AC Starts

I happen to participate in a race where the start is a broad reach. It is the Master Mariners Regatta and some of the boats just can't point any higher than that so that is how they run it. However, I race it against other L-36s and we can point just fine. So I have studied what the best strategy would be for the start. My conclusion was to start downwind of everyone, head right for the pin and force everyone else off the line. Well, nobody does that and everyone gets a fair start because these are classic old wood boats and who wants to be that way. But in the America's Cup, they are not so worried about being nice so it just looks like whoever gets to windward takes the other boat high and basically off the line. At that point the other boat is forced to hit the leeward boat taking a penalty, or tack away and do a 360. Both of these cases happened in the match races yesterday. What a crazy format. Is this typical for Cats? Why the hell are they starting that way. The finish is the same way and has the potential for one boat to take another up into the crowd. Luckily the boats are usually not that close by the end although a month ago they were and one boat almost did go into the crowd. Does anyone else think this is nuts? The rules are just not set up for that kind of start imho. Allen

Of course it's nuts, but then, look at car racing, where the cars cartwheel thru the air at 150MPH and crash in flames. The audience seems to enjoy it! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:50 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] AC Starts I happen to participate in a race where the start is a broad reach. It is the Master Mariners Regatta and some of the boats just can't point any higher than that so that is how they run it. However, I race it against other L-36s and we can point just fine. So I have studied what the best strategy would be for the start. My conclusion was to start downwind of everyone, head right for the pin and force everyone else off the line. Well, nobody does that and everyone gets a fair start because these are classic old wood boats and who wants to be that way. But in the America's Cup, they are not so worried about being nice so it just looks like whoever gets to windward takes the other boat high and basically off the line. At that point the other boat is forced to hit the leeward boat taking a penalty, or tack away and do a 360. Both of these cases happened in the match races yesterday. What a crazy format. Is this typical for Cats? Why the hell are they starting that way. The finish is the same way and has the potential for one boat to take another up into the crowd. Luckily the boats are usually not that close by the end although a month ago they were and one boat almost did go into the crowd. Does anyone else think this is nuts? The rules are just not set up for that kind of start imho. Allen

I have been thinking more about what I observed this last week. First, the person to watch is clearly Spithill having won both the fleet race and the match race series. I saw these strategies. 1) Match race: Get to leeward and run your competitor into the committee boat. 2) Fleet race: Stay the hell out of the way, hang back and let everyone else run each other into the committee boat. Start where you find a safe place or start last if you don't. For my next race, I am going to adopt strategy 2. I am just not a strategy 1 kind of guy. :-) Allen On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Of course it's nuts, but then, look at car racing, where the cars > cartwheel thru the air at 150MPH and crash in flames. The audience seems to > enjoy it! > Jerry > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:50 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] AC Starts > > > I happen to participate in a race where the start is a broad reach. > It is the Master Mariners Regatta and some of the boats just can't > point any higher than that so that is how they run it. However, I > race it against other L-36s and we can point just fine. So I have > studied what the best strategy would be for the start. My conclusion > was to start downwind of everyone, head right for the pin and force > everyone else off the line. Well, nobody does that and everyone gets > a fair start because these are classic old wood boats and who wants to > be that way. > > But in the America's Cup, they are not so worried about being nice so > it just looks like whoever gets to windward takes the other boat high > and basically off the line. At that point the other boat is forced to > hit the leeward boat taking a penalty, or tack away and do a 360. > Both of these cases happened in the match races yesterday. > > What a crazy format. Is this typical for Cats? Why the hell are they > starting that way. > > The finish is the same way and has the potential for one boat to take > another up into the crowd. Luckily the boats are usually not that > close by the end although a month ago they were and one boat almost > did go into the crowd. > > Does anyone else think this is nuts? The rules are just not set up > for that kind of start imho. > > Allen > > > >

