Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem

Hi all, My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! Lucas.

Lucas, I would think it prudent to cut an access hole into that sealed off portion of the forepeak. I'm not familiar with the 36, but on the 29 there is a good sized anchor locker with access from the v-berth. I can squiggle in on my back (barely) and look up into the very nose of my boat and work with all of the fasteners and backing plates as necessary. Do you have access to either of the two 36s that you referenced? Maybe get a peek at how they are set up. HTH... Wilkie On Jul 12, 2012, at 2:22 PM, stiltickin wrote: Hi all, My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! Lucas. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Find a zipsaw and cut the bulkhead out. You can easily glass it back. Geo. Barlow On Jul 12, 2012, at 8:28 PM, David Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: > Lucas, > > I would think it prudent to cut an access hole into that sealed off portion of the forepeak. I'm not familiar with the 36, but on the 29 there is a good sized anchor locker with access from the v-berth. I can squiggle in on my back (barely) and look up into the very nose of my boat and work with all of the fasteners and backing plates as necessary. > > Do you have access to either of the two 36s that you referenced? Maybe get a peek at how they are set up. > > HTH... > > Wilkie > > On Jul 12, 2012, at 2:22 PM, stiltickin wrote: > > Hi all, > > My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > > One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > > The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. > > The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. > > Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! > Lucas. > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

I could only see the boats from the outside as they are just sitting in a marina (Sausalito YH). One of them I might be able to check out if the owner happens to be around (he's been working on his boat quite a bit). But regardless, definitely seems like the next step is to cut open an inspection port at least. Thanks for all the replies! Lucas. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, David Owen <dwilkieo@...> wrote: > > Lucas, > > I would think it prudent to cut an access hole into that sealed off portion of the forepeak. I'm not familiar with the 36, but on the 29 there is a good sized anchor locker with access from the v-berth. I can squiggle in on my back (barely) and look up into the very nose of my boat and work with all of the fasteners and backing plates as necessary. > > Do you have access to either of the two 36s that you referenced? Maybe get a peek at how they are set up. > > HTH... > > Wilkie > > > > On Jul 12, 2012, at 2:22 PM, stiltickin wrote: > > Hi all, > > My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > > One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > > The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. > > The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. > > Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! > Lucas. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Isn't bronze less susceptible to fatigue than stainless steel? Is it possible that it is bent from bumping something, but otherwise OK? I'd hate to be responsible for the rig coming down by giving an alternate idea, but, maybe you want somebody from Seals Spars (is that the right outfit/name?) who made, as I understand, the original rigging on the Cal before tearing up the boat too much. Could end up weakening the structure vs. strengthening it. I think my Cal 24 is built the same way, with the chainplate deeply embedded into the structure of the hull, as are the shrouds. I can't imagine getting at it without demolishing the hull. On your and other Cals, the shrouds, boltd to the bulkhead inboard of the hull, is a different story. There you have to concern yourself with dry rot where the chain plate is secured as well as the "dreaded beam" as Scotty would say. Otherwise, wold the P.O. of Holiday know what dah dealeeoh? Jerry From: stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 10:24 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem I could only see the boats from the outside as they are just sitting in a marina (Sausalito YH). One of them I might be able to check out if the owner happens to be around (he's been working on his boat quite a bit). But regardless, definitely seems like the next step is to cut open an inspection port at least. Thanks for all the replies! Lucas. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, David Owen <dwilkieo@...> wrote: > > Lucas, > > I would think it prudent to cut an access hole into that sealed off portion of the forepeak. I'm not familiar with the 36, but on the 29 there is a good sized anchor locker with access from the v-berth. I can squiggle in on my back (barely) and look up into the very nose of my boat and work with all of the fasteners and backing plates as necessary. > > Do you have access to either of the two 36s that you referenced? Maybe get a peek at how they are set up. > > HTH... > > Wilkie > > > > On Jul 12, 2012, at 2:22 PM, stiltickin wrote: > > Hi all, > > My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > > One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > > The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. > > The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. > > Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! > Lucas. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. Mike Kennedy On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: > ** > > > Hi all, > > My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. > Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm > guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > > One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead > chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see > (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty > good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > > The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, > but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between > the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the > bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows > no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) > that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes > redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop > the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass > itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of > huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on > two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures > of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list > later. > > The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually > glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of > backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any > pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My > understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point > in the past. > > Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! > Lucas. > > >

*´¨) ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) Timm Lessley From: Stan Honey [mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant Hi Fin, What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. Metal yield strength kpsi C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 SS plate 304 31 The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. Happy Holidays, Stan and Sally -------- Stan Honey US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant Stan and Sally ... Where in the world are you ?? I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! Fin. Subject: "Progress" on Radiant Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images Photos of the tear-out. This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com> wrote: The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. Mike Kennedy On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: Hi all, My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! Lucas.

