electric sailboats

I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer!

Michael, That sounds cool. What electric engine did you install? Did you need to have a "V-Drive" - how did that work out? What battery do you use? How is the power and range? Brian From: Michael Wahlman <mw… [at] dspnet.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:59 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer!

Michael, I, for one, would be interested in all the details, including what you might do differently the next time. I have been considering it as an option if I were to need to repower, and it's always better to do the research ahead of time. David Dobbs CAL29 411 From: Michael Wahlman <mw… [at] dspnet.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 4:59 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer!

Hi Mike,, I think there is a person in the group that repowered their sailboat with electric motrs and reember reading the note. If I remember correctly, it was a Lady sailor in our in the Cal group. I even read in a boating magazine that power boaters are going to electric as well. If the range is decent,, I would explore the opportunity as well! If there was such a post from a group member, could there be an update on the repower of the boat? Thanks to all in advance! Jim Ives - Kool BeansRochester, NY To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: mw… [at] dspnet.net Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 09:59:47 +0000 Subject: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer!

Yes- it's been done many times and quite successfully, though there are some limits on how useful it can be. You should check out this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats A wealth of information and experience. Nick --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Michael Wahlman" <mwahlman@...> wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer! >

Nick, I've been a member of that group for awhile, and I agree its got a lot of information in general about electric boat conversion. Mike --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Yes- it's been done many times and quite successfully, though there are some limits on how useful it can be. You should check out this group: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats > > A wealth of information and experience. > > Nick > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Michael Wahlman" <mwahlman@> wrote: > > > > I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer! > > >

Brian, I'll send a long email as a general reply to my original post shortly. I'll answer the questions you've asked there. Mike --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Brian McNamara <solstice44107@...> wrote: > > Michael, > > That sounds cool. > What electric engine did you install? Did you need to have a "V-Drive" - how did that work out? What battery do you use? How is the power and range? > > Brian > > > ________________________________ > From: Michael Wahlman <mwahlman@...> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:59 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats > > >  > I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer! >

David, I'll send a long email as a general reply to my original post shortly. I'll answer the questions you've asked there. Mike --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, david dobbs <tmft567@...> wrote: > > Michael, > > I, for one, would be interested in all the details, including what you might do differently the next time. I have been considering it as an option if I were to need to repower, and it's always better to do the research ahead of time. > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > > ________________________________ > From: Michael Wahlman <mwahlman@...> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 4:59 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats > > >  > I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer! >

This reply is for those who wanted some more information on the conversion of my 1971 cal 33 from an atomic 4 to an electric engine. It will be long, have links, and be broken into a few sections. In short I did my conversion for approximately $5000 in parts, not including labor. First I'll write about the background of why I converted. I initially became interested in the prospect of purchasing a boat to live on while on my last assignment with the US Navy. At the time I was an activated reservist: Operations Specialist First Class / E6) while stationed in Monterey, CA. I was in the middle of a divorce, and didn't know how long I might be unemployed for, once my enlistment ended in September 2011 (divorced completed now, but I am still unemployed). I really liked the idea of having a relatively cheap rent, waterfront property, and a residence that could easily be moved to other job markets along the west coast. I purchased my 1971 Cal 33 in June 2011, and began living on it about a week later. Almost immediately, I became very concerned with the gas smells on the boat. I was afraid that I might either die from the fumes or from a potential explosion while sleeping. I had the boat yard look at it, and after repairing the fuel line from the deck fill to the gas tank, that crises seemed to be alleviated for a few months. However, my engine ceased up that winter, and when I had the engine inspected, I was told that one of the pistons was jammed and that it needed to be repaired from the bottom, so the engine would have to be removed from the boat and should probably be rebuilt. By then, I had been reading up on electric engines for awhile, and I didn't much like the idea of spending several grand fixing a 40 year old, obsolete engine. In February of this year, I bought an electric engine kit from thunderstruck motors at a cost of approximately $2000 ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-10.5kw.html ). That kit does not include batteries, charger, mount, gear reduction, engine shaft. shaft coupler, battery cables, or any gauges for engine/battery status information: (RMPs, temp, state of charge, charge remaining, amps