Allen I think a lot of a the aggressive strategy stuff comes from not paying the bills to fix the boat. I race almost strictly one design. A lot of the boats are trying to be aggressive and thus end up a little early. This makes them run down the line a ways. I will stall a bit and let the boats under me shoot past. I may be a few seconds late, but I am able to come up at the gun in clear air. This has the added advantage of pinning the the boats forward on their (usually starboard) tacks until I feel like tacking. Also supports the damage prevention program. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 7:38 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] AC Starts I have been thinking more about what I observed this last week. First, the person to watch is clearly Spithill having won both the fleet race and the match race series. I saw these strategies. 1) Match race: Get to leeward and run your competitor into the committee boat. 2) Fleet race: Stay the hell out of the way, hang back and let everyone else run each other into the committee boat. Start where you find a safe place or start last if you don't. For my next race, I am going to adopt strategy 2. I am just not a strategy 1 kind of guy. :-) Allen On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:so… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: Of course it's nuts, but then, look at car racing, where the cars cartwheel thru the air at 150MPH and crash in flames. The audience seems to enjoy it! Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com<mailto:al… [at] gmail.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:50 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] AC Starts I happen to participate in a race where the start is a broad reach. It is the Master Mariners Regatta and some of the boats just can't point any higher than that so that is how they run it. However, I race it against other L-36s and we can point just fine. So I have studied what the best strategy would be for the start. My conclusion was to start downwind of everyone, head right for the pin and force everyone else off the line. Well, nobody does that and everyone gets a fair start because these are classic old wood boats and who wants to be that way. But in the America's Cup, they are not so worried about being nice so it just looks like whoever gets to windward takes the other boat high and basically off the line. At that point the other boat is forced to hit the leeward boat taking a penalty, or tack away and do a 360. Both of these cases happened in the match races yesterday. What a crazy format. Is this typical for Cats? Why the hell are they starting that way. The finish is the same way and has the potential for one boat to take another up into the crowd. Luckily the boats are usually not that close by the end although a month ago they were and one boat almost did go into the crowd. Does anyone else think this is nuts? The rules are just not set up for that kind of start imho. Allen

Sounds like a good plan Charlie. On the normal line at 90 degrees to the wind starts I tend to value clear air a lot more than the "favored" end of the line. Getting in that mass of boats near the committee boat is no place to be. I like to be near the pin and go fast so I can tack and cross the fleet before they get to the mark. The Master Mariners, no the other hand, has the line at 0 degrees to the wind just like the AC starts. That is why I am familiar with the "correct" strategy. I just don't follow it. Better to have clear air and not run anyone into the committee boat imho. Allen On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > ** > > > Allen I think a lot of a the aggressive strategy stuff comes from not > paying the bills to fix the boat.**** > > ** ** > > I race almost strictly one design. A lot of the boats are trying to be > aggressive and thus end up a little early. This makes them run down the > line a ways. I will stall a bit and let the boats under me shoot past. I > may be a few seconds late, but I am able to come up at the gun in clear > air. This has the added advantage of pinning the the boats forward on > their (usually starboard) tacks until I feel like tacking. Also supports > the damage prevention program.**** > > ** ** > > Cheers**** > > Charlie**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Allen Edwards > *Sent:* Monday, October 08, 2012 7:38 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] AC Starts**** > > ** ** > > > > I have been thinking more about what I observed this last week. First, > the person to watch is clearly Spithill having won both the fleet race and > the match race series. I saw these strategies. **** > > 1) Match race: Get to leeward and run your competitor into the committee > boat.**** > > 2) Fleet race: Stay the hell out of the way, hang back and let everyone > else run each other into the committee boat. Start where you find a safe > place or start last if you don't.**** > > ** ** > > For my next race, I am going to adopt strategy 2. I am just not a > strategy 1 kind of guy. :-)**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote:**** > > **** > > Of course it's nuts, but then, look at car racing, where the cars > cartwheel thru the air at 150MPH and crash in flames. The audience seems to > enjoy it! > Jerry**** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:50 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] AC Starts**** > > ** ** > > **** > > I happen to participate in a race where the start is a broad reach. > It is the Master Mariners Regatta and some of the boats just can't > point any higher than that so that is how they run it. However, I > race it against other L-36s and we can point just fine. So I have > studied what the best strategy would be for the start. My conclusion > was to start downwind of everyone, head right for the pin and force > everyone else off the line. Well, nobody does that and everyone gets > a fair start because these are classic old wood boats and who wants to > be that way. > > But in the America's Cup, they are not so worried about being nice so > it just looks like whoever gets to windward takes the other boat high > and basically off the line. At that point the other boat is forced to > hit the leeward boat taking a penalty, or tack away and do a 360. > Both of these cases happened in the match races yesterday. > > What a crazy format. Is this typical for Cats? Why the hell are they > starting that way. > > The finish is the same way and has the potential for one boat to take > another up into the crowd. Luckily the boats are usually not that > close by the end although a month ago they were and one boat almost > did go into the crowd. > > Does anyone else think this is nuts? The rules are just not set up > for that kind of start imho. > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > **** > > >