Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout

Speaking of hauling-out and removing a rudder, does anyone know if the rudder on a Cal 39 will have room to drop out when the boat is on standard jack stands with like a 9" block under the keel?

Measure the distance from the top of your rudder to th cockpit floor. Add 4-5 inches for a tiller if you have one. Quick and dirty caculation of your rudder post. Lets call that measure A. Now measurw the lenght of the rudder that is exposed. Lets call that B. Now measure the clearance between the lowest point of the rudder and the ground. Lets call that C. So C has to be greater then A+B. If you cant get enough clearance dig a whole. Cheaper then a travel lift unless of course your on asphalt. They dont like holes in those yards....) Ch Mark <mi… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >Speaking of hauling-out and removing a rudder, does anyone know if the >rudder on a Cal 39 will have room to drop out when the boat is on >standard jack stands with like a 9" block under the keel? > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > --

Thanks, Chris. That's helpful but the boat is in the water now and when it comes out it goes straight to a paved lot and put up on jack stands. If the rudder won't drop out when on the jack stands I'll need to ask the yard to do it when the boat is in the travel lift. I'm mainly interested in hearing from other Cal 39 owners who have actually done this in the past.

The answer is no. The yard will need to remove it while in the slings. In the spring the YC yard manager put me in the slings late on Saturday so I could re-install the rudder on Sunday. If you can't arrange this the yard will need to re-install it. No alternative. When I had the rudder out I took it home, cut out the cancerous foam (very little), then stored it in the utility room of the house (very warm & dry) for a few months. Then I replaced the foam (bedded in thickened epoxy) and wrapped the entire rudder in 2 layers of glass. I then cut a trench type groove around the rudder post where it goes into the rudder and filled it with 5200. Cal39s have a reputation for failing rudders. Regards, Wayne s/v Elusive 1982 Cal39 Mk 3 From: Mark <mi… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout Speaking of hauling-out and removing a rudder, does anyone know if the rudder on a Cal 39 will have room to drop out when the boat is on standard jack stands with like a 9" block under the keel?

If it an a travel lift its easy. Im sure other 39 owners will respond. IMHO its easiest to done while in the sling. That way you can take all the measures you need and pull it at the same time. Ch Mark Miller <mi… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >Thanks, Chris. That's helpful but the boat is in the water now and when >it comes out it goes straight to a paved lot and put up on jack stands. >If the rudder won't drop out when on the jack stands I'll need to ask >the yard to do it when the boat is in the travel lift. I'm mainly >interested in hearing from other Cal 39 owners who have actually done >this in the past. > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > --

I like to learn stuff. Why would you use 5200 on the rudder post? Best regards Ch Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >The answer is no. The yard will need to remove it while in the slings. > In the spring the YC yard manager put me in the slings late on >Saturday so I could re-install the rudder on Sunday. If you can't >arrange this the yard will need to re-install it. No alternative. > >When I had the rudder out I took it home, cut out the cancerous foam >(very little), then stored it in the utility room of the house (very >warm & dry) for a few months. Then I replaced the foam (bedded in >thickened epoxy) and wrapped the entire rudder in 2 layers of glass. I >then cut a trench type groove around the rudder post where it goes into >the rudder and filled it with 5200. > >Cal39s have a reputation for failing rudders. > >Regards, >Wayne >s/v Elusive >1982 Cal39 Mk 3 > > >________________________________ > From: Mark <mi… [at] yahoo.com> >To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:47 AM >Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout > > > >Speaking of hauling-out and removing a rudder, does anyone know if the >rudder on a Cal 39 will have room to drop out when the boat is on >standard jack stands with like a 9" block under the keel? > > --

I have had to replace the sealed bearings on the Jabsco water pump bracket a couple of times because they are freezing up. Is there a better way to go to seal the pump shaft. I am afraid this time when I try to remove the old pressed in bearings the bracket is going to fail on me. Are there any options for replacing either the water pump with an electric or a modify the bracket design to a better bearing and seal configuration..... Does anyone have any ideas? Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7532 (20120930) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Had a yard guy tell me the same thing, Chris. The 5200 is adhesive (and how) as well as caulk. It sticks aggressively to both the metal and the glas. Second item of advice: For the inside of the rudder post, water can get in there with no way to get it out. (Well, you could turn the boat over and shake it.) Pour some epoxy in there, fill it with closed cell foam, and then seal it at the top with epoxy (just below the cross bolt. Cheers Charlie. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris H Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:34 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout - Cal39 I like to learn stuff. Why would you use 5200 on the rudder post? Best regards Ch Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: The answer is no. The yard will need to remove it while in the slings. In the spring the YC yard manager put me in the slings late on Saturday so I could re-install the rudder on Sunday. If you can't arrange this the yard will need to re-install it. No alternative. When I had the rudder out I took it home, cut out the cancerous foam (very little), then stored it in the utility room of the house (very warm & dry) for a few months. Then I replaced the foam (bedded in thickened epoxy) and wrapped the entire rudder in 2 layers of glass. I then cut a trench type groove around the rudder post where it goes into the rudder and filled it with 5200. Cal39s have a reputation for failing rudders. Regards, Wayne s/v Elusive 1982 Cal39 Mk 3 From: Mark <mi… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout Speaking of hauling-out and removing a rudder, does anyone know if the rudder on a Cal 39 will have room to drop out when the boat is on standard jack stands with like a 9" block under the keel? --