pulled, etc). Overall, I really like the company, found the kit to be pretty fairly priced vs the competition. On a side note, after I completed my trip from Monterey CA to Redwood City CA at the end of Sept, I decided to drive up to their shop for a tour, as they are only about an hour north of San Francisco. Regarding this kit, I'd suggest you stay away from the default "TSM Fwd/Rev Slider Control Box" Throttle type option, I bought it and its really cheaply constructed. After I bought my kit, they began offering the Curtis ET-134 for an additional $63, which is their recommended throttle option. While thunderstruck does sell an approximately $600 mount/gear reduction, their solution seems flimsy and overpriced to me ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ts-gear-reduction.html ) Instead, my father purchased several parts off ebay and constructed a much stronger mount with a similar gear reduction system. He used this video for the design inspiration ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdEDZuvk7wE ). I'd have to look for the receipts to verify, but I think all of the mechanical parts ("industrial erector set" mounting hardware, timing belt, pulleys, engine shaft, shaft coupler, etc)) were procured for under $500 (not including labor). Another advantage of the mount we used over the thunderstruck model is that it provides a large area to mount the SEVCON Gen 4 engine controller, which also act as a heat sink. Should someone be interested in purchasing a mount like I have, I'm sure my father would be willing to build one for you at a reasonable cost. I procured 8x 12v 100ah AGM batteries from a friend that I went to college with, who is the marketing director for his uncle's battery company based in IL. They are set up as 2x 48v 100ah battery plants connected to the engine via an A/B/All switch. ( http://bigtimebattery.com/store/slaps12100.html ) Total cost for batteries including S/H (lots of weight!) was about $1500. I would suggest having at least 200ah total battery plant power, as a minimum, for anyone seriously considering a conversion. I initially only used a single 100ah plant, but added the second plant about a month later because I felt I was discharging the batteries more deeply then appropriate, just by entering/leaving the harbor before I could put up my sails, and had very limited reserve power should the wind die while out. If you can afford a larger capacity battery plant, by all means spend more money on batteries. Expect to pay maybe an additional $200 in battery cables. For the battery charger, I bought a 15amp 48v quick charger. (http://quickcharge.com/Select-a-charge%20ON%20BOARD.htm). I bought this model before I doubled my battery capacity, so I would instead suggest their 25amp 48v charger to anyone with a 200ah+ battery plant capacity. The 15 amp battery charger cost me about $350, whereas the 25 amp one costs around $470. its worth spending the extra $120 as those 10 additional amps will reduce the time it takes to recharge your batteries. When fully discharged, my 15amp charger takes around 8h to completely recharge 1 of my 2x 100ah battery plants (16h total), I'd expect the 25 amp charger would probably be able to do the same job in around 11h total. If you are a liveaboard and/or want to do extensive cruising to include anchoring or mooring, I'd suggest you look at a 48v charger/inverter instead, but expect to pay over $1000 on something like that, and definitely increase your battery banks by at least double my previously suggested 200 ah minimum. A charger that can deliver more amps will be more efficient when coupled with medium capacity gas or diesel generators. Instead of the cheap shaft coupler that I ended up using, I'd suggest using something more like this "Borg Warner coupling with Flexible insert" as it will reduce noise and vibration, for a modest additional cost. ( http://electricboatdesign.com/mechanical/coupling/ ) I believe that the gear reduction system I used has a 2:1 reduction, which may not be the most optimal for your (or my) boat. The belt in my system does wear over time. I have only had to replace mine once in 6m, but you should have the tools required to replace it onboard, as its most likely going to break while underway. The belts are pretty cheap, costing less then $50. I always carry at least 1 spare onboard. It's possible that this "Browning Gearbox by Emerson" or a water-cooled reduction may present a better long term solution ( http://electricboatdesign.com/mechanical/gearing/ ). A well tuned gear reduction, along with a modern prop would likely have a significant effect on your electric engine performance while motoring, sailing, and during regeneration. You definitely will want something to monitor your batteries/engine. The SEVCON Gen 4 controller has a CAN Bus connection, which can be used to monitor all this information, or the batteries can be monitored for just the state of change volts/amps information. I purchased a simple $20 battery state of change gauge along with some cheap amp/volt meters ($30) which are hooked into my A/B/All switch to show whats left on the battery plant(s) that I have currently selected. SEVCON sells a "clearview" display which you can purchase for $350 ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-clearview.html ). I'm currently trying to develop a modestly priced app (under $50) for apple iOS devices to emulate the same functionality of SEVCON's clearview display on a iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad. I already use iNavX for charting, and I'm hopeful that I can eventually find a modestly priced hardware solution (under $200) to broadcast the NMEA 2000/CAN Bus onto wifi, so that all the engine and navigation information can be made available to iOS devices. The CAN Bus signal can be compatible with NMEA 2000. Should someone be considering running CAN Bus and NMEA 2000 together, please reply for more important information regarding the pin outs, cable conversions, bus speeds, and voltage differences that you will want to be aware of between the two standards. Regarding performance, the speed vs distance is