Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12

Joe and fellow members, and sailors. I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. Hope this helps. Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. Jerry Sobel From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> Meeting Notes 5/24/2012 Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor.

Jerry, all good suggestions. While were at it, lets add some cunningham or halyard tension to the main as well as some outhaul. This will spill some additional air. Now if were in a choppy sea, with a flat or depowered main, one may consider easing the jib sheet. With a 155%, about two inches off the spreader should provide enough fullness not only keep the speed up, help drive the boat through the chop and keep her remaining on her feet. Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Sobel To: md… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:09 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 Joe and fellow members, and sailors. I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. Hope this helps. Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. Jerry Sobel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> Meeting Notes 5/24/2012 Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7185 (20120531) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7185 (20120531) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Hmm, Mark, hadn't thought of this. I noticed last Sunday coming back up from Redondo Beach in the Corinthian cup that if I barberhauled the jib it ballooned the forward part of the main, which would de power the sails. But I didn't like how that looked, so I took off the barberhauler and opened up the jib enuff to spill some air, and let out the main a bit...and pointed the boat higher too. I have a sliding gooseneck on my boat and no crank winch on the halyards, but I do have a 2:1 block on it. To get the luff tight I pull on the 3/16" downhaul for all I'm worth, and put my 215 lbs of bodyweight on the boom, then banjo the halyard using a non-handled winch and a cleat set three feet below it. Jerry ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12  Jerry, all good suggestions. While were at it, lets add some cunningham or halyard tension to the main as well as some outhaul. This will spill some additional air. Now if were in a choppy sea, with a flat or depowered main, one may consider easing the jib sheet. With a 155%, about two inches off the spreader should provide enough fullness not only keep the speed up, help drive the boat through the chop and keep her remaining on her feet. Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro >From: Gerald Sobel >To: md… [at] yahoogroups.com >Cc: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:09 PM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. > >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. > > > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. >Hope this helps. >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. > >Jerry Sobel > > > >________________________________ > From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> > > > > >Meeting Notes >5/24/2012 > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7185 (20120531) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7185 (20120531) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Jerry, A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. David Dobbs CAL29 411 From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 Joe and fellow members, and sailors. I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. Hope this helps. Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. Jerry Sobel From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> Meeting Notes 5/24/2012 Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor.

I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > Jerry, > A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > > Joe and fellow members, and sailors. > I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. > > Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. > Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. > Hope this helps. > Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. > Jerry Sobel > > From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> > > > > Meeting Notes > 5/24/2012 > > Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. > > > > > >

I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... Allen On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net>wrote: > ** > > > I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub > rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the > keel in the water. > > I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the > traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only > one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. > > If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the > water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, > fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > > > Jerry, > A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, > "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look > awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be > mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, > wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the > right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing > this for too many years, am still learning. > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Cc:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] > Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > > Joe and fellow members, and sailors. > I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its > feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they > can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, > and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with > less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That > means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the > mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to > tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If > you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and > let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and > by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat > go faster. > > Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance > of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you > don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. > Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's > reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can > do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to > properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to > put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want > to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. > Hope this helps. > Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing > stress and strain on its old skin and bones. > Jerry Sobel > > ------------------------------ > *From:* sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> > ** > > > Meeting Notes > 5/24/2012 > > Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that > the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the > floor. > > > > > > > >

Two things I do (on cal 29 and force 5 dinghy alike): one, get your crew to find a place to lie flat and not interfere with the wind passing through the sails as evenly as possible for balance throughout the boat, then two, don't move, as any need to move your rudder to counteract their movement will slow you down, you have enough to deal with when currents or waves head you off course. blocking wind downwind not so bad, but the balance and no movement is still critical. Used to do this on a santana 35, I did this on a cal 39 last fall to come from way behind due to a halyard pin flying overboard to win the Black Lace Panty Race our club sponsors every year.(all ladies on deck, one galley boy to serve the crew snacks). Even the owner of the boat (the galley boy who let me skipper)kept advising me differently(till we passed the competition). I expect it to work on our 36 as well. Helen From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 3, 2012 7:31:50 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... Allen On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I >am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the >water. > > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, >tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on >the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. > > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets >a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail >a Cal 33-2!! > > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > >> >> >>Jerry, >>A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on >>their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but >>those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, >>and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, >>etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration >>for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am >>still learning. >>David Dobbs CAL29 411 >> >> >> From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >>To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting >>notes 5/24/12 >> >> >> >>Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >> >>I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its >>feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can >>handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and >>certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less >>heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting >>the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to >>flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, >>and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler >>adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will >>dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind >>resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. >> >> >> >>Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of >>cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't >>do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. >>Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" >>which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a >>pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the >>sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off >>shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the >>main before you leave the dock..works for me. >>Hope this helps. >>Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress >>and strain on its old skin and bones. >> >>Jerry Sobel >> >> >> From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> >> >> >> >> >>Meeting Notes >>5/24/2012 >> >>Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >> >> The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the >>water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

Helen, You talking about light winds now? Allen On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > ** > > > Two things I do (on cal 29 and force 5 dinghy alike): one, get your crew > to find a place to lie flat and not interfere with the wind passing through > the sails as evenly as possible for balance throughout the boat, then two, > don't move, as any need to move your rudder to counteract their movement > will slow you down, you have enough to deal with when currents or waves > head you off course. blocking wind downwind not so bad, but the balance and > no movement is still critical. Used to do this on a santana 35, I did this > on a cal 39 last fall to come from way behind due to a halyard pin flying > overboard to win the Black Lace Panty Race our club sponsors every > year.(all ladies on deck, one galley boy to serve the crew snacks). Even > the owner of the boat (the galley boy who let me skipper)kept advising me > differently(till we passed the competition). I expect it to work on our 36 > as well. Helen > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sun, June 3, 2012 7:31:50 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > > > > I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception > when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor > the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind > at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another > L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. > Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > > I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower > the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. > Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, > which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our > courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, > I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > > So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat > the same way. Very cool. > > Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > > Allen > > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub >> rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the >> keel in the water. >> >> I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the >> traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only >> one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. >> >> If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the >> water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, >> fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! >> >> Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >> >> >> On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: >> >> >> >> Jerry, >> A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to >> sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over >> look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes >> to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail >> up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with >> the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been >> doing this for too many years, am still learning. >> David Dobbs CAL29 411 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >> *To:* "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Cc:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >> *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: >> [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 >> >> >> Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >> I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on >> its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind >> they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the >> water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled >> out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. >> That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling >> the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is >> to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If >> you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and >> let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and >> by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat >> go faster. >> >> Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the >> importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its >> side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a >> swim. >> Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's >> reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can >> do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to >> properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to >> put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want >> to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. >> Hope this helps. >> Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing >> stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >> Jerry Sobel >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> >> ** >> >> >> Meeting Notes >> 5/24/2012 >> >> Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >> >> The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that >> the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the >> floor. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >

Helen, I know exactly what you mean. If you look at photos of old turn of the century America's boats all the crew is lying prone on the deck on the windward edge. Very streamline, and very nattily attired, I might add. I wish I could get my crew to do that, by my side decks are kinda narrow, so Eric sits supine on a cushion with his back against a stanchion, leaning against the side of the dog house. I sit behind him with my tail balance on the spray rail holding onto the fully extended tiller extension, leaning back and trying not to fall overboard. Woooieee! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) Helen, You talking about light winds now? Allen On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >Two things I do (on cal 29 and force 5 dinghy alike): one, get your crew to find a place to lie flat and not interfere with the wind passing through the sails as evenly as possible for balance throughout the boat, then two, don't move, as any need to move your rudder to counteract their movement will slow you down, you have enough to deal with when currents or waves head you off course. blocking wind downwind not so bad, but the balance and no movement is still critical. Used to do this on a santana 35, I did this on a cal 39 last fall to come from way behind due to a halyard pin flying overboard to win the Black Lace Panty Race our club sponsors every year.(all ladies on deck, one galley boy to serve the crew snacks). Even the owner of the boat (the galley boy who let me skipper)kept advising me differently(till we passed the competition). I expect it to work on our 36 as well. Helen > >________________________________ >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sun, June 3, 2012 7:31:50 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > > > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. > > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > > >Allen > > > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > > >> >>I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. >> >> >>I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. >> >> >>If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! >> >> >>Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >> >> >> >> >>On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>>Jerry, >>>A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. >>>David Dobbs CAL29 411 >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >>>To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 >>> >>> >>> >>>Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >>> >>>I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. >>> >>> >>> >>>Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. >>>Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. >>>Hope this helps. >>>Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >>> >>>Jerry Sobel >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Meeting Notes >>>5/24/2012 >>> >>>Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >>> >>> The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >

Allen - We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on the water handily. Paul From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... Allen On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: Jerry, A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. David Dobbs CAL29 411 From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 Joe and fellow members, and sailors. I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. Hope this helps. Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. Jerry Sobel From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> Meeting Notes 5/24/2012 Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor.

Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow through the slot with matched shapes. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds Allen - We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on the water handily. Paul From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... Allen On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net<mailto:dn… [at] comcast.net>> wrote: I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: Jerry, A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. David Dobbs CAL29 411 From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:so… [at] yahoo.com>> To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:md… [at] yahoogroups.com>" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:md… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 Joe and fellow members, and sailors. I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. Hope this helps. Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. Jerry Sobel From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com<mailto:sj… [at] roadrunner.com>> Meeting Notes 5/24/2012 Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor.

My new 90% jib was designed for an inhauler. I call a Barberhauler an adjustment that pulls a sail out toward the rail and an inhauler one that pulls in. Anyway, I use it infrequently mainly to keep the sheeting angle small while letting the sheet out to get more fullness to punch through chop. I have an inboard track for that sail so the sheeting angle is good without the inhauler. More frequently, I use a jib sheet twing to pull the sheet forward and down when we are sailing off the wind. You can do the same thing by moving the car forward but that is much more difficult. The twing is a locking carabiner from REI. The locking part is critical as the normal kind have a way of finding something inconvenient to lock to, like a life line. Allen On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 8:39 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > Allen - > > We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down > and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the > boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead > any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? > > Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed > wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've > gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want > to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a > twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the > #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in > next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. > > We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and > then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat > including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed > with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been > out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started > sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a > J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and > got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple > tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the > yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and > carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run > to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on > the water handily. > > Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > > > I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception > when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor > the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind > at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another > L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. > Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > > I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We > lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 > degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the > main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. > (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is > strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > > So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their > boat the same way. Very cool. > > Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > > Allen > > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net>wrote: > >> ** >> >> I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub >> rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the >> keel in the water. >> >> I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the >> traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only >> one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. >> >> If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the >> water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, >> fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! >> >> Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >> >> >> On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: >> >> >> >> Jerry, >> A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to >> sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over >> look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes >> to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail >> up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with >> the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been >> doing this for too many years, am still learning. >> David Dobbs CAL29 411 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >> *To:* "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Cc:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >> *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: >> [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 >> >> >> Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >> I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on >> its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind >> they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the >> water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled >> out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. >> That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling >> the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is >> to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If >> you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and >> let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and >> by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat >> go faster. >> >> Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the >> importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its >> side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a >> swim. >> Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's >> reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can >> do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to >> properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to >> put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want >> to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. >> Hope this helps. >> Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for >> reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >> Jerry Sobel >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> >> ** >> >> >> Meeting Notes >> 5/24/2012 >> >> Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >> >> The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that >> the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the >> floor. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >

I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. > > > > I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow through the slot with matched shapes. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > > > > > > > Allen - > > > > We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? > > > > Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. > > > > We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on the water handily. > > > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > > > > I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > > > > I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > > > > So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. > > > > Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > > > > Allen > > > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > > > > I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. > > > > I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. > > > > If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! > > > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > > > On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. > > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > > > > > Joe and fellow members, and sailors. > > I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. > > > > Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. > > Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. > > Hope this helps. > > Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. > > Jerry Sobel > > > > From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> > > > > > > Meeting Notes > 5/24/2012 > > Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I have Garhauer jib cars and had them send me some pivot bolts with an eye welded to them. I can tie a line to the eye and take it forward to a cheek block bolted to the rail just forward of the track. This line then goes back to a winch and I can winch the blocks forward. I have not used them this season but I intend to. I do not use it for the 90, just for the 155. The 90 is on another track. Allen On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net>wrote: > ** > > > I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main > traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 > feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the > next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to > release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. > > We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in > Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken > blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I > have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still > too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the > cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > > Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper > part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment.**** > > ** ** > > I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical “slot” > between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow through > the slot with matched shapes.**** > > ** ** > > Cheers**** > > Charlie**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *pw… [at] aol.com > *Sent:* Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds*** > * > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > Allen - **** > > **** > > We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down > and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the > boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead > any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? > **** > > **** > > Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed > wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've > gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want > to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a > twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the > #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in > next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go.**** > > **** > > We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and > then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat > including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed > with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been > out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started > sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a > J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and > got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple > tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the > yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and > carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run > to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on > the water handily.**** > > **** > > Paul**** > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry)**** > > **** > > I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception > when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor > the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind > at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another > L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. > Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. **** > > ** ** > > I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower > the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. > Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, > which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our > courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, > I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique.**** > > ** ** > > So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat > the same way. Very cool.**** > > ** ** > > Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds...**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> > wrote:**** > > **** > > I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub > rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the > keel in the water.**** > > ** ** > > I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the > traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only > one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be.**** > > ** ** > > If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the > water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, > fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!!**** > > ** ** > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote:**** > > > > **** > > **** > > ** ** > > Jerry,**** > > A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, > "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look > awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be > mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, > wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the > right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing > this for too many years, am still learning.**** > > David Dobbs CAL29 411**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Cc:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] > Meeting notes 5/24/12**** > > ** ** > > **** > > Joe and fellow members, and sailors.**** > > I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its > feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they > can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, > and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with > less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That > means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the > mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to > tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If > you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and > let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and > by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat > go faster.**** > > ** ** > > Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance > of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you > don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim.**** > > Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's > reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can > do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to > properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to > put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want > to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me.**** > > Hope this helps.**** > > Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing > stress and strain on its old skin and bones.**** > > Jerry Sobel**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com>**** > > ** ** > > **** > > Meeting Notes > 5/24/2012 > > Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that > the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the > floor.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > **** > > > >

Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34. The owner wanted to move the jib car aft. He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled and told me to move the car. The car took off like a rocket aft, the change in angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still hanging onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which ended with his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side. That didn't work so well! John From: Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow through the slot with matched shapes. > >Cheers >Charlie > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > > > > >Allen - > >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? > >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. > >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on the water handily. > >Paul >-----Original Message----- >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > >Allen > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > > > > >Jerry, >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. >David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > >________________________________ > >From:Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. >Hope this helps. >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >Jerry Sobel > > >________________________________ > >From:sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> > > >Meeting Notes >5/24/2012 > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. > > > > > > > > > > >

My technique is to adjust the car on the lazy sheet, then tack and adjust the new lazy sheet. If you can't tack and still must adjust, barber haul the loaded sheet. George --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: > > Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34.  The owner wanted to move the jib car aft.  He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled and told me to move the car.  The car took off like a rocket aft, the change in angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still hanging onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which ended with his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side.  That didn't work so well! > > John > > > ________________________________ > From: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cc: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> > Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > >  > I agree with this technique.  If I am still overpowered with the main traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 feet and tack.  Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the next tack has the same setting.  I find it too dangerous to send someone to release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. > > We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load.  It involved Harken blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit.  Since I have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the cockpit.  I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > >  > > > > > >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. > > > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow through the slot with matched shapes. > > > >Cheers > >Charlie > > > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pwestla@... > >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM > >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > > > > > > > > > > >Allen - > > > >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? > > > >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. > > > >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and then a race back)  in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on the water handily. > > > >Paul > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> > >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > > > >I have found this discussion very interesting.  Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top.  This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was.  Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > > > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+.  We almost never reef.  We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees.  Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much.  (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race).  When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > > > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way.  Very cool. > > > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > > > >Allen > > > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> wrote: > > > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail.  I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. > > > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul.  I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. > > > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full.  If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef.  This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! > > > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >Jerry, > >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. > >David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > > > >________________________________ > > > >From:Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@...> > >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> > >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM > >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > > > > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. > >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. > > > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. > >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. > >Hope this helps. > >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. > >Jerry Sobel > > > > > >________________________________ > > > >From:sjoec <sjoec@...> > > > > > >Meeting Notes > >5/24/2012 > > > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