OK...I get it. We are talking about the tube extension that fits into the rudder....I was puzzled as I guess I read the post wrong or misunderstood it as I took it as 5200 on the shaft above the rudder and was scratching my head...:) Thanks Charlie. /ch On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 5:19 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > > > Had a yard guy tell me the same thing, Chris. The 5200 is adhesive (and > how) as well as caulk. It sticks aggressively to both the metal and the > glas.**** > > ** ** > > Second item of advice: For the inside of the rudder post, water can get > in there with no way to get it out. (Well, you could turn the boat over > and shake it.) Pour some epoxy in there, fill it with closed cell foam, > and then seal it at the top with epoxy (just below the cross bolt.**** > > ** ** > > Cheers**** > > Charlie.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Chris H > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:34 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout - Cal39**** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > I like to learn stuff. Why would you use 5200 on the rudder post? > > Best regards > > Ch**** > > Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote:**** > > The answer is no. The yard will need to remove it while in the slings. > In the spring the YC yard manager put me in the slings late on Saturday so > I could re-install the rudder on Sunday. If you can't arrange this the > yard will need to re-install it. No alternative.**** > > ** ** > > When I had the rudder out I took it home, cut out the cancerous foam (very > little), then stored it in the utility room of the house (very warm & dry) > for a few months. Then I replaced the foam (bedded in thickened epoxy) and > wrapped the entire rudder in 2 layers of glass. I then cut a trench type > groove around the rudder post where it goes into the rudder and filled it > with 5200.**** > > ** ** > > Cal39s have a reputation for failing rudders.**** > > ** ** > > Regards,**** > > Wayne**** > > s/v Elusive**** > > 1982 Cal39 Mk 3**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Mark <mi… [at] yahoo.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2012 6:47 AM > *Subject:* Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout**** > > ** ** > > **** > > Speaking of hauling-out and removing a rudder, does anyone know if the > rudder on a Cal 39 will have room to drop out when the boat is on standard > jack stands with like a 9" block under the keel?**** > > ** ** > > > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.**** > > > > > **** > > **** > > > > -- /ch

I recall being told 5200 is not flexible enough and its bond to stainless is not as reliable as other stuff. It seems this topic came up several years ago. What was recommended then? Sikaflex? MarineTex? Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 09:19:21 +0000 Subject: RE: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout - Cal39 Had a yard guy tell me the same thing, Chris. The 5200 is adhesive (and how) as well as caulk. It sticks aggressively to both the metal and the glas. Second item of advice: For the inside of the rudder post, water can get in there with no way to get it out. (Well, you could turn the boat over and shake it.) Pour some epoxy in there, fill it with closed cell foam, and then seal it at the top with epoxy (just below the cross bolt. Cheers Charlie. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris H Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:34 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout - Cal39 I like to learn stuff. Why would you use 5200 on the rudder post? Best regards Ch Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: The answer is no. The yard will need to remove it while in the slings. In the spring the YC yard manager put me in the slings late on Saturday so I could re-install the rudder on Sunday. If you can't arrange this the yard will need to re-install it. No alternative. When I had the rudder out I took it home, cut out the cancerous foam (very little), then stored it in the utility room of the house (very warm & dry) for a few months. Then I replaced the foam (bedded in thickened epoxy) and wrapped the entire rudder in 2 layers of glass. I then cut a trench type groove around the rudder post where it goes into the rudder and filled it with 5200. Cal39s have a reputation for failing rudders. Regards, Wayne s/v Elusive 1982 Cal39 Mk 3 From: Mark <mi… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout Speaking of hauling-out and removing a rudder, does anyone know if the rudder on a Cal 39 will have room to drop out when the boat is on standard jack stands with like a 9" block under the keel? --