Timm, Ugghh, crevice corrosion. That's probably what's causing the wrinkles in me skin. Like the Dark Ages, the Iron Age must have been one giant step back from the Bronze Age for chain plates. Just goes to show you, you can never trust what they teached you in Public School. Or taut you. Jerry From: Timm <ti… [at] danishmarineco.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem [8 Attachments] *´¨) ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) Timm Lessley From: Stan Honey [mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant Hi Fin, What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. Metal yield strength kpsi C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 SS plate 304 31 The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. Happy Holidays, Stan and Sally -------- Stan Honey US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant Stan and Sally ... Where in the world are you ?? I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! Fin. Subject: "Progress" on Radiant Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images >Photos of the tear-out. > >This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. >To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com> wrote: The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. Mike Kennedy On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: > >Hi all, > >My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > >One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > >The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. > >The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. > >Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! >Lucas. > >

Jerry, you are showing your brass, much less your bronze. Greetings from Long Beach, CA, where I am right now. Right next to Alamitos yacht basin (or whatever it is called). Met some folks today who are headed for MDR. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:15 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem Timm, Ugghh, crevice corrosion. That's probably what's causing the wrinkles in me skin. Like the Dark Ages, the Iron Age must have been one giant step back from the Bronze Age for chain plates. Just goes to show you, you can never trust what they teached you in Public School. Or taut you. Jerry From: Timm <ti… [at] danishmarineco.com<mailto:ti… [at] danishmarineco.com>> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem [8 Attachments] *´¨) ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) Timm Lessley From: Stan Honey [mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net]<mailto:[mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net]> Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant Hi Fin, What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. Metal yield strength kpsi C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 SS plate 304 31 The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. Happy Holidays, Stan and Sally -------- Stan Honey US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com]<mailto:[mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com]> Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant Stan and Sally ... Where in the world are you ?? I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! Fin. Subject: "Progress" on Radiant [cid:image001.jpg@01CD6224.487B3070] [cid:image002.jpg@01CD6224.487B3070] Photo E-mail Play slideshow<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B%211JmZao%21iR2Cw0xkempWprU7YUqL%21LcjkQCd9WHRy49NK27FGu9RV%21*o*CXl8dDvOWVOQAuV6PdKyw%24%24> | Download images<http://photos.msn.com/viewing/Photos.aspx?pi_Type=SlideshowTask&Task=Download&stppData=&pi_ImagesOnly=1&Folder=nBuRgwTGIGgOPXBotYNhUnHBal9xIHCD1e0ACPCuLVU%24&User=heRNVFXLFsMMpW*cxAMk6D2wybruP2x*&pi_NoLogin=1> Photos of the tear-out. [cid:image003.jpg@01CD6224.487B3070] [cid:image004.jpg@01CD6224.487B3070] [cid:image005.jpg@01CD6224.487B3070] [cid:image006.jpg@01CD6224.487B3070] [cid:image007.jpg@01CD6224.487B3070] This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN<http://g.msn.com/0PHenus1/29>. On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com<mailto:mt… [at] gmail.com>> wrote: The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. Mike Kennedy On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org<mailto:yg… [at] xsiv.org>> wrote: Hi all, My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! Lucas.

I machined chainplates out of C954 bronze purchased from onlinemetals.com and they have started rusting within the first year. :( On Jul 14, 2012, at 4:33 PM, Timm <ti… [at] danishmarineco.com> wrote: > > > > > > *´¨) > ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) > (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) > <cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70> > Timm Lessley > > From: Stan Honey [mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net] > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM > To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' > Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' > Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant > > Hi Fin, > > What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! > > Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. > > Metal yield strength kpsi > > C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 > SS plate 304 31 > > The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. > > I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. > > We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. > > While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. > > We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. > > Happy Holidays, > Stan and Sally > > > > > > -------- > Stan Honey > US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 > To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney > Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase > Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant > > Stan and Sally ... > > Where in the world are you ?? > > I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. > > When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. > > If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: > > - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? > > - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. > > As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! > > Fin. > > > Subject: "Progress" on Radiant > > <image.png> > > <image.png> > Photo E-mail > Play slideshow | Download images > Photos of the tear-out. > <image.png> > > <image.png> > > <image.png> > > <image.png> > > <image.png> > > > This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. > To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. > > > Mike Kennedy > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: > > Hi all, > > My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > > One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > > The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. > > The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. > > Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! > Lucas. > >

