regulation of boats

Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: > http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy Chris Campbell

These are not houseboats but floating houses ie: they can't be driven. They are just trying to figure out tax issues ie: who gets the money. At least that is what I heard on the news. Paul From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:47 am Subject: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: > http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy Chris Campbell

Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you may know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; especially in areas in view of the 1%. From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:47 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: > http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy Chris Campbell

On 10/3/2012 9:52 AM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > > These are not houseboats but floating houses ie: they can't be driven. Of course, that's the whole issue: what's a boat? The law is all about where to draw a line and what's inside or outside it. And if you draw the line here for this purpose, does it apply for that purpose too? Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. once said "hard cases make bad law." He meant that a just outcome in a very unusual case may not translate well as a general rule for other cases. But often they get applied that way. Chris Campbell

When I lived on my boat in Eagle Harbor (Bainbridge Island, WA) in the mid 90's there was a small community of "harbor rats" living afloat and off the grid. Local government was moving in on them when I moved back to SoCal. Wonder what happened to them. There are a few barges in Santa Barbara harbor that the city would like to be rid of them, but a couple of new ones have been built in the last few years. Harbor Dept. enforces navigability - have to take them out of the harbor and around the buoy under their own power (usually a small outboard that is barely accessible. Theses structures are usually quite high rectangular blocks and block the sun from their neighbors boats. I wouldn't like one next to me. . On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:02 AM, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you may know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; especially in areas in view of the 1%. > > From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:47 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats > > Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and > it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: > > http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy > > Chris Campbell > > > > > >

On 10/3/2012 10:02 AM, Michael D wrote: > > > Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you > may know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; > especially in areas in view of the 1%. > I ponder this a lot because my Cal 20 floats in an unofficial mooring field (i.e., I and my boat are squatters on state land). We get away with it because it's harmless and in an otherwise unused portion of our Bay, and because the local yacht club's official moorings are very limited so members have expanded into the unofficial area. I bought my mooring from a yacht club member. Basically, I was paying for ground tackle and "squatter's rights" to that location. It's also tolerated because the local marinas tend to be filled, and filled with a lot of weekender folks who can outbid the local people like me. But occasionally the issue comes to the attention of officials. When there's a big storm and boats go adrift and ashore, it causes some murmuring for a while. Mooring space is limited--at some point, there could be too many boats. At that point it becomes a legitimate subject for regulation. The question is how to regulate. The usual tendency is to favor financial solutions--money. Then you end up with all those Benneteaus-as-houseboats instead of sailors like us old Cal folks. I was at my other boat last weekend, getting ready to sail. An older couple (probably my age, actually) stopped and walked out on the dock to ask about the boat. He was from the Netherlands likely, judging by the accent, and said he had worked on commercial freighters that brought boats like mine over as deck cargo. They have a 27' Cape Dory that they actually sail. They asked, "how many of the boats in this marina get sailed?" Where they are, in SE Michigan, not so many are used for sailing. My own view is that when we allocate resources solely on the basis of money--the pure market solution--we err. Maybe I'd feel otherwise if I were a multi-millionaire. Problem is, most of them aren't active sailors. A few are. The rest are dilettantes; they call up the hired captain and say "we're coming down to the boat this evening; have it ready." The people who go out sailing a lot are mostly people like the Cal owners: people who love sailing, maintain their own boats, and work within a budget. It seems to me that there should be some weighting of allocation criteria to protect people like us. Chris Campbell > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >

It will be an interesting line to see where it gets drawn. Navigability seems like a good test but what about a barge? Are they navigable? They get pulled by tugs and are clearly part of the landscape. They can't make them illegal. Maybe they have motors, I don't know. What about a dingy that is under tow? It is a difficult question for me but I would think allowing a city to regulate them as something other than boats would be a good thing. I would not want a three story floating house next to Papoose but I would not want to displace existing communities. But even if you wanted to draw a line that excluded a floating house, it would not be easy. Around here there are floating houses that I seriously doubt qualify as navigable. They are built to a city code but don't look sea worthy to me http://goo.gl/XYpZ1 Allen On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 7:19 AM, David Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: > ** > > > > When I lived on my boat in Eagle Harbor (Bainbridge Island, WA) in the mid > 90's there was a small community of "harbor rats" living afloat and off the > grid. Local government was moving in on them when I moved back to SoCal. > Wonder what happened to them. > > There are a few barges in Santa Barbara harbor that the city would like to > be rid of them, but a couple of new ones have been built in the last few > years. Harbor Dept. enforces navigability - have to take them out of the > harbor and around the buoy under their own power (usually a small outboard > that is barely accessible. Theses structures are usually quite high > rectangular blocks and block the sun from their neighbors boats. I > wouldn't like one next to me. > > . > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:02 AM, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you may > know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; especially > in areas in view of the 1%. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:47 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats > > > Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and > it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: > > > http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy > > Chris Campbell > > > > >