logarithmic. The faster you go, the more amps it will pull from the battery, and the quicker it will discharge the battery. I think that my system will currently pull up to approximately 150 amps max. At hull speed I can get about a half hour to hour from one of my two 100 ah banks before the controller will begin to automatically reduce the speed. I have been able to motor sail by putting the engine into a light load of maybe 2knots but get 4knots+ with the sails u[ by increasing the apparent wind. Each individual bank under such conditions can last 4 or more hours before the controller will automatically begin to reducing the speed. When the wind alone is ample to reach hull speed, you can put the engine into neutral, and the force of the water turning the prop will regenerate about 5amps back into the batteries. While I've never completely run out of power, I've certainly come close. When I finally arrived at Half Moon Bay after 24h at sea, thankfully I was able to get through the first breakwater and enter the outer harbor where boats are moored. However, my batteries were extremely low by now, and I didn't have enough power remaining to rev the engine high enough to overcome the opposing current at the second breakwater to reach the inner harbor where my assigned slip was. I resolved this by put the sails back up so I could reach enough speed to overcome the current, passed my slip, dropped the sails, then used the engine to help slow the boat down enough as I entered the assigned slip. I think it was around 9am when I pulled in, it took all day and night to recharge the batteries both literally and figuratively. If you are planning a long trip a 25amp 48v charger could be appropriate to use with a small mobile gas generator, which should cost $1000 or less. In hindsight, I should have either bought or rented a generator, as it took me around 24h to go from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay under unfavorable wind conditions, given that I was using the electric engine at a low speed constantly all morning and afternoon until I was finally able to put it in neutral once the wind picked up that evening. I'd tend to think that decent solar and/or wind generators providing 48v power could also help significantly extend the electric engine power capacity. Lastly should you decide to repower, you will need to consider what to do about your 12v power needs. My new engine runs off 48v, and doesn't have a 12v alternator. You could engineer a 12v alternator into the gear reduction system, tap one of the 12v batteries directly, or purchase a 48v to 12v step down power converter. I just ignored this issue during my transit from Monterey to Redwood City, CA and was lucky that my gamble didn't result in running out of 12v power for my instruments and navigation lights during the unanticipated additional 11h or so hours of night cruising that was needed between santa cruz and half moon bay. I have a separate maybe 100amp hour 12v battery bank, which I presently recharge off a separate 12v battery charger while docked. I'll probably purchase a $50, 10amp 48v to 13.5v step down converter and put it on a power switch so that I could use it recharge my 12v battery bank from my 48v. I could turn it on to cover up to 10amps of a 12v load. Any time more then 10 amps are needed, the difference would still be covered by the 12v battery bank, any time less then a 10amp is needed, the remainder would be delivered to recharge the 12v bank. As previously mentioned while sailing at hull speed, electric engine regeneration on my boat will provide around 5amps back to the 48v battery, which would be more then enough to cover the approximately 3.3 amps on the 48v side that a 10 amp 13.5v converter would pull. Mike --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Michael Wahlman" <mwahlman@...> wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer! >

David, Here's a poster of a Cal 29 repower from Electric Yachts. Nice looking system - pricey, however. Ken Akers Cal 29 390 From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, October 6, 2012 2:58:55 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats Michael, I, for one, would be interested in all the details, including what you might do differently the next time. I have been considering it as an option if I were to need to repower, and it's always better to do the research ahead of time. David Dobbs CAL29 411 From: Michael Wahlman <mw… [at] dspnet.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 4:59 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer!

David, Electric Yachts does have a nice turn-key system. I believe it is based upon most of the same hardware that I got from the thunderstruck kit with the additions I mentioned in my long email, less Electric Yacht's custom throttle, general polishings and brand labels. I think that I was able to reduce my costs by around half or more off their sticker price. Plus their labor costs and batteries would also have cost quite a bit more. I think I paid around 5k just for parts, including batteries and charger; whereas their kit alone is around that price, not including the batteries or charger. If you are willing to do most the installation work yourself or hire on a handyman (I hired another live-aboard, more mechanically experienced then I was) then you could save yourself a lot of money. Otherwise go with their established system, professional install, and a single warranty that probably covers everything. I think my total cost was around 7K including labor (old engine and gas tank removal, new engine/mount install, shaft connection, battery boxes, wiring, etc). You'd be sure to pay over 10k for that same install through Electric Yacht, although I'm sure it would look prettier and possibly include some service warranty. Mike --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Ken Akers <kendakers@...> wrote: > > David, > Here's a poster of a Cal 29 repower from Electric Yachts. Nice looking system - > pricey, however. > Ken Akers Cal 29 390 > > > > > ________________________________ > From: david dobbs <tmft567@...> > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sat, October 6, 2012 2:58:55 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats > > > Michael, > > I, for one, would be interested in all the details, including what you might do > differently the next time. I have been considering it as an option if I were to > need to repower, and it's always better to do the research ahead of time. > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > ________________________________ > From: Michael Wahlman <mwahlman@...> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 4:59 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats > > > > I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric > engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine > kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained > while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have > the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new > seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested > buyer: make an offer! >

This is a neat thread I have been watching. Yes, I did convert a 1976 San Juan 24 from outboard bracket to I/O Electric. It was on a dare and was kinda fun. My buddy had a golf cart rusting away in his yard, I said that would make a nice inboard, he dared me to do it, it was on. Three weeks and $250 later I had a 1976 San Juan that could still smack down almost any 6m yacht that came along and had an Inboard, which Bruce Kirby never, ever had in mind on those fine vessels. If the vessel was built with an I/O then an Electric Conversion can be done. My input is this, get one of those 'free' golf carts, a bit of thinking and a bit of tooling, and you can have an adequate turning prop for a displacement vessel. That was 25 years ago, but I still look back on those events and smile. And that is what it is really all about. JChia 18 Victoria (looking at other vessels)cause I like to have fun. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Michael Wahlman" <mwahlman@...> wrote: > > This reply is for those who wanted some more information on the conversion of my 1971 cal 33 from an atomic 4 to an electric engine. It will be long, have links, and be broken into a few sections. In short I did my conversion for approximately $5000 in parts, not including labor. > > First I'll write about the background of why I converted. I initially became interested in the prospect of purchasing a boat to live on while on my last assignment with the US Navy. At the time I was an activated reservist: Operations Specialist First Class / E6) while stationed in Monterey, CA. I was in the middle of a divorce, and didn't know how long I might be unemployed for, once my enlistment ended in September 2011 (divorced completed now, but I am still unemployed). I really liked the idea of having a relatively cheap rent, waterfront property, and a residence that could easily be moved to other job markets along the west coast. > > I purchased my 1971 Cal 33 in June 2011, and began living on it about a week later. Almost immediately, I became very concerned with the gas smells on the boat. I was afraid that I might either die from the fumes or from a potential explosion while sleeping. I had the boat yard look at it, and after repairing the fuel line from the deck fill to the gas tank, that crises seemed to be alleviated for a few months. However, my engine ceased up that winter, and when I had the engine inspected, I was told that one of the pistons was jammed and that it needed to be repaired from the bottom, so the engine would have to be removed from the boat and should probably be rebuilt. By then, I had been reading up on electric engines for awhile, and I didn't much like the idea of spending several grand fixing a 40 year old, obsolete engine. > > In February of this year, I bought an electric engine kit from thunderstruck motors at a cost of approximately $2000 ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-10.5kw.html ). That kit does not include batteries, charger, mount, gear reduction, engine shaft. shaft coupler, battery cables, or any gauges for engine/battery status information: (RMPs, temp, state of charge, charge remaining, amps pulled, etc). Overall, I really like the company, found the kit to be pretty fairly priced vs the competition. On a side note, after I completed my trip from Monterey CA to Redwood City CA at the end of Sept, I decided to drive up to their shop for a tour, as they are only about an hour north of San Francisco. Regarding this kit, I'd suggest you stay away from the default "TSM Fwd/Rev Slider Control Box" Throttle type option, I bought it and its really cheaply constructed. After I bought my kit, they began offering the Curtis ET-134 for an additional $63, which is their recommended throttle option. > > While thunderstruck does sell an approximately $600 mount/gear reduction, their solution seems flimsy and overpriced to me ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ts-gear-reduction.html ) Instead, my father purchased several parts off ebay and constructed a much stronger mount with a similar gear reduction system. He used this video for the design inspiration ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdEDZuvk7wE ). I'd have to look for the receipts to verify, but I think all of the mechanical parts ("industrial erector set" mounting hardware, timing belt, pulleys, engine shaft, shaft coupler, etc)) were procured for under $500 (not including labor). Another advantage of the mount we used over the thunderstruck model is that it provides a large area to mount the SEVCON Gen 4 engine controller, which also act as a heat sink. Should someone be interested in purchasing a mount like I have, I'm sure my father would be willing to build one for you at a reasonable cost. > > I procured 8x 12v 100ah AGM batteries from a friend that I went to college with, who is the marketing director for his uncle's battery company based in IL. They are set up as 2x 48v 100ah battery plants connected to the engine via an A/B/All switch. ( http://bigtimebattery.com/store/slaps12100.html ) Total cost for batteries including S/H (lots of weight!) was about $1500. I