The bronze selection may not have been the best corrosion resistant being 3-5% Iron, however it does make a stronger alloy. ----- Original Message ----- From: Adam Thorp To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem I machined chainplates out of C954 bronze purchased from onlinemetals.com and they have started rusting within the first year. :( Sent from my iPhone On Jul 14, 2012, at 4:33 PM, Timm <ti… [at] danishmarineco.com> wrote: *´¨) ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) <cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70> Timm Lessley From: Stan Honey [mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant Hi Fin, What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. Metal yield strength kpsi C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 SS plate 304 31 The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. Happy Holidays, Stan and Sally -------- Stan Honey US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant Stan and Sally ... Where in the world are you ?? I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! Fin. Subject: "Progress" on Radiant <image.png> <image.png> Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images Photos of the tear-out. <image.png> <image.png> <image.png> <image.png> <image.png> This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. Sent from my iPad On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com> wrote: The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. Mike Kennedy On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: Hi all, My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! Lucas. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7299 (20120714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7299 (20120714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Adam, Rusting Bronze? Sounds like counterfeit bronze. Probably being used to smuggle rare earth metals, like yitterbummerium, sleazium and fool's gold from secret Chinese mines along the River Kwi known only to dissident members of the Emperial Japanese Army that never surrendered to the Allies. Bonzai! Jerry Seriously, tho, I can't tell you how many bronze ball and check valves I got from my local plumbing supply chain over the years (Ferguson, their "house brand") that developed little brown pits and concentric circles of strange colored stains and deposits. Probably should send it off to the local university for qualitative and quantitative analysis by undergraduate inorganic Chem. majors, to track down the culprits and bring justice to this land. From: Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem I machined chainplates out of C954 bronze purchased from onlinemetals.com and they have started rusting within the first year. :( On Jul 14, 2012, at 4:33 PM, Timm <ti… [at] danishmarineco.com> wrote: > > > > > *´¨) > ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) >(¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) <cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70> Timm Lessley > >From: Stan Honey [mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net] >Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM >To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' >Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' >Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant > >Hi Fin, > >What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! > >Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. > >We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. > >Metal yield strength kpsi > >C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 >SS plate 304 31 > >The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. > >I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. > >We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. > >While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. > >We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. > >Happy Holidays, >Stan and Sally > > > > > >-------- >Stan Honey >US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 > >From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] >Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 >To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney >Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase >Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant > >Stan and Sally ... > >Where in the world are you ?? > >I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. > >When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. > >If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: > > - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? > > - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. > >As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! > >Fin. > > >Subject: "Progress" on Radiant > <image.png> <image.png> Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images >>Photos of the tear-out. <image.png> <image.png> <image.png> <image.png> <image.png> >> >>This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. >>To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. >Sent from my iPad > >On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > >The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. > > >Mike Kennedy > > >On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: > > >> >>Hi all, >> >>My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. >> >>One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. >> >>The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. >> >>The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. >> >>Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! >>Lucas. >> >> >

Charlie, You are at my home marina 1967 to 1988. Cal 25 to Cal 46. Many happy memories. Bobbie and I were back there June 20 to July 2 for my oldest Granddaughter's wedding in Temecula. I was so proud, she got married in a vineyard next to the winery. Then we visited friends in Long Beach lunch at the "Schooner or Later". We have put many miles under Satori's keel since Alamitos Bay, but the BEST sailing anywhere is out of Long Beach California. Tom & Bobbie Vandiver, swallowed the anchor in Bayou Chico, FL From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:56 PM Subject: RE: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem Jerry, you are showing your brass, much less your bronze. Greetings from Long Beach, CA, where I am right now. Right next to Alamitos yacht basin (or whatever it is called). Met some folks today who are headed for MDR. Cheers Charlie From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:15 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem Timm, Ugghh, crevice corrosion. That's probably what's causing the wrinkles in me skin. Like the Dark Ages, the Iron Age must have been one giant step back from the Bronze Age for chain plates. Just goes to show you, you can never trust what they teached you in Public School. Or taut you. Jerry From:Timm <ti… [at] danishmarineco.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem [8 Attachments] *´¨) ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) Timm Lessley From: Stan Honey [mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant Hi Fin, What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. Metal yield strength kpsi C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 SS plate 304 31 The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. Happy Holidays, Stan and Sally -------- Stan Honey US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant Stan and Sally ... Where in the world are you ?? I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! Fin. Subject: "Progress" on Radiant Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images >Photos of the tear-out. > > > > > >This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. >To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com> wrote: The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. Mike Kennedy On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: Hi all, My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! Lucas.

