Re: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats

Intresting. Wonder what a casino floating on the rivers are considered? Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you may know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; especially in areas in view of the 1%. From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:47 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: > http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy Chris Campbell

I wonder if this will affect the design of cruise ships, which look like container ships with a Las Vegas style hotel in place of containers? What irks me is when my XO's very sea worthy Rawson 30 is evicted, while a house boat that looks like a two story shoe box on a barge is allowed to stay, purely on the whim of a public land grabbing, carpet bagging bureaucrat that wouldn't know a bow from a stern. Marinas should be for mooring vessels, not floating houses. They are unsightly and spoil the view and ambiance of being around real boats. It's bad enuff they illegally built monstrous condos on the moles instead of the open parkland and cabanas that had been promised the taxpayers in trade for using public funds to buy up played out industrial land by the sea side here. But what this city did doesn't sound fair either. He should have had the option of hauling it out and putting it on a lot somewhere. I dunno. Jerry --- On Wed, 10/3/12, Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 7:44 AM Intresting. Wonder what a casino floating on the rivers are considered? Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you may know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; especially in areas in view of the 1%. From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:47 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: > http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy Chris Campbell

What is the tax situation on those "house boats". Up here a marina tried to get smart and build floating homes basically with services provided at dockside. Bang the city hit everyone for outrages property taxes. It put an end to the building boom. Up here its pretty simple what is a boat as its all defined by the CCG regs. Now define what is a navigable water course and you have every property developer, environmentalist and eco warrior on different sides of the streams. So the rule is now simple. If you can float a canoe down a creek for 90 percent of the way without getting out to haul it over rocks or sand during the spring runoff and the time is defined, "its a navigable watercourse" which means developers need to deal with it accordingly increasing the costs of land development significantly and granting public access easements as well as a buffer zone that is retained by the "crown". So in essence if the creek is runnable with a canoe in the spring its a navigable water course. Regards /ch On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I wonder if this will affect the design of cruise ships, which look like > container ships with a Las Vegas style hotel in place of containers? > What irks me is when my XO's very sea worthy Rawson 30 is evicted, while > a house boat that looks like a two story shoe box on a barge is allowed to > stay, purely on the whim of a public land grabbing, carpet bagging > bureaucrat that wouldn't know a bow from a stern. > Marinas should be for mooring vessels, not floating houses. They are > unsightly and spoil the view and ambiance of being around real boats. It's > bad enuff they illegally built monstrous condos on the moles instead of the > open parkland and cabanas that had been promised the taxpayers in trade for > using public funds to buy up played out industrial land by the sea side > here. > But what this city did doesn't sound fair either. He should have had the > option of hauling it out and putting it on a lot somewhere. I dunno. > Jerry > > --- On *Wed, 10/3/12, Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com>* wrote: > > > From: Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 7:44 AM > > > > > Intresting. Wonder what a casino floating on the rivers are considered? > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G > > > Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you may > know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; especially > in areas in view of the 1%. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:47 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats > > > Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and > it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: > > > http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > -- /ch

Chris, I like that. I found a Wooden Boat mag at the VA with all kinds of sailboat designs that use flat bottoms, centerboards, and need only enuff water to wet your ankle to sail on. Our nineteenth century forebears were quite resourceful, doing alot with limited means. Jerry From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats What is the tax situation on those "house boats". Up here a marina tried to get smart and build floating homes basically with services provided at dockside. Bang the city hit everyone for outrages property taxes. It put an end to the building boom. Up here its pretty simple what is a boat as its all defined by the CCG regs. Now define what is a navigable water course and you have every property developer, environmentalist and eco warrior on different sides of the streams. So the rule is now simple. If you can float a canoe down a creek for 90 percent of the way without getting out to haul it over rocks or sand during the spring runoff and the time is defined, "its a navigable watercourse" which means developers need to deal with it accordingly increasing the costs of land development significantly and granting public access easements as well as a buffer zone that is retained by the "crown". So in essence if the creek is runnable with a canoe in the spring its a navigable water course. Regards /ch On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >I wonder if this will affect the design of cruise ships, which look like container ships with a Las Vegas style hotel in place of containers? > What irks me is when my XO's very sea worthy Rawson 30 is evicted, while a house boat that looks like a two story shoe box on a barge is allowed to stay, purely on the whim of a public land grabbing, carpet bagging bureaucrat that wouldn't know a bow from a stern. >Marinas should be for mooring vessels, not floating houses. They are unsightly and spoil the view and ambiance of being around real boats. It's bad enuff they illegally built monstrous condos on the moles instead of the open parkland and cabanas that had been promised the taxpayers in trade for using public funds to buy up played out industrial land by the sea side here. >But what this city did doesn't sound fair either. He should have had the option of hauling it out and putting it on a lot somewhere. I dunno. >Jerry > >--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>From: Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 7:44 AM >> >> >> >> >>Intresting. Wonder what a casino floating on the rivers are considered? >> >> >>Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G >> >> >>Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you may know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; especially in areas in view of the 1%. >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:47 AM >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats >> >> >> >>Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, and >>it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: >>> http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy >> >>Chris Campbell >> >> >> >> > > -- /ch