If you seal up the rudder post you will not be able to use the emergency tiller. On Oct 1, 2012, at 5:19 AM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > Had a yard guy tell me the same thing, Chris. The 5200 is adhesive (and how) as well as caulk. It sticks aggressively to both the metal and the glas. > > > > Second item of advice: For the inside of the rudder post, water can get in there with no way to get it out. (Well, you could turn the boat over and shake it.) Pour some epoxy in there, fill it with closed cell foam, and then seal it at the top with epoxy (just below the cross bolt. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie. > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris H > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:34 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout - Cal39 > > > > > > > > I like to learn stuff. Why would you use 5200 on the rudder post? > > Best regards > > Ch > > Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > The answer is no. The yard will need to remove it while in the slings. In the spring the YC yard manager put me in the slings late on Saturday so I could re-install the rudder on Sunday. If you can't arrange this the yard will need to re-install it. No alternative. > > > > When I had the rudder out I took it home, cut out the cancerous foam (very little), then stored it in the utility room of the house (very warm & dry) for a few months. Then I replaced the foam (bedded in thickened epoxy) and wrapped the entire rudder in 2 layers of glass. I then cut a trench type groove around the rudder post where it goes into the rudder and filled it with 5200. > > > > Cal39s have a reputation for failing rudders. > > > > Regards, > > Wayne > > s/v Elusive > > 1982 Cal39 Mk 3 > > > > From: Mark <mi… [at] yahoo.com> > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:47 AM > Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] haulout > > > > > > Speaking of hauling-out and removing a rudder, does anyone know if the rudder on a Cal 39 will have room to drop out when the boat is on standard jack stands with like a 9" block under the keel? > > > > > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > > > > > >

On 10/1/2012 5:19 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > Second item of advice: For the inside of the rudder post, water can > get in there with no way to get it out. (Well, you could turn the > boat over and shake it.) Pour some epoxy in there, fill it with > closed cell foam, and then seal it at the top with epoxy (just below > the cross bolt. > I'm not sure about the amount of metal involved that may serve as a heat sink, but be very careful about large quantities if epoxy in a confined space. When epoxy cures, it's an exothermic reaction of some kind--it gives off heat. When you have a lot of epoxy that's not spread out as it would be for laminating, it can get really hot. Many years ago, I used epoxy to fill a long 3/4" drilled hole in a wood mast. Pretty soon it was bubbling and smoking. Oh. Lesson learned. Maybe a stainless rudder post makes a good enough heat sink to avoid this, but then part of it is buried in foam and a glass fiber skin, so maybe not. I think I'd be inclined to lean heavily on the filler and go really light on the epoxy. Chris Campbell > >

Mine seized up on me earlier this summer. It now sits in pieces on my workbench. Hoping to find bearings and seals for it. The workaround for me was to install an electric. So far it's working better than the original. Don Trepanier 1974 CAL 2-29 Cayuga Lake, NY On 9/30/2012 8:35 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > >  > > I have had to replace the sealed bearings on the Jabsco water pump > bracket a couple of times because they are freezing up. Is there a > better way to go to seal the pump shaft. I am afraid this time when I > try to remove the old pressed in bearings the bracket is going to fail > on me. > Are there any options for replacing either the water pump with an > electric or a modify the bracket design to a better bearing and seal > configuration..... > Does anyone have any ideas? > Mark > Cal 2-29 > San Pedro > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 7532 (20120930) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com >

Don, Did you replace the pump and adjustment bracket? I may go with an electric, can you give me a model number of the replacement? Thanks for your feedback. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Trepanier To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Farymann A30 water pump adjustment bracket Mine seized up on me earlier this summer. It now sits in pieces on my workbench. Hoping to find bearings and seals for it. The workaround for me was to install an electric. So far it's working better than the original. Don Trepanier 1974 CAL 2-29 Cayuga Lake, NY On 9/30/2012 8:35 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote:  I have had to replace the sealed bearings on the Jabsco water pump bracket a couple of times because they are freezing up. Is there a better way to go to seal the pump shaft. I am afraid this time when I try to remove the old pressed in bearings the bracket is going to fail on me. Are there any options for replacing either the water pump with an electric or a modify the bracket design to a better bearing and seal configuration..... Does anyone have any ideas? Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7532 (20120930) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7536 (20121001) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7536 (20121001) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Mark, The pump is obsolete, and I was unable to find parts. A new pump (expensive) would have required a new bracket, adding to the cost. Stranded up the lake @ midnight with no wind or engine, I came up with the idea of using my fresh water electric pump, and it worked great. Had to motor 4 hrs home. Spoke w Joe @ Sound Marine Diesel, and he agreed that the electric should work. The one I put in has a flow rate of 3.5gpm. These are available @ West Marine. Good Luck Don Trepanier 1974 CAL 2-29 Cayuga Lake, NY On 10/1/2012 11:49 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > >  > > Don, > Did you replace the pump and adjustment bracket? > I may go with an electric, can you give me a model number of the > replacement? > Thanks for your feedback. > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Donald Trepanier <mailto:dt… [at] twcny.rr.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Monday, October 01, 2012 6:40 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Farymann A30 water pump adjustment bracket > > Mine seized up on me earlier this summer. It now sits in pieces on > my workbench. Hoping to find bearings and seals for it. > > The workaround for me was to install an electric. So far it's > working better than the original. > > Don Trepanier > 1974 CAL 2-29 > Cayuga Lake, NY > > > On 9/30/2012 8:35 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: >> >>  >> >> I have had to replace the sealed bearings on the Jabsco water >> pump bracket a couple of times because they are freezing up. Is >> there a better way to go to seal the pump shaft. I am afraid this >> time when I try to remove the old pressed in bearings the bracket >> is going to fail on me. >> Are there any options for replacing either the water pump with an >> electric or a modify the bracket design to a better bearing and >> seal configuration..... >> Does anyone have any ideas? >> Mark >> Cal 2-29 >> San Pedro >>