Tom, Santa Monica Bay sailing is fine too, consistent gorgeous weather and reliable winds which pipe up into the low teens most days. We had a wonderful "BBQ" race this afternoon with the Santa Monica Windjammer's Y.C., with the best turn out of competitors we've had in years. 'A' division was won by Joe Cowan who acquired former club members Jim and Emily Vassilion's consistently winning Cal 34 and polished her up with a new bottom job and new sails, to make her even more so. It didn't hurt that he is a skillful sailor in his own right, nor that today he put together a crew of experienced, enthusiastic and attentive sailors for today's race. The start was to be between the committee boat, a participating Santana 30-30, and buoy SS closest the breakwater, and I got surprised when he turned to wind about 100' shy of the buoy and turned head to wind. I had no choice but to do so as well to stop the boat to prevent from going over the line, but this left me dead in the water for the start, with the fleet coming down on me, blocking my wind, and rolling over me with speed. Oh well, better luck next time, but I did come away with a fifth place and an "honorable mention" for showing up to race. Next best thing was we had an awesome professional Jazz band and two knock'em dead vocalists, that had many folks dancing, bopping and gyrating along with the music. Jerry From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Alamitos Bay, Long Beach Marina Charlie, You are at my home marina 1967 to 1988. Cal 25 to Cal 46. Many happy memories. Bobbie and I were back there June 20 to July 2 for my oldest Granddaughter's wedding in Temecula. I was so proud, she got married in a vineyard next to the winery. Then we visited friends in Long Beach lunch at the "Schooner or Later". We have put many miles under Satori's keel since Alamitos Bay, but the BEST sailing anywhere is out of Long Beach California. Tom & Bobbie Vandiver, swallowed the anchor in Bayou Chico, FL From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:56 PM Subject: RE: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem Jerry, you are showing your brass, much less your bronze. Greetings from Long Beach, CA, where I am right now. Right next to Alamitos yacht basin (or whatever it is called). Met some folks today who are headed for MDR. Cheers Charlie From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:15 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem Timm, Ugghh, crevice corrosion. That's probably what's causing the wrinkles in me skin. Like the Dark Ages, the Iron Age must have been one giant step back from the Bronze Age for chain plates. Just goes to show you, you can never trust what they teached you in Public School. Or taut you. Jerry From:Timm <ti… [at] danishmarineco.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 36 - forestay chainplate problem [8 Attachments] *´¨) ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) Timm Lessley From: Stan Honey [mailto:st… [at] attglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant Hi Fin, What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. Metal yield strength kpsi C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 SS plate 304 31 The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. Happy Holidays, Stan and Sally -------- Stan Honey US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant Stan and Sally ... Where in the world are you ?? I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! Fin. Subject: "Progress" on Radiant Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images >Photos of the tear-out. > > > > > >This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. >To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] gmail.com> wrote: The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. Mike Kennedy On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: Hi all, My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! Lucas.

On 7/15/2012 2:02 AM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > > I machined chainplates out of C954 bronze purchased from > onlinemetals.com <http://onlinemetals.com> and they have started > rusting within the first year. :( I'm curious about "rusting." Somebody else mentioned some iron content in that alloy. Do you mean rusting like an old car in a Michigan winter, or just slight staining? Seems to me that we're always making tradeoffs, and some staining might be a worthwhile trade for freedom from crevice corrosion. Chris Campbell >

The OnlineMetals Guide to Bronze The term Bronze is applied to alloys of metal that are copper-based where tin is the main additive. This is not a hard and fast rule, however - some bronzes have phosphorus, manganese, aluminum or silicon as the main alloying ingredient. The primary traits of Bronze alloys are that of toughness, strength, corrosion resistance, electrical conductivity, and thermal conductivity. Depending on the alloy, there is a bronze for just about every application. OnlineMetals.com currently stocks four types of bronze in various shapes and sizes: C932 / SAE 660 - Bearing Bronze (available in HollowBar, Round) C954 - Aluminum Bronze (available in HollowBar, Rectangle, Round, Square) C655 - Silicon Bronze (available in Round) C863 - Manganese Bronze (available in HollowBar, Round) Bearing Bronze As the name implies, this is the most commonly used bronze in bushing and bearing applications. It is comparably easy to machine, and provides long life in applications where wear is a consideration. Bearing Bronze (C932), a/k/a SAE 660 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 35,000 Yield Strength, psi 20,000 Elongation in 2" 10% Brinell Hardness 65 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 81.0 - 85.0% Tin (Sn) 6.3 - 7.5% Lead 6.0 - 8.0% Zinc 2.0 - 4.0% Aluminum Bronze Aluminum bronzes are most valued for their higher strength and corrosion resistance as compared to other bronze alloys. These alloys are tarnish-resistant and show low rates of corrosion in atmospheric conditions, low oxidation rates at high temperatures, and low reactivity with sulfurous compounds and other exhaust products of combustion. They are also resistant to corrosion in sea water. Finally, they prevent colonization by marine organisms including algae, barnacles, and mussels. Aluminum bronzes are most commonly used in applications where their resistance to corrosion makes them preferable to other engineering materials. Aluminum Bronze, C954 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 85,000 Yield Strength, psi 32,000 Elongation in 2" 12% Brinell Hardness 170 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 83.0% min Iron (Fe) 3.0 - 5.0% Aluminum (Al) 10.0 - 11.5% Silicon Bronze Silicon Bronze is a high-strength, highly corrosion resistant material with nonmagnetic properties. It is generally as strong as steel. Because of its composition, it is more difficult to machine. However, it is excellent for use in general marine applications, as well as pumps and boilers. Silicon Bronze, C655 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 85,000 Yield Strength, psi 55,000 Elongation in 2" 20% Rockwell Hardness B90 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 97.0% min Iron (Fe) 0.8% max Manganese (Mn) 1.5% max Nickel (Ni) 0.6% max Lead (Pb) 0.5% max Silicon (Si) 2.8 - 3.8% Zinc (Zn) 1.5% max Manganese Bronze Manganese Bronze is a high-strength bronze alloy primarily used in heavy-duty applications. Manganese Bronze (C863) Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 119,000 Yield Strength, psi 66,700 Hardness, Brinell 225 Elongation at break 18% Machinability 8% Chemistry Copper (Cu) 60.0 - 68.0% Aluminum (Al) 3 - 7.5% Iron (Fe) 2.0 - 4.0% Manganese (Mn) 2.50 - 5.0% Zinc (Zn) 25.0% At OnlineMetals, we all failed shop class. Multiple times. As a matter of fact, our employment applications specifically ask to see people's grades for their high school shop classes. If they're too high, they go into the rejected pile. We're also not engineers, and cannot make any specific recommendations about the suitability of a given alloy, temper, or shape for your project or application. All technical data is for comparison purposes only and is NOT FOR DESIGN. It has been compiled from sources we believe to be accurate but cannot guarantee. This ends the part of the website that our pointy-headed lawyers made us put in. On Jul 17, 2012, at 7:27 AM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: On 7/15/2012 2:02 AM, Adam Thorp wrote: > I machined chainplates out of C954 bronze purchased from onlinemetals.com and they have started rusting within the first year. :( I'm curious about "rusting." Somebody else mentioned some iron content in that alloy. Do you mean rusting like an old car in a Michigan winter, or just slight staining? Seems to me that we're always making tradeoffs, and some staining might be a worthwhile trade for freedom from crevice corrosion. Chris Campbell >

