What would you do?

I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. Allen

Allen, I don't know if, with that sea state, they'd have heard you if you'd yelled "Starboard". And if they hadn't seen you you'd be REALLY kicking yourself if you didn't tack and they'd T bone you and sunk Papoose, potentially with loss of life as well. You did the right thing. Maybe you need to put an air horn on Papoose? Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. Allen

If you look carefully you can see my tactician waving and yelling something. To tell the truth, I wasn't too please with his answer that he would have tacked or ducked me. I would have expected if he was going to miss me and was 2 boat lengths away, 6 seconds, that he would have already decided which he was going to do. I would also have expected to have seem people move on the boat to get ready for whatever it was he was about to do and if he was ducking me, to see the boat change course. I didn't see any of this so I tacked. He said he did not hear us yell starboard. He said I should have held course but I agree with you. It is only a beer can race and we were well ahead. Why sink the boat to prove we had right of way? That said, it kind of pissed me off that he would even think of engaging me. I was chasing the boat that came in second. He owned me almost 4 minutes and we were 1/4 mile from the finish. Why would he want to slow me down? It is like in Indy when one of the lapped cars won't pull over and let one of the leaders by. Allen On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:51 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > ** > > > Allen, I don't know if, with that sea state, they'd have heard you if > you'd yelled "Starboard". And if they hadn't seen you you'd be REALLY > kicking yourself if you didn't tack and they'd T bone you and sunk Papoose, > potentially with loss of life as well. You did the right thing. Maybe you > need to put an air horn on Papoose? > Jerry > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] What would you do? > > > I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would > do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto > Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port > tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. > What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat > claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked > us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two > boat lengths away. > > http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 > > By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second > place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 > (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all > boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is > 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. > > Allen > > > >

Allen, I'm not a racer, strictly cruising and supping beer is my game!, but to my mind you did exactly the right thing, why risk yours and your crews safety for an a*****e, it really is not worth it - there's always next time where you'll know his tactics (or the car park if all else fails!). and above all else even though they ignored colregs there's always rule 2b....... Grae Morrison On 6/27/2012 4:08 AM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > If you look carefully you can see my tactician waving and yelling > something. To tell the truth, I wasn't too please with his answer > that he would have tacked or ducked me. I would have expected if he > was going to miss me and was 2 boat lengths away, 6 seconds, that he > would have already decided which he was going to do. I would also > have expected to have seem people move on the boat to get ready for > whatever it was he was about to do and if he was ducking me, to see > the boat change course. I didn't see any of this so I tacked. He > said he did not hear us yell starboard. > > > He said I should have held course but I agree with you. It is only a > beer can race and we were well ahead. Why sink the boat to prove we > had right of way? > > That said, it kind of pissed me off that he would even think of > engaging me. I was chasing the boat that came in second. He owned me > almost 4 minutes and we were 1/4 mile from the finish. Why would he > want to slow me down? It is like in Indy when one of the lapped cars > won't pull over and let one of the leaders by. > > Allen > > On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:51 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com > <mailto:so… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: > > Allen, I don't know if, with that sea state, they'd have heard you > if you'd yelled "Starboard". And if they hadn't seen you you'd be > REALLY kicking yourself if you didn't tack and they'd T bone you > and sunk Papoose, potentially with loss of life as well. You did > the right thing. Maybe you need to put an air horn on Papoose? > Jerry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com > <mailto:al… [at] gmail.com>> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] What would you do? > > I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you > would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. > I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a > collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I > tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? > Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would > not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They > didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two > boat lengths away. > > http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 > > By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of > the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We > beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 > (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the > C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth > was a very good designer, imho. > > Allen > > > >

Timing is the issue, A boat tacking must keep clear of a boat on a tack. If you have completed your tack and are sailing your proper course you should hail the PT boat, the hail should come from the skipper or helmsman not the tactitian. The PT boat must respond "Hold your course" and either tack away or bear away. If it is your judgment that collision is imminent take action and notify The other yacht "I am protesting you " Show a red flag from your backstay. Use the vhf radio to notify the RC. Note the time of the incident and the time your radio call to RC was acknowledged. File the protest within the time limit. This whole notion that "Beer Can" racing is "Fun" racing is nonsense. When others accept the invitation to race they agree to follow the rules. Race officials don't want to hear protests because few really understand the rules. Your safety and property was put at risk . Next time protest, you may not win the protest because your competitor's story may be at odds with the facts( People often do not tell the truth) but you will have the satisfaction of doing the right thing by insisting that all follow the same rules. My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. Allen