If you are on a long tack and you do not wish to tack soon, you can use a changing sheet led to another block on the same track. You lose a little shape in the jib for the time it takes to move the car, but it goes quickly. Terry On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, geobarlow wrote: > > > My technique is to adjust the car on the lazy sheet, then tack and adjust the new lazy sheet. If you can't tack and still must adjust, barber haul the loaded sheet. > > George > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: > > > > Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34. The owner wanted to move the jib car aft. He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled and told me to move the car. The car took off like a rocket aft, the change in angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still hanging onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which ended with his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side. That didn't work so well! > > > > John > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Cc: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> > > Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM > > Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > > > > > > > I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. > > > > We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. > > > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > > > On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. > > > > > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow through the slot with matched shapes. > > > > > >Cheers > > >Charlie > > > > > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pwestla@... > > >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM > > >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Allen - > > > > > >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? > > > > > >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. > > > > > >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on the water handily. > > > > > >Paul > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> > > >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am > > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > > > > > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > > > > > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > > > > > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. > > > > > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > > > > > >Allen > > > > > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> wrote: > > > > > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. > > > > > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. > > > > > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! > > > > > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > > > > > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jerry, > > >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. > > >David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From:Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@...> > > >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM > > >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > > > > > > > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. > > >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. > > > > > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. > > >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. > > >Hope this helps. > > >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. > > >Jerry Sobel > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From:sjoec <sjoec@...> > > > > > > > > >Meeting Notes > > >5/24/2012 > > > > > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > > > > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Speaking of under wind load, what is the procedure for moving the mainsail traveler around under load? Moving it down is no problem. Moving it up is next to impossible in heavy winds. I mostly single handle. The traveler on my Cal 29 has no special pulley system to make it easier to move under load. Should I have a pulley system or do I point into the wind to move it, which what I'm doing? Or is there something else to help with this problem? Thanks for your help. Doug Cal 29--Noregretta San Francisco Bay On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Terry Spencer <ts… [at] harbornet.com>wrote: > ** > > > If you are on a long tack and you do not wish to tack soon, you can use a > changing sheet led to another block on the same track. You lose a little > shape in the jib for the time it takes to move the car, but it goes quickly. > > Terry > > > On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, geobarlow wrote: > > > > > > My technique is to adjust the car on the lazy sheet, then tack and adjust > the new lazy sheet. If you can't tack and still must adjust, barber haul > the loaded sheet. > > George > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: > > > > Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34. The owner wanted to move the jib > car aft. He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled and > told me to move the car. The car took off like a rocket aft, the change in > angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still hanging > onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which ended with > his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side. That didn't work so well! > > > > > John > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Cc: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> > > Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM > > Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > > > > > > > I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main > traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 > feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the > next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to > release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. > > > > We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in > Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken > blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I > have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still > too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the > cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. > > > > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > > > On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper > part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. > > > > > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical > “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow > through the slot with matched shapes. > > > > > >Cheers > > >Charlie > > > > > > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pwestla@... > > >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM > > >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Allen - > > > > > >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler > down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep > the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car > lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber > hauler? > > > > > >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed > wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've > gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want > to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a > twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the > #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in > next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. > > > > > >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch > and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat > including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed > with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been > out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started > sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a > J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and > got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple > tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the > yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and > carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run > to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on > the water handily. > > > > > > >Paul > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> > > >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am > > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > > > > > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without > exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with > another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main > and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got > advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much > better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble > in it. > > > > > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We > lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 > degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the > main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. > (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is > strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > > > > > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their > boat the same way. Very cool. > > > > > > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > > > > > >Allen > > > > > > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> wrote: > > > > > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub > rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the > keel in the water. > > > > > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the > traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only > one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. > > > > > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the > water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, > fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! > > > > > > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > > > > > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jerry, > > >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to > sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over > look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes > to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail > up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with > the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been > doing this for too many years, am still learning. > > >David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From:Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@...> > > >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM > > >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] > Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > > > > > > > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. > > >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on > its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind > they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the > water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled > out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. > That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling > the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is > to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If > you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and > let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and > by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat > go faster. > > > > > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the > importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its > side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a > swim. > > >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's > reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can > do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to > properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to > put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want > to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. > > >Hope this helps. > > >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for > reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. > > >Jerry Sobel > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From:sjoec <sjoec@...> > > > > > > > > > >Meeting Notes > > >5/24/2012 > > > > > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > > > > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so > that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto > the floor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Asking the question about my mainsheet traveler got me searching the web. I have a one to one pulley system on my traveler. I think I need to add a pulley system that give me more purchase. I don't want a new traveler because they are very expensive. Here is good link on travelers. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/mainsheet-travelers.asp Doug Cal 29--Noregreta San Francisco Bay On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > Speaking of under wind load, what is the procedure for moving the mainsail > traveler around under load? Moving it down is no problem. Moving it up is > next to impossible in heavy winds. I mostly single handle. The traveler on > my Cal 29 has no special pulley system to make it easier to move under > load. Should I have a pulley system or do I point into the wind to move > it, which what I'm doing? Or is there something else to help with this > problem? > Thanks for your help. > Doug > Cal 29--Noregretta > San Francisco Bay > > > > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Terry Spencer <ts… [at] harbornet.com>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> If you are on a long tack and you do not wish to tack soon, you can use a >> changing sheet led to another block on the same track. You lose a little >> shape in the jib for the time it takes to move the car, but it goes quickly. >> >> Terry >> >> >> On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, geobarlow wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> My technique is to adjust the car on the lazy sheet, then tack and adjust >> the new lazy sheet. If you can't tack and still must adjust, barber haul >> the loaded sheet. >> >> George >> >> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: >> > >> > Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34. The owner wanted to move the jib >> car aft. He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled and >> told me to move the car. The car took off like a rocket aft, the change in >> angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still hanging >> onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which ended with >> his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side. That didn't work so well! >> >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> > Cc: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >> > Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM >> > Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi >> winds >> > >> > >> > >> > I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main >> traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 >> feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the >> next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to >> release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. >> > >> > We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in >> Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken >> blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I >> have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still >> too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the >> cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. >> >> > >> > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >> > >> > >> > On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the >> upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. >> > > >> > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical >> “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow >> through the slot with matched shapes. >> > > >> > >Cheers >> > >Charlie >> >> > > >> > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of pwestla@... >> > >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM >> > >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> > >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >Allen - >> > > >> > >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler >> down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep >> the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car >> lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber >> hauler? >> > > >> > >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed >> wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've >> gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want >> to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a >> twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the >> #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in >> next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. >> > > >> > >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch >> and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat >> including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed >> with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been >> out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started >> sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a >> J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and >> got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple >> tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the >> yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and >> carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run >> to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on >> the water handily. >> >> > > >> > >Paul >> > >-----Original Message----- >> > >From: Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> >> > >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> > >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am >> > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) >> > > >> > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without >> exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with >> another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main >> and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got >> advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much >> better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble >> in it. >> > > >> > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We >> lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 >> degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the >> main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. >> (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is >> strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. >> > > >> > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their >> boat the same way. Very cool. >> >> > > >> > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... >> > > >> > >Allen >> >> > > >> > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> wrote: >> > > >> > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the >> rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping >> the keel in the water. >> > > >> > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the >> traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only >> one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. >> > > >> > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the >> water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, >> fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! >> >> > > >> > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >> > > >> > > >> > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >Jerry, >> > >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to >> sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over >> look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes >> to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail >> up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with >> the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been >> doing this for too many years, am still learning. >> > >David Dobbs CAL29 411 >> > > >> > > >> >> > >________________________________ >> > > >> > >From:Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@...> >> > >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> > >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >> > >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: >> [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 >> > > >> > > >> > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >> > >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on >> its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind >> they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the >> water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled >> out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. >> That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling >> the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is >> to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If >> you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and >> let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and >> by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat >> go faster. >> > > >> > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the >> importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its >> side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a >> swim. >> > >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's >> reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can >> do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to >> properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to >> put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want >> to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. >> > >Hope this helps. >> > >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for >> reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >> > >Jerry Sobel >> > > >> > > >> > >________________________________ >> > > >> > >From:sjoec <sjoec@...> >> >> > > >> > > >> > >Meeting Notes >> > >5/24/2012 >> > > >> > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >> > > >> > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so >> that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto >> the floor. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> > >