I will take pictures of the chainplates the next time I am out on the boat. The rust is on the surfaces that are exposed on deck- no rust down below in the cabin. The rust forms striations that make is look like a carbon bar was folded into the material when it was made. I know that we are talking about a cal 36 forstay chainplate in this case, but does anyone have advice on a remedy. I was thinking about lightly sanding the rust off and then covering the surface with a varnish or something similar. One other possible culprit.... now that I think about it... I used stainless screws to fasten the chainplate covers (didn't have bronze at the time, and planned on switching them out later), and I believe the pins from the stays are also stainless. Could this be galvanic corrosion? On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Timm <ti… [at] danishmarineco.com> wrote: > ** > > > <http://www.onlinemetals.com/bronzeguide.cfm?print_this_page=1> > > > *The OnlineMetals Guide to Bronze* > > The term Bronze is applied to alloys of metal that are copper-based where > tin is the main additive. This is not a hard and fast rule, however - some > bronzes have phosphorus, manganese, aluminum or silicon as the main > alloying ingredient. > > The primary traits of Bronze alloys are that of toughness, strength, > corrosion resistance, electrical conductivity, and thermal conductivity. > Depending on the alloy, there is a bronze for just about every application. > > OnlineMetals.com currently stocks four types of bronze in various shapes > and sizes:C932 / SAE 660 - Bearing Bronze<http://www.onlinemetals.com/alloycat.cfm?alloy=932>(available > in HollowBar, Round)C954 - Aluminum Bronze<http://www.onlinemetals.com/alloycat.cfm?alloy=954>(available > in HollowBar, Rectangle, Round, Square)C655 - Silicon Bronze<http://www.onlinemetals.com/alloycat.cfm?alloy=655>(available > in Round)C863 - Manganese Bronze<http://www.onlinemetals.com/alloycat.cfm?alloy=863>(available > in HollowBar, Round) > > *Bearing Bronze* > As the name implies, this is the most commonly used bronze in bushing and > bearing applications. It is comparably easy to machine, and provides long > life in applications where wear is a consideration. > > Bearing Bronze (C932), a/k/a SAE 660Minimum PropertiesUltimate Tensile > Strength, psi35,000Yield Strength, psi20,000Elongation in 2"10%Brinell > Hardness65ChemistryCopper (Cu)81.0 - 85.0%Tin (Sn)6.3 - 7.5%Lead6.0 - 8.0% > Zinc2.0 - 4.0% > > *Aluminum Bronze* > Aluminum bronzes are most valued for their higher strength and corrosion > resistance as compared to other bronze alloys. These alloys are > tarnish-resistant and show low rates of corrosion in atmospheric > conditions, low oxidation rates at high temperatures, and low reactivity > with sulfurous compounds and other exhaust products of combustion. They are > also resistant to corrosion in sea water. Finally, they prevent > colonization by marine organisms including algae, barnacles, and mussels. > > Aluminum bronzes are most commonly used in applications where their > resistance to corrosion makes them preferable to other engineering > materials. > Aluminum Bronze, C954Minimum PropertiesUltimate Tensile Strength, psi > 85,000Yield Strength, psi32,000Elongation in 2"12%Brinell Hardness170 > ChemistryCopper (Cu)83.0% minIron (Fe)3.0 - 5.0%Aluminum (Al)10.0 - 11.5% > > *Silicon Bronze* > Silicon Bronze is a high-strength, highly corrosion resistant material > with nonmagnetic properties. It is generally as strong as steel. Because of > its composition, it is more difficult to machine. However, it is excellent > for use in general marine applications, as well as pumps and boilers.Silicon > Bronze, C655Minimum PropertiesUltimate Tensile Strength, psi85,000Yield > Strength, psi55,000Elongation in 2"20%Rockwell HardnessB90ChemistryCopper > (Cu)97.0% minIron (Fe)0.8% maxManganese (Mn)1.5% maxNickel (Ni)0.6% maxLead > (Pb)0.5% maxSilicon (Si)2.8 - 3.8%Zinc (Zn)1.5% max > > *Manganese Bronze* > Manganese Bronze is a high-strength bronze alloy primarily used in > heavy-duty applications.Manganese Bronze (C863)Minimum PropertiesUltimate > Tensile Strength, psi119,000Yield Strength, psi66,700Hardness, Brinell225Elongation > at break18%Machinability8%ChemistryCopper (Cu)60.0 - 68.0%Aluminum (Al)3 > - 7.5%Iron (Fe)2.0 - 4.0%Manganese (Mn)2.50 - 5.0%Zinc (Zn)25.0% > > At OnlineMetals, we all failed shop class. Multiple times. As a matter of > fact, our employment applications specifically ask to see people's grades > for their high school shop classes. If they're too high, they go into the > rejected pile. We're also not engineers, and cannot make any specific > recommendations about the suitability of a given alloy, temper, or shape > for your project or application. > > All technical data is for comparison purposes only and is NOT FOR DESIGN. > It has been compiled from sources we believe to be accurate but cannot > guarantee. This ends the part of the website that our pointy-headed lawyers > made us put in. > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 17, 2012, at 7:27 AM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > > On 7/15/2012 2:02 AM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > I machined chainplates out of C954 bronze purchased from onlinemetals.comand they have started rusting within the first year. :( > > > I'm curious about "rusting." Somebody else mentioned some iron content in > that alloy. Do you mean rusting like an old car in a Michigan winter, or > just slight staining? Seems to me that we're always making tradeoffs, and > some staining might be a worthwhile trade for freedom from crevice > corrosion. > > Chris Campbell > > > > >

