper course is an essential part of racing. The Coronados have always been there and forbidding, although I have stopped on the way back and anchored overnight in the lee -when it was SAFE to do so. There is a lot of speculation, as usual. Facts will eventually spill and we can all learn by this disaster. No one has mentioned that it was a Hunter boat. Since settling in Florida in 1995 and restarting my boat repair business, I have repaired most all brands. I would not sail across Pensacola Bay on a Hunter. I will elaborate, privately, if requested as this is a public forum. May God bless the survivors, Tom Vandiver From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:ve… [at] yahoo.com>> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident If SA report of the transponder signals is correct it is possible that the Agean went ashore on the N Corranado. A search of the location will then offer up large pieces of the yacht such as the engine and keel. Piling onto an island at 6k will do lots of damage to boats and crew. Head trauma is not unusual in such incidents, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com<mailto:al… [at] gmail.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:10 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident SA says they hit the island. But the pieces of the boat were like 6 inch size and an island can't do that. Others reported a ship in the area and talked to them on the radio. What's up with SA? Allen On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:so… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: Allen, either this is bogus, or it's bogus. For one thing, no freighter or ship would come that close to an island. On second thought, I take that back! (Gulp!!) Jerry PS: Serioulsly (ahem) If she hit the island, going slowly, there'd likely been a mayday call and possibly some survivors. This was a cruiser class boat with a safety conscious skipper, and every sort of safety bell and whistle, including radar. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com<mailto:al… [at] gmail.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident Is someone saying they ran into the island and that they were not hit by a freighter? Allen On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com<mailto:pw… [at] aol.com>> wrote: When you go to the link, zoom in and then turn on the satellite image and you will understand the reason for the condition of the boat and its crew . . . Paul In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, we… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:we… [at] yahoo.com> writes: Found on SailingAnarchy.com... http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF Chris B

As I said before, maybe there is a good chance that the watch succumbed to carbon monoxide fumes if there was a 6 knot tailwind, or, a combination of some that and alcohol and a long day of racing? It can be hard enough to stay awake late at night if you are driving the boat by hand, but if an autopilot is doing it, doubly hard. And again, they should have been ploting their course to avoid hitting the island to begin with. I guess that's the lesson. Plot your course, especially late at night. Once upon a time, a dozen years ago, I did the Santa Barbara Race (big gale force winds came up, and under main and pole out working jib, we went like hell..pefect Cal surfing conditons, but scary), my first ever night race, and I still hadn't taught myself to input waypoints in my GPS, but I could turn it on read the lat. and long., and I had the big coastal charts book. So it was easy to go below and set a heading for the mouth of King Harbor. And we won the race. Nice big "silver" aluminum platter! Jerry From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident Shipmates, I don't think any kind of boat is going to do too well when a roller flings it like a car on a roller coaster into boulders or a rock face. Whether roving or mat it's going to be shattered. Even a steel boat would have been rolled and capsized, spilling its crew into the rocks or drowning them. What I'm wondering is, did the crew turn on the engine to charge the batteries and succumb to carbon monoxide poisoning? Did the man on watch fall asleep? Cruiser class boats are allowed to use auto pilots, and the boat was maintaining the same exact course for a very, very long time. Did they know that that course would take them smack into the island? I understand they chartered the boat they were sailing in, so maybe they weren't familiar with all the systems, but, considering they'd won their division on two previous races, you'd think the skipper would have caught this. Does familiarity breed contempt? Maybe it's time to review the basics. My USCGA teacher said that the Andrea Doria vs. Stockholm collision wouldn't have happened it someone on deck had been plotting their course on a chart. Instead, all aboard were glued to the scope and while continually changing headings trying to avoid the collision, caused it. It's probably worth examining if a boat like the one in question tends to suck exhaust fumes into its cockpit and cabin under the conditions it was in. Maintaining watch at night can be a total bitch, I've been barely able to stay awake in the wee hours of the morning after a hard day of sailing. The worst is while motoring up the coast with no wind. Which reminds me, distance cruising class sometimes has a mandatory motoring allowance, so is it possible the boat was under power? If so, the boat may have been going full speed when it hit the rocks. Jerry, Yea Olde Cal 24 Shpritz. From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on latest CA boating accident On 5/2/2012 3:25 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: >Tom, >I'd be interested in your thoughts on Hunters. Or a contrast on how our boats are built better. I have a cal 28 and have been told that they were built back in the days when builders didn't really understand how strong cloth and resin were, and so they overbuilt boats. I imagine there are other details that are important.. hull to deck joint for instance but wonder what other things? I'll chime in. One issue is the nature of the reinforcing material used. Remember, what we call "fiberglass" is really "fiberglass reinforced plastic" (or maybe Fiberglas [copyright symbol]). There's a Hunter in the boat barn where my other boat awaits launch and it apparently ran into something at the bow just below the waterline. There's a big chunk missing, almost fist-sized. What you see is a bunch of chopped-strand material. It doesn't appear to have penetrated or allowed leakage, but it's just a bunch of plastic and glass. My Cal 20 has woven roving in that location--a stronger but more expensive (to buy and to lay up) material. I'm pretty sure there would be less thickness on the Cal 20 because less is needed when you use a better material. And Cal 20s were Chevrolet boats. Maybe Hunters are Yugos? There's also the issue of whether the boat is designed for safety and convenience under sail or for comfort at dockside. Vast spaces below are great for dockside living but harder to navigate in seas at an angle of heel. Our old Cals aren't perfect but they were honest boats, designed to be sailed. Chris Campbell