Yup shanty boats. Designed to go no where. But as the stratification of wealth continues in the States and to a degree here too alternative lifestyles in tems of domocile preferences may become less acceptable. Tolerance for what is different or unigue is on the decline and IMHO that is something we should strive to preserve or defend Ch Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >Chris, I like that. >I found a Wooden Boat mag at the VA with all kinds of sailboat designs >that use flat bottoms, centerboards, and need only enuff water to wet >your ankle to sail on. >Our nineteenth century forebears were quite resourceful, doing alot >with limited means. >Jerry > > > >________________________________ > From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats > > > >What is the tax situation on those "house boats". Up here a marina >tried to get smart and build floating homes basically with services >provided at dockside. Bang the city hit everyone for outrages property >taxes. It put an end to the building boom. Up here its pretty simple >what is a boat as its all defined by the CCG regs. > >Now define what is a navigable water course and you have every property >developer, environmentalist and eco warrior on different sides of the >streams. So the rule is now simple. If you can float a canoe down a >creek for 90 percent of the way without getting out to haul it over >rocks or sand during the spring runoff and the time is defined, "its a >navigable watercourse" which means developers need to deal with it >accordingly increasing the costs of land development significantly and >granting public access easements as well as a buffer zone that is >retained by the "crown". So in essence if the creek is runnable with a >canoe in the spring its a navigable water course. > >Regards > >/ch > > > >On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> >wrote: > > >> >> >>I wonder if this will affect the design of cruise ships, which look >like container ships with a Las Vegas style hotel in place of >containers? >> What irks me is when my XO's very sea worthy Rawson 30 is evicted, >while a house boat that looks like a two story shoe box on a barge is >allowed to stay, purely on the whim of a public land grabbing, carpet >bagging bureaucrat that wouldn't know a bow from a stern. >>Marinas should be for mooring vessels, not floating houses. They are >unsightly and spoil the view and ambiance of being around real boats. >It's bad enuff they illegally built monstrous condos on the moles >instead of the open parkland and cabanas that had been promised the >taxpayers in trade for using public funds to buy up played out >industrial land by the sea side here. >>But what this city did doesn't sound fair either. He should have had >the > option of hauling it out and putting it on a lot somewhere. I dunno. >>Jerry >> >>--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>>From: Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> >>>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 7:44 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Intresting. Wonder what a casino floating on the rivers are >considered? >>> >>> >>>Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G >>> >>> >>>Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>Rivera Beach is not far north of me. This case blows IMHO. As you >may know, FL municipalities are also trying to restrict anchoring; >especially in areas in view of the 1%. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> >>>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:47 AM >>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] regulation of boats >>> >>> >>> >>>Apparently there's a Florida dispute over regulation of houseboats, >and >>>it has ended up at the U.S. Supreme Court: >>>> >http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/3030483/supreme-court-weighs-regulation.html#storylink=cpy >>> >>>Chris Campbell >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >-- >/ch > > > > --

On 10/5/2012 7:34 AM, Chris H wrote: > > > Yup shanty boats. Designed to go no where. But as the stratification > of wealth continues in the States and to a degree here too alternative > lifestyles in tems of domocile preferences may become less acceptable. > Tolerance for what is different or unigue is on the decline and IMHO > that is something we should strive to preserve or defend I agree. The trend during my lifetime has been toward increasing concentration of wealth at the very top and the increasing impoverishment of everybody else. Luckily for sailors, the durability of fiberglass hulls and the trend toward oversized new sailboats means that the rest of us do have economical choices like our sweet-sailing Cals. The newest house I've ever lived in was built in 1920, so I've always known what we now regard as "traditional urban neighborhoods"--places built up house-by-house more or less randomly. I've never figured out these suburban tracts with all the houses mud-colored and restrictive covenants to keep them that way. Where I live now there are houses built from maybe 1890 up to 2010 within a three-block radius. Maybe this is why I've come to like my 1967 Cal with her 1967 gelcoat--olive sheer and boottop stripes, slightly olive-tinted topsides between them. She adds some variety to the mooring field. All the new boats are Clorox-bottle white. I think ol' /Martha C/ is a good-looking vessel. The same thing goes for personal characteristics. Variety makes life interesting. The real characters we meet are the ones that affect us the most. It's something we learn after the teen years. As teens, a period when we retreat from anything smacking of individuality and when we regard odd characters as people to avoid, or at least not to emulate. But gradually we learn about the value of individuality and eccentricity. John Voelker, one of Michigan's great lawyers and judges, said, "If eccentricity were a crime, then all of us were felons." 353 Mich at 579. He wrote that in a decision about a police raid on a nudist colony. The other justices were appalled--shocked!!!--at the notion that people might stroll around naked. Voelker figured that they weren't doing it within public view so it wasn't the public's business. Neil Simon said, "Never underestimate the value of eccentricity." The reason I'm a sailor now is that when I was a freshman in college I was sitting in an airport (anybody remember Willow Run outside Detroit?) between flights. I ran into an old high school teacher, one of those cheerfully eccentric guys who helped me understand that helped me understand that it's OK be to your own person. He was coming home from Annapolis, where he had been looking into getting a franchise from the Annapolis Sailing School. And would I like a summer job? Hell yes, and the job came with access to boats and to people who knew how to make them move. That was in 1966 and I have always been grateful to Bill Plumb. Chris Campbell