Good news and bad news. There was already a front inspection port; the surveyor mistakenly thought it was glassed in. Once I got in there it was clearly just screwed closed and then painted over. I opened it up and it looks like the bolts and nuts on the inside look to be in decent shape. The fiberglass around them is clean and shows no sign of stress. Which is good as it implies the chainplate has not shifted. However there is still a big gap between it and the very tip of the bow, so maybe it was a bit of sloppy assembly back at Jensen (in fairness this is hull #4 so I'm guessing they were still were figuring stuff out). The sucky thing is that the one bolt that is loose (front bolt an top of the chainplate) is buried in the fiberglass deep in the joint between the hull and plate, and the nut is apparently inaccessible. There's barely enough room to get a finger in there much less actually excavate access to the bolt. I'm guessing that's the one nut that never got replaced and rotted away (the bolt is bronze). I really should have taken some pictures but got so busy that I forgot. As an aside, it looks like none of these chainplates have backing plates. Is that normal? On the other hand, one advantage of having an early build: we don't have a steel beam at all (its solid wood). --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy21@...> wrote: > > The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is > similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. > > Mike Kennedy > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <ygroup@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. > > Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm > > guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > > > > One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead > > chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see > > (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty > > good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > > > > The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, > > but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between > > the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the > > bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows > > no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) > > that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes > > redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop > > the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass > > itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of > > huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on > > two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures > > of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list > > later. > > > > The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually > > glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of > > backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any > > pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My > > understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point > > in the past. > > > > Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! > > Lucas. > > > > > > >

I read a bunch of the chainplates threads here to edumacate myself about chainplate options before going ahead with the purchase, but I'm not totally clear on how people actually manufactured the new ones. Obviously you can order bar stock but how do you ensure that each matches (exactly) the dimensions of the original ones? Did you hand someone the original plates and new chainplate blanks and hope for the best or did you try to measure while still installed? Do you reuse the same bolt holes, or just fill everything and drill new ones? Were the new ones close enough to leave the rig alone or did you have to retension? Thanks! Lucas. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Adam Thorp <thorpydo@...> wrote: > > I machined chainplates out of C954 bronze purchased from onlinemetals.com and they have started rusting within the first year. :( > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 14, 2012, at 4:33 PM, Timm <timm@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > *´¨) > > ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) > > (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) > > <cid:image005.png@...> > > Timm Lessley > > > > From: Stan Honey [mailto:stanhoney@...] > > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM > > To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' > > Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' > > Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant > > > > Hi Fin, > > > > What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! > > > > Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. > > > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. > > > > Metal yield strength kpsi > > > > C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 > > SS plate 304 31 > > > > The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. > > > > I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. > > > > We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. > > > > While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. > > > > We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. > > > > Happy Holidays, > > Stan and Sally > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- > > Stan Honey > > US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 > > > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:FinBeven@...] > > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 > > To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney > > Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase > > Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant > > > > Stan and Sally ... > > > > Where in the world are you ?? > > > > I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. > > > > When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. > > > > If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: > > > > - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? > > > > - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. > > > > As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! > > > > Fin. > > > > > > Subject: "Progress" on Radiant > > > > <image.png> > > > > <image.png> > > Photo E-mail > > Play slideshow | Download images > > Photos of the tear-out. > > <image.png> > > > > <image.png> > > > > <image.png> > > > > <image.png> > > > > <image.png> > > > > > > This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. > > To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy21@...> wrote: > > > > The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. > > > > > > Mike Kennedy > > > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <ygroup@...> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > > > > One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > > > > The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. > > > > The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. > > > > Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! > > Lucas. > > > > >