would suggest having at least 200ah total battery plant power, as a minimum, for anyone seriously considering a conversion. I initially only used a single 100ah plant, but added the second plant about a month later because I felt I was discharging the batteries more deeply then appropriate, just by entering/leaving the harbor before I could put up my sails, and had very limited reserve power should the wind die while out. If you can afford a larger capacity battery plant, by all means spend more money on batteries. Expect to pay maybe an additional $200 in battery cables. > > For the battery charger, I bought a 15amp 48v quick charger. (http://quickcharge.com/Select-a-charge%20ON%20BOARD.htm). I bought this model before I doubled my battery capacity, so I would instead suggest their 25amp 48v charger to anyone with a 200ah+ battery plant capacity. The 15 amp battery charger cost me about $350, whereas the 25 amp one costs around $470. its worth spending the extra $120 as those 10 additional amps will reduce the time it takes to recharge your batteries. When fully discharged, my 15amp charger takes around 8h to completely recharge 1 of my 2x 100ah battery plants (16h total), I'd expect the 25 amp charger would probably be able to do the same job in around 11h total. If you are a liveaboard and/or want to do extensive cruising to include anchoring or mooring, I'd suggest you look at a 48v charger/inverter instead, but expect to pay over $1000 on something like that, and definitely increase your battery banks by at least double my previously suggested 200 ah minimum. A charger that can deliver more amps will be more efficient when coupled with medium capacity gas or diesel generators. > > Instead of the cheap shaft coupler that I ended up using, I'd suggest using something more like this "Borg Warner coupling with Flexible insert" as it will reduce noise and vibration, for a modest additional cost. ( http://electricboatdesign.com/mechanical/coupling/ ) > > I believe that the gear reduction system I used has a 2:1 reduction, which may not be the most optimal for your (or my) boat. The belt in my system does wear over time. I have only had to replace mine once in 6m, but you should have the tools required to replace it onboard, as its most likely going to break while underway. The belts are pretty cheap, costing less then $50. I always carry at least 1 spare onboard. It's possible that this "Browning Gearbox by Emerson" or a water-cooled reduction may present a better long term solution ( http://electricboatdesign.com/mechanical/gearing/ ). A well tuned gear reduction, along with a modern prop would likely have a significant effect on your electric engine performance while motoring, sailing, and during regeneration. > > You definitely will want something to monitor your batteries/engine. The SEVCON Gen 4 controller has a CAN Bus connection, which can be used to monitor all this information, or the batteries can be monitored for just the state of change volts/amps information. I purchased a simple $20 battery state of change gauge along with some cheap amp/volt meters ($30) which are hooked into my A/B/All switch to show whats left on the battery plant(s) that I have currently selected. SEVCON sells a "clearview" display which you can purchase for $350 ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-clearview.html ). I'm currently trying to develop a modestly priced app (under $50) for apple iOS devices to emulate the same functionality of SEVCON's clearview display on a iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad. I already use iNavX for charting, and I'm hopeful that I can eventually find a modestly priced hardware solution (under $200) to broadcast the NMEA 2000/CAN Bus onto wifi, so that all the engine and navigation information can be made available to iOS devices. The CAN Bus signal can be compatible with NMEA 2000. Should someone be considering running CAN Bus and NMEA 2000 together, please reply for more important information regarding the pin outs, cable conversions, bus speeds, and voltage differences that you will want to be aware of between the two standards. > > Regarding performance, the speed vs distance is logarithmic. The faster you go, the more amps it will pull from the battery, and the quicker it will discharge the battery. I think that my system will currently pull up to approximately 150 amps max. At hull speed I can get about a half hour to hour from one of my two 100 ah banks before the controller will begin to automatically reduce the speed. I have been able to motor sail by putting the engine into a light load of maybe 2knots but get 4knots+ with the sails u[ by increasing the apparent wind. Each individual bank under such conditions can last 4 or more hours before the controller will automatically begin to reducing the speed. When the wind alone is ample to reach hull speed, you can put the engine into neutral, and the force of the water turning the prop will regenerate about 5amps back into the batteries. While I've never completely run out of power, I've certainly come close. When I finally arrived at Half Moon Bay after 24h at sea, thankfully I was able to get through the first breakwater and enter the outer harbor where boats are moored. However, my batteries were extremely low by now, and I didn't have enough power remaining to rev the engine high enough to overcome the opposing current at the second breakwater to reach the inner harbor where my assigned slip was. I resolved this by put the sails back up so I could reach enough speed to overcome the current, passed my slip, dropped the sails, then used the engine to help slow the boat down enough as I entered the assigned slip. I think it was around 9am when I pulled in, it took all day and night to recharge the batteries both literally and figuratively. > > If you are planning a long trip a 25amp 48v charger could be appropriate to use with a small mobile gas generator, which should cost $1000 or less. In hindsight, I should have either bought or rented a generator, as it took me around 24h to go from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay under unfavorable