I was once in the port tack boat's shoes. We were on port and another boat (Dennis Conner's although he wasn't aboard) was approaching on starboard. We saw them pinching up to try to establish a port-starboard situation. They were yelling, "Starboard" and I was hailing them to "Hold your course" as they would pass well astern. They made a great show of altering course to pass astern from the pinched course they were on. Of course, they protested. The hearing wasn't held until after midnight and most of the crew had left. We lost and I swore I would carry a camera after that. It cost us a first in Long Beach Race Week. The other boat was for sale and I think they had a prospective buyer aboard and wanted to get a win any way they could. It still rankles with me. MIke Kennedy On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:53 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Timing is the issue, A boat tacking must keep clear of a boat on a > tack. If you have completed your tack and are sailing your proper course > you should hail the PT boat, the hail should come from the skipper or > helmsman not the tactitian. The PT boat must respond "Hold your course" > and either tack away or bear away. If it is your judgment that collision is > imminent take action and notify The other yacht "I am protesting you " > Show a red flag from your backstay. Use the vhf radio to notify the RC. > Note the time of the incident and the time your radio call to RC was > acknowledged. File the protest within the time limit. > This whole notion that "Beer Can" racing is "Fun" racing is nonsense. > When others accept the invitation to race they agree to follow the rules. > Race officials don't want to hear protests because few really understand > the rules. Your safety and property was put at risk . > Next time protest, you may not win the protest because your > competitor's story may be at odds with the facts( People often do not tell > the truth) but you will have the satisfaction of doing the right thing by > insisting that all follow the same rules. > My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] What would you do? > > > > I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would > do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto > Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port > tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. > What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat > claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked > us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two > boat lengths away. > > http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 > > By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second > place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 > (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all > boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is > 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. > > Allen > > > > > >

Allen, Unless you know the driver and the boat well enough to know that they would have ducked or tacked, you did the right thing. Greg --- On Wed, 6/27/12, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 27, 2012, 12:10 AM I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. Allen

and, if you protest them, they may be less likely to push the envelope in the future, even if they win. Besides, a protest is a learning opportunity. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com CC: mb… [at] sbcglobal.net From: ve… [at] yahoo.com Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 05:53:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? Timing is the issue, A boat tacking must keep clear of a boat on a tack. If you have completed your tack and are sailing your proper course you should hail the PT boat, the hail should come from the skipper or helmsman not the tactitian. The PT boat must respond "Hold your course" and either tack away or bear away. If it is your judgment that collision is imminent take action and notify The other yacht "I am protesting you " Show a red flag from your backstay. Use the vhf radio to notify the RC. Note the time of the incident and the time your radio call to RC was acknowledged. File the protest within the time limit. This whole notion that "Beer Can" racing is "Fun" racing is nonsense. When others accept the invitation to race they agree to follow the rules. Race officials don't want to hear protests because few really understand the rules. Your safety and property was put at risk . Next time protest, you may not win the protest because your competitor's story may be at odds with the facts( People often do not tell the truth) but you will have the satisfaction of doing the right thing by insisting that all follow the same rules. My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. Allen

Mike Farrell has THE answer. Can't race if we all don't use the same rules. Your cockpit cam would provide evidence in your favor or not. Mike On Jun 27, 2012, at 5:54 AM, "mike farrell" <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Timing is the issue, A boat tacking must keep clear of a boat on a tack. If you have completed your tack and are sailing your proper course you should hail the PT boat, the hail should come from the skipper or helmsman not the tactitian. The PT boat must respond "Hold your course" and either tack away or bear away. If it is your judgment that collision is imminent take action and notify The other yacht "I am protesting you " Show a red flag from your backstay. Use the vhf radio to notify the RC. Note the time of the incident and the time your radio call to RC was acknowledged. File the protest within the time limit. > This whole notion that "Beer Can" racing is "Fun" racing is nonsense. When others accept the invitation to race they agree to follow the rules. Race officials don't want to hear protests because few really understand the rules. Your safety and property was put at risk . > Next time protest, you may not win the protest because your competitor's story may be at odds with the facts( People often do not tell the truth) but you will have the satisfaction of doing the right thing by insisting that all follow the same rules. > My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? > > > > I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. > > http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 > > By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. > > Allen > > > > > > >