The bolt pattern on my chainplates was irregularly spaced, close enough but not. I was machining new chainplates and so decided to space all the holes exactly even instead of replicating the irregular spacing. I drilled the holes out to a larger size and filled the oversized hole with thickened epoxy. I then used the new machined chainplates as a template for locating the holes in the epoxy bushings. Three birds with one stone- I corrected the spacing making them easier to replace in the future, I increased the strength of material that the chainplates bear against, and I sealed the joint- if the chainplates leak, they wont let was into the plywood core. This was on the shrouds of my cal 28, not your 36's forestay so the situation might be different. On Jul 17, 2012, at 5:59 PM, "stiltickin" <yg… [at] xsiv.org> wrote: > I read a bunch of the chainplates threads here to edumacate myself about chainplate options before going ahead with the purchase, but I'm not totally clear on how people actually manufactured the new ones. Obviously you can order bar stock but how do you ensure that each matches (exactly) the dimensions of the original ones? Did you hand someone the original plates and new chainplate blanks and hope for the best or did you try to measure while still installed? > > Do you reuse the same bolt holes, or just fill everything and drill new ones? Were the new ones close enough to leave the rig alone or did you have to retension? Thanks! > > Lucas. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Adam Thorp <thorpydo@...> wrote: > > > > I machined chainplates out of C954 bronze purchased from onlinemetals.com and they have started rusting within the first year. :( > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 14, 2012, at 4:33 PM, Timm <timm@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *´¨) > > > ¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·**¨) > > > (¸.·´ (¸.·' ( ......….-_/) > > > <cid:image005.png@...> > > > Timm Lessley > > > > > > From: Stan Honey [mailto:stanhoney@...] > > > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:23 PM > > > To: 'Fin Beven'; 'Cal40_SallyHoney' > > > Cc: '1-Charlie_work'; '1-CharlieBeven08'; 'Cal40_CharlieHusar'; 'Cal40_DaveDenning'; 'Cal40_DaveTingler'; 'Cal40_EdShea'; 'Cal40_GaryCrawford'; 'Cal40_Holly_Scott'; 'Cal40_JamesEddy'; 'Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing'; 'Cal40_JimEddy'; 'Cal40_JimOberg'; 'Cal40_JoeNelson'; 'Cal40_LSellinger'; 'Cal40_MichaelIrish'; 'Cal40_MikeKennedy'; 'Cal40_PennyBenz'; 'Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1'; 'Cal40_PeterRebovich_2'; 'Cal40_PeterSchmidt'; 'Cal40_RichardDozier_06'; 'Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel'; 'Cal40_SteveCalhoun'; 'Cal40_TadDuPont'; 'Cal40_SteveWaterloo'; Lessley, Timm/PDX; 'Cal40_TimPalmer'; 'Cal40_WayneChase' > > > Subject: RE: "Progress" on Radiant > > > > > > Hi Fin, > > > > > > What a treat to have an excuse to think about Cal 40’s on Christmas day! > > > > > > Sally and I are at home part of the time these days. I navigated a TransAtlantic on VirginMoney for Richard Branson, then we were in Valencia for the CNEV regatta. We hope to get Illusion in the water in January. We’re replacing the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, engine mounts, and then we should be ready. > > > > > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. > > > > > > Metal yield strength kpsi > > > > > > C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 > > > SS plate 304 31 > > > > > > The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. > > > > > > I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. > > > > > > We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. > > > > > > While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. > > > > > > We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. > > > > > > Happy Holidays, > > > Stan and Sally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- > > > Stan Honey > > > US mobile: +1 650 799 3428 > > > > > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:FinBeven@...] > > > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 07:30 > > > To: Cal40_SallyHoney; Cal40_StanHoney > > > Cc: 1-Charlie_work; 1-CharlieBeven08; Cal40_CharlieHusar; Cal40_DaveDenning; Cal40_DaveTingler; Cal40_EdShea; Cal40_GaryCrawford; Cal40_Holly_Scott; Cal40_JamesEddy; Cal40_JimBrock-PageKing; Cal40_JimEddy; Cal40_JimOberg; Cal40_JoeNelson; Cal40_LSellinger; Cal40_MichaelIrish; Cal40_MikeKennedy; Cal40_PennyBenz; Cal40_PeteRebrovich_1; Cal40_PeterRebovich_2; Cal40_PeterSchmidt; Cal40_RichardDozier_06; Cal40_Rodney07Pimentel; Cal40_SteveCalhoun; Cal40_TadDuPont; Cal40_SteveWaterloo; Cal40_TimmLessley; Cal40_TimPalmer; Cal40_WayneChase > > > Subject: Fw: "Progress" on Radiant > > > > > > Stan and Sally ... > > > > > > Where in the world are you ?? > > > > > > I've undertaken a major re-finishing of Radiant's interior. All plywood surfaces will be veneered with white maple, and all trim will be replaced with white maple. I'm raising the counter in the head by about 3" (and installing a