wind conditions, given that I was using the electric engine at a low speed constantly all morning and afternoon until I was finally able to put it in neutral once the wind picked up that evening. I'd tend to think that decent solar and/or wind generators providing 48v power could also help significantly extend the electric engine power capacity. > > Lastly should you decide to repower, you will need to consider what to do about your 12v power needs. My new engine runs off 48v, and doesn't have a 12v alternator. You could engineer a 12v alternator into the gear reduction system, tap one of the 12v batteries directly, or purchase a 48v to 12v step down power converter. I just ignored this issue during my transit from Monterey to Redwood City, CA and was lucky that my gamble didn't result in running out of 12v power for my instruments and navigation lights during the unanticipated additional 11h or so hours of night cruising that was needed between santa cruz and half moon bay. I have a separate maybe 100amp hour 12v battery bank, which I presently recharge off a separate 12v battery charger while docked. I'll probably purchase a $50, 10amp 48v to 13.5v step down converter and put it on a power switch so that I could use it recharge my 12v battery bank from my 48v. I could turn it on to cover up to 10amps of a 12v load. Any time more then 10 amps are needed, the difference would still be covered by the 12v battery bank, any time less then a 10amp is needed, the remainder would be delivered to recharge the 12v bank. As previously mentioned while sailing at hull speed, electric engine regeneration on my boat will provide around 5amps back to the 48v battery, which would be more then enough to cover the approximately 3.3 amps on the 48v side that a 10 amp 13.5v converter would pull. > > Mike > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Michael Wahlman" <mwahlman@> wrote: > > > > I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer! > > >

Fun. The San Juan 24s are great little boats -- fun to race. I like your project... Wilkie On Oct 11, 2012, at 4:39 AM, jlc_nwf <ro… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: This is a neat thread I have been watching. Yes, I did convert a 1976 San Juan 24 from outboard bracket to I/O Electric. It was on a dare and was kinda fun. My buddy had a golf cart rusting away in his yard, I said that would make a nice inboard, he dared me to do it, it was on. Three weeks and $250 later I had a 1976 San Juan that could still smack down almost any 6m yacht that came along and had an Inboard, which Bruce Kirby never, ever had in mind on those fine vessels. If the vessel was built with an I/O then an Electric Conversion can be done. My input is this, get one of those 'free' golf carts, a bit of thinking and a bit of tooling, and you can have an adequate turning prop for a displacement vessel. That was 25 years ago, but I still look back on those events and smile. And that is what it is really all about. JChia 18 Victoria (looking at other vessels)cause I like to have fun. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Michael Wahlman" <mwahlman@...> wrote: > > This reply is for those who wanted some more information on the conversion of my 1971 cal 33 from an atomic 4 to an electric engine. It will be long, have links, and be broken into a few sections. In short I did my conversion for approximately $5000 in parts, not including labor. > > First I'll write about the background of why I converted. I initially became interested in the prospect of purchasing a boat to live on while on my last assignment with the US Navy. At the time I was an activated reservist: Operations Specialist First Class / E6) while stationed in Monterey, CA. I was in the middle of a divorce, and didn't know how long I might be unemployed for, once my enlistment ended in September 2011 (divorced completed now, but I am still unemployed). I really liked the idea of having a relatively cheap rent, waterfront property, and a residence that could easily be moved to other job markets along the west coast. > > I purchased my 1971 Cal 33 in June 2011, and began living on it about a week later. Almost immediately, I became very concerned with the gas smells on the boat. I was afraid that I might either die from the fumes or from a potential explosion while sleeping. I had the boat yard look at it, and after repairing the fuel line from the deck fill to the gas tank, that crises seemed to be alleviated for a few months. However, my engine ceased up that winter, and when I had the engine inspected, I was told that one of the pistons was jammed and that it needed to be repaired from the bottom, so the engine would have to be removed from the boat and should probably be rebuilt. By then, I had been reading up on electric engines for awhile, and I didn't much like the idea of spending several grand fixing a 40 year old, obsolete engine. > > In February of this year, I bought an electric engine kit from thunderstruck motors at a cost of approximately $2000 ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-10.5kw.html ). That kit does not include batteries, charger, mount, gear reduction, engine shaft. shaft coupler, battery cables, or any gauges for engine/battery status information: (RMPs, temp, state of charge, charge remaining, amps pulled, etc). Overall, I really like the company, found the kit to be pretty fairly priced vs the competition. On a side note, after I completed my trip from Monterey CA to Redwood City CA at the end of Sept, I decided to drive up to their shop for a tour, as they are only about an hour north of San Francisco. Regarding this kit, I'd suggest you stay away from the default "TSM Fwd/Rev Slider Control Box" Throttle type option, I bought it and its really cheaply constructed. After I bought my kit, they began offering the Curtis ET-134 for an additional $63, which is their recommended throttle option. > > While thunderstruck does sell an approximately $600 mount/gear reduction, their solution seems flimsy and overpriced to me ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ts-gear-reduction.html ) Instead, my father