Videos a From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 3:10 am Subject: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. Allen

Thank You, My best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 From: Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? Mike Farrell has THE answer. Can't race if we all don't use the same rules. Your cockpit cam would provide evidence in your favor or not. Mike On Jun 27, 2012, at 5:54 AM, "mike farrell" <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Timing is the issue, A boat tacking must keep clear of a boat on a tack. If you have completed your tack and are sailing your proper course you should hail the PT boat, the hail should come from the skipper or helmsman not the tactitian. The PT boat must respond "Hold your course" and either tack away or bear away. If it is your judgment that collision is imminent take action and notify The other yacht "I am protesting you " Show a red flag from your backstay. Use the vhf radio to notify the RC. Note the time of the incident and the time your radio call to RC was acknowledged. File the protest within the time limit. > This whole notion that "Beer Can" racing is "Fun" racing is nonsense. When others accept the invitation to race they agree to follow the rules. Race officials don't want to hear protests because few really understand the rules. Your safety and property was put at risk . > Next time protest, you may not win the protest because your competitor's story may be at odds with the facts( People often do not tell the truth) but you will have the satisfaction of doing the right thing by insisting that all follow the same rules. > My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 > > > >________________________________ >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? > > > > >I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. > > >http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 > > >By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. > > >Allen > > > >

I have lost protests in 5 of 7 I have entered. I have been talked out of protesting many times in the last 30 years. This is an imperfect system! My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA 57313 From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? I was once in the port tack boat's shoes. We were on port and another boat (Dennis Conner's although he wasn't aboard) was approaching on starboard. We saw them pinching up to try to establish a port-starboard situation. They were yelling, "Starboard" and I was hailing them to "Hold your course" as they would pass well astern. They made a great show of altering course to pass astern from the pinched course they were on. Of course, they protested. The hearing wasn't held until after midnight and most of the crew had left. We lost and I swore I would carry a camera after that. It cost us a first in Long Beach Race Week. The other boat was for sale and I think they had a prospective buyer aboard and wanted to get a win any way they could. It still rankles with me. MIke Kennedy On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:53 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > Timing is the issue, A boat tacking must keep clear of a boat on a tack. If you have completed your tack and are sailing your proper course you should hail the PT boat, the hail should come from the skipper or helmsman not the tactitian. The PT boat must respond "Hold your course" and either tack away or bear away. If it is your judgment that collision is imminent take action and notify The other yacht "I am protesting you " Show a red flag from your backstay. Use the vhf radio to notify the RC. Note the time of the incident and the time your radio call to RC was acknowledged. File the protest within the time limit. > This whole notion that "Beer Can" racing is "Fun" racing is nonsense. When others accept the invitation to race they agree to follow the rules. Race officials don't want to hear protests because few really understand the rules. Your safety and property was put at risk . > Next time protest, you may not win the protest because your competitor's story may be at odds with the facts( People often do not tell the truth) but you will have the satisfaction of doing the right thing by insisting that all follow the same rules. > My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 > > >From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:10 AM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] What would you do? > > > > > >I think that is the title of a TV show but I am wondering what you would do in the situation I had near the end of the race tonight. I tacked onto Starboard at the layline and put myself on a collision course with a port tack boat, a Catalina 400. I tacked onto Port to avoid hitting them. What would you have done? Should I have held my course? The other boat claimed they would not have hit us, they would have tacked on us or ducked us. They didn't understand why I would tack when we were still two boat lengths away. > > >http://youtu.be/eRHV4bljoW8 > > >By the way, we won the race, about 2 minutes corrected ahead of the second place boat and the second boat across the line. We beat the Catalina 400 (102), a Newport-41 (114), the Tartan-10 (126) and some smaller boats all boat for boat. Only the C&C-41(72) beat us boat for boat. Our handicap is 150. Lapworth was a very good designer, imho. > > >Allen > > > >