John, Similar thing happened to me at the Start of the Corinthian Cup. I'd forgotten to move the jib car aft from the position it was in the previous, low wind race, and when Eric pulled the stopper pin up and pulled the car aft, the car came flying off the rail, leaving the block, car, and genoa thrashing in the breeze, and the plastic anti-friction insterts fell out..thankfully, on the deck and not on their way to Davy Jone's locker. We tacked over to give Eric a chance to put the car back together, and stayed on port tack long enuff to be sure we'd fetch the mark. Unfortunately, I missed the RT to the fleet saying the windward mark had blown down wind off its charted position, and next thing I knew, the rest of the fleet was making a bee line for the succeeding mark, was long gone, gone gone. So yeah, good idea not to mess around with a car under load with pin adjusters, unless you have room to ease it, or means to restrict, or lines control it's movement. Jerry From: John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34. The owner wanted to move the jib car aft. He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled and told me to move the car. The car took off like a rocket aft, the change in angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still hanging onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which ended with his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side. That didn't work so well! John From: Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow through the slot with matched shapes. > >Cheers >Charlie > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds > > > > > >Allen - > >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? > >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. > >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on the water handily. > >Paul >-----Original Message----- >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > >Allen > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > > > > >Jerry, >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. >David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > >________________________________ > >From:Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 > > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. >Hope this helps. >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >Jerry Sobel > > >________________________________ > >From:sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> > > >Meeting Notes >5/24/2012 > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. > > > > > > > > > > >

Doug, I rigged a 2:1 block system on my traveler, which came with nothing but small sliders with stopping pins to go on each side of the fiddler block/cam cleat slider. I used small wire cable blocks which are big enuff to handle 3/16 yacht double braid, and installed similar small blocks on either side of my fiddler block slider. I use small cam cleats adjacent to the traveler ends to hold the control line in place. I tied a keeper knot in one end of this line and ran it under the stopper slider. The stopper slider's thumb screws have been replaced by hex bolts and they are cranked down hard, permanently fixed to the ends of the traveler rail. A cheap system, but it works great. I just have to keep the traveler car and rail lubed good with dry lube or silicone spray so it doesn't bind under load, since it doesn't have a plastic insert or ball bearings. I guess I should photograph it since a picture is worth gobs of words. The main on the Cal 24 is actually pretty large, with a 11' long foot and nearly a 26' hoist. If it was a lot larger I'd go for double blocks on each end for more advantage. Jerry From: Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds Asking the question about my mainsheet traveler got me searching the web. I have a one to one pulley system on my traveler. I think I need to add a pulley system that give me more purchase. I don't want a new traveler because they are very expensive. Here is good link on travelers. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/mainsheet-travelers.asp Doug Cal 29--Noregreta San Francisco Bay On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Speaking of under wind load, what is the procedure for moving the mainsail traveler around under load? Moving it down is no problem. Moving it up is next to impossible in heavy winds. I mostly single handle. The traveler on my Cal 29 has no special pulley system to make it easier to move under load. Should I have a pulley system or do I point into the wind to move it, which what I'm doing? Or is there something else to help with this problem? >Thanks for your help. >Doug >Cal 29--Noregretta >San Francisco Bay > > > >On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Terry Spencer <ts… [at] harbornet.com> wrote: > > >> >>If you are on a long tack and you do not wish to tack soon, you can use a changing sheet led to another block on the same track. You lose a little shape in the jib for the time it takes to move the car, but it goes quickly. >> >> >>Terry >> >> >> >> >> >>On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, geobarlow wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>>My technique is to adjust the car on the lazy sheet, then tack and adjust the new lazy sheet. If you can't tack and still must adjust, barber haul the loaded sheet. >>> >>>George >>> >>>--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: >>>> >>> > Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34. The owner wanted to move the jib car aft. He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled and told me to move the car. The car took off like a rocket aft, the change in angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still hanging onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which ended with his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side. That didn't work so well! >>> >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >>>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>> Cc: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >>>> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. >>>> >>>> We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. >>> >>>> >>>> Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>> >>>> >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. >>>> > >>> > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow through the slot with matched shapes. >>>> > >>>> >Cheers >>>> >Charlie >>> >>>> > >>>> >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pwestla@... >>>> >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM >>>> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>> >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >Allen - >>>> > >>>> >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber hauler? >>>> > >>>> >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. >>>> > >>>> >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on the water handily. >>> >>>> > >>>> >Paul >>>> >-----Original Message----- >>>> >From: Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> >>>> >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>> >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am >>>> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) >>>> > >>> > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. >>>> > >>>> >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. >>>> > >>>> >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the same way. Very cool. >>> >>>> > >>>> >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... >>>> > >>> > >Allen >>> >>>> > >>>> >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> wrote: >>>> > >>> > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the water. >>>> > >>>> >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. >>>> > >>>> >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! >>> >>>> > >>>> >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >>>> > >>>> > >>> >>>> >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >Jerry, >>>> >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am still learning. >>>> >David Dobbs CAL29 411 >>>> > >>>> > >>> >>>> >________________________________ >>>> > >>>> >From:Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@...> >>>> >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>> >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>> >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >>>> >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 >>>> > >>>> > >>> >>>> >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >>>> >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. >>>> > >>> >>>> >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. >>>> >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works for me. >>>> >Hope this helps. >>>> >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >>>> >Jerry Sobel >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >________________________________ >>>> > >>>> >From:sjoec <sjoec@...> >>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >Meeting Notes >>>> >5/24/2012 >>>> > >>>> >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >>>> > >>> >>>> > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>> >>> >> >