purchased several parts off ebay and constructed a much stronger mount with a similar gear reduction system. He used this video for the design inspiration ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdEDZuvk7wE ). I'd have to look for the receipts to verify, but I think all of the mechanical parts ("industrial erector set" mounting hardware, timing belt, pulleys, engine shaft, shaft coupler, etc)) were procured for under $500 (not including labor). Another advantage of the mount we used over the thunderstruck model is that it provides a large area to mount the SEVCON Gen 4 engine controller, which also act as a heat sink. Should someone be interested in purchasing a mount like I have, I'm sure my father would be willing to build one for you at a reasonable cost. > > I procured 8x 12v 100ah AGM batteries from a friend that I went to college with, who is the marketing director for his uncle's battery company based in IL. They are set up as 2x 48v 100ah battery plants connected to the engine via an A/B/All switch. ( http://bigtimebattery.com/store/slaps12100.html ) Total cost for batteries including S/H (lots of weight!) was about $1500. I would suggest having at least 200ah total battery plant power, as a minimum, for anyone seriously considering a conversion. I initially only used a single 100ah plant, but added the second plant about a month later because I felt I was discharging the batteries more deeply then appropriate, just by entering/leaving the harbor before I could put up my sails, and had very limited reserve power should the wind die while out. If you can afford a larger capacity battery plant, by all means spend more money on batteries. Expect to pay maybe an additional $200 in battery cables. > > For the battery charger, I bought a 15amp 48v quick charger. (http://quickcharge.com/Select-a-charge%20ON%20BOARD.htm). I bought this model before I doubled my battery capacity, so I would instead suggest their 25amp 48v charger to anyone with a 200ah+ battery plant capacity. The 15 amp battery charger cost me about $350, whereas the 25 amp one costs around $470. its worth spending the extra $120 as those 10 additional amps will reduce the time it takes to recharge your batteries. When fully discharged, my 15amp charger takes around 8h to completely recharge 1 of my 2x 100ah battery plants (16h total), I'd expect the 25 amp charger would probably be able to do the same job in around 11h total. If you are a liveaboard and/or want to do extensive cruising to include anchoring or mooring, I'd suggest you look at a 48v charger/inverter instead, but expect to pay over $1000 on something like that, and definitely increase your battery banks by at least double my previously suggested 200 ah minimum. A charger that can deliver more amps will be more efficient when coupled with medium capacity gas or diesel generators. > > Instead of the cheap shaft coupler that I ended up using, I'd suggest using something more like this "Borg Warner coupling with Flexible insert" as it will reduce noise and vibration, for a modest additional cost. ( http://electricboatdesign.com/mechanical/coupling/ ) > > I believe that the gear reduction system I used has a 2:1 reduction, which may not be the most optimal for your (or my) boat. The belt in my system does wear over time. I have only had to replace mine once in 6m, but you should have the tools required to replace it onboard, as its most likely going to break while underway. The belts are pretty cheap, costing less then $50. I always carry at least 1 spare onboard. It's possible that this "Browning Gearbox by Emerson" or a water-cooled reduction may present a better long term solution ( http://electricboatdesign.com/mechanical/gearing/ ). A well tuned gear reduction, along with a modern prop would likely have a significant effect on your electric engine performance while motoring, sailing, and during regeneration. > > You definitely will want something to monitor your batteries/engine. The SEVCON Gen 4 controller has a CAN Bus connection, which can be used to monitor all this information, or the batteries can be monitored for just the state of change volts/amps information. I purchased a simple $20 battery state of change gauge along with some cheap amp/volt meters ($30) which are hooked into my A/B/All switch to show whats left on the battery plant(s) that I have currently selected. SEVCON sells a "clearview" display which you can purchase for $350 ( http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-clearview.html ). I'm currently trying to develop a modestly priced app (under $50) for apple iOS devices to emulate the same functionality of SEVCON's clearview display on a iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad. I already use iNavX for charting, and I'm hopeful that I can eventually find a modestly priced hardware solution (under $200) to broadcast the NMEA 2000/CAN Bus onto wifi, so that all the engine and navigation information can be made available to iOS devices. The CAN Bus signal can be compatible with NMEA 2000. Should someone be considering running CAN Bus and NMEA 2000 together, please reply for more important information regarding the pin outs, cable conversions, bus speeds, and voltage differences that you will want to be aware of between the two standards. > > Regarding performance, the speed vs distance is logarithmic. The faster you go, the more amps it will pull from the battery, and the quicker it will discharge the battery. I think that my system will currently pull up to approximately 150 amps max. At hull speed I can get about a half hour to hour from one of my two 100 ah banks before the controller will begin to automatically reduce the speed. I have been able to motor sail by putting the engine into a light load of maybe 2knots but get 4knots+ with the sails u[ by increasing the apparent wind. Each individual bank under such conditions can last 4 or more hours before the controller will automatically begin to reducing the speed. When the wind alone is ample to reach hull speed, you can put the engine into neutral, and the force of the water turning the prop will regenerate about 5amps back