NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS

They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegea\ n-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html <http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aege\ an-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html> http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html <http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html> Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay

Every time I read the reports of this tragedy, I can't help but wonder if the crew set the island as a GPS waypoint then were either incapacitated or otherwise distracted (fog, another emergency, etc).... I wonder if anyone knows if the boat was equipped with an autohelm? From: DouglasJ <db… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:26 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay

As far as the credibility of eye witnesses is concerned, note the April 30 story linked in the 10News link which said that the President of US Sailing said that a woman on another boat reported seeing a cargo ship hit the Aegean. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DouglasJ Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:26 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sa ilboat-Crash-167921875.html http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay

They were on auto pilot looking at their Spot track info. in earlier posts. I've been thinking similar thoughts. They set a course to the island, and for some reason didn't adjust course once they got there. Or they set a course to pass close to the island, and the GPS was off (as they are sometimes) enough to lead them into the island. Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Robert Libbert <rl… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Every time I read the reports of this tragedy, I can't help but wonder if > the crew set the island as a GPS waypoint then were either incapacitated or > otherwise distracted (fog, another emergency, etc).... I wonder if anyone > knows if the boat was equipped with an autohelm? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* DouglasJ <db… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:26 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS > > > They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. > > > http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html > > http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html > > > > Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay > > > >

I've got my own pet theory about what may have happened. I've motored late at night, in the wee hours of the morning, navigating in the dark by the moon and stars, coming back up from the MdR to San Diego race and gotten painfully sleepy to the point of momentarily falling asleep at the helm. My other theory is that whomever was on watch may have been somewhat overcome by diesel fumes if they had a following breeze nearly equal to their boat speed, the fumes got sucked back into the cockpit, and they may have absorbed enuff CO to make them conk out..it doesn't take very much. The boat was probably on autopilot, as it is legal to use them in cruiser class, along with having a motoring allowance. Jerry From: Doug Johnson <db… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS They were on auto pilot looking at their Spot track info. in earlier posts. I've been thinking similar thoughts. They set a course to the island, and for some reason didn't adjust course once they got there. Or they set a course to pass close to the island, and the GPS was off (as they are sometimes) enough to lead them into the island. Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Robert Libbert <rl… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >Every time I read the reports of this tragedy, I can't help but wonder if the crew set the island as a GPS waypoint then were either incapacitated or otherwise distracted (fog, another emergency, etc).... I wonder if anyone knows if the boat was equipped with an autohelm? > > > > >________________________________ > From: DouglasJ <db… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:26 PM >Subject: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS > > > > >They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. > > >http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html > > >http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html > > > > > > >Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay > >

My dad used to do that race. He said the big strategic decision was do you go inside or outside that island. The winners always made that guess correctly. My guess is that they set their auto pilot to the island so that they could decide which side later and the auto pilot just took them into it. We know that they were in a cursing class and had their engine on for a number of hours before the crash. Very sad. Allen On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM, DouglasJ <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. > > > http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html > > http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html > > > > Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay > > >

My guess: simple bad luck (mixed with poor seamanship). They entered the Ensenada Race Finish way-point into their GPS from their location from wherever they happened to be at the time. It yielded a certain course. They set their auto-pilot to that course. They stopped paying attention, rested, had cocktails, slept, whatever. It was just bad luck that the North Coronado Island just happened to be dead-center (if you'll excuse the expression) on the course they picked. They were under power, so had little concern about whether they were "inside the Coronados" or "outside the Coronados". They just picked the shortest course. Fin Beven Radiant Cal-40 #24 San Pedro, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Edwards<mailto:al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS My dad used to do that race. He said the big strategic decision was do you go inside or outside that island. The winners always made that guess correctly. My guess is that they set their auto pilot to the island so that they could decide which side later and the auto pilot just took them into it. We know that they were in a cursing class and had their engine on for a number of hours before the crash. Very sad. Allen On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM, DouglasJ <db… [at] gmail.com<mailto:db… [at] gmail.com>> wrote: They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html<http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html> http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html<http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html> Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay

I concur with your guess Fin. No one checked the paper chart where this course would take them or an electric plotter either. In the 1970's loran would become useless at dawn and dusk because of radio wave interference. Coming up the California a post dawn fix yielded a position in the parking lot of Hearst Castle: needless to say we were 2.5 miles to the west at the time but I never got to the deck so fast. Reliance on Hi Tec without conformation or reasonable caution will set the stage for such an incident. My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 From: Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS My guess: simple bad luck (mixed with poor seamanship). They entered the Ensenada Race Finish way-point into their GPS from their location from wherever they happened to be at the time. It yielded a certain course. They set their auto-pilot to that course. They stopped paying attention, rested, had cocktails, slept, whatever. It was just bad luck that the North Coronado Island just happened to be dead-center (if you'll excuse the expression) on the course they picked. They were under power, so had little concern about whether they were "inside the Coronados" or "outside the Coronados". They just picked the shortest course. Fin Beven Radiant Cal-40 #24 San Pedro, CA >From: Allen Edwards >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:10 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS > >My dad used to do that race. He said the big strategic decision was do you go inside or outside that island. The winners always made that guess correctly. My guess is that they set their auto pilot to the island so that they could decide which side later and the auto pilot just took them into it. We know that they were in a cursing class and had their engine on for a number of hours before the crash. Very sad. > > >Allen > > >On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM, DouglasJ <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > >>They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. >> >> >>http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html >> >> >>http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay >

This is a good theory. Has anyone compared their published track positions with a charted heading to Ensenada to see if this is plausible vs. just 'blind' conjecture? Maybe this is why my CGAux instructor stressed the importance of charting our course no matter how we were doing our navigation; his example was the 1957 Collision of two passenger liners who were traveling in fog off the New England coast. One ship had the other on radar, the bridge deck officers were watching, changing course to avoid the other, but no one was maintaining a plot. Let me remember, was that the Andrea Doria and the Stockholm? It was quite a shocker when it happened. In any case, if they had been using a chart they should have seen the island. It looks like the boat had a GPS chart-plotter in the cockpit from the pre-race photo, however. So maybe the helmsman nodded off too, or the autopilot maintained a course but the boat drifted off its true heading? (boat heading vs. true heading or course made good). The time I won the cruising class in the Sta. Barbara to King Harbor race I didn't know how to work my GPS, and it was my first night sail, but I did know how to read the lat. and long. on the GPS, had a chart, and used it to set a compass heading, and we had no trouble finding King Harbor entrance. Come to think of it, after I did know how to work my GPS I had more trouble finding Marina del Rey at night racing in from Channel Islands, and trying to guess where it was by watching the shore lights, in light shifty winds/ zero wind conditions. I'd probably have been better off, or helped greatly with a fix and a compass heading to pin point MdR. Jerry From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS I concur with your guess Fin. No one checked the paper chart where this course would take them or an electric plotter either. In the 1970's loran would become useless at dawn and dusk because of radio wave interference. Coming up the California a post dawn fix yielded a position in the parking lot of Hearst Castle: needless to say we were 2.5 miles to the west at the time but I never got to the deck so fast. Reliance on Hi Tec without conformation or reasonable caution will set the stage for such an incident. My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 From: Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS My guess: simple bad luck (mixed with poor seamanship). They entered the Ensenada Race Finish way-point into their GPS from their location from wherever they happened to be at the time. It yielded a certain course. They set their auto-pilot to that course. They stopped paying attention, rested, had cocktails, slept, whatever. It was just bad luck that the North Coronado Island just happened to be dead-center (if you'll excuse the expression) on the course they picked. They were under power, so had little concern about whether they were "inside the Coronados" or "outside the Coronados". They just picked the shortest course. Fin Beven Radiant Cal-40 #24 San Pedro, CA >From: Allen Edwards >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:10 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS > >My dad used to do that race. He said the big strategic decision was do you go inside or outside that island. The winners always made that guess correctly. My guess is that they set their auto pilot to the island so that they could decide which side later and the auto pilot just took them into it. We know that they were in a cursing class and had their engine on for a number of hours before the crash. Very sad. > > >Allen > > >On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM, DouglasJ <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > >> >>They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. >> >> >>http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html >> >> >>http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay >

Hello all Hoping for some advise. Have a 1986 Yanmar 3HM35F with a Kanzaki-Carl Hurth KBW10E trans. Manual indicates Dexron fluid but was wondering is there a difference with new Dexron VI.... Is the VI a new and improved ATF that will be better? Thanks

The little markers are the course Agena took per their SPOT tracker. The black line is the extension of the course they were on under power (constant course and speed). Allen [image: Inline image 1] On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > ** > > > This is a good theory. Has anyone compared their published track positions > with a charted heading to Ensenada to see if this is plausible vs. just > 'blind' conjecture? > Maybe this is why my CGAux instructor stressed the importance of charting > our course no matter how we were doing our navigation; his example was the > 1957 Collision of two passenger liners who were traveling in fog off the > New England coast. One ship had the other on radar, the bridge deck > officers were watching, changing course to avoid the other, but no one was > maintaining a plot. Let me remember, was that the Andrea Doria and the > Stockholm? It was quite a shocker when it happened. > > In any case, if they had been using a chart they should have seen the > island. It looks like the boat had a GPS chart-plotter in the cockpit from > the pre-race photo, however. So maybe the helmsman nodded off too, or the > autopilot maintained a course but the boat drifted off its true heading? > (boat heading vs. true heading or course made good). > > The time I won the cruising class in the Sta. Barbara to King Harbor race > I didn't know how to work my GPS, and it was my first night sail, but I did > know how to read the lat. and long. on the GPS, had a chart, and used it to > set a compass heading, and we had no trouble finding King Harbor entrance. > Come to think of it, after I did know how to work my GPS I had more trouble > finding Marina del Rey at night racing in from Channel Islands, and trying > to guess where it was by watching the shore lights, in light shifty winds/ > zero wind conditions. I'd probably have been better off, or helped greatly > with a fix and a compass heading to pin point MdR. > Jerry > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:34 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS > > > I concur with your guess Fin. No one checked the paper chart where > this course would take them or an electric plotter either. In the 1970's > loran would become useless at dawn and dusk because of radio wave > interference. Coming up the California a post dawn fix yielded a position > in the parking lot of Hearst Castle: needless to say we were 2.5 miles to > the west at the time but I never got to the deck so fast. Reliance on Hi > Tec without conformation or reasonable caution will set the stage for such > an incident. > My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 > > *From:* Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:03 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS > > > > My guess: simple bad luck (mixed with poor seamanship). > > They entered the Ensenada Race Finish way-point into their GPS from their > location from wherever they happened to be at the time. > > It yielded a certain course. > > They set their auto-pilot to that course. > > They stopped paying attention, rested, had cocktails, slept, whatever. > > It was just bad luck that the North Coronado Island just happened to > be dead-center (if you'll excuse the expression) on the course they > picked. > > They were under power, so had little concern about whether they were > "inside the Coronados" or "outside the Coronados". > > They just picked the shortest course. > > Fin Beven > Radiant > Cal-40 #24 > San Pedro, CA > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:10 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] NEW SOCAL RACE CRASH NEWS > > My dad used to do that race. He said the big strategic decision was do > you go inside or outside that island. The winners always made that guess > correctly. My guess is that they set their auto pilot to the island so > that they could decide which side later and the auto pilot just took them > into it. We know that they were in a cursing class and had their engine on > for a number of hours before the crash. Very sad. > > Allen > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM, DouglasJ <db… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > ** > > They found the engine, keel, and more. Here are a couple of articles. > > > http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html > > http://www.10news.com/news/31396287/detail.html > > > > Doug, Cal 29, San Francisco Bay > > > > > > > > > >