Don, I will look into the electric as an option. Thanks for the details. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Trepanier To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:49 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Farymann A30 water pump adjustment bracket Mark, The pump is obsolete, and I was unable to find parts. A new pump (expensive) would have required a new bracket, adding to the cost. Stranded up the lake @ midnight with no wind or engine, I came up with the idea of using my fresh water electric pump, and it worked great. Had to motor 4 hrs home. Spoke w Joe @ Sound Marine Diesel, and he agreed that the electric should work. The one I put in has a flow rate of 3.5gpm. These are available @ West Marine. Good Luck Don Trepanier 1974 CAL 2-29 Cayuga Lake, NY On 10/1/2012 11:49 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote:  Don, Did you replace the pump and adjustment bracket? I may go with an electric, can you give me a model number of the replacement? Thanks for your feedback. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Trepanier To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Farymann A30 water pump adjustment bracket Mine seized up on me earlier this summer. It now sits in pieces on my workbench. Hoping to find bearings and seals for it. The workaround for me was to install an electric. So far it's working better than the original. Don Trepanier 1974 CAL 2-29 Cayuga Lake, NY On 9/30/2012 8:35 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote:  I have had to replace the sealed bearings on the Jabsco water pump bracket a couple of times because they are freezing up. Is there a better way to go to seal the pump shaft. I am afraid this time when I try to remove the old pressed in bearings the bracket is going to fail on me. Are there any options for replacing either the water pump with an electric or a modify the bracket design to a better bearing and seal configuration..... Does anyone have any ideas? Mark Cal 2-29 San Pedro __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7536 (20121001) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7536 (20121001) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Don and Mark, I've successfully rebuilt my pump using two 6001-Z bearings (yes pressed onto the shaft and then into the bracket), and two TCM 050992TC seals, pressed into the pump body solid side out. I've repowered my 2-29 with a Universal M-18, and am selling the pump on the Portland, OR, craigslist. Also two good starters, if you're interested. Curt Yoder Cal 2-29 "Shearwater" Warrenton, OR --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Mark Alan Stahnke \(MAS Consulting\)" <masconsult@...> wrote: > > Don, > I will look into the electric as an option. > Thanks for the details. > Mark > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Trepanier > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Farymann A30 water pump adjustment bracket > > > > > Mark, > > The pump is obsolete, and I was unable to find parts. A new pump (expensive) would have required a new bracket, adding to the cost. > > Stranded up the lake @ midnight with no wind or engine, I came up with the idea of using my fresh water electric pump, and it worked great. Had to motor 4 hrs home. > > Spoke w Joe @ Sound Marine Diesel, and he agreed that the electric should work. The one I put in has a flow rate of 3.5gpm. These are available @ West Marine. > > Good Luck > > Don Trepanier > 1974 CAL 2-29 > Cayuga Lake, NY > > > On 10/1/2012 11:49 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > > >  > > Don, > Did you replace the pump and adjustment bracket? > I may go with an electric, can you give me a model number of the replacement? > Thanks for your feedback. > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Trepanier > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 6:40 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Farymann A30 water pump adjustment bracket > > > > > Mine seized up on me earlier this summer. It now sits in pieces on my workbench. Hoping to find bearings and seals for it. > > The workaround for me was to install an electric. So far it's working better than the original. > > Don Trepanier > 1974 CAL 2-29 > Cayuga Lake, NY > > > On 9/30/2012 8:35 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > > >  > > I have had to replace the sealed bearings on the Jabsco water pump bracket a couple of times because they are freezing up. Is there a better way to go to seal the pump shaft. I am afraid this time when I try to remove the old pressed in bearings the bracket is going to fail on me. > > Are there any options for replacing either the water pump with an electric or a modify the bracket design to a better bearing and seal configuration..... > > Does anyone have any ideas? > > Mark > Cal 2-29 > San Pedro > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7536 (20121001) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7536 (20121001) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com >