into the batteries. While I've never completely run out of power, I've certainly come close. When I finally arrived at Half Moon Bay after 24h at sea, thankfully I was able to get through the first breakwater and enter the outer harbor where boats are moored. However, my batteries were extremely low by now, and I didn't have enough power remaining to rev the engine high enough to overcome the opposing current at the second breakwater to reach the inner harbor where my assigned slip was. I resolved this by put the sails back up so I could reach enough speed to overcome the current, passed my slip, dropped the sails, then used the engine to help slow the boat down enough as I entered the assigned slip. I think it was around 9am when I pulled in, it took all day and night to recharge the batteries both literally and figuratively. > > If you are planning a long trip a 25amp 48v charger could be appropriate to use with a small mobile gas generator, which should cost $1000 or less. In hindsight, I should have either bought or rented a generator, as it took me around 24h to go from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay under unfavorable wind conditions, given that I was using the electric engine at a low speed constantly all morning and afternoon until I was finally able to put it in neutral once the wind picked up that evening. I'd tend to think that decent solar and/or wind generators providing 48v power could also help significantly extend the electric engine power capacity. > > Lastly should you decide to repower, you will need to consider what to do about your 12v power needs. My new engine runs off 48v, and doesn't have a 12v alternator. You could engineer a 12v alternator into the gear reduction system, tap one of the 12v batteries directly, or purchase a 48v to 12v step down power converter. I just ignored this issue during my transit from Monterey to Redwood City, CA and was lucky that my gamble didn't result in running out of 12v power for my instruments and navigation lights during the unanticipated additional 11h or so hours of night cruising that was needed between santa cruz and half moon bay. I have a separate maybe 100amp hour 12v battery bank, which I presently recharge off a separate 12v battery charger while docked. I'll probably purchase a $50, 10amp 48v to 13.5v step down converter and put it on a power switch so that I could use it recharge my 12v battery bank from my 48v. I could turn it on to cover up to 10amps of a 12v load. Any time more then 10 amps are needed, the difference would still be covered by the 12v battery bank, any time less then a 10amp is needed, the remainder would be delivered to recharge the 12v bank. As previously mentioned while sailing at hull speed, electric engine regeneration on my boat will provide around 5amps back to the 48v battery, which would be more then enough to cover the approximately 3.3 amps on the 48v side that a 10 amp 13.5v converter would pull. > > Mike > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Michael Wahlman" <mwahlman@> wrote: >> >> I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested buyer: make an offer! >> > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Mike, Thanks very much for sharing details of your project. If you have any pics you could post that would be great. Ken --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Michael Wahlman" <mwahlman@...> wrote: > > David, > > Electric Yachts does have a nice turn-key system. I believe it is based upon most of the same hardware that I got from the thunderstruck kit with the additions I mentioned in my long email, less Electric Yacht's custom throttle, general polishings and brand labels. I think that I was able to reduce my costs by around half or more off their sticker price. Plus their labor costs and batteries would also have cost quite a bit more. I think I paid around 5k just for parts, including batteries and charger; whereas their kit alone is around that price, not including the batteries or charger. > > If you are willing to do most the installation work yourself or hire on a handyman (I hired another live-aboard, more mechanically experienced then I was) then you could save yourself a lot of money. Otherwise go with their established system, professional install, and a single warranty that probably covers everything. I think my total cost was around 7K including labor (old engine and gas tank removal, new engine/mount install, shaft connection, battery boxes, wiring, etc). You'd be sure to pay over 10k for that same install through Electric Yacht, although I'm sure it would look prettier and possibly include some service warranty. > > Mike > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Ken Akers <kendakers@> wrote: > > > > David, > > Here's a poster of a Cal 29 repower from Electric Yachts. Nice looking system - > > pricey, however. > > Ken Akers Cal 29 390 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: david dobbs <tmft567@> > > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sat, October 6, 2012 2:58:55 PM > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats > > > > > > Michael, > > > > I, for one, would be interested in all the details, including what you might do > > differently the next time. I have been considering it as an option if I were to > > need to repower, and it's always better to do the research ahead of time. > > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Michael Wahlman <mwahlman@> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 4:59 AM > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] electric sailboats > > > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone else has converted their Cal over to an electric > > engine? I'd be happy to talk about my 6m of experience with the electric engine > > kit that has replaced the Atomic 4 in my 1971 Cal 33, and the experience gained > > while relocating my boat from Monterey to Redwood City, CA. I also still have > > the majority of my old Atomic 4 (it needs 1/4 new pistons and new > > seals/reasembly) that I'd be happy to sell complete or parts to an interested > > buyer: make an offer! > > >