somewhat smaller sink closer to centerline) to eliminate that annoying issue of the sink edge bailing water. The main cabin will be re-built much like yours on Illusion ... one bunk on each side, with storage out-board. The stove side of the galley will also be rebuilt, with the stove moved aft, and I think I've figured out a way to have two (smaller) sinks, and also move them closer to centerline. While I'm at it, I'm going to add a 4 gallon water heater. > > > > > > When Charlie (my son) saw the pictures he asked me about the chainplates, and if we want to replace them with stainless. He is managing a boat yard in Marina del Rey, and can do this rather easily. If we left them uncovered, they might look pretty good if polished. I removed the tie-rod in the head, and am having it polished. > > > > > > If I remember correctly, you replaced your chainplates on Illusion, so I have two quick questions: > > > > > > - Did you find any fatigue or other stress in the metal that caused you to make the change ? > > > > > > - Did you have any significant problem extracting the plates ? I have two small hydraulic jacks in my garage, and think these might help if set up one on either side of the chainplate, spanned by a 2x4, and lashed to a shackle connected to the chainplate. > > > > > > As always, thanks. Hope all is well with you and Sally, and Merry Christmas ! > > > > > > Fin. > > > > > > > > > Subject: "Progress" on Radiant > > > > > > <image.png> > > > > > > <image.png> > > > Photo E-mail > > > Play slideshow | Download images > > > Photos of the tear-out. > > > <image.png> > > > > > > <image.png> > > > > > > <image.png> > > > > > > <image.png> > > > > > > <image.png> > > > > > > > > > This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. > > > To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy21@...> wrote: > > > > > > The Cal 40 also has a chain locker in the bow and I would think the 36 is similar. I would get in there to see what the chain plate bolts look like. > > > > > > > > > Mike Kennedy > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM, stiltickin <ygroup@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > My wife and I are the happy new owners of "Holiday", a Cal 36 in SF bay. Mike, the previous owner, was an active member of this forum so I'm guessing some of you are familiar with this boat. > > > > > > One of the major projects we are taking on is replacing the bulkhead chainplates, all of which show significant corrosion from what we can see (they are painted). The backstay chainplate is external and looks pretty good, so we'll probably leave that alone. > > > > > > The forestay chainplate/shoe is (I'm guessing) the original bronze one, but we have we have concerns about it. There is a substantial gap between the teak caprail/plate its mounted to and the hull at the very tip of the bow, and a small dent/chip in the forestay itself (which fortunately shows no cracks). The concern is that either something happened (i.e. collision) that pushed it up, or it was rebedded at some point and the holes redrilled, which caused it all to shift up. One of the bronze bolts atop the chainplate has also been pushed out and is not flush. The fiberglass itself doesn't seem stressed so it gives us hope it wasn't some sort of huge impact, but still the gap should not be that big (and isn't present on two other cal 36's I checked out recently). I really should have pictures of this but I don't have any handy... I can post something to the list later. > > > > > > The wrinkle in all this is that the interior part of the bow is actually glassed in so we can't see what it looks on the inside, and what sort of backing plate there might be and its condition. Does anyone have any pictures of the bow on an early Cal 36 inside the forepeak? My understanding is that was originally open but then glassed in at some point in the past. > > > > > > Several other projects but this is the biggest one ATM. :) Thanks! > > > Lucas. > > > > > > > > > >

On 7/17/2012 12:04 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > > I will take pictures of the chainplates the next time I am out on the > boat. > > The rust is on the surfaces that are exposed on deck- no rust down > below in the cabin. The rust forms striations that make is look like a > carbon bar was folded into the material when it was made. > > I know that we are talking about a cal 36 forstay chainplate in this > case, but does anyone have advice on a remedy. I was thinking about > lightly sanding the rust off and then covering the surface with a > varnish or something similar. My recall is that when you weld stainless, you can end up with some rustable steel in the weld. The solution is "passivation." That's something that came up on this list a long time ago. Basically, it's treating the stainless with an acid like Naval Jelly. I had a horseshoe life ring bracket modified by welding to hold my old round life ring. Afterward, I treated the welded areas with Naval Jelly. No rust. Maybe you could try the Naval Jelly approach on your bronze? Can't hurt, might work. Chris Campbell