I think I have 5:1 on Papoose's traveler. With 1:1 you could use a winch if you have one nearby. On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > Asking the question about my mainsheet traveler got me searching the web. > I have a one to one pulley system on my traveler. I think I need to add a > pulley system that give me more purchase. I don't want a new traveler > because they are very expensive. Here is good link on travelers. > http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/mainsheet-travelers.asp > Doug > Cal 29--Noregreta > San Francisco Bay > > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > >> Speaking of under wind load, what is the procedure for moving the >> mainsail traveler around under load? Moving it down is no problem. Moving >> it up is next to impossible in heavy winds. I mostly single handle. The >> traveler on my Cal 29 has no special pulley system to make it easier to >> move under load. Should I have a pulley system or do I point into the wind >> to move it, which what I'm doing? Or is there something else to help with >> this problem? >> Thanks for your help. >> Doug >> Cal 29--Noregretta >> San Francisco Bay >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Terry Spencer <ts… [at] harbornet.com>wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> If you are on a long tack and you do not wish to tack soon, you can use >>> a changing sheet led to another block on the same track. You lose a little >>> shape in the jib for the time it takes to move the car, but it goes quickly. >>> >>> Terry >>> >>> >>> On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, geobarlow wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> My technique is to adjust the car on the lazy sheet, then tack and >>> adjust the new lazy sheet. If you can't tack and still must adjust, barber >>> haul the loaded sheet. >>> >>> George >>> >>> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: >>> > >>> > Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34. The owner wanted to move the >>> jib car aft. He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled >>> and told me to move the car. The car took off like a rocket aft, the >>> change in angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still >>> hanging onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which >>> ended with his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side. That didn't >>> work so well! >>> >>> > >>> > John >>> > >>> > >>> > ________________________________ >>> > From: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >>> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>> > Cc: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >>> > Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi >>> winds >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main >>> traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 >>> feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the >>> next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to >>> release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. >>> > >>> > We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in >>> Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken >>> blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I >>> have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still >>> too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the >>> cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. >>> >>> > >>> > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >>> > >>> > >>> > On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the >>> upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. >>> > > >>> > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical >>> “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow >>> through the slot with matched shapes. >>> > > >>> > >Cheers >>> > >Charlie >>> >>> > > >>> > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On >>> Behalf Of pwestla@... >>> > >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM >>> > >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>> > >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >Allen - >>> > > >>> > >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the traveler >>> down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary to keep >>> the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust their car >>> lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a barber >>> hauler? >>> > > >>> > >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed >>> wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've >>> gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want >>> to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a >>> twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the >>> #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in >>> next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. >>> > > >>> > >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for lunch >>> and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the boat >>> including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd sailed >>> with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't been >>> out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just started >>> sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost beat a >>> J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind leg and >>> got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with multiple >>> tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the race to the >>> yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light house and >>> carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on wing run >>> to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won that leg on >>> the water handily. >>> >>> > > >>> > >Paul >>> > >-----Original Message----- >>> > >From: Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> >>> > >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>> > >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am >>> > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) >>> > > >>> > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without >>> exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with >>> another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main >>> and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got >>> advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much >>> better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble >>> in it. >>> > > >>> > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We >>> lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 >>> degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the >>> main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. >>> (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is >>> strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. >>> > > >>> > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their >>> boat the same way. Very cool. >>> >>> > > >>> > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... >>> > > >>> > >Allen >>> >>> > > >>> > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> wrote: >>> > > >>> > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the >>> rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping >>> the keel in the water. >>> > > >>> > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the >>> traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only >>> one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. >>> > > >>> > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the >>> water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, >>> fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! >>> >>> > > >>> > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >Jerry, >>> > >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to >>> sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over >>> look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes >>> to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail >>> up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with >>> the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been >>> doing this for too many years, am still learning. >>> > >David Dobbs CAL29 411 >>> > > >>> > > >>> >>> > >________________________________ >>> > > >>> > >From:Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@...> >>> > >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>> > >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>> > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >>> > >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: >>> [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >>> > >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat >>> "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind >>> they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the >>> water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled >>> out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. >>> That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling >>> the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is >>> to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If >>> you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and >>> let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and >>> by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat >>> go faster. >>> > > >>> > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the >>> importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its >>> side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a >>> swim. >>> > >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a >>> "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all >>> things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the >>> crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef >>> than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you >>> might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works >>> for me. >>> > >Hope this helps. >>> > >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for >>> reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >>> > >Jerry Sobel >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >________________________________ >>> > > >>> > >From:sjoec <sjoec@...> >>> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >Meeting Notes >>> > >5/24/2012 >>> > > >>> > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >>> > > >>> > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so >>> that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto >>> the floor. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> > >

yes, I guess I read a question in here about light airs and remembered the challenges with crew members that don't realize that their positions affect the speed in light airs especially. But this response came after being in the yard away from the computer and jumping into150 emails when I passed through the house. too much fiberglass in the bloodstream. the end is nowhere in sight! Helen From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 3, 2012 4:28:49 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) Helen, You talking about light winds now? Allen On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >Two things I do (on cal 29 and force 5 dinghy alike): one, get your crew to find >a place to lie flat and not interfere with the wind passing through the sails as >evenly as possible for balance throughout the boat, then two, don't move, as any >need to move your rudder to counteract their movement will slow you down, you >have enough to deal with when currents or waves head you off course. blocking >wind downwind not so bad, but the balance and no movement is still critical. >Used to do this on a santana 35, I did this on a cal 39 last fall to come from >way behind due to a halyard pin flying overboard to win the Black Lace Panty >Race our club sponsors every year.(all ladies on deck, one galley boy to serve >the crew snacks). Even the owner of the boat (the galley boy who let me >skipper)kept advising me differently(till we passed the competition). I expect >it to work on our 36 as well. Helen > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sun, June 3, 2012 7:31:50 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) > > > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without exception when I >sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with another sailor the advice >for high winds is traveler high to twist the main and spill wind at the top. > This is what I had always done until I got advice from another L-36 owner who >was able to handle high winds so much better than I was. Traveler low, sail >flat and let it out to put a bubble in it. > > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We lower the >traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 degrees. > Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the main, which I >hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. (Our courses are too >short to change sails mid race). When the wind is strong, I almost always win >so it seems to be an effective technique. > > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their boat the >same way. Very cool. > > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... > > >Allen > > > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > > >> >>I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the rub rail. I >>am using all of the available water line length and keeping the keel in the >>water. >> >> >>I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the traveler, >>tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only one wrap on >>the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. >> >> >>If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If the water gets >>a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a proven, fast way to sail >>a Cal 33-2!! >> >> >>Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >> >> >> >> >>On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>>Jerry, >>>A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to sail, "on >>>their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over look awesome, but >>>those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes to be mostly upright, >>>and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail up, wind is too strong, >>>etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with the right sail configuration >>>for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been doing this for too many years, am >>>still learning. >>>David Dobbs CAL29 411 >>> >>> >>> From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >>>To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: [mdrvmf] Meeting >>>notes 5/24/12 >>> >>> >>> >>>Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >>> >>>I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat "on its >>>feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind they can >>>handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the water, and >>>certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled out with less >>>heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. That means letting >>>the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling the mainsheet down hard to >>>flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is to tighten the vang real hard, >>>and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If you've used up all your traveler >>>adjustment, keep the vang down tight and let out your mainsail sheet. That will >>>dump excess wind, reduce heel, and by flattening the sail, reduce wind >>>resistance as well...letting the boat go faster. >>> >>> >>> >>>Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the importance of >>>cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its side, if you don't >>>do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a swim. >>>Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a "fisherman's reef" >>>which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all things you can do in a >>>pinch without taking the time, or without having the crew, to properly reef the >>>sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef than to put one in while off >>>shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you might want to consider reefing the >>>main before you leave the dock..works for me. >>>Hope this helps. >>>Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for reducing stress >>>and strain on its old skin and bones. >>> >>>Jerry Sobel >>> >>> >>> From: sjoec <sj… [at] roadrunner.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Meeting Notes >>>5/24/2012 >>> >>>Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >>> >>> The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so that the >>>water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto the floor. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >

Jerry and Allen-- Thanks for the ideas and info. This group is great! I grew up sailing on San Francisco Bay on a Folkboat with my father. I've owned my Cal 29 for a year and I'm still getting back up to speed. BTW, I'm 63. This group is very helpful. I love sailing my Cal 29, especially in the afternoon near the Golden Gate Bridge in 30 knot winds. Doug Cal 29--Noregreta San Francisco Bay On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com>wrote: > ** > > > I think I have 5:1 on Papoose's traveler. With 1:1 you could use a winch > if you have one nearby. > > > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Asking the question about my mainsheet traveler got me searching the >> web. I have a one to one pulley system on my traveler. I think I need to >> add a pulley system that give me more purchase. I don't want a new >> traveler because they are very expensive. Here is good link on travelers. >> http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/mainsheet-travelers.asp >> Doug >> Cal 29--Noregreta >> San Francisco Bay >> >> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Speaking of under wind load, what is the procedure for moving the >>> mainsail traveler around under load? Moving it down is no problem. Moving >>> it up is next to impossible in heavy winds. I mostly single handle. The >>> traveler on my Cal 29 has no special pulley system to make it easier to >>> move under load. Should I have a pulley system or do I point into the wind >>> to move it, which what I'm doing? Or is there something else to help with >>> this problem? >>> Thanks for your help. >>> Doug >>> Cal 29--Noregretta >>> San Francisco Bay >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Terry Spencer <ts… [at] harbornet.com>wrote: >>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> >>>> If you are on a long tack and you do not wish to tack soon, you can use >>>> a changing sheet led to another block on the same track. You lose a little >>>> shape in the jib for the time it takes to move the car, but it goes quickly. >>>> >>>> Terry >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, geobarlow wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My technique is to adjust the car on the lazy sheet, then tack and >>>> adjust the new lazy sheet. If you can't tack and still must adjust, barber >>>> haul the loaded sheet. >>>> >>>> George >>>> >>>> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Years ago I was out sailing a Cal 34. The owner wanted to move the >>>> jib car aft. He grabbed the sheet on the jib side of the car and pulled >>>> and told me to move the car. The car took off like a rocket aft, the >>>> change in angle allowed the jib to sheet out a little with the owner still >>>> hanging onto it, which pulled him off balance out of the cockpit which >>>> ended with his butt busting the aft port on the cabin side. That didn't >>>> work so well! >>>> >>>> > >>>> > John >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ________________________________ >>>> > From: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >>>> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>> > Cc: Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >>>> > Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi >>>> winds >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I agree with this technique. If I am still overpowered with the main >>>> traveler down and the mainsail flat, then I set the jib car aft by about 2 >>>> feet and tack. Then set the previous jib car aft 2 feet as well so the >>>> next tack has the same setting. I find it too dangerous to send someone to >>>> release the jib car aft while it is under load in high winds. >>>> > >>>> > We did sell some systems to people when I owned One Design Sailor in >>>> Houston so that the jib car could be moved under load. It involved Harken >>>> blocks fore and aft of the track with lines lead to the cockpit. Since I >>>> have not seen this talked about much since I believe that this was still >>>> too difficult due to the loads and only increased the clutter in the >>>> cockpit. I have never actually sailed on a boat with this equipment. >>>> >>>> > >>>> > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >Paul, jib blocks should go aft as wind picks up. This spills the >>>> upper part of the jib some, and cuts the heeling moment. >>>> > > >>>> > >I wonder about what dropping the traveler down does to the mystical >>>> “slot” between jib and main. Ideally, one should have a smooth airflow >>>> through the slot with matched shapes. >>>> > > >>>> > >Cheers >>>> > >Charlie >>>> >>>> > > >>>> > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] >>>> On Behalf Of pwestla@... >>>> > >Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:40 AM >>>> > >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>> > >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >Allen - >>>> > > >>>> > >We do the same thing, keep the jib sheeted tight and let the >>>> traveler down and vang down hard and sheet hard. Ease sheet as necessary >>>> to keep the boat on her feet. One question I have is does anyone adjust >>>> their car lead any differently in high winds to help shape the jib or use a >>>> barber hauler? >>>> > > >>>> > >Light air we bag the sails by lessening halyard tension for "speed >>>> wrinkles". Don't try to point as high and my favorite advice that I've >>>> gotten in really, really light air is just to point the boat where you want >>>> to go and adjust the sails as necessary when it fills in. On our CS with a >>>> twin groove headstay we have even gone so far as to hoist a #3 and drop the >>>> #1 (but keep it ready) as the #3 will fill faster and keep some shape in >>>> next to no wind. If it really built we could hoist the #1 and go. >>>> > > >>>> > >We just won an 18 mile race (9 miles upwind to a yacht club for >>>> lunch and then a race back) in 15-25 kt winds with 4 guys (+me) on the >>>> boat including a 16 yr old who'd never sailed, his 21yr old brother who'd >>>> sailed with us 2 or 3 times, their dad who is a good sailor but who hadn't >>>> been out in 2 years and never on our boat and a 25 yr old kid who just >>>> started sailing this summer and had been out with us on 3 races. We almost >>>> beat a J-111 on the water. We had passed him about midway up the upwind >>>> leg and got about a 100 yard lead and he slowly inched his way back with >>>> multiple tacks and got by us on the last tack to the finish line of the >>>> race to the yacht club and then on the way back downwind we rounded a light >>>> house and carried the tack until we could pole out the genny for a wing on >>>> wing run to the next mark and he opted to gybe all the way down. We won >>>> that leg on the water handily. >>>> >>>> > > >>>> > >Paul >>>> > >-----Original Message----- >>>> > >From: Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> >>>> > >To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>> > >Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 10:31 am >>>> > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds (Jerry) >>>> > > >>>> > >I have found this discussion very interesting. Almost without >>>> exception when I sail on someone else's boat or have a discussion with >>>> another sailor the advice for high winds is traveler high to twist the main >>>> and spill wind at the top. This is what I had always done until I got >>>> advice from another L-36 owner who was able to handle high winds so much >>>> better than I was. Traveler low, sail flat and let it out to put a bubble >>>> in it. >>>> > > >>>> > >I do 95% of my racing in high winds, 20+. We almost never reef. We >>>> lower the traveler and let the main out to control the heel aiming at 25 >>>> degrees. Sometimes we end up with too much headsail and have to flog the >>>> main, which I hate, but we need to keep the boat from heeling too much. >>>> (Our courses are too short to change sails mid race). When the wind is >>>> strong, I almost always win so it seems to be an effective technique. >>>> > > >>>> > >So, I was really surprised to hear so many Cal owners who sail their >>>> boat the same way. Very cool. >>>> >>>> > > >>>> > >Now if I can just figure out how to go fast in light winds... >>>> > > >>>> > >Allen >>>> >>>> > > >>>> > >On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Donald C Dutton <dnlddttn@...> >>>> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > >I never allow the water to get any higher than 3-4 inches below the >>>> rub rail. I am using all of the available water line length and keeping >>>> the keel in the water. >>>> > > >>>> > >I use the same techniques as Paul to flatten the main -- lower the >>>> traveler, tighten the sheet and vang, and tighten the outhaul. I keep only >>>> one wrap on the main sheet so it can be blown quickly if need be. >>>> > > >>>> > >If that is not enough, I reef the main and keep the jib full. If >>>> the water gets a foot below the rub rail, I blow the reef. This is a >>>> proven, fast way to sail a Cal 33-2!! >>>> >>>> > > >>>> > >Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >On May 31, 2012, at 6:57 PM, david dobbs wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >Jerry, >>>> > >A nice reminder, and true especially for our CALs, which all like to >>>> sail, "on their feet". Those pictures you see of boats heeled way over >>>> look awesome, but those boats may not be sailing effectively. My 29 likes >>>> to be mostly upright, and if we heel a bunch it means I have too much sail >>>> up, wind is too strong, etc. It's a balancing act, get the most speed with >>>> the right sail configuration for the conditions. Easy! NOT! I've been >>>> doing this for too many years, am still learning. >>>> > >David Dobbs CAL29 411 >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > >________________________________ >>>> > > >>>> > >From:Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@...> >>>> > >To: "md… [at] yahoogroups.com" <md… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>> > >Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>> > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:09 PM >>>> > >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing fast and safe in hi winds was:Re: >>>> [mdrvmf] Meeting notes 5/24/12 >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >Joe and fellow members, and sailors. >>>> > >I just wanted to mention about the importance of keeping your boat >>>> "on its feet". Once you're in a situation where the sails have all the wind >>>> they can handle, called "powered-up" you'll make better speed thru the >>>> water, and certainly better up wind progress, by keeping the boat leveled >>>> out with less heel, which gives the keel more lift or "bite" in the water. >>>> That means letting the traveler slide all the way to leeward and pulling >>>> the mainsheet down hard to flatten the mainsail. Other things you can do is >>>> to tighten the vang real hard, and pull down on the back stay adjuster. If >>>> you've used up all your traveler adjustment, keep the vang down tight and >>>> let out your mainsail sheet. That will dump excess wind, reduce heel, and >>>> by flattening the sail, reduce wind resistance as well...letting the boat >>>> go faster. >>>> > > >>>> > >Those of you like myself, who started out on dinghies, know the >>>> importance of cutting the main sheet when the boat is heeling over on its >>>> side, if you don't do it quickly, you'll end up capsized and going for a >>>> swim. >>>> > >Another thing that helps is to backwind the jib, called a >>>> "fisherman's reef" which works similar to being "hove-to". These are all >>>> things you can do in a pinch without taking the time, or without having the >>>> crew, to properly reef the sail. Of course, it is easier to take out a reef >>>> than to put one in while off shore, so, if it's blowing like stink, you >>>> might want to consider reefing the main before you leave the dock..works >>>> for me. >>>> > >Hope this helps. >>>> > >Stay safe!! You're crew will thank you and so will your boat for >>>> reducing stress and strain on its old skin and bones. >>>> > >Jerry Sobel >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >________________________________ >>>> > > >>>> > >From:sjoec <sjoec@...> >>>> >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >Meeting Notes >>>> > >5/24/2012 >>>> > > >>>> > >Marina del Rey Venture MacGregor Fleet >>>> > > >>>> > > The wind got quite strong and our Commodore had his boat heeled so >>>> that the water was over the windows and the oil ran out of his engine onto >>>> the floor. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >

Our boat came with a one to one Schaefer system and was impossible to pull back up under anything but the lightest conditions. We put an Harken system on the boat with a 4:1 system mounted on the traveler bar. My wife could now pull the traveler back to windward with one hand much less needing a winch!! Cost a bit to do, but worth it's weight in gold when the conditions changed. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On Jun 5, 2012, at 9:03 AM, Doug Johnson wrote: > > Jerry and Allen-- > Thanks for the ideas and info. This group is great! I grew up sailing on San Francisco Bay on a Folkboat with my father. I've owned my Cal 29 for a year and I'm still getting back up to speed. BTW, I'm 63. This group is very helpful. I love sailing my Cal 29, especially in the afternoon near the Golden Gate Bridge in 30 knot winds. > > Doug > Cal 29--Noregreta > San Francisco Bay > > >

I have the MT-1 on Papoose. It is $325. It is set up for 4:1. I have re-rigged mine to 5:1by adding one block to the rail. Previous to getting the traveler, I used long control lines to the secondary winches. Notice the continuous control line so that there is not a lot of traveler string in the cockpit. If you are wondering about the mainsheet system, it is double ended with the cleat in the picture and a winch on the cabin top. [image: Inline image 1] Allen On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net>wrote: > ** > > > Our boat came with a one to one Schaefer system and was impossible to pull > back up under anything but the lightest conditions. We put an Harken > system on the boat with a 4:1 system mounted on the traveler bar. My wife > could now pull the traveler back to windward with one hand much less > needing a winch!! Cost a bit to do, but worth it's weight in gold when the > conditions changed. > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > On Jun 5, 2012, at 9:03 AM, Doug Johnson wrote: > > > > Jerry and Allen-- > Thanks for the ideas and info. This group is great! I grew up sailing on > San Francisco Bay on a Folkboat with my father. I've owned my Cal 29 for a > year and I'm still getting back up to speed. BTW, I'm 63. This group is > very helpful. I love sailing my Cal 29, especially in the afternoon near > the Golden Gate Bridge in 30 knot winds. > > Doug > Cal 29--Noregreta > San Francisco Bay > > > > > >